Obtena.7952 Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > But what game type are we talking about here the op is talking about pve mostly fractals. > > > > > > > > Whatever game mode you want to talk about doesn't change the fact that what you said is NOT applicable to everyone. If you play weaver and tempest the same way you play ele, that's YOUR loss and your _CHOICE_ ... but it's not a fundamental truth that tempest and weaver play like ele and therefore ele lacks a class mechanic and needs to be fixed. You sure do want to cover all the angles ... we got the time. > > > > >You sure seem to speak for every one by suggesting there ideals are so bad ... > > > > > > > > I made NO such suggestion. I did notice you ignored this though: > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > The only thing the elite spec got was power creep over core ele and anet has done nothing more then to nerf core ele to make tempest and weaver not op vs other classes. Most tempest and weaver run staff or scepter they dont run there elite spec weapons at all because there no need to and they are nothing more then ele +1. > > > > > > > > > > What are you talking about? Sword is a popular weapon for weaver and weaver plays nothing like core ele. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But you can play tempest as a core ele if you never use its overloades you can also play weaver as if it a core ele with unravla (that and a lot of what makes weaver better is to make its swap cd even lower making it closer to a core ele game play. > > > > > > That's true ... but it doesn't change what I said. If you play weaver and tempest the same way you play ele, that's YOUR loss and your _CHOICE_ ... but it's not a fundamental truth that everyone plays tempest and weaver like ele and therefore ele lacks a class mechanic and needs to be fixed. In fact, if you DON'T play them like ele, you see why you are wrong and just how different they actually are. > > > > > > You did and the op made the suggestion i am agreeing with. > > > > OK ... You can agree with his suggestion. You keep saying it should be changed because there isn't a reason to play core ele over it's especs ... but lots of people DO play ele, for whatever reason it is they want to do so. Therefore, you're reason to change it is wrong. It's just WRONG. Sounds to me what's happening here is that there is an idea people like and are willing to say anything to be compelling to have it changed, even if those things are _wrong_. > > > > > > But your making out as if my views and the views of the op cant even be said i am not anet and i do not like the way they are running things so i committed a great crime. No I'm not. I haven't prevented you from saying anything. You've said EXACTLY what you've wanted to say so far, _even if it's not true_. Don't play the victim here ... like things you say shouldn't be challenged if that view or the things supporting it are wrong, ESPECIALLY if those things are going effect how people play the game or what choices they have. There is no cult mindset here ... unless you think being truthful and honest means you are part of a cult. In that case, sign me up ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kharmin.7683 Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > At some point you got to realize its not enofe to have 2 more "swaps" the other classes there needs to be something there a real reason to swap and right now there not. [From the Wiki](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elementalist): Although the elementalist has access to only one weapon set during combat, they effectively have the ability to switch between four different skill sets by changing attunements. There are five possible weapon sets (nine after accounting for elite specializations), giving a total of twenty (or thirty-six) when changing attunements. - - There are plenty of reasons to swap between elements, based on the situation at hand and the weapon set selected. EDIT: whoa! didn't know the font would go like that. not intentional Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > But what game type are we talking about here the op is talking about pve mostly fractals. > > > > > > > > > > Whatever game mode you want to talk about doesn't change the fact that what you said is NOT applicable to everyone. If you play weaver and tempest the same way you play ele, that's YOUR loss and your _CHOICE_ ... but it's not a fundamental truth that tempest and weaver play like ele and therefore ele lacks a class mechanic and needs to be fixed. You sure do want to cover all the angles ... we got the time. > > > > > >You sure seem to speak for every one by suggesting there ideals are so bad ... > > > > > > > > > > I made NO such suggestion. I did notice you ignored this though: > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > The only thing the elite spec got was power creep over core ele and anet has done nothing more then to nerf core ele to make tempest and weaver not op vs other classes. Most tempest and weaver run staff or scepter they dont run there elite spec weapons at all because there no need to and they are nothing more then ele +1. > > > > > > > > > > > > What are you talking about? Sword is a popular weapon for weaver and weaver plays nothing like core ele. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But you can play tempest as a core ele if you never use its overloades you can also play weaver as if it a core ele with unravla (that and a lot of what makes weaver better is to make its swap cd even lower making it closer to a core ele game play. > > > > > > > > > That's true ... but it doesn't change what I said. If you play weaver and tempest the same way you play ele, that's YOUR loss and your _CHOICE_ ... but it's not a fundamental truth that everyone plays tempest and weaver like ele and therefore ele lacks a class mechanic and needs to be fixed. In fact, if you DON'T play them like ele, you see why you are wrong and just how different they actually are. > > > > > > > > You did and the op made the suggestion i am agreeing with. > > > > > > OK ... You can agree with his suggestion. You keep saying it should be changed because there isn't a reason to play core ele over it's especs ... but lots of people DO play ele, for whatever reason it is they want to do so. Therefore, you're reason to change it is wrong. It's just WRONG. Sounds to me what's happening here is that there is an idea people like and are willing to say anything to be compelling to have it changed, even if those things are _wrong_. > > > > > > > > > > But your making out as if my views and the views of the op cant even be said i am not anet and i do not like the way they are running things so i committed a great crime. > > No I'm not. I haven't prevented you from saying anything. You've said EXACTLY what you've wanted to say so far, _even if it's not true_. > > Don't play the victim here ... like things you say shouldn't be challenged if that view or the things supporting it are wrong, ESPECIALLY if those things are going effect how people play the game or what choices they have. There is no cult mindset here ... unless you think being truthful and honest means you are part of a cult. In that case, sign me up ... > > Your playing anet as a victim here. That is very much a cult mindset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > But what game type are we talking about here the op is talking about pve mostly fractals. > > > > > > > > > > > > Whatever game mode you want to talk about doesn't change the fact that what you said is NOT applicable to everyone. If you play weaver and tempest the same way you play ele, that's YOUR loss and your _CHOICE_ ... but it's not a fundamental truth that tempest and weaver play like ele and therefore ele lacks a class mechanic and needs to be fixed. You sure do want to cover all the angles ... we got the time. > > > > > > >You sure seem to speak for every one by suggesting there ideals are so bad ... > > > > > > > > > > > > I made NO such suggestion. I did notice you ignored this though: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > The only thing the elite spec got was power creep over core ele and anet has done nothing more then to nerf core ele to make tempest and weaver not op vs other classes. Most tempest and weaver run staff or scepter they dont run there elite spec weapons at all because there no need to and they are nothing more then ele +1. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are you talking about? Sword is a popular weapon for weaver and weaver plays nothing like core ele. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But you can play tempest as a core ele if you never use its overloades you can also play weaver as if it a core ele with unravla (that and a lot of what makes weaver better is to make its swap cd even lower making it closer to a core ele game play. > > > > > > > > > > > > That's true ... but it doesn't change what I said. If you play weaver and tempest the same way you play ele, that's YOUR loss and your _CHOICE_ ... but it's not a fundamental truth that everyone plays tempest and weaver like ele and therefore ele lacks a class mechanic and needs to be fixed. In fact, if you DON'T play them like ele, you see why you are wrong and just how different they actually are. > > > > > > > > > > You did and the op made the suggestion i am agreeing with. > > > > > > > > OK ... You can agree with his suggestion. You keep saying it should be changed because there isn't a reason to play core ele over it's especs ... but lots of people DO play ele, for whatever reason it is they want to do so. Therefore, you're reason to change it is wrong. It's just WRONG. Sounds to me what's happening here is that there is an idea people like and are willing to say anything to be compelling to have it changed, even if those things are _wrong_. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But your making out as if my views and the views of the op cant even be said i am not anet and i do not like the way they are running things so i committed a great crime. > > > > No I'm not. I haven't prevented you from saying anything. You've said EXACTLY what you've wanted to say so far, _even if it's not true_. > > > > Don't play the victim here ... like things you say shouldn't be challenged if that view or the things supporting it are wrong, ESPECIALLY if those things are going effect how people play the game or what choices they have. There is no cult mindset here ... unless you think being truthful and honest means you are part of a cult. In that case, sign me up ... > > > > > > Your playing anet as a victim here. > > That is very much a cult mindset. That makes no sense and has nothing to do with the topic. We have been given choice and if something doesn't fit your criteria, you don't choose it ... that shouldn't even NEED to be said, but clearly people have forgot their ability to choose freely in this game (or have done so because they have an agenda to push for a change they want). That's not some unreasonable bit of advice ... that's the INTENTION for how the game works. In fact, that's the intention of how EVERY multi-classed MMO works. If ele is deficient, don't justify a fix for that based on untrue statements that it doesn't have a class mechanic, that especs don't play different than ele or that there aren't reasons to choose playing ele. Those statements are _false_ making those justifications _absurd_. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > But what game type are we talking about here the op is talking about pve mostly fractals. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whatever game mode you want to talk about doesn't change the fact that what you said is NOT applicable to everyone. If you play weaver and tempest the same way you play ele, that's YOUR loss and your _CHOICE_ ... but it's not a fundamental truth that tempest and weaver play like ele and therefore ele lacks a class mechanic and needs to be fixed. You sure do want to cover all the angles ... we got the time. > > > > > > > >You sure seem to speak for every one by suggesting there ideals are so bad ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I made NO such suggestion. I did notice you ignored this though: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > The only thing the elite spec got was power creep over core ele and anet has done nothing more then to nerf core ele to make tempest and weaver not op vs other classes. Most tempest and weaver run staff or scepter they dont run there elite spec weapons at all because there no need to and they are nothing more then ele +1. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are you talking about? Sword is a popular weapon for weaver and weaver plays nothing like core ele. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But you can play tempest as a core ele if you never use its overloades you can also play weaver as if it a core ele with unravla (that and a lot of what makes weaver better is to make its swap cd even lower making it closer to a core ele game play. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's true ... but it doesn't change what I said. If you play weaver and tempest the same way you play ele, that's YOUR loss and your _CHOICE_ ... but it's not a fundamental truth that everyone plays tempest and weaver like ele and therefore ele lacks a class mechanic and needs to be fixed. In fact, if you DON'T play them like ele, you see why you are wrong and just how different they actually are. > > > > > > > > > > > > You did and the op made the suggestion i am agreeing with. > > > > > > > > > > OK ... You can agree with his suggestion. You keep saying it should be changed because there isn't a reason to play core ele over it's especs ... but lots of people DO play ele, for whatever reason it is they want to do so. Therefore, you're reason to change it is wrong. It's just WRONG. Sounds to me what's happening here is that there is an idea people like and are willing to say anything to be compelling to have it changed, even if those things are _wrong_. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But your making out as if my views and the views of the op cant even be said i am not anet and i do not like the way they are running things so i committed a great crime. > > > > > > No I'm not. I haven't prevented you from saying anything. You've said EXACTLY what you've wanted to say so far, _even if it's not true_. > > > > > > Don't play the victim here ... like things you say shouldn't be challenged if that view or the things supporting it are wrong, ESPECIALLY if those things are going effect how people play the game or what choices they have. There is no cult mindset here ... unless you think being truthful and honest means you are part of a cult. In that case, sign me up ... > > > > > > > > > > Your playing anet as a victim here. > > > > That is very much a cult mindset. > > That makes no sense and has nothing to do with the topic. > > We have been given choice and if something doesn't fit your criteria, you don't choose it. That's not some unreasonable bit of advice ... that's the INTENTION for how the game works. In fact, that's the intention of how EVERY multi-classed MMO works. > > If ele is deficient, don't justify a fix for that based on untrue statements that it doesn't have a class mechanic, that especs don't play different than ele or that there aren't reasons to choose playing ele. Those statements are _false_ making those justifications _absurd_. > > You went way off-topic when you ask ppl not to play the class over looking at the suggestion. What about there suggestion do you not like lets not talk about anet position on the game but YOUR views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > But what game type are we talking about here the op is talking about pve mostly fractals. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whatever game mode you want to talk about doesn't change the fact that what you said is NOT applicable to everyone. If you play weaver and tempest the same way you play ele, that's YOUR loss and your _CHOICE_ ... but it's not a fundamental truth that tempest and weaver play like ele and therefore ele lacks a class mechanic and needs to be fixed. You sure do want to cover all the angles ... we got the time. > > > > > > > > >You sure seem to speak for every one by suggesting there ideals are so bad ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I made NO such suggestion. I did notice you ignored this though: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > The only thing the elite spec got was power creep over core ele and anet has done nothing more then to nerf core ele to make tempest and weaver not op vs other classes. Most tempest and weaver run staff or scepter they dont run there elite spec weapons at all because there no need to and they are nothing more then ele +1. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are you talking about? Sword is a popular weapon for weaver and weaver plays nothing like core ele. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But you can play tempest as a core ele if you never use its overloades you can also play weaver as if it a core ele with unravla (that and a lot of what makes weaver better is to make its swap cd even lower making it closer to a core ele game play. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's true ... but it doesn't change what I said. If you play weaver and tempest the same way you play ele, that's YOUR loss and your _CHOICE_ ... but it's not a fundamental truth that everyone plays tempest and weaver like ele and therefore ele lacks a class mechanic and needs to be fixed. In fact, if you DON'T play them like ele, you see why you are wrong and just how different they actually are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You did and the op made the suggestion i am agreeing with. > > > > > > > > > > > > OK ... You can agree with his suggestion. You keep saying it should be changed because there isn't a reason to play core ele over it's especs ... but lots of people DO play ele, for whatever reason it is they want to do so. Therefore, you're reason to change it is wrong. It's just WRONG. Sounds to me what's happening here is that there is an idea people like and are willing to say anything to be compelling to have it changed, even if those things are _wrong_. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But your making out as if my views and the views of the op cant even be said i am not anet and i do not like the way they are running things so i committed a great crime. > > > > > > > > No I'm not. I haven't prevented you from saying anything. You've said EXACTLY what you've wanted to say so far, _even if it's not true_. > > > > > > > > Don't play the victim here ... like things you say shouldn't be challenged if that view or the things supporting it are wrong, ESPECIALLY if those things are going effect how people play the game or what choices they have. There is no cult mindset here ... unless you think being truthful and honest means you are part of a cult. In that case, sign me up ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your playing anet as a victim here. > > > > > > That is very much a cult mindset. > > > > That makes no sense and has nothing to do with the topic. > > > > We have been given choice and if something doesn't fit your criteria, you don't choose it. That's not some unreasonable bit of advice ... that's the INTENTION for how the game works. In fact, that's the intention of how EVERY multi-classed MMO works. > > > > If ele is deficient, don't justify a fix for that based on untrue statements that it doesn't have a class mechanic, that especs don't play different than ele or that there aren't reasons to choose playing ele. Those statements are _false_ making those justifications _absurd_. > > > > > > You went way off-topic when you ask ppl not to play the class over looking at the suggestion. What about there suggestion do you not like lets not talk about anet position on the game but YOUR views. I didn't ask anything to anyone. I'm reminding people why we have been given choice and if something doesn't fit your criteria, you don't choose it ... that shouldn't even NEED to be said, but clearly people have forgot their ability to choose freely in this game (or have done so because they have an agenda to push for a change they want). What I don't like about the suggestion? Easy, it's being justified by something that ISN'T TRUE. It's continually being justified by additional untruths you keep making. Again, maybe it's a good idea but don't pretend it's fixing some problem that exists only based on things that aren't true. You aren't actually fixing any real problem in that case. at that point, you're just pushing something you want and as I've already said, the game can't cater to things each player wants because everyone doesn't want the same things ... and that's why we are given LOTS of choice. So you see, again, as much as you want to dismiss the concept of choice ... it's real and it's intentional. You aren't going to justify a change if the solution already exists through choices we can make... ESPECIALLY if that change is only being justified based on untruthful statements. That's absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > But what game type are we talking about here the op is talking about pve mostly fractals. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whatever game mode you want to talk about doesn't change the fact that what you said is NOT applicable to everyone. If you play weaver and tempest the same way you play ele, that's YOUR loss and your _CHOICE_ ... but it's not a fundamental truth that tempest and weaver play like ele and therefore ele lacks a class mechanic and needs to be fixed. You sure do want to cover all the angles ... we got the time. > > > > > > > > > >You sure seem to speak for every one by suggesting there ideals are so bad ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I made NO such suggestion. I did notice you ignored this though: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing the elite spec got was power creep over core ele and anet has done nothing more then to nerf core ele to make tempest and weaver not op vs other classes. Most tempest and weaver run staff or scepter they dont run there elite spec weapons at all because there no need to and they are nothing more then ele +1. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are you talking about? Sword is a popular weapon for weaver and weaver plays nothing like core ele. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But you can play tempest as a core ele if you never use its overloades you can also play weaver as if it a core ele with unravla (that and a lot of what makes weaver better is to make its swap cd even lower making it closer to a core ele game play. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's true ... but it doesn't change what I said. If you play weaver and tempest the same way you play ele, that's YOUR loss and your _CHOICE_ ... but it's not a fundamental truth that everyone plays tempest and weaver like ele and therefore ele lacks a class mechanic and needs to be fixed. In fact, if you DON'T play them like ele, you see why you are wrong and just how different they actually are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You did and the op made the suggestion i am agreeing with. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK ... You can agree with his suggestion. You keep saying it should be changed because there isn't a reason to play core ele over it's especs ... but lots of people DO play ele, for whatever reason it is they want to do so. Therefore, you're reason to change it is wrong. It's just WRONG. Sounds to me what's happening here is that there is an idea people like and are willing to say anything to be compelling to have it changed, even if those things are _wrong_. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But your making out as if my views and the views of the op cant even be said i am not anet and i do not like the way they are running things so i committed a great crime. > > > > > > > > > > No I'm not. I haven't prevented you from saying anything. You've said EXACTLY what you've wanted to say so far, _even if it's not true_. > > > > > > > > > > Don't play the victim here ... like things you say shouldn't be challenged if that view or the things supporting it are wrong, ESPECIALLY if those things are going effect how people play the game or what choices they have. There is no cult mindset here ... unless you think being truthful and honest means you are part of a cult. In that case, sign me up ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your playing anet as a victim here. > > > > > > > > That is very much a cult mindset. > > > > > > That makes no sense and has nothing to do with the topic. > > > > > > We have been given choice and if something doesn't fit your criteria, you don't choose it. That's not some unreasonable bit of advice ... that's the INTENTION for how the game works. In fact, that's the intention of how EVERY multi-classed MMO works. > > > > > > If ele is deficient, don't justify a fix for that based on untrue statements that it doesn't have a class mechanic, that especs don't play different than ele or that there aren't reasons to choose playing ele. Those statements are _false_ making those justifications _absurd_. > > > > > > > > > > You went way off-topic when you ask ppl not to play the class over looking at the suggestion. What about there suggestion do you not like lets not talk about anet position on the game but YOUR views. > > I didn't ask anything to anyone. I'm reminding people why we have been given choice and if something doesn't fit your criteria, you don't choose it ... that shouldn't even NEED to be said, but clearly people have forgot their ability to choose freely in this game (or have done so because they have an agenda to push for a change they want). > > What I don't like about the suggestion? Easy, it's being justified by something that ISN'T TRUE. It's continually being justified by additional untruths you keep making. Again, maybe it's a good idea but don't pretend it's fixing some problem that exists only based on things that aren't true. You aren't actually fixing any real problem in that case. at that point, you're just pushing something you want and as I've already said, the game can't cater to things each player wants because everyone doesn't want the same things > > ... and that's why we are given LOTS of choice. So you see, again, as much as you want to dismiss the concept of choice ... it's real and it's intentional. You aren't going to justify a change if the solution already exists through choices we can make... ESPECIALLY if that change is only being justified based on untruthful statements. That's absurd. And you do not think ppl would get "quit the class because you want to update it" vibe from what you said? Here a thing try to get your ideals out in small statements it looks like your just deflecting questioning at this point. Any way the OP suggestion would let core ele have better burst in both fire and air even water and earth would have real dmg. the +150 power means a lot of dmg sadly its only fire for core but by letting it have an effect in the other atuments makes the core ele a "fire" ele all of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > But what game type are we talking about here the op is talking about pve mostly fractals. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whatever game mode you want to talk about doesn't change the fact that what you said is NOT applicable to everyone. If you play weaver and tempest the same way you play ele, that's YOUR loss and your _CHOICE_ ... but it's not a fundamental truth that tempest and weaver play like ele and therefore ele lacks a class mechanic and needs to be fixed. You sure do want to cover all the angles ... we got the time. > > > > > > > > > > >You sure seem to speak for every one by suggesting there ideals are so bad ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I made NO such suggestion. I did notice you ignored this though: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing the elite spec got was power creep over core ele and anet has done nothing more then to nerf core ele to make tempest and weaver not op vs other classes. Most tempest and weaver run staff or scepter they dont run there elite spec weapons at all because there no need to and they are nothing more then ele +1. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are you talking about? Sword is a popular weapon for weaver and weaver plays nothing like core ele. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But you can play tempest as a core ele if you never use its overloades you can also play weaver as if it a core ele with unravla (that and a lot of what makes weaver better is to make its swap cd even lower making it closer to a core ele game play. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's true ... but it doesn't change what I said. If you play weaver and tempest the same way you play ele, that's YOUR loss and your _CHOICE_ ... but it's not a fundamental truth that everyone plays tempest and weaver like ele and therefore ele lacks a class mechanic and needs to be fixed. In fact, if you DON'T play them like ele, you see why you are wrong and just how different they actually are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You did and the op made the suggestion i am agreeing with. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK ... You can agree with his suggestion. You keep saying it should be changed because there isn't a reason to play core ele over it's especs ... but lots of people DO play ele, for whatever reason it is they want to do so. Therefore, you're reason to change it is wrong. It's just WRONG. Sounds to me what's happening here is that there is an idea people like and are willing to say anything to be compelling to have it changed, even if those things are _wrong_. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But your making out as if my views and the views of the op cant even be said i am not anet and i do not like the way they are running things so i committed a great crime. > > > > > > > > > > > > No I'm not. I haven't prevented you from saying anything. You've said EXACTLY what you've wanted to say so far, _even if it's not true_. > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't play the victim here ... like things you say shouldn't be challenged if that view or the things supporting it are wrong, ESPECIALLY if those things are going effect how people play the game or what choices they have. There is no cult mindset here ... unless you think being truthful and honest means you are part of a cult. In that case, sign me up ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your playing anet as a victim here. > > > > > > > > > > That is very much a cult mindset. > > > > > > > > That makes no sense and has nothing to do with the topic. > > > > > > > > We have been given choice and if something doesn't fit your criteria, you don't choose it. That's not some unreasonable bit of advice ... that's the INTENTION for how the game works. In fact, that's the intention of how EVERY multi-classed MMO works. > > > > > > > > If ele is deficient, don't justify a fix for that based on untrue statements that it doesn't have a class mechanic, that especs don't play different than ele or that there aren't reasons to choose playing ele. Those statements are _false_ making those justifications _absurd_. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You went way off-topic when you ask ppl not to play the class over looking at the suggestion. What about there suggestion do you not like lets not talk about anet position on the game but YOUR views. > > > > I didn't ask anything to anyone. I'm reminding people why we have been given choice and if something doesn't fit your criteria, you don't choose it ... that shouldn't even NEED to be said, but clearly people have forgot their ability to choose freely in this game (or have done so because they have an agenda to push for a change they want). > > > > What I don't like about the suggestion? Easy, it's being justified by something that ISN'T TRUE. It's continually being justified by additional untruths you keep making. Again, maybe it's a good idea but don't pretend it's fixing some problem that exists only based on things that aren't true. You aren't actually fixing any real problem in that case. at that point, you're just pushing something you want and as I've already said, the game can't cater to things each player wants because everyone doesn't want the same things > > > > ... and that's why we are given LOTS of choice. So you see, again, as much as you want to dismiss the concept of choice ... it's real and it's intentional. You aren't going to justify a change if the solution already exists through choices we can make... ESPECIALLY if that change is only being justified based on untruthful statements. That's absurd. > > And you do not think ppl would get "quit the class because you want to update it" vibe from what you said? Why should they _not_ consider changing class if the class they play doesn't satisfy the way they want to play the game AND their might be a better choice for them that WILL satisfy the way they want to play? I mean, what's so wrong about a quitting a class you don't like to play one you do? That's not as unreasonable as you think it sounds. It's DEFINITELY NOT as unreasonable as suggesting Anet change the class so it DOES satisfy how any particular group of people want it to play. > Here a thing try to get your ideals out in small statements it looks like your just deflecting questioning at this point. I'm deflecting NO questions. I've answered ALL your questions you have asked me so far ... even the nonsense ones that aren't related to the thread. That is an unfair and dishonest accusation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > But what game type are we talking about here the op is talking about pve mostly fractals. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whatever game mode you want to talk about doesn't change the fact that what you said is NOT applicable to everyone. If you play weaver and tempest the same way you play ele, that's YOUR loss and your _CHOICE_ ... but it's not a fundamental truth that tempest and weaver play like ele and therefore ele lacks a class mechanic and needs to be fixed. You sure do want to cover all the angles ... we got the time. > > > > > > > > > > > >You sure seem to speak for every one by suggesting there ideals are so bad ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I made NO such suggestion. I did notice you ignored this though: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing the elite spec got was power creep over core ele and anet has done nothing more then to nerf core ele to make tempest and weaver not op vs other classes. Most tempest and weaver run staff or scepter they dont run there elite spec weapons at all because there no need to and they are nothing more then ele +1. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are you talking about? Sword is a popular weapon for weaver and weaver plays nothing like core ele. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But you can play tempest as a core ele if you never use its overloades you can also play weaver as if it a core ele with unravla (that and a lot of what makes weaver better is to make its swap cd even lower making it closer to a core ele game play. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's true ... but it doesn't change what I said. If you play weaver and tempest the same way you play ele, that's YOUR loss and your _CHOICE_ ... but it's not a fundamental truth that everyone plays tempest and weaver like ele and therefore ele lacks a class mechanic and needs to be fixed. In fact, if you DON'T play them like ele, you see why you are wrong and just how different they actually are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You did and the op made the suggestion i am agreeing with. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK ... You can agree with his suggestion. You keep saying it should be changed because there isn't a reason to play core ele over it's especs ... but lots of people DO play ele, for whatever reason it is they want to do so. Therefore, you're reason to change it is wrong. It's just WRONG. Sounds to me what's happening here is that there is an idea people like and are willing to say anything to be compelling to have it changed, even if those things are _wrong_. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But your making out as if my views and the views of the op cant even be said i am not anet and i do not like the way they are running things so i committed a great crime. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No I'm not. I haven't prevented you from saying anything. You've said EXACTLY what you've wanted to say so far, _even if it's not true_. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't play the victim here ... like things you say shouldn't be challenged if that view or the things supporting it are wrong, ESPECIALLY if those things are going effect how people play the game or what choices they have. There is no cult mindset here ... unless you think being truthful and honest means you are part of a cult. In that case, sign me up ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your playing anet as a victim here. > > > > > > > > > > > > That is very much a cult mindset. > > > > > > > > > > That makes no sense and has nothing to do with the topic. > > > > > > > > > > We have been given choice and if something doesn't fit your criteria, you don't choose it. That's not some unreasonable bit of advice ... that's the INTENTION for how the game works. In fact, that's the intention of how EVERY multi-classed MMO works. > > > > > > > > > > If ele is deficient, don't justify a fix for that based on untrue statements that it doesn't have a class mechanic, that especs don't play different than ele or that there aren't reasons to choose playing ele. Those statements are _false_ making those justifications _absurd_. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You went way off-topic when you ask ppl not to play the class over looking at the suggestion. What about there suggestion do you not like lets not talk about anet position on the game but YOUR views. > > > > > > I didn't ask anything to anyone. I'm reminding people why we have been given choice and if something doesn't fit your criteria, you don't choose it ... that shouldn't even NEED to be said, but clearly people have forgot their ability to choose freely in this game (or have done so because they have an agenda to push for a change they want). > > > > > > What I don't like about the suggestion? Easy, it's being justified by something that ISN'T TRUE. It's continually being justified by additional untruths you keep making. Again, maybe it's a good idea but don't pretend it's fixing some problem that exists only based on things that aren't true. You aren't actually fixing any real problem in that case. at that point, you're just pushing something you want and as I've already said, the game can't cater to things each player wants because everyone doesn't want the same things > > > > > > ... and that's why we are given LOTS of choice. So you see, again, as much as you want to dismiss the concept of choice ... it's real and it's intentional. You aren't going to justify a change if the solution already exists through choices we can make... ESPECIALLY if that change is only being justified based on untruthful statements. That's absurd. > > > > And you do not think ppl would get "quit the class because you want to update it" vibe from what you said? > > Why should they not consider changing class if the class they play doesn't satisfy the way they want to play the game? > Well i made the point a few times now and it all ties these things together. To make the eleit spec classes more "balanced" anet has nerfed core ele over and over with out any real though for the core ele use. So we talked about sword on weaver well the reason why it of more use was because of the staff ele nerfs. This hit the core ele hard as it was the main dps wepon. To make tempest less all in support healing they went after staff healing as well. Because of tempest aura up times they did a general nerf to aura duration which hit core ele hard. The same thing happen with the old fury on atument swap in arcain that was nerfed because of the elite spec. Every thing that is wrong with core ele NOW is because of nerfs to the class to balance the elite spec. I even think the on overload effects where hit because of tempest not because of ele core swaping being stronger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > But what game type are we talking about here the op is talking about pve mostly fractals. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whatever game mode you want to talk about doesn't change the fact that what you said is NOT applicable to everyone. If you play weaver and tempest the same way you play ele, that's YOUR loss and your _CHOICE_ ... but it's not a fundamental truth that tempest and weaver play like ele and therefore ele lacks a class mechanic and needs to be fixed. You sure do want to cover all the angles ... we got the time. > > > > > > > > > > > > >You sure seem to speak for every one by suggesting there ideals are so bad ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I made NO such suggestion. I did notice you ignored this though: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing the elite spec got was power creep over core ele and anet has done nothing more then to nerf core ele to make tempest and weaver not op vs other classes. Most tempest and weaver run staff or scepter they dont run there elite spec weapons at all because there no need to and they are nothing more then ele +1. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are you talking about? Sword is a popular weapon for weaver and weaver plays nothing like core ele. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But you can play tempest as a core ele if you never use its overloades you can also play weaver as if it a core ele with unravla (that and a lot of what makes weaver better is to make its swap cd even lower making it closer to a core ele game play. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's true ... but it doesn't change what I said. If you play weaver and tempest the same way you play ele, that's YOUR loss and your _CHOICE_ ... but it's not a fundamental truth that everyone plays tempest and weaver like ele and therefore ele lacks a class mechanic and needs to be fixed. In fact, if you DON'T play them like ele, you see why you are wrong and just how different they actually are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You did and the op made the suggestion i am agreeing with. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK ... You can agree with his suggestion. You keep saying it should be changed because there isn't a reason to play core ele over it's especs ... but lots of people DO play ele, for whatever reason it is they want to do so. Therefore, you're reason to change it is wrong. It's just WRONG. Sounds to me what's happening here is that there is an idea people like and are willing to say anything to be compelling to have it changed, even if those things are _wrong_. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But your making out as if my views and the views of the op cant even be said i am not anet and i do not like the way they are running things so i committed a great crime. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No I'm not. I haven't prevented you from saying anything. You've said EXACTLY what you've wanted to say so far, _even if it's not true_. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't play the victim here ... like things you say shouldn't be challenged if that view or the things supporting it are wrong, ESPECIALLY if those things are going effect how people play the game or what choices they have. There is no cult mindset here ... unless you think being truthful and honest means you are part of a cult. In that case, sign me up ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your playing anet as a victim here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is very much a cult mindset. > > > > > > > > > > > > That makes no sense and has nothing to do with the topic. > > > > > > > > > > > > We have been given choice and if something doesn't fit your criteria, you don't choose it. That's not some unreasonable bit of advice ... that's the INTENTION for how the game works. In fact, that's the intention of how EVERY multi-classed MMO works. > > > > > > > > > > > > If ele is deficient, don't justify a fix for that based on untrue statements that it doesn't have a class mechanic, that especs don't play different than ele or that there aren't reasons to choose playing ele. Those statements are _false_ making those justifications _absurd_. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You went way off-topic when you ask ppl not to play the class over looking at the suggestion. What about there suggestion do you not like lets not talk about anet position on the game but YOUR views. > > > > > > > > I didn't ask anything to anyone. I'm reminding people why we have been given choice and if something doesn't fit your criteria, you don't choose it ... that shouldn't even NEED to be said, but clearly people have forgot their ability to choose freely in this game (or have done so because they have an agenda to push for a change they want). > > > > > > > > What I don't like about the suggestion? Easy, it's being justified by something that ISN'T TRUE. It's continually being justified by additional untruths you keep making. Again, maybe it's a good idea but don't pretend it's fixing some problem that exists only based on things that aren't true. You aren't actually fixing any real problem in that case. at that point, you're just pushing something you want and as I've already said, the game can't cater to things each player wants because everyone doesn't want the same things > > > > > > > > ... and that's why we are given LOTS of choice. So you see, again, as much as you want to dismiss the concept of choice ... it's real and it's intentional. You aren't going to justify a change if the solution already exists through choices we can make... ESPECIALLY if that change is only being justified based on untruthful statements. That's absurd. > > > > > > And you do not think ppl would get "quit the class because you want to update it" vibe from what you said? > > > > Why should they not consider changing class if the class they play doesn't satisfy the way they want to play the game? > > > > Well i made the point a few times now and it all ties these things together. To make the eleit spec classes more "balanced" anet has nerfed core ele over and over with out any real though for the core ele use. So we talked about sword on weaver well the reason why it of more use was because of the staff ele nerfs. This hit the core ele hard as it was the main dps wepon. To make tempest less all in support healing they went after staff healing as well. Because of tempest aura up times they did a general nerf to aura duration which hit core ele hard. > > The same thing happen with the old fury on atument swap in arcain that was nerfed because of the elite spec. Every thing that is wrong with core ele NOW is because of nerfs to the class to balance the elite spec. I even think the on overload effects where hit because of tempest not because of ele core swaping being stronger. OK ... I'm not disputing the effects that Anet's class changes have on ele or why they made them. You seem to have a VERY hard time understanding that a justification to make a change is just as important as the change itself. If the BEST justification you can make are based on things that are _not true_, it doesn't matter how good your idea is. Ironically, you accuse me of deflecting your questions (which I have NEVER done in this thread to you) ... but you still didn't answer MY question to you: _Why should a player not consider changing class if the class they play doesn't satisfy the way they want to play the game?_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But what game type are we talking about here the op is talking about pve mostly fractals. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whatever game mode you want to talk about doesn't change the fact that what you said is NOT applicable to everyone. If you play weaver and tempest the same way you play ele, that's YOUR loss and your _CHOICE_ ... but it's not a fundamental truth that tempest and weaver play like ele and therefore ele lacks a class mechanic and needs to be fixed. You sure do want to cover all the angles ... we got the time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >You sure seem to speak for every one by suggesting there ideals are so bad ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I made NO such suggestion. I did notice you ignored this though: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing the elite spec got was power creep over core ele and anet has done nothing more then to nerf core ele to make tempest and weaver not op vs other classes. Most tempest and weaver run staff or scepter they dont run there elite spec weapons at all because there no need to and they are nothing more then ele +1. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are you talking about? Sword is a popular weapon for weaver and weaver plays nothing like core ele. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But you can play tempest as a core ele if you never use its overloades you can also play weaver as if it a core ele with unravla (that and a lot of what makes weaver better is to make its swap cd even lower making it closer to a core ele game play. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's true ... but it doesn't change what I said. If you play weaver and tempest the same way you play ele, that's YOUR loss and your _CHOICE_ ... but it's not a fundamental truth that everyone plays tempest and weaver like ele and therefore ele lacks a class mechanic and needs to be fixed. In fact, if you DON'T play them like ele, you see why you are wrong and just how different they actually are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You did and the op made the suggestion i am agreeing with. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK ... You can agree with his suggestion. You keep saying it should be changed because there isn't a reason to play core ele over it's especs ... but lots of people DO play ele, for whatever reason it is they want to do so. Therefore, you're reason to change it is wrong. It's just WRONG. Sounds to me what's happening here is that there is an idea people like and are willing to say anything to be compelling to have it changed, even if those things are _wrong_. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But your making out as if my views and the views of the op cant even be said i am not anet and i do not like the way they are running things so i committed a great crime. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No I'm not. I haven't prevented you from saying anything. You've said EXACTLY what you've wanted to say so far, _even if it's not true_. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't play the victim here ... like things you say shouldn't be challenged if that view or the things supporting it are wrong, ESPECIALLY if those things are going effect how people play the game or what choices they have. There is no cult mindset here ... unless you think being truthful and honest means you are part of a cult. In that case, sign me up ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your playing anet as a victim here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is very much a cult mindset. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That makes no sense and has nothing to do with the topic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We have been given choice and if something doesn't fit your criteria, you don't choose it. That's not some unreasonable bit of advice ... that's the INTENTION for how the game works. In fact, that's the intention of how EVERY multi-classed MMO works. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If ele is deficient, don't justify a fix for that based on untrue statements that it doesn't have a class mechanic, that especs don't play different than ele or that there aren't reasons to choose playing ele. Those statements are _false_ making those justifications _absurd_. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You went way off-topic when you ask ppl not to play the class over looking at the suggestion. What about there suggestion do you not like lets not talk about anet position on the game but YOUR views. > > > > > > > > > > I didn't ask anything to anyone. I'm reminding people why we have been given choice and if something doesn't fit your criteria, you don't choose it ... that shouldn't even NEED to be said, but clearly people have forgot their ability to choose freely in this game (or have done so because they have an agenda to push for a change they want). > > > > > > > > > > What I don't like about the suggestion? Easy, it's being justified by something that ISN'T TRUE. It's continually being justified by additional untruths you keep making. Again, maybe it's a good idea but don't pretend it's fixing some problem that exists only based on things that aren't true. You aren't actually fixing any real problem in that case. at that point, you're just pushing something you want and as I've already said, the game can't cater to things each player wants because everyone doesn't want the same things > > > > > > > > > > ... and that's why we are given LOTS of choice. So you see, again, as much as you want to dismiss the concept of choice ... it's real and it's intentional. You aren't going to justify a change if the solution already exists through choices we can make... ESPECIALLY if that change is only being justified based on untruthful statements. That's absurd. > > > > > > > > And you do not think ppl would get "quit the class because you want to update it" vibe from what you said? > > > > > > Why should they not consider changing class if the class they play doesn't satisfy the way they want to play the game? > > > > > > > Well i made the point a few times now and it all ties these things together. To make the eleit spec classes more "balanced" anet has nerfed core ele over and over with out any real though for the core ele use. So we talked about sword on weaver well the reason why it of more use was because of the staff ele nerfs. This hit the core ele hard as it was the main dps wepon. To make tempest less all in support healing they went after staff healing as well. Because of tempest aura up times they did a general nerf to aura duration which hit core ele hard. > > > > The same thing happen with the old fury on atument swap in arcain that was nerfed because of the elite spec. Every thing that is wrong with core ele NOW is because of nerfs to the class to balance the elite spec. I even think the on overload effects where hit because of tempest not because of ele core swaping being stronger. > > OK ... I'm not disputing the effects that Anet's class changes have on ele or why they made them. > > You seem to have a VERY hard time understanding that a justification to make a change is just as important as the change itself. If the BEST justification you can make are based on things that are not true, it doesn't matter how good your idea is. > > Ironically, you accuse me of deflecting your questions ... but you still didn't answer: > > _Why should a player not consider changing class if the class they play doesn't satisfy the way they want to play the game?_ I just explained the justification... Anet never went after the elite spec class in a real way to get them more in line but they went after the core classes over and over. That is bad balancing and the mind set that core classes are not worth running. When was the last time you ran core ele? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But what game type are we talking about here the op is talking about pve mostly fractals. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whatever game mode you want to talk about doesn't change the fact that what you said is NOT applicable to everyone. If you play weaver and tempest the same way you play ele, that's YOUR loss and your _CHOICE_ ... but it's not a fundamental truth that tempest and weaver play like ele and therefore ele lacks a class mechanic and needs to be fixed. You sure do want to cover all the angles ... we got the time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >You sure seem to speak for every one by suggesting there ideals are so bad ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I made NO such suggestion. I did notice you ignored this though: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing the elite spec got was power creep over core ele and anet has done nothing more then to nerf core ele to make tempest and weaver not op vs other classes. Most tempest and weaver run staff or scepter they dont run there elite spec weapons at all because there no need to and they are nothing more then ele +1. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are you talking about? Sword is a popular weapon for weaver and weaver plays nothing like core ele. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But you can play tempest as a core ele if you never use its overloades you can also play weaver as if it a core ele with unravla (that and a lot of what makes weaver better is to make its swap cd even lower making it closer to a core ele game play. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's true ... but it doesn't change what I said. If you play weaver and tempest the same way you play ele, that's YOUR loss and your _CHOICE_ ... but it's not a fundamental truth that everyone plays tempest and weaver like ele and therefore ele lacks a class mechanic and needs to be fixed. In fact, if you DON'T play them like ele, you see why you are wrong and just how different they actually are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You did and the op made the suggestion i am agreeing with. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK ... You can agree with his suggestion. You keep saying it should be changed because there isn't a reason to play core ele over it's especs ... but lots of people DO play ele, for whatever reason it is they want to do so. Therefore, you're reason to change it is wrong. It's just WRONG. Sounds to me what's happening here is that there is an idea people like and are willing to say anything to be compelling to have it changed, even if those things are _wrong_. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But your making out as if my views and the views of the op cant even be said i am not anet and i do not like the way they are running things so i committed a great crime. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No I'm not. I haven't prevented you from saying anything. You've said EXACTLY what you've wanted to say so far, _even if it's not true_. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't play the victim here ... like things you say shouldn't be challenged if that view or the things supporting it are wrong, ESPECIALLY if those things are going effect how people play the game or what choices they have. There is no cult mindset here ... unless you think being truthful and honest means you are part of a cult. In that case, sign me up ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your playing anet as a victim here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is very much a cult mindset. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That makes no sense and has nothing to do with the topic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We have been given choice and if something doesn't fit your criteria, you don't choose it. That's not some unreasonable bit of advice ... that's the INTENTION for how the game works. In fact, that's the intention of how EVERY multi-classed MMO works. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If ele is deficient, don't justify a fix for that based on untrue statements that it doesn't have a class mechanic, that especs don't play different than ele or that there aren't reasons to choose playing ele. Those statements are _false_ making those justifications _absurd_. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You went way off-topic when you ask ppl not to play the class over looking at the suggestion. What about there suggestion do you not like lets not talk about anet position on the game but YOUR views. > > > > > > > > > > > > I didn't ask anything to anyone. I'm reminding people why we have been given choice and if something doesn't fit your criteria, you don't choose it ... that shouldn't even NEED to be said, but clearly people have forgot their ability to choose freely in this game (or have done so because they have an agenda to push for a change they want). > > > > > > > > > > > > What I don't like about the suggestion? Easy, it's being justified by something that ISN'T TRUE. It's continually being justified by additional untruths you keep making. Again, maybe it's a good idea but don't pretend it's fixing some problem that exists only based on things that aren't true. You aren't actually fixing any real problem in that case. at that point, you're just pushing something you want and as I've already said, the game can't cater to things each player wants because everyone doesn't want the same things > > > > > > > > > > > > ... and that's why we are given LOTS of choice. So you see, again, as much as you want to dismiss the concept of choice ... it's real and it's intentional. You aren't going to justify a change if the solution already exists through choices we can make... ESPECIALLY if that change is only being justified based on untruthful statements. That's absurd. > > > > > > > > > > And you do not think ppl would get "quit the class because you want to update it" vibe from what you said? > > > > > > > > Why should they not consider changing class if the class they play doesn't satisfy the way they want to play the game? > > > > > > > > > > Well i made the point a few times now and it all ties these things together. To make the eleit spec classes more "balanced" anet has nerfed core ele over and over with out any real though for the core ele use. So we talked about sword on weaver well the reason why it of more use was because of the staff ele nerfs. This hit the core ele hard as it was the main dps wepon. To make tempest less all in support healing they went after staff healing as well. Because of tempest aura up times they did a general nerf to aura duration which hit core ele hard. > > > > > > The same thing happen with the old fury on atument swap in arcain that was nerfed because of the elite spec. Every thing that is wrong with core ele NOW is because of nerfs to the class to balance the elite spec. I even think the on overload effects where hit because of tempest not because of ele core swaping being stronger. > > > > OK ... I'm not disputing the effects that Anet's class changes have on ele or why they made them. > > > > You seem to have a VERY hard time understanding that a justification to make a change is just as important as the change itself. If the BEST justification you can make are based on things that are not true, it doesn't matter how good your idea is. > > > > Ironically, you accuse me of deflecting your questions ... but you still didn't answer: > > > > _Why should a player not consider changing class if the class they play doesn't satisfy the way they want to play the game?_ > > I just explained the justification... Anet never went after the elite spec class in a real way to get them more in line but they went after the core classes over and over. That is bad balancing and the mind set that core classes are not worth running. When was the last time you ran core ele? People who play ele consider it 'worth running' ... so that justification is based on something that's _not true_. How about I tell you the last time I ran core ele ... if you answer my question: _Why should a player not consider changing class if the class they play doesn't satisfy the way they want to play the game?_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But what game type are we talking about here the op is talking about pve mostly fractals. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whatever game mode you want to talk about doesn't change the fact that what you said is NOT applicable to everyone. If you play weaver and tempest the same way you play ele, that's YOUR loss and your _CHOICE_ ... but it's not a fundamental truth that tempest and weaver play like ele and therefore ele lacks a class mechanic and needs to be fixed. You sure do want to cover all the angles ... we got the time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >You sure seem to speak for every one by suggesting there ideals are so bad ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I made NO such suggestion. I did notice you ignored this though: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing the elite spec got was power creep over core ele and anet has done nothing more then to nerf core ele to make tempest and weaver not op vs other classes. Most tempest and weaver run staff or scepter they dont run there elite spec weapons at all because there no need to and they are nothing more then ele +1. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are you talking about? Sword is a popular weapon for weaver and weaver plays nothing like core ele. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But you can play tempest as a core ele if you never use its overloades you can also play weaver as if it a core ele with unravla (that and a lot of what makes weaver better is to make its swap cd even lower making it closer to a core ele game play. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's true ... but it doesn't change what I said. If you play weaver and tempest the same way you play ele, that's YOUR loss and your _CHOICE_ ... but it's not a fundamental truth that everyone plays tempest and weaver like ele and therefore ele lacks a class mechanic and needs to be fixed. In fact, if you DON'T play them like ele, you see why you are wrong and just how different they actually are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You did and the op made the suggestion i am agreeing with. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK ... You can agree with his suggestion. You keep saying it should be changed because there isn't a reason to play core ele over it's especs ... but lots of people DO play ele, for whatever reason it is they want to do so. Therefore, you're reason to change it is wrong. It's just WRONG. Sounds to me what's happening here is that there is an idea people like and are willing to say anything to be compelling to have it changed, even if those things are _wrong_. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But your making out as if my views and the views of the op cant even be said i am not anet and i do not like the way they are running things so i committed a great crime. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No I'm not. I haven't prevented you from saying anything. You've said EXACTLY what you've wanted to say so far, _even if it's not true_. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't play the victim here ... like things you say shouldn't be challenged if that view or the things supporting it are wrong, ESPECIALLY if those things are going effect how people play the game or what choices they have. There is no cult mindset here ... unless you think being truthful and honest means you are part of a cult. In that case, sign me up ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your playing anet as a victim here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is very much a cult mindset. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That makes no sense and has nothing to do with the topic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We have been given choice and if something doesn't fit your criteria, you don't choose it. That's not some unreasonable bit of advice ... that's the INTENTION for how the game works. In fact, that's the intention of how EVERY multi-classed MMO works. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If ele is deficient, don't justify a fix for that based on untrue statements that it doesn't have a class mechanic, that especs don't play different than ele or that there aren't reasons to choose playing ele. Those statements are _false_ making those justifications _absurd_. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You went way off-topic when you ask ppl not to play the class over looking at the suggestion. What about there suggestion do you not like lets not talk about anet position on the game but YOUR views. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I didn't ask anything to anyone. I'm reminding people why we have been given choice and if something doesn't fit your criteria, you don't choose it ... that shouldn't even NEED to be said, but clearly people have forgot their ability to choose freely in this game (or have done so because they have an agenda to push for a change they want). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I don't like about the suggestion? Easy, it's being justified by something that ISN'T TRUE. It's continually being justified by additional untruths you keep making. Again, maybe it's a good idea but don't pretend it's fixing some problem that exists only based on things that aren't true. You aren't actually fixing any real problem in that case. at that point, you're just pushing something you want and as I've already said, the game can't cater to things each player wants because everyone doesn't want the same things > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... and that's why we are given LOTS of choice. So you see, again, as much as you want to dismiss the concept of choice ... it's real and it's intentional. You aren't going to justify a change if the solution already exists through choices we can make... ESPECIALLY if that change is only being justified based on untruthful statements. That's absurd. > > > > > > > > > > > > And you do not think ppl would get "quit the class because you want to update it" vibe from what you said? > > > > > > > > > > Why should they not consider changing class if the class they play doesn't satisfy the way they want to play the game? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well i made the point a few times now and it all ties these things together. To make the eleit spec classes more "balanced" anet has nerfed core ele over and over with out any real though for the core ele use. So we talked about sword on weaver well the reason why it of more use was because of the staff ele nerfs. This hit the core ele hard as it was the main dps wepon. To make tempest less all in support healing they went after staff healing as well. Because of tempest aura up times they did a general nerf to aura duration which hit core ele hard. > > > > > > > > The same thing happen with the old fury on atument swap in arcain that was nerfed because of the elite spec. Every thing that is wrong with core ele NOW is because of nerfs to the class to balance the elite spec. I even think the on overload effects where hit because of tempest not because of ele core swaping being stronger. > > > > > > OK ... I'm not disputing the effects that Anet's class changes have on ele or why they made them. > > > > > > You seem to have a VERY hard time understanding that a justification to make a change is just as important as the change itself. If the BEST justification you can make are based on things that are not true, it doesn't matter how good your idea is. > > > > > > Ironically, you accuse me of deflecting your questions ... but you still didn't answer: > > > > > > _Why should a player not consider changing class if the class they play doesn't satisfy the way they want to play the game?_ > > > > I just explained the justification... Anet never went after the elite spec class in a real way to get them more in line but they went after the core classes over and over. That is bad balancing and the mind set that core classes are not worth running. When was the last time you ran core ele? > > People who play ele consider it 'worth running' ... so that justification is based on something that's _not true_. > > How about I tell you the last time I ran core ele ... if you answer my question: > > _Why should a player not consider changing class if the class they play doesn't satisfy the way they want to play the game?_ Because they want to play that class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > _Why should a player not consider changing class if the class they play doesn't satisfy the way they want to play the game?_ > > Because they want to play that class. That doesn't make sense ... If someone plays a class, it MUST satisfy some criteria they have to make that choice. There is clearly something wrong with their own criteria if they choose a class that they have convinced themselves they want to play ... but don't like playing. Therefore, the idea they choose a different class isn't so unreasonable after all is it. I mean ... listen to yourself ... people WANT to play a class that DOESN'T satisfy the way they want to play the game. That's some new level right their. No wonder you don't understand what I'm saying it if that's how you think. Oh and BTW, I 'ran' ele yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > _Why should a player not consider changing class if the class they play doesn't satisfy the way they want to play the game?_ > > > > Because they want to play that class. > > That doesn't make sense ... If someone plays a class, it MUST satisfy some criteria they have to make that choice. There is clearly something wrong with their own criteria if they choose a class that they have convinced themselves they want to play ... but don't like playing. Therefore, the idea they choose a different class isn't so unreasonable after all is it. > > I mean ... listen to yourself ... people WANT to play a class that DOESN'T satisfy the way they want to play the game. That's some new level nonsense right their. > > Oh and BTW, I 'ran' ele yesterday. Well not at all you can play a class for years and then anet updates in such a way to make the class no longer viable. This is what happen and its all due to anet putting the elite spec before the core classes. We are talking about 4? years before ele core was hit because of tempest and 6? for weaver. This is all on anet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > _Why should a player not consider changing class if the class they play doesn't satisfy the way they want to play the game?_ > > > > > > Because they want to play that class. > > > > That doesn't make sense ... If someone plays a class, it MUST satisfy some criteria they have to make that choice. There is clearly something wrong with their own criteria if they choose a class that they have convinced themselves they want to play ... but don't like playing. Therefore, the idea they choose a different class isn't so unreasonable after all is it. > > > > I mean ... listen to yourself ... people WANT to play a class that DOESN'T satisfy the way they want to play the game. That's some new level nonsense right their. > > > > Oh and BTW, I 'ran' ele yesterday. > > Well not at all you can play a class for years and then anet updates in such a way to make the class no longer viable. Right ... and the reasonable answer to that is ... if the class isn't satisfactory to you any more, then why you playing it? So basically, if you are saying you want to continue playing class that no longer satisfies how you want to play the game, there isn't a problem here because that's your choice and your criteria of 'class' is more important to you than 'satisfying play' in that choice. That's not a problem Anet needs to fix because Anet can't cater to each player's idea about how the game should work. Again ... if that's a problem, it's with your criteria for choosing a class. You're so unwilling to recognize the validity of class choice, yet it's a fundamental aspect of a multi-classed MMO. We aren't going to go in a circle here. You have criteria ... you make choices based on those criteria. MMO's change and that might mean you also have to make a change to what you enjoy playing as a class if you don't change your criteria. That's not some weird, exceptional scenario. If you expect to never have to re-evaluate your choices as a game evolves, you are just not being a reasonable patron of MMO. I guess that sort of goes inhand with your willingness to use untruthful statements to justify game changes or your claims that especs are P2W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kharmin.7683 Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > I just explained the justification... Anet never went after the elite spec class in a real way to get them more in line but they went after the core classes over and over. That is bad balancing and the mind set that core classes are not worth running. When was the last time you ran core ele? Wait. I thought that your entire argument hinged on the elementalist class having no mechanics. Now you're talking about balance, which is a completely different thing. If you want to argue balance, then that assumes mechanics are already in place and that you believe those mechanics need tuning or adjustment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > _Why should a player not consider changing class if the class they play doesn't satisfy the way they want to play the game?_ > > > > > > > > Because they want to play that class. > > > > > > That doesn't make sense ... If someone plays a class, it MUST satisfy some criteria they have to make that choice. There is clearly something wrong with their own criteria if they choose a class that they have convinced themselves they want to play ... but don't like playing. Therefore, the idea they choose a different class isn't so unreasonable after all is it. > > > > > > I mean ... listen to yourself ... people WANT to play a class that DOESN'T satisfy the way they want to play the game. That's some new level nonsense right their. > > > > > > Oh and BTW, I 'ran' ele yesterday. > > > > Well not at all you can play a class for years and then anet updates in such a way to make the class no longer viable. > > Right ... and the reasonable answer to that is ... if the class isn't satisfactory to you any more, then why you playing it? So basically, if you are saying you want to continue playing class that no longer satisfies how you want to play the game, there isn't a problem here because that's your choice and your criteria of 'class' is more important to you than 'satisfying play' in that choice. That's not a problem Anet needs to fix because Anet can't cater to each player's idea about how the game should work. Again ... if that's a problem, it's with your criteria for choosing a class. > > You're so unwilling to recognize the validity of class choice, yet it's a fundamental aspect of a multi-classed MMO. We aren't going to go in a circle here. You have criteria ... you make choices based on those criteria. MMO's change and that might mean you also have to make a change to what you enjoy playing as a class if you don't change your criteria. That's not some weird, exceptional scenario. If you expect to never have to re-evaluate your choices as a game evolves, you are just not being a reasonable patron of MMO. I guess that sort of goes inhand with your willingness to use untruthful statements to justify game changes or your claims that especs are P2W. > Its not like ppl went away and came back to the class and found it no longer good it happen as they where playing it and are saying they dislike the updates and are still saying it to this day. You cant make your character a different class out side of elite spec. MMORPG that want you to swap classes tend to let you play different classes on the same character. With a game like GW2 where your character has a full story behind it and is more person then most mmorpgs its not much to say that your character is yours and the lock in class was made to lock to your person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > _Why should a player not consider changing class if the class they play doesn't satisfy the way they want to play the game?_ > > > > > > > > > > Because they want to play that class. > > > > > > > > That doesn't make sense ... If someone plays a class, it MUST satisfy some criteria they have to make that choice. There is clearly something wrong with their own criteria if they choose a class that they have convinced themselves they want to play ... but don't like playing. Therefore, the idea they choose a different class isn't so unreasonable after all is it. > > > > > > > > I mean ... listen to yourself ... people WANT to play a class that DOESN'T satisfy the way they want to play the game. That's some new level nonsense right their. > > > > > > > > Oh and BTW, I 'ran' ele yesterday. > > > > > > Well not at all you can play a class for years and then anet updates in such a way to make the class no longer viable. > > > > Right ... and the reasonable answer to that is ... if the class isn't satisfactory to you any more, then why you playing it? So basically, if you are saying you want to continue playing class that no longer satisfies how you want to play the game, there isn't a problem here because that's your choice and your criteria of 'class' is more important to you than 'satisfying play' in that choice. That's not a problem Anet needs to fix because Anet can't cater to each player's idea about how the game should work. Again ... if that's a problem, it's with your criteria for choosing a class. > > > > You're so unwilling to recognize the validity of class choice, yet it's a fundamental aspect of a multi-classed MMO. We aren't going to go in a circle here. You have criteria ... you make choices based on those criteria. MMO's change and that might mean you also have to make a change to what you enjoy playing as a class if you don't change your criteria. That's not some weird, exceptional scenario. If you expect to never have to re-evaluate your choices as a game evolves, you are just not being a reasonable patron of MMO. I guess that sort of goes inhand with your willingness to use untruthful statements to justify game changes or your claims that especs are P2W. > > > > Its not like ppl went away and came back to the class and found it no longer good ... That doesn't matter; nothing in your post changes what I keep telling you is true. You have criteria ... you make choices based on those criteria. MMO's change and you might have to make a change to what you enjoy playing as a class if you don't change your criteria. You've dishonestly tried to dismiss making a change to what or how you play as a viable solution to the problem of playing something you don't like. You aren't going to escape that with continually saying things that are irrelevant or untrue. > You cant make your character a different class out side of elite spec ... your character has a full story behind it That's doesn't prevent playing different classes. That's just one of many criteria you use to choose a class. If you re-evaluate your criteria, then 'class' not a barrier to making a different class choice. Anet can't cater to all the individuals for how and what they want to play. It's why we have those choices. See here is the big problem ... you don't address what I'm saying to you, probably because you know what I'm saying is true. You just continue to say different things, most of them irrelevant or untrue, to try (and fail) showing that different choices are an unreasonable solution to things you don't like. The more you continue you say irrelevant or untrue things to me, the farther you get from reasoning ele should get changed. I'm not against classes getting changed, but certainly not based on untrue or irrelevant reasons like this thread does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > _Why should a player not consider changing class if the class they play doesn't satisfy the way they want to play the game?_ > > > > > > > > > > > > Because they want to play that class. > > > > > > > > > > That doesn't make sense ... If someone plays a class, it MUST satisfy some criteria they have to make that choice. There is clearly something wrong with their own criteria if they choose a class that they have convinced themselves they want to play ... but don't like playing. Therefore, the idea they choose a different class isn't so unreasonable after all is it. > > > > > > > > > > I mean ... listen to yourself ... people WANT to play a class that DOESN'T satisfy the way they want to play the game. That's some new level nonsense right their. > > > > > > > > > > Oh and BTW, I 'ran' ele yesterday. > > > > > > > > Well not at all you can play a class for years and then anet updates in such a way to make the class no longer viable. > > > > > > Right ... and the reasonable answer to that is ... if the class isn't satisfactory to you any more, then why you playing it? So basically, if you are saying you want to continue playing class that no longer satisfies how you want to play the game, there isn't a problem here because that's your choice and your criteria of 'class' is more important to you than 'satisfying play' in that choice. That's not a problem Anet needs to fix because Anet can't cater to each player's idea about how the game should work. Again ... if that's a problem, it's with your criteria for choosing a class. > > > > > > You're so unwilling to recognize the validity of class choice, yet it's a fundamental aspect of a multi-classed MMO. We aren't going to go in a circle here. You have criteria ... you make choices based on those criteria. MMO's change and that might mean you also have to make a change to what you enjoy playing as a class if you don't change your criteria. That's not some weird, exceptional scenario. If you expect to never have to re-evaluate your choices as a game evolves, you are just not being a reasonable patron of MMO. I guess that sort of goes inhand with your willingness to use untruthful statements to justify game changes or your claims that especs are P2W. > > > > > > > Its not like ppl went away and came back to the class and found it no longer good ... > > That doesn't matter; nothing in your post changes what I keep telling you is true. You have criteria ... you make choices based on those criteria. MMO's change and you might have to make a change to what you enjoy playing as a class if you don't change your criteria. You've dishonestly tried to dismiss making a change to what or how you play as a viable solution to the problem of playing something you don't like. You aren't going to escape that with continually saying things that are irrelevant or untrue. > > > You cant make your character a different class out side of elite spec ... your character has a full story behind it > > That's doesn't prevent playing different classes. That's just one of many criteria you use to choose a class. If you re-evaluate your criteria, then 'class' not a barrier to making a different class choice. Anet can't cater to all the individuals for how and what they want to play. It's why we have those choices. > > See here is the big problem ... you don't address what I'm saying to you, probably because you know what I'm saying is true. You just continue to say different things, most of them irrelevant or untrue, to try (and fail) showing that different choices are an unreasonable solution to things you don't like. The more you continue you say irrelevant or untrue things to me, the farther you get from reasoning ele should get changed. > > I'm not against classes getting changed, but certainly not based on untrue or irrelevant reasons like this thread does. I am being blunt about my views ppl play a class for years then have the rug pulled out from under them because of new things anet want to promote. It is good reason to dislike what anet has done and the chose they made. Every player is very much with in there right to point out this error of anet. You realty cant play what ever class you want because the game builds on it self it takes time to unlock and to build up a character and as anet added in more gear and things to build up to the grind has only gotten worst. This game is NOT made for alts and its getting worst for them every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 > I am being blunt about my views ... ... and it's causing you to make irrelevant or untrue statements and conclusions about the game. These things are NOT helping you create good reasoning for changing ele. >ppl play a class for years then have the rug pulled out from under them OK .. but that's how evolving MMO's work ... like since always. The approach you have to deal with that is making choices from the options you have available to you. You need to get over yourself because Anet can't cater to how you want the game work. > @"Jski.6180" said: > You realty cant play what ever class you want because the game builds on it self it takes time to unlock and to build up a character and as anet added in more gear and things to build up to the grind has only gotten worst. This game is NOT made for alts and its getting worst for them every day. > That doesn't make sense because those things do NOT prevent you from playing whatever class you want. The ONLY thing that prevents you from playing whatever class you want are your OWN criteria for choosing a class. If your primary criteria for choosing a class is "_I've already leveled, geared and unlocked everything on this character_" ... that's your CHOICE and it's more important to you than any other criteria you have. Nothing you say is going to diminish the fact that making choices in evolving games, like this one, IS intentional as a method to deal with game change and it's one of the primary reasons Anet gives us all these options to choose from. Like, NOTHING. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > I am being blunt about my views ... > > ... and it's causing you to make irrelevant or untrue statements and conclusions about the game. These things are NOT helping you create good reasoning for changing ele. > > >ppl play a class for years then have the rug pulled out from under them > > OK .. but that's how evolving MMO's work ... like since always. The approach you have to deal with that is making choices from the options you have available to you. You need to get over yourself because Anet can't cater to how you want the game work. > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > You realty cant play what ever class you want because the game builds on it self it takes time to unlock and to build up a character and as anet added in more gear and things to build up to the grind has only gotten worst. This game is NOT made for alts and its getting worst for them every day. > > > That doesn't make sense because those things do NOT prevent you from playing whatever class you want. The ONLY thing that prevents you from playing whatever class you want are your OWN criteria for choosing a class. If your primary criteria for choosing a class is "_I've already leveled, geared and unlocked everything on this character_" ... that's your CHOICE and it's more important to you than any other criteria you have. > > Nothing you say is going to diminish the fact that making choices in evolving games, like this one, IS intentional as a method to deal with game change and it's one of the primary reasons Anet gives us all these options to choose from. Like, NOTHING. You are calling me a lair over and over so i NEED to make a point about it. I have not called you a lair once and i believe you truly believe what your saying. I just think you put so much into the game that you cant make it feel worthless by pointing out a massive flaw in the game. MMO update for sure but you can and you MUST point out when they are evolving in such a way that is wrong to the player base. It dose sadly every thing in this game is progression even if its not gear progression (all though there is some of that in it as well) from WP to quest there are progression in this game for every thing you do. And these take time and often are character locked. Sure you can play a new class after you go though all of the work of building up another alt. Every LS and every expansion makes it harder to do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > I am being blunt about my views ... > > > > ... and it's causing you to make irrelevant or untrue statements and conclusions about the game. These things are NOT helping you create good reasoning for changing ele. > > > > >ppl play a class for years then have the rug pulled out from under them > > > > OK .. but that's how evolving MMO's work ... like since always. The approach you have to deal with that is making choices from the options you have available to you. You need to get over yourself because Anet can't cater to how you want the game work. > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > You realty cant play what ever class you want because the game builds on it self it takes time to unlock and to build up a character and as anet added in more gear and things to build up to the grind has only gotten worst. This game is NOT made for alts and its getting worst for them every day. > > > > > That doesn't make sense because those things do NOT prevent you from playing whatever class you want. The ONLY thing that prevents you from playing whatever class you want are your OWN criteria for choosing a class. If your primary criteria for choosing a class is "_I've already leveled, geared and unlocked everything on this character_" ... that's your CHOICE and it's more important to you than any other criteria you have. > > > > Nothing you say is going to diminish the fact that making choices in evolving games, like this one, IS intentional as a method to deal with game change and it's one of the primary reasons Anet gives us all these options to choose from. Like, NOTHING. > > You are calling me a lair over and over ... That's _not true_; I've NEVER called you that. I'm simply clarifying the discussion when I see you saying untrue or irrelevant statements. > MMO update for sure but you can and you MUST point out when they are evolving in such a way that is wrong to the player base. That's _not true_. It might be wrong _for you_ but you don't know if it's wrong to the player base. Anet can't cater to how you think the game should work just to please you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > I am being blunt about my views ... > > > > > > ... and it's causing you to make irrelevant or untrue statements and conclusions about the game. These things are NOT helping you create good reasoning for changing ele. > > > > > > >ppl play a class for years then have the rug pulled out from under them > > > > > > OK .. but that's how evolving MMO's work ... like since always. The approach you have to deal with that is making choices from the options you have available to you. You need to get over yourself because Anet can't cater to how you want the game work. > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > You realty cant play what ever class you want because the game builds on it self it takes time to unlock and to build up a character and as anet added in more gear and things to build up to the grind has only gotten worst. This game is NOT made for alts and its getting worst for them every day. > > > > > > > That doesn't make sense because those things do NOT prevent you from playing whatever class you want. The ONLY thing that prevents you from playing whatever class you want are your OWN criteria for choosing a class. If your primary criteria for choosing a class is "_I've already leveled, geared and unlocked everything on this character_" ... that's your CHOICE and it's more important to you than any other criteria you have. > > > > > > Nothing you say is going to diminish the fact that making choices in evolving games, like this one, IS intentional as a method to deal with game change and it's one of the primary reasons Anet gives us all these options to choose from. Like, NOTHING. > > > > You are calling me a lair over and over ... > > That's _not true_; I've NEVER called you that. I'm simply clarifying the discussion when I see you saying untrue or irrelevant statements. > > MMO update for sure but you can and you MUST point out when they are evolving in such a way that is wrong to the player base. > > That's _not true. It might be wrong _for you_ but you don't know if it's wrong to the player base. Anet can't cater to how you think the game should work just to please you. What we say often is what we are if you go after what i am saying in such a way you are calling me in such a way. I am part of that player base and i know what i know and i am free to point this out as well as others. Please do not look down on ppl too much for disagree with anet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > I am being blunt about my views ... > > > > > > > > ... and it's causing you to make irrelevant or untrue statements and conclusions about the game. These things are NOT helping you create good reasoning for changing ele. > > > > > > > > >ppl play a class for years then have the rug pulled out from under them > > > > > > > > OK .. but that's how evolving MMO's work ... like since always. The approach you have to deal with that is making choices from the options you have available to you. You need to get over yourself because Anet can't cater to how you want the game work. > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > You realty cant play what ever class you want because the game builds on it self it takes time to unlock and to build up a character and as anet added in more gear and things to build up to the grind has only gotten worst. This game is NOT made for alts and its getting worst for them every day. > > > > > > > > > That doesn't make sense because those things do NOT prevent you from playing whatever class you want. The ONLY thing that prevents you from playing whatever class you want are your OWN criteria for choosing a class. If your primary criteria for choosing a class is "_I've already leveled, geared and unlocked everything on this character_" ... that's your CHOICE and it's more important to you than any other criteria you have. > > > > > > > > Nothing you say is going to diminish the fact that making choices in evolving games, like this one, IS intentional as a method to deal with game change and it's one of the primary reasons Anet gives us all these options to choose from. Like, NOTHING. > > > > > > You are calling me a lair over and over ... > > > > That's _not true_; I've NEVER called you that. I'm simply clarifying the discussion when I see you saying untrue or irrelevant statements. > > > MMO update for sure but you can and you MUST point out when they are evolving in such a way that is wrong to the player base. > > > > That's _not true. It might be wrong _for you_ but you don't know if it's wrong to the player base. Anet can't cater to how you think the game should work just to please you. > > I am part of that player base and i know what i know ... OK ... except being part of that doesn't mean you know if how ele works is wrong to the player base so it's still _not true_ when you say how ele works is wrong to the player base. You can't base your justification to change ele on statements that are _not true_. I'm also a part of the playerbase ... and I don't like your reasoning for changing ele because it's based on _not true_ things. >Please do not look down on ppl too much for disagree with anet. I don't ... but I do look down on people that make untrue and irrelevant statements to disagree with Anet, especially if those people aren't being considerate of how other players enjoy and play the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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