Unhindered Combatant change

[Valandor.9506]

Tried to fight against current scourge, spellbreaker, ... meta after this change... nope, gonna delete the thief and gonna yolo rofl stomp on scourge.

[Galandil.9641]

So they did it again.

 

Two and a half years ago:

- This is the new Elite, Daredevil, it's basically an Acro 2.0.

- But Acro 1.0 is a good traitline.

- No problem, we'll nerf it to the ground before release of DD so they'll have a reason to use the new line.

 

Today:

- This is the new Elite, Deadeye, it's a pretty good idea, no need to nerf anything, players will love it!

**Tumbleweeds rolling on dead crickets**

- Ok, let's nerf the Daredevil so the ungrateful bastards will play the Deadeye.

[Basharic.1654]

> @Turk.5460 said:

> This isn't even a nerf that is heavy-handed. Heavy-handed implies that a nerf was warranted in the first place. The reason Daredevils are slippery, is because you can sneeze on them and they die. Without active defenses like dodging, we're generally toast pretty quick. Will this kill power S/D DD for me? No, I'll swap to BD (since *that* grandmaster trait won't negatively affect me) and Don't Stop.

>

> **So the jist of it is I'm gaining a 10% outgoing damage increase and a potential extra attack at the cost of 10% incoming damage reduction, regeneration, and initiative gain on evading attacks.** Nothing to lose sleep over, but it still hurts when UC was by no means overperforming *in combat*.

>

> So this nerf was because...they don't want DD's who traited UC to be able to disengage as easily?

 

Pretty much said everything I was thinking. Biggest change for me is I preferred DA over Acro unless the condis were especially virulent. Now I no longer have that option. Bad change is very ill considered.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

It’s funny no other class is actively punished for using Traits/Weapons. Want to have ranged option get locked to being almost completely stationary(still bugged Range other classes with “1500” shoot further), want Mobility and clear soft cc on Dodge lose Endurance regen for 4 secs.

 

Getting locked out of basic gameplay mechanics for certain selections when other classes don’t.

[Turk.5460]

This is the first time that a Boon on yourself is rendered useless. Does Fury/Stone Heart compare to this? Ehh, no, considering thats one profession *if they trait that*. And this UC interaction benefits all opponent professions and all builds.

[AegisRunestone.8672]

> @"Governor Toothpaste.1582" said:

> > @AegisRunestone.8672 said:

> > It seems like thieves everywhere are disappointed or upset. Here on the forums, and even on reddit. I dunno about the ones who don't post and are just in-game, but this is a painful nerf. I don't even play PvP and WvW, and I'd like the change to be reversed. The last time I saw such an outrage when was Steal was changed so you could only use it if you had a target.

> >

> > A patch came out within hours IIRC, or the next day, changing Steal back to use on demand, no target needed.

>

> I really hope this change is reversed. Feels like anet is saying 'don't play this way'.

 

I hope so, too. I like my Dash.

[Fade.5904]

Can we have feline grace back now please so i can dump DD?

all the endurance nerfs from the last 2 balance patches have basically made the entire advertised mechanic of the 'elite' spec worthless

[NuhDah.9812]

What is actually interesting is how the devs find all sort of new and unspoken of mechanics to nerf thief (like who's ever heard about cooldown on thief weapon attacks? you haven't, right, so let's bring them to the table by adding some to the stealth attacks... or where the heck in this game you have endurance regen stopping from dodging or any other action you take), right? They get so creative when it comes to fuck up thieves, but aren't able to find simple solutions for broken mechanics for years.

[marsamo.8061]

Taking away a dodge for removing movement conditions is unacceptable. This isn't even a trade-off decision, it's never a favourable trade.

Add in that a thief has no active defenses/passive defense traits and is reliant upon dodge....lol. Game over DD.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

I fell in love with deadeye when I got my hands on it, and it really made me open my eyes to see how busted DD is.

 

But JESUS FUCK WHY!? This nerf turned a god damn trait into a massive liability where you effectively shoot yourself in the foot without your own damn consent!

[Siltherium.3492]

I can visualize the Reaper climbling up from his tomb and pushing the Daredevil inside.

[Crinn.7864]

> @Doggie.3184 said:

> They always have to do at least one random nerf on something no one has ever complained or talked about every balance update

 

Uh, Unhindered combant is easily the second most QQ'ed about thing on Daredvil behind Pulmonary Impact. UC made it literally impossible for non-roamer classes to even engage a thief let alone kill one.

 

If the regen nerf hurts that much then just put in bound.

[Atlaworks.4937]

> @Crinn.7864 said:

> > @Doggie.3184 said:

> > They always have to do at least one random nerf on something no one has ever complained or talked about every balance update

>

> Uh, Unhindered combant is easily the second most QQ'ed about thing on Daredvil behind Pulmonary Impact. UC made it literally impossible for non-roamer classes to even engage a thief let alone kill one.

>

> If the regen nerf hurts that much then just put in bound.

 

Surprise surprise, Crinn is on board with daredevil nerfs.

 

If they keep taking thief's active mitigation, by nerfing regens and now effectively neutering UC, then we need to be given more passive mitigation to make up for it. We're tied for lowest base HP, and have the heaviest amount of active mitigation on the game, because we have the least passive mitigation- thieves are even squishier than elementalists are, so taking the mitigation they DO have away without anything in return just means they die from a stiff breeze even faster. What if using a shatter skill on Mesmers meant you can't gain clones or illusions for 4 seconds? Because that's the rough equivalent, since Daredevil is the dodge spec. This happened back at the beginning of GW2 with thieves and stealth nerfs- since players complained about stealth and how to combat it, it got nerfed, and daredevil was meta because we needed the dodges, since they took away the bite of our stealth mitigation. Now our dodge mitigation is taken away, too- and we're left with the lowest HP, less mitigation options than any other classes, and even our mobility tanked, the one thing we had left.

 

What's left for thieves at this point?

[Despond.2174]

Out of all the changes this one made me the saddest. All the pros know dd thief's only role, and in fact their only real role is that of a roamer, and +1er. They can't fight on objective or nodes again nearly any meta duelists specialist, they aren't top tier team fighters, and hence this talent helped with their disengaging to fulfill their only real role. They are meant to spike, and get out, team stealth, decap, make plays, THEY NEED to have strong disengage abilities.

It's sad when you see people complaining about a spec that actually has a high skill cap to play well because they faced some anecdotal match-ups. But what can you do? When you take something so crucial away and compensate it with nothing then you just force people to go elsewhere, or maybe they want people to go to DE, who know's but my favorite pvp spec outside of chrono has received a massive unneeded blow imo.

[babazhook.6805]

If they just HAD to change this , the 4 seconds is far too long. Assuming a person specs ACRO and DD for the endurance gain and extra dodges. On using a dodge to clear one of those conditions fully 80 percent of the uptime on felines grace (vigor) is lost. I think this unreasonable. if there has to be THIS fix I suggest that the loss of endurance regen happen for 2 seconds. This is a still a 40 percent loss to peak endurance gain.

 

Those not speccing Acro will still have penalty enough that they will have to more carefully use those dodges.

 

This does not mean i think this change warranted but if the course is set then I suggest 2 seconds.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

Anyone who thinks dash wasn't op or out performing other traits OR needed a nerf then lol.

 

This was the most broken trait ever, a lot of thives said this from hot beta. How is it justified that a thief can dodge with 450 range, remove all snare conditions, 10 seconds of swiftness and on top of that -10 dmg/condi dmg inc, not to mention moving at super speed too while dashing... that being said this was very uncalled for, you may as well play daredevil and not even equip the grandmaster or not use daredevil at all. Bound won't cut the spvp role and there is nothing in acrobatics that offer dagger theif at all. They could of at least reduced the dash range back to normal dodge distance and or, remove the -10 dmg but to slap on a 4 seconds "exhaustion" (lol) is a joke.

[Cynz.9437]

In short, "dear thieves, reroll plz. We want you to join the army of mindless condi/aoe spam".

 

I wouldn't mind the nerf tbh if they hit other classes as hard and addressed issue with trillion aoe/condi spam in current game. But they didn't. For me it is straight out another middle finger (backstab/AA nerf anyone?) from developer team. Nobody asked for it, not even other classes.

 

You want us to quit so badly? Whatever, i personally log in like one time per week now, if at all. The game turned really into garbage by class balance team. I honestly don't understand how such blatant class discrimination even allowed (and it doesn't affect just thieves).

 

Thief is only class in game that has active defense, thief is only class that gets locked out of AA by own.... spells, thief is only class that gets locked out of endurance by T3 trait in the spec that is all about mobility... because thief used mobility. /facepalm x1000000 The hate must be real.

[Mahkno.7593]

awful nerf. needs reverted.

[Titan.3472]

I see no logic why my OWN trait should buff my ennemy cripple effect when they should have buff cripple effect for all users and not change thief trait. Making every cripple debuff endurance by 100% during the time of the cripple would have been more clever than sabotaging a "grandmasterlulz" trait to oblivion. xD

[Cynz.9437]

> @Titan.3472 said:

> I see no logic why my OWN trait should buff my ennemy cripple effect when they should have buff cripple effect for all users and not change thief trait. Making every cripple debuff endurance by 100% during the time of the cripple would have been more clever than sabotaging a "grandmasterlulz" trait to oblivion. xD

 

Because they want to remove thief from competitive environment, not indirectly nerfing other classes.

[Despond.2174]

I am still in shock. A spec with a high skill cap and a unique roaming role, large risk vs reward, that needed it's disengage abilities because there's much better teamfighters and 1vs1s out there, and this happens. d/p DD is our only high tier option, it didn't needed to be touched at all sadly.

[bluri.2653]

I don't feel it whatsoever if you play it as a +1 role anyway so feels like a lot of you are overreacting about it, sure i understand it sucks to get nerfed but idk it could have been worse

[Skada.1362]

> @bluri.2653 said:

> I don't feel it whatsoever if you play it as a +1 role anyway so feels like a lot of you are overreacting about it, sure i understand it sucks to get nerfed but idk it could have been worse

 

It might still work well for you and for +1 in PVP and that's great but as a WvW roamer I can really feel the nerfs.

[Vertep.2498]

so now every pvp player need to get info thief is no more for cap/decap close/far while fast help at mid because of this nerf while many ther classes have great if not better mobility now like spellbreaker got

 

now rerol on DE and on every amtch start tell on group: fuck off Im not going to close/far, not mobile, going camp mid, now its your work for close/far, not mine

xD

 

at all is it then end of meta: thief job is to cap, decap close and farm while helping killing single targets? now thief can do only 1 thing from this and killing from range will be more efficient than running even on close when other classes get additional high mobility with PoF specs

[Phosphorite.6192]

Was this change even implemented properly? Bc when I dodge with UC I still regenerate endurance afterward. I don't feel any difference.