RedBaron.6058 Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 Actually, down state is a nice mechanic for PvE and PvP but I think that at least in WvW we should have no down state. Large zergs always rez their downies while the smaller side almost never do it. Make no down state permanent in WvW. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchonWing.9480 Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 I don't really care either way, but I find it funny that people can lose 3v1 but still say the 1 has no skill just because of no downstate lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antioche.7034 Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > > @"Antioche.7034" said: > > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > > > > @"Antioche.7034" said: > > > > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > > > > > > @"jsp.6912" said: > > > > > > i imagine this guy who thinks he is skilled because he played a glass canon build and os a guy during the no downstate event. > > > > > > > > > > He plays a warrior actually lmao I'm sure that doesn't change your mind at all though. > > > > > > > > > > Imagine defending a mechanic where you don't really die after you die ;) > > > > > > > > > > Also since February, specializing into glass cannon has had the worst return on investment of all time in GW2. No idea what you're complaining about. > > > > > > > > Imagine wanting downstate to be permanant, so that people are encouraged to play annoying and stupid glass-cannon builds or annoying and stupid bunker builds. Even if it's easy to counter or avoid it would still be incredibly stupid and boring. > > > > > > > > Maybe in WvW it has had the worst return on investment, and if that is the case, I see nothing wrong with it, aslong as it does not devolve into bunker meta. In sPvP though going full zerk has certainly had return on investment (See nades holo or reaper, Prev etc). > > > > > > 4/6 meta builds are Minstrel. It is too late to save the game from devolving into that, because when players go down their 3.5k armor buddies can pick them up and heal them to 100%, maybe even give full barrier and stealth. You say you dislike both high damage high risk builds and bunker builds, but you're clearly OK with letting one of those two run rampant. > > > > > > This is the WVW forums, save PVP problems for PVP. Did you figure maybe everyone is going full zerk because there's a lot less amulets to try these days? And because Marauder damage is garbage ever since February? We have to deal with this stat called TOUGHNESS in WVW. And these runes called DURABILITY. They're pretty annoying. > > > > > > > > > > So, basically you dislike bunkers, so you wish for no downstate, even though no downstate will lead to even more bunker builds ? Maybe for a week of no downstate most people don't bother to adapt, and you can surely farm all the people that are here to farm GoB because they jate WvW, but if you make no downstate permanant, what kind of builds do you think people will play ? Surely not stuff that can get oneshot by full zerker. > > Making no downstate permanant will only further the issue, IMO. > > > > Also I'm fine with high risks high rewards, aslong as it's really high risks high rewards and not low risks high rewards like that's often the case. > > The current meta is necros using ANY DPS stat they want, with every other class running Minstrel to support them. Are you saying we'll have Minstrel necros too? Do you see why you're wrong LMAO. Go play a full zerk build and post those results I'd love to see it. Because BTW, being one shot goes BOTH ways for those builds, they get one shot as well. Hopefully you dont find any Dragonhunters or Sic Em beasts ::disappointed: Yeah, every roamer is running minstrels atm, I trust you. And what do you want me to prove by playing full zerk ? That it's fun ? That it dies aswell ? Of course it dies (Except probably some thieves builds that can escape pretty well after having miserably failed), I never said the opposite anywhere, I don't know why you'd think I did. > @"ledernierrempart.6871" said: > > everytime someone say no downstate will increase bunker players i smile. because bunker meta is atm the most effective way. > with no downstate, killing a bunker will let him dead. with donwstate there is a chance for him to come abck, making the fight even more annoying. See up ^. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ubi.4136 Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 As much as a lot of us would like to see downstate removed, because it allows blobs to instantly res downed players, we know it isn't ever going to go away. No downstate week shows just how much certain groups rely on pure numbers to win fights, even though the enemy with fewer numbers is more skilled. The game would be better if skill was the determining factor, but that isn't what we have now. So, my suggestion is make ressing downed players a 1 for 1. Only 1 player can be ressing a downed player at a time. The same thing they did with rallying off of kills. Make it 1 for 1. It allows smaller groups the ability to skillfully dismantle a larger group, but it still allows for support and other traits to help get a teammate up. Also, it doesn't impact 1 on 1 fights, and allows for players to still have a use for traits and abilities that are affected by downstate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledernierrempart.6871 Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 and remove rally bot completely. and nerf downstate auto attack damage. and normalize downstate health for all class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilora.9524 Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 No you are not more skilled if you need things removed to win. You adjust to all aspects if you are skilled. I'm fine w the suggestion 1 for 1 but this I'm more skilled then everyone it's just ds holding me back I can't stand reading everytime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 It's not "another" suggestion. It's the same suggestion we've been saying for years. **1:1 ressing and no rally solves every major issue with downstate while otherwise keeping the core gameplay mechanic of downstate fully intact.** The rest is minor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caedmon.6798 Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 The most obvious nerf downed state needs in wvw is how people are able to go down 4x in a row. Change this to going down 1x but the next time youre full dead. Downed state is Really too much of a carry in lots of fights,mostly noticable in roaming. The no downed state week highlighted this fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledernierrempart.6871 Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 what about group of thieves rezing each other while stealthed everytime one get downed? how do you tackle that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 > @"Caedmon.6798" said: > The most obvious nerf downed state needs in wvw is how people are able to go down 4x in a row. Change this to going down 1x but the next time youre full dead. Downed state is Really too much of a carry in lots of fights,mostly noticable in roaming. The no downed state week highlighted this fact. Ha, no. That is a minor issue thats 9 out of 10 times caused by either of the major issues - he rallies too often because people are bouncing up and and down in a zerg fight, or in a smaller fight he's getting constantly rubbed by multiple people so he's hard to get stomped. I'm not against nerfing (my idea is 3 times the charm, cutting it down to just 66%, 33%, dead with a 3+ minute timer) but its definetly not the most obvious nerf needed. > @"ledernierrempart.6871" said: > what about group of thieves rezing each other while stealthed everytime one get downed? how do you tackle that? With AoE and CC? You run away and ignore them because they're gonna be terrible at fighting any similarly sized random group with even more AoE and CC? There is only one thing I would change in relation to this and thats not specific to thieves - getting downed removes stealth already on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug.4930 Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 > @"Jilora.9524" said: > No you are not more skilled if you need things removed to win. You adjust to all aspects if you are skilled. I'm fine w the suggestion 1 for 1 but this I'm more skilled then everyone it's just ds holding me back I can't stand reading everytime. But I mean it is sort of based on truth. Downstate does give the larger group a colossal advantage. No downstate weeks showed us just how much more vulnerable blobers are without it. Now that downstate is back I see the exact same group of players we demolished during no downstate week being essentially untouchable in the same match up of us vs them solely because of downstate. Downstate as it is now does hold back smaller more skilled/coordinated players from defeating larger less organised ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledernierrempart.6871 Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > With AoE and CC? You run away and ignore them because they're gonna be terrible at fighting any similarly sized random group with even more AoE and CC? There is only one thing I would change in relation to this and thats not specific to thieves - getting downed removes stealth already on you. what if i want to roam? or hunt? i am sorry but bus play isn't very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledernierrempart.6871 Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 ■ necro DPS when downed. ■ group of thieves reviving their downed all stealthed. ■ instant revive several time in a row. ■ rally bot. ■ downed (ranger) underwater. ■ being jumping on and sieged on while getting downed and being forced to watch it all. ■ (elem) revive ability doesn't show any effect on the ground (except ranger since it is the pet or engi since it is the gyro or grenade). you don't know who is going to be revived. ■ sudden +1 that deny your stomp on someone you downed, at the last moment from nowhere. ■ special bunker revive build guard. ■ downed getting revived faster than you can stomp him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 This is more like a list of things you’ve yet to learn about playing the game. No downstate exposes all the bad players that can’t assess complex game mechanics and interactions. You walk into WvW and complain about getting +1’d? That’s your fault because you should have prepared not just your build, but yourself for fighting outnumbered in a game mode that is open world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug.4930 Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 > @"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" said: > No downstate exposes all the bad players that can’t assess complex game mechanics and interactions. That's right it certainly did expose all the bad players who can only ever win fights by outnumbering the enemy. > You walk into WvW and complain about getting +1’d? That’s your fault because you should have prepared not just your build, but yourself for fighting outnumbered in a game mode that is open world. I think he may have walked into WvW and asked why there's a mechanic that encourages people to blob up and actively discourages trying to assess complex game mechanics and interactions to win fights. After all why bother doing any of that when you can just ball and outnumber your enemy, throw in downstate and minstrel supports and congrats you've won the game. Funnily enough, I wish no downstate week never happened. I feel like a gold fish that's lived its entire life in a small glass bowl who got to experience the ocean for a week. Now I'm back in my glass bowl, ignorance was bliss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suraci.1642 Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 > @"Hannelore.8153" said: > There's already like a half dozen threads on this subject. Including all these arguments being shot down, repeatedly. > > The consensus I see the most is that no downstate actually carries bad builds because it favors quickly defeating players and not having to come up with any kind of strategy for dealing with them once they're downed. It made going "all in" alot less risky because there's less chance of failure since you need to do significantly less damage and use less tactics overall. > > Downstate is, among other things, part of a player's effective health and affects cooldown management. * I wouldn't consider builds that can quickly defeat players bad builds, if its 1 on 1, once you are downed you are done, the same I could say for all you people that want downed state to stay, you could abuse all the "bad builds" that you so called, run heavy burst builds and still have allies to back you up since you outnumbered the opponents and turbo ressing all the players with "good builds" on the ground. * If you are skilled (or dont have "bad builds") you wouldnt die in the first place and therefore no need of downed state, downed state is the easy mode for all those that want to stick with big zerg and expect to get carried once they get smashed, with no-downed state even if in a big zerg you have to worry about your gear(tanky enough to survive 1 shot burst?), skill rotation( block, evade, invul, protection, dmg and condi mitigation skills up time), positioning (no ressing so have to stay in bubbles or behind reflect walls, line of sight to avoid projectiles, with downedstate I can just run around all willy nilly, run zerk gear tank gear doesnt matter because there is always like 50 people ready to pick me up, no matter how many mistakes I made in that fight and how many times I got knocked down I would still get back up, how hard is that to do? * Then again dont call builds that killed you many times, annoyed tf out of you, smacked you and your zerg up and down bad builds because they are clearly effective and caused severe emotional damage for people to hate these builds that much, you cant blame anyone but yourselves to fall prey to these builds, if you are indeed having a good build, why are you dying and why are you on the floor in need of downed state??? obviously contradicting yourself. * Finally, "use less tactics overall", as if lying on the floor has more tactics involved? and "less risky", I think having another healthbar and can be ressed back up to full also be less risky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledernierrempart.6871 Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 > @"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" said: > This is more like a list of things you’ve yet to learn about playing the game. > > No downstate exposes all the bad players that can’t assess complex game mechanics and interactions. > > You walk into WvW and complain about getting +1’d? That’s your fault because you should have prepared not just your build, but yourself for fighting outnumbered in a game mode that is open world. how does getting better at the game will change the unfairness and frustration of what i have listed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilora.9524 Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 Don't worry in 2 more years there will be another no down state event where thiefs and ranger types played by average players will think they are skilled pew pewing from a tower or stealthing into a pack of 3 and quickly killing a necro and mobilty away. DS is an intregal part of the game and no ds events account for 2/416 weeks so easy to list all this issues after a week of no ds with no replacement to the skills or traits that players can use relating to ds then go but I was a beast no ds week now I have all these issues when it's gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 > @"Suraci.1642" said: > * If you are skilled (or dont have "bad builds") you wouldnt die in the first place and therefore no need of downed state Also if you are skilled (or dont have "bad builds") you would be capable of fully killing someone in downed state hence no need to be concerned about it being there. It's just going around in circles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilora.9524 Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > @"Suraci.1642" said: > > * If you are skilled (or dont have "bad builds") you wouldnt die in the first place and therefore no need of downed state > Also if you are skilled (or dont have "bad builds") you would be capable of fully killing someone in downed state hence no need to be concerned about it being there. > > It's just going around in circles. Just give up. They are more skilled during no ds and we are more skilled during the 99 percent of the times there is no event Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shining One.1635 Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 While I enjoy the periodic no downstate events, I'd hate to see it go away or get changed too much. I've won many outnumbered fights over the years thanks to downstate, the best one involving knocking someone off a cliff in a 1 v 4, getting downed by the remaining 3, and rallying when the one I knocked off hit the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpsssss.7530 Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 I'd honestly agree, but the number of commanders that baby rage and go silent when they die instead of still issuing instructions is insane. I'd rather have the enemy be able to power res than have my commander be useless more often than not. Granted that's an issue with players, but its something I've noticed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeepBoopBop.5403 Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > @"Suraci.1642" said: > > * If you are skilled (or dont have "bad builds") you wouldnt die in the first place and therefore no need of downed state > Also if you are skilled (or dont have "bad builds") you would be capable of fully killing someone in downed state hence no need to be concerned about it being there. > > It's just going around in circles. Having to jump extra hurdles while also being outnumbered is not fair lmao. The 'get good' does not apply, no matter how hard you want it to apply to the already disadvantaged side for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeepBoopBop.5403 Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 > @"Jilora.9524" said: > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > > @"Suraci.1642" said: > > > * If you are skilled (or dont have "bad builds") you wouldnt die in the first place and therefore no need of downed state > > Also if you are skilled (or dont have "bad builds") you would be capable of fully killing someone in downed state hence no need to be concerned about it being there. > > > > It's just going around in circles. > > Just give up. They are more skilled during no ds and we are more skilled during the 99 percent of the times there is no event The skilled tactic of letting your HP get to 0 and going to down state ;) show me more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilora.9524 Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > > @"Jilora.9524" said: > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > > > @"Suraci.1642" said: > > > > * If you are skilled (or dont have "bad builds") you wouldnt die in the first place and therefore no need of downed state > > > Also if you are skilled (or dont have "bad builds") you would be capable of fully killing someone in downed state hence no need to be concerned about it being there. > > > > > > It's just going around in circles. > > > > Just give up. They are more skilled during no ds and we are more skilled during the 99 percent of the times there is no event > > The skilled tactic of letting your HP get to 0 and going to down state ;) show me more Oh you again. It doesn't matter 1 v 1 now does it? Only when you think you should be able to jump into a 1 v 3 and should get a kill right by skipping half the process. Obviously getting HP to zero and downed state was not the "skill" I was referring too. The skill of being able to secure kills the rest of the time with ds active is the skill. Because downed is not dead no matter how many times you think you won a fight because you downed someone. I obviously can down and finish the kill where you run off after downing someone thus I am more skilled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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