A fix for the AFK farmers for good.

[Ototo.3214]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > @"Ototo.3214" said:

> > Could also make it so pet damage doesn't count for kill credit. If just the pet is attacking, they don't get anything. Wont stop people from making some sort of macro to skill spam automatically but still, would help.

>

> As a ranger main, I completely disagree with this idea.

 

And as a ranger main, I still make the suggestion. Make it so if you also contribute, then fine, it counts. But if you're just sitting there afk with your pet as the only thing attacking, then no.

[kharmin.7683]

> @"Ototo.3214" said:

> > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > @"Ototo.3214" said:

> > > Could also make it so pet damage doesn't count for kill credit. If just the pet is attacking, they don't get anything. Wont stop people from making some sort of macro to skill spam automatically but still, would help.

> >

> > As a ranger main, I completely disagree with this idea.

>

> And as a ranger main, I still make the suggestion. Make it so if you also contribute, then fine, it counts. But if you're just sitting there afk with your pet as the only thing attacking, then no.

 

And how would the game know? Does development time and resources really need to go to this when there is no real in-game problem to solve? AFK farming is only violating rules if/when Anet says that it is; otherwise, the game is working as intended and developed.

 

Also, coding for this wouldn't solve the perceived AFK issue with other professions. Yet more time/resources would have to be spent there and for what?

[Sinful Mustache.3589]

There are not so much places in Tyria where farmers stay. All places are known.

How do you like afk farming in Istan with a commander tag and 15 engis around?

I personally feel that like an implicit statement from anet "we dont give an F about afk farmers"

 

As a programmer i can assure you. It is incredibly simple to code a keystroking and mouse pressing bot for afk farming.

You can never detect it by simple analysis of input and skill / moving activity.

 

This is **NOT** a commercial, i hate RMT. And there are easy ways to solve the task

1. Actually ban the reported obvious farmers for good

2. Reduce the amount of mobs spawning in certain well-known locations and increase respawn timers to make farm inefficient

No need to change game mechanics

[Goettel.4389]

I fixed it for myself by not caring

[kharmin.7683]

> @"Sinful Mustache.3589" said:

> This is **NOT** a commercial, i hate RMT. And there are easy ways to solve the task

> 1. Actually ban the reported obvious farmers for good

The problem here is that Anet never divulges actions taken. We can only assume that these farmers, when reported, do answer to a GM when they are checked and if so, then they are not violating the ToS. However, I agree with the sentiment that if Anet finds actual AFK farmers, then they should be banned.

> 2. Reduce the amount of mobs spawning in certain well-known locations and increase respawn timers to make farm inefficient

This would serve to move the farmers from location to location. Otherwise, I have no problem with this solution other than some areas are farmed where kills are needed to complete heart quests. Reducing spawn times might make completing things more difficult?

 

 

 

[Sinful Mustache.3589]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> This would serve to move the farmers from location to location. Otherwise, I have no problem with this solution other than some areas are farmed where kills are needed to complete heart quests. Reducing spawn times might make completing things more difficult?

 

I personally know at least 3 places where amount of mobs is waaay too big and they respawn waaaay too frequently.

Therefore it makes such places ideal for farmers. None of those places are needed for any hearts or quests.

May be there are more places which i dont know about, as I havent completed the story line yet and didnt explore all maps

[Ototo.3214]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > @"Ototo.3214" said:

> > > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > > @"Ototo.3214" said:

> > > > Could also make it so pet damage doesn't count for kill credit. If just the pet is attacking, they don't get anything. Wont stop people from making some sort of macro to skill spam automatically but still, would help.

> > >

> > > As a ranger main, I completely disagree with this idea.

> >

> > And as a ranger main, I still make the suggestion. Make it so if you also contribute, then fine, it counts. But if you're just sitting there afk with your pet as the only thing attacking, then no.

>

> And how would the game know? Does development time and resources really need to go to this when there is no real in-game problem to solve? AFK farming is only violating rules if/when Anet says that it is; otherwise, the game is working as intended and developed.

>

> Also, coding for this wouldn't solve the perceived AFK issue with other professions. Yet more time/resources would have to be spent there and for what?

 

Then just make it always boot to character select if no keyboard input is made after a set period of time. Afk farming can cause real issues for other players if enough people are abusing it. Back when the engine farm in Lake Doric was a thing, it was impossible to find an instance of the map where everyone wasn't afk farming, making it near impossible to complete other big events that require more people. I basically gave up on trying for achievements at that time because of it. Or even drizzlewood initially, had a bunch of people afking the beginning for free participation and rewards. Instances can be full and I'd prefer they be filled with contributingly players and not freeloaders personally.

 

And sure, those were just bigger instances of it, and your random necro sitting there around a bunch of ibogas isn't necessarily bothering anyone. But in my opinion at least, it shouldn't even be possible within the confines of the game itself to get credit for things without doing anything for it.

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

**Why do people bother about this, why do they care? Let the farmers farm and mind your own business!**

Every map which has a meta-event chain, which is literally every non-city map in the entire game, shares the same problem: player capacity. AFK farming on an empty, dead map is totally fine - if ANet promotes it, go for it. But if you happen to pull that trick on a map with an active meta-event and the player capacity is reached, you begin to ponder if this is really a good thing. Especially if you have a squad open and people complain your map is full. On the other hand you see those AFK farmers which contribute nothing to the meta-progression. That problem also exists for casual roamers and explorers, but even they are more likely to eventually join the cause. Those AFKers however will not move an inch in the next hour(s), guaranteed.

 

And now we can take a little look on Drizzlewood Coast. One of the common strategies at the moment is to farm the 200 % participation, then go AFK until the phase starts you are interested in. On the other hand desperate commanders and mentors struggle to get the camps up for the south meta, let alone defending the owned ones. But the AFKers got their free lot, that is all that matters. That poor soul who tries to complete the meta-chain in order to get the north-meta started, should have gone AFK as well?

 

This situation is not ok. Pure ignorance will definitely not solve it. The later it is taken care of, the more difficult it will be to find a solution that harms as less players as possible. When GW2 will be on steam, our player-base will definitely increase and the problem with map-capacity will be even more present.

[Parasite.5389]

> @"Smoosh.2718" said:

> **What I propose:**

>

> All summons have a 60-120 minute timer before they are removed from the world and need to be resummoned, Turrets, pets, minions.

> Auto-cast to be removed from all skills apart from skill 1. (skill 1 has to be repressed manually to attack a new target and will not keep going off when left alone).

 

it wouldn't work, all you'd need to do is add a couple of extra lines of code to resummon after a set amount of time; and removing auto-cast from all but skill one would break any build that has an auto-cast on other skills and negatively impact legitimate players.

 

 

[Super Hayes.6890]

I would like to see a dragon minion swoop down from the sky and snatch up players that stand in one place too long. This would be so funny to see happen and may even help with the AFK farming issue. I don't really have issue with these player unless they are actually violating game rules. If they want to hang in one place and let thier minions kill the same creature over and over then let them.

[BunjiKugashira.9754]

The problem is that "afk" farmers aren't really afk. I remember the engineer farm at lake doric. Turrets self-destruct after 5 minutes. Yet engineers always had their turrets up. They even put different turrets in different spots, so there was some walking involved. So a timer of 60-120 minutes would do nothing.

 

What I would like to see (simply because it would be funny) is if a person kills a certain number of mobs without moving at all and doesn't move for at least a minute, they spawn a champion (that doesn't drop loot). Doesn't matter where a new afk farm spot pops up, afk farmers would destroy the farm spot themselves.

[Infusion.7149]

I'd rather they revise the report system because it clearly isn't worthwhile for them to have manual monitoring. Maybe have a Turing test (basically captcha or easy random math question) whenever someone isn't moving and just autocasting and if failing it it should just kick you out of the game. That way the worst that can happen is that someone who isn't a bot gets kicked from openworld (not a big deal really). Having a Turing test also allows extra data to filter through such that actual players would not be flagged.

 

That sort of system could also be used in PVP. In case you weren't aware, the botting exists there also and unlike in PVE it actually affects the play experience of others.

 

> @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> Summons should be invincible, do no damage, but function like one wolf pack. You press their utility/pet action button(if ranger), they "attack" through you the next time you land an attack.

 

You're naive if you think people won't change their botting systems to work around this.

 

> @"Ototo.3214" said:

> Then just make it always boot to character select if no keyboard input is made after a set period of time. Afk farming can cause real issues for other players if enough people are abusing it. Back when the engine farm in Lake Doric was a thing, it was impossible to find an instance of the map where everyone wasn't afk farming, making it near impossible to complete other big events that require more people. I basically gave up on trying for achievements at that time because of it. Or even drizzlewood initially, had a bunch of people afking the beginning for free participation and rewards. Instances can be full and I'd prefer they be filled with contributingly players and not freeloaders personally.

>

> And sure, those were just bigger instances of it, and your random necro sitting there around a bunch of ibogas isn't necessarily bothering anyone. But in my opinion at least, it shouldn't even be possible within the confines of the game itself to get credit for things without doing anything for it.

 

If someone isn't outright botting and just putting a paperweight or some sort of tape on their keyboard to hold a key down, it literally makes your suggestion not workable.

[Mewcifer.5198]

Threads like these remind me of the times people would whisper me in game because they thought I was botting just because I was lazily doing a renown heart by putting down turrets and then casually chatting in guild chat.

[Asum.4960]

> @"Smoosh.2718" said:

> Got an idea that might fix the issue of afk farmers for good, make all summons have a timer 60-120 minutes before you MUST respawn it, this way if a player is found farming constantly or for long periods of timing without movement or then that player must be using macro's to farm.

>

> Another factor to consider, the removal of recasting other abilities (make 1 the ONLY skill you can recast).

>

> AFK play should never be encouraged and more actions need to be done to combat it, the removal of the recast function would work for the Reaper 4 afk farmers and the change in minion/summon times would also prevent players from reaping rewards while afk for long periods of time. (this would need to apply to ranger pets as well).

>

>

> **What I propose:**

>

> All summons have a 60-120 minute timer before they are removed from the world and need to be resummoned, Turrets, pets, minions.

> Auto-cast to be removed from all skills apart from skill 1. (skill 1 has to be repressed manually to attack a new target and will not keep going off when left alone).

>

>

> These two actions should kill AFK farmers for good. (if players are skill doing this after the change then you can guarentee they are using a macro to farm and that is against the ToS).

 

I don't think punishing/limiting legitimate players to combat exploiters is ever a good idea, especially if the impact for legitimate players is greater than that to the exploiters.

Engineer Turrets however in fact already self-destruct after 5 minutes and are still frequently used to AFK farm with macros or by not really being afk.

 

Skills (like GS 4) can be repeatedly cast by weighting down a button, there is no need to limit autoattack to only being able to be set to 1.

Everything afk farming with multiple skills in usage already is using macros.

 

Basically, AFK farmers either aren't AFK or they are already using Macros and wouldn't be affected by your proposed changes.

Plus there already is an automatic inactivity kick timer for those who are truly just AFK/have a button weighted down.

[Smoosh.2718]

The main issue I have with afk farming is that it sets a very bad image on the game. As players spend more time afk farming, they spend less time actually playing the game. they clog up maps for others to join in on and send out a message that botting is ok.

 

This method would allow bot detection to become so much easier for Anet investigations, since you need new inputs for every skill and resummon every hour to two hours, so the players still doing this over long periods of time have a high chance of actually using macro's. The game should encourgage active play and never passive afk play.

 

 

As stated the biggest issue I have with this is image. It is such a shame to see so many people afk farming which reaks of the old school mmo's filled with chinese money farm bots to make IRL money. It will send out a bad image to new players.... and to some it will send them the message that its ok to hack and cheat.

 

This method would stop a lot of current players from afk farming and leave the real bots in the spot.. ripe for the banning.

 

 

[Sinful Mustache.3589]

I would agree on bad influence afkers do to game image. Go to Istan caverns and find there 20 afkers (bots?) at once.

Looks really not healthy. Yeah, why play actively, why put efforts when you can safely afk and gain profit?

Do they RMT or not? I dont know. But they for sure encourage others to do the same.

 

Again, the simplest way to solve this task is curing the **root cause** of illness - spots of excessive mob amount.

Reduce the mob amount, increase respawn timers in certain areas. Make afk farm simply inefficient. Thats it.

No pushing lazy farmers, no bans, no mechanics change involved.

 

You can find many such threads on forum since 2018, but nothing changes.

Anet doesnt care, i presume. Though solution would be so simple

[Mewcifer.5198]

Things to keep in mind about creating solutions for these types of problems:

A solution to botters should not be done in any way that could potentially negatively impact the gameplay of people who are not botting. You do not sacrifice the enjoyment of legitimate players just to punish people doing something wrong unless it is a very big issue. (And personally, I think afk botters should be a very very small concern, they do not make very much money. Actively playing the game will always net way better rewards than sitting in one place killing trash mobs)

[miraude.2107]

> @"Yellow Rainbow.6142" said:

> Why does it bother people so much? Just play your game and let them do whatever they want. It's a game, and anet is okay with it.

 

ESO used to have that stance, until the amount of afk farmers at the dolmens caused such lag and the people actually trying to do them weren't getting hits in. I still have screenshots on an old flashdrive where i individually counted 50 afk farmers to the 15 people trying to do the dolmen event. Zenimax solved it by electrifying them for standing still.

And the reason it became that bad was because of this attitude. It basically became a 'well they are doing it and not getting in trouble so i'll do it too'. Guild Wars 2 is snow coming to steam. The core game is FREE TO PLAY. If they don't do anything now about curbing afk farmers or put an actual firm stance on it, it will get worse because if they can do it, I can do it too. There are some story events that are open world that I can see becoming frustrating to do. The mordrem in Iron Marches being one of them.

 

There's also the smaller things that afk farmers can effect like the prices for goods in the trading post, etc. Now imagine that combined with the slew of afk farmers that will arrive with steam (there's a market for selling steam accounts) or if arenanet does what every other game does and adds steam cards. In the end, it all adds up. Lag from too many players, unable to complete prior events because they scale, and other small things that will eventually cascade into larger problems (oh god I just remembered the invasions in the starting zones :# ).

 

Also, just play your game and let them do whatever they want can have a cascading effect. Well they let me afk farm in open world, I'll do it in fractals too and just auto-attack while following the group. MMO players are like toddlers, we will sit there and push and push and push until the devs say stop that! However if the devs put something in place, like say an unkillable NPC killing you after sitting still for 30 minutes in open world, they'll adapt to either changing maps for every 30 minutes or realize maybe they should just play the game.

[Ubi.4136]

Or, Anet could just make an elite vinetooth spawn to attack the player if they haven't moved in 10 minutes. Real players will easily beat the encounter, but the AFK macro bots would be killed. Problem solved.

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

> @"Ubi.4136" said:

> Or, Anet could just make an elite vinetooth spawn to attack the player if they haven't moved in 10 minutes. Real players will easily beat the encounter, but the AFK macro bots would be killed. Problem solved.

 

That should be interesting at World Boss events with all the people who are afk until it’s time for the event to start.

[Witch of Doom.5739]

I just play and don't waste time thinking about people I'm not playing with or ones that aren't bothering me.

[Zephire.8049]

> @"Yellow Rainbow.6142" said:

> Why does it bother people so much? Just play your game and let them do whatever they want. It's a game, and anet is okay with it.

 

Exactly. AFK farming doesn't even bring in nearly the same amount of gold that, say, doing RIBA or Drizzlewood does so the impact to the economy is minimal and I could see Anet actually accounting for AFK farmers to bring in T3 and T4 mats to keep the price of those low. AFK farmers aren't a pretty sight but unless you're doing a heart or event where they are, they don't affect nearly as much as people think they do. And I'd rather contend with them than people who get a kick out of killing mobs before anyone else can tag them.

 

(And before anyone accuses me of being an AFK farmer, I actually report them when I see them. I just don't work myself up about it because at that point it's in Anet's hands and either they'll do something or won't and I'm not going to try to moderate their game for them.)

[Smoosh.2718]

The mobs here appear to respawn every 40s. these mobs drop 1 silver 4 magic and chance for T6 materials. Aproximately 7 mobs spawn on this spot providing the player with 7s + 28 magic and potentially 91s in T6.

 

Over the course of 60m this player who has not touched his keyboard has now earnt the following:

1.05g Silver from raw gold drops

420 magic

X amount of karma

X amount of spirit shards

Up to 13.6g from T6 drops

 

So if said player stays an entire night without playing and farms this same spot all night long for 10 hours.. you can see a problem. By allowing this you are allowing other companies/players to exploit this opotunity and create farming accounts.

 

Don't picture this as a long term player, picture this as a NEW player. What impression does it give you when you run into a blob of players like this?

Bots? Dead support system? RTM ("Oh i can buy gold with real money from gold sellers?!")? Cheating is ok? Using bots to play is ok? ITs a mobile like game designed to be played by not playing?

 

Picture that you are going into this area for the first time and running into this:


 

 

 

Rewards from 1 Fanged Iboga:


 

[Linken.6345]

> @"Smoosh.2718" said:

> The mobs here appear to respawn every 40s. these mobs drop 1 silver 4 magic and chance for T6 materials. Aproximately 7 mobs spawn on this spot providing the player with 7s + 28 magic and potentially 91s in T6.

>

> Over the course of 60m this player who has not touched his keyboard has now earnt the following:

> 1.05g Silver from raw gold drops

> 420 magic

> X amount of karma

> X amount of spirit shards

> Up to 13.6g from T6 drops

>

> So if said player stays an entire night without playing and farms this same spot all night long for 10 hours.. you can see a problem. By allowing this you are allowing other companies/players to exploit this opotunity and create farming accounts.

>

> Don't picture this as a long term player, picture this as a NEW player. What impression does it give you when you run into a blob of players like this?

> Bots? Dead support system? RTM ("Oh i can buy gold with real money from gold sellers?!")? Cheating is ok? Using bots to play is ok? ITs a mobile like game designed to be played by not playing?

>

> Picture that you are going into this area for the first time and running into this:

> 

>

>

>

> Rewards from 1 Fanged Iboga:

> 

>

 

I never even been to that spot I get the poi and move away to next place for my map completion.

Witch is probably why the bots hide over there, so I doubt new players will even notice that particular spot.

[Astyrah.4015]

> @"Linken.6345" said:

> > @"Smoosh.2718" said:

> > The mobs here appear to respawn every 40s. these mobs drop 1 silver 4 magic and chance for T6 materials. Aproximately 7 mobs spawn on this spot providing the player with 7s + 28 magic and potentially 91s in T6.

> >

> > Over the course of 60m this player who has not touched his keyboard has now earnt the following:

> > 1.05g Silver from raw gold drops

> > 420 magic

> > X amount of karma

> > X amount of spirit shards

> > Up to 13.6g from T6 drops

> >

> > So if said player stays an entire night without playing and farms this same spot all night long for 10 hours.. you can see a problem. By allowing this you are allowing other companies/players to exploit this opotunity and create farming accounts.

> >

> > Don't picture this as a long term player, picture this as a NEW player. What impression does it give you when you run into a blob of players like this?

> > Bots? Dead support system? RTM ("Oh i can buy gold with real money from gold sellers?!")? Cheating is ok? Using bots to play is ok? ITs a mobile like game designed to be played by not playing?

> >

> > Picture that you are going into this area for the first time and running into this:

> > 

> >

> >

> >

> > Rewards from 1 Fanged Iboga:

> > 

> >

>

> I never even been to that spot I get the poi and move away to next place for my map completion.

> Witch is probably why the bots hide over there, so I doubt new players will even notice that particular spot.

 

newer/steam players wouldn't even be in season 4 istan right away (atleast not for like 1~3 weeks to a few months assuming they'll buy season 4 for the story, which they'll want to do in the proper order and not just for the meta events or mounts) at the very least they might jump into drizzlewood coast right away from level 80 or whatever the new map is if a new episode is out by then.