Lyttle.9426 Posted July 7, 2020 Author Share Posted July 7, 2020 > @"TwoGhosts.6790" said: > Because we have a good one already. ArcDps limitations: **1. area is missing buff extension source (eg. signet of inspiration) - not notified by server. 2. area is missing percent-based damage (eg. matthias' hadouken) - not notified by server. 3. area is missing some siphon damage (eg. food, sigil, some traits) - not notified by server. 4. area is missing healing - not notified by server. 5. area is missing breakbar damage - not notified by server. 6. area is missing hard cc context - not notified by server. 7. area is missing combo finishers - not notified by server. 8. area is missing some gadget owners for damage association - not notified by server. 9. area condition damage uses simulated attribute building from gear, traits, and buffs, on a simulated server tick. 10. area condition damage scaling in levels 1 to 79 is different from the game's scaling. 11. area condition damage on-skill-use procs on animation start instead of on skill use - not notified by server. 12. area strike damage notify bubble may cause some events (eg. deimos) to be out of range - not notified by server. 13. area strips ignore last-stack stability, cc and strip indistinguishable. 14. area skill activation will only count skills which have animations (no shouts, no instants) - not notified by server. 15. area overstack and applied do not include ignored stacks (lower than lowest existing stack) - not notified by server.** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyttle.9426 Posted July 7, 2020 Author Share Posted July 7, 2020 > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > > @"Lyttle.9426" said: > > > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > > > > @"keenedge.9675" said: > > > > > > That is in the same category as 'gear inspection'. Too divisive. > > > > > > > > > > > I think gear inspect would be an excellent QoL feature > > > > > > > > Only with permission of the inspectee. Generate a temp inspection key and post it in chat that can be used for others to see your gear. > > > Why? > > > Just about every other major MMO I have played allows this kind of functionality without some form of silly consent mechanism. > > > > GW2 isn't every other major MMO. And IMO it shouldn't be. > I'm not sure this is a good argument against such a useful QoL addition. Im not sure what it means. It's like the Amish in the US not using automobiles because "they are not like any other community." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emberstone.2904 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 > @"Lyttle.9426" said: > > @"TwoGhosts.6790" said: > > Because we have a good one already. > > Perhaps, but if Anet where smart they could cash in by making it a Gem Store item. This is exactly why we don't want ArenaNet to make another in-house replacement for an addon that already works well enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knite.1542 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 Please no. If Anet made this it would have less features than arcDPS, it would cost an arm and a leg, and they would explicitly disallow the use of arcDPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulvar.1239 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 > @"Lyttle.9426" said: > > @"keenedge.9675" said: > > That is in the same category as 'gear inspection'. Too divisive. > > > > Nah. An in house DPS meter can be hard-coded to give out just the account user's DPS/Heals and no one else's. Unlike the 3rd party ones that give out the entire party's DPS output from raw server data. > > It's not all or nothing. > > Dont know why it hasn't been done. There's the training grounds. > @"knite.1542" said: > Please no. If Anet made this it would have less features than arcDPS, it would cost an arm and a leg, and they would explicitly disallow the use of arcDPS. Are you trying to promote the idea to ANet ? Because it sounds like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannelore.8153 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 My issue with DPS meters is they almost never take support into account. And I don't mean heals, I mean things like Aegis and Protection too. Without that, the game wil always shift back towards being DPS-centric as people get the illusion that support isn't needed, when in reality, support has carried this game since the beginning..its just that over time its changed shapes. If the meter shows everything, even things like reviving others, I would be 100% in favor of it. I would love for people to finally understand just how effective their allues are instead of just saying how trash they are all the time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knite.1542 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 > @"Hannelore.8153" said: > My issue with DPS meters is they almost never take support into account. And I don't mean heals, I mean things like Aegis and Protection too. Without that, the game wil always shift back towards being DPS-centric as people get the illusion that support isn't needed, when in reality, support has carried this game since the beginning..its just that over time its changed shapes. > > If the meter shows everything, even things like reviving others, I would be 100% in favor of it. I would love for people to finally understand just how effective their allues are instead of just saying how trash they are all the time! Arc DPS does this. lol Also who are all these people that think support isn't needed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poormany.4507 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 Based on the way build templates were handled, I would imagine it would cost 300 gems per inspect and be character bound. So no for me. If they did manage to make a decent one in game, I would be fine with a consented DPS check, but a non-consented one would just cause too much toxicity and public noob-calling imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannelore.8153 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 > @"knite.1542" said: > > @"Hannelore.8153" said: > > My issue with DPS meters is they almost never take support into account. And I don't mean heals, I mean things like Aegis and Protection too. Without that, the game wil always shift back towards being DPS-centric as people get the illusion that support isn't needed, when in reality, support has carried this game since the beginning..its just that over time its changed shapes. > > > > If the meter shows everything, even things like reviving others, I would be 100% in favor of it. I would love for people to finally understand just how effective their allues are instead of just saying how trash they are all the time! > > Arc DPS does this. lol > Also who are all these people that think support isn't needed? It doesn't, it specifically states that the server doesn't report alot of information, even alot of damages. What is reported is lackluster at best, and there's no way to get a clear reading on a player's effectiveness using a third-party tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoSundown.5419 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 > @"TwoGhosts.6790" said: > Be very careful what you wish for. > We used to have a fantastic 3rd party templates tool. > Now we got an overpriced, painfully restrictive, crappy loadout thing that still doesn't work properly. Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiyo.3578 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 If we got a $40-50 expansion instead of living story(lol) build templates would've probably not been monetized to the moon and back 3 times over. Can we please abandon living story as content and just sell expacs with tons of features? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khisanth.2948 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 > @"Emberstone.2904" said: > > @"Lyttle.9426" said: > > > @"TwoGhosts.6790" said: > > > Because we have a good one already. > > > > Perhaps, but if Anet where smart they could cash in by making it a Gem Store item. > > This is exactly why we don't want ArenaNet to make another in-house replacement for an addon that already works well enough. but look at how awesome templates turned out! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knite.1542 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 > @"Hannelore.8153" said: > My issue with DPS meters is they almost never take support into account. And I don't mean heals, I mean things like Aegis and Protection too. Without that, the game wil always shift back towards being DPS-centric as people get the illusion that support isn't needed, when in reality, support has carried this game since the beginning..its just that over time its changed shapes. > > If the meter shows everything, even things like reviving others, I would be 100% in favor of it. I would love for people to finally understand just how effective their allues are instead of just saying how trash they are all the time! https://dps.report/UYTP-20190807-204012_gors Here is an example of a dps report. It shows aegis, protection, and revives. Not only that but this 'lackluster at best' tool even gives you a replay of the fight including player position, skills used, boons, damage, and even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyttle.9426 Posted July 8, 2020 Author Share Posted July 8, 2020 > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > @"Lyttle.9426" said: > > > @"keenedge.9675" said: > > > That is in the same category as 'gear inspection'. Too divisive. > > > > > > > Nah. An in house DPS meter can be hard-coded to give out just the account user's DPS/Heals and no one else's. Unlike the 3rd party ones that give out the entire party's DPS output from raw server data. > > > > It's not all or nothing. > > > > Dont know why it hasn't been done. > > There's the training grounds. > > > @"knite.1542" said: > > Please no. If Anet made this it would have less features than arcDPS, it would cost an arm and a leg, and they would explicitly disallow the use of arcDPS. > > Are you trying to promote the idea to ANet ? Because it sounds like it. Sure, why not? Anet, just like any other business is profit oriented. If they produce a product I like and want, I will buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 > @"Lyttle.9426" said: > > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > > @"Lyttle.9426" said: > > > > @"keenedge.9675" said: > > > > That is in the same category as 'gear inspection'. Too divisive. > > > > > > > > > > Nah. An in house DPS meter can be hard-coded to give out just the account user's DPS/Heals and no one else's. Unlike the 3rd party ones that give out the entire party's DPS output from raw server data. > > > > > > It's not all or nothing. > > > > > > Dont know why it hasn't been done. > > > > There's the training grounds. > > > > > @"knite.1542" said: > > > Please no. If Anet made this it would have less features than arcDPS, it would cost an arm and a leg, and they would explicitly disallow the use of arcDPS. > > > > Are you trying to promote the idea to ANet ? Because it sounds like it. > > Sure, why not? Anet, just like any other business is profit oriented. If they produce a product I like and want, I will buy it. > > So getting it for free is worse then either liking it and buying or not be able to use it at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astyrah.4015 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 > @"Linken.6345" said: > > @"Lyttle.9426" said: > > > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > > > @"Lyttle.9426" said: > > > > > @"keenedge.9675" said: > > > > > That is in the same category as 'gear inspection'. Too divisive. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nah. An in house DPS meter can be hard-coded to give out just the account user's DPS/Heals and no one else's. Unlike the 3rd party ones that give out the entire party's DPS output from raw server data. > > > > > > > > It's not all or nothing. > > > > > > > > Dont know why it hasn't been done. > > > > > > There's the training grounds. > > > > > > > @"knite.1542" said: > > > > Please no. If Anet made this it would have less features than arcDPS, it would cost an arm and a leg, and they would explicitly disallow the use of arcDPS. > > > > > > Are you trying to promote the idea to ANet ? Because it sounds like it. > > > > Sure, why not? Anet, just like any other business is profit oriented. If they produce a product I like and want, I will buy it. > > > > > > So getting it for free is worse then either liking it and buying or not be able to use it at all? i believe everyone here wants it for free (if they would ever implement a built-in DPS meter) but some just wont mind paying as long as it's good quality. i do really hope on the very very unlikely chance that Anet would give us a DPS meter, and it's as bad as the build/equipment templates, that ArcDPS wouldn't go away (or stop development) and instead continue as a third party alternative to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knite.1542 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 > @"Linken.6345" said: > > @"Lyttle.9426" said: > > > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > > > @"Lyttle.9426" said: > > > > > @"keenedge.9675" said: > > > > > That is in the same category as 'gear inspection'. Too divisive. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nah. An in house DPS meter can be hard-coded to give out just the account user's DPS/Heals and no one else's. Unlike the 3rd party ones that give out the entire party's DPS output from raw server data. > > > > > > > > It's not all or nothing. > > > > > > > > Dont know why it hasn't been done. > > > > > > There's the training grounds. > > > > > > > @"knite.1542" said: > > > > Please no. If Anet made this it would have less features than arcDPS, it would cost an arm and a leg, and they would explicitly disallow the use of arcDPS. > > > > > > Are you trying to promote the idea to ANet ? Because it sounds like it. > > > > Sure, why not? Anet, just like any other business is profit oriented. If they produce a product I like and want, I will buy it. > > > > > > So getting it for free is worse then either liking it and buying or not be able to use it at all? I think he believes that if anet made it, it would be better than the 3rd party tool we have now. Knowing arenanet though, that is almost guaranteed to not be the case. They are not about quality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 > @"Astyrah.4015" said: > > @"Linken.6345" said: > > > @"Lyttle.9426" said: > > > > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > > > > @"Lyttle.9426" said: > > > > > > @"keenedge.9675" said: > > > > > > That is in the same category as 'gear inspection'. Too divisive. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nah. An in house DPS meter can be hard-coded to give out just the account user's DPS/Heals and no one else's. Unlike the 3rd party ones that give out the entire party's DPS output from raw server data. > > > > > > > > > > It's not all or nothing. > > > > > > > > > > Dont know why it hasn't been done. > > > > > > > > There's the training grounds. > > > > > > > > > @"knite.1542" said: > > > > > Please no. If Anet made this it would have less features than arcDPS, it would cost an arm and a leg, and they would explicitly disallow the use of arcDPS. > > > > > > > > Are you trying to promote the idea to ANet ? Because it sounds like it. > > > > > > Sure, why not? Anet, just like any other business is profit oriented. If they produce a product I like and want, I will buy it. > > > > > > > > > > So getting it for free is worse then either liking it and buying or not be able to use it at all? > > i believe everyone here wants it for free (if they would ever implement a built-in DPS meter) but some just wont mind paying as long as it's good quality. > > i do really hope on the very very unlikely chance that Anet would give us a DPS meter, and it's as bad as the build/equipment templates, that ArcDPS wouldn't go away (or stop development) and instead continue as a third party alternative to it. You can bet your shorts that if anet made a dps meter, it would be monetised just look at build loadouts and arcdps would be made to stop development forcing people to either pay up or not be able to use a dps meter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westenev.5289 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 I mean, the game already allows you to track your damage in the chat. Turning this data into usable numbers (like dps) would prevent players who use this feature from confusing high damage numbers with dps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannelore.8153 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 > @"knite.1542" said: > > @"Hannelore.8153" said:You're > > My issue with DPS meters is they almost never take support into account. And I don't mean heals, I mean things like Aegis and Protection too. Without that, the game wil always shift back towards being DPS-centric as people get the illusion that support isn't needed, when in reality, support has carried this game since the beginning..its just that over time its changed shapes. > > > > If the meter shows everything, even things like reviving others, I would be 100% in favor of it. I would love for people to finally understand just how effective their allues are instead of just saying how trash they are all the time! > > https://dps.report/UYTP-20190807-204012_gors > > Here is an example of a dps report. It shows aegis, protection, and revives. Not only that but this 'lackluster at best' tool even gives you a replay of the fight including player position, skills used, boons, damage, and even more. You're replying to one person in a thread about an *in-house* DPS meter, with multiple people discussing ArcDPS.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knite.1542 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 > @"Hannelore.8153" said: > > @"knite.1542" said: > > > @"Hannelore.8153" said:You're > > > My issue with DPS meters is they almost never take support into account. And I don't mean heals, I mean things like Aegis and Protection too. Without that, the game wil always shift back towards being DPS-centric as people get the illusion that support isn't needed, when in reality, support has carried this game since the beginning..its just that over time its changed shapes. > > > > > > If the meter shows everything, even things like reviving others, I would be 100% in favor of it. I would love for people to finally understand just how effective their allues are instead of just saying how trash they are all the time! > > > > https://dps.report/UYTP-20190807-204012_gors > > > > Here is an example of a dps report. It shows aegis, protection, and revives. Not only that but this 'lackluster at best' tool even gives you a replay of the fight including player position, skills used, boons, damage, and even more. > > You're replying to one person in a thread about an *in-house* DPS meter, with multiple people discussing ArcDPS.. Indeed. Just wanted to correct your incorrect claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 > @"Tails.9372" said: > Also, iirc A-Net once said something like "the top players do ~10 times as much damage as the average casual". Well, how do you think they got these numbers if not for them already using DPS meters to monitor player performance? That was marketing talk without any kind of context. As for how they got the numbers, probably they guessed them. It's not hard to say "ten times the damage!", ten is very good number for such comparisons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > @"Tails.9372" said: > > Also, iirc A-Net once said something like "the top players do ~10 times as much damage as the average casual". Well, how do you think they got these numbers if not for them already using DPS meters to monitor player performance? > > That was marketing talk without any kind of context. As for how they got the numbers, probably they guessed them. It's not hard to say "ten times the damage!", ten is very good number for such comparisons. Sorry but no, you can rest assured they have internal metrics on everything. One can question the validity of the criteria used since we were not told that what constitutes a "top player" and what the rest, and for where this data might apply. But if the numbers where rounded, they would have rounded them in favor of the game and to be less divisive as much as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesione.9412 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > @"TwoGhosts.6790" said: > > Because we have a good one already. > The current third party solution does not even show outbound healing numbers. > How is this "a good one"? Plus, it doesn't show information like "damage prevented" due to another player's sand barrier, or reflect. Re healing, overhealing is hard to quantify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoGhosts.6790 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 > @"Lyttle.9426" said: > > @"TwoGhosts.6790" said: > > Because we have a good one already. > > > ArcDps limitations: > > *some things, in bold, because that makes them super important* I'm well aware of the limitations of arcDPS. I can read, and I visit deltconnected's page on a regular basis to check for updates - which he provides often, btw, and almost always within 24h of a gw2 patch... good luck with that if Anet ever makes and breaks their own version; we'll be waiting with broken shit forever, as always. And yes, I agree that one of the most frustrating limitations of arcDPS is the lack of heal monitoring, etc. That's a shame, but I would much, much rather live with those limitations than suffer the consequences of any trashy, ham-fisted attempt by Anet to monetise an in-house meter... which would probably have even more limitations than arcDPS anyway. And, apart from the lack of heal monitoring, if everyone who wants to is using the same meter (arc, for example, as they are rn), then it doesn't really matter if everyone's numbers are all equally fudged a bit... it's a useful tool, but mainly its a useful comparative, approximate tool, not an absolute one. It doesn't matter, as long as everyone is comparing the same data. So, no, it's limitations (notwithstanding the lack of heal monitoring) are not a justification to ask Anet to make an in-house one. Because I fear we might get what you wish for, and that it would be shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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