Domino.1359 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > @"Virdo.1540" said: > > > @"jsp.6912" said: > > > > @"jsp.6912" said: > > > > > @"Virdo.1540" said: > > > > > > @"jsp.6912" said: > > > > > > > @"Virdo.1540" said: > > > > > > > Not really op. Its one of the easiest classes to counter. > > > > > > > > > > > > tell me what class counter a rev with the build of the mota final (mace shield staff) > > > > > > > > > > other revs, power thieves, necros, power spellbreakers, mesmers, condi holos.... its really easy. Just think about what could be possible counters > > > > > > > > in silver tier maybe, seriously this guy really think his list can kill this kind of rev > > > > > > > @"Virdo.1540" said: > > > > > @"jsp.6912" said: > > > > > > @"Virdo.1540" said: > > > > > > > @"jsp.6912" said: > > > > > > > > @"Virdo.1540" said: > > > > > > > > Not really op. Its one of the easiest classes to counter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tell me what class counter a rev with the build of the mota final (mace shield staff) > > > > > > > > > > > > other revs, power thieves, necros, power spellbreakers, mesmers, condi holos.... its really easy. Just think about what could be possible counters > > > > > > > > > > in silver tier maybe > > > > > > > > nope. Always been hardcore rev counters. In Plat, legy and even wvw > > > > > > yeah sure lol > > > > > > this guy really said warrior beat this kind of rev seriously > > > > > > i hope he is na player > > > > Yes warrior can have enough cleansing ,boonrip and raw power. More than enough to handle any rev without problems. > > If u arent able to win with warrior, its your problem. > > > > No, Eu. > > Not true at all. Unless war traits and equips every utility for cleansing he won't have a hope of keeping up with the constant condi pressure and will have zero kill potential. I fought a condi flamethrower engi last night on war running zerk and rune of resistance , shake it off and brawlers recovery and the fight lasted almost 2 mins. He literally stood there spamming his auto like a bot putting constant burns on me. Throughout the fight he shrugged off 4 attempts at bullscharge as if what's hard cc. He ate at least 5 gs f1's and multiple FC's as he wasn't skillful enough to avoid any of them or wasn't trying to and in the end I had to disengage my cleanses couldnt keep up and he shrugged off all my bursts and damage like nothing yet his burns dropped my hp so kitten fast. The game state right now is total trash and the current bleeding population speaks for itself, the current bunker condi $hit needs to be dealt with or this games pvp dead by 2021 guaranteed. Ok yeah that particular engi build is entirely ridiculous. You get constant uptime of stability with a tank build AND condi pressure (not strong condi pressure I have to admit but constant). When I see folks running it, they literally just stand there with FT and no attempts to dodge. They don't need to. It's not meta, but represents where this current pvp environment is in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistsim.2748 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 > @"Eugchriss.2046" said: > Since none of them explicitly say what exactly is op, what should be nerfed and how...it's going to take some time. > How do you want the devs to balance things when you, then complainers, don't even know yourself what is unbalanced? the stats speak the truth. Look at how many revs in the top 50 last season. almost every match in plat is 2 revs or 2 necros. not understanding that Malyx and Shiro need shaving is either pure ignorance, or blatant bias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domino.1359 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 > @"Virdo.1540" said: > > @"jsp.6912" said: > > > @"Virdo.1540" said: > > > Not really op. Its one of the easiest classes to counter. > > > > tell me what class counter a rev with the build of the mota final (mace shield staff) > > other revs, power thieves, necros, power spellbreakers, mesmers, condi holos.... its really easy. Just think about what could be possible counters power spellbreakers, and condi holos cannot go up against the current rev builds. condi holos don't have enough condi cleanse to clear. it's in short supply. Or you need to short yourself and take HGH with a full skillset of potions. same with spellbreakers. you'll limit yourself severely to cleanse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virdo.1540 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 > @"Domino.1359" said: > > @"Virdo.1540" said: > > > @"jsp.6912" said: > > > > @"Virdo.1540" said: > > > > Not really op. Its one of the easiest classes to counter. > > > > > > tell me what class counter a rev with the build of the mota final (mace shield staff) > > > > other revs, power thieves, necros, power spellbreakers, mesmers, condi holos.... its really easy. Just think about what could be possible counters > > power spellbreakers, and condi holos cannot go up against the current rev builds. condi holos don't have enough condi cleanse to clear. it's in short supply. Or you need to short yourself and take HGH with a full skillset of potions. same with spellbreakers. you'll limit yourself severely to cleanse. power SBs can permastun them, reflect condis and have big resistance uptime with big heals&cleanses. And holos can have broken resistance uptime too. Mallyx' boonrip cant do anything about that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 > @"Domino.1359" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > @"Virdo.1540" said: > > > > @"jsp.6912" said: > > > > > @"jsp.6912" said: > > > > > > @"Virdo.1540" said: > > > > > > > @"jsp.6912" said: > > > > > > > > @"Virdo.1540" said: > > > > > > > > Not really op. Its one of the easiest classes to counter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tell me what class counter a rev with the build of the mota final (mace shield staff) > > > > > > > > > > > > other revs, power thieves, necros, power spellbreakers, mesmers, condi holos.... its really easy. Just think about what could be possible counters > > > > > > > > > > in silver tier maybe, seriously this guy really think his list can kill this kind of rev > > > > > > > > > @"Virdo.1540" said: > > > > > > @"jsp.6912" said: > > > > > > > @"Virdo.1540" said: > > > > > > > > @"jsp.6912" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Virdo.1540" said: > > > > > > > > > Not really op. Its one of the easiest classes to counter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tell me what class counter a rev with the build of the mota final (mace shield staff) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > other revs, power thieves, necros, power spellbreakers, mesmers, condi holos.... its really easy. Just think about what could be possible counters > > > > > > > > > > > > in silver tier maybe > > > > > > > > > > nope. Always been hardcore rev counters. In Plat, legy and even wvw > > > > > > > > yeah sure lol > > > > > > > > this guy really said warrior beat this kind of rev seriously > > > > > > > > i hope he is na player > > > > > > Yes warrior can have enough cleansing ,boonrip and raw power. More than enough to handle any rev without problems. > > > If u arent able to win with warrior, its your problem. > > > > > > No, Eu. > > > > Not true at all. Unless war traits and equips every utility for cleansing he won't have a hope of keeping up with the constant condi pressure and will have zero kill potential. I fought a condi flamethrower engi last night on war running zerk and rune of resistance , shake it off and brawlers recovery and the fight lasted almost 2 mins. He literally stood there spamming his auto like a bot putting constant burns on me. Throughout the fight he shrugged off 4 attempts at bullscharge as if what's hard cc. He ate at least 5 gs f1's and multiple FC's as he wasn't skillful enough to avoid any of them or wasn't trying to and in the end I had to disengage my cleanses couldnt keep up and he shrugged off all my bursts and damage like nothing yet his burns dropped my hp so kitten fast. The game state right now is total trash and the current bleeding population speaks for itself, the current bunker condi $hit needs to be dealt with or this games pvp dead by 2021 guaranteed. > > Ok yeah that particular engi build is entirely ridiculous. You get constant uptime of stability with a tank build AND condi pressure (not strong condi pressure I have to admit but constant). When I see folks running it, they literally just stand there with FT and no attempts to dodge. They don't need to. It's not meta, but represents where this current pvp environment is in. Exactly, there's builds that could dummy it for sure but for it to be so effective while requiring zero effort against some classes that are out playing it is exactly what gw2 is turning into and why people are leaving. If the engi didn't basically have perma stab or close to it and timed his stab to avoid my cc attempts than that's on me and so is missing my gs f1's and FC's due to him evading and such but the fact he just stood there spamming fthrower auto's while continually eating my bursts over and over just re-sustaining is absurdly unbalanced, not to mention how fast the burn stacks were stacking and being reapplied. Only reason I could fight it as long as I could was due to skakel's it off x2, brawlers recov and resistance on elite from rune. I run sig of rage so can pip resistance at ok intervals but still not enough. Unless ur running a tanky condi build ur gonna hate this meta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 > @"mistsim.2748" said: > > @"Eugchriss.2046" said: > > Since none of them explicitly say what exactly is op, what should be nerfed and how...it's going to take some time. > > How do you want the devs to balance things when you, then complainers, don't even know yourself what is unbalanced? > > the stats speak the truth. Look at how many revs in the top 50 last season. almost every match in plat is 2 revs or 2 necros. not understanding that Malyx and Shiro need shaving is either pure ignorance, or blatant bias. Of course condi rev needs shaving, all classes that stack condis continually do cuz most condi types are broken right now with the ease of re-aplication. U add malyx ability to throw those condis back at opponents while have access to resistance that it does is a recipe for a broken build. These issues would have been foreseen by competent devs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > @"mistsim.2748" said: > > > @"Eugchriss.2046" said: > > > Since none of them explicitly say what exactly is op, what should be nerfed and how...it's going to take some time. > > > How do you want the devs to balance things when you, then complainers, don't even know yourself what is unbalanced? > > > > the stats speak the truth. Look at how many revs in the top 50 last season. almost every match in plat is 2 revs or 2 necros. not understanding that Malyx and Shiro need shaving is either pure ignorance, or blatant bias. > > Of course condi rev needs shaving, all classes that stack condis continually do cuz most condi types are broken right now with the ease of re-aplication. U add malyx ability to throw those condis back at opponents while have access to resistance that it does is a recipe for a broken build. These issues would have been foreseen by competent devs. you are the classical condi hater. condi class op -> nerf all codni power class op -> nerf that specific build and nothing else :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > @"mistsim.2748" said: > > > > @"Eugchriss.2046" said: > > > > Since none of them explicitly say what exactly is op, what should be nerfed and how...it's going to take some time. > > > > How do you want the devs to balance things when you, then complainers, don't even know yourself what is unbalanced? > > > > > > the stats speak the truth. Look at how many revs in the top 50 last season. almost every match in plat is 2 revs or 2 necros. not understanding that Malyx and Shiro need shaving is either pure ignorance, or blatant bias. > > > > Of course condi rev needs shaving, all classes that stack condis continually do cuz most condi types are broken right now with the ease of re-aplication. U add malyx ability to throw those condis back at opponents while have access to resistance that it does is a recipe for a broken build. These issues would have been foreseen by competent devs. > > you are the classical condi hater. > condi class op -> nerf all codni > power class op -> nerf that specific build and nothing else :D Condi thief- needs shaves Condi revs - needs shaves Burn in general does to much damage per tic for how often and easy re-aplication is. It's not about nerfing ALL condi builds at all and whenever if stated nerfing burn I've said classes like guard should get compensated in other way to remain viable. Right now what classes are meta? How many are condi? Yeah.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistsim.2748 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 > @"Domino.1359" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > @"Virdo.1540" said: > > > > @"jsp.6912" said: > > > > > @"jsp.6912" said: > > > > > > @"Virdo.1540" said: > > > > > > > @"jsp.6912" said: > > > > > > > > @"Virdo.1540" said: > > > > > > > > Not really op. Its one of the easiest classes to counter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tell me what class counter a rev with the build of the mota final (mace shield staff) > > > > > > > > > > > > other revs, power thieves, necros, power spellbreakers, mesmers, condi holos.... its really easy. Just think about what could be possible counters > > > > > > > > > > in silver tier maybe, seriously this guy really think his list can kill this kind of rev > > > > > > > > > @"Virdo.1540" said: > > > > > > @"jsp.6912" said: > > > > > > > @"Virdo.1540" said: > > > > > > > > @"jsp.6912" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Virdo.1540" said: > > > > > > > > > Not really op. Its one of the easiest classes to counter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tell me what class counter a rev with the build of the mota final (mace shield staff) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > other revs, power thieves, necros, power spellbreakers, mesmers, condi holos.... its really easy. Just think about what could be possible counters > > > > > > > > > > > > in silver tier maybe > > > > > > > > > > nope. Always been hardcore rev counters. In Plat, legy and even wvw > > > > > > > > yeah sure lol > > > > > > > > this guy really said warrior beat this kind of rev seriously > > > > > > > > i hope he is na player > > > > > > Yes warrior can have enough cleansing ,boonrip and raw power. More than enough to handle any rev without problems. > > > If u arent able to win with warrior, its your problem. > > > > > > No, Eu. > > > > Not true at all. Unless war traits and equips every utility for cleansing he won't have a hope of keeping up with the constant condi pressure and will have zero kill potential. I fought a condi flamethrower engi last night on war running zerk and rune of resistance , shake it off and brawlers recovery and the fight lasted almost 2 mins. He literally stood there spamming his auto like a bot putting constant burns on me. Throughout the fight he shrugged off 4 attempts at bullscharge as if what's hard cc. He ate at least 5 gs f1's and multiple FC's as he wasn't skillful enough to avoid any of them or wasn't trying to and in the end I had to disengage my cleanses couldnt keep up and he shrugged off all my bursts and damage like nothing yet his burns dropped my hp so kitten fast. The game state right now is total trash and the current bleeding population speaks for itself, the current bunker condi $hit needs to be dealt with or this games pvp dead by 2021 guaranteed. > > Ok yeah that particular engi build is entirely ridiculous. You get constant uptime of stability with a tank build AND condi pressure (not strong condi pressure I have to admit but constant). When I see folks running it, they literally just stand there with FT and no attempts to dodge. They don't need to. It's not meta, but represents where this current pvp environment is in. Anyone know how to counter this guy? He has perma stab, and doesn't seem to care about condis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuma.1503 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 > @"mistsim.2748" said: > > @"Domino.1359" said: > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > @"Virdo.1540" said: > > > > > @"jsp.6912" said: > > > > > > @"jsp.6912" said: > > > > > > > @"Virdo.1540" said: > > > > > > > > @"jsp.6912" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Virdo.1540" said: > > > > > > > > > Not really op. Its one of the easiest classes to counter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tell me what class counter a rev with the build of the mota final (mace shield staff) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > other revs, power thieves, necros, power spellbreakers, mesmers, condi holos.... its really easy. Just think about what could be possible counters > > > > > > > > > > > > in silver tier maybe, seriously this guy really think his list can kill this kind of rev > > > > > > > > > > > @"Virdo.1540" said: > > > > > > > @"jsp.6912" said: > > > > > > > > @"Virdo.1540" said: > > > > > > > > > @"jsp.6912" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Virdo.1540" said: > > > > > > > > > > Not really op. Its one of the easiest classes to counter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tell me what class counter a rev with the build of the mota final (mace shield staff) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > other revs, power thieves, necros, power spellbreakers, mesmers, condi holos.... its really easy. Just think about what could be possible counters > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in silver tier maybe > > > > > > > > > > > > nope. Always been hardcore rev counters. In Plat, legy and even wvw > > > > > > > > > > yeah sure lol > > > > > > > > > > this guy really said warrior beat this kind of rev seriously > > > > > > > > > > i hope he is na player > > > > > > > > Yes warrior can have enough cleansing ,boonrip and raw power. More than enough to handle any rev without problems. > > > > If u arent able to win with warrior, its your problem. > > > > > > > > No, Eu. > > > > > > Not true at all. Unless war traits and equips every utility for cleansing he won't have a hope of keeping up with the constant condi pressure and will have zero kill potential. I fought a condi flamethrower engi last night on war running zerk and rune of resistance , shake it off and brawlers recovery and the fight lasted almost 2 mins. He literally stood there spamming his auto like a bot putting constant burns on me. Throughout the fight he shrugged off 4 attempts at bullscharge as if what's hard cc. He ate at least 5 gs f1's and multiple FC's as he wasn't skillful enough to avoid any of them or wasn't trying to and in the end I had to disengage my cleanses couldnt keep up and he shrugged off all my bursts and damage like nothing yet his burns dropped my hp so kitten fast. The game state right now is total trash and the current bleeding population speaks for itself, the current bunker condi $hit needs to be dealt with or this games pvp dead by 2021 guaranteed. > > > > Ok yeah that particular engi build is entirely ridiculous. You get constant uptime of stability with a tank build AND condi pressure (not strong condi pressure I have to admit but constant). When I see folks running it, they literally just stand there with FT and no attempts to dodge. They don't need to. It's not meta, but represents where this current pvp environment is in. > > Anyone know how to counter this guy? He has perma stab, and doesn't seem to care about condis. Core Necro. At the very least, you'll force them to use their brain because if not you will constantly corrupt their stab into fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > @"mistsim.2748" said: > > > > > @"Eugchriss.2046" said: > > > > > Since none of them explicitly say what exactly is op, what should be nerfed and how...it's going to take some time. > > > > > How do you want the devs to balance things when you, then complainers, don't even know yourself what is unbalanced? > > > > > > > > the stats speak the truth. Look at how many revs in the top 50 last season. almost every match in plat is 2 revs or 2 necros. not understanding that Malyx and Shiro need shaving is either pure ignorance, or blatant bias. > > > > > > Of course condi rev needs shaving, all classes that stack condis continually do cuz most condi types are broken right now with the ease of re-aplication. U add malyx ability to throw those condis back at opponents while have access to resistance that it does is a recipe for a broken build. These issues would have been foreseen by competent devs. > > > > you are the classical condi hater. > > condi class op -> nerf all codni > > power class op -> nerf that specific build and nothing else :D > > Condi thief- needs shaves > Condi revs - needs shaves > Burn in general does to much damage per tic for how often and easy re-aplication is. > It's not about nerfing ALL condi builds at all and whenever if stated nerfing burn I've said classes like guard should get compensated in other way to remain viable. > Right now what classes are meta? How many are condi? Yeah.... exactly? thief -> mostly power, but condi is still playable. rev -> both power and condi warrior -> mostly power, saw some condi but war sucks in general mesmer -> condi, but mesmer sucks in general ele -> support, I wont count it as power nor condi necro -> both power and condi engi -> power ranger -> both power and condi, but power more often guardian -> no clue so 6/9 classes have good power builds. 5/9 has condi builds, 6/9 if you count condi warrior. seems balanced for once? instead of having what used to be last patch 90% power builds and people still complained about 10% that could still make condi work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > @"mistsim.2748" said: > > > > > > @"Eugchriss.2046" said: > > > > > > Since none of them explicitly say what exactly is op, what should be nerfed and how...it's going to take some time. > > > > > > How do you want the devs to balance things when you, then complainers, don't even know yourself what is unbalanced? > > > > > > > > > > the stats speak the truth. Look at how many revs in the top 50 last season. almost every match in plat is 2 revs or 2 necros. not understanding that Malyx and Shiro need shaving is either pure ignorance, or blatant bias. > > > > > > > > Of course condi rev needs shaving, all classes that stack condis continually do cuz most condi types are broken right now with the ease of re-aplication. U add malyx ability to throw those condis back at opponents while have access to resistance that it does is a recipe for a broken build. These issues would have been foreseen by competent devs. > > > > > > you are the classical condi hater. > > > condi class op -> nerf all codni > > > power class op -> nerf that specific build and nothing else :D > > > > Condi thief- needs shaves > > Condi revs - needs shaves > > Burn in general does to much damage per tic for how often and easy re-aplication is. > > It's not about nerfing ALL condi builds at all and whenever if stated nerfing burn I've said classes like guard should get compensated in other way to remain viable. > > Right now what classes are meta? How many are condi? Yeah.... > > exactly? > thief -> mostly power, but condi is still playable. > rev -> both power and condi > warrior -> mostly power, saw some condi but war sucks in general > mesmer -> condi, but mesmer sucks in general > ele -> support, I wont count it as power nor condi > necro -> both power and condi > engi -> power > ranger -> both power and condi, but power more often > guardian -> no clue > so 6/9 classes have good power builds. > 5/9 has condi builds, 6/9 if you count condi warrior. > seems balanced for once? instead of having what used to be last patch 90% power builds and people still complained about 10% that could still make condi work U call the state of the game close to balanced? That's cool! enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > @"mistsim.2748" said: > > > > > > > @"Eugchriss.2046" said: > > > > > > > Since none of them explicitly say what exactly is op, what should be nerfed and how...it's going to take some time. > > > > > > > How do you want the devs to balance things when you, then complainers, don't even know yourself what is unbalanced? > > > > > > > > > > > > the stats speak the truth. Look at how many revs in the top 50 last season. almost every match in plat is 2 revs or 2 necros. not understanding that Malyx and Shiro need shaving is either pure ignorance, or blatant bias. > > > > > > > > > > Of course condi rev needs shaving, all classes that stack condis continually do cuz most condi types are broken right now with the ease of re-aplication. U add malyx ability to throw those condis back at opponents while have access to resistance that it does is a recipe for a broken build. These issues would have been foreseen by competent devs. > > > > > > > > you are the classical condi hater. > > > > condi class op -> nerf all codni > > > > power class op -> nerf that specific build and nothing else :D > > > > > > Condi thief- needs shaves > > > Condi revs - needs shaves > > > Burn in general does to much damage per tic for how often and easy re-aplication is. > > > It's not about nerfing ALL condi builds at all and whenever if stated nerfing burn I've said classes like guard should get compensated in other way to remain viable. > > > Right now what classes are meta? How many are condi? Yeah.... > > > > exactly? > > thief -> mostly power, but condi is still playable. > > rev -> both power and condi > > warrior -> mostly power, saw some condi but war sucks in general > > mesmer -> condi, but mesmer sucks in general > > ele -> support, I wont count it as power nor condi > > necro -> both power and condi > > engi -> power > > ranger -> both power and condi, but power more often > > guardian -> no clue > > so 6/9 classes have good power builds. > > 5/9 has condi builds, 6/9 if you count condi warrior. > > seems balanced for once? instead of having what used to be last patch 90% power builds and people still complained about 10% that could still make condi work > > U call the state of the game close to balanced? That's cool! enjoy. its balanced between condi and power. doesnt change the fact that some things aint right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aelska.4609 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Herald builds benefit from an insane amount of active defenses: * Staff 3: 2s of block each 20s * Staff 5: 1s of evade each 20s * Shield 5: 3s of block each 25s * Glint heal: 3s of total invulnerability each 30s And of course, 1 dodge each 10s which gives 3/4s of evade. So in a period of 300s, you accumulate 30+15+36+30 +22.5= 133.5 of "untouchable state". **Almost half of the time, you are immune to direct damage when playing staff+shield+glint revenant** But wait, there is more! **By playing Mallyx, you are nearly immune to conditions thanks to the insane amount of resistance you have**. Also, you get: * 20% damage reduction thanks to Demonic Resistance trait. I will not say "perma", but close to it. * Protection (33% damage reduction) with facet of chaos and shield #4. I will not say "perma", but close to it. * at least 2s of weakness each 15s with Facet of Elements. * at least 3s of weakness each 8s (18s if you take weapon swap in consideration) with staff #2 But ... There is even more !! With the sage amulet you have insane amount of heals: * 237 heal each time you use any of mallyx utilities * 753 each time you break stun * 490 each time you activate any of Glint utilities * 2732 each time you use shield #5 * 1465 each time you use shield #4 * 750 each time you use staff #2 * 1620 each time you use staff #4 * 5100 + nbrcondis*646 each time you use mallyx heal * 2053->infinity each time you use glint heal All of that on a medium health - heavy armor class. **__Regardless or their damage output (conditions or damage), or support abilities, this sustain is NOT reasonable.__** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrorhuz.4695 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 > @"Virdo.1540" said: > > @"jsp.6912" said: > > > @"Virdo.1540" said: > > > Not really op. Its one of the easiest classes to counter. > > > > tell me what class counter a rev with the build of the mota final (mace shield staff) > > other revs, power thieves, necros, power spellbreakers, mesmers, condi holos.... its really easy. Just think about what could be possible counters With the current state of mesmer, and how busted revs are, saying "mesmer counters rev" is quite a bit of an exaggeration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekt.5360 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 > @"Virdo.1540" said: > power SBs can permastun them, reflect condis and have big resistance uptime with big heals&cleanses. > And holos can have broken resistance uptime too. Mallyx' boonrip cant do anything about that Bullshit, power SB has literally 2 stuns, bull's charge and shield charge, and taking bulls charge means you have to remove another utility which could potentially give you condi cleanse/resistance. Copied condis from SB do nothing as SBs have 0 investment in condi damage, and the mallyx rev can transfer them (not copy, meaning he actually gets rid of said condi) BACK which basically leaves the SB with double the stacks after a successful full counter. And "big resistance uptime with big heals and cleanses". Yeah, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonFury.6243 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 > @"aelska.4609" said: > Herald builds benefit from an insane amount of active defenses: > > * Staff 3: 2s of block each 20s > * Staff 5: 1s of evade each 20s > * Shield 5: 3s of block each 25s > * Glint heal: 3s of total invulnerability each 30s > > And of course, 1 dodge each 10s which gives 3/4s of evade. > > So in a period of 300s, you accumulate 30+15+36+30 +22.5= 133.5 of "untouchable state". > > **Almost half of the time, you are immune to direct damage when playing staff+shield+glint revenant** > > But wait, there is more! > > **By playing Mallyx, you are nearly immune to conditions thanks to the insane amount of resistance you have**. Also, you get: > * 20% damage reduction thanks to Demonic Resistance trait. I will not say "perma", but close to it. > * Protection (33% damage reduction) with facet of chaos and shield #4. I will not say "perma", but close to it. > * at least 2s of weakness each 15s with Facet of Elements. > * at least 3s of weakness each 8s (18s if you take weapon swap in consideration) with staff #2 > > But ... There is even more !! With the sage amulet you have insane amount of heals: > > * 237 heal each time you use any of mallyx utilities > * 753 each time you break stun > * 490 each time you activate any of Glint utilities > * 2732 each time you use shield #5 > * 1465 each time you use shield #4 > * 750 each time you use staff #2 > * 1620 each time you use staff #4 > * 5100 + nbrcondis*646 each time you use mallyx heal > * 2053->infinity each time you use glint heal > > All of that on a medium health - heavy armor class. > > **__Regardless or their damage output (conditions or damage), or support abilities, this sustain is NOT reasonable.__** That is very helpful I hope Anet read this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugchriss.2046 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > @"aelska.4609" said: > > Herald builds benefit from an insane amount of active defenses: > > > > * Staff 3: 2s of block each 20s > > * Staff 5: 1s of evade each 20s > > * Shield 5: 3s of block each 25s > > * Glint heal: 3s of total invulnerability each 30s > > > > And of course, 1 dodge each 10s which gives 3/4s of evade. > > > > So in a period of 300s, you accumulate 30+15+36+30 +22.5= 133.5 of "untouchable state". > > > > **Almost half of the time, you are immune to direct damage when playing staff+shield+glint revenant** > > > > But wait, there is more! > > > > **By playing Mallyx, you are nearly immune to conditions thanks to the insane amount of resistance you have**. Also, you get: > > * 20% damage reduction thanks to Demonic Resistance trait. I will not say "perma", but close to it. > > * Protection (33% damage reduction) with facet of chaos and shield #4. I will not say "perma", but close to it. > > * at least 2s of weakness each 15s with Facet of Elements. > > * at least 3s of weakness each 8s (18s if you take weapon swap in consideration) with staff #2 > > > > But ... There is even more !! With the sage amulet you have insane amount of heals: > > > > * 237 heal each time you use any of mallyx utilities > > * 753 each time you break stun > > * 490 each time you activate any of Glint utilities > > * 2732 each time you use shield #5 > > * 1465 each time you use shield #4 > > * 750 each time you use staff #2 > > * 1620 each time you use staff #4 > > * 5100 + nbrcondis*646 each time you use mallyx heal > > * 2053->infinity each time you use glint heal > > > > All of that on a medium health - heavy armor class. > > > > **__Regardless or their damage output (conditions or damage), or support abilities, this sustain is NOT reasonable.__** > > That is very helpful I hope Anet read this I may sound biased, but sustain or damage on their own mean nothing. What matters is the ratio damage/sustain. The build @"aelska.4609" is talking about is build for sustain. its ratio damage/sustain is something like 15/85. Imagine building for sustain and actually have sustain. But yeah, glint and herald trait line need a massive sustain nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aelska.4609 Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 > @"Eugchriss.2046" said: > I may sound biased, but sustain or damage on their own mean nothing. What matters is the ratio damage/sustain. > The build @"aelska.4609" is talking about is build for sustain. its ratio damage/sustain is something like 15/85. Imagine building for sustain and actually have sustain. I based my thinking on how unhealthy a bunker is in gw2 pvp. Such a build could heal the enemies instead of doing damage, it would still be unhealthy. Being able to facetank damage in 1v1 or 2v1 without getting uncapped is both boring and extremely effective. A sustain build is not supposed to be almost invulnerable even if it deals damage; cleric amulet had good reasons to be removed. Not because it was overpowered -its output damage being 0- but because it was ... boring to play against. Condi revs reach the same level of "tankiness" cleric builds had before, if not more. But it also get topped by decent condi damage, and teamfight abilities (facet boons/teamfight resistance/mallyx corruption/CC). > But yeah, glint and herald trait line need a massive sustain nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megametzler.5729 Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 Don't forget, there is one thing condi rev is holding back: power rev. :smile: So that's good I guess. Expect a strong comeback when condi rev gets nerfed.^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsp.6912 Posted June 18, 2020 Author Share Posted June 18, 2020 > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > Don't forget, there is one thing condi rev is holding back: power rev. :smile: So that's good I guess. Expect a strong comeback when condi rev gets nerfed.^^ > > y it was i said i rather condi rev atm than fucking broken power rev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shao.7236 Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 > @"aelska.4609" said: > Herald builds benefit from an insane amount of active defenses: > * Staff 3: 2s of block each 20s > * Staff 5: 1s of evade each 20s > * Shield 5: 3s of block each 25s > * Glint heal: 3s of total invulnerability each 30s > And of course, 1 dodge each 10s which gives 3/4s of evade. > So in a period of 300s, you accumulate 30+15+36+30 +22.5= 133.5 of "untouchable state". Typical Power Herald without Sword 3 rotation that involves waiting in between like a Thief because continuous aggressive means death to user, check. Core Revenant can put out the same pressure with less waiting in between, more utility and more damage at once. How about counting the other classes that constantly get Vigor(Core or Renegade) or Stealth, or blocks or blinds. > **Almost half of the time, you are immune to direct damage when playing staff+shield+glint revenant** Seems reasonable without Stability, if you were to add Stability, bye bye damage. > But wait, there is more! > **By playing Mallyx, you are nearly immune to conditions thanks to the insane amount of resistance you have**. Also, you get: > * 20% damage reduction thanks to Demonic Resistance trait. I will not say "perma", but close to it. But nobody uses that trait, it's a lost of damage when you can have protection that doesn't scale as well. > * Protection (33% damage reduction) with facet of chaos and shield #4. I will not say "perma", but close to it. And what's wrong with that exactly when you have classes that get Protection on evade, Protection on nearly everything they do with an AoE that cleanses them? There's more but I can't think of 'em. Nobody ever uses this facet progressively anyway because it's always tied to a rune spell. > * at least 2s of weakness each 15s with Facet of Elements. Think about why that is. > * at least 3s of weakness each 8s (18s if you take weapon swap in consideration) with staff #2 In a perfect world it's reasonable, still not more than Core. > But ... There is even more !! With the sage amulet you have insane amount of heals: Insane is rather overstating, Revenant scaling is awful with heals. For a reason obviously. > * 237 heal each time you use any of mallyx utilities You mean anytime you get resistance which is extremely limited on Herald. > * 753 each time you break stun 3 times at best, which is nothing. > * 490 each time you activate any of Glint utilities Would spamming utilities be really helpful? Nobody uses that trait when they use shield anyway. > * 2732 each time you use shield #5 Because otherwise shield would be bad. > * 1465 each time you use shield #4 Again, because otherwise shield would be bad. > * 750 each time you use staff #2 Assuming people are now using staff which is technically a better alternative but it's not like they ain't gonna get hit using that skill. > * 1620 each time you use staff #4 Long vulnerable cast that obviously is always followed after 3 and 5 by a typical offender. If you're experienced enough with Revenant (IDK), you would know that without this skill, Power Revenant wouldn't exist. > * 5100 + nbrcondis*646 each time you use mallyx heal Only good assuming the user is good itself, which is EXTREMELY rare. The best I ever got with this heal skill is 11k, which is risking on it's own, the reward is justified. Should people NOT spam conditions if they want to kill. > * 2053->infinity each time you use glint heal Ah, yes. The skill that once it's used, you're extremely vulnerable. Should it always consciously be kept in the mind of people if you want to properly dispatch > All of that on a medium health - heavy armor class. Yeah, even though Ventari has a higher healing throughput with a CC, just no stunbreak. I think it's reasonable. > **__Regardless or their damage output (conditions or damage), or support abilities, this sustain is NOT reasonable.__** I think it's reasonable, given that core can outsustain Herald in the right plays because they aren't going to get tossed around. You're also ignoring everything else at play that Revenant depends on in the middle of a fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svez Poizon XD.5268 Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 I see this condi herald/malyx nerf as either reduction on his condition damage or reduction on its defenses, good example is glint 6 heal and shield 5 heal(too long invulnerability every 20 to 30 sec). I would just increase cooldown on glint heal to 40 seconds and shield 5 to 25 or 30 seconds so if it spam offensive spells to stack condis, it won't be also able to protect itself wherever it wants. I think its condis are fine, aoe condi spam is very strong dps overall(it is not single target but 5 targets) and as it is area of effect, maybe malyx 0 can be nerfed a little by reducing torment duration for main pulse and bonus pulses per energy cost, since it can apply 1 torment to 5 targets so it is 5 torment with each pulse, each second + if it uses energy there comes bonuses pusles for many many more torment overall, and i think that is its main problem and its big dps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancho.8750 Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 The whole issue is that bunker condi rev is way too good bunker and good roamer and it is even good for teamfight and builds that would counter it on the side node are not that good anywhere else since their only purpose is to counter rev. Last year we had the scrapper bunker, but at the same time we had duelist spelbreaker which was able to move them. Currently i'm not sure what can contest bunker rev, maybe ranger which would probably the next annoying bunker after they nerf rev here and there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aelska.4609 Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 > @"Shao.7236" said: > > @"aelska.4609" said: > > Herald builds benefit from an insane amount of active defenses: > > * Staff 3: 2s of block each 20s > > * Staff 5: 1s of evade each 20s > > * Shield 5: 3s of block each 25s > > * Glint heal: 3s of total invulnerability each 30s > > And of course, 1 dodge each 10s which gives 3/4s of evade. > > So in a period of 300s, you accumulate 30+15+36+30 +22.5= 133.5 of "untouchable state". > Typical Power Herald without Sword 3 rotation that involves waiting in between like a Thief because continuous aggressive means death to user, check. Core Revenant can put out the same pressure with less waiting in between, more utility and more damage at once. How about counting the other classes that constantly get Vigor(Core or Renegade) or Stealth, or blocks or blinds. > > **Almost half of the time, you are immune to direct damage when playing staff+shield+glint revenant** > Seems reasonable without Stability, if you were to add Stability, bye bye damage. > > But wait, there is more! > > **By playing Mallyx, you are nearly immune to conditions thanks to the insane amount of resistance you have**. Also, you get: > > * 20% damage reduction thanks to Demonic Resistance trait. I will not say "perma", but close to it. > But nobody uses that trait, it's a lost of damage when you can have protection that doesn't scale as well. > > * Protection (33% damage reduction) with facet of chaos and shield #4. I will not say "perma", but close to it. > And what's wrong with that exactly when you have classes that get Protection on evade, Protection on nearly everything they do with an AoE that cleanses them? There's more but I can't think of 'em. Nobody ever uses this facet progressively anyway because it's always tied to a rune spell. > > * at least 2s of weakness each 15s with Facet of Elements. > Think about why that is. > > * at least 3s of weakness each 8s (18s if you take weapon swap in consideration) with staff #2 > In a perfect world it's reasonable, still not more than Core. > > But ... There is even more !! With the sage amulet you have insane amount of heals: > Insane is rather overstating, Revenant scaling is awful with heals. For a reason obviously. > > * 237 heal each time you use any of mallyx utilities > You mean anytime you get resistance which is extremely limited on Herald. > > * 753 each time you break stun > 3 times at best, which is nothing. > > * 490 each time you activate any of Glint utilities > Would spamming utilities be really helpful? Nobody uses that trait when they use shield anyway. > > * 2732 each time you use shield #5 > Because otherwise shield would be bad. > > * 1465 each time you use shield #4 > Again, because otherwise shield would be bad. > > * 750 each time you use staff #2 > Assuming people are now using staff which is technically a better alternative but it's not like they ain't gonna get hit using that skill. > > * 1620 each time you use staff #4 > Long vulnerable cast that obviously is always followed after 3 and 5 by a typical offender. If you're experienced enough with Revenant (IDK), you would know that without this skill, Power Revenant wouldn't exist. > > * 5100 + nbrcondis*646 each time you use mallyx heal > Only good assuming the user is good itself, which is EXTREMELY rare. The best I ever got with this heal skill is 11k, which is risking on it's own, the reward is justified. Should people NOT spam conditions if they want to kill. > > * 2053->infinity each time you use glint heal > Ah, yes. The skill that once it's used, you're extremely vulnerable. Should it always consciously be kept in the mind of people if you want to properly dispatch > > All of that on a medium health - heavy armor class. > Yeah, even though Ventari has a higher healing throughput with a CC, just no stunbreak. I think it's reasonable. > > **__Regardless or their damage output (conditions or damage), or support abilities, this sustain is NOT reasonable.__** > I think it's reasonable, given that core can outsustain Herald in the right plays because they aren't going to get tossed around. You're also ignoring everything else at play that Revenant depends on in the middle of a fight. The problem with that kind of reasoning is that everything separately does not seem overpowered. But when you put them together, as I did in the post you quoted, it becomes ridiculous. I invite you to imagine the most bunkerish build you can find on any other class and to list us all its defensive options. Maybe we will then be able to discuss. All I am seeing now is "Hey look, this is a bolt and this is a nut and this is a cylinder it doesn't seem to be so overpowered taken in its own" while I am telling you "yes but together they are a machine gun." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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