Sobx.1758 Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can enjoy a class that is updated to the point where there no reason to play that class any more due to bad choose of the game makers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > True, that's why this isn't a problem. If you enjoy it and play it, it's because you chose it because of 'enjoy', _even_ if it doesn't meet your criteria of 'performance'. If you want to choose based on 'performance' or _whatever_ ... then you might make a different choice. Choice is the answer. Anet can't make the game to cater to all the class choice criteria you have so ele is always the answer for those criteria. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That the thing this game is no longer about choice in the class you play its become a very by the numbers in all of the game types because of elite spec and them only being add on to the core class. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's only because you choose to play the game that way. Not everyone has the same criteria to choose a class that you do. The only problem here is that your choices based on your criteria aren't the ones you prefer. Anet can't cater to you; this is EXACTLY the reason we have all the choices that exist. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You choose to have a use in a fight not the fact that the very system your playing in dose not focse you into a roll? I think you do not understand hard content or balancing realty. I think you may not understand the game that well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This game isn't designed around roles INTENTIONALLY and the threshold for success in 'hard' content is low enough that it allows players to make choices over a set of criteria that includes more than just 'performance'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... what is it that I don't understand about the game now? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But it is now > > > > > > > > > > > > That doesn't make sense ... the game isn't designed so we need roles filled in teams to be successful in hard content ... even now. If it does, it's because you CHOOSE to play that way. > > > > > > > > > > > > See you don't want to recognize it ... but that's the beauty of the game. It's all about how you want to play; Anet has truly achieved this. > > > > > > > > > > Your right it was not designed around rolls but anet added them > > > > > > > > No, there is NO roles added in this game. If you play in a 'role', it's because you choose to build and play that way. This 'roles' is NOT something Anet imposed in the game design itself because you and a team can be successful and NOT make choices around being in a role. > > > > > > > > I mean, let's put a lid on this ... OK, even if there is game design around 'roles', it doesn't change the fact that Anet can't cater to what you think should be included in your choices for a set of criteria you want to apply. It doesn't change the fact that the threshold for success in 'hard' content is low enough that it allows players to make choices over a set of criteria that includes more than just 'performance' > > > > > > Your just opening for abuse of existing classes and things ppl find fun for new things and power creep / p2w. > > > > Again, that just depends on your criteria for making choices and how you CHOOSE to be abused by criteria not related to how you make those choices. If your criteria is 'fun' then other criteria don't matter. If those other criteria offend you even if your primary one is 'fun', that's not a problem Anet has to fix ... that's just an additional requirement that could affect your pool of possible choices. > > > > Swapping elements is as true as any other 'swapping' mechanic in this game because swapping elements DOES have a real impact on how you play and what you want to do. > > > > Trying to make this into a P2W argument is a non-starter because > > > > 1. Clearly, whatever level of P2W you want to claim exists, it's not going to change and it's not even going to get better; it's going to get worse. > > 2. Having limited choices based on 'performance' criteria existed from day 1, long before especs existed. > > > > If anything, especs EXPAND the pool of builds that satisfy multiple or complex class choice criteria players want to have ... so you are wrong when you imply that 'p2w' is somehow a negative impact on players making class choices. > > > > If GW2 is too much P2W for you, only YOU can choose how to spend your time playing games and what games you play; that Pandora's box was opened a LONG time ago. But that's not anything to do with Ele and how 'true' it's class mechanic is. > > You as a player can chose as much as you want but you cant make ppl play with you due to thoughts choose. This is a team base game and now a roll base game with limited space in groups. > > You can believe that you can do any thing you want in real life but real life has a way of wining out at the end of the day. Gaming / non real worlds are the same way. > > Ele lacks a mechanic its realty that simple. Apparently I might have misunderstood half of this thread, but I'm kind of confused how you seemingly keep arguing performance/role/f2p/p2w perspectives and then conclude it all with "ele lacks a mechanic". None of the previous statements -no matter how right or wrong- have anything to do with determining whether it's a mechanic or not. ...and it definitely is a mechanic. You might not like it, but it doesn't change that fact. > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > _Why should a player not consider changing class if the class they play doesn't satisfy the way they want to play the game?_ > > > > > > Because they want to play that class. > > > > That doesn't make sense ... If someone plays a class, it MUST satisfy some criteria they have to make that choice. There is clearly something wrong with their own criteria if they choose a class that they have convinced themselves they want to play ... but don't like playing. Therefore, the idea they choose a different class isn't so unreasonable after all is it. > > > > I mean ... listen to yourself ... people WANT to play a class that DOESN'T satisfy the way they want to play the game. That's some new level nonsense right their. > > > > Oh and BTW, I 'ran' ele yesterday. > > Well not at all you can play a class for years and then anet updates in such a way to make the class no longer viable. This is what happen and its all due to anet putting the elite spec before the core classes. > > We are talking about 4? years before ele core was hit because of tempest and 6? for weaver. > > This is all on anet. ...and again you're arguing about performance (and nerfs to core class) which has nothing to do with a class having a mechanic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliamRationem.5172 Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 I don't know about you guys, but I was expecting universal truth to emerge from this back and forth at some point and now I want my 5 minutes back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kharmin.7683 Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > MMO update for sure but you can and you MUST point out when they are evolving in such a way that is wrong to the player base. Please do not assume that you speak for the entire player base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > I am being blunt about my views ... > > > > > > > > > > ... and it's causing you to make irrelevant or untrue statements and conclusions about the game. These things are NOT helping you create good reasoning for changing ele. > > > > > > > > > > >ppl play a class for years then have the rug pulled out from under them > > > > > > > > > > OK .. but that's how evolving MMO's work ... like since always. The approach you have to deal with that is making choices from the options you have available to you. You need to get over yourself because Anet can't cater to how you want the game work. > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > You realty cant play what ever class you want because the game builds on it self it takes time to unlock and to build up a character and as anet added in more gear and things to build up to the grind has only gotten worst. This game is NOT made for alts and its getting worst for them every day. > > > > > > > > > > > That doesn't make sense because those things do NOT prevent you from playing whatever class you want. The ONLY thing that prevents you from playing whatever class you want are your OWN criteria for choosing a class. If your primary criteria for choosing a class is "_I've already leveled, geared and unlocked everything on this character_" ... that's your CHOICE and it's more important to you than any other criteria you have. > > > > > > > > > > Nothing you say is going to diminish the fact that making choices in evolving games, like this one, IS intentional as a method to deal with game change and it's one of the primary reasons Anet gives us all these options to choose from. Like, NOTHING. > > > > > > > > You are calling me a lair over and over ... > > > > > > That's _not true_; I've NEVER called you that. I'm simply clarifying the discussion when I see you saying untrue or irrelevant statements. > > > > MMO update for sure but you can and you MUST point out when they are evolving in such a way that is wrong to the player base. > > > > > > That's _not true. It might be wrong _for you_ but you don't know if it's wrong to the player base. Anet can't cater to how you think the game should work just to please you. > > > > I am part of that player base and i know what i know ... > > OK ... except being part of that doesn't mean you know if how ele works is wrong to the player base so it's still _not true_ when you say how ele works is wrong to the player base. You can't base your justification to change ele on statements that are _not true_. I'm also a part of the playerbase ... and I don't like your reasoning for changing ele because it's based on _not true_ things. > > >Please do not look down on ppl too much for disagree with anet. > > I don't ... but I do look down on people that make untrue and irrelevant statements to disagree with Anet, especially if those people aren't being considerate of how other players enjoy and play the game. > > But your amusing your point of view is the player base these forms are NOT the over all player base or we would have more post per day and realty this is one of the least places where ppl go. Anet is sadly not the player base and over all they do not seem to interact with there player base in any meaningful way now. If you tell some one to play another class because of there suggestion on something you are looking down on them a lot. By no means will i comment on other post in a meaningful way as i am talking to one person at a time not to the 3 or so ppl who post on these forms. But i must say most of your guys points of views seem to be base off the ideal that as long as you can use an elite spec you should and some how that is not p2w is borderline madness. Core ele is lacking and it was made lacking because of the elite spec. and how anet did not make the elite spec give up any thing meaningful. So every nerf to staff weaver is a hard nerf to core ele staff. Any support nerf to auras during is a hard nerf to core ele. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sifu.9745 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 That's why i only play Elementalist with full Celestial gear to get benefits of ALL 4 atunements. Dmg is just slightly lower than Marauder or Trailblazer (20% maybe?), while i can also do nice healing, direct dmg and condition dmg. It's a lot of fun when you can play ele with all 4 attunements. If i pve i use Fire, Air + X most of the time or, depends of weapon, Fire, Earth + X, in WvW i use Earth, Water + X (usually Tempest). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > I am being blunt about my views ... > > > > > > > > > > > > ... and it's causing you to make irrelevant or untrue statements and conclusions about the game. These things are NOT helping you create good reasoning for changing ele. > > > > > > > > > > > > >ppl play a class for years then have the rug pulled out from under them > > > > > > > > > > > > OK .. but that's how evolving MMO's work ... like since always. The approach you have to deal with that is making choices from the options you have available to you. You need to get over yourself because Anet can't cater to how you want the game work. > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > You realty cant play what ever class you want because the game builds on it self it takes time to unlock and to build up a character and as anet added in more gear and things to build up to the grind has only gotten worst. This game is NOT made for alts and its getting worst for them every day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > That doesn't make sense because those things do NOT prevent you from playing whatever class you want. The ONLY thing that prevents you from playing whatever class you want are your OWN criteria for choosing a class. If your primary criteria for choosing a class is "_I've already leveled, geared and unlocked everything on this character_" ... that's your CHOICE and it's more important to you than any other criteria you have. > > > > > > > > > > > > Nothing you say is going to diminish the fact that making choices in evolving games, like this one, IS intentional as a method to deal with game change and it's one of the primary reasons Anet gives us all these options to choose from. Like, NOTHING. > > > > > > > > > > You are calling me a lair over and over ... > > > > > > > > That's _not true_; I've NEVER called you that. I'm simply clarifying the discussion when I see you saying untrue or irrelevant statements. > > > > > MMO update for sure but you can and you MUST point out when they are evolving in such a way that is wrong to the player base. > > > > > > > > That's _not true. It might be wrong _for you_ but you don't know if it's wrong to the player base. Anet can't cater to how you think the game should work just to please you. > > > > > > I am part of that player base and i know what i know ... > > > > OK ... except being part of that doesn't mean you know if how ele works is wrong to the player base so it's still _not true_ when you say how ele works is wrong to the player base. You can't base your justification to change ele on statements that are _not true_. I'm also a part of the playerbase ... and I don't like your reasoning for changing ele because it's based on _not true_ things. > > > > >Please do not look down on ppl too much for disagree with anet. > > > > I don't ... but I do look down on people that make untrue and irrelevant statements to disagree with Anet, especially if those people aren't being considerate of how other players enjoy and play the game. > > > > > > But your amusing your point of view is the player base these forms are NOT the over all player base or we would have more post per day and realty this is one of the least places where ppl go. Anet is sadly not the player base and over all they do not seem to interact with there player base in any meaningful way now. This has nothing to do with the topic: _irrelevant_ > > If you tell some one to play another class because of there suggestion on something you are looking down on them a lot. This is _not true_; I've explained why several times. I'm _not_ telling someone to go play another class because they made a suggestion. > > By no means will i comment on other post in a meaningful way as i am talking to one person at a time not to the 3 or so ppl who post on these forms. Good, because frankly, we shouldn't have to continually filter _not true_ or _irrelevant_ statements to have a discussion. > > But i must say most of your guys points of views seem to be base off the ideal that as long as you can use an elite spec you should and some how that is not p2w is borderline madness. Core ele is lacking and it was made lacking because of the elite spec. and how anet did not make the elite spec give up any thing meaningful. So every nerf to staff weaver is a hard nerf to core ele staff. Any support nerf to auras during is a hard nerf to core ele. Again, that's _irrelevant_ speculation. I get you want to paint this picture that especs are evil p2w things, but it's STILL not a reason to buff ele. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeesh.7286 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Can someone give a tldr? I'm a bit intimidated by 2 full pages given that the 3rd page makes no sense to me as to what even is being discussed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > I am being blunt about my views ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... and it's causing you to make irrelevant or untrue statements and conclusions about the game. These things are NOT helping you create good reasoning for changing ele. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >ppl play a class for years then have the rug pulled out from under them > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK .. but that's how evolving MMO's work ... like since always. The approach you have to deal with that is making choices from the options you have available to you. You need to get over yourself because Anet can't cater to how you want the game work. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > You realty cant play what ever class you want because the game builds on it self it takes time to unlock and to build up a character and as anet added in more gear and things to build up to the grind has only gotten worst. This game is NOT made for alts and its getting worst for them every day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That doesn't make sense because those things do NOT prevent you from playing whatever class you want. The ONLY thing that prevents you from playing whatever class you want are your OWN criteria for choosing a class. If your primary criteria for choosing a class is "_I've already leveled, geared and unlocked everything on this character_" ... that's your CHOICE and it's more important to you than any other criteria you have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nothing you say is going to diminish the fact that making choices in evolving games, like this one, IS intentional as a method to deal with game change and it's one of the primary reasons Anet gives us all these options to choose from. Like, NOTHING. > > > > > > > > > > > > You are calling me a lair over and over ... > > > > > > > > > > That's _not true_; I've NEVER called you that. I'm simply clarifying the discussion when I see you saying untrue or irrelevant statements. > > > > > > MMO update for sure but you can and you MUST point out when they are evolving in such a way that is wrong to the player base. > > > > > > > > > > That's _not true. It might be wrong _for you_ but you don't know if it's wrong to the player base. Anet can't cater to how you think the game should work just to please you. > > > > > > > > I am part of that player base and i know what i know ... > > > > > > OK ... except being part of that doesn't mean you know if how ele works is wrong to the player base so it's still _not true_ when you say how ele works is wrong to the player base. You can't base your justification to change ele on statements that are _not true_. I'm also a part of the playerbase ... and I don't like your reasoning for changing ele because it's based on _not true_ things. > > > > > > >Please do not look down on ppl too much for disagree with anet. > > > > > > I don't ... but I do look down on people that make untrue and irrelevant statements to disagree with Anet, especially if those people aren't being considerate of how other players enjoy and play the game. > > > > > > > > > > But your amusing your point of view is the player base these forms are NOT the over all player base or we would have more post per day and realty this is one of the least places where ppl go. Anet is sadly not the player base and over all they do not seem to interact with there player base in any meaningful way now. > > This has nothing to do with the topic: _irrelevant_ > > > > If you tell some one to play another class because of there suggestion on something you are looking down on them a lot. > > This is _not true_; I've explained why several times. I'm _not_ telling someone to go play another class because they made a suggestion. > > > > By no means will i comment on other post in a meaningful way as i am talking to one person at a time not to the 3 or so ppl who post on these forms. > > Good, because frankly, we shouldn't have to continually filter _not true_ or _irrelevant_ statements to have a discussion. > > > > But i must say most of your guys points of views seem to be base off the ideal that as long as you can use an elite spec you should and some how that is not p2w is borderline madness. Core ele is lacking and it was made lacking because of the elite spec. and how anet did not make the elite spec give up any thing meaningful. So every nerf to staff weaver is a hard nerf to core ele staff. Any support nerf to auras during is a hard nerf to core ele. > > Again, that's _irrelevant_ speculation. I get you want to paint this picture that especs are evil p2w things, but it's STILL not a reason to buff ele. > > So you went off talking about how i am not the player base so i had to point out the very importance fact the forms are not the player base of gw2 at this point lol. It is your the attker here i am the defer sry. Telling some one to play another class IS the worst thing to tell to an ele player. So if you update core ele in any way you effect the elite spec because every thing ele core has as a class the elite spec get. So you cant do any thing for the core ele out side of giving the class its own mechanic. This is what all of this was about. 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Obtena.7952 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > So you went off talking about how i am not the player base ... No, that's _not true_ (maybe I need to trademark this ... what do you guys think?) I said you are only a PART of the playerbase, so you can't make blanket statements about what the playerbase thinks should change for ele. Therefore, Anet can't change the game to cater to how you think ele should work. >It is your the attker here i am the defer sry No, that's _not true_. You were the FIRST person to respond to ME in this thread, seemingly because you don't think having choice is a reasonable approach to finding satisfaction with the game. Being apologetic doesn't give you a license to say things that aren't true. >So you cant do any thing for the core ele out side of giving the class its own mechanic. No, that's _not true_. Making the mechanic that ALREADY exists on ele and changing it so it's unique only to ele is NOT the ONLY way to 'do anything' for it. That's nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kharmin.7683 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 > @"Zeesh.7286" said: > Can someone give a tldr? I'm a bit intimidated by 2 full pages given that the 3rd page makes no sense to me as to what even is being discussed... Honestly, at this point, it's not worth reading or a tldr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 > @"Zeesh.7286" said: > Can someone give a tldr? I'm a bit intimidated by 2 full pages given that the 3rd page makes no sense to me as to what even is being discussed... Some people think they speak for everyone and think the game should cater to how they think it should work at everyone else's expense. They are wrong. Some people think that making untrue statements justifies their ideas of how the game should work. That is wrong. Some people think choosing from options available to them is an unreasonable approach to ensuring they enjoy the game. That is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliamRationem.5172 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 > @"Zeesh.7286" said: > Can someone give a tldr? I'm a bit intimidated by 2 full pages given that the 3rd page makes no sense to me as to what even is being discussed... In this thread... Two people engage in an argument over the proper temperature at which Earl Grey tea should be served, but end up on a journey of self-discovery. Will they ever find true love? Tune in next week for 3 more pages of this to find out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > So you went off talking about how i am not the player base ... > > No, that's _not true_ (maybe I need to trademark this ... what do you guys think?) > > I said you are only a PART of the playerbase, so you can't make blanket statements about what the playerbase thinks should change for ele. Therefore, Anet can't change the game to cater to how you think ele should work. > > >It is your the attker here i am the defer sry > > No, that's _not true_. You were the FIRST person to respond to ME in this thread, seemingly because you don't think having choice is a reasonable approach to finding satisfaction with the game. Being apologetic doesn't give you a license to say things that aren't true. > > >So you cant do any thing for the core ele out side of giving the class its own mechanic. > > No, that's _not true_. Making the mechanic that ALREADY exists on ele and changing it so it's unique only to ele is NOT the ONLY way to 'do anything' for it. That's nonsense. > > You made the point that it was not important to point out most of the player base dose not use these forms it is. You went after the op. Mechanic like swapping a wepon on say war but most ppl would not call that an class only mechanic when the elite spec have it as well. The point that i keep making core ele is in a bad places and will always be in a bad place because it lost its only mechanic to the elite spec. and it cant be fixed till it has its own effect. We may get another elite spec in EoD and we may see core ele get nerf hard because of it like they did for HoT and PoF. This is just wrong to do for the class and ppl who play it and can never truly be fixed. When ppl have such a wrong point of view on things it is important to point out why. Please tell me why its ok for core ele not to be part of the meta in any place in gw2. This is not a chose issues this is a balance and mechanic issues any thing beyond that point of view is a detraction from what anet is doing and nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeesh.7286 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 well luckily I don't drink earl grey and I'm resigned to die alone so... *shrugs* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > So you went off talking about how i am not the player base ... > > > > No, that's _not true_ (maybe I need to trademark this ... what do you guys think?) > > > > I said you are only a PART of the playerbase, so you can't make blanket statements about what the playerbase thinks should change for ele. Therefore, Anet can't change the game to cater to how you think ele should work. > > > > >It is your the attker here i am the defer sry > > > > No, that's _not true_. You were the FIRST person to respond to ME in this thread, seemingly because you don't think having choice is a reasonable approach to finding satisfaction with the game. Being apologetic doesn't give you a license to say things that aren't true. > > > > >So you cant do any thing for the core ele out side of giving the class its own mechanic. > > > > No, that's _not true_. Making the mechanic that ALREADY exists on ele and changing it so it's unique only to ele is NOT the ONLY way to 'do anything' for it. That's nonsense. > > > > > You made the point that it was not important to point out most of the player base dose not use these forms it is. No, that's _not true_. Furthermore, it's irrelevant as well ... ele doesn't need a change because most of the player base doesn't use it. That's not even something you can confirm is true. > You went after the op. That's _not true_ and it's absurd ... suggesting he exercise choice is CERTAINLY not 'going after' the op. > Please tell me why its ok for core ele not to be part of the meta in any place in gw2 Because the game isn't designed around what is meta, it's designed around playing what you want. FINALLY we get some honesty here ... you just want ele to get a buff so it's meta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > So you went off talking about how i am not the player base ... > > > > > > No, that's _not true_ (maybe I need to trademark this ... what do you guys think?) > > > > > > I said you are only a PART of the playerbase, so you can't make blanket statements about what the playerbase thinks should change for ele. Therefore, Anet can't change the game to cater to how you think ele should work. > > > > > > >It is your the attker here i am the defer sry > > > > > > No, that's _not true_. You were the FIRST person to respond to ME in this thread, seemingly because you don't think having choice is a reasonable approach to finding satisfaction with the game. Being apologetic doesn't give you a license to say things that aren't true. > > > > > > >So you cant do any thing for the core ele out side of giving the class its own mechanic. > > > > > > No, that's _not true_. Making the mechanic that ALREADY exists on ele and changing it so it's unique only to ele is NOT the ONLY way to 'do anything' for it. That's nonsense. > > > > > > > > You made the point that it was not important to point out most of the player base dose not use these forms it is. > > No, that's _not true_. Furthermore, it's irrelevant as well. > > You went after the op. > > That's _not true_ and absurd ... suggesting he exercise choice is CERTAINLY not 'going after' the op. > > > Please tell me why its ok for core ele not to be part of the meta in any place in gw2 > > Because the game isn't designed around what is meta, it's designed around playing what you want. > Wait what most of the ele player base for sure dose not use these forms lol. You told him to play another class when they made a suggestion about ele core. Its a benchmark for if a class is doing well or not. Yes there always going to be max min players but you still can push out something in that environment that is not min max but if you cant even do that there is something wrong. Its not about being the best class with best numbers but its being able to show up at a reasonable level and core ele simply dose not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > So you went off talking about how i am not the player base ... > > > > > > > > No, that's _not true_ (maybe I need to trademark this ... what do you guys think?) > > > > > > > > I said you are only a PART of the playerbase, so you can't make blanket statements about what the playerbase thinks should change for ele. Therefore, Anet can't change the game to cater to how you think ele should work. > > > > > > > > >It is your the attker here i am the defer sry > > > > > > > > No, that's _not true_. You were the FIRST person to respond to ME in this thread, seemingly because you don't think having choice is a reasonable approach to finding satisfaction with the game. Being apologetic doesn't give you a license to say things that aren't true. > > > > > > > > >So you cant do any thing for the core ele out side of giving the class its own mechanic. > > > > > > > > No, that's _not true_. Making the mechanic that ALREADY exists on ele and changing it so it's unique only to ele is NOT the ONLY way to 'do anything' for it. That's nonsense. > > > > > > > > > > > You made the point that it was not important to point out most of the player base dose not use these forms it is. > > > > No, that's _not true_. Furthermore, it's irrelevant as well. > > > You went after the op. > > > > That's _not true_ and absurd ... suggesting he exercise choice is CERTAINLY not 'going after' the op. > > > > > Please tell me why its ok for core ele not to be part of the meta in any place in gw2 > > > > Because the game isn't designed around what is meta, it's designed around playing what you want. > > > > Wait what most of the ele player base for sure dose not use these forms lol. ... and I've pointed out it's not relevant. Just because something isn't used by most of the playerbase doesn't mean it needs to be changed. If there is options, there is ALWAYS an option that is the least popular one. > > You told him to play another class when they made a suggestion about ele core. Right ... but implying I'm attacking him by saying that's me going after the OP is _not true_. > > Its a benchmark for if a class is doing well or not. No, that's _not true_. Meta is NOT a benchmark for anything BUT what is optimal play. Is this whole misunderstanding you have based on your improper use of meta as a benchmark for class viability? Shame shame. That's meta-pushing and as you have been told multiple times, this game isn't designed around meta as a benchmark for being successful. BTW, for expedient replies, I've put the phrase _not true_ on my clipboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > So you went off talking about how i am not the player base ... > > > > > > > > > > No, that's _not true_ (maybe I need to trademark this ... what do you guys think?) > > > > > > > > > > I said you are only a PART of the playerbase, so you can't make blanket statements about what the playerbase thinks should change for ele. Therefore, Anet can't change the game to cater to how you think ele should work. > > > > > > > > > > >It is your the attker here i am the defer sry > > > > > > > > > > No, that's _not true_. You were the FIRST person to respond to ME in this thread, seemingly because you don't think having choice is a reasonable approach to finding satisfaction with the game. Being apologetic doesn't give you a license to say things that aren't true. > > > > > > > > > > >So you cant do any thing for the core ele out side of giving the class its own mechanic. > > > > > > > > > > No, that's _not true_. Making the mechanic that ALREADY exists on ele and changing it so it's unique only to ele is NOT the ONLY way to 'do anything' for it. That's nonsense. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You made the point that it was not important to point out most of the player base dose not use these forms it is. > > > > > > No, that's _not true_. Furthermore, it's irrelevant as well. > > > > You went after the op. > > > > > > That's _not true_ and absurd ... suggesting he exercise choice is CERTAINLY not 'going after' the op. > > > > > > > Please tell me why its ok for core ele not to be part of the meta in any place in gw2 > > > > > > Because the game isn't designed around what is meta, it's designed around playing what you want. > > > > > > > Wait what most of the ele player base for sure dose not use these forms lol. > > ... and I've pointed out it's not relevant. Just because something isn't used by most of the playerbase doesn't mean it needs to be changed. That kind of thinking is absurd. > > > > You told him to play another class when they made a suggestion about ele core. > > Right ... but saying that's me going after the OP is _not true_. > > > > Its a benchmark for if a class is doing well or not. > > No, that's _not true_. Meta is NOT a benchmark for anything BUT what is optimal play. > > > > > > You asked them to play another class... for ele player is that realty a bad thing to suggest to them. I am not saying it need to be the meta but that it can fit some what into what ppl want. Like being 10% of the dmg vs (max min) 14% (just examples). Yes the 4% is important but not so much to stop ppl from content but the amount of distances between core ele and weaver dps even tempest dps is much bigger to where you cant run core ele with groups. This is true for support roll as well. The big problem is every thing your going to add to core ele to fix this will buff weaver and tempest making it an endless problem (red queen in a way but not comply) so you need to have core ele its very own mechanic that can be buffed or nerf with out effect its elite spec. This is not just true for ele but true for all of the classes. The classes who have split of effects from there core to there elite spec are better balanced and you do see there core classes often as they have there own effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > So you went off talking about how i am not the player base ... > > > > > > > > > > > > No, that's _not true_ (maybe I need to trademark this ... what do you guys think?) > > > > > > > > > > > > I said you are only a PART of the playerbase, so you can't make blanket statements about what the playerbase thinks should change for ele. Therefore, Anet can't change the game to cater to how you think ele should work. > > > > > > > > > > > > >It is your the attker here i am the defer sry > > > > > > > > > > > > No, that's _not true_. You were the FIRST person to respond to ME in this thread, seemingly because you don't think having choice is a reasonable approach to finding satisfaction with the game. Being apologetic doesn't give you a license to say things that aren't true. > > > > > > > > > > > > >So you cant do any thing for the core ele out side of giving the class its own mechanic. > > > > > > > > > > > > No, that's _not true_. Making the mechanic that ALREADY exists on ele and changing it so it's unique only to ele is NOT the ONLY way to 'do anything' for it. That's nonsense. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You made the point that it was not important to point out most of the player base dose not use these forms it is. > > > > > > > > No, that's _not true_. Furthermore, it's irrelevant as well. > > > > > You went after the op. > > > > > > > > That's _not true_ and absurd ... suggesting he exercise choice is CERTAINLY not 'going after' the op. > > > > > > > > > Please tell me why its ok for core ele not to be part of the meta in any place in gw2 > > > > > > > > Because the game isn't designed around what is meta, it's designed around playing what you want. > > > > > > > > > > Wait what most of the ele player base for sure dose not use these forms lol. > > > > ... and I've pointed out it's not relevant. Just because something isn't used by most of the playerbase doesn't mean it needs to be changed. That kind of thinking is absurd. > > > > > > You told him to play another class when they made a suggestion about ele core. > > > > Right ... but saying that's me going after the OP is _not true_. > > > > > > Its a benchmark for if a class is doing well or not. > > > > No, that's _not true_. Meta is NOT a benchmark for anything BUT what is optimal play. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You asked them to play another class... for ele player is that realty a bad thing to suggest to them. No, that's _not true_. That's the INTENTION behind giving players options to choose from so they can enjoy the game, even when the game changes. > I am not saying it need to be the meta but that it can fit some what into what ppl want. And you don't speak for the whole playerbase when you say ele doesn't fit somewhat into what people want. It's _not true_ to claim ele doesn't give some of the people what they want to enjoy the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > So you went off talking about how i am not the player base ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, that's _not true_ (maybe I need to trademark this ... what do you guys think?) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I said you are only a PART of the playerbase, so you can't make blanket statements about what the playerbase thinks should change for ele. Therefore, Anet can't change the game to cater to how you think ele should work. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >It is your the attker here i am the defer sry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, that's _not true_. You were the FIRST person to respond to ME in this thread, seemingly because you don't think having choice is a reasonable approach to finding satisfaction with the game. Being apologetic doesn't give you a license to say things that aren't true. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >So you cant do any thing for the core ele out side of giving the class its own mechanic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, that's _not true_. Making the mechanic that ALREADY exists on ele and changing it so it's unique only to ele is NOT the ONLY way to 'do anything' for it. That's nonsense. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You made the point that it was not important to point out most of the player base dose not use these forms it is. > > > > > > > > > > No, that's _not true_. Furthermore, it's irrelevant as well. > > > > > > You went after the op. > > > > > > > > > > That's _not true_ and absurd ... suggesting he exercise choice is CERTAINLY not 'going after' the op. > > > > > > > > > > > Please tell me why its ok for core ele not to be part of the meta in any place in gw2 > > > > > > > > > > Because the game isn't designed around what is meta, it's designed around playing what you want. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wait what most of the ele player base for sure dose not use these forms lol. > > > > > > ... and I've pointed out it's not relevant. Just because something isn't used by most of the playerbase doesn't mean it needs to be changed. That kind of thinking is absurd. > > > > > > > > You told him to play another class when they made a suggestion about ele core. > > > > > > Right ... but saying that's me going after the OP is _not true_. > > > > > > > > Its a benchmark for if a class is doing well or not. > > > > > > No, that's _not true_. Meta is NOT a benchmark for anything BUT what is optimal play. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You asked them to play another class... for ele player is that realty a bad thing to suggest to them. > > No, that's not a bad suggestion. That's the INTENTION behind giving players options to choose from. > > > I am not saying it need to be the meta but that it can fit some what into what ppl want. > > And you don't speak for the whole playerbase when you say ele doesn't fit somewhat into what people want. It's _not true_ to claim ele doesn't give some of the people what they want to enjoy the game. It is i am not sure how you not getting this its as bad as saying "just win" to some one losing. But i live in reality and i understand space limitation for all game types. Its logic. I am not sure how you do not see your doing the same thing when you suggest to some one play another class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > It is i am not sure how you not getting this its as bad as saying "just win" to some one losing. Well, firstly, that comparison is nonsense ... you don't CHOOSE to lose ... just like all the other not true and irrelevant statements you have made in this thread. > Its logic Really? So the guy that uses untrue and irrelevant statements to justify his position is trying to school ME on logic? OK. That's funny. > I am not sure how you do not see your doing the same thing when you suggest to some one play another class. Because exercising choice to enjoy the game IS a valid and reasonable approach, despite your objections to that method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > It is i am not sure how you not getting this its as bad as saying "just win" to some one losing. > > Well, firstly, that comparison is nonsense ... you don't CHOOSE to lose ... just like all the other not true and irrelevant statements you have made in this thread. > > > Its logic > > Really? So the guy that uses untrue and irrelevant statements to justify his position is trying to school ME on logic? OK. That's funny. > > > I am not sure how you do not see your doing the same thing when you suggest to some one play another class. > > Because exercising choice to enjoy the game IS a valid and reasonable approach, despite your objections to that method. Right that the point of making it its a joke at the person expenses who are not able to do what they want to do. Ele players who want ele to be better cant realy do any thing about it out side posting on these forms its up to anet. By asking them to just play another class your telling them you have no chose in how the class is balanced and its up to anet alone so get over it. The logic is if your willing to just jump to another class then you endlessly posting here talking on my points of view in very much the same point of view i am holding to and saying is ok and your saying is not ok. My view is to stick with something not to find something else. Asking some one to move on to another class is the opposite of what your doing here. Sadly you cant do every thing solo in this game so you must work with others and by doing so you MUST provide value to them. This cut your ability to play as you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > It is i am not sure how you not getting this its as bad as saying "just win" to some one losing. > > > > Well, firstly, that comparison is nonsense ... you don't CHOOSE to lose ... just like all the other not true and irrelevant statements you have made in this thread. > > > > > Its logic > > > > Really? So the guy that uses untrue and irrelevant statements to justify his position is trying to school ME on logic? OK. That's funny. > > > > > I am not sure how you do not see your doing the same thing when you suggest to some one play another class. > > > > Because exercising choice to enjoy the game IS a valid and reasonable approach, despite your objections to that method. > > Right that the point of making it its a joke at the person expenses who are not able to do what they want to do. That's _not true_ ... you can do what you want based on the criteria you have used to make choices. If your criteria are too restrictive, you need to reconsider them. Anet can't make the game cater to individual ideas for how the game works. See, the big problem here is that lots of people don't have a problem choosing ele and teaming and being successful. So the rhetoric you are making here about ele needing change because 'balance' is just one big _not true_ story you've invented to justify ele buffs. You're just not being honest in how player choice affects people playing how they want. You're also not being honest if you think that a buff to the class mechanic will make the class more desirable for people to team with. Anet can't make the game so that EVERYTHING you want conforms to your criteria and how you want to play OR who people want to team with. This is EXACTLY the reason we have all these options to choose from in the first place. > My view is to stick with something not to find something else. Right ... so if your primary criteria for choosing a class is 'to stick with it' ... then that's more important to you than anything else. That's not a problem Anet needs to fix for you. We've already covered this so clearly you're just ignoring me. That's OK, because saying things that aren't true or irrelevant doesn't change how choice affects player game satisfaction and neither does ignoring the truth of that statement. > so you must work with others and by doing so you MUST provide value to them. This cut your ability to play as you want. That's _not true_. If you team with people that tell you to bring a certain category or level of value ... that's a CHOICE you made; you have GIVEN UP playing how you want to get into that team. Funny, you don't have a problem making all these bad choices that negatively affect how you play ... but when someone suggests making good choices for yourself, you have massive issues with that. This is the dishonesty I'm talking about. You argue that you don't want to experience negative things ... then turn around and make choices where you expose yourself to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mini Crinny.6190 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 > @"Zeesh.7286" said: > Can someone give a tldr? I'm a bit intimidated by 2 full pages given that the 3rd page makes no sense to me as to what even is being discussed... Yes on one side ele has a mechanic on another side ele has no mechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzyp.6295 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 > @"Zeesh.7286" said: > Can someone give a tldr? I'm a bit intimidated by 2 full pages given that the 3rd page makes no sense to me as to what even is being discussed... TLDR: Elementalist is a dead class, Long live the Elementalist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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