Obtena.7952 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > Core ele needs a massive update and it IS lacking a mechanic. > > > > > > > > > It might need an update BUT there is no mechanic lacking here. Swapping elements is a class mechanic. You might think it's deficient ... but it IS a mechanic. > > > > > > The lack of mechanic is due to tempest and weaver getting the same mechanic ... > > > > Ele doesn't lack a mechanic because tempest and weaver share the same one. That's absurd. Almost every class and their especs all work like this in fact. The mechanic is swapping elements ... and core ele does that, so YES it has a mechanic. Seems to me you don't understand what 'lacking' actually means. > > > > You can argue what you think it should be all you like ... but that's not relevant to the game. The game isn't designed around catering to how you think it should work. > > Its not just they share one they have the swap and an mechanic effect. If core ele got more from each atument then it would be a true mechanic of a class till then its on the level of a class having an wepon swap or not. That doesn't mean it lacks a mechanic or that the mechanic isn't 'true' ... the fact it shares the same mechanic with the especs is PROOF it DOESN'T lack a mechanic. If the mechanic is 'true' enough for the especs, it's also true enough for the core. You simply don't understand what the word lacking means. If the mechanic is on the level of a weapon swap or whatever you convinced yourself ... it STILL is a 'true' and real class mechanic because it still impacts how you play and it's still related to the class because of the elements; hence "class mechanic". That's simply how anet decided to implement it. If you don't like that ... you have choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > Core ele needs a massive update and it IS lacking a mechanic. > > > > > > > > > > > It might need an update BUT there is no mechanic lacking here. Swapping elements is a class mechanic. You might think it's deficient ... but it IS a mechanic. > > > > > > > > The lack of mechanic is due to tempest and weaver getting the same mechanic ... > > > > > > Ele doesn't lack a mechanic because tempest and weaver share the same one. That's absurd. Almost every class and their especs all work like this in fact. The mechanic is swapping elements ... and core ele does that, so YES it has a mechanic. Seems to me you don't understand what 'lacking' actually means. > > > > > > You can argue what you think it should be all you like ... but that's not relevant to the game. The game isn't designed around catering to how you think it should work. > > > > Its not just they share one they have the swap and an mechanic effect. If core ele got more from each atument then it would be a true mechanic of a class till then its on the level of a class having an wepon swap or not. > > That doesn't mean it lacks a mechanic or that the mechanic isn't 'true' ... the fact it shares the same mechanic with the especs is PROOF it DOESN'T lack a mechanic. If the mechanic is 'true' enough for the especs, it's also true enough for the core. You simply don't understand what the word lacking means. > > If the mechanic is on the level of a weapon swap or whatever you convinced yourself ... it STILL is a 'true' and real class mechanic because it still impacts how you play and it's still related to the class because of the elements; hence "class mechanic". That's simply how anet decided to implement it. If you don't like that ... you have choices. > > Any small thing will do i guess then? Ele dose have animations that look like magic fire water lighting and earth maybe that also a mechanic its not important if they have the effects of these 4 things just that they look like it. Like how rev gets a dodge roll animation effect it must be a mechanic of the class as well. At some point you got to realize its not enofe to have 2 more "swaps" the other classes there needs to be something there a real reason to swap and right now there not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > At some point you got to realize its not enofe to have 2 more "swaps" the other classes there needs to be something there a real reason to swap and right now there not. Maybe ... but that's NOT a lacking mechanic problem. This thread is NOT a complaint about balance. Whether you think it's enough or not or that there isn't a real reason to swap ... is irrelevant. That's just dependent on how YOU view and play the class. Anet can't cater the game around how you think the game should work. If you don't like how there isn't a reason for you to swap elements in Core ele ... don't play core ele if how the class mechanic works is part of your class choice criteria. That's not that bad answer you think it is ... that's THE answer for anyone making a class choice based on whatever criteria they are using. Swapping elements IS a real class mechanic, just like how many other classes have a swapping concept in their mechanics as well. That's not debatable. If you have a problem with ele balance ... that's NOT this thread and it's not because of the class mechanic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > At some point you got to realize its not enofe to have 2 more "swaps" the other classes there needs to be something there a real reason to swap and right now there not. > > Maybe ... but that's NOT a lacking mechanic problem. This thread is NOT a complaint about balance. Whether you think it's enough or not or that there isn't a real reason to swap ... is irrelevant. That's just dependent on how YOU view and play the class. Anet can't cater the game around how you think the game should work. If you don't like how there isn't a reason for you to swap elements in Core ele ... don't play core ele if how the class mechanic works is part of your class choice criteria. That's not that bad answer you think it is ... that's THE answer for anyone making a class choice based on whatever criteria they are using. > > Swapping elements IS a real class mechanic, just like how many other classes have a swapping concept in their mechanics as well. That not a question of balance its a question of making a mechanic worth something a fire ball being red like fire dose not mean its fire it should burn to make the mechanic of swapping a real effect. Or your swapping is just an animation tick and i would not call that a real mechanic. I think legendary do it better any way they are less likely to be culed in a big fight oddly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > At some point you got to realize its not enofe to have 2 more "swaps" the other classes there needs to be something there a real reason to swap and right now there not. > > > > Maybe ... but that's NOT a lacking mechanic problem. This thread is NOT a complaint about balance. Whether you think it's enough or not or that there isn't a real reason to swap ... is irrelevant. That's just dependent on how YOU view and play the class. Anet can't cater the game around how you think the game should work. If you don't like how there isn't a reason for you to swap elements in Core ele ... don't play core ele if how the class mechanic works is part of your class choice criteria. That's not that bad answer you think it is ... that's THE answer for anyone making a class choice based on whatever criteria they are using. > > > > Swapping elements IS a real class mechanic, just like how many other classes have a swapping concept in their mechanics as well. > > That not a question of balance its a question of making a mechanic worth something ... Again, that's a matter of personal preference and opinion about how YOU play the class ... and as long as Anet can't change the game to cater to how everyone thinks the game should work, it's not going to change because you don't think it's worth using. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > At some point you got to realize its not enofe to have 2 more "swaps" the other classes there needs to be something there a real reason to swap and right now there not. > > > > > > Maybe ... but that's NOT a lacking mechanic problem. This thread is NOT a complaint about balance. Whether you think it's enough or not or that there isn't a real reason to swap ... is irrelevant. That's just dependent on how YOU view and play the class. Anet can't cater the game around how you think the game should work. If you don't like how there isn't a reason for you to swap elements in Core ele ... don't play core ele if how the class mechanic works is part of your class choice criteria. That's not that bad answer you think it is ... that's THE answer for anyone making a class choice based on whatever criteria they are using. > > > > > > Swapping elements IS a real class mechanic, just like how many other classes have a swapping concept in their mechanics as well. > > > > That not a question of balance its a question of making a mechanic worth something ... > > Again, that's a matter of personal preference and opinion about how YOU play the class ... and as long as Anet can't change the game to cater to how everyone thinks the game should work, it's not going to change because you don't think it's worth using. > > Fire should burn how is that a personal preference!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > At some point you got to realize its not enofe to have 2 more "swaps" the other classes there needs to be something there a real reason to swap and right now there not. > > > > > > > > Maybe ... but that's NOT a lacking mechanic problem. This thread is NOT a complaint about balance. Whether you think it's enough or not or that there isn't a real reason to swap ... is irrelevant. That's just dependent on how YOU view and play the class. Anet can't cater the game around how you think the game should work. If you don't like how there isn't a reason for you to swap elements in Core ele ... don't play core ele if how the class mechanic works is part of your class choice criteria. That's not that bad answer you think it is ... that's THE answer for anyone making a class choice based on whatever criteria they are using. > > > > > > > > Swapping elements IS a real class mechanic, just like how many other classes have a swapping concept in their mechanics as well. > > > > > > That not a question of balance its a question of making a mechanic worth something ... > > > > Again, that's a matter of personal preference and opinion about how YOU play the class ... and as long as Anet can't change the game to cater to how everyone thinks the game should work, it's not going to change because you don't think it's worth using. > > > > > > Fire should burn how is that a personal preference!? I don't know what you are asking me. Fire should burn? Sounds reasonable to me. How it's a personal preference? I would say it's not. Is this a trick question or ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > At some point you got to realize its not enofe to have 2 more "swaps" the other classes there needs to be something there a real reason to swap and right now there not. > > > > > > > > > > Maybe ... but that's NOT a lacking mechanic problem. This thread is NOT a complaint about balance. Whether you think it's enough or not or that there isn't a real reason to swap ... is irrelevant. That's just dependent on how YOU view and play the class. Anet can't cater the game around how you think the game should work. If you don't like how there isn't a reason for you to swap elements in Core ele ... don't play core ele if how the class mechanic works is part of your class choice criteria. That's not that bad answer you think it is ... that's THE answer for anyone making a class choice based on whatever criteria they are using. > > > > > > > > > > Swapping elements IS a real class mechanic, just like how many other classes have a swapping concept in their mechanics as well. > > > > > > > > That not a question of balance its a question of making a mechanic worth something ... > > > > > > Again, that's a matter of personal preference and opinion about how YOU play the class ... and as long as Anet can't change the game to cater to how everyone thinks the game should work, it's not going to change because you don't think it's worth using. > > > > > > > > > > Fire should burn how is that a personal preference!? > > I don't know what you are asking me. Fire should burn? Answer: Sure. Is this a trick question or? Ok you DO agree. I think fire skill should have burning tide to them air skill should have a "shock" or "blowing" effect to them water skill should be a "wet" and "chilling" effect and earth needs a "blungen" and "dusty" effect to them. All skills not just the 15 sec cd big hit skills but all of the 1 skills. And the ele core should get the most out of these effects then say tempest and weaver. Kind of a you are the trait lines you chose to use as a core ele. Kind of like the old ele from gw1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrownyClown.8402 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 Before HoT the devs stated that ele was supposed to be the jack of all trades. Still true to an extent. Can do a bit of everything. Core ele has recieved too many indirect nerfs, mostly in sustain and protection uptime because of its elite specs. They should be nerfing the tempest and weaver traits directly and giving core ele some of its old functionality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > At some point you got to realize its not enofe to have 2 more "swaps" the other classes there needs to be something there a real reason to swap and right now there not. > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe ... but that's NOT a lacking mechanic problem. This thread is NOT a complaint about balance. Whether you think it's enough or not or that there isn't a real reason to swap ... is irrelevant. That's just dependent on how YOU view and play the class. Anet can't cater the game around how you think the game should work. If you don't like how there isn't a reason for you to swap elements in Core ele ... don't play core ele if how the class mechanic works is part of your class choice criteria. That's not that bad answer you think it is ... that's THE answer for anyone making a class choice based on whatever criteria they are using. > > > > > > > > > > > > Swapping elements IS a real class mechanic, just like how many other classes have a swapping concept in their mechanics as well. > > > > > > > > > > That not a question of balance its a question of making a mechanic worth something ... > > > > > > > > Again, that's a matter of personal preference and opinion about how YOU play the class ... and as long as Anet can't change the game to cater to how everyone thinks the game should work, it's not going to change because you don't think it's worth using. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fire should burn how is that a personal preference!? > > > > I don't know what you are asking me. Fire should burn? Answer: Sure. Is this a trick question or? > > Ok you DO agree. > I think fire skill should have burning tide to them air skill should have a "shock" or "blowing" effect to them water skill should be a "wet" and "chilling" effect and earth needs a "blungen" and "dusty" effect to them. All skills not just the 15 sec cd big hit skills but all of the 1 skills. And the ele core should get the most out of these effects then say tempest and weaver. Kind of a you are the trait lines you chose to use as a core ele. Kind of like the old ele from gw1. I'm going to be clear here because I don't appreciate the ruse that I'm somehow agreeing with your point of view based on some nonsensical questions that are unrelated to the topic. None of this has anything to do with what we are talking about and whether I agree with this or not is irrelevant to the point in question. Anet can't cater to how you or anyone else thinks the game should work. Swapping elements IS the class mechanic for ele. Based on those things, ele DOES have a class mechanic and it doesn't need to change because it doesn't work the way you think it should. These are not debatable statements. They are TRUE. If you have a problem with how ele performs, that's fine, but that's NOT what we are talking about here. The lack of a profession mechanic (which isn't a problem on ele in the _first_ place) is not necessarily related to how that class performs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > At some point you got to realize its not enofe to have 2 more "swaps" the other classes there needs to be something there a real reason to swap and right now there not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe ... but that's NOT a lacking mechanic problem. This thread is NOT a complaint about balance. Whether you think it's enough or not or that there isn't a real reason to swap ... is irrelevant. That's just dependent on how YOU view and play the class. Anet can't cater the game around how you think the game should work. If you don't like how there isn't a reason for you to swap elements in Core ele ... don't play core ele if how the class mechanic works is part of your class choice criteria. That's not that bad answer you think it is ... that's THE answer for anyone making a class choice based on whatever criteria they are using. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swapping elements IS a real class mechanic, just like how many other classes have a swapping concept in their mechanics as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > That not a question of balance its a question of making a mechanic worth something ... > > > > > > > > > > Again, that's a matter of personal preference and opinion about how YOU play the class ... and as long as Anet can't change the game to cater to how everyone thinks the game should work, it's not going to change because you don't think it's worth using. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fire should burn how is that a personal preference!? > > > > > > I don't know what you are asking me. Fire should burn? Answer: Sure. Is this a trick question or? > > > > Ok you DO agree. > > I think fire skill should have burning tide to them air skill should have a "shock" or "blowing" effect to them water skill should be a "wet" and "chilling" effect and earth needs a "blungen" and "dusty" effect to them. All skills not just the 15 sec cd big hit skills but all of the 1 skills. And the ele core should get the most out of these effects then say tempest and weaver. Kind of a you are the trait lines you chose to use as a core ele. Kind of like the old ele from gw1. > > I'm going to be clear here because I don't appreciate the ruse that I'm somehow agreeing with your point of view based on some nonsensical questions that are unrelated to the topic. None of this has anything to do with what we are talking about and whether I agree with this or not is irrelevant to the point in question. > > Anet can't cater to how you or anyone else thinks the game should work. Swapping elements IS the class mechanic for ele. Based on those things, ele DOES have a class mechanic and it doesn't need to change because it doesn't work the way you think it should. These are not debatable statements. They are TRUE. > > If you have a problem with how ele performs, that's fine, but that's NOT what we are talking about here. The lack of a profession mechanic (which isn't a problem on ele in the _first_ place) is not necessarily related to how that class performs. But every effect is balancing but we are talking about ele core vs tempest vs weaver. You may want to reread the op. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > At some point you got to realize its not enofe to have 2 more "swaps" the other classes there needs to be something there a real reason to swap and right now there not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe ... but that's NOT a lacking mechanic problem. This thread is NOT a complaint about balance. Whether you think it's enough or not or that there isn't a real reason to swap ... is irrelevant. That's just dependent on how YOU view and play the class. Anet can't cater the game around how you think the game should work. If you don't like how there isn't a reason for you to swap elements in Core ele ... don't play core ele if how the class mechanic works is part of your class choice criteria. That's not that bad answer you think it is ... that's THE answer for anyone making a class choice based on whatever criteria they are using. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swapping elements IS a real class mechanic, just like how many other classes have a swapping concept in their mechanics as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That not a question of balance its a question of making a mechanic worth something ... > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, that's a matter of personal preference and opinion about how YOU play the class ... and as long as Anet can't change the game to cater to how everyone thinks the game should work, it's not going to change because you don't think it's worth using. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fire should burn how is that a personal preference!? > > > > > > > > I don't know what you are asking me. Fire should burn? Answer: Sure. Is this a trick question or? > > > > > > Ok you DO agree. > > > I think fire skill should have burning tide to them air skill should have a "shock" or "blowing" effect to them water skill should be a "wet" and "chilling" effect and earth needs a "blungen" and "dusty" effect to them. All skills not just the 15 sec cd big hit skills but all of the 1 skills. And the ele core should get the most out of these effects then say tempest and weaver. Kind of a you are the trait lines you chose to use as a core ele. Kind of like the old ele from gw1. > > > > I'm going to be clear here because I don't appreciate the ruse that I'm somehow agreeing with your point of view based on some nonsensical questions that are unrelated to the topic. None of this has anything to do with what we are talking about and whether I agree with this or not is irrelevant to the point in question. > > > > Anet can't cater to how you or anyone else thinks the game should work. Swapping elements IS the class mechanic for ele. Based on those things, ele DOES have a class mechanic and it doesn't need to change because it doesn't work the way you think it should. These are not debatable statements. They are TRUE. > > > > If you have a problem with how ele performs, that's fine, but that's NOT what we are talking about here. The lack of a profession mechanic (which isn't a problem on ele in the _first_ place) is not necessarily related to how that class performs. > > But every effect is balancing but we are talking about ele core vs tempest vs weaver. You may want to reread the op. I'm aware of what the OP said ... and it doesn't change anything I've said because I'm not someone that replies in threads without reading what they are about. Anet can't cater to how you or anyone else thinks the game should work. Swapping elements IS the class mechanic for ele. Based on those things, ele DOES have a class mechanic and it doesn't need to change because it doesn't work the way you think it should. Therefore, the answer here is to exercise class choices you have available to you based on whatever criteria you want to use to make that choice. If you want to talk about how ele performs vs. it's especs, that _can't_ be a '_ele doesn't have a true class mechanic_' problem because that statement is FALSE. Do not try to pretend that lack of balance on ele is because it lacks a class mechanic ... because it DOESN'T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > At some point you got to realize its not enofe to have 2 more "swaps" the other classes there needs to be something there a real reason to swap and right now there not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe ... but that's NOT a lacking mechanic problem. This thread is NOT a complaint about balance. Whether you think it's enough or not or that there isn't a real reason to swap ... is irrelevant. That's just dependent on how YOU view and play the class. Anet can't cater the game around how you think the game should work. If you don't like how there isn't a reason for you to swap elements in Core ele ... don't play core ele if how the class mechanic works is part of your class choice criteria. That's not that bad answer you think it is ... that's THE answer for anyone making a class choice based on whatever criteria they are using. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swapping elements IS a real class mechanic, just like how many other classes have a swapping concept in their mechanics as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That not a question of balance its a question of making a mechanic worth something ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, that's a matter of personal preference and opinion about how YOU play the class ... and as long as Anet can't change the game to cater to how everyone thinks the game should work, it's not going to change because you don't think it's worth using. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fire should burn how is that a personal preference!? > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you are asking me. Fire should burn? Answer: Sure. Is this a trick question or? > > > > > > > > Ok you DO agree. > > > > I think fire skill should have burning tide to them air skill should have a "shock" or "blowing" effect to them water skill should be a "wet" and "chilling" effect and earth needs a "blungen" and "dusty" effect to them. All skills not just the 15 sec cd big hit skills but all of the 1 skills. And the ele core should get the most out of these effects then say tempest and weaver. Kind of a you are the trait lines you chose to use as a core ele. Kind of like the old ele from gw1. > > > > > > I'm going to be clear here because I don't appreciate the ruse that I'm somehow agreeing with your point of view based on some nonsensical questions that are unrelated to the topic. None of this has anything to do with what we are talking about and whether I agree with this or not is irrelevant to the point in question. > > > > > > Anet can't cater to how you or anyone else thinks the game should work. Swapping elements IS the class mechanic for ele. Based on those things, ele DOES have a class mechanic and it doesn't need to change because it doesn't work the way you think it should. These are not debatable statements. They are TRUE. > > > > > > If you have a problem with how ele performs, that's fine, but that's NOT what we are talking about here. The lack of a profession mechanic (which isn't a problem on ele in the _first_ place) is not necessarily related to how that class performs. > > > > But every effect is balancing but we are talking about ele core vs tempest vs weaver. You may want to reread the op. > > I'm aware of what the OP said ... and it doesn't change anything I've said because I'm not someone that replies in threads without reading what they are about. > > Anet can't cater to how you or anyone else thinks the game should work. Swapping elements IS the class mechanic for ele. Based on those things, ele DOES have a class mechanic and it doesn't need to change because it doesn't work the way you think it should. Therefore, the answer here is to exercise class choices you have available to you based on whatever criteria you want to use to make that choice. > > If you want to talk about how ele performs vs. it's especs, that _can't_ be a '_ele doesn't have a true class mechanic_' problem because that statement is FALSE. Do not try to pretend that lack of balance on ele is because it lacks a class mechanic ... because it DOESN'T. But.... tempest and weaver have the same mechanic + there own. Your comply missing the point of all of this maybe even of all of the forms. You MUST communicate what you want and think is better for the game. Just going arone saying anet cant do what you say because "you" want them to is a non starter for any type of real argument. I do not know what your point of view is other then you want to suppress other from expression there own points of views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > At some point you got to realize its not enofe to have 2 more "swaps" the other classes there needs to be something there a real reason to swap and right now there not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe ... but that's NOT a lacking mechanic problem. This thread is NOT a complaint about balance. Whether you think it's enough or not or that there isn't a real reason to swap ... is irrelevant. That's just dependent on how YOU view and play the class. Anet can't cater the game around how you think the game should work. If you don't like how there isn't a reason for you to swap elements in Core ele ... don't play core ele if how the class mechanic works is part of your class choice criteria. That's not that bad answer you think it is ... that's THE answer for anyone making a class choice based on whatever criteria they are using. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swapping elements IS a real class mechanic, just like how many other classes have a swapping concept in their mechanics as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That not a question of balance its a question of making a mechanic worth something ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, that's a matter of personal preference and opinion about how YOU play the class ... and as long as Anet can't change the game to cater to how everyone thinks the game should work, it's not going to change because you don't think it's worth using. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fire should burn how is that a personal preference!? > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you are asking me. Fire should burn? Answer: Sure. Is this a trick question or? > > > > > > > > > > Ok you DO agree. > > > > > I think fire skill should have burning tide to them air skill should have a "shock" or "blowing" effect to them water skill should be a "wet" and "chilling" effect and earth needs a "blungen" and "dusty" effect to them. All skills not just the 15 sec cd big hit skills but all of the 1 skills. And the ele core should get the most out of these effects then say tempest and weaver. Kind of a you are the trait lines you chose to use as a core ele. Kind of like the old ele from gw1. > > > > > > > > I'm going to be clear here because I don't appreciate the ruse that I'm somehow agreeing with your point of view based on some nonsensical questions that are unrelated to the topic. None of this has anything to do with what we are talking about and whether I agree with this or not is irrelevant to the point in question. > > > > > > > > Anet can't cater to how you or anyone else thinks the game should work. Swapping elements IS the class mechanic for ele. Based on those things, ele DOES have a class mechanic and it doesn't need to change because it doesn't work the way you think it should. These are not debatable statements. They are TRUE. > > > > > > > > If you have a problem with how ele performs, that's fine, but that's NOT what we are talking about here. The lack of a profession mechanic (which isn't a problem on ele in the _first_ place) is not necessarily related to how that class performs. > > > > > > But every effect is balancing but we are talking about ele core vs tempest vs weaver. You may want to reread the op. > > > > I'm aware of what the OP said ... and it doesn't change anything I've said because I'm not someone that replies in threads without reading what they are about. > > > > Anet can't cater to how you or anyone else thinks the game should work. Swapping elements IS the class mechanic for ele. Based on those things, ele DOES have a class mechanic and it doesn't need to change because it doesn't work the way you think it should. Therefore, the answer here is to exercise class choices you have available to you based on whatever criteria you want to use to make that choice. > > > > If you want to talk about how ele performs vs. it's especs, that _can't_ be a '_ele doesn't have a true class mechanic_' problem because that statement is FALSE. Do not try to pretend that lack of balance on ele is because it lacks a class mechanic ... because it DOESN'T. > > But.... tempest and weaver have the same mechanic + there own. OK ... that doesn't mean Ele DOESN'T have a class mechanic. You can't talk about changing a class based on something that is not true. That's nonsense. > I do not know what your point of view is ... My point of view should be pretty clear at this point so if you haven't figured it out, you just aren't paying attention ... but don't worry. What you should be able to figure out is that I'm going to continue to help you understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > At some point you got to realize its not enofe to have 2 more "swaps" the other classes there needs to be something there a real reason to swap and right now there not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe ... but that's NOT a lacking mechanic problem. This thread is NOT a complaint about balance. Whether you think it's enough or not or that there isn't a real reason to swap ... is irrelevant. That's just dependent on how YOU view and play the class. Anet can't cater the game around how you think the game should work. If you don't like how there isn't a reason for you to swap elements in Core ele ... don't play core ele if how the class mechanic works is part of your class choice criteria. That's not that bad answer you think it is ... that's THE answer for anyone making a class choice based on whatever criteria they are using. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swapping elements IS a real class mechanic, just like how many other classes have a swapping concept in their mechanics as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That not a question of balance its a question of making a mechanic worth something ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, that's a matter of personal preference and opinion about how YOU play the class ... and as long as Anet can't change the game to cater to how everyone thinks the game should work, it's not going to change because you don't think it's worth using. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fire should burn how is that a personal preference!? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you are asking me. Fire should burn? Answer: Sure. Is this a trick question or? > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok you DO agree. > > > > > > I think fire skill should have burning tide to them air skill should have a "shock" or "blowing" effect to them water skill should be a "wet" and "chilling" effect and earth needs a "blungen" and "dusty" effect to them. All skills not just the 15 sec cd big hit skills but all of the 1 skills. And the ele core should get the most out of these effects then say tempest and weaver. Kind of a you are the trait lines you chose to use as a core ele. Kind of like the old ele from gw1. > > > > > > > > > > I'm going to be clear here because I don't appreciate the ruse that I'm somehow agreeing with your point of view based on some nonsensical questions that are unrelated to the topic. None of this has anything to do with what we are talking about and whether I agree with this or not is irrelevant to the point in question. > > > > > > > > > > Anet can't cater to how you or anyone else thinks the game should work. Swapping elements IS the class mechanic for ele. Based on those things, ele DOES have a class mechanic and it doesn't need to change because it doesn't work the way you think it should. These are not debatable statements. They are TRUE. > > > > > > > > > > If you have a problem with how ele performs, that's fine, but that's NOT what we are talking about here. The lack of a profession mechanic (which isn't a problem on ele in the _first_ place) is not necessarily related to how that class performs. > > > > > > > > But every effect is balancing but we are talking about ele core vs tempest vs weaver. You may want to reread the op. > > > > > > I'm aware of what the OP said ... and it doesn't change anything I've said because I'm not someone that replies in threads without reading what they are about. > > > > > > Anet can't cater to how you or anyone else thinks the game should work. Swapping elements IS the class mechanic for ele. Based on those things, ele DOES have a class mechanic and it doesn't need to change because it doesn't work the way you think it should. Therefore, the answer here is to exercise class choices you have available to you based on whatever criteria you want to use to make that choice. > > > > > > If you want to talk about how ele performs vs. it's especs, that _can't_ be a '_ele doesn't have a true class mechanic_' problem because that statement is FALSE. Do not try to pretend that lack of balance on ele is because it lacks a class mechanic ... because it DOESN'T. > > > > But.... tempest and weaver have the same mechanic + there own. > > OK ... that doesn't mean Ele DOESN'T have a class mechanic. My point of view should be pretty clear at this point so if you haven't figured it out, you just aren't paying attention. You can't talk about changing a class based on a false claim. That's nonsense. > It means ele core has no reason for existing if other version of it gets the same effect but only to get an added one. This is what the op suggested and they bring up a good fix for the core ele. The only thing you did was told them to play another class if they did not like it. Why are you so bent on not allowing ppl to have points of views? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > At some point you got to realize its not enofe to have 2 more "swaps" the other classes there needs to be something there a real reason to swap and right now there not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe ... but that's NOT a lacking mechanic problem. This thread is NOT a complaint about balance. Whether you think it's enough or not or that there isn't a real reason to swap ... is irrelevant. That's just dependent on how YOU view and play the class. Anet can't cater the game around how you think the game should work. If you don't like how there isn't a reason for you to swap elements in Core ele ... don't play core ele if how the class mechanic works is part of your class choice criteria. That's not that bad answer you think it is ... that's THE answer for anyone making a class choice based on whatever criteria they are using. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swapping elements IS a real class mechanic, just like how many other classes have a swapping concept in their mechanics as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That not a question of balance its a question of making a mechanic worth something ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, that's a matter of personal preference and opinion about how YOU play the class ... and as long as Anet can't change the game to cater to how everyone thinks the game should work, it's not going to change because you don't think it's worth using. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fire should burn how is that a personal preference!? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you are asking me. Fire should burn? Answer: Sure. Is this a trick question or? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok you DO agree. > > > > > > > I think fire skill should have burning tide to them air skill should have a "shock" or "blowing" effect to them water skill should be a "wet" and "chilling" effect and earth needs a "blungen" and "dusty" effect to them. All skills not just the 15 sec cd big hit skills but all of the 1 skills. And the ele core should get the most out of these effects then say tempest and weaver. Kind of a you are the trait lines you chose to use as a core ele. Kind of like the old ele from gw1. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm going to be clear here because I don't appreciate the ruse that I'm somehow agreeing with your point of view based on some nonsensical questions that are unrelated to the topic. None of this has anything to do with what we are talking about and whether I agree with this or not is irrelevant to the point in question. > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet can't cater to how you or anyone else thinks the game should work. Swapping elements IS the class mechanic for ele. Based on those things, ele DOES have a class mechanic and it doesn't need to change because it doesn't work the way you think it should. These are not debatable statements. They are TRUE. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you have a problem with how ele performs, that's fine, but that's NOT what we are talking about here. The lack of a profession mechanic (which isn't a problem on ele in the _first_ place) is not necessarily related to how that class performs. > > > > > > > > > > But every effect is balancing but we are talking about ele core vs tempest vs weaver. You may want to reread the op. > > > > > > > > I'm aware of what the OP said ... and it doesn't change anything I've said because I'm not someone that replies in threads without reading what they are about. > > > > > > > > Anet can't cater to how you or anyone else thinks the game should work. Swapping elements IS the class mechanic for ele. Based on those things, ele DOES have a class mechanic and it doesn't need to change because it doesn't work the way you think it should. Therefore, the answer here is to exercise class choices you have available to you based on whatever criteria you want to use to make that choice. > > > > > > > > If you want to talk about how ele performs vs. it's especs, that _can't_ be a '_ele doesn't have a true class mechanic_' problem because that statement is FALSE. Do not try to pretend that lack of balance on ele is because it lacks a class mechanic ... because it DOESN'T. > > > > > > But.... tempest and weaver have the same mechanic + there own. > > > > OK ... that doesn't mean Ele DOESN'T have a class mechanic. My point of view should be pretty clear at this point so if you haven't figured it out, you just aren't paying attention. You can't talk about changing a class based on a false claim. That's nonsense. > > > > It means ele core has no reason for existing if other version of it gets the same effect but only to get an added one. Except that's not true. Core ele plays different than it's especs ... and that's MORE than enough reason for it to exist. In fact, Anet says that's the primary reason for the existence of the class and it's especs. They are just variations on a theme. > Why are you so bent on not allowing ppl to have points of views? Have all the POV's you want, but DON'T tell me that choice isn't the answer to the issue here. It always has been and will be until game designers can cater to individual players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At some point you got to realize its not enofe to have 2 more "swaps" the other classes there needs to be something there a real reason to swap and right now there not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe ... but that's NOT a lacking mechanic problem. This thread is NOT a complaint about balance. Whether you think it's enough or not or that there isn't a real reason to swap ... is irrelevant. That's just dependent on how YOU view and play the class. Anet can't cater the game around how you think the game should work. If you don't like how there isn't a reason for you to swap elements in Core ele ... don't play core ele if how the class mechanic works is part of your class choice criteria. That's not that bad answer you think it is ... that's THE answer for anyone making a class choice based on whatever criteria they are using. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swapping elements IS a real class mechanic, just like how many other classes have a swapping concept in their mechanics as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That not a question of balance its a question of making a mechanic worth something ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, that's a matter of personal preference and opinion about how YOU play the class ... and as long as Anet can't change the game to cater to how everyone thinks the game should work, it's not going to change because you don't think it's worth using. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fire should burn how is that a personal preference!? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you are asking me. Fire should burn? Answer: Sure. Is this a trick question or? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok you DO agree. > > > > > > > > I think fire skill should have burning tide to them air skill should have a "shock" or "blowing" effect to them water skill should be a "wet" and "chilling" effect and earth needs a "blungen" and "dusty" effect to them. All skills not just the 15 sec cd big hit skills but all of the 1 skills. And the ele core should get the most out of these effects then say tempest and weaver. Kind of a you are the trait lines you chose to use as a core ele. Kind of like the old ele from gw1. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm going to be clear here because I don't appreciate the ruse that I'm somehow agreeing with your point of view based on some nonsensical questions that are unrelated to the topic. None of this has anything to do with what we are talking about and whether I agree with this or not is irrelevant to the point in question. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet can't cater to how you or anyone else thinks the game should work. Swapping elements IS the class mechanic for ele. Based on those things, ele DOES have a class mechanic and it doesn't need to change because it doesn't work the way you think it should. These are not debatable statements. They are TRUE. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you have a problem with how ele performs, that's fine, but that's NOT what we are talking about here. The lack of a profession mechanic (which isn't a problem on ele in the _first_ place) is not necessarily related to how that class performs. > > > > > > > > > > > > But every effect is balancing but we are talking about ele core vs tempest vs weaver. You may want to reread the op. > > > > > > > > > > I'm aware of what the OP said ... and it doesn't change anything I've said because I'm not someone that replies in threads without reading what they are about. > > > > > > > > > > Anet can't cater to how you or anyone else thinks the game should work. Swapping elements IS the class mechanic for ele. Based on those things, ele DOES have a class mechanic and it doesn't need to change because it doesn't work the way you think it should. Therefore, the answer here is to exercise class choices you have available to you based on whatever criteria you want to use to make that choice. > > > > > > > > > > If you want to talk about how ele performs vs. it's especs, that _can't_ be a '_ele doesn't have a true class mechanic_' problem because that statement is FALSE. Do not try to pretend that lack of balance on ele is because it lacks a class mechanic ... because it DOESN'T. > > > > > > > > But.... tempest and weaver have the same mechanic + there own. > > > > > > OK ... that doesn't mean Ele DOESN'T have a class mechanic. My point of view should be pretty clear at this point so if you haven't figured it out, you just aren't paying attention. You can't talk about changing a class based on a false claim. That's nonsense. > > > > > > > It means ele core has no reason for existing if other version of it gets the same effect but only to get an added one. > > Except that's not true. Core ele plays different than it's especs ... and that's MORE than enough reason for it to exist. In fact, Anet says that's the primary reason for the existence of the class and it's especs. They are just variations on a theme. > Core ele plays the same as tempest it even play close if not the same as weaver with a bit of a delay in-between swaps and if you sit in an atument longer then 4 sec you effectively play the same as a core ele any way. The only thing the elite spec got was power creep over core ele and anet has done nothing more then to nerf core ele to make tempest and weaver not op vs other classes. Most tempest and weaver run staff or scepter they dont run there elite spec weapons at all because there no need to and they are nothing more then ele +1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At some point you got to realize its not enofe to have 2 more "swaps" the other classes there needs to be something there a real reason to swap and right now there not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe ... but that's NOT a lacking mechanic problem. This thread is NOT a complaint about balance. Whether you think it's enough or not or that there isn't a real reason to swap ... is irrelevant. That's just dependent on how YOU view and play the class. Anet can't cater the game around how you think the game should work. If you don't like how there isn't a reason for you to swap elements in Core ele ... don't play core ele if how the class mechanic works is part of your class choice criteria. That's not that bad answer you think it is ... that's THE answer for anyone making a class choice based on whatever criteria they are using. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swapping elements IS a real class mechanic, just like how many other classes have a swapping concept in their mechanics as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That not a question of balance its a question of making a mechanic worth something ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, that's a matter of personal preference and opinion about how YOU play the class ... and as long as Anet can't change the game to cater to how everyone thinks the game should work, it's not going to change because you don't think it's worth using. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fire should burn how is that a personal preference!? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you are asking me. Fire should burn? Answer: Sure. Is this a trick question or? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok you DO agree. > > > > > > > > > I think fire skill should have burning tide to them air skill should have a "shock" or "blowing" effect to them water skill should be a "wet" and "chilling" effect and earth needs a "blungen" and "dusty" effect to them. All skills not just the 15 sec cd big hit skills but all of the 1 skills. And the ele core should get the most out of these effects then say tempest and weaver. Kind of a you are the trait lines you chose to use as a core ele. Kind of like the old ele from gw1. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm going to be clear here because I don't appreciate the ruse that I'm somehow agreeing with your point of view based on some nonsensical questions that are unrelated to the topic. None of this has anything to do with what we are talking about and whether I agree with this or not is irrelevant to the point in question. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet can't cater to how you or anyone else thinks the game should work. Swapping elements IS the class mechanic for ele. Based on those things, ele DOES have a class mechanic and it doesn't need to change because it doesn't work the way you think it should. These are not debatable statements. They are TRUE. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you have a problem with how ele performs, that's fine, but that's NOT what we are talking about here. The lack of a profession mechanic (which isn't a problem on ele in the _first_ place) is not necessarily related to how that class performs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But every effect is balancing but we are talking about ele core vs tempest vs weaver. You may want to reread the op. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm aware of what the OP said ... and it doesn't change anything I've said because I'm not someone that replies in threads without reading what they are about. > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet can't cater to how you or anyone else thinks the game should work. Swapping elements IS the class mechanic for ele. Based on those things, ele DOES have a class mechanic and it doesn't need to change because it doesn't work the way you think it should. Therefore, the answer here is to exercise class choices you have available to you based on whatever criteria you want to use to make that choice. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you want to talk about how ele performs vs. it's especs, that _can't_ be a '_ele doesn't have a true class mechanic_' problem because that statement is FALSE. Do not try to pretend that lack of balance on ele is because it lacks a class mechanic ... because it DOESN'T. > > > > > > > > > > But.... tempest and weaver have the same mechanic + there own. > > > > > > > > OK ... that doesn't mean Ele DOESN'T have a class mechanic. My point of view should be pretty clear at this point so if you haven't figured it out, you just aren't paying attention. You can't talk about changing a class based on a false claim. That's nonsense. > > > > > > > > > > It means ele core has no reason for existing if other version of it gets the same effect but only to get an added one. > > > > Except that's not true. Core ele plays different than it's especs ... and that's MORE than enough reason for it to exist. In fact, Anet says that's the primary reason for the existence of the class and it's especs. They are just variations on a theme. > > > > Core ele plays the same as tempest it even play close if not the same as weaver with a bit of a delay in-between swaps and if you sit in an atument longer then 4 sec you effectively play the same as a core ele any way. Maybe for you, that's true, but that's not a universal truth for everyone. I can assure you ... I do NOT play weaver and tempest the same way I play ele, even if they are similar. I'm sure I'm not the only one. You don't speak for everyone. Again, it's about choices and how people want to play. Anet can't change the game to cater to how everyone thinks it should play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliamRationem.5172 Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At some point you got to realize its not enofe to have 2 more "swaps" the other classes there needs to be something there a real reason to swap and right now there not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe ... but that's NOT a lacking mechanic problem. This thread is NOT a complaint about balance. Whether you think it's enough or not or that there isn't a real reason to swap ... is irrelevant. That's just dependent on how YOU view and play the class. Anet can't cater the game around how you think the game should work. If you don't like how there isn't a reason for you to swap elements in Core ele ... don't play core ele if how the class mechanic works is part of your class choice criteria. That's not that bad answer you think it is ... that's THE answer for anyone making a class choice based on whatever criteria they are using. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swapping elements IS a real class mechanic, just like how many other classes have a swapping concept in their mechanics as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That not a question of balance its a question of making a mechanic worth something ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, that's a matter of personal preference and opinion about how YOU play the class ... and as long as Anet can't change the game to cater to how everyone thinks the game should work, it's not going to change because you don't think it's worth using. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fire should burn how is that a personal preference!? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you are asking me. Fire should burn? Answer: Sure. Is this a trick question or? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok you DO agree. > > > > > > > > > I think fire skill should have burning tide to them air skill should have a "shock" or "blowing" effect to them water skill should be a "wet" and "chilling" effect and earth needs a "blungen" and "dusty" effect to them. All skills not just the 15 sec cd big hit skills but all of the 1 skills. And the ele core should get the most out of these effects then say tempest and weaver. Kind of a you are the trait lines you chose to use as a core ele. Kind of like the old ele from gw1. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm going to be clear here because I don't appreciate the ruse that I'm somehow agreeing with your point of view based on some nonsensical questions that are unrelated to the topic. None of this has anything to do with what we are talking about and whether I agree with this or not is irrelevant to the point in question. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet can't cater to how you or anyone else thinks the game should work. Swapping elements IS the class mechanic for ele. Based on those things, ele DOES have a class mechanic and it doesn't need to change because it doesn't work the way you think it should. These are not debatable statements. They are TRUE. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you have a problem with how ele performs, that's fine, but that's NOT what we are talking about here. The lack of a profession mechanic (which isn't a problem on ele in the _first_ place) is not necessarily related to how that class performs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But every effect is balancing but we are talking about ele core vs tempest vs weaver. You may want to reread the op. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm aware of what the OP said ... and it doesn't change anything I've said because I'm not someone that replies in threads without reading what they are about. > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet can't cater to how you or anyone else thinks the game should work. Swapping elements IS the class mechanic for ele. Based on those things, ele DOES have a class mechanic and it doesn't need to change because it doesn't work the way you think it should. Therefore, the answer here is to exercise class choices you have available to you based on whatever criteria you want to use to make that choice. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you want to talk about how ele performs vs. it's especs, that _can't_ be a '_ele doesn't have a true class mechanic_' problem because that statement is FALSE. Do not try to pretend that lack of balance on ele is because it lacks a class mechanic ... because it DOESN'T. > > > > > > > > > > But.... tempest and weaver have the same mechanic + there own. > > > > > > > > OK ... that doesn't mean Ele DOESN'T have a class mechanic. My point of view should be pretty clear at this point so if you haven't figured it out, you just aren't paying attention. You can't talk about changing a class based on a false claim. That's nonsense. > > > > > > > > > > It means ele core has no reason for existing if other version of it gets the same effect but only to get an added one. > > > > Except that's not true. Core ele plays different than it's especs ... and that's MORE than enough reason for it to exist. In fact, Anet says that's the primary reason for the existence of the class and it's especs. They are just variations on a theme. > > > > Core ele plays the same as tempest it even play close if not the same as weaver with a bit of a delay in-between swaps and if you sit in an atument longer then 4 sec you effectively play the same as a core ele any way. > > The only thing the elite spec got was power creep over core ele and anet has done nothing more then to nerf core ele to make tempest and weaver not op vs other classes. Most tempest and weaver run staff or scepter they dont run there elite spec weapons at all because there no need to and they are nothing more then ele +1. What are you talking about? Sword is a popular weapon for weaver and weaver plays nothing like core ele. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At some point you got to realize its not enofe to have 2 more "swaps" the other classes there needs to be something there a real reason to swap and right now there not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe ... but that's NOT a lacking mechanic problem. This thread is NOT a complaint about balance. Whether you think it's enough or not or that there isn't a real reason to swap ... is irrelevant. That's just dependent on how YOU view and play the class. Anet can't cater the game around how you think the game should work. If you don't like how there isn't a reason for you to swap elements in Core ele ... don't play core ele if how the class mechanic works is part of your class choice criteria. That's not that bad answer you think it is ... that's THE answer for anyone making a class choice based on whatever criteria they are using. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swapping elements IS a real class mechanic, just like how many other classes have a swapping concept in their mechanics as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That not a question of balance its a question of making a mechanic worth something ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, that's a matter of personal preference and opinion about how YOU play the class ... and as long as Anet can't change the game to cater to how everyone thinks the game should work, it's not going to change because you don't think it's worth using. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fire should burn how is that a personal preference!? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you are asking me. Fire should burn? Answer: Sure. Is this a trick question or? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok you DO agree. > > > > > > > > > > I think fire skill should have burning tide to them air skill should have a "shock" or "blowing" effect to them water skill should be a "wet" and "chilling" effect and earth needs a "blungen" and "dusty" effect to them. All skills not just the 15 sec cd big hit skills but all of the 1 skills. And the ele core should get the most out of these effects then say tempest and weaver. Kind of a you are the trait lines you chose to use as a core ele. Kind of like the old ele from gw1. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm going to be clear here because I don't appreciate the ruse that I'm somehow agreeing with your point of view based on some nonsensical questions that are unrelated to the topic. None of this has anything to do with what we are talking about and whether I agree with this or not is irrelevant to the point in question. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet can't cater to how you or anyone else thinks the game should work. Swapping elements IS the class mechanic for ele. Based on those things, ele DOES have a class mechanic and it doesn't need to change because it doesn't work the way you think it should. These are not debatable statements. They are TRUE. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you have a problem with how ele performs, that's fine, but that's NOT what we are talking about here. The lack of a profession mechanic (which isn't a problem on ele in the _first_ place) is not necessarily related to how that class performs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But every effect is balancing but we are talking about ele core vs tempest vs weaver. You may want to reread the op. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm aware of what the OP said ... and it doesn't change anything I've said because I'm not someone that replies in threads without reading what they are about. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet can't cater to how you or anyone else thinks the game should work. Swapping elements IS the class mechanic for ele. Based on those things, ele DOES have a class mechanic and it doesn't need to change because it doesn't work the way you think it should. Therefore, the answer here is to exercise class choices you have available to you based on whatever criteria you want to use to make that choice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you want to talk about how ele performs vs. it's especs, that _can't_ be a '_ele doesn't have a true class mechanic_' problem because that statement is FALSE. Do not try to pretend that lack of balance on ele is because it lacks a class mechanic ... because it DOESN'T. > > > > > > > > > > > > But.... tempest and weaver have the same mechanic + there own. > > > > > > > > > > OK ... that doesn't mean Ele DOESN'T have a class mechanic. My point of view should be pretty clear at this point so if you haven't figured it out, you just aren't paying attention. You can't talk about changing a class based on a false claim. That's nonsense. > > > > > > > > > > > > > It means ele core has no reason for existing if other version of it gets the same effect but only to get an added one. > > > > > > Except that's not true. Core ele plays different than it's especs ... and that's MORE than enough reason for it to exist. In fact, Anet says that's the primary reason for the existence of the class and it's especs. They are just variations on a theme. > > > > > > > Core ele plays the same as tempest it even play close if not the same as weaver with a bit of a delay in-between swaps and if you sit in an atument longer then 4 sec you effectively play the same as a core ele any way. > > Maybe for you, that's true, but that's not a universal truth for everyone. I can assure you ... I do NOT play weaver and tempest the same way I play ele, even if they are similar. I'm sure I'm not the only one. You don't speak for everyone. > > Again, it's about choices and how people want to play. Anet can't change the game to cater to how everyone thinks it should play. But what game type are we talking about here the op is talking about pve mostly fractals. You need to push dmg so you need to sit in fire a long time and in a way is room for balancing of core ele to have a real tool from its swap by letting it have passive effects all of the time regardless what atument your in. This would be harder for classes like tempest who will lose out passive effect and weaver who needs to swap on some level to up keep its +10%. You sure seem to speak for every one by suggesting there ideals are so bad that they need to simply play another class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > But what game type are we talking about here the op is talking about pve mostly fractals. Whatever game mode you want to talk about doesn't change the fact that what you said is NOT applicable to everyone. If you play weaver and tempest the same way you play ele, that's YOUR loss and your _CHOICE_ ... but it's not a fundamental truth that tempest and weaver play like ele and therefore ele lacks a class mechanic and needs to be fixed. You sure do want to cover all the angles ... we got the time. >You sure seem to speak for every one by suggesting there ideals are so bad ... I made NO such suggestion EVER in this thread. I did notice you ignored this though: > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > The only thing the elite spec got was power creep over core ele and anet has done nothing more then to nerf core ele to make tempest and weaver not op vs other classes. Most tempest and weaver run staff or scepter they dont run there elite spec weapons at all because there no need to and they are nothing more then ele +1. > > What are you talking about? Sword is a popular weapon for weaver and weaver plays nothing like core ele. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > But what game type are we talking about here the op is talking about pve mostly fractals. > > Whatever game mode you want to talk about doesn't change the fact that what you said is NOT applicable to everyone. If you play weaver and tempest the same way you play ele, that's YOUR loss and your _CHOICE_ ... but it's not a fundamental truth that tempest and weaver play like ele and therefore ele lacks a class mechanic and needs to be fixed. You sure do want to cover all the angles ... we got the time. > >You sure seem to speak for every one by suggesting there ideals are so bad ... > > I made NO such suggestion. I did notice you ignored this though: > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > The only thing the elite spec got was power creep over core ele and anet has done nothing more then to nerf core ele to make tempest and weaver not op vs other classes. Most tempest and weaver run staff or scepter they dont run there elite spec weapons at all because there no need to and they are nothing more then ele +1. > > > > What are you talking about? Sword is a popular weapon for weaver and weaver plays nothing like core ele. > > But you can play tempest as a core ele if you never use its overloades you can also play weaver as if it a core ele with unravla (that and a lot of what makes weaver better is to make its swap cd even lower making it closer to a core ele game play. "Hey ... you know what the answer is? Choose another profession! That's not just being glib either. That's the reason other classes exist." You did and the op made the suggestion i am agreeing with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrollingDemigod.3041 Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 It's funny, because Tempest and Weaver are just Ele+ and always has been lmao. Tempest would be true elite specialization if "4 elements" would become something completely different, like Tempest theme is "storm and wind", so why not replace all 4 elements with Storm themed skills or even make it one element with possible weapon swap, oh right that would require some coding and a lot of work for new skills for each weapon type, since 20 weapon skills are binded to "elements". Instead we've got some overload skill and shouts that grants aura, last minute design for sure. And we have Weaver which should "weave 2 elements together" to get something new, yet we've got some cheap thief ripoff that's buggy as hell. It would be much better if we've got some "combine these 2 attuments to produce a new one and it's combined skills as well" and make it x2, so you could switch between combination of for example: Fire/Water(Steam element) and Fire/Earth(Magma Element) without weapon swap and you would have something nice, but again that would require a bit of work to make it work, right? Sorry to destroy your bubble, but so far only one class have a proper elite specializations in this game and that's Necromancer, which class mechanics truly do change with your choice. Everything else is just core+ and that'll never change since you have 1 traitline vs 5 traitlines. Lazy design and that's it. It's really sad though, class such as an Elementalist have so many possible themes for e-speces, yet we've got such poor designs so far. It could literally become something truly amazing, yet it was decided that it'll become nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 > @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > But what game type are we talking about here the op is talking about pve mostly fractals. > > > > Whatever game mode you want to talk about doesn't change the fact that what you said is NOT applicable to everyone. If you play weaver and tempest the same way you play ele, that's YOUR loss and your _CHOICE_ ... but it's not a fundamental truth that tempest and weaver play like ele and therefore ele lacks a class mechanic and needs to be fixed. You sure do want to cover all the angles ... we got the time. > > >You sure seem to speak for every one by suggesting there ideals are so bad ... > > > > I made NO such suggestion. I did notice you ignored this though: > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > The only thing the elite spec got was power creep over core ele and anet has done nothing more then to nerf core ele to make tempest and weaver not op vs other classes. Most tempest and weaver run staff or scepter they dont run there elite spec weapons at all because there no need to and they are nothing more then ele +1. > > > > > > What are you talking about? Sword is a popular weapon for weaver and weaver plays nothing like core ele. > > > > > > But you can play tempest as a core ele if you never use its overloades you can also play weaver as if it a core ele with unravla (that and a lot of what makes weaver better is to make its swap cd even lower making it closer to a core ele game play. That's true ... but it doesn't change what I said. If you play weaver and tempest the same way you play ele, that's YOUR loss and your _CHOICE_ ... but it's not a fundamental truth that everyone plays tempest and weaver like ele and therefore ele lacks a class mechanic and needs to be fixed. In fact, if you DON'T play them like ele, you see why you are wrong and just how different they actually are. > > You did and the op made the suggestion i am agreeing with. OK ... You can agree with his suggestion. You keep saying it should be changed because there isn't a reason to play core ele over it's especs ... but lots of people DO play ele, for whatever reason it is they want to do so. Therefore, you're reason to change it is wrong. It's just WRONG. Sounds to me what's happening here is that there is an idea people like and are willing to say anything to be compelling to have it changed, even if those things are _wrong_. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > But what game type are we talking about here the op is talking about pve mostly fractals. > > > > > > Whatever game mode you want to talk about doesn't change the fact that what you said is NOT applicable to everyone. If you play weaver and tempest the same way you play ele, that's YOUR loss and your _CHOICE_ ... but it's not a fundamental truth that tempest and weaver play like ele and therefore ele lacks a class mechanic and needs to be fixed. You sure do want to cover all the angles ... we got the time. > > > >You sure seem to speak for every one by suggesting there ideals are so bad ... > > > > > > I made NO such suggestion. I did notice you ignored this though: > > > > > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > The only thing the elite spec got was power creep over core ele and anet has done nothing more then to nerf core ele to make tempest and weaver not op vs other classes. Most tempest and weaver run staff or scepter they dont run there elite spec weapons at all because there no need to and they are nothing more then ele +1. > > > > > > > > What are you talking about? Sword is a popular weapon for weaver and weaver plays nothing like core ele. > > > > > > > > > > But you can play tempest as a core ele if you never use its overloades you can also play weaver as if it a core ele with unravla (that and a lot of what makes weaver better is to make its swap cd even lower making it closer to a core ele game play. > > > That's true ... but it doesn't change what I said. If you play weaver and tempest the same way you play ele, that's YOUR loss and your _CHOICE_ ... but it's not a fundamental truth that everyone plays tempest and weaver like ele and therefore ele lacks a class mechanic and needs to be fixed. In fact, if you DON'T play them like ele, you see why you are wrong and just how different they actually are. > > > > You did and the op made the suggestion i am agreeing with. > > OK ... You can agree with his suggestion. You keep saying it should be changed because there isn't a reason to play core ele over it's especs ... but lots of people DO play ele, for whatever reason it is they want to do so. Therefore, you're reason to change it is wrong. It's just WRONG. Sounds to me what's happening here is that there is an idea people like and are willing to say anything to be compelling to have it changed, even if those things are _wrong_. > > But your making out as if my views and the views of the op cant even be said i am not anet and i do not like the way they are running things so i committed a great crime. Your getting back into that cult mind set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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