The main changes needed to balance rev

[Ovark.2514]

Phase Traversal requires LoS and only grants the quickness and unblockable on strike

Song of the Mists no longer deals damage

[Virdo.1540]

Renegade would play with swords then. Also theres no need to nerf shiro anymore. Simply reduce the might of renegade

And herald isnt in a good state atm to call for nerfs.

[Raiden The Beast.3016]

> @"Virdo.1540" said:

> Renegade would play with swords then. Also theres no need to nerf shiro anymore. Simply reduce the might of renegade

> And herald isnt in a good state atm to call for nerfs.

 

Herald won Mat, Herald played in Numb, in Worms, PG ... look into top 20 count heralds ...

[Megametzler.5729]

> @"Ovark.2514" said:

> Phase Traversal requires LoS and only grants the quickness and unblockable on strike

> Song of the Mists no longer deals damage

 

SotM barely does any damage.

 

I think there is significantly more needed. :wink:

[Bazsi.2734]

> @"Ovark.2514" said:

> Phase Traversal requires LoS and only grants the quickness and unblockable on strike

> Song of the Mists no longer deals damage

 

Oh yes that overkill damage on Song of the Mists... how would the sevenshot combo even work with that gone? I mean swapping to Shiro/Jalis grants a whopping 27 damage, while swapping to glint/kalla does 80. Did you even read what the skills do before complaining?

There are several aspects of the meta renegade that are seriously overtuned but your suggestions touch on none of them.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

Herald's issues can't be solved without a full revamp on a number of skills and traits. The only ones defending the spec at this point are the abusers; best profession in PvP, WvW, great in PvE ... It's amazing how Anet refuses to tone this cluster-kitten down.

[ollbirtan.2915]

Please nerf teef! Thank you!

[Sobx.1758]

> @"Virdo.1540" said:

> Renegade would play with swords then. Also theres no need to nerf shiro anymore. Simply reduce the might of renegade

> And herald isnt in a good state atm to call for nerfs.

 

...how is herald not good atm? :D

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:

> Herald's issues can't be solved without a full revamp on a number of skills and traits. The only ones defending the spec at this point are the abusers; best profession in PvP, WvW, great in PvE ... It's amazing how Anet refuses to tone this cluster-kitten down.

 

its pay to play class, so its a business decision to keep it OP in every mode.

similar how most core specs suck and are carried by especs

[Virdo.1540]

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > @"Virdo.1540" said:

> > Renegade would play with swords then. Also theres no need to nerf shiro anymore. Simply reduce the might of renegade

> > And herald isnt in a good state atm to call for nerfs.

>

> ...how is herald not good atm? :D

 

Energy costs too high, might too low, needs to use dmg traitlines for that ,which already got nerfed extremely, extremely easy to counter etc

 

btw have you every placed ur herald into the pvp lobby and just activated the protection facet?

[Megametzler.5729]

> @"Virdo.1540" said:

> > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > @"Virdo.1540" said:

> > > Renegade would play with swords then. Also theres no need to nerf shiro anymore. Simply reduce the might of renegade

> > > And herald isnt in a good state atm to call for nerfs.

> >

> > ...how is herald not good atm? :D

>

> Energy costs too high, might too low, needs to use dmg traitlines for that ,which already got nerfed extremely, extremely easy to counter etc

>

> btw have you every placed ur herald into the pvp lobby and just activated the protection facet?

 

Herald has incredibly low energy cost. You don't have to keept the Facet activated, you usually use them immediately. They linger for 6 seconds anyways.

 

There are a lot of Heralds in Top100 games.

[Sobx.1758]

> @"Virdo.1540" said:

> > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > @"Virdo.1540" said:

> > > Renegade would play with swords then. Also theres no need to nerf shiro anymore. Simply reduce the might of renegade

> > > And herald isnt in a good state atm to call for nerfs.

> >

> > ...how is herald not good atm? :D

>

> Energy costs too high, might too low, needs to use dmg traitlines for that ,which already got nerfed extremely, extremely easy to counter etc

>

> btw have you every placed ur herald into the pvp lobby and just activated the protection facet?

 

If your gamplay consists of "just activating facets" and keeping them on then what are we even talking about here?

And if it doesn't, then you know you're wrong and just purposfully pick pretty specific, irrelevant situation to somehow show you're underpowered while you're not.

[Kuma.1503]

Why do people use the word "balance" when they really mean "nerf"?

 

Rev needs more than a few shaves here and there. The main thing the class needs is a rework of their utility skills. They do way too much, and this has forced ANet to compensate by bloating energy costs. ANet should remove some functionality from their utilities in exchange for lowered costs.

 

[Shao.7236]

Meaningless changes. Once both Herald builds lose Rune of Resistance, they'll stop being a favorable pick for dying so easily under constant pressure. The Feb changes had been already in effect and showed in practice because we hadn't seem them for a while until the Rune was brought to light.

 

Edit: Btw, I don't think any teleports with target requirements need LoS, y'all can stop with that bias.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Ovark.2514" said:

> _Phase Traversal_ requires LoS and only grants the quickness and unblockable on strike

 

Reasonable.

 

> _Song of the Mists_ no longer deals damage

 

I don't think it's needed.

[Virdo.1540]

> @"Megametzler.5729"

> @"Sobx.1758"

 

they linger if you have drac. echo chosen. And still, my point was just how annoying the 5pip elite facet has become.

 

And "low energy costs" doesnt mean you play with glint only. There you dont really have much options to make use of ur energy.

 

 

[Megametzler.5729]

> @"Virdo.1540" said:

> > @"Megametzler.5729"

> > @"Sobx.1758"

>

> they linger if you have drac. echo chosen. And still, my point was just how annoying the 5pip elite facet has become.

>

> And "low energy costs" doesnt mean you play with glint only. There you dont really have much options to make use of ur energy.

>

>

 

Both the other Grandmaster traits are literally never used on power Herald... :tongue:

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"Shao.7236" said:

> Meaningless changes. Once both Herald builds lose Rune of Resistance, they'll stop being a favorable pick for dying so easily under constant pressure. The Feb changes had been already in effect and showed in practice because we hadn't seem them for a while until the Rune was brought to light.

>

> Edit: Btw, I don't think any teleports with target requirements need LoS, y'all can stop with that bias.

 

I hope you are not suggesting the removal of Rune of Resistance from the game, given the state of condi in WvW, those runes have become borderline vital. I know only few people here keep track of the market so allow me to explain : the price of most condition based runes has tripled as of recently...even Rune of the Undead has jumped in price by 1000%..yes 1000% , the state of condition damage is that crazy...no nerfs since 2015

[CutesySylveon.8290]

> @"Ovark.2514" said:

> Phase Traversal requires LoS and only grants the quickness and unblockable on strike

> Song of the Mists no longer deals damage

 

If you want PT to need LoS, then Steal/Swipe, Infiltrators Signet, Infiltrates Strike, Judge's Intervention, Symbol of Blades, and every single other targeted port in the game needs to follow the same rules.

 

If not, then stop singling out rev ports like they're some exclusive issue.

[Sobx.1758]

> @"Virdo.1540" said:

> > @"Megametzler.5729"

> > @"Sobx.1758"

>

> they linger if you have drac. echo chosen. And still, my point was just how annoying the 5pip elite facet has become.

>

> And "low energy costs" doesnt mean you play with glint only. There you dont really have much options to make use of ur energy.

 

And when was the last time you didn't use it in competitive? :D

Even if you weren't runnign it (but you are), it's not much of an issue, those skills are impactful enough to still just double tap them even without the trait (that you're using anyways). Again, what are you even trying to argue here with your nonexistent scenarios?

 

I'm not even trying to push for nerfs or w/e, but what you write is just -to put it lightly- intentionally misleading, so maybe stop avoiding facts.

[Shao.7236]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"Shao.7236" said:

> > Meaningless changes. Once both Herald builds lose Rune of Resistance, they'll stop being a favorable pick for dying so easily under constant pressure. The Feb changes had been already in effect and showed in practice because we hadn't seem them for a while until the Rune was brought to light.

> >

> > Edit: Btw, I don't think any teleports with target requirements need LoS, y'all can stop with that bias.

>

> I hope you are not suggesting the removal of Rune of Resistance from the game, given the state of condi in WvW, those runes have become borderline vital. I know only few people here keep track of the market so allow me to explain : the price of most condition based runes has tripled as of recently...even Rune of the Undead has jumped in price by 1000%..yes 1000% , the state of condition damage is that crazy...no nerfs since 2015

 

Nah, PvP suggestions. Also not a removal but rather increase of ICD to the Rune is necessary. It's pretty much carrying anything that can use it's effect often in PvP right now, mostly Herald builds as also shown to be the favored pick on metabattle, not a shocker tho.

 

There was quite a lot of complaining of Herald being underpowered before it got popular.

[Buran.3796]

> @"Shao.7236" said:

 

> Nah, PvP suggestions. Also not a removal but rather increase of ICD to the Rune is necessary. It's pretty much carrying anything that can use it's effect often in PvP right now, mostly Herald builds as also shown to be the favored pick on metabattle, not a shocker tho.

>

> There was quite a lot of complaining of Herald being underpowered before it got popular.

 

Do you realize that Resistance runes are used only due Durability runes were deleted from PvP, so players replaced it with the runes of the Leadership, only to see them nerfed to nothingness (lol, 10% boon duration, who wants to run that crap?!) and Resistance are just picked because most of runes in PvP do nothing? And by the way, they should also nerf the Melandru and Dolyak runes, which are the next ones which fills the "not entirely useless" box? Also, remove the Speed runes, because lately have been used a lot!

 

Won't change anything: gear selection at PvP is currently pretty mediocre: if a player is having problems killing a (put your hated nemesis here) class is due there's no damage, so staying alive is very, very easy at the moment. They will keep being unable to kill those revs. And I'm talking about running berserker amulets, no one wants to use crusader (lol, -200 stat points because "reasons").

[Shao.7236]

> @"Buran.3796" said:

> > @"Shao.7236" said:

>

> > Nah, PvP suggestions. Also not a removal but rather increase of ICD to the Rune is necessary. It's pretty much carrying anything that can use it's effect often in PvP right now, mostly Herald builds as also shown to be the favored pick on metabattle, not a shocker tho.

> >

> > There was quite a lot of complaining of Herald being underpowered before it got popular.

>

> Do you realize that Resistance runes are used only due Durability runes were deleted from PvP, so players replaced it with the runes of the Leadership, only to see them nerfed to nothingness (lol, 10% boon duration, who wants to run that kitten?!) and Resistance are just picked because most of runes in PvP do nothing? And by the way, they should also nerf the Melandru and Dolyak runes, which are the next ones which fills the "not entirely useless" box? Also, remove the Speed runes, because lately have been used a lot!

>

> Won't change anything: gear selection at PvP is currently pretty mediocre: if a player is having problems killing a (put your hated nemesis here) class is due there's no damage, so staying alive is very, very easy at the moment. They will keep being unable to kill those revs. And I'm talking about running berserker amulets, no one wants to use crusader (lol, -200 stat points because "reasons").

 

Nah Resistance is used anytime the ICD can be abused.

 

Nerfed into uselesness is a big statement when being able to convert 3 conditions from 5 other players at once on your team. If players cared for the clear exclusively after the nerf, they'd be using Lyssa which hasn't been touched in any significant way yet.

 

2 conditions for an entire team is still good considering most runes that do have team effects are always limited to one. Players are greedy.

 

Finally boon duration has been irrelevant for a while and good reason, the spam and permanent uptime was extremely toxic. Especially when most professions can't even remove boons.

 

Speed runes values are whacky and stupid for how easily accessible swiftness is and nothing can deal with it outside two niche scenarios or using the runes themselves. Should be 40% at max.

 

It's like people expect runes to be super awesome and strong whereas they are meant to be a small kicker that helps the build working better but shouldn't be unplayable without.

 

Rune of Resistance in PvP is pretty broken because it gives too much for little within certain professions thus why in most cases any runes that have strong effects have an average of 45 seconds CD, which is fair.

 

All utility in the game for pvp don't have this much Resistance on a cooldown this low, even Core Rev gets less playing offensively while defensively is as good as a sitting duck if you try to stack because no energy to fight back, while it's 3 seconds on 20 cd, you give up on other opportunities, the bonus is not exclusive to work with the elites itself.

 

The class actually depends on it to deal damage where as most simply don't and just get stronger from it. Could say that applies to Herald as well because the compromise of F2 has to be made but you can regardless get as much with the Rune. It's ridiculous.

[Buran.3796]

> @"Shao.7236" said:

 

> Nerfed into uselesness is a big statement when being able to convert 3 conditions from 5 other players at once on your team. If players cared for the clear exclusively after the nerf, they'd be using Lyssa which hasn't been touched in any significant way yet.

 

Lyssa provides precission. When I play a power Rev, I don't need precission. When I play a condition Rev, I don't care about precission (traits which procced condis faded long time ago for this class). Also: removing 3 condis each 45 seconds... Staff's Renewing Weave doubles that amount in 45 seconds (2x3), Jali's Shooting Stone removes 5 each 30 s, traited shield can clean 5 in 45s, and you have more control over when you use those skills than over the use of the elites. Lyssa is just a waste, won't be ever used by this class.

 

But go ahead, ANet, delete the Resitance rune. As I said won't change anything: you're at best a season or two behind the meta. Reducing the amount of options won't change how broken the game is because the main reason behind the unbalances is the lack of consistent support due patches arrives once in 4+ months so player have 8+ months to exploit "weakness".

[Shao.7236]

> @"Buran.3796" said:

> > @"Shao.7236" said:

>

> > Nerfed into uselesness is a big statement when being able to convert 3 conditions from 5 other players at once on your team. If players cared for the clear exclusively after the nerf, they'd be using Lyssa which hasn't been touched in any significant way yet.

>

> Lyssa provides precission. When I play a power Rev, I don't need precission. When I play a condition Rev, I don't care about precission (traits which procced condis faded long time ago for this class). Also: removing 3 condis each 45 seconds... Staff's Renewing Weave doubles that amount in 45 seconds (2x3), Jali's Shooting Stone removes 5 each 30 s, traited shield can clean 5 in 45s, and you have more control over when you use those skills than over the use of the elites. Lyssa is just a waste, won't be ever used by this class.

>

> But go ahead, ANet, delete the Resitance rune. As I said won't change anything: you're at best a season or two behind the meta. Reducing the amount of options won't change how broken the game is because the main reason behind the unbalances is the lack of consistent support due patches arrives once in 4+ months so player have 8+ months to exploit "weakness".

 

While everyone was drooling on Leadership at the time which I mean in a literal sense because everything in the meta had used it, I was using Lyssa with the not horribly nerfed Roiling Mists to achieve an exact 100% critical hit chance, the condition duration flow with all the vulnerability although it's not like it's significant numbers since Feb and even if Leadership was still the same as today, people would use it over Lyssa exclusively because the effect is stronger period, nobody cared for the stats, neither have you.

 

To this day I would rather use Melandru than Resistance because it doesn't stop me from playing my profession to the fullest, you could arguably say it doesn't matter but it highlights the problem with having 20 seconds cooldown on it, if it doesn't matter then it's too easy and that's the problem. For me it already matters that I am relying and limiting myself to this, it's quite easy to be under pressure as Herald with Rune of Resistance then mash everything to Infuse Light the moment the effects wear off while you've just had the chance to freely roll your entire kit someone, which can be done anytime CD's wear off, I'm fairly certain that's also the reason why people think Herald Power is overwhelmingly strong which it isn't, that rune specifically allows this kind of behavior on the profession.

 

When I play Condition Revenant, I don't care for a overbloated crutch that benefits me only if I don't want to use all my utilities the way it's meant to be like I said, it destroys my killing potential while making me even more of a liable target to moan about for being too bunky.

 

People can stop themselves from using elites on Herald because it's a different playstyle with different ways to apply further more conditions, that should be enough for the class, 4 seconds of Resistance every 20 seconds on top of that on demand is carrying an already strong specialization that has the "most" broken transfer skill in the game right this moment. (600 Radius, Unblockable and Removes conditions even if it fails to hit anything, it's definitely not like Permeating High Risk Medium Reward.)

 

When I play Herald Condition, I'm not in search of making myself immortal by once again cutting my damage potential with reduced incoming duration on top of not using my elites until I really need them because on Revenant elites are meant to be used often. I use Tempest because I'll not only find myself to be CC'd often but I also want more Damage even if the percentages are insignificant, being able to heal for 1.6k every CC on Sage with typically added Resistance that I fairly spent my energy on is much more balanced and doesn't stop my profession from doing what it's meant to.

 

You could also argue that if I say it's bad, why even nerf it accordingly? I say it's bad in a sense that not only it makes the user horribly lazy and ruins actual fun factors of the profession but it also is not balanced given all the other choices anyway and it shows with how favored it is. That thing is pretty much like having Healing Signet on demand without the risk of losing anything at all with that cooldown, the trade offs are not even or worst, they are incredibly better.

 

You should also pay attention a tad more, deleting the rune is NOT what I am asking for, I am asking for adjusting values and I'm not the only person doing so.