Unhindered Combatant change

[Neurion.4086]

For what it's worth, they have also removed daggers from Impaling Lotus. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Impaling_Lotus

Last time I used it in WvW worked as it is described. Not anymore.

Please tell me it is a bug...

[babazhook.6805]

> @Skada.1362 said:

> > @Elxdark.9702 said:

> > > @Mahkno.7593 said:

> > > > @ZhouX.8742 said:

> > > > Sindrener seems to be doing fine , not sure... I think it depends if you're good or not. Not justifying the nerf, just saying from a few people in top tier I've seen playing it, it's not massive nerf. Similar play style just not as spammy.

> > >

> > > if Sindrener's skill sets the bar for balance then… you've missed the point.

> >

> > It's not only just Sindrener, it's every good/decent thief.

> >

> > At least in pvp you shouldn't have any problem with this change unless you're bad so it seems a lot of people are realising they were being carried by a single dodge, juicy nerf.

>

> I too feel it's fine in PVP, so I agree with Sin and every good/decent thief about that. However it really hits WvW roamers, especially the ones using s/d builds with acro. This change killed alot of build diversity.

 

I am not sure how this kills build diversity with s/d builds. My own findings were that s/d Core builds using Acro just worked better for me then using Daredevil.

 

Given there a swiftness add on sword two and "don't stop" removed an imaipring condition everytime swiftness applied , S/D acro did not have to rely on burning endurance to remove those conditions. Throw in the "80 percent less duration" of said conditions and those extra dodges out of the daredevil line were not needed to remain mobile. Were a person to use s/d and remain with daredevil and Acro , bounding and even impaling would be better choices over UC.

[Turk.5460]

> @babazhook.6805 said:

> > @Skada.1362 said:

> > > @Elxdark.9702 said:

> > > > @Mahkno.7593 said:

> > > > > @ZhouX.8742 said:

> > > > > Sindrener seems to be doing fine , not sure... I think it depends if you're good or not. Not justifying the nerf, just saying from a few people in top tier I've seen playing it, it's not massive nerf. Similar play style just not as spammy.

> > > >

> > > > if Sindrener's skill sets the bar for balance then… you've missed the point.

> > >

> > > It's not only just Sindrener, it's every good/decent thief.

> > >

> > > At least in pvp you shouldn't have any problem with this change unless you're bad so it seems a lot of people are realising they were being carried by a single dodge, juicy nerf.

> >

> > I too feel it's fine in PVP, so I agree with Sin and every good/decent thief about that. However it really hits WvW roamers, especially the ones using s/d builds with acro. This change killed alot of build diversity.

>

> I am not sure how this kills build diversity with s/d builds. My own findings were that s/d Core builds using Acro just worked better for me then using Daredevil.

>

> Given there a swiftness add on sword two and "don't stop" removed an imaipring condition everytime swiftness applied , S/D acro did not have to rely on burning endurance to remove those conditions. Throw in the "80 percent less duration" of said conditions and those extra dodges out of the daredevil line were not needed to remain mobile. Were a person to use s/d and remain with daredevil and Acro , bounding and even impaling would be better choices over UC.

 

I don't take UC for the condi clear. I take it for the -10% Damage Reduction and longer dodge range to escape the overabundance of large AoE skills plaguing this game.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

> @Turk.5460 said:

> > @babazhook.6805 said:

> > > @Skada.1362 said:

> > > > @Elxdark.9702 said:

> > > > > @Mahkno.7593 said:

> > > > > > @ZhouX.8742 said:

> > > > > > Sindrener seems to be doing fine , not sure... I think it depends if you're good or not. Not justifying the nerf, just saying from a few people in top tier I've seen playing it, it's not massive nerf. Similar play style just not as spammy.

> > > > >

> > > > > if Sindrener's skill sets the bar for balance then… you've missed the point.

> > > >

> > > > It's not only just Sindrener, it's every good/decent thief.

> > > >

> > > > At least in pvp you shouldn't have any problem with this change unless you're bad so it seems a lot of people are realising they were being carried by a single dodge, juicy nerf.

> > >

> > > I too feel it's fine in PVP, so I agree with Sin and every good/decent thief about that. However it really hits WvW roamers, especially the ones using s/d builds with acro. This change killed alot of build diversity.

> >

> > I am not sure how this kills build diversity with s/d builds. My own findings were that s/d Core builds using Acro just worked better for me then using Daredevil.

> >

> > Given there a swiftness add on sword two and "don't stop" removed an imaipring condition everytime swiftness applied , S/D acro did not have to rely on burning endurance to remove those conditions. Throw in the "80 percent less duration" of said conditions and those extra dodges out of the daredevil line were not needed to remain mobile. Were a person to use s/d and remain with daredevil and Acro , bounding and even impaling would be better choices over UC.

>

> I don't take UC for the condi clear. I take it for the -10% Damage Reduction and longer dodge range to escape the overabundance of large AoE skills plaguing this game.

 

That is what #2 return is for :-/. Never had to wrry about heavy aoe on sword thief.

[Turk.5460]

> @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > @Turk.5460 said:

> > > @babazhook.6805 said:

> > > > @Skada.1362 said:

> > > > > @Elxdark.9702 said:

> > > > > > @Mahkno.7593 said:

> > > > > > > @ZhouX.8742 said:

> > > > > > > Sindrener seems to be doing fine , not sure... I think it depends if you're good or not. Not justifying the nerf, just saying from a few people in top tier I've seen playing it, it's not massive nerf. Similar play style just not as spammy.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > if Sindrener's skill sets the bar for balance then… you've missed the point.

> > > > >

> > > > > It's not only just Sindrener, it's every good/decent thief.

> > > > >

> > > > > At least in pvp you shouldn't have any problem with this change unless you're bad so it seems a lot of people are realising they were being carried by a single dodge, juicy nerf.

> > > >

> > > > I too feel it's fine in PVP, so I agree with Sin and every good/decent thief about that. However it really hits WvW roamers, especially the ones using s/d builds with acro. This change killed alot of build diversity.

> > >

> > > I am not sure how this kills build diversity with s/d builds. My own findings were that s/d Core builds using Acro just worked better for me then using Daredevil.

> > >

> > > Given there a swiftness add on sword two and "don't stop" removed an imaipring condition everytime swiftness applied , S/D acro did not have to rely on burning endurance to remove those conditions. Throw in the "80 percent less duration" of said conditions and those extra dodges out of the daredevil line were not needed to remain mobile. Were a person to use s/d and remain with daredevil and Acro , bounding and even impaling would be better choices over UC.

> >

> > I don't take UC for the condi clear. I take it for the -10% Damage Reduction and longer dodge range to escape the overabundance of large AoE skills plaguing this game.

>

> That is what #2 return is for :-/. Never had to wrry about heavy aoe on sword thief.

 

Infiltrator's Return has a cast time. Dodging does not.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

you can dodge into a static feild/fear wall ect. a cast time of 1/4 is like nothing.

[Turk.5460]

> @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> ...a cast time of 1/4 is like nothing.

 

Having fun in Bronze Tier?

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

i dont pvp, havnt since s1. but that does got to do with #2 return?

[Dyfinz.2348]

Oh well. I main thief but I stopped playing with daredevil a while ago. I do not plan on using my deadeye for anything other than taking pictures...I mean at first I was like damn moar nerfs...but I don't know if it helps to complain. Plenty of people who hate thieves will bury your opposition to these changes with applause, and Anet will believe they made the right choice.

[babazhook.6805]

> @Turk.5460 said:

> > @babazhook.6805 said:

> > > @Skada.1362 said:

> > > > @Elxdark.9702 said:

> > > > > @Mahkno.7593 said:

> > > > > > @ZhouX.8742 said:

> > > > > > Sindrener seems to be doing fine , not sure... I think it depends if you're good or not. Not justifying the nerf, just saying from a few people in top tier I've seen playing it, it's not massive nerf. Similar play style just not as spammy.

> > > > >

> > > > > if Sindrener's skill sets the bar for balance then… you've missed the point.

> > > >

> > > > It's not only just Sindrener, it's every good/decent thief.

> > > >

> > > > At least in pvp you shouldn't have any problem with this change unless you're bad so it seems a lot of people are realising they were being carried by a single dodge, juicy nerf.

> > >

> > > I too feel it's fine in PVP, so I agree with Sin and every good/decent thief about that. However it really hits WvW roamers, especially the ones using s/d builds with acro. This change killed alot of build diversity.

> >

> > I am not sure how this kills build diversity with s/d builds. My own findings were that s/d Core builds using Acro just worked better for me then using Daredevil.

> >

> > Given there a swiftness add on sword two and "don't stop" removed an imaipring condition everytime swiftness applied , S/D acro did not have to rely on burning endurance to remove those conditions. Throw in the "80 percent less duration" of said conditions and those extra dodges out of the daredevil line were not needed to remain mobile. Were a person to use s/d and remain with daredevil and Acro , bounding and even impaling would be better choices over UC.

>

> I don't take UC for the condi clear. I take it for the -10% Damage Reduction and longer dodge range to escape the overabundance of large AoE skills plaguing this game.

 

When I was in daredevil spec using s/d I always preffered bounding dodger for 10 percent damage increase over 10 percent damage reduction. Coupled with havoc mastery this gave a significant boost to damage done. That said I tended to put a wee bit more toughness in my s/d builds.

 

The longer distance on the evade was certainly useful using UC but as time went on I was finding it less so. There were just too many ranged AOE fields and overlapping circles of the same coupled with "mobile" AOE where the enemy could just move towards you and catch you in the AOE field. The dodges would often just end me up in another field so I relied on the port away more and more. I found with the combination of bounding damage and the 10 percent boost via the same I could get "in and out" more often and spike higher damage.

 

Once Acro tweaked again and specifically with the changes to Don't stop and Swindlers, I found the 10 percent damage add of swindlers more reliable and coupled it with either CS or DA for more damage. This is mixed in with long lasting quickness sources so when i do port in for a burst of damage I can get a lot more attacks in during the window that is available to me. I am finding DE works rather well here as well. I tend to prefer Da/acro/tr , CS/acro/tr or DE/acro/tr over Daredevil mixed in with one of those combinations in an s/d build. I have tried to drop TR and use other combinations but just could never get it working as well as I would like.

 

 

 

 

[Titan.3472]

Well I decided to roam in mirage zerk burst dps because its even faster since they nerfed thief lets go full R _ _ _ _ D until they nerf also this burst roam build xD A burst build Killing anything in 3sec instead of 7sec. ^^

[Karma Crimzin.5079]

The thing is this is more than just a nerf to a trait. I see it as a lazy way to fix a problem they are seeing. You want to calm down the use of evade and dodge yet mesmers get to evade as much or more than we did. You want to tone down the class? Most people complain about d/p builds and even then they can be dealt with by other classes well. S/d as well is now a better option with more evades the change isn't a fix its a nerf so lazy its insane.

[Turk.5460]

> @babazhook.6805 said:

> > @Turk.5460 said:

> > > @babazhook.6805 said:

> > > > @Skada.1362 said:

> > > > > @Elxdark.9702 said:

> > > > > > @Mahkno.7593 said:

> > > > > > > @ZhouX.8742 said:

> > > > > > > Sindrener seems to be doing fine , not sure... I think it depends if you're good or not. Not justifying the nerf, just saying from a few people in top tier I've seen playing it, it's not massive nerf. Similar play style just not as spammy.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > if Sindrener's skill sets the bar for balance then… you've missed the point.

> > > > >

> > > > > It's not only just Sindrener, it's every good/decent thief.

> > > > >

> > > > > At least in pvp you shouldn't have any problem with this change unless you're bad so it seems a lot of people are realising they were being carried by a single dodge, juicy nerf.

> > > >

> > > > I too feel it's fine in PVP, so I agree with Sin and every good/decent thief about that. However it really hits WvW roamers, especially the ones using s/d builds with acro. This change killed alot of build diversity.

> > >

> > > I am not sure how this kills build diversity with s/d builds. My own findings were that s/d Core builds using Acro just worked better for me then using Daredevil.

> > >

> > > Given there a swiftness add on sword two and "don't stop" removed an imaipring condition everytime swiftness applied , S/D acro did not have to rely on burning endurance to remove those conditions. Throw in the "80 percent less duration" of said conditions and those extra dodges out of the daredevil line were not needed to remain mobile. Were a person to use s/d and remain with daredevil and Acro , bounding and even impaling would be better choices over UC.

> >

> > I don't take UC for the condi clear. I take it for the -10% Damage Reduction and longer dodge range to escape the overabundance of large AoE skills plaguing this game.

>

> When I was in daredevil spec using s/d I always preffered bounding dodger for 10 percent damage increase over 10 percent damage reduction. Coupled with havoc mastery this gave a significant boost to damage done. That said I tended to put a wee bit more toughness in my s/d builds.

>

> The longer distance on the evade was certainly useful using UC but as time went on I was finding it less so. There were just too many ranged AOE fields and overlapping circles of the same coupled with "mobile" AOE where the enemy could just move towards you and catch you in the AOE field. The dodges would often just end me up in another field so I relied on the port away more and more. I found with the combination of bounding damage and the 10 percent boost via the same I could get "in and out" more often and spike higher damage.

>

> Once Acro tweaked again and specifically with the changes to Don't stop and Swindlers, I found the 10 percent damage add of swindlers more reliable and coupled it with either CS or DA for more damage. This is mixed in with long lasting quickness sources so when i do port in for a burst of damage I can get a lot more attacks in during the window that is available to me. I am finding DE works rather well here as well. I tend to prefer Da/acro/tr , CS/acro/tr or DE/acro/tr over Daredevil mixed in with one of those combinations in an s/d build. I have tried to drop TR and use other combinations but just could never get it working as well as I would like.

>

>

>

>

 

Thanks for the theorycrafting story, as usual, but this is not very relevant to the current discussion.

[Bossun.2046]

ANET:

1: How do we get people to play deadeye?

2: How about we make it so they won't want to fight in close combat and are forced to use a long range weapon!

1: Like rifle!?!!

2: And rifle is only available with deadeye!

1: :open_mouth:

 

Tis for teh lulz

[Vadar.5724]

Next update: Fixed a tooltip error. Changed Unhindered Combatant to "Hindered" Combatant.

[bud.9246]

Picking this GM trait now hurts more than helps. It also almost totally negates any attempt or traiting you did get vigor. Damn Gena!

[Druh.1092]

You take this away give us a skill called blackout that makes us immune to all enemy attacks for 6seconds, and a daggerspin move where we apply every condition in the game on a 2 second cooldown....

[Druh.1092]

yes honestly a scourge will be able to lockdown a thief now with perma cripple and thier sprint one we run out of init for sb

 

[babazhook.6805]

> @Turk.5460 said:

> > @babazhook.6805 said:

> > > @Turk.5460 said:

> > > > @babazhook.6805 said:

> > > > > @Skada.1362 said:

> > > > > > @Elxdark.9702 said:

> > > > > > > @Mahkno.7593 said:

> > > > > > > > @ZhouX.8742 said:

> > > > > > > > Sindrener seems to be doing fine , not sure... I think it depends if you're good or not. Not justifying the nerf, just saying from a few people in top tier I've seen playing it, it's not massive nerf. Similar play style just not as spammy.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > if Sindrener's skill sets the bar for balance then… you've missed the point.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It's not only just Sindrener, it's every good/decent thief.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > At least in pvp you shouldn't have any problem with this change unless you're bad so it seems a lot of people are realising they were being carried by a single dodge, juicy nerf.

> > > > >

> > > > > I too feel it's fine in PVP, so I agree with Sin and every good/decent thief about that. However it really hits WvW roamers, especially the ones using s/d builds with acro. This change killed alot of build diversity.

> > > >

> > > > I am not sure how this kills build diversity with s/d builds. My own findings were that s/d Core builds using Acro just worked better for me then using Daredevil.

> > > >

> > > > Given there a swiftness add on sword two and "don't stop" removed an imaipring condition everytime swiftness applied , S/D acro did not have to rely on burning endurance to remove those conditions. Throw in the "80 percent less duration" of said conditions and those extra dodges out of the daredevil line were not needed to remain mobile. Were a person to use s/d and remain with daredevil and Acro , bounding and even impaling would be better choices over UC.

> > >

> > > I don't take UC for the condi clear. I take it for the -10% Damage Reduction and longer dodge range to escape the overabundance of large AoE skills plaguing this game.

> >

> > When I was in daredevil spec using s/d I always preffered bounding dodger for 10 percent damage increase over 10 percent damage reduction. Coupled with havoc mastery this gave a significant boost to damage done. That said I tended to put a wee bit more toughness in my s/d builds.

> >

> > The longer distance on the evade was certainly useful using UC but as time went on I was finding it less so. There were just too many ranged AOE fields and overlapping circles of the same coupled with "mobile" AOE where the enemy could just move towards you and catch you in the AOE field. The dodges would often just end me up in another field so I relied on the port away more and more. I found with the combination of bounding damage and the 10 percent boost via the same I could get "in and out" more often and spike higher damage.

> >

> > Once Acro tweaked again and specifically with the changes to Don't stop and Swindlers, I found the 10 percent damage add of swindlers more reliable and coupled it with either CS or DA for more damage. This is mixed in with long lasting quickness sources so when i do port in for a burst of damage I can get a lot more attacks in during the window that is available to me. I am finding DE works rather well here as well. I tend to prefer Da/acro/tr , CS/acro/tr or DE/acro/tr over Daredevil mixed in with one of those combinations in an s/d build. I have tried to drop TR and use other combinations but just could never get it working as well as I would like.

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> Thanks for the theorycrafting story, as usual, but this is not very relevant to the current discussion.

 

I was pointing out how DON't stop was worked BETTER for an S/d build then UC in response to someone claiming the changes to UC wrcked build diversity of the same.You are the one who decided to butt in with your own "theorycrafting" .

 

This typical of you and I should not have expected anything better out of you. My bad for doing so.

[Turk.5460]

> @babazhook.6805 said:

> > @Turk.5460 said:

> > > @babazhook.6805 said:

> > > > @Turk.5460 said:

> > > > > @babazhook.6805 said:

> > > > > > @Skada.1362 said:

> > > > > > > @Elxdark.9702 said:

> > > > > > > > @Mahkno.7593 said:

> > > > > > > > > @ZhouX.8742 said:

> > > > > > > > > Sindrener seems to be doing fine , not sure... I think it depends if you're good or not. Not justifying the nerf, just saying from a few people in top tier I've seen playing it, it's not massive nerf. Similar play style just not as spammy.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > if Sindrener's skill sets the bar for balance then… you've missed the point.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It's not only just Sindrener, it's every good/decent thief.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > At least in pvp you shouldn't have any problem with this change unless you're bad so it seems a lot of people are realising they were being carried by a single dodge, juicy nerf.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I too feel it's fine in PVP, so I agree with Sin and every good/decent thief about that. However it really hits WvW roamers, especially the ones using s/d builds with acro. This change killed alot of build diversity.

> > > > >

> > > > > I am not sure how this kills build diversity with s/d builds. My own findings were that s/d Core builds using Acro just worked better for me then using Daredevil.

> > > > >

> > > > > Given there a swiftness add on sword two and "don't stop" removed an imaipring condition everytime swiftness applied , S/D acro did not have to rely on burning endurance to remove those conditions. Throw in the "80 percent less duration" of said conditions and those extra dodges out of the daredevil line were not needed to remain mobile. Were a person to use s/d and remain with daredevil and Acro , bounding and even impaling would be better choices over UC.

> > > >

> > > > I don't take UC for the condi clear. I take it for the -10% Damage Reduction and longer dodge range to escape the overabundance of large AoE skills plaguing this game.

> > >

> > > When I was in daredevil spec using s/d I always preffered bounding dodger for 10 percent damage increase over 10 percent damage reduction. Coupled with havoc mastery this gave a significant boost to damage done. That said I tended to put a wee bit more toughness in my s/d builds.

> > >

> > > The longer distance on the evade was certainly useful using UC but as time went on I was finding it less so. There were just too many ranged AOE fields and overlapping circles of the same coupled with "mobile" AOE where the enemy could just move towards you and catch you in the AOE field. The dodges would often just end me up in another field so I relied on the port away more and more. I found with the combination of bounding damage and the 10 percent boost via the same I could get "in and out" more often and spike higher damage.

> > >

> > > Once Acro tweaked again and specifically with the changes to Don't stop and Swindlers, I found the 10 percent damage add of swindlers more reliable and coupled it with either CS or DA for more damage. This is mixed in with long lasting quickness sources so when i do port in for a burst of damage I can get a lot more attacks in during the window that is available to me. I am finding DE works rather well here as well. I tend to prefer Da/acro/tr , CS/acro/tr or DE/acro/tr over Daredevil mixed in with one of those combinations in an s/d build. I have tried to drop TR and use other combinations but just could never get it working as well as I would like.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Thanks for the theorycrafting story, as usual, but this is not very relevant to the current discussion.

>

> I was pointing out how DON't stop was worked BETTER for an S/d build then UC in response to someone claiming the changes to UC wrcked build diversity of the same.You are the one who decided to butt in with your own "theorycrafting" .

>

> This typical of you and I should not have expected anything better out of you. My bad for doing so.

 

Maybe you should stop replying to every post regarding someone's preferred build with "I have a build that----" Yeah. No. You don't have a build that does [insert counter to someone saying they aren't able to do something]. I can't take any of your posts seriously, and generally don't even read them now if they are not a direct reply - because you don't have all this spare armor and weapons and runes/sigils laying around to change to X build at the drop of the hat. And if you *do* for whatever reason, I still can't take you seriously, because the amount of builds you post claiming to use is so unbelievably large, you wouldn't have enough experience with any of them to provide any reputable feedback.

 

So yeah, don't argue against my complaint regarding the change with your theorycrafted build vs. the build I've run through thick and thin for thousands of hours.

[babazhook.6805]

> @Turk.5460 said:

> > @babazhook.6805 said:

> > > @Turk.5460 said:

> > > > @babazhook.6805 said:

> > > > > @Turk.5460 said:

> > > > > > @babazhook.6805 said:

> > > > > > > @Skada.1362 said:

> > > > > > > > @Elxdark.9702 said:

> > > > > > > > > @Mahkno.7593 said:

> > > > > > > > > > @ZhouX.8742 said:

> > > > > > > > > > Sindrener seems to be doing fine , not sure... I think it depends if you're good or not. Not justifying the nerf, just saying from a few people in top tier I've seen playing it, it's not massive nerf. Similar play style just not as spammy.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > if Sindrener's skill sets the bar for balance then… you've missed the point.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > It's not only just Sindrener, it's every good/decent thief.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > At least in pvp you shouldn't have any problem with this change unless you're bad so it seems a lot of people are realising they were being carried by a single dodge, juicy nerf.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I too feel it's fine in PVP, so I agree with Sin and every good/decent thief about that. However it really hits WvW roamers, especially the ones using s/d builds with acro. This change killed alot of build diversity.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I am not sure how this kills build diversity with s/d builds. My own findings were that s/d Core builds using Acro just worked better for me then using Daredevil.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Given there a swiftness add on sword two and "don't stop" removed an imaipring condition everytime swiftness applied , S/D acro did not have to rely on burning endurance to remove those conditions. Throw in the "80 percent less duration" of said conditions and those extra dodges out of the daredevil line were not needed to remain mobile. Were a person to use s/d and remain with daredevil and Acro , bounding and even impaling would be better choices over UC.

> > > > >

> > > > > I don't take UC for the condi clear. I take it for the -10% Damage Reduction and longer dodge range to escape the overabundance of large AoE skills plaguing this game.

> > > >

> > > > When I was in daredevil spec using s/d I always preffered bounding dodger for 10 percent damage increase over 10 percent damage reduction. Coupled with havoc mastery this gave a significant boost to damage done. That said I tended to put a wee bit more toughness in my s/d builds.

> > > >

> > > > The longer distance on the evade was certainly useful using UC but as time went on I was finding it less so. There were just too many ranged AOE fields and overlapping circles of the same coupled with "mobile" AOE where the enemy could just move towards you and catch you in the AOE field. The dodges would often just end me up in another field so I relied on the port away more and more. I found with the combination of bounding damage and the 10 percent boost via the same I could get "in and out" more often and spike higher damage.

> > > >

> > > > Once Acro tweaked again and specifically with the changes to Don't stop and Swindlers, I found the 10 percent damage add of swindlers more reliable and coupled it with either CS or DA for more damage. This is mixed in with long lasting quickness sources so when i do port in for a burst of damage I can get a lot more attacks in during the window that is available to me. I am finding DE works rather well here as well. I tend to prefer Da/acro/tr , CS/acro/tr or DE/acro/tr over Daredevil mixed in with one of those combinations in an s/d build. I have tried to drop TR and use other combinations but just could never get it working as well as I would like.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Thanks for the theorycrafting story, as usual, but this is not very relevant to the current discussion.

> >

> > I was pointing out how DON't stop was worked BETTER for an S/d build then UC in response to someone claiming the changes to UC wrcked build diversity of the same.You are the one who decided to butt in with your own "theorycrafting" .

> >

> > This typical of you and I should not have expected anything better out of you. My bad for doing so.

>

> Maybe you should stop replying to every post regarding someone's preferred build with "I have a build that----" Yeah. No. You don't have a build that does [insert counter to someone saying they aren't able to do something]. I can't take any of your posts seriously, and generally don't even read them now if they are not a direct reply - because you don't have all this spare armor and weapons and runes/sigils laying around to change to X build at the drop of the hat. And if you *do* for whatever reason, I still can't take you seriously, because the amount of builds you post claiming to use is so unbelievably large, you wouldn't have enough experience with any of them to provide any reputable feedback.

>

> So yeah, don't argue against my complaint regarding the change with your theorycrafted build vs. the build I've run through thick and thin for thousands of hours.

 

Again, I was not responding to you. I was responding to a person who claimed the loss of UC directly affected S/d build diversity. It did not and I showed why. You butted in with something not relevant to that point. The next time, if you do not want the stuff you spout refuted, do not respond to a post I made that had nothing to do with you.

 

I have six separate Thieves on my account now and Yes I change them AT THE DROP OF A HAT. I will often change over several times in a single evening. I HAVE all of those runes and sigils lying around. They are ALL in ascended gear with multiple weapons for each including builds that have Night sigils which I use only at night. I even have extra ascended armor for a thief set aside for when I finally get around to making a full grieving set. I have tried builds and used the mystic forg to change gear around multiple times when i decided i wanted to try something new on the same. How much experience do YOU need to understand how a build works? It is not rocket science . It does not take thousands of hours to understand the limitations of a build or its strengths or weaknesses. You can get most of the information you need by reading the tooltips and theorycrafting. You can then take the build in to the game and determine in far less then thousands of hours whether it works or whether there better alternatives.

 

As to reading my posts , don't if you do not want to. it no skin off my nose. What YOU decide you want to do is absolutely immaterial to how and why I play this game or what I decide I want to post here.

 

[Cynz.9437]

> @Mahkno.7593 said:

> in the next patch _dash_ will self stun for 45 seconds. swiftness granted by this trait will now set you on fire.

 

Wouldn't even surprise me. Anyone tried to use spear 4 yet? Self stun for 4 ini while enemy is murdering you. Biggest joke in entire game and it has been there since launch.

[Cynz.9437]

> @Elxdark.9702 said:

> > @Mahkno.7593 said:

> > > @ZhouX.8742 said:

> > > Sindrener seems to be doing fine , not sure... I think it depends if you're good or not. Not justifying the nerf, just saying from a few people in top tier I've seen playing it, it's not massive nerf. Similar play style just not as spammy.

> >

> > if Sindrener's skill sets the bar for balance then… you've missed the point.

>

> It's not only just Sindrener, it's every good/decent thief.

>

> At least in pvp you shouldn't have any problem with this change unless you're bad so it seems a lot of people are realising they were being carried by a single dodge, juicy nerf.

 

Whether Sind is fine with it or not is moot, the point is that no other class got such treatment. Why doesn't Anet go around and start heavily nerf grandmaster traits from all profs (EM from mirage anyone?) so those traits punish the player for using them. Why is it always the thief getting messed up balance changes (e.g. AA locked out because stealth attack got blocked by random aegis)?

[Fade.5904]

Lets apply the same premise to other classes.

 

Weaver - Woven stride - Gain swiftness when you are inflicted with inhibiting conditions. When gaining either superspeed or swiftness, also gain regeneration. Swiftness has increased effectiveness. - ALSO *gain 4s of Slow when you gain swiftness*

 

Tempest - Elemental Bastion - Auras you apply heal allies. Apply a frost aura to yourself and nearby allies when struck while below the health threshold. ALSO *attunements gain 4s extra recharge when you apply an aura to an ally*

 

Dragonhunter - Hunter's Fortification - Remove conditions when blocking attacks. Receive less damage when you have no conditions on you. ALSO *Boons cannot be applied to you for 4s after blocking an attack*

 

Firebrand - Quickfire - Granting quickness to an ally also grants Ashes of the Just. ALSO - *Add 4s to your tome recharge each time you grant an ally quickness*

 

Reaper - Deathly Chill - Chill Deals Damage over time - ALSO *loose life force every time you apply chill*

 

Scourge - Demonic Lore - Torment you inflict deals increased damage and causes your foes to burn. ALSO *applying torment to an enemy decreases the duration of your sand shades by 2s*

 

Chronomancer - Chronophantasma - Your phantasms are resummoned after the first time they are shattered. ALSO *When they are shattered again you cannot create a clone for 4s*

 

Mirage - Elusive Mind - Dodging breaks stun and removes conditions. ALSO * when you break stun all illusions instantly shatter*

[Turk.5460]

> @babazhook.6805 said:

> > @Turk.5460 said:

> > > @babazhook.6805 said:

> > > > @Turk.5460 said:

> > > > > @babazhook.6805 said:

> > > > > > @Turk.5460 said:

> > > > > > > @babazhook.6805 said:

> > > > > > > > @Skada.1362 said:

> > > > > > > > > @Elxdark.9702 said:

> > > > > > > > > > @Mahkno.7593 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @ZhouX.8742 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > Sindrener seems to be doing fine , not sure... I think it depends if you're good or not. Not justifying the nerf, just saying from a few people in top tier I've seen playing it, it's not massive nerf. Similar play style just not as spammy.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > if Sindrener's skill sets the bar for balance then… you've missed the point.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > It's not only just Sindrener, it's every good/decent thief.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > At least in pvp you shouldn't have any problem with this change unless you're bad so it seems a lot of people are realising they were being carried by a single dodge, juicy nerf.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I too feel it's fine in PVP, so I agree with Sin and every good/decent thief about that. However it really hits WvW roamers, especially the ones using s/d builds with acro. This change killed alot of build diversity.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I am not sure how this kills build diversity with s/d builds. My own findings were that s/d Core builds using Acro just worked better for me then using Daredevil.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Given there a swiftness add on sword two and "don't stop" removed an imaipring condition everytime swiftness applied , S/D acro did not have to rely on burning endurance to remove those conditions. Throw in the "80 percent less duration" of said conditions and those extra dodges out of the daredevil line were not needed to remain mobile. Were a person to use s/d and remain with daredevil and Acro , bounding and even impaling would be better choices over UC.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I don't take UC for the condi clear. I take it for the -10% Damage Reduction and longer dodge range to escape the overabundance of large AoE skills plaguing this game.

> > > > >

> > > > > When I was in daredevil spec using s/d I always preffered bounding dodger for 10 percent damage increase over 10 percent damage reduction. Coupled with havoc mastery this gave a significant boost to damage done. That said I tended to put a wee bit more toughness in my s/d builds.

> > > > >

> > > > > The longer distance on the evade was certainly useful using UC but as time went on I was finding it less so. There were just too many ranged AOE fields and overlapping circles of the same coupled with "mobile" AOE where the enemy could just move towards you and catch you in the AOE field. The dodges would often just end me up in another field so I relied on the port away more and more. I found with the combination of bounding damage and the 10 percent boost via the same I could get "in and out" more often and spike higher damage.

> > > > >

> > > > > Once Acro tweaked again and specifically with the changes to Don't stop and Swindlers, I found the 10 percent damage add of swindlers more reliable and coupled it with either CS or DA for more damage. This is mixed in with long lasting quickness sources so when i do port in for a burst of damage I can get a lot more attacks in during the window that is available to me. I am finding DE works rather well here as well. I tend to prefer Da/acro/tr , CS/acro/tr or DE/acro/tr over Daredevil mixed in with one of those combinations in an s/d build. I have tried to drop TR and use other combinations but just could never get it working as well as I would like.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Thanks for the theorycrafting story, as usual, but this is not very relevant to the current discussion.

> > >

> > > I was pointing out how DON't stop was worked BETTER for an S/d build then UC in response to someone claiming the changes to UC wrcked build diversity of the same.You are the one who decided to butt in with your own "theorycrafting" .

> > >

> > > This typical of you and I should not have expected anything better out of you. My bad for doing so.

> >

> > Maybe you should stop replying to every post regarding someone's preferred build with "I have a build that----" Yeah. No. You don't have a build that does [insert counter to someone saying they aren't able to do something]. I can't take any of your posts seriously, and generally don't even read them now if they are not a direct reply - because you don't have all this spare armor and weapons and runes/sigils laying around to change to X build at the drop of the hat. And if you *do* for whatever reason, I still can't take you seriously, because the amount of builds you post claiming to use is so unbelievably large, you wouldn't have enough experience with any of them to provide any reputable feedback.

> >

> > So yeah, don't argue against my complaint regarding the change with your theorycrafted build vs. the build I've run through thick and thin for thousands of hours.

>

> Again, I was not responding to you. I was responding to a person who claimed the loss of UC directly affected S/d build diversity. It did not and I showed why. You butted in with something not relevant to that point. The next time, if you do not want the stuff you spout refuted, do not respond to a post I made that had nothing to do with you.

>

> I have six separate Thieves on my account now and Yes I change them AT THE DROP OF A HAT. I will often change over several times in a single evening. I HAVE all of those runes and sigils lying around. They are ALL in ascended gear with multiple weapons for each including builds that have Night sigils which I use only at night. I even have extra ascended armor for a thief set aside for when I finally get around to making a full grieving set. I have tried builds and used the mystic forg to change gear around multiple times when i decided i wanted to try something new on the same. How much experience do YOU need to understand how a build works? It is not rocket science . It does not take thousands of hours to understand the limitations of a build or its strengths or weaknesses. You can get most of the information you need by reading the tooltips and theorycrafting. You can then take the build in to the game and determine in far less then thousands of hours whether it works or whether there better alternatives.

>

> As to reading my posts , don't if you do not want to. it no skin off my nose. What YOU decide you want to do is absolutely immaterial to how and why I play this game or what I decide I want to post here.

>

 

You replied to *my* comment directly, regarding the contents of *my* comment, not the person's from a few posts up the chain. I read a comment, then decided to input my thoughts *directly regarding that comment*. This is how forum discussions work, it's not butting in when I'm providing feedback in a public medium. However, you decided to reply to my comment, yet not even address what my comment was even about. That is why I saw it as irrelevant. Don't do that. Don't be that "I wasn't talking to you!" guy when things aren't going your way. And if you truly play Thief that much, then you should very well know that there is a huge difference between "understanding how a build works" and "actual experience using said build." I don't doubt that you understand all these builds you claim to have, however I just don't see how you would have enough experience with them to provide adequate feedback, since the amount that you often post are numerous.