Obtena.7952 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > Hey ... you know what the answer is? Choose another profession! That's not just being glib either. That's the reason other classes exist. > > > > > > > > > > > > The real interesting question is how they will continually create especs in this limited class mechanic. > > > > > > > > > > And most have the only way to balances ele is .... > > > > > > > > Stop there ... we aren't talking about balance here. If someone doesn't like how a class mechanic works, that's not a problem that is fixed by Anet changing how that mechanic works and it has no relation to how it's balanced. It's fixed by people choosing a class that has a mechanic they do like. This is literally the reason we have 9 classes with unique mechanics. > > > > > > > > Someone thinks swap mechanics for core ele is not that great a mechanic? OK ... find a class that has a great mechanic and play it. I mean, let's not pretend 'bad class mechanic' is some justification to get Anet to focus on ele with the hope they improve it's balance. If you have a beef with balance on ele, then don't assume changing class mechanic addresses that. > > > > > > Most classes NEED a class mechanic to be balanced. > > > > OK ... but that's not the OP's complaint. OP believes swapping elements isn't a proper mechanic for ele. That's not a balance issue and the answer to that is to choose a profession with a 'proper' mechanic he liks. > > > > I get it ... you want to talk about balance ... OK, but just not here. > > > > > > And the amount of variation between the skills of each atument is not enofe to call a true mechanic. You're going to have to explain yourself here ... the variation between the element skills are certainly different enough to make people choose them for specific things they want to do ... yet somehow allowing people to swap those elements to react to the situation they are in isn't 'true' as a mechanic? That doesn't make sense. Reacting to a situation by swapping element to access tools you need is just as much a true mechanic as any other in this game. If anything, swapping to a different 'mode' is a VERY common mechanic for many classes in this game ... and that's not a balancing issue at all. This is simply about people not liking it. If you don't like 'swapping' as a mechanic, choose a class that doesn't do it. I mean, the whole discussion is moot anyways ... do you think we prove the mechanic isn't true, Anet is going to just create a whole new one or something? Not a chance. Seems to me this is just a bad attempt to get Anet to focus on changing the class mechanic and hoping whatever the change is, it affects balance for it in a positive way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > Hey ... you know what the answer is? Choose another profession! That's not just being glib either. That's the reason other classes exist. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The real interesting question is how they will continually create especs in this limited class mechanic. > > > > > > > > > > > > And most have the only way to balances ele is .... > > > > > > > > > > Stop there ... we aren't talking about balance here. If someone doesn't like how a class mechanic works, that's not a problem that is fixed by Anet changing how that mechanic works and it has no relation to how it's balanced. It's fixed by people choosing a class that has a mechanic they do like. This is literally the reason we have 9 classes with unique mechanics. > > > > > > > > > > Someone thinks swap mechanics for core ele is not that great a mechanic? OK ... find a class that has a great mechanic and play it. I mean, let's not pretend 'bad class mechanic' is some justification to get Anet to focus on ele with the hope they improve it's balance. If you have a beef with balance on ele, then don't assume changing class mechanic addresses that. > > > > > > > > Most classes NEED a class mechanic to be balanced. > > > > > > OK ... but that's not the OP's complaint. OP believes swapping elements isn't a proper mechanic for ele. That's not a balance issue and the answer to that is to choose a profession with a 'proper' mechanic he liks. > > > > > > I get it ... you want to talk about balance ... OK, but just not here. > > > > > > > > > > And the amount of variation between the skills of each atument is not enofe to call a true mechanic. > > You're going to have to explain yourself here ... the variation between the element skills are certainly different enough to make people choose them for specific things they want to do ... yet somehow allowing people to swap those elements to react to the situation they are in isn't 'true' as a mechanic? That doesn't make sense. Reacting to a situation by swapping element to access tools you need is just as much a true mechanic as any other in this game. If anything, swapping to a different 'mode' is a VERY common mechanic for many classes in this game ... and that's not a balancing issue at all. This is simply about people not liking it. If you don't like 'swapping' as a mechanic, choose a class that doesn't do it. > > I mean, the whole discussion is moot anyways ... do you think we prove the mechanic isn't true, Anet is going to just create a whole new one or something? Not a chance. Seems to me this is just a bad attempt to get Anet to focus on changing the class mechanic and hoping whatever the change is, it affects balance for it in a positive way. > Its like saying wepon swap of say war is an class only mechanic. Staff has 4 "fire balls" 4 "small aoe hits" 4 "utility" and 4 "big aoe" dagger the same way the atument in effect dose not play enofe roll in the class use of the wepon BUT the wepon it self plays a bigger roll in the class. Making atuments less of a mechanic then the wepon you chose to use. Its not moot at all core ele is missing effects and it needs a massive rework as a class. Its only getting worst with EoD as anet nerfs core classes to make sure the elite spec work right over and over. We as a ele community need to keep pointing this out and stop apologizing for anet bad judgment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > Hey ... you know what the answer is? Choose another profession! That's not just being glib either. That's the reason other classes exist. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The real interesting question is how they will continually create especs in this limited class mechanic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And most have the only way to balances ele is .... > > > > > > > > > > > > Stop there ... we aren't talking about balance here. If someone doesn't like how a class mechanic works, that's not a problem that is fixed by Anet changing how that mechanic works and it has no relation to how it's balanced. It's fixed by people choosing a class that has a mechanic they do like. This is literally the reason we have 9 classes with unique mechanics. > > > > > > > > > > > > Someone thinks swap mechanics for core ele is not that great a mechanic? OK ... find a class that has a great mechanic and play it. I mean, let's not pretend 'bad class mechanic' is some justification to get Anet to focus on ele with the hope they improve it's balance. If you have a beef with balance on ele, then don't assume changing class mechanic addresses that. > > > > > > > > > > Most classes NEED a class mechanic to be balanced. > > > > > > > > OK ... but that's not the OP's complaint. OP believes swapping elements isn't a proper mechanic for ele. That's not a balance issue and the answer to that is to choose a profession with a 'proper' mechanic he liks. > > > > > > > > I get it ... you want to talk about balance ... OK, but just not here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the amount of variation between the skills of each atument is not enofe to call a true mechanic. > > > > You're going to have to explain yourself here ... the variation between the element skills are certainly different enough to make people choose them for specific things they want to do ... yet somehow allowing people to swap those elements to react to the situation they are in isn't 'true' as a mechanic? That doesn't make sense. Reacting to a situation by swapping element to access tools you need is just as much a true mechanic as any other in this game. If anything, swapping to a different 'mode' is a VERY common mechanic for many classes in this game ... and that's not a balancing issue at all. This is simply about people not liking it. If you don't like 'swapping' as a mechanic, choose a class that doesn't do it. > > > > I mean, the whole discussion is moot anyways ... do you think we prove the mechanic isn't true, Anet is going to just create a whole new one or something? Not a chance. Seems to me this is just a bad attempt to get Anet to focus on changing the class mechanic and hoping whatever the change is, it affects balance for it in a positive way. > > > > Its like saying wepon swap of say war is an class only mechanic. Staff has 4 "fire balls" 4 "small aoe hits" 4 "utility" and 4 "big aoe" dagger the same way the atument in effect dose not play enofe roll in the class use of the wepon BUT the wepon it self plays a bigger roll in the class. Making atuments less of a mechanic then the wepon you chose to use. I'm not going to argue about your comparisons ... they don't make what I said ANY less true. Just because there are other things in the game you can swap doesn't make element swapping not true as a class mechanic. Swapping element to access tools you need to react to whatever situation you are in is just as much a true mechanic as any other class mechanic in this game, especially since the 'swapping' concept is common mechanic many classes have. If 'swapping' is a mechanic you feel is deficient that makes the class you play not enjoyable, then pick your classes better. Chance that Anet reworks the whole elementalist mechanic at this point in the game is like ... zero, so any discussion about how ele core mechanic shouldn't be about swapping elements ... moot. It's simply not the massive deficiency you are trying to say it is ... no more so than all the other classes that have swap class mechanics either. This isn't a discussion about balance. OP's complaint is that Ele doesn't have a class mechanic ... that's simply false. Swapping elements is as valid a class mechanic as any other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > Hey ... you know what the answer is? Choose another profession! That's not just being glib either. That's the reason other classes exist. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The real interesting question is how they will continually create especs in this limited class mechanic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And most have the only way to balances ele is .... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stop there ... we aren't talking about balance here. If someone doesn't like how a class mechanic works, that's not a problem that is fixed by Anet changing how that mechanic works and it has no relation to how it's balanced. It's fixed by people choosing a class that has a mechanic they do like. This is literally the reason we have 9 classes with unique mechanics. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Someone thinks swap mechanics for core ele is not that great a mechanic? OK ... find a class that has a great mechanic and play it. I mean, let's not pretend 'bad class mechanic' is some justification to get Anet to focus on ele with the hope they improve it's balance. If you have a beef with balance on ele, then don't assume changing class mechanic addresses that. > > > > > > > > > > > > Most classes NEED a class mechanic to be balanced. > > > > > > > > > > OK ... but that's not the OP's complaint. OP believes swapping elements isn't a proper mechanic for ele. That's not a balance issue and the answer to that is to choose a profession with a 'proper' mechanic he liks. > > > > > > > > > > I get it ... you want to talk about balance ... OK, but just not here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the amount of variation between the skills of each atument is not enofe to call a true mechanic. > > > > > > You're going to have to explain yourself here ... the variation between the element skills are certainly different enough to make people choose them for specific things they want to do ... yet somehow allowing people to swap those elements to react to the situation they are in isn't 'true' as a mechanic? That doesn't make sense. Reacting to a situation by swapping element to access tools you need is just as much a true mechanic as any other in this game. If anything, swapping to a different 'mode' is a VERY common mechanic for many classes in this game ... and that's not a balancing issue at all. This is simply about people not liking it. If you don't like 'swapping' as a mechanic, choose a class that doesn't do it. > > > > > > I mean, the whole discussion is moot anyways ... do you think we prove the mechanic isn't true, Anet is going to just create a whole new one or something? Not a chance. Seems to me this is just a bad attempt to get Anet to focus on changing the class mechanic and hoping whatever the change is, it affects balance for it in a positive way. > > > > > > > Its like saying wepon swap of say war is an class only mechanic. Staff has 4 "fire balls" 4 "small aoe hits" 4 "utility" and 4 "big aoe" dagger the same way the atument in effect dose not play enofe roll in the class use of the wepon BUT the wepon it self plays a bigger roll in the class. Making atuments less of a mechanic then the wepon you chose to use. > > I'm not going to argue about your comparisons ... they don't make what I said ANY less true. Swapping element to access tools you need to react to whatever situation you are in is just as much a true mechanic as any other class mechanic in this game, especially since the 'swapping' concept is common mechanic many classes have. If 'swapping' is a mechanic you feel is deficient that makes the class you play not enjoyable, then pick your classes better. > The talk is core ele vs its elite spec tempest and weaver they all have atument swap but the elite spec have added mechanics. The OP was pointing this out and i agree with them. Core ele needs something more. You may not like this but your missing the point entirely that this is some how not part of balancing and its a example of apologizing for anet bad choose. By saying "play another class" is one of the worst things you can say to an ele player as most of them HAVE out of frustration with Anets bad choose with the class NOT because they do not find the ele class fun. This all stems from old balancing ideals base off of old systems that are no longer in the game. At one point ele core had an real mechanic with atument trait lines but that all got blow up by the major trait line updates (no longer the odd bay 15 point in each trait line and no more hp power etc.. from them as well) so core ele is missing a massive part of its mechanic of swap effects. Its worst when you add in eleit spec simply getting more effects from swapping both in overlodes faster swaps and duile skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKRathalos.9625 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 In the meantime Warrior only got 1 Extra button to press. 2 if spellbreaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > Hey ... you know what the answer is? Choose another profession! That's not just being glib either. That's the reason other classes exist. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The real interesting question is how they will continually create especs in this limited class mechanic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And most have the only way to balances ele is .... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stop there ... we aren't talking about balance here. If someone doesn't like how a class mechanic works, that's not a problem that is fixed by Anet changing how that mechanic works and it has no relation to how it's balanced. It's fixed by people choosing a class that has a mechanic they do like. This is literally the reason we have 9 classes with unique mechanics. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Someone thinks swap mechanics for core ele is not that great a mechanic? OK ... find a class that has a great mechanic and play it. I mean, let's not pretend 'bad class mechanic' is some justification to get Anet to focus on ele with the hope they improve it's balance. If you have a beef with balance on ele, then don't assume changing class mechanic addresses that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most classes NEED a class mechanic to be balanced. > > > > > > > > > > > > OK ... but that's not the OP's complaint. OP believes swapping elements isn't a proper mechanic for ele. That's not a balance issue and the answer to that is to choose a profession with a 'proper' mechanic he liks. > > > > > > > > > > > > I get it ... you want to talk about balance ... OK, but just not here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the amount of variation between the skills of each atument is not enofe to call a true mechanic. > > > > > > > > You're going to have to explain yourself here ... the variation between the element skills are certainly different enough to make people choose them for specific things they want to do ... yet somehow allowing people to swap those elements to react to the situation they are in isn't 'true' as a mechanic? That doesn't make sense. Reacting to a situation by swapping element to access tools you need is just as much a true mechanic as any other in this game. If anything, swapping to a different 'mode' is a VERY common mechanic for many classes in this game ... and that's not a balancing issue at all. This is simply about people not liking it. If you don't like 'swapping' as a mechanic, choose a class that doesn't do it. > > > > > > > > I mean, the whole discussion is moot anyways ... do you think we prove the mechanic isn't true, Anet is going to just create a whole new one or something? Not a chance. Seems to me this is just a bad attempt to get Anet to focus on changing the class mechanic and hoping whatever the change is, it affects balance for it in a positive way. > > > > > > > > > > Its like saying wepon swap of say war is an class only mechanic. Staff has 4 "fire balls" 4 "small aoe hits" 4 "utility" and 4 "big aoe" dagger the same way the atument in effect dose not play enofe roll in the class use of the wepon BUT the wepon it self plays a bigger roll in the class. Making atuments less of a mechanic then the wepon you chose to use. > > > > I'm not going to argue about your comparisons ... they don't make what I said ANY less true. Swapping element to access tools you need to react to whatever situation you are in is just as much a true mechanic as any other class mechanic in this game, especially since the 'swapping' concept is common mechanic many classes have. If 'swapping' is a mechanic you feel is deficient that makes the class you play not enjoyable, then pick your classes better. > > > > The talk is core ele vs its elite spec tempest and weaver they all have atument swap but the elite spec have added mechanics. Right ... but that's NOT a balance issue; additional mechanics are not necessarily indicators of being better balanced. There might be people that actually PREFER the approach a core Ele offers. This is about appeal of class mechanics. If core ele has a mechanic you don't like, for WHATEVER reason, don't play it. If you appreciate the additional mechanics of the especs, then play them. The solution here has ALWAYS been about player choice because Anet can't cater to every players desire or idea for how the game should work. >By saying "play another class" is one of the worst things you can say to an ele player That can't be true because it's the reason we have all these options to make choices in this game, include what class we play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Hey ... you know what the answer is? Choose another profession! That's not just being glib either. That's the reason other classes exist. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The real interesting question is how they will continually create especs in this limited class mechanic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And most have the only way to balances ele is .... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stop there ... we aren't talking about balance here. If someone doesn't like how a class mechanic works, that's not a problem that is fixed by Anet changing how that mechanic works and it has no relation to how it's balanced. It's fixed by people choosing a class that has a mechanic they do like. This is literally the reason we have 9 classes with unique mechanics. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Someone thinks swap mechanics for core ele is not that great a mechanic? OK ... find a class that has a great mechanic and play it. I mean, let's not pretend 'bad class mechanic' is some justification to get Anet to focus on ele with the hope they improve it's balance. If you have a beef with balance on ele, then don't assume changing class mechanic addresses that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most classes NEED a class mechanic to be balanced. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK ... but that's not the OP's complaint. OP believes swapping elements isn't a proper mechanic for ele. That's not a balance issue and the answer to that is to choose a profession with a 'proper' mechanic he liks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I get it ... you want to talk about balance ... OK, but just not here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the amount of variation between the skills of each atument is not enofe to call a true mechanic. > > > > > > > > > > You're going to have to explain yourself here ... the variation between the element skills are certainly different enough to make people choose them for specific things they want to do ... yet somehow allowing people to swap those elements to react to the situation they are in isn't 'true' as a mechanic? That doesn't make sense. Reacting to a situation by swapping element to access tools you need is just as much a true mechanic as any other in this game. If anything, swapping to a different 'mode' is a VERY common mechanic for many classes in this game ... and that's not a balancing issue at all. This is simply about people not liking it. If you don't like 'swapping' as a mechanic, choose a class that doesn't do it. > > > > > > > > > > I mean, the whole discussion is moot anyways ... do you think we prove the mechanic isn't true, Anet is going to just create a whole new one or something? Not a chance. Seems to me this is just a bad attempt to get Anet to focus on changing the class mechanic and hoping whatever the change is, it affects balance for it in a positive way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its like saying wepon swap of say war is an class only mechanic. Staff has 4 "fire balls" 4 "small aoe hits" 4 "utility" and 4 "big aoe" dagger the same way the atument in effect dose not play enofe roll in the class use of the wepon BUT the wepon it self plays a bigger roll in the class. Making atuments less of a mechanic then the wepon you chose to use. > > > > > > I'm not going to argue about your comparisons ... they don't make what I said ANY less true. Swapping element to access tools you need to react to whatever situation you are in is just as much a true mechanic as any other class mechanic in this game, especially since the 'swapping' concept is common mechanic many classes have. If 'swapping' is a mechanic you feel is deficient that makes the class you play not enjoyable, then pick your classes better. > > > > > > > The talk is core ele vs its elite spec tempest and weaver they all have atument swap but the elite spec have added mechanics. > > Right ... but that's NOT a balance issue; additional mechanics are not necessarily indicators of being better balanced. There might be people that actually PREFER the approach a core Ele offers. This is about appeal of class mechanics. If core ele has a mechanic you don't like, for WHATEVER reason, don't play it. If you appreciate the additional mechanics of the especs, then play them. The solution here has ALWAYS been about player choice because Anet can't cater to every players desire or idea for how the game should work. > > >By saying "play another class" is one of the worst things you can say to an ele player > > That can't be true because it's the reason we have all these options to make choices in this game, include what class we play. > To say this is not balance seems very short sighted. You can enjoy a class that is updated to the point where there no reason to play that class any more due to bad choose of the game makers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > You can enjoy a class that is updated to the point where there no reason to play that class any more due to bad choose of the game makers. That's why this isn't a problem. If you enjoy it, you can play it, it's because you chose it because of 'enjoy', _even_ if it doesn't meet your criteria of 'performance'. If you want to choose based on 'performance' or _whatever_ ... then you might make a different choice. Choice is the answer. Anet can't make the game to cater to all the class choice criteria you have so ele is always the answer for those criteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > You can enjoy a class that is updated to the point where there no reason to play that class any more due to bad choose of the game makers. > > True, that's why this isn't a problem. If you enjoy it and play it, it's because you chose it because of 'enjoy', _even_ if it doesn't meet your criteria of 'performance'. If you want to choose based on 'performance' or _whatever_ ... then you might make a different choice. Choice is the answer. Anet can't make the game to cater to all the class choice criteria you have so ele is always the answer for those criteria. That the thing this game is no longer about choice in the class you play its become a very by the numbers in all of the game types because of elite spec and them only being add on to the core class. This IS the core problem here anet has made power creep and pay 2 win and its simply no longer "fun" to just be there an not helping others or adding to the event because your on a core class and not an elite spec that you may or may not be able to pay for. Pointing out the lack of an mechanic for the core ele is just an massive example of this problem. It is a MUST talk about subject every time you even start to think about any thing going on in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > You can enjoy a class that is updated to the point where there no reason to play that class any more due to bad choose of the game makers. > > > > True, that's why this isn't a problem. If you enjoy it and play it, it's because you chose it because of 'enjoy', _even_ if it doesn't meet your criteria of 'performance'. If you want to choose based on 'performance' or _whatever_ ... then you might make a different choice. Choice is the answer. Anet can't make the game to cater to all the class choice criteria you have so ele is always the answer for those criteria. > > That the thing this game is no longer about choice in the class you play its become a very by the numbers in all of the game types because of elite spec and them only being add on to the core class. That's only because you choose to play the game that way. Not everyone has the same criteria to choose a class that you do. The only problem here is that your choices based on your criteria aren't the ones you prefer. Anet can't cater to you; this is EXACTLY the reason we have all the choices that exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > You can enjoy a class that is updated to the point where there no reason to play that class any more due to bad choose of the game makers. > > > > > > True, that's why this isn't a problem. If you enjoy it and play it, it's because you chose it because of 'enjoy', _even_ if it doesn't meet your criteria of 'performance'. If you want to choose based on 'performance' or _whatever_ ... then you might make a different choice. Choice is the answer. Anet can't make the game to cater to all the class choice criteria you have so ele is always the answer for those criteria. > > > > That the thing this game is no longer about choice in the class you play its become a very by the numbers in all of the game types because of elite spec and them only being add on to the core class. > > That's only because you choose to play the game that way. Not everyone has the same criteria to choose a class that you do. The only problem here is that your choices based on your criteria aren't the ones you prefer. Anet can't cater to you; this is EXACTLY the reason we have all the choices that exist. > > You choose to have a use in a fight not the fact that the very system your playing in dose not focse you into a roll? I think you do not understand hard content or balancing realty. I think you may not understand the game that well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > You can enjoy a class that is updated to the point where there no reason to play that class any more due to bad choose of the game makers. > > > > > > > > True, that's why this isn't a problem. If you enjoy it and play it, it's because you chose it because of 'enjoy', _even_ if it doesn't meet your criteria of 'performance'. If you want to choose based on 'performance' or _whatever_ ... then you might make a different choice. Choice is the answer. Anet can't make the game to cater to all the class choice criteria you have so ele is always the answer for those criteria. > > > > > > That the thing this game is no longer about choice in the class you play its become a very by the numbers in all of the game types because of elite spec and them only being add on to the core class. > > > > That's only because you choose to play the game that way. Not everyone has the same criteria to choose a class that you do. The only problem here is that your choices based on your criteria aren't the ones you prefer. Anet can't cater to you; this is EXACTLY the reason we have all the choices that exist. > > > > > > I think you may not understand the game that well. This game isn't designed around roles INTENTIONALLY and the threshold for success in 'hard' content is low enough that it allows players to make choices over a set of criteria that includes more than just 'performance'. ... what is it that I don't understand about the game now? Again, just because you choose to restrict your choices based on some criteria doesn't change the fact that Anet can't cater to providing you a specific choice you prefer in that criteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > You can enjoy a class that is updated to the point where there no reason to play that class any more due to bad choose of the game makers. > > > > > > > > > > True, that's why this isn't a problem. If you enjoy it and play it, it's because you chose it because of 'enjoy', _even_ if it doesn't meet your criteria of 'performance'. If you want to choose based on 'performance' or _whatever_ ... then you might make a different choice. Choice is the answer. Anet can't make the game to cater to all the class choice criteria you have so ele is always the answer for those criteria. > > > > > > > > That the thing this game is no longer about choice in the class you play its become a very by the numbers in all of the game types because of elite spec and them only being add on to the core class. > > > > > > That's only because you choose to play the game that way. Not everyone has the same criteria to choose a class that you do. The only problem here is that your choices based on your criteria aren't the ones you prefer. Anet can't cater to you; this is EXACTLY the reason we have all the choices that exist. > > > > > > > > > > You choose to have a use in a fight not the fact that the very system your playing in dose not focse you into a roll? I think you do not understand hard content or balancing realty. I think you may not understand the game that well. > > This game isn't designed around roles INTENTIONALLY and the threshold for success in 'hard' content is low enough that it allows players to make choices over a set of criteria that includes more than just 'performance'. > > ... what is it that I don't understand about the game now? > > But it is now i get at one point it was not designed around roles and that where the core classes get there balancing from (more so ele then other classes) but with elite spec they added in roles and it WAS INTENTIONAL. I love to have my condi staff core ele in raids but i have a feeling its not going to go well. I love to see thf play a full support roll at all points of the game but i do not think it will work well and ppl will let you use up space for such a build. I think your mind set is stuck in the past gw2 and realty ele core balancing is very much stuck in the past of gw2 balancing and effects. Its still 2012 for ele sadly its 2021 for most other classes and elite spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > You can enjoy a class that is updated to the point where there no reason to play that class any more due to bad choose of the game makers. > > > > > > > > > > > > True, that's why this isn't a problem. If you enjoy it and play it, it's because you chose it because of 'enjoy', _even_ if it doesn't meet your criteria of 'performance'. If you want to choose based on 'performance' or _whatever_ ... then you might make a different choice. Choice is the answer. Anet can't make the game to cater to all the class choice criteria you have so ele is always the answer for those criteria. > > > > > > > > > > That the thing this game is no longer about choice in the class you play its become a very by the numbers in all of the game types because of elite spec and them only being add on to the core class. > > > > > > > > That's only because you choose to play the game that way. Not everyone has the same criteria to choose a class that you do. The only problem here is that your choices based on your criteria aren't the ones you prefer. Anet can't cater to you; this is EXACTLY the reason we have all the choices that exist. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You choose to have a use in a fight not the fact that the very system your playing in dose not focse you into a roll? I think you do not understand hard content or balancing realty. I think you may not understand the game that well. > > > > This game isn't designed around roles INTENTIONALLY and the threshold for success in 'hard' content is low enough that it allows players to make choices over a set of criteria that includes more than just 'performance'. > > > > ... what is it that I don't understand about the game now? > > > > > > But it is now That doesn't make sense ... the game isn't designed so we need roles filled in teams to be successful in hard content ... even now. If it does, it's because you CHOOSE to play that way. See you don't want to recognize it ... but that's the beauty of the game. It's all about how you want to play; Anet has truly achieved this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > You can enjoy a class that is updated to the point where there no reason to play that class any more due to bad choose of the game makers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > True, that's why this isn't a problem. If you enjoy it and play it, it's because you chose it because of 'enjoy', _even_ if it doesn't meet your criteria of 'performance'. If you want to choose based on 'performance' or _whatever_ ... then you might make a different choice. Choice is the answer. Anet can't make the game to cater to all the class choice criteria you have so ele is always the answer for those criteria. > > > > > > > > > > > > That the thing this game is no longer about choice in the class you play its become a very by the numbers in all of the game types because of elite spec and them only being add on to the core class. > > > > > > > > > > That's only because you choose to play the game that way. Not everyone has the same criteria to choose a class that you do. The only problem here is that your choices based on your criteria aren't the ones you prefer. Anet can't cater to you; this is EXACTLY the reason we have all the choices that exist. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You choose to have a use in a fight not the fact that the very system your playing in dose not focse you into a roll? I think you do not understand hard content or balancing realty. I think you may not understand the game that well. > > > > > > This game isn't designed around roles INTENTIONALLY and the threshold for success in 'hard' content is low enough that it allows players to make choices over a set of criteria that includes more than just 'performance'. > > > > > > ... what is it that I don't understand about the game now? > > > > > > > > > > But it is now > > That doesn't make sense ... the game isn't designed so we need roles filled in teams to be successful in hard content ... even now. If it does, it's because you CHOOSE to play that way. > > See you don't want to recognize it ... but that's the beauty of the game. It's all about how you want to play; Anet has truly achieved this. Your right it was not designed around rolls but anet added them in and its messed up the balancing. Its like pve the game in no way is made for support rolls at all you cant target your skills on your team mates you can only target attks on mobs but you DO have rolls that are all in support healing. This is cult level of denial "Anet has truly achieved this." You may want to ask your self why your using these words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > You can enjoy a class that is updated to the point where there no reason to play that class any more due to bad choose of the game makers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > True, that's why this isn't a problem. If you enjoy it and play it, it's because you chose it because of 'enjoy', _even_ if it doesn't meet your criteria of 'performance'. If you want to choose based on 'performance' or _whatever_ ... then you might make a different choice. Choice is the answer. Anet can't make the game to cater to all the class choice criteria you have so ele is always the answer for those criteria. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That the thing this game is no longer about choice in the class you play its become a very by the numbers in all of the game types because of elite spec and them only being add on to the core class. > > > > > > > > > > > > That's only because you choose to play the game that way. Not everyone has the same criteria to choose a class that you do. The only problem here is that your choices based on your criteria aren't the ones you prefer. Anet can't cater to you; this is EXACTLY the reason we have all the choices that exist. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You choose to have a use in a fight not the fact that the very system your playing in dose not focse you into a roll? I think you do not understand hard content or balancing realty. I think you may not understand the game that well. > > > > > > > > This game isn't designed around roles INTENTIONALLY and the threshold for success in 'hard' content is low enough that it allows players to make choices over a set of criteria that includes more than just 'performance'. > > > > > > > > ... what is it that I don't understand about the game now? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But it is now > > > > That doesn't make sense ... the game isn't designed so we need roles filled in teams to be successful in hard content ... even now. If it does, it's because you CHOOSE to play that way. > > > > See you don't want to recognize it ... but that's the beauty of the game. It's all about how you want to play; Anet has truly achieved this. > > Your right it was not designed around rolls but anet added them No, there is NO roles added in this game. If you play in a 'role', it's because you choose to build and play that way. This 'roles' is NOT something Anet imposed in the game design itself because you and a team can be successful and NOT make choices around being in a role. I mean, let's put a lid on this ... OK, even if there is game design around 'roles', it doesn't change the fact that Anet can't cater to what you think should be included in your choices for a set of criteria you want to apply. It doesn't change the fact that the threshold for success in 'hard' content is low enough that it allows players to make choices over a set of criteria that includes more than just 'performance' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > You can enjoy a class that is updated to the point where there no reason to play that class any more due to bad choose of the game makers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > True, that's why this isn't a problem. If you enjoy it and play it, it's because you chose it because of 'enjoy', _even_ if it doesn't meet your criteria of 'performance'. If you want to choose based on 'performance' or _whatever_ ... then you might make a different choice. Choice is the answer. Anet can't make the game to cater to all the class choice criteria you have so ele is always the answer for those criteria. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That the thing this game is no longer about choice in the class you play its become a very by the numbers in all of the game types because of elite spec and them only being add on to the core class. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's only because you choose to play the game that way. Not everyone has the same criteria to choose a class that you do. The only problem here is that your choices based on your criteria aren't the ones you prefer. Anet can't cater to you; this is EXACTLY the reason we have all the choices that exist. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You choose to have a use in a fight not the fact that the very system your playing in dose not focse you into a roll? I think you do not understand hard content or balancing realty. I think you may not understand the game that well. > > > > > > > > > > This game isn't designed around roles INTENTIONALLY and the threshold for success in 'hard' content is low enough that it allows players to make choices over a set of criteria that includes more than just 'performance'. > > > > > > > > > > ... what is it that I don't understand about the game now? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But it is now > > > > > > That doesn't make sense ... the game isn't designed so we need roles filled in teams to be successful in hard content ... even now. If it does, it's because you CHOOSE to play that way. > > > > > > See you don't want to recognize it ... but that's the beauty of the game. It's all about how you want to play; Anet has truly achieved this. > > > > Your right it was not designed around rolls but anet added them > > No, there is NO roles added in this game. If you play in a 'role', it's because you choose to build and play that way. This 'roles' is NOT something Anet imposed in the game design itself because you and a team can be successful and NOT make choices around being in a role. > > I mean, let's put a lid on this ... OK, even if there is game design around 'roles', it doesn't change the fact that Anet can't cater to what you think should be included in your choices for a set of criteria you want to apply. It doesn't change the fact that the threshold for success in 'hard' content is low enough that it allows players to make choices over a set of criteria that includes more than just 'performance' Your just opening for abuse of existing classes and things ppl find fun for new things and power creep / p2w. Its just wrong not every one is playing the game F2P and the core classes are NOT F2P content they need to be as viable as the elite spec at all points of the game. This all comes down to core ele has no true mechanic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > You can enjoy a class that is updated to the point where there no reason to play that class any more due to bad choose of the game makers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > True, that's why this isn't a problem. If you enjoy it and play it, it's because you chose it because of 'enjoy', _even_ if it doesn't meet your criteria of 'performance'. If you want to choose based on 'performance' or _whatever_ ... then you might make a different choice. Choice is the answer. Anet can't make the game to cater to all the class choice criteria you have so ele is always the answer for those criteria. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That the thing this game is no longer about choice in the class you play its become a very by the numbers in all of the game types because of elite spec and them only being add on to the core class. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's only because you choose to play the game that way. Not everyone has the same criteria to choose a class that you do. The only problem here is that your choices based on your criteria aren't the ones you prefer. Anet can't cater to you; this is EXACTLY the reason we have all the choices that exist. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You choose to have a use in a fight not the fact that the very system your playing in dose not focse you into a roll? I think you do not understand hard content or balancing realty. I think you may not understand the game that well. > > > > > > > > > > > > This game isn't designed around roles INTENTIONALLY and the threshold for success in 'hard' content is low enough that it allows players to make choices over a set of criteria that includes more than just 'performance'. > > > > > > > > > > > > ... what is it that I don't understand about the game now? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But it is now > > > > > > > > That doesn't make sense ... the game isn't designed so we need roles filled in teams to be successful in hard content ... even now. If it does, it's because you CHOOSE to play that way. > > > > > > > > See you don't want to recognize it ... but that's the beauty of the game. It's all about how you want to play; Anet has truly achieved this. > > > > > > Your right it was not designed around rolls but anet added them > > > > No, there is NO roles added in this game. If you play in a 'role', it's because you choose to build and play that way. This 'roles' is NOT something Anet imposed in the game design itself because you and a team can be successful and NOT make choices around being in a role. > > > > I mean, let's put a lid on this ... OK, even if there is game design around 'roles', it doesn't change the fact that Anet can't cater to what you think should be included in your choices for a set of criteria you want to apply. It doesn't change the fact that the threshold for success in 'hard' content is low enough that it allows players to make choices over a set of criteria that includes more than just 'performance' > > Your just opening for abuse of existing classes and things ppl find fun for new things and power creep / p2w. Again, that just depends on your criteria for making choices and how you CHOOSE to be abused by criteria not related to how you make those choices. If your criteria is 'fun' then other criteria don't matter. If those other criteria offend you even if your primary one is 'fun', that's not a problem Anet has to fix ... that's just an additional requirement that could affect your pool of possible choices. Swapping elements is as true as any other 'swapping' mechanic in this game because swapping elements DOES have a real impact on how you play and what you want to do. Trying to make this into a P2W argument is a non-starter because 1. Clearly, whatever level of P2W you want to claim exists, it's not going to change and it's not even going to get better; it's going to get worse. 2. Having limited choices based on 'performance' criteria existed from day 1, long before especs existed. If anything, especs EXPAND the pool of builds that satisfy multiple or complex class choice criteria players want to have ... so you are wrong when you imply that 'p2w' is somehow a negative impact on players making class choices. If GW2 is too much P2W for you, only YOU can choose how to spend your time playing games and what games you play; that Pandora's box was opened a LONG time ago. But that's not anything to do with Ele and how 'true' it's class mechanic is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > You can enjoy a class that is updated to the point where there no reason to play that class any more due to bad choose of the game makers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > True, that's why this isn't a problem. If you enjoy it and play it, it's because you chose it because of 'enjoy', _even_ if it doesn't meet your criteria of 'performance'. If you want to choose based on 'performance' or _whatever_ ... then you might make a different choice. Choice is the answer. Anet can't make the game to cater to all the class choice criteria you have so ele is always the answer for those criteria. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That the thing this game is no longer about choice in the class you play its become a very by the numbers in all of the game types because of elite spec and them only being add on to the core class. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's only because you choose to play the game that way. Not everyone has the same criteria to choose a class that you do. The only problem here is that your choices based on your criteria aren't the ones you prefer. Anet can't cater to you; this is EXACTLY the reason we have all the choices that exist. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You choose to have a use in a fight not the fact that the very system your playing in dose not focse you into a roll? I think you do not understand hard content or balancing realty. I think you may not understand the game that well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This game isn't designed around roles INTENTIONALLY and the threshold for success in 'hard' content is low enough that it allows players to make choices over a set of criteria that includes more than just 'performance'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... what is it that I don't understand about the game now? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But it is now > > > > > > > > > > That doesn't make sense ... the game isn't designed so we need roles filled in teams to be successful in hard content ... even now. If it does, it's because you CHOOSE to play that way. > > > > > > > > > > See you don't want to recognize it ... but that's the beauty of the game. It's all about how you want to play; Anet has truly achieved this. > > > > > > > > Your right it was not designed around rolls but anet added them > > > > > > No, there is NO roles added in this game. If you play in a 'role', it's because you choose to build and play that way. This 'roles' is NOT something Anet imposed in the game design itself because you and a team can be successful and NOT make choices around being in a role. > > > > > > I mean, let's put a lid on this ... OK, even if there is game design around 'roles', it doesn't change the fact that Anet can't cater to what you think should be included in your choices for a set of criteria you want to apply. It doesn't change the fact that the threshold for success in 'hard' content is low enough that it allows players to make choices over a set of criteria that includes more than just 'performance' > > > > Your just opening for abuse of existing classes and things ppl find fun for new things and power creep / p2w. > > Again, that just depends on your criteria for making choices and how you CHOOSE to be abused by criteria not related to how you make those choices. If your criteria is 'fun' then other criteria don't matter. If those other criteria offend you even if your primary one is 'fun', that's not a problem Anet has to fix ... that's just an additional requirement that could affect your pool of possible choices. > > Swapping elements is as true as any other 'swapping' mechanic in this game because swapping elements DOES have a real impact on how you play and what you want to do. > > Trying to make this into a P2W argument is a non-starter because > > 1. Clearly, whatever level of P2W you want to claim exists, it's not going to change and it's not even going to get better; it's going to get worse. > 2. Having limited choices based on 'performance' criteria existed from day 1, long before especs existed. > > If anything, especs EXPAND the pool of builds that satisfy multiple or complex class choice criteria players want to have ... so you are wrong when you imply that 'p2w' is somehow a negative impact on players making class choices. > > If GW2 is too much P2W for you, only YOU can choose how to spend your time playing games and what games you play; that Pandora's box was opened a LONG time ago. But that's not anything to do with Ele and how 'true' it's class mechanic is. You as a player can chose as much as you want but you cant make ppl play with you due to thoughts choose. This is a team base game and now a roll base game with limited space in groups. You can believe that you can do any thing you want in real life but real life has a way of wining out at the end of the day. Gaming / non real worlds are the same way. Ele lacks a mechanic its realty that simple. 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Obtena.7952 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can enjoy a class that is updated to the point where there no reason to play that class any more due to bad choose of the game makers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > True, that's why this isn't a problem. If you enjoy it and play it, it's because you chose it because of 'enjoy', _even_ if it doesn't meet your criteria of 'performance'. If you want to choose based on 'performance' or _whatever_ ... then you might make a different choice. Choice is the answer. Anet can't make the game to cater to all the class choice criteria you have so ele is always the answer for those criteria. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That the thing this game is no longer about choice in the class you play its become a very by the numbers in all of the game types because of elite spec and them only being add on to the core class. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's only because you choose to play the game that way. Not everyone has the same criteria to choose a class that you do. The only problem here is that your choices based on your criteria aren't the ones you prefer. Anet can't cater to you; this is EXACTLY the reason we have all the choices that exist. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You choose to have a use in a fight not the fact that the very system your playing in dose not focse you into a roll? I think you do not understand hard content or balancing realty. I think you may not understand the game that well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This game isn't designed around roles INTENTIONALLY and the threshold for success in 'hard' content is low enough that it allows players to make choices over a set of criteria that includes more than just 'performance'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... what is it that I don't understand about the game now? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But it is now > > > > > > > > > > > > That doesn't make sense ... the game isn't designed so we need roles filled in teams to be successful in hard content ... even now. If it does, it's because you CHOOSE to play that way. > > > > > > > > > > > > See you don't want to recognize it ... but that's the beauty of the game. It's all about how you want to play; Anet has truly achieved this. > > > > > > > > > > Your right it was not designed around rolls but anet added them > > > > > > > > No, there is NO roles added in this game. If you play in a 'role', it's because you choose to build and play that way. This 'roles' is NOT something Anet imposed in the game design itself because you and a team can be successful and NOT make choices around being in a role. > > > > > > > > I mean, let's put a lid on this ... OK, even if there is game design around 'roles', it doesn't change the fact that Anet can't cater to what you think should be included in your choices for a set of criteria you want to apply. It doesn't change the fact that the threshold for success in 'hard' content is low enough that it allows players to make choices over a set of criteria that includes more than just 'performance' > > > > > > Your just opening for abuse of existing classes and things ppl find fun for new things and power creep / p2w. > > > > Again, that just depends on your criteria for making choices and how you CHOOSE to be abused by criteria not related to how you make those choices. If your criteria is 'fun' then other criteria don't matter. If those other criteria offend you even if your primary one is 'fun', that's not a problem Anet has to fix ... that's just an additional requirement that could affect your pool of possible choices. > > > > Swapping elements is as true as any other 'swapping' mechanic in this game because swapping elements DOES have a real impact on how you play and what you want to do. > > > > Trying to make this into a P2W argument is a non-starter because > > > > 1. Clearly, whatever level of P2W you want to claim exists, it's not going to change and it's not even going to get better; it's going to get worse. > > 2. Having limited choices based on 'performance' criteria existed from day 1, long before especs existed. > > > > If anything, especs EXPAND the pool of builds that satisfy multiple or complex class choice criteria players want to have ... so you are wrong when you imply that 'p2w' is somehow a negative impact on players making class choices. > > > > If GW2 is too much P2W for you, only YOU can choose how to spend your time playing games and what games you play; that Pandora's box was opened a LONG time ago. But that's not anything to do with Ele and how 'true' it's class mechanic is. > > You as a player can chose as much as you want but you cant make ppl play with you due to thoughts choose. True, you can't make people think how you want ... but you still can CHOOSE who you play with. So again, if you are CHOOSING to play with people who tell you how and what to play, that's not a problem Anet fixes for you and it's certainly not a reason for Anet to change ele class mechanic. There is no lacking mechanic here. Swapping elements is a perfectly reasonable class mechanic because it DOES have a real impact on how you play and what you want to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can enjoy a class that is updated to the point where there no reason to play that class any more due to bad choose of the game makers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > True, that's why this isn't a problem. If you enjoy it and play it, it's because you chose it because of 'enjoy', _even_ if it doesn't meet your criteria of 'performance'. If you want to choose based on 'performance' or _whatever_ ... then you might make a different choice. Choice is the answer. Anet can't make the game to cater to all the class choice criteria you have so ele is always the answer for those criteria. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That the thing this game is no longer about choice in the class you play its become a very by the numbers in all of the game types because of elite spec and them only being add on to the core class. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's only because you choose to play the game that way. Not everyone has the same criteria to choose a class that you do. The only problem here is that your choices based on your criteria aren't the ones you prefer. Anet can't cater to you; this is EXACTLY the reason we have all the choices that exist. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You choose to have a use in a fight not the fact that the very system your playing in dose not focse you into a roll? I think you do not understand hard content or balancing realty. I think you may not understand the game that well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This game isn't designed around roles INTENTIONALLY and the threshold for success in 'hard' content is low enough that it allows players to make choices over a set of criteria that includes more than just 'performance'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... what is it that I don't understand about the game now? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But it is now > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That doesn't make sense ... the game isn't designed so we need roles filled in teams to be successful in hard content ... even now. If it does, it's because you CHOOSE to play that way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > See you don't want to recognize it ... but that's the beauty of the game. It's all about how you want to play; Anet has truly achieved this. > > > > > > > > > > > > Your right it was not designed around rolls but anet added them > > > > > > > > > > No, there is NO roles added in this game. If you play in a 'role', it's because you choose to build and play that way. This 'roles' is NOT something Anet imposed in the game design itself because you and a team can be successful and NOT make choices around being in a role. > > > > > > > > > > I mean, let's put a lid on this ... OK, even if there is game design around 'roles', it doesn't change the fact that Anet can't cater to what you think should be included in your choices for a set of criteria you want to apply. It doesn't change the fact that the threshold for success in 'hard' content is low enough that it allows players to make choices over a set of criteria that includes more than just 'performance' > > > > > > > > Your just opening for abuse of existing classes and things ppl find fun for new things and power creep / p2w. > > > > > > Again, that just depends on your criteria for making choices and how you CHOOSE to be abused by criteria not related to how you make those choices. If your criteria is 'fun' then other criteria don't matter. If those other criteria offend you even if your primary one is 'fun', that's not a problem Anet has to fix ... that's just an additional requirement that could affect your pool of possible choices. > > > > > > Swapping elements is as true as any other 'swapping' mechanic in this game because swapping elements DOES have a real impact on how you play and what you want to do. > > > > > > Trying to make this into a P2W argument is a non-starter because > > > > > > 1. Clearly, whatever level of P2W you want to claim exists, it's not going to change and it's not even going to get better; it's going to get worse. > > > 2. Having limited choices based on 'performance' criteria existed from day 1, long before especs existed. > > > > > > If anything, especs EXPAND the pool of builds that satisfy multiple or complex class choice criteria players want to have ... so you are wrong when you imply that 'p2w' is somehow a negative impact on players making class choices. > > > > > > If GW2 is too much P2W for you, only YOU can choose how to spend your time playing games and what games you play; that Pandora's box was opened a LONG time ago. But that's not anything to do with Ele and how 'true' it's class mechanic is. > > > > You as a player can chose as much as you want but you cant make ppl play with you due to thoughts choose. > > True, you can't make people think how you want ... but you still can CHOOSE who you play with. So again, if you are CHOOSING to play with people who tell you how and what to play, that's not a problem Anet fixes for you and it's certainly not a reason for Anet to change ele class mechanic. > > There is no lacking mechanic here. Swapping elements is a perfectly reasonable class mechanic because it DOES have a real impact on how you play and what you want to do. But that the problem you can be fin saying to other ppl do what you want how you want but that dose not mean they can do it and your comply gosling over a real problem with the ele class by saying such things. This is called apologizing for anet. Core ele needs a massive update and it IS lacking a mechanic. So far only core classes get nerf due to there elite spec. because these elite spec fill rolls that are not part of the game that why ppl call it p2w. Until anet lets you do all content solo you point is invade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > Core ele needs a massive update and it IS lacking a mechanic. > It might need an update BUT there is no mechanic lacking here. Swapping elements _is_ the class mechanic on ele. That's not even up for a debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > Core ele needs a massive update and it IS lacking a mechanic. > > > It might need an update BUT there is no mechanic lacking here. Swapping elements is a class mechanic. You might think it's deficient ... but it IS a mechanic. The lack of mechanic is due to tempest and weaver getting the same mechanic but that not there true mechanic. In a way it gets back to wepon swap being a mechanic of a class or not in it self is not enofe on its own to be a true mechanic. Ele is a mages that dose not use magic. The wepon it holds is more importen then the atument it is in. For a mages magic should be the mechanic not the wepon and sadly the different atuments are not different enofe in effect to call them a mechanic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > Core ele needs a massive update and it IS lacking a mechanic. > > > > > It might need an update BUT there is no mechanic lacking here. Swapping elements is a class mechanic. You might think it's deficient ... but it IS a mechanic. > > The lack of mechanic is due to tempest and weaver getting the same mechanic ... Ele doesn't lack a mechanic because tempest and weaver share the same one. That's absurd. Almost every class and their especs all work like this in fact. The mechanic is swapping elements ... and core ele does that, so YES it has a mechanic. Seems to me you don't understand what 'lacking' actually means. You can argue what you think it should be all you like ... but that's not relevant to the game. The game isn't designed around catering to how you think it should work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > Core ele needs a massive update and it IS lacking a mechanic. > > > > > > > It might need an update BUT there is no mechanic lacking here. Swapping elements is a class mechanic. You might think it's deficient ... but it IS a mechanic. > > > > The lack of mechanic is due to tempest and weaver getting the same mechanic ... > > Ele doesn't lack a mechanic because tempest and weaver share the same one. That's absurd. Almost every class and their especs all work like this in fact. The mechanic is swapping elements ... and core ele does that, so YES it has a mechanic. Seems to me you don't understand what 'lacking' actually means. > > You can argue what you think it should be all you like ... but that's not relevant to the game. The game isn't designed around catering to how you think it should work. Its not just they share one they have the swap and an mechanic effect. If core ele got more from each atument then it would be a true mechanic of a class till then its on the level of a class having an wepon swap or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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