Mini Crinny.6190 Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 And the Saga continues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > I am all for letting just core ele free swap with no gobble cd and tempest / weaver have a 3 sec delay in-between swaps (tempest would get overloade at 3 sec). > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold on here ... your whole position is that ele needs it's own unique mechanic because it _lags_ the especs in performance. Now you're all in to things that widen that gap because suggesting there is no CD on ele swaps is massively broken. This is why I'm riding you so hard in this thread, because in the truth is that you simply want buffs and using untrue statements to justify it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That would be an unique mechanic if they make it a 3 sec cd swap for tempest and weaver but not for ele. > > > > Sure, but that has NOTHING to do with my point, so I will just repeat it. > > > > Your whole position is that ele needs it's own unique mechanic because it _lags_ the especs in performance but your suggestion here doesn't close that gap between ele and it's especs ... it makes that gap _larger_. That's why I'm saying you are being dishonest. You give a reason to make a change, then you make a suggestion for change that would result in the exact OPPOSITE of the reason you gave to make it. That's absurd. > > Dishonest about what? How would making the cd between swaps not the swaps them self longer for tempest much like weaver (with out the cdr of the swap them self) make the gap between ele core and tempest bigger? How would letting core ele get full benefit from all of its atument trait lines all of the time and not just during the given atument make the gap bigger? > > Maybe your confused with my suggestion? There is no confusion. > > Core ele needs its own unique mechanic and fast swaps would be a good start Hold on ... you said ele needs a unique mechanic for balance ... now you are proposing a unique mechanic that is the OPPOSITE of balancing ele. You can't honestly think no CD on attunement swaps on ele is in any possible way balanced EVEN to it's especs. If you believe that's balanced, then clearly you don't know what you are talking about. So you AREN'T interested in balance, even though you say you are. That's dishonest. This just get worse and worse. Not only are you comfortable using untrue statements to justify your reason for change, now you are comfortable with ideas that go against the very reason you stand by those untrue reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottBroChill.3254 Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > So you're whole goal here is to prevent power creep (because I'm not going to argue core isn't viable enough) by giving ele a unique mechanic? That's suspect considering I JUST quoted you as saying core ele can't be buffed without affecting it's especs ... > > See how you are contradicting yourself there? You want to PREVENT power creep with this unique mechanic ... to BUFF core ele. I'm just going to let that simmer. Dude, are you ok? You are seemingly picking out one facet of an argument and saying "so you just want that one thing now? you hypocrit!". you've been doing this to everyone on this thread. No, we were talking about another point of the argument, must i bring all the other arguments that you and I have been replying to to this comment just to appease your short memory span? It looks like you are trying to argue semantics now and it's not constructive to a discussion. You are tring to win the argument and pin a flase narrative to what I'm trying to get across. No, there a multitude of reasons why I think something needs to be done. 1. The main point being, core specs should be able to operate outside of elite specs. One of the main ways they do this and how they make especs unique is changing the profession mechanic, and making that a tradeoff. Ele has no real tradeoff. 2. Every other profession's mechanic can exist outside of their professions and could theoretically be completely removed without destroying the class. Ele cannot, eles mechanic is having unique weapon skills. You cannot adjust this without inherently unbalancing or breaking core weapon skills. Weaver has made using weapons on core more watered down due to the power of dual attacks. 3. Eles attunements as a mechanic is much like if thieves initiative and revs energy were the only part of their own respective profession mechanics, without steal and stolen skills, and without ancient echo. Anet has clearly went back and has given more to a profession (Revenant) to make its core have a tradeoff and so it has a proper mechanic, because beforehand it was pointless to play core rev. It felt terrible to play, and that sole f2 ability gave rev a lot more viability because it could be buffed outside of herald and renegade. I believe core ele is in the same boat. 4. Power creep should always be something to try and tone down, so i don't see how that's some terrible thing to think about. But no, the power creep is just a fact with every new espec, but with weaver in particular it has caused core ele to even be more indirectly nerfed. There is almost no way to improve core ele without buffing weaver and to a slighter degree tempest. Weavers benchmarks are sorta up there so any improvements to performance will cause it to be hit with a nerf bat real quick. They usually combat this by putting more power and usefulness in the core profession mechanic, something that isn't accessable to elite specs, but they cannot do this with ele. 5. Ele attunements are too ingrained into the weapons, and is really just a fancier weapon swap. The problem is that for balancing purpose, its balanced around having all four attunements and anything less or more would require a lot of numbers adjustments. So lets talk about weaver. They had an amazing idea and went over the top to accomplish it, but it indirectly screwed over core ele because all it did was make the core weapons perform so much better. So in turn, they had to nerf those weapons due to the accesability to dual skills. Dual skills had to stay strong because otherwise playing piano as weaver would be more pointless than it is now, so the rest of the weapons were "tuned down" to make weaver balance. Well that tuning down did no favors for core ele weapons. And you couldn't have an espec that uses only two attunement without completely changing how core weapons work. Ele has pinned itself into a corner where the only solution is to add stuff on top of core without a real tradeoff. My main all around argument as that, as the game is now, profession mechanics are a nice powerful add on to classes that bring something extra to the table on top of the rest of the class. Essentially, it should be somewhat standalone and should be modifiable. Various professions that have unique fighting or skill styles like attunements, initiative, or energy should count as unique aspects of how the class performs, but does not constitute a profession mechanic that is an addition on top the rest of the class. A profession mechanic should not be an altered way of how skills work because it is inherently a giant trade-off and it is more of a style and not an "extra". This isn't about prevent powercreep, although I think that should be done. This is about core ele being completely pointless to play and that their "mechanic" is not an actual mechanic, it is just how their weapons work. It is literally just weapon skills. You cannot change attunements without changing the weapon skills and vice versa because they are one in the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 > @"ScottBroChill.3254" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > So you're whole goal here is to prevent power creep (because I'm not going to argue core isn't viable enough) by giving ele a unique mechanic? That's suspect considering I JUST quoted you as saying core ele can't be buffed without affecting it's especs ... > > > > See how you are contradicting yourself there? You want to PREVENT power creep with this unique mechanic ... to BUFF core ele. I'm just going to let that simmer. > > Dude, are you ok? I'm fine. I just don't think it's reasonable to claim you want a change class mechanic just for ele to prevent power creep and to buff it. That doesn't make sense. I get your argument is that profession mechanics are a nice powerful add on to classes that bring something extra to the table on top of the rest of the class. Swapping attunements does that. They _always_ did that. The complaint here is contingent on the existence of ele especs, not the lack of 'bringing something extra' to the class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > I am all for letting just core ele free swap with no gobble cd and tempest / weaver have a 3 sec delay in-between swaps (tempest would get overloade at 3 sec). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold on here ... your whole position is that ele needs it's own unique mechanic because it _lags_ the especs in performance. Now you're all in to things that widen that gap because suggesting there is no CD on ele swaps is massively broken. This is why I'm riding you so hard in this thread, because in the truth is that you simply want buffs and using untrue statements to justify it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That would be an unique mechanic if they make it a 3 sec cd swap for tempest and weaver but not for ele. > > > > > > Sure, but that has NOTHING to do with my point, so I will just repeat it. > > > > > > Your whole position is that ele needs it's own unique mechanic because it _lags_ the especs in performance but your suggestion here doesn't close that gap between ele and it's especs ... it makes that gap _larger_. That's why I'm saying you are being dishonest. You give a reason to make a change, then you make a suggestion for change that would result in the exact OPPOSITE of the reason you gave to make it. That's absurd. > > > > Dishonest about what? How would making the cd between swaps not the swaps them self longer for tempest much like weaver (with out the cdr of the swap them self) make the gap between ele core and tempest bigger? How would letting core ele get full benefit from all of its atument trait lines all of the time and not just during the given atument make the gap bigger? > > > > Maybe your confused with my suggestion? > > There is no confusion. > > > > Core ele needs its own unique mechanic and fast swaps would be a good start > > Hold on ... you said ele needs a unique mechanic for balance ... now you are proposing a unique mechanic that is the OPPOSITE of balancing ele. You can't honestly think no CD on attunement swaps on ele is in any possible way balanced EVEN to it's especs. If you believe that's balanced, then clearly you don't know what you are talking about. > > So you AREN'T interested in balance, even though you say you are. That's dishonest. This just get worse and worse. Not only are you comfortable using untrue statements to justify your reason for change, now you are comfortable with ideas that go against the very reason you stand by those untrue reasons. > > I am saying core ele keeps the swap the way they are and tempest mostly has a gobble cd of 3 sec in-between swaps like weaver but normal cd when swaping out of an atument. How is that not balancing the classes? How is that dishonest? Your just making statements with out backing them up at this point. That why most ppl think your saying nothing with your post because you are effectively saying "i disagree" and nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > I am all for letting just core ele free swap with no gobble cd and tempest / weaver have a 3 sec delay in-between swaps (tempest would get overloade at 3 sec). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold on here ... your whole position is that ele needs it's own unique mechanic because it _lags_ the especs in performance. Now you're all in to things that widen that gap because suggesting there is no CD on ele swaps is massively broken. This is why I'm riding you so hard in this thread, because in the truth is that you simply want buffs and using untrue statements to justify it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That would be an unique mechanic if they make it a 3 sec cd swap for tempest and weaver but not for ele. > > > > > > > > Sure, but that has NOTHING to do with my point, so I will just repeat it. > > > > > > > > Your whole position is that ele needs it's own unique mechanic because it _lags_ the especs in performance but your suggestion here doesn't close that gap between ele and it's especs ... it makes that gap _larger_. That's why I'm saying you are being dishonest. You give a reason to make a change, then you make a suggestion for change that would result in the exact OPPOSITE of the reason you gave to make it. That's absurd. > > > > > > Dishonest about what? How would making the cd between swaps not the swaps them self longer for tempest much like weaver (with out the cdr of the swap them self) make the gap between ele core and tempest bigger? How would letting core ele get full benefit from all of its atument trait lines all of the time and not just during the given atument make the gap bigger? > > > > > > Maybe your confused with my suggestion? > > > > There is no confusion. > > > > > > Core ele needs its own unique mechanic and fast swaps would be a good start > > > > Hold on ... you said ele needs a unique mechanic for balance ... now you are proposing a unique mechanic that is the OPPOSITE of balancing ele. You can't honestly think no CD on attunement swaps on ele is in any possible way balanced EVEN to it's especs. If you believe that's balanced, then clearly you don't know what you are talking about. > > > > So you AREN'T interested in balance, even though you say you are. That's dishonest. This just get worse and worse. Not only are you comfortable using untrue statements to justify your reason for change, now you are comfortable with ideas that go against the very reason you stand by those untrue reasons. > > > > > > I am saying core ele keeps the swap the way they are and tempest mostly has a gobble cd of 3 sec in-between swaps like weaver but normal cd when swaping out of an atument. How is that not balancing the classes? How is that dishonest? So this whole thread you are complaining about balance between core and especs and saying ele needs a unique class mechanic ... and now you are saying ele keeps swap the way it is? THAT is what is dishonest here ... is that you are just looking for changes that aren't even related to why you say they need to happen. At this point, no one can take anything you are saying seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > I am all for letting just core ele free swap with no gobble cd and tempest / weaver have a 3 sec delay in-between swaps (tempest would get overloade at 3 sec). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold on here ... your whole position is that ele needs it's own unique mechanic because it _lags_ the especs in performance. Now you're all in to things that widen that gap because suggesting there is no CD on ele swaps is massively broken. This is why I'm riding you so hard in this thread, because in the truth is that you simply want buffs and using untrue statements to justify it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That would be an unique mechanic if they make it a 3 sec cd swap for tempest and weaver but not for ele. > > > > > > > > > > Sure, but that has NOTHING to do with my point, so I will just repeat it. > > > > > > > > > > Your whole position is that ele needs it's own unique mechanic because it _lags_ the especs in performance but your suggestion here doesn't close that gap between ele and it's especs ... it makes that gap _larger_. That's why I'm saying you are being dishonest. You give a reason to make a change, then you make a suggestion for change that would result in the exact OPPOSITE of the reason you gave to make it. That's absurd. > > > > > > > > Dishonest about what? How would making the cd between swaps not the swaps them self longer for tempest much like weaver (with out the cdr of the swap them self) make the gap between ele core and tempest bigger? How would letting core ele get full benefit from all of its atument trait lines all of the time and not just during the given atument make the gap bigger? > > > > > > > > Maybe your confused with my suggestion? > > > > > > There is no confusion. > > > > > > > > Core ele needs its own unique mechanic and fast swaps would be a good start > > > > > > Hold on ... you said ele needs a unique mechanic for balance ... now you are proposing a unique mechanic that is the OPPOSITE of balancing ele. You can't honestly think no CD on attunement swaps on ele is in any possible way balanced EVEN to it's especs. If you believe that's balanced, then clearly you don't know what you are talking about. > > > > > > So you AREN'T interested in balance, even though you say you are. That's dishonest. This just get worse and worse. Not only are you comfortable using untrue statements to justify your reason for change, now you are comfortable with ideas that go against the very reason you stand by those untrue reasons. > > > > > > > > > > I am saying core ele keeps the swap the way they are and tempest mostly has a gobble cd of 3 sec in-between swaps like weaver but normal cd when swaping out of an atument. How is that not balancing the classes? How is that dishonest? > > So this whole thread you are complaining about balance between core and especs and saying ele needs a unique class mechanic ... and now you are saying ele keeps swap the way it is? THAT is what is dishonest here ... is that you are just looking for changes that aren't even related to why you say they need to happen. At this point, no one can take anything you are saying seriously. No... that just part of the over all suggestion. You realty need to stop calling ppl dishonest over and over its very rude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > I am all for letting just core ele free swap with no gobble cd and tempest / weaver have a 3 sec delay in-between swaps (tempest would get overloade at 3 sec). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold on here ... your whole position is that ele needs it's own unique mechanic because it _lags_ the especs in performance. Now you're all in to things that widen that gap because suggesting there is no CD on ele swaps is massively broken. This is why I'm riding you so hard in this thread, because in the truth is that you simply want buffs and using untrue statements to justify it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That would be an unique mechanic if they make it a 3 sec cd swap for tempest and weaver but not for ele. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure, but that has NOTHING to do with my point, so I will just repeat it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Your whole position is that ele needs it's own unique mechanic because it _lags_ the especs in performance but your suggestion here doesn't close that gap between ele and it's especs ... it makes that gap _larger_. That's why I'm saying you are being dishonest. You give a reason to make a change, then you make a suggestion for change that would result in the exact OPPOSITE of the reason you gave to make it. That's absurd. > > > > > > > > > > Dishonest about what? How would making the cd between swaps not the swaps them self longer for tempest much like weaver (with out the cdr of the swap them self) make the gap between ele core and tempest bigger? How would letting core ele get full benefit from all of its atument trait lines all of the time and not just during the given atument make the gap bigger? > > > > > > > > > > Maybe your confused with my suggestion? > > > > > > > > There is no confusion. > > > > > > > > > > Core ele needs its own unique mechanic and fast swaps would be a good start > > > > > > > > Hold on ... you said ele needs a unique mechanic for balance ... now you are proposing a unique mechanic that is the OPPOSITE of balancing ele. You can't honestly think no CD on attunement swaps on ele is in any possible way balanced EVEN to it's especs. If you believe that's balanced, then clearly you don't know what you are talking about. > > > > > > > > So you AREN'T interested in balance, even though you say you are. That's dishonest. This just get worse and worse. Not only are you comfortable using untrue statements to justify your reason for change, now you are comfortable with ideas that go against the very reason you stand by those untrue reasons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am saying core ele keeps the swap the way they are and tempest mostly has a gobble cd of 3 sec in-between swaps like weaver but normal cd when swaping out of an atument. How is that not balancing the classes? How is that dishonest? > > > > So this whole thread you are complaining about balance between core and especs and saying ele needs a unique class mechanic ... and now you are saying ele keeps swap the way it is? THAT is what is dishonest here ... is that you are just looking for changes that aren't even related to why you say they need to happen. At this point, no one can take anything you are saying seriously. > > No... that just part of the over all suggestion. I KNOW it's part of the over all suggestion, and that suggestion is based on something that is _not true_. Ele do not need a unique class mechanic to balance ... and YOU just proved it by contradicting yourself saying core ele keeps the swap the way they are. Even YOU don't believe the things you are saying because you contradict yourself between your reasoning for change and the changes you suggest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > I am all for letting just core ele free swap with no gobble cd and tempest / weaver have a 3 sec delay in-between swaps (tempest would get overloade at 3 sec). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold on here ... your whole position is that ele needs it's own unique mechanic because it _lags_ the especs in performance. Now you're all in to things that widen that gap because suggesting there is no CD on ele swaps is massively broken. This is why I'm riding you so hard in this thread, because in the truth is that you simply want buffs and using untrue statements to justify it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That would be an unique mechanic if they make it a 3 sec cd swap for tempest and weaver but not for ele. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure, but that has NOTHING to do with my point, so I will just repeat it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your whole position is that ele needs it's own unique mechanic because it _lags_ the especs in performance but your suggestion here doesn't close that gap between ele and it's especs ... it makes that gap _larger_. That's why I'm saying you are being dishonest. You give a reason to make a change, then you make a suggestion for change that would result in the exact OPPOSITE of the reason you gave to make it. That's absurd. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dishonest about what? How would making the cd between swaps not the swaps them self longer for tempest much like weaver (with out the cdr of the swap them self) make the gap between ele core and tempest bigger? How would letting core ele get full benefit from all of its atument trait lines all of the time and not just during the given atument make the gap bigger? > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe your confused with my suggestion? > > > > > > > > > > There is no confusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > Core ele needs its own unique mechanic and fast swaps would be a good start > > > > > > > > > > Hold on ... you said ele needs a unique mechanic for balance ... now you are proposing a unique mechanic that is the OPPOSITE of balancing ele. You can't honestly think no CD on attunement swaps on ele is in any possible way balanced EVEN to it's especs. If you believe that's balanced, then clearly you don't know what you are talking about. > > > > > > > > > > So you AREN'T interested in balance, even though you say you are. That's dishonest. This just get worse and worse. Not only are you comfortable using untrue statements to justify your reason for change, now you are comfortable with ideas that go against the very reason you stand by those untrue reasons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am saying core ele keeps the swap the way they are and tempest mostly has a gobble cd of 3 sec in-between swaps like weaver but normal cd when swaping out of an atument. How is that not balancing the classes? How is that dishonest? > > > > > > So this whole thread you are complaining about balance between core and especs and saying ele needs a unique class mechanic ... and now you are saying ele keeps swap the way it is? THAT is what is dishonest here ... is that you are just looking for changes that aren't even related to why you say they need to happen. At this point, no one can take anything you are saying seriously. > > > > No... that just part of the over all suggestion. You realty need to stop calling ppl dishonest over and over its very rude. > > I KNOW it's part of the over all suggestion, and that suggestion is based on something that ISN'T TRUE. Ele do not need a unique class mechanic to balance ... and you JUST proved it by contradicting yourself by saying core ele keeps the swap the way they are. Even YOU don't believe the things you are saying because you contradict yourself. > > Then how would it fix any thing if you did not think it was part of the over all suggestion? I am confused you seem to of forgot in the moment the suggestion and was looking at it as a real fix but now your see it part of big over all suggestion its no longer needed? If i believe swaping as is was its own mechanic for core ele then why would i ask tempest to have a cd between swap? Your talking in circles and forgetting part of all of this when it fits your convenient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > I am all for letting just core ele free swap with no gobble cd and tempest / weaver have a 3 sec delay in-between swaps (tempest would get overloade at 3 sec). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold on here ... your whole position is that ele needs it's own unique mechanic because it _lags_ the especs in performance. Now you're all in to things that widen that gap because suggesting there is no CD on ele swaps is massively broken. This is why I'm riding you so hard in this thread, because in the truth is that you simply want buffs and using untrue statements to justify it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That would be an unique mechanic if they make it a 3 sec cd swap for tempest and weaver but not for ele. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure, but that has NOTHING to do with my point, so I will just repeat it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your whole position is that ele needs it's own unique mechanic because it _lags_ the especs in performance but your suggestion here doesn't close that gap between ele and it's especs ... it makes that gap _larger_. That's why I'm saying you are being dishonest. You give a reason to make a change, then you make a suggestion for change that would result in the exact OPPOSITE of the reason you gave to make it. That's absurd. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dishonest about what? How would making the cd between swaps not the swaps them self longer for tempest much like weaver (with out the cdr of the swap them self) make the gap between ele core and tempest bigger? How would letting core ele get full benefit from all of its atument trait lines all of the time and not just during the given atument make the gap bigger? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe your confused with my suggestion? > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no confusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Core ele needs its own unique mechanic and fast swaps would be a good start > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold on ... you said ele needs a unique mechanic for balance ... now you are proposing a unique mechanic that is the OPPOSITE of balancing ele. You can't honestly think no CD on attunement swaps on ele is in any possible way balanced EVEN to it's especs. If you believe that's balanced, then clearly you don't know what you are talking about. > > > > > > > > > > > > So you AREN'T interested in balance, even though you say you are. That's dishonest. This just get worse and worse. Not only are you comfortable using untrue statements to justify your reason for change, now you are comfortable with ideas that go against the very reason you stand by those untrue reasons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am saying core ele keeps the swap the way they are and tempest mostly has a gobble cd of 3 sec in-between swaps like weaver but normal cd when swaping out of an atument. How is that not balancing the classes? How is that dishonest? > > > > > > > > So this whole thread you are complaining about balance between core and especs and saying ele needs a unique class mechanic ... and now you are saying ele keeps swap the way it is? THAT is what is dishonest here ... is that you are just looking for changes that aren't even related to why you say they need to happen. At this point, no one can take anything you are saying seriously. > > > > > > No... that just part of the over all suggestion. You realty need to stop calling ppl dishonest over and over its very rude. > > > > I KNOW it's part of the over all suggestion, and that suggestion is based on something that ISN'T TRUE. Ele do not need a unique class mechanic to balance ... and you JUST proved it by contradicting yourself by saying core ele keeps the swap the way they are. Even YOU don't believe the things you are saying because you contradict yourself. > > > > > > Then how would it fix any thing if you did not think it was part of the over all suggestion? Because core ele not being balanced to to especs isn't a problem. You can suggest whatever change you want ... but if it's not solving a problem, it's not a fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > I am all for letting just core ele free swap with no gobble cd and tempest / weaver have a 3 sec delay in-between swaps (tempest would get overloade at 3 sec). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold on here ... your whole position is that ele needs it's own unique mechanic because it _lags_ the especs in performance. Now you're all in to things that widen that gap because suggesting there is no CD on ele swaps is massively broken. This is why I'm riding you so hard in this thread, because in the truth is that you simply want buffs and using untrue statements to justify it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That would be an unique mechanic if they make it a 3 sec cd swap for tempest and weaver but not for ele. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure, but that has NOTHING to do with my point, so I will just repeat it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your whole position is that ele needs it's own unique mechanic because it _lags_ the especs in performance but your suggestion here doesn't close that gap between ele and it's especs ... it makes that gap _larger_. That's why I'm saying you are being dishonest. You give a reason to make a change, then you make a suggestion for change that would result in the exact OPPOSITE of the reason you gave to make it. That's absurd. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dishonest about what? How would making the cd between swaps not the swaps them self longer for tempest much like weaver (with out the cdr of the swap them self) make the gap between ele core and tempest bigger? How would letting core ele get full benefit from all of its atument trait lines all of the time and not just during the given atument make the gap bigger? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe your confused with my suggestion? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no confusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Core ele needs its own unique mechanic and fast swaps would be a good start > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold on ... you said ele needs a unique mechanic for balance ... now you are proposing a unique mechanic that is the OPPOSITE of balancing ele. You can't honestly think no CD on attunement swaps on ele is in any possible way balanced EVEN to it's especs. If you believe that's balanced, then clearly you don't know what you are talking about. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you AREN'T interested in balance, even though you say you are. That's dishonest. This just get worse and worse. Not only are you comfortable using untrue statements to justify your reason for change, now you are comfortable with ideas that go against the very reason you stand by those untrue reasons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am saying core ele keeps the swap the way they are and tempest mostly has a gobble cd of 3 sec in-between swaps like weaver but normal cd when swaping out of an atument. How is that not balancing the classes? How is that dishonest? > > > > > > > > > > So this whole thread you are complaining about balance between core and especs and saying ele needs a unique class mechanic ... and now you are saying ele keeps swap the way it is? THAT is what is dishonest here ... is that you are just looking for changes that aren't even related to why you say they need to happen. At this point, no one can take anything you are saying seriously. > > > > > > > > No... that just part of the over all suggestion. You realty need to stop calling ppl dishonest over and over its very rude. > > > > > > I KNOW it's part of the over all suggestion, and that suggestion is based on something that ISN'T TRUE. Ele do not need a unique class mechanic to balance ... and you JUST proved it by contradicting yourself by saying core ele keeps the swap the way they are. Even YOU don't believe the things you are saying because you contradict yourself. > > > > > > > > > > Then how would it fix any thing if you did not think it was part of the over all suggestion? > > Because core ele not being balanced to to especs isn't a problem. Why not? (need to add more to post) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am all for letting just core ele free swap with no gobble cd and tempest / weaver have a 3 sec delay in-between swaps (tempest would get overloade at 3 sec). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold on here ... your whole position is that ele needs it's own unique mechanic because it _lags_ the especs in performance. Now you're all in to things that widen that gap because suggesting there is no CD on ele swaps is massively broken. This is why I'm riding you so hard in this thread, because in the truth is that you simply want buffs and using untrue statements to justify it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That would be an unique mechanic if they make it a 3 sec cd swap for tempest and weaver but not for ele. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure, but that has NOTHING to do with my point, so I will just repeat it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your whole position is that ele needs it's own unique mechanic because it _lags_ the especs in performance but your suggestion here doesn't close that gap between ele and it's especs ... it makes that gap _larger_. That's why I'm saying you are being dishonest. You give a reason to make a change, then you make a suggestion for change that would result in the exact OPPOSITE of the reason you gave to make it. That's absurd. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dishonest about what? How would making the cd between swaps not the swaps them self longer for tempest much like weaver (with out the cdr of the swap them self) make the gap between ele core and tempest bigger? How would letting core ele get full benefit from all of its atument trait lines all of the time and not just during the given atument make the gap bigger? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe your confused with my suggestion? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no confusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Core ele needs its own unique mechanic and fast swaps would be a good start > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold on ... you said ele needs a unique mechanic for balance ... now you are proposing a unique mechanic that is the OPPOSITE of balancing ele. You can't honestly think no CD on attunement swaps on ele is in any possible way balanced EVEN to it's especs. If you believe that's balanced, then clearly you don't know what you are talking about. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you AREN'T interested in balance, even though you say you are. That's dishonest. This just get worse and worse. Not only are you comfortable using untrue statements to justify your reason for change, now you are comfortable with ideas that go against the very reason you stand by those untrue reasons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am saying core ele keeps the swap the way they are and tempest mostly has a gobble cd of 3 sec in-between swaps like weaver but normal cd when swaping out of an atument. How is that not balancing the classes? How is that dishonest? > > > > > > > > > > > > So this whole thread you are complaining about balance between core and especs and saying ele needs a unique class mechanic ... and now you are saying ele keeps swap the way it is? THAT is what is dishonest here ... is that you are just looking for changes that aren't even related to why you say they need to happen. At this point, no one can take anything you are saying seriously. > > > > > > > > > > No... that just part of the over all suggestion. You realty need to stop calling ppl dishonest over and over its very rude. > > > > > > > > I KNOW it's part of the over all suggestion, and that suggestion is based on something that ISN'T TRUE. Ele do not need a unique class mechanic to balance ... and you JUST proved it by contradicting yourself by saying core ele keeps the swap the way they are. Even YOU don't believe the things you are saying because you contradict yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then how would it fix any thing if you did not think it was part of the over all suggestion? > > > > Because core ele not being balanced to to especs isn't a problem. > > Why not? > (need to add more to post) Because it doesn't prevent people from taking it as a meaningful choice to play and be successful with. The requirement for balance between core and especs is just a contrived reason to justify changes you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am all for letting just core ele free swap with no gobble cd and tempest / weaver have a 3 sec delay in-between swaps (tempest would get overloade at 3 sec). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold on here ... your whole position is that ele needs it's own unique mechanic because it _lags_ the especs in performance. Now you're all in to things that widen that gap because suggesting there is no CD on ele swaps is massively broken. This is why I'm riding you so hard in this thread, because in the truth is that you simply want buffs and using untrue statements to justify it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That would be an unique mechanic if they make it a 3 sec cd swap for tempest and weaver but not for ele. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure, but that has NOTHING to do with my point, so I will just repeat it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your whole position is that ele needs it's own unique mechanic because it _lags_ the especs in performance but your suggestion here doesn't close that gap between ele and it's especs ... it makes that gap _larger_. That's why I'm saying you are being dishonest. You give a reason to make a change, then you make a suggestion for change that would result in the exact OPPOSITE of the reason you gave to make it. That's absurd. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dishonest about what? How would making the cd between swaps not the swaps them self longer for tempest much like weaver (with out the cdr of the swap them self) make the gap between ele core and tempest bigger? How would letting core ele get full benefit from all of its atument trait lines all of the time and not just during the given atument make the gap bigger? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe your confused with my suggestion? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no confusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Core ele needs its own unique mechanic and fast swaps would be a good start > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold on ... you said ele needs a unique mechanic for balance ... now you are proposing a unique mechanic that is the OPPOSITE of balancing ele. You can't honestly think no CD on attunement swaps on ele is in any possible way balanced EVEN to it's especs. If you believe that's balanced, then clearly you don't know what you are talking about. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you AREN'T interested in balance, even though you say you are. That's dishonest. This just get worse and worse. Not only are you comfortable using untrue statements to justify your reason for change, now you are comfortable with ideas that go against the very reason you stand by those untrue reasons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am saying core ele keeps the swap the way they are and tempest mostly has a gobble cd of 3 sec in-between swaps like weaver but normal cd when swaping out of an atument. How is that not balancing the classes? How is that dishonest? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So this whole thread you are complaining about balance between core and especs and saying ele needs a unique class mechanic ... and now you are saying ele keeps swap the way it is? THAT is what is dishonest here ... is that you are just looking for changes that aren't even related to why you say they need to happen. At this point, no one can take anything you are saying seriously. > > > > > > > > > > > > No... that just part of the over all suggestion. You realty need to stop calling ppl dishonest over and over its very rude. > > > > > > > > > > I KNOW it's part of the over all suggestion, and that suggestion is based on something that ISN'T TRUE. Ele do not need a unique class mechanic to balance ... and you JUST proved it by contradicting yourself by saying core ele keeps the swap the way they are. Even YOU don't believe the things you are saying because you contradict yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then how would it fix any thing if you did not think it was part of the over all suggestion? > > > > > > Because core ele not being balanced to to especs isn't a problem. > > > > Why not? > > (need to add more to post) > > Because it doesn't prevent people from taking it as a meaningful choice to play and be successful with. You do not even need classes for that you could have 1 class in the game and there still meaningful choice because meaningful choice is any time you can do any thing even slight different. Its just a slogan not a real thing. Why is it ok for core ele to be weaker then tempest and weaver? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am all for letting just core ele free swap with no gobble cd and tempest / weaver have a 3 sec delay in-between swaps (tempest would get overloade at 3 sec). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold on here ... your whole position is that ele needs it's own unique mechanic because it _lags_ the especs in performance. Now you're all in to things that widen that gap because suggesting there is no CD on ele swaps is massively broken. This is why I'm riding you so hard in this thread, because in the truth is that you simply want buffs and using untrue statements to justify it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That would be an unique mechanic if they make it a 3 sec cd swap for tempest and weaver but not for ele. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure, but that has NOTHING to do with my point, so I will just repeat it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your whole position is that ele needs it's own unique mechanic because it _lags_ the especs in performance but your suggestion here doesn't close that gap between ele and it's especs ... it makes that gap _larger_. That's why I'm saying you are being dishonest. You give a reason to make a change, then you make a suggestion for change that would result in the exact OPPOSITE of the reason you gave to make it. That's absurd. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dishonest about what? How would making the cd between swaps not the swaps them self longer for tempest much like weaver (with out the cdr of the swap them self) make the gap between ele core and tempest bigger? How would letting core ele get full benefit from all of its atument trait lines all of the time and not just during the given atument make the gap bigger? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe your confused with my suggestion? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no confusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Core ele needs its own unique mechanic and fast swaps would be a good start > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold on ... you said ele needs a unique mechanic for balance ... now you are proposing a unique mechanic that is the OPPOSITE of balancing ele. You can't honestly think no CD on attunement swaps on ele is in any possible way balanced EVEN to it's especs. If you believe that's balanced, then clearly you don't know what you are talking about. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you AREN'T interested in balance, even though you say you are. That's dishonest. This just get worse and worse. Not only are you comfortable using untrue statements to justify your reason for change, now you are comfortable with ideas that go against the very reason you stand by those untrue reasons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am saying core ele keeps the swap the way they are and tempest mostly has a gobble cd of 3 sec in-between swaps like weaver but normal cd when swaping out of an atument. How is that not balancing the classes? How is that dishonest? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So this whole thread you are complaining about balance between core and especs and saying ele needs a unique class mechanic ... and now you are saying ele keeps swap the way it is? THAT is what is dishonest here ... is that you are just looking for changes that aren't even related to why you say they need to happen. At this point, no one can take anything you are saying seriously. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No... that just part of the over all suggestion. You realty need to stop calling ppl dishonest over and over its very rude. > > > > > > > > > > > > I KNOW it's part of the over all suggestion, and that suggestion is based on something that ISN'T TRUE. Ele do not need a unique class mechanic to balance ... and you JUST proved it by contradicting yourself by saying core ele keeps the swap the way they are. Even YOU don't believe the things you are saying because you contradict yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then how would it fix any thing if you did not think it was part of the over all suggestion? > > > > > > > > Because core ele not being balanced to to especs isn't a problem. > > > > > > Why not? > > > (need to add more to post) > > > > Because it doesn't prevent people from taking it as a meaningful choice to play and be successful with. > > You do not even need classes for that you could have 1 class in the game and there still meaningful choice because meaningful choice is any time you can do any thing even slight different. Its just a slogan not a real thing. That doesn't make sense ... classes and especs exist for variety, not performance differences. > Why is it ok for core ele to be weaker then tempest and weaver? Because it doesn't prevent people from taking it as a meaningful choice to play and be successful with. That's literally the answer. It doesn't need to be. There is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am all for letting just core ele free swap with no gobble cd and tempest / weaver have a 3 sec delay in-between swaps (tempest would get overloade at 3 sec). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold on here ... your whole position is that ele needs it's own unique mechanic because it _lags_ the especs in performance. Now you're all in to things that widen that gap because suggesting there is no CD on ele swaps is massively broken. This is why I'm riding you so hard in this thread, because in the truth is that you simply want buffs and using untrue statements to justify it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That would be an unique mechanic if they make it a 3 sec cd swap for tempest and weaver but not for ele. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure, but that has NOTHING to do with my point, so I will just repeat it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your whole position is that ele needs it's own unique mechanic because it _lags_ the especs in performance but your suggestion here doesn't close that gap between ele and it's especs ... it makes that gap _larger_. That's why I'm saying you are being dishonest. You give a reason to make a change, then you make a suggestion for change that would result in the exact OPPOSITE of the reason you gave to make it. That's absurd. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dishonest about what? How would making the cd between swaps not the swaps them self longer for tempest much like weaver (with out the cdr of the swap them self) make the gap between ele core and tempest bigger? How would letting core ele get full benefit from all of its atument trait lines all of the time and not just during the given atument make the gap bigger? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe your confused with my suggestion? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no confusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Core ele needs its own unique mechanic and fast swaps would be a good start > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold on ... you said ele needs a unique mechanic for balance ... now you are proposing a unique mechanic that is the OPPOSITE of balancing ele. You can't honestly think no CD on attunement swaps on ele is in any possible way balanced EVEN to it's especs. If you believe that's balanced, then clearly you don't know what you are talking about. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you AREN'T interested in balance, even though you say you are. That's dishonest. This just get worse and worse. Not only are you comfortable using untrue statements to justify your reason for change, now you are comfortable with ideas that go against the very reason you stand by those untrue reasons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am saying core ele keeps the swap the way they are and tempest mostly has a gobble cd of 3 sec in-between swaps like weaver but normal cd when swaping out of an atument. How is that not balancing the classes? How is that dishonest? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So this whole thread you are complaining about balance between core and especs and saying ele needs a unique class mechanic ... and now you are saying ele keeps swap the way it is? THAT is what is dishonest here ... is that you are just looking for changes that aren't even related to why you say they need to happen. At this point, no one can take anything you are saying seriously. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No... that just part of the over all suggestion. You realty need to stop calling ppl dishonest over and over its very rude. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I KNOW it's part of the over all suggestion, and that suggestion is based on something that ISN'T TRUE. Ele do not need a unique class mechanic to balance ... and you JUST proved it by contradicting yourself by saying core ele keeps the swap the way they are. Even YOU don't believe the things you are saying because you contradict yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then how would it fix any thing if you did not think it was part of the over all suggestion? > > > > > > > > > > Because core ele not being balanced to to especs isn't a problem. > > > > > > > > Why not? > > > > (need to add more to post) > > > > > > Because it doesn't prevent people from taking it as a meaningful choice to play and be successful with. > > > > You do not even need classes for that you could have 1 class in the game and there still meaningful choice because meaningful choice is any time you can do any thing even slight different. Its just a slogan not a real thing. > > That doesn't make sense ... classes and especs exist for variety, not performance differences. > > > Variety is what you make of it and you can even call gear builds with in classes a means of performance differences. Why is it ok for core classes to be weaker then there elite spec.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > Why is it ok for core classes to be weaker then there elite spec.? because there is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be succussful. It's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > Why is it ok for core classes to be weaker then there elite spec.? > > because there is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be succussful. It's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it. Then an expansion is a valid requirement for a better class? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > Why is it ok for core classes to be weaker then there elite spec.? > > > > because there is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be succussful. It's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it. > > Then an expansion is a valid requirement for a better class? What I said is true with or without expansions. What do you mean 'better'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > Why is it ok for core classes to be weaker then there elite spec.? > > > > > > because there is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be succussful. It's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it. > > > > Then an expansion is a valid requirement for a better class? > > What I said is true with or without expansions. What do you mean 'better'? You have to have an expansion to get the elite spec so you cant have them with out one so i am not sure what your saying "without expansions." Not weaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > Why is it ok for core classes to be weaker then there elite spec.? > > > > > > > > because there is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be succussful. It's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it. > > > > > > Then an expansion is a valid requirement for a better class? > > > > What I said is true with or without expansions. What do you mean 'better'? > > You have to have an expansion to get the elite spec so you cant have them with out one so i am not sure what your saying "without expansions." > > Not weaker. That doesn't change what I said though. There is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be successful, regardless of how you get an espec. Therefore, it's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it. I get you are miffed that you think especs are more powerful than core and what to take issue with it ... but that's just your hangup; the game doesn't prevent using ele as a choice and being successful playing it. Performance differences are NOT a reason to give ele unique class mechanic that's different than especs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > Why is it ok for core classes to be weaker then there elite spec.? > > > > > > > > > > because there is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be succussful. It's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it. > > > > > > > > Then an expansion is a valid requirement for a better class? > > > > > > What I said is true with or without expansions. What do you mean 'better'? > > > > You have to have an expansion to get the elite spec so you cant have them with out one so i am not sure what your saying "without expansions." > > > > Not weaker. > > That doesn't change what I said though. There is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be successful, regardless of how you get an espec. Therefore, it's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it. Right your the requirement for especs is something you buy with money and some how you do not see that a problem. The core classes had meaningful choices way before especs. If any thing the core classes has more ability to very before the especs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > Why is it ok for core classes to be weaker then there elite spec.? > > > > > > > > > > > > because there is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be succussful. It's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it. > > > > > > > > > > Then an expansion is a valid requirement for a better class? > > > > > > > > What I said is true with or without expansions. What do you mean 'better'? > > > > > > You have to have an expansion to get the elite spec so you cant have them with out one so i am not sure what your saying "without expansions." > > > > > > Not weaker. > > > > That doesn't change what I said though. There is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be successful, regardless of how you get an espec. Therefore, it's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it. > > Right your the requirement for especs is something you buy with money and some how you do not see that a problem. Because there is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be successful. You keep asking me the same question, you get the same answer. > The core classes had meaningful choices way before especs. If any thing the core classes has more ability to very before the especs. They are still meaningful choices because what is meaningful to some people has nothing to do with performance. Again, we are full circle here ... Anet can't make the game so that any option you want fits your criteria to choose it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > Why is it ok for core classes to be weaker then there elite spec.? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because there is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be succussful. It's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Then an expansion is a valid requirement for a better class? > > > > > > > > > > What I said is true with or without expansions. What do you mean 'better'? > > > > > > > > You have to have an expansion to get the elite spec so you cant have them with out one so i am not sure what your saying "without expansions." > > > > > > > > Not weaker. > > > > > > That doesn't change what I said though. There is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be successful, regardless of how you get an espec. Therefore, it's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it. > > > > Right your the requirement for especs is something you buy with money and some how you do not see that a problem. > > Because there is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be successful. You keep asking me the same question, you get the same answer. > > > The core classes had meaningful choices way before especs. If any thing the core classes has more ability to very before the especs. > > They are still meaningful choices because what is meaningful to some people has nothing to do with performance. Again, we are full circle here ... Anet can't make the game so that any option you want fits your criteria to choose it. Your saying its p2w. This is my point. Well that is just YOUR criteria right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > Why is it ok for core classes to be weaker then there elite spec.? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because there is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be succussful. It's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then an expansion is a valid requirement for a better class? > > > > > > > > > > > > What I said is true with or without expansions. What do you mean 'better'? > > > > > > > > > > You have to have an expansion to get the elite spec so you cant have them with out one so i am not sure what your saying "without expansions." > > > > > > > > > > Not weaker. > > > > > > > > That doesn't change what I said though. There is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be successful, regardless of how you get an espec. Therefore, it's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it. > > > > > > Right your the requirement for especs is something you buy with money and some how you do not see that a problem. > > > > Because there is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be successful. You keep asking me the same question, you get the same answer. > > > > > The core classes had meaningful choices way before especs. If any thing the core classes has more ability to very before the especs. > > > > They are still meaningful choices because what is meaningful to some people has nothing to do with performance. Again, we are full circle here ... Anet can't make the game so that any option you want fits your criteria to choose it. > > Your saying its p2w. This is my point. I never said that ... and that's why I'm calling you out for being dishonest. If you don't like it, then stop telling me things I NEVER said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > Why is it ok for core classes to be weaker then there elite spec.? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because there is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be succussful. It's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then an expansion is a valid requirement for a better class? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I said is true with or without expansions. What do you mean 'better'? > > > > > > > > > > > > You have to have an expansion to get the elite spec so you cant have them with out one so i am not sure what your saying "without expansions." > > > > > > > > > > > > Not weaker. > > > > > > > > > > That doesn't change what I said though. There is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be successful, regardless of how you get an espec. Therefore, it's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it. > > > > > > > > Right your the requirement for especs is something you buy with money and some how you do not see that a problem. > > > > > > Because there is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be successful. You keep asking me the same question, you get the same answer. > > > > > > > The core classes had meaningful choices way before especs. If any thing the core classes has more ability to very before the especs. > > > > > > They are still meaningful choices because what is meaningful to some people has nothing to do with performance. Again, we are full circle here ... Anet can't make the game so that any option you want fits your criteria to choose it. > > > > Your saying its p2w. This is my point. > > I never said that ... and that's why I'm calling you out for being dishonest. > > Your saying a requirement is needed to be a stronger class then ones with our requirements. That requirement is an expansion that cost money. Your actively saying its ok for anet to put in content that cost money and is stronger then "free" content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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