Anyone Hoping For A Support Warrior Spec?

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Jagblade.4627" said:

> Please no, half of warrior's main builds are already support builds like banner slaves.

>

> > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > Yes, but with Pistols, or a land spear. Keep you staff.

>

> Also please no. Don't turn P/P into a support build if we get it. Warriors needs a viable ranged DPS build. The rifle has been nerfed into the ground and the bows while not quite as useless are still pretty useless.

 

Nothing keeping the weapon bar from being DPS. Support can come from E-Spec mechanic, utilities, and traits.

[draxynnic.3719]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> The Seraph generally all have guardian vibes fwiw.

 

I think they were always supposed to have guardians in their ranks thematically, but the archers use warrior bow skills, and I'm pretty sure the sword-and-shield Seraph are using warrior skills as well. Some of the Queen's Champion bosses back in that event might have had guardian abilities (and, of course, there's Logan), but up until Lake Doric, the 'generic' Seraph all used warrior skills. The polearm Seraph introduced there were an exception.

 

Which makes a lot of sense when you consider that even though guardian originated among humans, most human soldiers are still going to be warriors. I don't think any of the races have enough guardians for them to be the general rank and file.

[Aaron.1294]

@"Lan Deathrider.5910" and because of tactics warrior doesn't need support-oriented spec

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Aaron.1294" said:

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" and because of tactics warrior doesn't need support-oriented spec

 

By that logic warrior didn't need Berserker because it has Strength and Arms.

 

The existence of Tactics is in no way justification for not having a support espec.

[Aaron.1294]

@"Lan Deathrider.5910" it is. It shows why warr is just a bad class as a support.

[draxynnic.3719]

> @"Aaron.1294" said:

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" it is. It shows why warr is just a bad class as a support.

 

Would you have slotted Guardian in for support in the period between HoT's release and PoF's? Similar situation.

[Aaron.1294]

@"draxynnic.3719" yes? Wha is this question even.

[draxynnic.3719]

> @"Aaron.1294" said:

> @"draxynnic.3719" yes? Wha is this question even.

 

You might, but the general consensus at the time was that guardians were pretty much DPS only, except in WvW. Maybe they could contribute a bit to quickness through Feel My Wrath!, but that's about equivalent to what warriors have now through Tactics and banners. The core professions are designed with pre-HoT levels of support in mind - it took Firebrand to really make guardian a serious contender for support.

[Aaron.1294]

@"draxynnic.3719" they still had and will always have better tools to be a support rather than a joke.

Also back then ppl played dps only core guard bcuz it was 1-shot from 1200 range :)

[draxynnic.3719]

> @"Aaron.1294" said:

> @"draxynnic.3719" they still had and will always have better tools to be a support rather than a joke.

> Also back then ppl played dps only core guard bcuz it was 1-shot from 1200 range :)

 

Core guardian still isn't going to compete with the likes of druid or tempest for support unless you specifically want stability. Meanwhile, with the nerfs to firebrand and tempest, healbreaker has become the meta support build in sPvP, and in high-end PvE, banner warriors are pretty much stapled to the meta teambuilds. The potential is clearly there.

[Aaron.1294]

@"draxynnic.3719" but healbreaker IS a joke of a support. IT IS literally a meme dat shouldn't be viable but it is. Also banner warrior such wow much fun - another meme held by anet balance system.

[Aaron.1294]

@"draxynnic.3719" and u can see lotos of core guards playing as supports in rankeds and even ats.

[Aridon.8362]

I did not choose warrior to be what guardians and rangers, from a literal artistic perspective were meant to do. Thanks but warriors are killers not wound lickers.

[Aridon.8362]

> @"Aaron.1294" said:

> @"draxynnic.3719" but healbreaker IS a joke of a support. IT IS literally a meme dat shouldn't be viable but it is. Also banner warrior such wow much fun - another meme held by anet balance system.

 

I agree with this, what the hell is a healbreaker? ;)

[Skyy.5380]

I was reading about a monk spec in another thread and I really got into it. My idea of a great support build as a new elite specc would be a NO WEAPON "Monk" that as an class mechanic can swap between ying & yang (names are optional).

 

The Warrior already has almost all weapons available in the game so a no weapon variant would make sense. Being able to upgrade your fists and/or getting fistweapons (foci as option) if no weapon would be 2 problematic.

 

The idea is that you can swap between ying & yang to alter between offensive and defensive boons (instead of a weapon swap). Ying offers you 5 unique skills that give protecting boons like Regeneration, Aegis and maybe Resistancew. Yang offers you 5 unique skills, more damage orientated that offer offensive boons like Might, Fury and Quickness. As an "Adrenalin" skill you could get something that can refresh the durations of your boons or renew it therefore used at the CORRECT TIME can be massively benefitial but requires some game knowledge to register those moments.

 

The elite skill could be some kind of stationary healing source; Massive heal output for a short time but stationary so people have to stand close by (I stole the idea of wow's Tranquility on druid). Correctly used can outsustain even heavy boss damage in raids, wasted punishes you with a long cooldown (even possible to discount cooldown if yo heal (not overheal!) certain amounts to make it harder to master).

 

This makes it very interesting to play in raids/fractals. It can't be able to maintain all boons on max stats (by weapon swapping) tho because that would be way 2 overpowerd. You rather have to choose if you want offensive or defensive boons on that specific time. Offensive boons deals way more dps passively and actively due to the nature of the weapon skills, protecting boons therefore less dps, more heals/cleanses etc.

 

The concept of a Monk fits well into cantha's theme, I'm not sure if warrior is the correct place to put it tho.

[SASHI.7260]

Support Warrior ESPEC! PLEASE!! SO I CAN SHOUT HEAL MORE!!

[draxynnic.3719]

> @"Aaron.1294" said:

> @"draxynnic.3719" but healbreaker IS a joke of a support. IT IS literally a meme dat shouldn't be viable but it is. Also banner warrior such wow much fun - another meme held by anet balance system.

 

Where it's probably actually coming from is that the other supports have been nerfed so much in sPvP that healbreaker has risen to the top simply through the competition having been shot down.

 

But that's the point. An elite spec could be the thing that brings it all together.

 

I'd also note that shout warrior was a thing in the pre-HoT days as well. _ArenaNet intended all professions to be able to support._ It's just that some professions have elite specs that enhance this, and this generally allows them to support better than those professions that don't. (Until they get nerfed to death in sPvP, anyway).

 

It's not like spellbreaker or berserker are going to go away, and the majority of the support especs also work perfectly well as DPS builds with the right gear and traits anyway.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"draxynnic.3719" said:

> > @"Aaron.1294" said:

> > @"draxynnic.3719" but healbreaker IS a joke of a support. IT IS literally a meme dat shouldn't be viable but it is. Also banner warrior such wow much fun - another meme held by anet balance system.

>

> Where it's probably actually coming from is that the other supports have been nerfed so much in sPvP that healbreaker has risen to the top simply through the competition having been shot down.

>

> But that's the point. An elite spec could be the thing that brings it all together.

>

> I'd also note that shout warrior was a thing in the pre-HoT days as well. _ArenaNet intended all professions to be able to support._ It's just that some professions have elite specs that enhance this, and this generally allows them to support better than those professions that don't. (Until they get nerfed to death in sPvP, anyway).

>

> It's not like spellbreaker or berserker are going to go away, and the majority of the support especs also work perfectly well as DPS builds with the right gear and traits anyway.

 

This sums up the debate nicely I think. All the core classes from the beginning were supposed to do any of Control, Damage, or Support and each of the especs we've received has emphasized these roles.

 

Berserker is primarily a damage spec with some control mixed in via it's Primal Bursts and utilities.

Spellbreaker is primarily a spec that mixes control and support (the boon ripping part, but that mostly it) with a little bit of extra damage and self sustain. Its very versatile hence why it is popular. I suspect that with the EoD prepatch that you'll see some part of it nerfed to be less versatile to make way for the new spec. I suspect that MBT will get nerfed more at least (5% extra damage versus the 10% now).

 

I suspect that the new spec will be primarily a support with damage (either personal dps boosts or group dps boosts) mixed into it. So you'd be able to roll complete support with it using Disc, Tact, Espec or go full DPS with Str, Disc, Espec (or swapping either Str or Disc for Arms or Tact with relevant traits taken).

[Aaron.1294]

@"Lan Deathrider.5910"We have a support. It's called spellbreaker. We don't need any other "support-based" spec because spellbreaker offers unique playstyle compared to other supports. Warrior shouldn't be tempest, guardian or other stupid thing dat slowly destroy the whole game. Want something new? pPay a different class. Simple.

[draxynnic.3719]

Spellbreaker isn't support.

 

Healbreaker doesn't use a single spellbreaker skill apart from having a dagger as one of its mainhand weapons, and that's 100% offensive (but warrior doesn't have any supportive mainhand weapons, so dagger is as good for a support build as anything else). The only spellbreaker skill that's even vaguely aimed towards helping allies is the elite.

 

Similarly, not one of the spellbreaker traits provides benefits for your allies.

 

Spellbreaker is taken purely because it helps you stay alive so you _can_ use the core warrior shouts, banner, and warhorn to support. You can make the build with berserker (I've done it) and it works... it's just less able to stay alive and berserkers generally are as bad as reapers when it comes to immediately attracting the enemy team's target marker above their head, so you want that extra self-protection.

 

Broadly speaking, most elite specialisations fall into three categories: DPS, tank/control, and support (noting, again, that most support-oriented elites can also be built for DPS). Spellbreaker is tank/control and berserker is DPS.

 

EDIT: Just to clarify, when I said it doesn't use a single spellbreaker skill, I wasn't counting Full Counter. That's obviously an important part of the survivability side, but it's something you get automatically for taking SB, not something you pick up. The point is that the entire utility side of the bar is occupied by support skills that aren't from spellbreaker, and the support offhand isn't from spellbreaker either.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

All that and for a support elite, it needs at minimum a one handed MH to pair with warhorn.

 

Pistol could lay down fields and blast them for enhanced effects to grant support to allies while carrying a warhorn.

[draxynnic.3719]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> All that and for a support elite, it needs at minimum a one handed MH to pair with warhorn.

>

> Pistol could lay down fields and blast them for enhanced effects to grant support to allies while carrying a warhorn.

 

Potentially. Strictly speaking, though, it could have a two-handed weapon and warhorn in the other set. Or it might have good enough support that you can afford not to use warhorn. Pistol (or pistols) could certainly work well, though.

[XenoSpyro.1780]

> @"MatyrGustav.6210" said:

> For aoe Healing. Just what i would personally want

There's already AoE healing on Warrior. It's called Shout skills.

 

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"draxynnic.3719" said:

> > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > All that and for a support elite, it needs at minimum a one handed MH to pair with warhorn.

> >

> > Pistol could lay down fields and blast them for enhanced effects to grant support to allies while carrying a warhorn.

>

> Potentially. Strictly speaking, though, it could have a two-handed weapon and warhorn in the other set. Or it might have good enough support that you can afford not to use warhorn. Pistol (or pistols) could certainly work well, though.

 

True, but pistol/horn would work well along with OH Pistol helping with support/dps.

 

I see it as a golden opportunity to revitalize finishers.

[Aaron.1294]

@"draxynnic.3719" U do realize dat a support doesn't need to actually like "heal" allies. He can, for example rippin boons from the enemies so they are easier to kill, interrupt them so they are easier to kill, SLOW them so their skills are slower. Insane right? If u think spellbreaker is not a support ur definition of a support is very limited.