borgs.6103 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Sure, why not? I totally agree with this! They could even sell it in bundles of 5, 10 or 25. Every use gives you a random mastery point from Central Tyria, HoT, or PoF! Heck, why stop there? They could also apply this bundle for Achievements! Think of those achievements you've been wanting to complete but don't have the skill nor the patience to complete! Just buy a bundle from the gemstore and complete a random achievement! Woohoo! Awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpellboundTutor.4257 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Strong Disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 > @"Hesione.9412" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Donutdude.9582" said: > > > No. I am vehemently against this idea. > > > > > > Mastery points are awarded for _mastering_ aspects of the game, from exploration to combat. > > > > C'mon now ... Mastery points are primarily awarded to people who zerg on Champ mobs or can get a portal. You don't have master anything to get them. > > > > Put it this way ... if having to be a MASTER in PVE game aspects is necessary to get MPs to progress in the game ... then that is a HUGE problem that Anet needs to address ASAP because this game was NOT originally meant for the tryhard MMO market ... and CAN'T survive appealing to it. > > > > So it is easy to get mastery points then. Just zerg on champ mobs. > > Masteries do give an advantage, just look at the fractals ones, as an example. Masteries also give you better mount abilities and later mounts in PoF are locked behind masteries of earlier mount abilities. The mount abilities are advantages. > > Mastery points are not for the "try-hard" players. There are a lot more players with high levels of mastery points than there are raiding, for example. I have also seen high-end raiders with few masteries points because they are not interested in the mastery point aspects of the game - apart from those that give an advantage to raiding. > > Masteries are gained by simply playing the game. No-one has to raid, for example, in order to get them. Many of them are given just from completing story chapters. So they are an inherent part of _playing the game_. Asking for them to be purchasable is asking for the ability to not play the game. > > This is where I get stuck. Why do some players want to not play the game? I won't debate your points; there isn't a right or wrong here. It's not unreasonable to ask for alternative approaches to obtain progression-limiting elements. Perhaps they shouldn't be purchasable outright, but it's not out of the question if they were. Even though it's weird that some players do not want to play the game to achieve things ... not understanding that doesn't change the underlying request for alternatives and choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chyanne Waters.8719 Posted November 28, 2020 Author Share Posted November 28, 2020 > @"knite.1542" said: > > @"Hesione.9412" said: > > > This is where I get stuck. Why do some players want to not play the game? > > This "not want to play the game" statement really confuses me, but I will try my best to answer you. > > The simplest answer is, farming mastery points is boring. I don't see getting mastery points as a fun part of "playing the game", I see it as a thing I have to do to play the game. Just like leveling up, just like unlocking hero points. That is like asking "Why are you leveling up with tomes of knowledge? Don't people want to play the game?" > Being able to buy mastery points will not have any negative impact anyone that doesn't like the idea. You can already buy hero points with ingame currency. Why would this be so different? > > And for everyone saying it is pay to win, it is really not. Either way, I am not trying to change your mind, but I just want to point out that some people get enjoyment out of different aspects of the game and I find it crazy how people get so up in arms about someone wanting to be able to skip a pretty boring grindy part of it. Getting these mastery points doesn't take a whole lot of effort (for the most part) but it is extremely time consuming. That is the main reason I haven't gotten it done on any of my alts. If mastery points were as easy to see and get as hero points are then this suggestion would not be needed. Nope they are hidden in achievement so it makes them an extra few steps to get. That I believe are not needed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raizel.1839 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 > @"Smoosh.2718" said: > Can people STOP trying to make PC games Mobile games.... > > Mobile games are a cancer on PC/Console games and they really need to be stamped out. This, so much THIS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesione.9412 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Hesione.9412" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Donutdude.9582" said: > > > > No. I am vehemently against this idea. > > > > > > > > Mastery points are awarded for _mastering_ aspects of the game, from exploration to combat. > > > > > > C'mon now ... Mastery points are primarily awarded to people who zerg on Champ mobs or can get a portal. You don't have master anything to get them. > > > > > > Put it this way ... if having to be a MASTER in PVE game aspects is necessary to get MPs to progress in the game ... then that is a HUGE problem that Anet needs to address ASAP because this game was NOT originally meant for the tryhard MMO market ... and CAN'T survive appealing to it. > > > > > > > So it is easy to get mastery points then. Just zerg on champ mobs. > > > > Masteries do give an advantage, just look at the fractals ones, as an example. Masteries also give you better mount abilities and later mounts in PoF are locked behind masteries of earlier mount abilities. The mount abilities are advantages. > > > > Mastery points are not for the "try-hard" players. There are a lot more players with high levels of mastery points than there are raiding, for example. I have also seen high-end raiders with few masteries points because they are not interested in the mastery point aspects of the game - apart from those that give an advantage to raiding. > > > > Masteries are gained by simply playing the game. No-one has to raid, for example, in order to get them. Many of them are given just from completing story chapters. So they are an inherent part of _playing the game_. Asking for them to be purchasable is asking for the ability to not play the game. > > > > This is where I get stuck. Why do some players want to not play the game? > > I won't debate your points; there isn't a right or wrong here. It's not unreasonable to ask for alternative approaches to obtain progression-limiting elements. Perhaps they shouldn't be purchasable outright, but it's not out of the question if they were. Even though it's weird that some players do not want to play the game to achieve things ... not understanding that doesn't change the underlying request for alternatives and choice. I don't see how playing the game is a progression-limiting element to playing the game. What you are asking for is literally to pay to bypass content. Thus, you are asking to pay to not play. And why should players, in your words, "who do not want to play the game to achieve things" get the same outcome as players who did. Again, this is literally asking to pay in order to bypass content. No-one achieves things by bringing out their wallet. That is pay-to-win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 > @"Hesione.9412" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Hesione.9412" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Donutdude.9582" said: > > > > > No. I am vehemently against this idea. > > > > > > > > > > Mastery points are awarded for _mastering_ aspects of the game, from exploration to combat. > > > > > > > > C'mon now ... Mastery points are primarily awarded to people who zerg on Champ mobs or can get a portal. You don't have master anything to get them. > > > > > > > > Put it this way ... if having to be a MASTER in PVE game aspects is necessary to get MPs to progress in the game ... then that is a HUGE problem that Anet needs to address ASAP because this game was NOT originally meant for the tryhard MMO market ... and CAN'T survive appealing to it. > > > > > > > > > > So it is easy to get mastery points then. Just zerg on champ mobs. > > > > > > Masteries do give an advantage, just look at the fractals ones, as an example. Masteries also give you better mount abilities and later mounts in PoF are locked behind masteries of earlier mount abilities. The mount abilities are advantages. > > > > > > Mastery points are not for the "try-hard" players. There are a lot more players with high levels of mastery points than there are raiding, for example. I have also seen high-end raiders with few masteries points because they are not interested in the mastery point aspects of the game - apart from those that give an advantage to raiding. > > > > > > Masteries are gained by simply playing the game. No-one has to raid, for example, in order to get them. Many of them are given just from completing story chapters. So they are an inherent part of _playing the game_. Asking for them to be purchasable is asking for the ability to not play the game. > > > > > > This is where I get stuck. Why do some players want to not play the game? > > > > I won't debate your points; there isn't a right or wrong here. It's not unreasonable to ask for alternative approaches to obtain progression-limiting elements. Perhaps they shouldn't be purchasable outright, but it's not out of the question if they were. Even though it's weird that some players do not want to play the game to achieve things ... not understanding that doesn't change the underlying request for alternatives and choice. > > I don't see how playing the game is a progression-limiting element to playing the game. Playing the game doesn't guarantee success in the game so it's possible to have game designs that block people from progression; this is where alternate paths becomes a very reasonable request for the elements of the game that grant progression. I won't be drawn into an argument about such undefined terms such as pay 2 win or even if it's a problem to have it; it's simply a matter of what the game aims to deliver to the people that play it. This is not even something new to THIS game ... we can already purchase other progression elements. Let's not pretend we can't have progression for sale in this game as an argument to oppose being able to buy MP's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAgedGnome.7520 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 The sale of the [black Lion Instant Level 80 Tickets](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Instant_Level_80_Ticket) and [Waypoint Unlock Boxes](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Waypoint_Unlock_Box) completely nullify and make laughable any argument that sale of mastery points would somehow be a new and unique undermining of "progression". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 > @"TheAgedGnome.7520" said: > The sale of the [black Lion Instant Level 80 Tickets](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Instant_Level_80_Ticket) and [Waypoint Unlock Boxes](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Waypoint_Unlock_Box) completely nullify and make laughable any argument that sale of mastery points would somehow be a new and unique undermining of "progression". No they don't, except that many who oppose the sale of mastery points would gladly remove those 2 items as well (okay let me speak for myself here: "I would gladly remove those 2 as well as some of the other "let's skip parts of this game for cash" gem store items). I absolutely disagree with introducing and increasing the approach of offering game progression via the cash shop. Why? First off due to the reasons mentioned earlier by myself (disconnect of the game) and second: **they incentivize content development which encourages players to want to skip**. Aka you end up with more and more content which is not fun as to encourage players to use the cash shop option, and don't give me the bs that this won't happen because it is happening all over the game landscape. We can't turn back time and undo the already available items, but we can be opposed to more of the same and the slippery slope it leads down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"TheAgedGnome.7520" said: > > The sale of the [black Lion Instant Level 80 Tickets](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Instant_Level_80_Ticket) and [Waypoint Unlock Boxes](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Waypoint_Unlock_Box) completely nullify and make laughable any argument that sale of mastery points would somehow be a new and unique undermining of "progression". > > No they don't, except that many who oppose the sale of mastery points would gladly remove those 2 items as well (okay let me speak for myself here: "I would gladly remove those 2 as well as some of the other "let's skip parts of this game for cash" gem store items). > > I absolutely disagree with introducing and increasing the approach of offering game progression via the cash shop. Why? First off due to the reasons mentioned earlier by myself (disconnect of the game) and second: **they incentivize content development which encourages players to want to skip**. Aka you end up with more and more content which is not fun as to encourage players to use the cash shop option, and don't give me the bs that this won't happen because it is happening all over the game landscape. > > We can't turn back time and undo the already available items, but we can be opposed to more of the same and the slippery slope it leads down. I think the point is that being opposed to an idea has little merit if the idea is already shown to have some level of acceptance. I mean, sure, oppose it, but do it based on reasons that don't defy the reality of the game. It makes no sense for someone to say Anet can't sell MP's because of 'P2W' ... because other progression elements are already being sold in the game. I would argue that the elements are currently sold, are EASIER to achieve than collecting necessary MP's ... so IMO, there is a pretty strong position to be had for selling MP's to ensure players don't get stuck if we can already purchase leveling and waypoint access. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"TheAgedGnome.7520" said: > > > The sale of the [black Lion Instant Level 80 Tickets](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Instant_Level_80_Ticket) and [Waypoint Unlock Boxes](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Waypoint_Unlock_Box) completely nullify and make laughable any argument that sale of mastery points would somehow be a new and unique undermining of "progression". > > > > No they don't, except that many who oppose the sale of mastery points would gladly remove those 2 items as well (okay let me speak for myself here: "I would gladly remove those 2 as well as some of the other "let's skip parts of this game for cash" gem store items). > > > > I absolutely disagree with introducing and increasing the approach of offering game progression via the cash shop. Why? First off due to the reasons mentioned earlier by myself (disconnect of the game) and second: **they incentivize content development which encourages players to want to skip**. Aka you end up with more and more content which is not fun as to encourage players to use the cash shop option, and don't give me the bs that this won't happen because it is happening all over the game landscape. > > > > We can't turn back time and undo the already available items, but we can be opposed to more of the same and the slippery slope it leads down. > > I think the point is that being opposed to an idea has little merit if the idea is already shown to have some level of acceptance. I mean, sure, oppose it, but do it based on reasons that don't defy the reality of the game. It makes no sense for someone to say Anet can't sell MP's because of 'P2W' ... because that's already happening. Sure, that's not an argument I have made myself in this thread so far and actually somewhat disagree with (that this would be serious P2W). Also the P2W argument gets pulled way to early way to often leading to it getting watered down in both directions (either things which are not P2W get declared P2W or things which are more clear P2W get argued that they aren't). In this case there are reasonable other arguments which hold up well enough as to not agree with such an implementation which have nothing to do with P2W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAgedGnome.7520 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"TheAgedGnome.7520" said: > > The sale of the [black Lion Instant Level 80 Tickets](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Instant_Level_80_Ticket) and [Waypoint Unlock Boxes](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Waypoint_Unlock_Box) completely nullify and make laughable any argument that sale of mastery points would somehow be a new and unique undermining of "progression". > > No they don't, except that many who oppose the sale of mastery points would gladly remove those 2 items as well (okay let me speak for myself here: "I would gladly remove those 2 as well as some of the other "let's skip parts of this game for cash" gem store items). These two items have been around for a long time and have not been contentious - there has been no significant protest to remove them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 > @"TheAgedGnome.7520" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"TheAgedGnome.7520" said: > > > The sale of the [black Lion Instant Level 80 Tickets](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Instant_Level_80_Ticket) and [Waypoint Unlock Boxes](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Waypoint_Unlock_Box) completely nullify and make laughable any argument that sale of mastery points would somehow be a new and unique undermining of "progression". > > > > No they don't, except that many who oppose the sale of mastery points would gladly remove those 2 items as well (okay let me speak for myself here: "I would gladly remove those 2 as well as some of the other "let's skip parts of this game for cash" gem store items). > > These two items have been around for a long time and have not been contentious - there has been no significant protest to remove them. > > One of both items is basically a scam of new players (the level 80 boost) and the other was discussed shortly after getting added but dismissed because the most annoying part is actually doing the heart quests. Both of those items got their forum threads on release, as did the permanent harvesting tools and other new items. You merely forgot about them. Both of those items do prove my point though: there is demand for more and more implementation of "skip content for cash". Wait until something gets added which you object to, then remember this day now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAgedGnome.7520 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"TheAgedGnome.7520" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > @"TheAgedGnome.7520" said: > > > > The sale of the [black Lion Instant Level 80 Tickets](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Instant_Level_80_Ticket) and [Waypoint Unlock Boxes](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Waypoint_Unlock_Box) completely nullify and make laughable any argument that sale of mastery points would somehow be a new and unique undermining of "progression". > > > > > > No they don't, except that many who oppose the sale of mastery points would gladly remove those 2 items as well (okay let me speak for myself here: "I would gladly remove those 2 as well as some of the other "let's skip parts of this game for cash" gem store items). > > > > These two items have been around for a long time and have not been contentious - there has been no significant protest to remove them. > > > > > > One of both items is basically a scam of new players (the level 80 boost) and the other was discussed shortly after getting added but dismissed because the most annoying part is actually doing the heart quests. > > Both of those items got their forum threads on release, as did the permanent harvesting tools and other new items. You merely forgot about them. > > Both of those items do prove my point though: there is demand for more and more implementation of "skip content for cash". Wait until something gets added which you object to, then remember this day now. "One of both items is basically a scam of new players..." LOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No, I won't object to mastery points or similar items - that's not an argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 > @"TheAgedGnome.7520" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"TheAgedGnome.7520" said: > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > @"TheAgedGnome.7520" said: > > > > > The sale of the [black Lion Instant Level 80 Tickets](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Instant_Level_80_Ticket) and [Waypoint Unlock Boxes](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Waypoint_Unlock_Box) completely nullify and make laughable any argument that sale of mastery points would somehow be a new and unique undermining of "progression". > > > > > > > > No they don't, except that many who oppose the sale of mastery points would gladly remove those 2 items as well (okay let me speak for myself here: "I would gladly remove those 2 as well as some of the other "let's skip parts of this game for cash" gem store items). > > > > > > These two items have been around for a long time and have not been contentious - there has been no significant protest to remove them. > > > > > > > > > > One of both items is basically a scam of new players (the level 80 boost) and the other was discussed shortly after getting added but dismissed because the most annoying part is actually doing the heart quests. > > > > Both of those items got their forum threads on release, as did the permanent harvesting tools and other new items. You merely forgot about them. > > > > Both of those items do prove my point though: there is demand for more and more implementation of "skip content for cash". Wait until something gets added which you object to, then remember this day now. > > One of both items is basically a scam of new players..." LOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No, I won't object to mastery points or similar items - that's not an argument. Any player of 6 months or longer knows that to be true. Sorry you might have wasted good money on that item. It's designed to rip off players who are clueless as to how fast leveling in this game is and how easy any further characters are leveled especially once you've crossed the 6 months mark. Even the gold you could get instead of the boost would be of more value than the actual boost, and achieve the same result plus a ton of maximum crafting disciplines. EDIT: and just because I felt like checking, using the 2,000 gems a Black Lion Instant Level 80 Ticket costs as conversion into gold, at the time of this writing this amounts to 530 gold (current exchange is around 100 gems -> 26.5 gold). Using those 530 gold and gw2crafts.net (at the time of this writing), one could max ALL crafting professions (using Fast Guides because we have no time to waste) including getting Artificing, Huntsman, Weaponsmithing, Armorcrafting, Leatherworking and Tailoring to 500 (basically all except cooking and scribe, though cooking and scribe could also be maxed if so desired) which would yield a level 80 character AND have 150+ gold left over (which as mentioned could be used to max cooking and scribe). Which if we calculate at a high gold/hour rate of 30 gold per hour gained, equates 5 hours of dedicated farming which would be far longer than it would take to max all those crafting disciplines. True, what a value item.... /s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"TheAgedGnome.7520" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > @"TheAgedGnome.7520" said: > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > @"TheAgedGnome.7520" said: > > > > > > The sale of the [black Lion Instant Level 80 Tickets](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Instant_Level_80_Ticket) and [Waypoint Unlock Boxes](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Waypoint_Unlock_Box) completely nullify and make laughable any argument that sale of mastery points would somehow be a new and unique undermining of "progression". > > > > > > > > > > No they don't, except that many who oppose the sale of mastery points would gladly remove those 2 items as well (okay let me speak for myself here: "I would gladly remove those 2 as well as some of the other "let's skip parts of this game for cash" gem store items). > > > > > > > > These two items have been around for a long time and have not been contentious - there has been no significant protest to remove them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One of both items is basically a scam of new players (the level 80 boost) and the other was discussed shortly after getting added but dismissed because the most annoying part is actually doing the heart quests. > > > > > > Both of those items got their forum threads on release, as did the permanent harvesting tools and other new items. You merely forgot about them. > > > > > > Both of those items do prove my point though: there is demand for more and more implementation of "skip content for cash". Wait until something gets added which you object to, then remember this day now. > > > > One of both items is basically a scam of new players..." LOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No, I won't object to mastery points or similar items - that's not an argument. > > Any player of 6 months or longer knows that to be true. Sorry you might have wasted good money on that item. > > It's designed to rip off players who are clueless as to how fast leveling in this game is and how easy any futher characters are especially once you've crossed the 6 months mark. > > Even the gold you could get instead of the boost would be of more value than the actual boost, and achieve the same result plus a ton of maximum crafting disciplines. What you believe it's purpose of design is quite irrelevant. The fact is that it IS selling the exact thing that many people are using as a reason for why MP's shouldn't be sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesione.9412 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Hesione.9412" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Hesione.9412" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Donutdude.9582" said: > > > > > > No. I am vehemently against this idea. > > > > > > > > > > > > Mastery points are awarded for _mastering_ aspects of the game, from exploration to combat. > > > > > > > > > > C'mon now ... Mastery points are primarily awarded to people who zerg on Champ mobs or can get a portal. You don't have master anything to get them. > > > > > > > > > > Put it this way ... if having to be a MASTER in PVE game aspects is necessary to get MPs to progress in the game ... then that is a HUGE problem that Anet needs to address ASAP because this game was NOT originally meant for the tryhard MMO market ... and CAN'T survive appealing to it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > So it is easy to get mastery points then. Just zerg on champ mobs. > > > > > > > > Masteries do give an advantage, just look at the fractals ones, as an example. Masteries also give you better mount abilities and later mounts in PoF are locked behind masteries of earlier mount abilities. The mount abilities are advantages. > > > > > > > > Mastery points are not for the "try-hard" players. There are a lot more players with high levels of mastery points than there are raiding, for example. I have also seen high-end raiders with few masteries points because they are not interested in the mastery point aspects of the game - apart from those that give an advantage to raiding. > > > > > > > > Masteries are gained by simply playing the game. No-one has to raid, for example, in order to get them. Many of them are given just from completing story chapters. So they are an inherent part of _playing the game_. Asking for them to be purchasable is asking for the ability to not play the game. > > > > > > > > This is where I get stuck. Why do some players want to not play the game? > > > > > > I won't debate your points; there isn't a right or wrong here. It's not unreasonable to ask for alternative approaches to obtain progression-limiting elements. Perhaps they shouldn't be purchasable outright, but it's not out of the question if they were. Even though it's weird that some players do not want to play the game to achieve things ... not understanding that doesn't change the underlying request for alternatives and choice. > > > > I don't see how playing the game is a progression-limiting element to playing the game. > > Playing the game doesn't guarantee success in the game so it's possible to have game designs that block people from progression; this is where alternate paths becomes a very reasonable request for the elements of the game that grant progression. I won't be drawn into an argument about such undefined terms such as pay 2 win or even if it's a problem to have it; it's simply a matter of what the game aims to deliver to the people that play it. This is not even something new to THIS game ... we can already purchase other progression elements. Let's not pretend we can't have progression for sale in this game as an argument to oppose being able to buy MP's. What do you mean by progression? Getting mastery points _is a progression_. It is, quite literally, playing the game. The game aims to deliver to players what it delivers to them now. The game is _not_ marketed as a "if you don't like playing these bits of the game, there's options available for purchase to let you avoid them." It's a MMORPG. It uses MMORPG designs. Being able to purchase mastery points is _literally_ removing game content. (I was sad when they introduced waypoint unlocks in the game. But: if you want to do map completion, you still have to uncover the areas, get the POIs, complete the hero points and quests. It's not like the maps are enormous.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesione.9412 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"TheAgedGnome.7520" said: > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > @"TheAgedGnome.7520" said: > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > @"TheAgedGnome.7520" said: > > > > > > > The sale of the [black Lion Instant Level 80 Tickets](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Instant_Level_80_Ticket) and [Waypoint Unlock Boxes](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Waypoint_Unlock_Box) completely nullify and make laughable any argument that sale of mastery points would somehow be a new and unique undermining of "progression". > > > > > > > > > > > > No they don't, except that many who oppose the sale of mastery points would gladly remove those 2 items as well (okay let me speak for myself here: "I would gladly remove those 2 as well as some of the other "let's skip parts of this game for cash" gem store items). > > > > > > > > > > These two items have been around for a long time and have not been contentious - there has been no significant protest to remove them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One of both items is basically a scam of new players (the level 80 boost) and the other was discussed shortly after getting added but dismissed because the most annoying part is actually doing the heart quests. > > > > > > > > Both of those items got their forum threads on release, as did the permanent harvesting tools and other new items. You merely forgot about them. > > > > > > > > Both of those items do prove my point though: there is demand for more and more implementation of "skip content for cash". Wait until something gets added which you object to, then remember this day now. > > > > > > One of both items is basically a scam of new players..." LOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No, I won't object to mastery points or similar items - that's not an argument. > > > > Any player of 6 months or longer knows that to be true. Sorry you might have wasted good money on that item. > > > > It's designed to rip off players who are clueless as to how fast leveling in this game is and how easy any futher characters are especially once you've crossed the 6 months mark. > > > > Even the gold you could get instead of the boost would be of more value than the actual boost, and achieve the same result plus a ton of maximum crafting disciplines. > > What you believe it's purpose of design is quite irrelevant. The fact is that it IS selling the exact thing that many people are using as a reason for why MP's shouldn't be sold. No. The reason that a bunch of us are vehemently opposed to purchasing mastery points is not affected by other decisions. We've given our explanations in our various replies. You do not appear to be addressing our points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chichimec.9364 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Hmm, just got my underwater skimmer earlier this week. Needed 6 more mastery points to train it and got those in one afternoon spent on PoF maps. Now I'm working on the experience to able to use those mp and that's taking a bit longer. Can I buy experience on the Trading Post? (That was a sarcastic question, folks. Yes I know about exp boosters. :) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig. Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 > @"Chyanne Waters.8719" said: > > @"Vancho.8750" said: > > > @"Chyanne Waters.8719" said: > > > > @"Vancho.8750" said: > > > > > @"Chyanne Waters.8719" said: > > > > > > @"Vancho.8750" said: > > > > > > And top 250 PVP titles and Legenderies and, and, and uhm a little monkey that says meow. > > > > > > Just play the kitten game it is not so hard. > > > > > > > > > > I do play the game but Anet said if you wanna take the time in game you can but if not you can purchase things to avoid that, > > > > So you can play, no one said you needed the mastery opened today there is no rush in the game. Masteries are a game mechanic what is the point of the game if everything can be bought with money. It is also in the name Mastery as in mastering the game, like become better at the game. > > > > > > > > > > I am not talking about purchasing the points and them giving u free exp just the points themselves > > I am also talking about the mastery points, they are given for completing an achievement they are basically reward for finishing a quest. > > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/categories/guild-wars-2-discussion > but some people like myself do not want to do all those things to get them. It does not mean they should remove them for those who do though then you don't deserve/need the mastery. So what again is your problem? do you need all the masteries for hanging around in LA or doing boss trains? No? Next 'put all legendaries in gemstore'. Bad ideas just bubble up everywhere. Besides, there are MUCH more mastery points in game than you need. Don't want to do a certain achievement? Fine, you got lots of alternatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"TheAgedGnome.7520" said: > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > @"TheAgedGnome.7520" said: > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > @"TheAgedGnome.7520" said: > > > > > > > The sale of the [black Lion Instant Level 80 Tickets](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Instant_Level_80_Ticket) and [Waypoint Unlock Boxes](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Waypoint_Unlock_Box) completely nullify and make laughable any argument that sale of mastery points would somehow be a new and unique undermining of "progression". > > > > > > > > > > > > No they don't, except that many who oppose the sale of mastery points would gladly remove those 2 items as well (okay let me speak for myself here: "I would gladly remove those 2 as well as some of the other "let's skip parts of this game for cash" gem store items). > > > > > > > > > > These two items have been around for a long time and have not been contentious - there has been no significant protest to remove them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One of both items is basically a scam of new players (the level 80 boost) and the other was discussed shortly after getting added but dismissed because the most annoying part is actually doing the heart quests. > > > > > > > > Both of those items got their forum threads on release, as did the permanent harvesting tools and other new items. You merely forgot about them. > > > > > > > > Both of those items do prove my point though: there is demand for more and more implementation of "skip content for cash". Wait until something gets added which you object to, then remember this day now. > > > > > > One of both items is basically a scam of new players..." LOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No, I won't object to mastery points or similar items - that's not an argument. > > > > Any player of 6 months or longer knows that to be true. Sorry you might have wasted good money on that item. > > > > It's designed to rip off players who are clueless as to how fast leveling in this game is and how easy any futher characters are especially once you've crossed the 6 months mark. > > > > Even the gold you could get instead of the boost would be of more value than the actual boost, and achieve the same result plus a ton of maximum crafting disciplines. > > What you believe it's purpose of design is quite irrelevant. The fact is that it IS selling the exact thing that many people are using as a reason for why MP's shouldn't be sold. I'm not defying others right to express their desire. I am giving explanations as to why I have my opinion and where it us coming from on this issue. You would profit of giving reasonable arguments yourself in this case. "It will sell" is an argument, but I would hope you could provide more since there are a lot of things which would surely sell yet be a detriment to the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > @"TheAgedGnome.7520" said: > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > @"TheAgedGnome.7520" said: > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > @"TheAgedGnome.7520" said: > > > > > > > > The sale of the [black Lion Instant Level 80 Tickets](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Instant_Level_80_Ticket) and [Waypoint Unlock Boxes](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Waypoint_Unlock_Box) completely nullify and make laughable any argument that sale of mastery points would somehow be a new and unique undermining of "progression". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No they don't, except that many who oppose the sale of mastery points would gladly remove those 2 items as well (okay let me speak for myself here: "I would gladly remove those 2 as well as some of the other "let's skip parts of this game for cash" gem store items). > > > > > > > > > > > > These two items have been around for a long time and have not been contentious - there has been no significant protest to remove them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One of both items is basically a scam of new players (the level 80 boost) and the other was discussed shortly after getting added but dismissed because the most annoying part is actually doing the heart quests. > > > > > > > > > > Both of those items got their forum threads on release, as did the permanent harvesting tools and other new items. You merely forgot about them. > > > > > > > > > > Both of those items do prove my point though: there is demand for more and more implementation of "skip content for cash". Wait until something gets added which you object to, then remember this day now. > > > > > > > > One of both items is basically a scam of new players..." LOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No, I won't object to mastery points or similar items - that's not an argument. > > > > > > Any player of 6 months or longer knows that to be true. Sorry you might have wasted good money on that item. > > > > > > It's designed to rip off players who are clueless as to how fast leveling in this game is and how easy any futher characters are especially once you've crossed the 6 months mark. > > > > > > Even the gold you could get instead of the boost would be of more value than the actual boost, and achieve the same result plus a ton of maximum crafting disciplines. > > > > What you believe it's purpose of design is quite irrelevant. The fact is that it IS selling the exact thing that many people are using as a reason for why MP's shouldn't be sold. > > You would profit of giving reasonable arguments yourself in this case. "It will sell" is an argument, but I would hope you could provide more since there are a lot of things which would surely sell yet be a detriment to the game. I already have ... the "P2W" point is actually in FAVOUR of making MP's for sale due to the existence of elements that are already for sale that aid in progression, especially as those already-for-sale elements are significantly easier to achieve than obtaining the necessary MP's to progress. I understand the offensive nature of buying your way to the end ... but that isn't relevant in a game that already supports selling progression elements. Emotionally based arguments are not compelling. I'm not disputing the other reasons for NOT selling them ... but I am disputing the _single_ one that Anet shouldn't sell progression. Clearly, the business case to do so is MORE compelling than the offense it causes some players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > @"TheAgedGnome.7520" said: > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > @"TheAgedGnome.7520" said: > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > @"TheAgedGnome.7520" said: > > > > > > > > > The sale of the [black Lion Instant Level 80 Tickets](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Instant_Level_80_Ticket) and [Waypoint Unlock Boxes](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Waypoint_Unlock_Box) completely nullify and make laughable any argument that sale of mastery points would somehow be a new and unique undermining of "progression". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No they don't, except that many who oppose the sale of mastery points would gladly remove those 2 items as well (okay let me speak for myself here: "I would gladly remove those 2 as well as some of the other "let's skip parts of this game for cash" gem store items). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > These two items have been around for a long time and have not been contentious - there has been no significant protest to remove them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One of both items is basically a scam of new players (the level 80 boost) and the other was discussed shortly after getting added but dismissed because the most annoying part is actually doing the heart quests. > > > > > > > > > > > > Both of those items got their forum threads on release, as did the permanent harvesting tools and other new items. You merely forgot about them. > > > > > > > > > > > > Both of those items do prove my point though: there is demand for more and more implementation of "skip content for cash". Wait until something gets added which you object to, then remember this day now. > > > > > > > > > > One of both items is basically a scam of new players..." LOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No, I won't object to mastery points or similar items - that's not an argument. > > > > > > > > Any player of 6 months or longer knows that to be true. Sorry you might have wasted good money on that item. > > > > > > > > It's designed to rip off players who are clueless as to how fast leveling in this game is and how easy any futher characters are especially once you've crossed the 6 months mark. > > > > > > > > Even the gold you could get instead of the boost would be of more value than the actual boost, and achieve the same result plus a ton of maximum crafting disciplines. > > > > > > What you believe it's purpose of design is quite irrelevant. The fact is that it IS selling the exact thing that many people are using as a reason for why MP's shouldn't be sold. > > > > You would profit of giving reasonable arguments yourself in this case. "It will sell" is an argument, but I would hope you could provide more since there are a lot of things which would surely sell yet be a detriment to the game. > > I already have ... the "P2W" point is actually in FAVOUR of making MP's for sale due to the existence of elements that are already for sale that aid in progression, especially as those already-for-sale elements are significantly easier to achieve than obtaining the necessary MP's to progress. > and I already replied to you that the P2W argument was never one I agreed with. I'd hope you'd be able to actually argue some of the reasonable arguments instead of harping on the same nonsense some people like to claim to. The only issue here in relation to P2W would be of interpretation and how it is perceived, no matter if applicable or not. While I agree that offering more and more game play elements in the shop might make outsiders probable to interpret this as P2W, I would not actually call them P2W, though the perception alone would be damaging in this case. > @"Obtena.7952" said: > I understand the offensive nature of buying your way to the end ... but that isn't relevant in a game that already supports selling progression elements. Emotionally based arguments are not compelling in this case. If you understand the offensive nature, you might also grasp the other effects such system have which I mentioned: - disconnect of player and game (which would increase with more of such products.) - the slippery slope in game design following such additions in content design - the fact that taking 1 step down a road is not the same as taking multiple steps - something making the studio money is not always a net benefit to the game. See templates None of which are in any way affected by any argument made so far. So I'll stick to my opinion and arguing against such an implementation. Not that I believe the developers would offer such a feature in the first place, and if they did, I'd be far more concerned with what it would mean for the game over the actual implementation, as I already mentioned (aka short term cash grab and cancellation). EDIT: > @"Obtena.7952" said: > I'm not disputing the other reasons for NOT selling them ... but I am disputing the _single_ one that Anet shouldn't sell progression. Clearly, the business case to do so is MORE compelling than the offense it causes some players. Sorry but that is the biggest nonsense in this thread so far. Intelligent business is not based on only what one can make revenue on short term, especially in something which might affect in huge part the perception of the game both to existing players as well as potential new players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > Sorry but that is the biggest nonsense in this thread so far. Intelligent business is not based on only what one can make revenue on short term, especially in something which might affect in huge part the perception of the game both to existing players as well as potential new players. Well, it's not and I'm not saying that Anet only considered the business aspect when they decided to sell progression ... but whatever all those factors were they considered ... clearly the total of all those factor considerations led to Anet deciding they would do it. I mean, you are saying you provided other reasons for why Anet shouldn't sell MPs ...but how do those reasons relate to already-being-sold progression elements? I suspect not much different right? Yet Anet did it ... but they shouldn't for MP's? Sounds to me there is something missing in any conclusion that results in opposing the idea. Frankly, if selling progression keeps players interested in the game and not quitting ... what's the problem? You would rather they just leave because of hitting a wall because of of some hangup people have about 'P2W' or whatever other reason? I mean, if I play a character I boosted to 80 or leveled legit ... how does that affect you? Why would you care? How would you know? It's the same with MP's. It's COMPLETELY transparent to players what someone else purchases for progression element. The ACTUAL impact to all of us it ... the game makes money AND players stick around. That sounds GOOD to me ... I certainly want this game to prosper. I think people are starting to forget why this game was successful when it was released ... and it wasn't because players encountered progression barriers all over the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > Sorry but that is the biggest nonsense in this thread so far. Intelligent business is not based on only what one can make revenue on short term, especially in something which might affect in huge part the perception of the game both to existing players as well as potential new players. > > Well, it's not and I'm not saying that Anet only considered the business aspect when they decided to sell progression ... but whatever all those factors were they considered ... clearly the total of all those factor considerations led to Anet deciding they would do it. I mean, you are saying you provided other reasons for why Anet shouldn't sell MPs ...but how do those reasons relate to already-being-sold progression elements? I suspect not much different right? Yet Anet did it ... but they shouldn't for MP's? Sounds to me there is something missing in any conclusion that results in opposing the idea. > > Frankly, if selling progression keeps players interested in the game and not quitting ... what's the problem? You would rather they just leave because of hitting a wall because of of some hangup people have about 'P2W' or whatever other reason? I mean, if I play a character I boosted to 80 or leveled legit ... how does that affect you? Why would you care? How would you know? It's the same with MP's. It's COMPLETELY transparent to players what someone else purchases for progression element. The ACTUAL impact to all of us it ... the game makes money AND players stick around. That sounds GOOD to me ... I certainly want this game to prosper. > > I think people are starting to forget why this game was successful when it was released ... and it wasn't because players encountered progression barriers all over the place. Or player buy progression see no reason to play and quit so good for investor pocket bad for players. Dev make it even harder to get stuff so people buy it for cash good for investor pocket bad for players. Too many players leave bad for devs, investor shrugh and invest in another game bad for players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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