Legendary Wyvern Matriarch dies way too fast

[Tails.9372]

I don't think that the HP of the Matriarch is the problem here. I'd say it generally boils down to a combination of two things:

 

1st: the ones fighting it before the zerg arrives fighting a downscaled version which is designed for maps with less participation

 

and 2nd: the ones fighting it probably "know what they are doing" as in they actually do some decent damage which IMO is the main "issue" here and you can't really address it with scaling either since this would require the game to "know" how "strong" everyone (not just in theory but also in practice) is

 

And there is really nothing to be done in regards to its HP. Either you balance the meta around "the average player" meaning people with decent damage are going to faceroll it or you balance the meta around what the more "hardcore" part of the playerbase is capable of doing meaning it's going to be almost unplayable if the map is rather empty and no hardcore players are around to "carry the casuals".

[crepuscular.9047]

I think I made this proposal before a long time ago in another thread with my idea of how to improve VB's metas

 

First, the bosses should spawn after the chopper had landed, currently choppers land ~30sec after the bosses spawn

 

Second, bosses should only spawn if the corresponding chopper point is under pact control, this encourages people to do map meta

[Najten.2418]

> @"Jilora.9524" said:

> You do get that if someone is running the night meta you split up to kill the 5 bosses right? So as much as I appreciate this added comment there were still four other bosses to kill unless of course your story isn't accurate. If you don't control rally points you also don't get copters to bring you up which is more then half the time anyway. Sounds more he ran day and then didn't understand night and missed out on one boss and none from his group also knew. It's been this way for a long time and it isn't changing

 

Uhm. He was the only commander. Either way, that people "split" to the other bosses doesn't fix the fact that he secured the Pact Encampment rally point, used the helicopter to get to Matriarch, only to find her already dead. He obviously didn't know that nowadays it's a "thing" to camp the boss and kill her before anyone has a chance to get up.. That's why I'm assuming he was a returning player, and with bs like bosses being dead before people get to them "the right way" (remember when people wouldn't do Shadow Behemoth pre cuz it meant they probably wouldn't reach the boss?) might make people like him not stick around.

 

And that something's been broken a long time, doesn't make it right, or mean it can't be fixed.

 

[Jilora.9524]

> @"Najten.2418" said:

> > @"Jilora.9524" said:

> > You do get that if someone is running the night meta you split up to kill the 5 bosses right? So as much as I appreciate this added comment there were still four other bosses to kill unless of course your story isn't accurate. If you don't control rally points you also don't get copters to bring you up which is more then half the time anyway. Sounds more he ran day and then didn't understand night and missed out on one boss and none from his group also knew. It's been this way for a long time and it isn't changing

>

> Uhm. He was the only commander. Either way, that people "split" to the other bosses doesn't fix the fact that he secured the Pact Encampment rally point, used the helicopter to get to Matriarch, only to find her already dead. He obviously didn't know that nowadays it's a "thing" to camp the boss and kill her before anyone has a chance to get up.. That's why I'm assuming he was a returning player, and with bs like bosses being dead before people get to them "the right way" (remember when people wouldn't do Shadow Behemoth pre cuz it meant they probably wouldn't reach the boss?) might make people like him not stick around.

>

> And that something's been broken a long time, doesn't make it right, or mean it can't be fixed.

>

 

And I feel for him. He will learn and possible adjust but to want to change everything for that 1 guy is extreme but gl

[Najten.2418]

> @"Jilora.9524" said:

> And I feel for him. He will learn and possible adjust but to want to change everything for that 1 guy is extreme but gl

 

You saying you seriously believe that there is only ONE returning/new player? Sure.

Also, nobody's talking about changing "everything", it's literally a suggestion to make sure bosses don't spawn/aren't able to die before the way upstairs is available. If that totally breaks people's game and removes all fun with VB meta then.. I really don't know what to say.

[Jilora.9524]

> @"Najten.2418" said:

> > @"Jilora.9524" said:

> > And I feel for him. He will learn and possible adjust but to want to change everything for that 1 guy is extreme but gl

>

> You saying you seriously believe that there is only ONE returning/new player? Sure.

> Also, nobody's talking about changing "everything", it's literally a suggestion to make sure bosses don't spawn/aren't able to die before the way upstairs is available. If that totally breaks people's game and removes all fun with VB meta then.. I really don't know what to say.

 

I'm saying most returning new players don't just need Mat and aren't going to be popping commander tags 1st day back not knowing well anything. Was he going for t4 because again 4 other bosses gets you the AG. You want them to die fast. No one does Pat why because it takes forever so change all to that and even less kill any boss let alone get a t4 on old content. No one does the meta the right way anymore. It's kill 1 boss. TD is show up to gerant. AB has no pylons done most times. You want a change for a silly reason. 1 guy logged off cause a boss was killed with 4 others available. So lets make sure the 1000 players who kill it daily now need to take 3 times as long. So no ty but gl

[Najten.2418]

> @"Jilora.9524" said:

> I'm saying most returning new players don't just need Mat and aren't going to be popping commander tags 1st day back not knowing well anything. Was he going for t4 because again 4 other bosses gets you the AG. You want them to die fast. No one does Pat why because it takes forever so change all to that and even less kill any boss let alone get a t4 on old content. No one does the meta the right way anymore. It's kill 1 boss. TD is show up to gerant. AB has no pylons done most times. You want a change for a silly reason. 1 guy logged off cause a boss was killed with 4 others available. So lets make sure the 1000 players who kill it daily now need to take 3 times as long. So no ty but gl

 

I'm assuming he used to command the meta before he took a break, but I don't know the guy. All I know is he said "wow, couldn't wait? f u" and tagged down.

 

Patriarch with his, what? 5 minutes? That is "forever" to you? Sounds like you're a bit impatient.

 

And again, how is changing something like making helicopters spawn earlier (best option imo), or bosses spawn later/be invulnerable longer (less good option), "making sure the 1000 players that kill it daily now need to take 3 times as long" ??? Slowing down a kill doesn't necessarily mean boost the boss' HP. And, even if a change does make it take three times longer, what do you think is more likely.. 1000 players that farm that boss daily rage-quitting because it now takes 3-6 minutes to kill the boss, or people that are new to the content or returning players giving it a pass because whenever they tried to do it it didn't work?

[Jilora.9524]

> @"Najten.2418" said:

> > @"Jilora.9524" said:

> > I'm saying most returning new players don't just need Mat and aren't going to be popping commander tags 1st day back not knowing well anything. Was he going for t4 because again 4 other bosses gets you the AG. You want them to die fast. No one does Pat why because it takes forever so change all to that and even less kill any boss let alone get a t4 on old content. No one does the meta the right way anymore. It's kill 1 boss. TD is show up to gerant. AB has no pylons done most times. You want a change for a silly reason. 1 guy logged off cause a boss was killed with 4 others available. So lets make sure the 1000 players who kill it daily now need to take 3 times as long. So no ty but gl

>

> I'm assuming he used to command the meta before he took a break, but I don't know the guy. All I know is he said "wow, couldn't wait? f u" and tagged down.

>

> Patriarch with his, what? 5 minutes? That is "forever" to you? Sounds like you're a bit impatient.

>

> And again, how is changing something like making helicopters spawn earlier (best option imo), or bosses spawn later/be invulnerable longer (less good option), "making sure the 1000 players that kill it daily now need to take 3 times as long" ??? Slowing down a kill doesn't necessarily mean boost the boss' HP. And, even if a change does make it take three times longer, what do you think is more likely.. 1000 players that farm that boss daily rage-quitting because it now takes 3-6 minutes to kill the boss, or people that are new to the content or returning players giving it a pass because whenever they tried to do it it didn't work?

 

It's not just me. You ever do Mat? It is the most toxic area ever. If it charges and takes a little be longer the insults fly. No the 1000 player won't rage quit but they go there cause it's fast and if they complain and rage about 30 extra seconds because of a charge then yes we/they will not even do Mat if it's 5 or 6 minutes. All this for that 1 guy who you assume an awful lot about. You even get to assume no one would quit over 2-4 extra minutes and new players quit because they missed Mat once. Fine change it. I just won't be at a 6 min Mat.

[Khisanth.2948]

> @"Manasa Devi.7958" said:

> She should start with a few flyovers, breath weapon and all, then land in a random spot. Break up the camping crowd mechanism and create lead time for non-campers at the same time.

 

Makes more sense than landing then immediately trying to fly off to start doing that exact thing.

 

> @"Dayra.7405" said:

> You don’t need to wait for the heli, if you have a skyscale. Get one and simply fly up whenever you want.

>

> And yes, people who got a skyscale seem to know how to break a cc-bar so she dies before heli-people get there.

 

You can easily get there with just bouncing mushrooms and t1 gliding or just gliding with updrafts unlocked.

 

> @"crepuscular.9047" said:

> I think I made this proposal before a long time ago in another thread with my idea of how to improve VB's metas

>

> First, the bosses should spawn after the chopper had landed, currently choppers land ~30sec after the bosses spawn

>

> Second, bosses should only spawn if the corresponding chopper point is under pact control, this encourages people to do map meta

 

A lot more likely to encourage most of the people who do it now to ignore VB and replace it with the next best alternative such as Teq and Forged with Fire.

[casualkenny.9817]

its a fact that, if u control the rally point at :09, and take the chopper up once it is available, you will be able to hit matriarch 30-45s after she spawns (except in very exceptional high dps cases, 1 in 20 mats), so the claim that she dies before you can get up via chopper is false.

 

but letting choppers spawn faster should be enabled (no need for that weird 30s delay). just leave the mat fight alone.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"casualkenny.9817" said:

> its a fact that, if u control the rally point at :09, and take the chopper up once it is available, you will be able to hit matriarch 30-45s after she spawns (except in very exceptional high dps cases, 1 in 20 mats), so the claim that she dies before you can get up via chopper is false.

A few people knowing what they do can indeed burn down matriarch in half a minute if she's not upscaled yet by the presence of many players that do _not_ know what to do.

The reward is currently calibrated for a longer fight, not for a 30s dps burst.

 

[Najten.2418]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> The reward is currently calibrated for a longer fight, not for a 30s dps burst.

This. So much this.

 

[crepuscular.9047]

> @"Khisanth.2948" said:

> > @"crepuscular.9047" said:

> > I think I made this proposal before a long time ago in another thread with my idea of how to improve VB's metas

> >

> > First, the bosses should spawn after the chopper had landed, currently choppers land ~30sec after the bosses spawn

> >

> > Second, bosses should only spawn if the corresponding chopper point is under pact control, this encourages people to do map meta

>

> A lot more likely to encourage most of the people who do it now to ignore VB and replace it with the next best alternative such as Teq and Forged with Fire.

 

having the boss spawn after a chopper lands give time for people to get up to the canopy for the full fight, Matriarch is usually near 50% hp by the time chopper lands and for you to get up there

 

and not sure what you mean, Teq and Forge Hounds would still take longer even with this change

it takes less than 5min for 2-3 players to clear a chopper landing spot, and it does not have to be upgraded for a chopper to land

clearing the chopper landing spot gives people ease of access from wp to take the chopper to the upper canopy, allows people to rejoin quickly if died during the fight

 

 

[crepuscular.9047]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"casualkenny.9817" said:

> > its a fact that, if u control the rally point at :09, and take the chopper up once it is available, you will be able to hit matriarch 30-45s after she spawns (except in very exceptional high dps cases, 1 in 20 mats), so the claim that she dies before you can get up via chopper is false.

> A few people knowing what they do can indeed burn down matriarch in half a minute if she's not upscaled yet by the presence of many players that do _not_ know what to do.

> The reward is currently calibrated for a longer fight, not for a 30s dps burst.

>

 

I've been in overflow maps with just 3-4 ppl that took down Matri faster than the full map because how easy the breakbar is, no dead people staying dead making it difficult to break the bar, and no trolls standing at edge making Matri charging around ruining it for everyone else

[Khisanth.2948]

> @"crepuscular.9047" said:

> > @"Khisanth.2948" said:

> > > @"crepuscular.9047" said:

> > > I think I made this proposal before a long time ago in another thread with my idea of how to improve VB's metas

> > >

> > > First, the bosses should spawn after the chopper had landed, currently choppers land ~30sec after the bosses spawn

> > >

> > > Second, bosses should only spawn if the corresponding chopper point is under pact control, this encourages people to do map meta

> >

> > A lot more likely to encourage most of the people who do it now to ignore VB and replace it with the next best alternative such as Teq and Forged with Fire.

>

> having the boss spawn after a chopper lands give time for people to get up to the canopy for the full fight, Matriarch is usually near 50% hp by the time chopper lands and for you to get up there

>

> and not sure what you mean, Teq and Forge Hounds would still take longer even with this change

> it takes less than 5min for 2-3 players to clear a chopper landing spot, and it does not have to be upgraded for a chopper to land

> clearing the chopper landing spot gives people ease of access from wp to take the chopper to the upper canopy, allows people to rejoin quickly if died during the fight

>

>

 

Time slots. All 3 happen at roughly the same time. It is obviously not possible to do all three so different people go for different one of the three. There also needs to be enough time to make it to the next event.

[crepuscular.9047]

> @"Khisanth.2948" said:> > @"crepuscular.9047" said:> > > @"Khisanth.2948" said:> > > > @"crepuscular.9047" said:> > > > I think I made this proposal before a long time ago in another thread with my idea of how to improve VB's metas> > > > > > > > First, the bosses should spawn after the chopper had landed, currently choppers land ~30sec after the bosses spawn> > > > > > > > Second, bosses should only spawn if the corresponding chopper point is under pact control, this encourages people to do map meta> > > > > > A lot more likely to encourage most of the people who do it now to ignore VB and replace it with the next best alternative such as Teq and Forged with Fire. > > > > having the boss spawn after a chopper lands give time for people to get up to the canopy for the full fight, Matriarch is usually near 50% hp by the time chopper lands and for you to get up there> > > > and not sure what you mean, Teq and Forge Hounds would still take longer even with this change> > it takes less than 5min for 2-3 players to clear a chopper landing spot, and it does not have to be upgraded for a chopper to land> > clearing the chopper landing spot gives people ease of access from wp to take the chopper to the upper canopy, allows people to rejoin quickly if died during the fight> > > > > > Time slots. All 3 happen at roughly the same time. It is obviously not possible to do all three so different people go for different one of the three. There also needs to be enough time to make it to the next event.well yeah, that's a time management issue really...say right after daily reset, which probably the worstTeq at xx:00Matri at xx:10Pinata at xx:20TD at xx:30go to Teq you pretty much guaranteed to miss Matri, go to Matri you pretty much guarantee to miss Teq... and even if you managed to get into Teq, it's likely one that's gonna finish up late, which means you are unlikely to make it to PinataIf you are in a Pinata with late Casino, you need to decide to stay or be late to TD, which may mean you are very unlikely to get into a good mapI usually skip the Matri right after reset, just do Teq > Pinata > TD, and do the Matri that's after the 1st KQ of the day

I mean, this goes all the way back to my vanilla days of doing world bosses, Teq and Claw of Jormag are on the exactly the same time on weekdays after workfuck me anet :lol:

[Yggranya.5201]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"casualkenny.9817" said:

> > its a fact that, if u control the rally point at :09, and take the chopper up once it is available, you will be able to hit matriarch 30-45s after she spawns (except in very exceptional high dps cases, 1 in 20 mats), so the claim that she dies before you can get up via chopper is false.

> A few people knowing what they do can indeed burn down matriarch in half a minute if she's not upscaled yet by the presence of many players that do _not_ know what to do.

> The reward is currently calibrated for a longer fight, not for a 30s dps burst.

>

 

They know what to do, they simply activate auto-attack and continue watching netflix/youtube or something.

[Tyncale.1629]

As the OP suggested, just make her spawn a few minutes after the choppers are up, problem solved and no need to mess with the encounter itself. This seems to me like such a logical and easy fix that I honestly can not understand why Anet is not doing this.

[Linken.6345]

> @"Tyncale.1629" said:

> As the OP suggested, just make her spawn a few minutes after the choppers are up, problem solved and no need to mess with the encounter itself. This seems to me like such a logical and easy fix that I honestly can not understand why Anet is not doing this.

 

instead of making her spawn later make chooper spawn earlier.

[Najten.2418]

> @"Linken.6345" said:

> > @"Tyncale.1629" said:

> > As the OP suggested, just make her spawn a few minutes after the choppers are up, problem solved and no need to mess with the encounter itself. This seems to me like such a logical and easy fix that I honestly can not understand why Anet is not doing this.

>

> instead of making her spawn later make chooper spawn earlier.

 

Agreed. Best fix would be to make choppers spawn 30 seconds BEFORE bosses spawn rather than after.. And not change anything else. That way you still have the full 20 minutes to kill all 5 bosses.

[Hesione.9412]

> @"crepuscular.9047" said:

> I think I made this proposal before a long time ago in another thread with my idea of how to improve VB's metas

>

> First, the bosses should spawn after the chopper had landed, currently choppers land ~30sec after the bosses spawn

>

> Second, bosses should only spawn if the corresponding chopper point is under pact control, this encourages people to do map meta

 

Yep, I have made the "bosses should spawn after the chopper" suggestion at least once before, a few months ago. The chopper point under pact control is a good point.

[LadyKitty.6120]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"casualkenny.9817" said:

> > its a fact that, if u control the rally point at :09, and take the chopper up once it is available, you will be able to hit matriarch 30-45s after she spawns (except in very exceptional high dps cases, 1 in 20 mats), so the claim that she dies before you can get up via chopper is false.

> A few people knowing what they do can indeed burn down matriarch in half a minute if she's not upscaled yet by the presence of many players that do _not_ know what to do.

> The reward is currently calibrated for a longer fight, not for a 30s dps burst.

>

 

This indeed. If there's 4 or 5 decent raid tier power dpsers around, each of them would be about as strong as 12ish players the boss was designed for and thus 5 such pretty much equals to 60-player casual squad taking down a boss planned for 5.