Did PoF succeed or not?

[Zedek.8932]

Excelsior.

 

I highly enjoy PoF because I never really had access to HoT. The maps are breahtakingly well designed (as a hobby mapper in some video games, I can truly appreciate those gigantic maps) but for a single person just too big and too dangerous. Let me explain that a bit: I am a lone wolf, and thus I am fighting my way through mordrem and hostile jungle inhibitants by myself while trying to figure out which out of the 6 possible ways to reach a certain place (e.g. a story waypoint) is actually leading me to my goal. Every time I try I get caught in fights in narrow places, often on bridges, ledges and other narrow walkways - do you think I can/could fight as Thief/Daredevil back then? To avoid dashing into my own suicide death, I just tried to avoid enemies. That's plain garbage. Also, when I killed a group of enemies and walk a bit further into a deep cave that IMPLIES that I can reach my goal there, the guys behind me respawned and I was trapped, often being out of health, everything on (long time) cooldown, out of initiave and stamina and just died miserably, starting in the middle of nowhere at ONE out of THREE waypoints..

 

The events are not appealing to me, because they are too anonymized and I really lost hope of group content 2 years ago, which is fifty-fifty the fault of the online communities (and their dumbed-down, speed running, DPS metering attitude) and my personal expectation of what is worthwile in MMORPGs. So HoT did not offer me that much. Actually, it did offer me nothing. I have not and can not even finish the story because I can't reach the waypoint required for the departure to Rata Novus mission. I can not friggin reach it. I gave up after 2.5 hours of trying and getting into the aforementioned endless fights in caves or on high pathways..

 

HoT, however, gave me a realy, imense blast. So much that I spent 90€ on it (the game and the gems - converted to gold - for the Hunter, my beloved Sniper precursor), that's almost 1.5 full price game started from scratch on the market. The graphics are well better, the performance is as well (less flora, which was too much for an eight core and a GTX1080 on FullHD, you know the complaints and the technicals reasons behind), the story, well, I do not care, but voice acting shifted up again (the German one atleast), the missions are great, Deadeye is THE profession for me, we got mounts that are not just adorable on their own, but also serve a purpose (I expected them to be just a speed buff) and the fair pricing of PoF really made it. It's a well-designed, and in my opinion top notch expansion, especially when again considered the pricing. Quality went up in all departments, not expected the great look of the raptor's shards with all the reflections and such. Maps are accessible and full of sniping positions, so I can actually play my profession. Also, the NPC look like the black afro background dancers in 90s Eurodance videoclips that occasionally say "Loff is da answa" into the mic. I feel like a kid again!

 

 

[otto.5684]

It is hard to tell. It also varies based on how you measure. Based on sales, players number growth, player retention or metric reviews.

 

Personal opinion, PoF looks super cool, but once the "cool" factor wears off, there is not much left. Just like mounts. I though they will increase game play depth. They ended-up being nothing more than movement speed modifier. HoT had much more depth and substance all across, it just was less polished, accessible and more difficult. Though it ended-up having strong longevity due to impressive designs.

 

[blambidy.3216]

Success would depend on ArenaNets goal, to determine how many sold to say, “we will make exp 3.” I don’t know how many needs to be sold to be considered “successful.” However ign ranked gw2 as top 3 from all mmos to play in 2017. So successful I would lean more to it then away.

 

As for gameplay to my opinion I liked pof ether equally or more then hot. But I like hot. I didn’t play gw1 and then go into the game. I also didn’t start when gw2 was first made. I played barely then 2 years so I’m not a specialist to critique the game.

 

Pof to me was an adventure per se compared to hot. In hot basically the goal was get glider. Get updraft to finish the story. In pof I liked how they made you need all mounts. At first I thought you could just select a mount and not worry about the others. But i think what they did was a good thing to keep you going. In hot the masteries were really I have to have these to continue.

 

Pof to me was a good thing and good approach. People complained about not being able to one man the expansion. Well pof you can. To me I wish it was as hard as hot but the enjoyment of pof made me scratch it.

 

Now let’s see what else what will be added because livingworld season 4 should be adding more stuff. Which is only playable if you have pof. So I don’t think it’s good yet to judge compared to hot. Hot is finished. Pof isn’t finished yet because ArenaNet did say lvs4. And More raids. So assuming that, we still have more story and maps and masteries to go through to actually say, “was it successful?”

 

So give it Time. Now that living world season 4 is coming other game features will be added.

[BlakThornArrow.2389]

I think POF did great but I do dislike the fact that you are only needed to obtain 3 of the 4 mounts to complete the story whilst I think they could have implemented all of them a bit better story wise. (Not counting griffon)

[Healix.5819]

For a really rough comparison, PoF sold a lot better, but earned the same due to its lower price. HoT launched early into the quarter and was still selling in the next, so estimating its launch sales by simply subtracting the next quarter, it earned roughly 6774 million KRW. PoF launched with only a week left in the quarter, so estimating it's launch sales by subtracting the normal sales, it earned roughly 6588 million KRW.

 

The real test will be in ~6 months. After HoT, normal quarterly profits dropped by 25% and continued on the usual downward trend. Will the living world launching earlier manage to hold onto players for longer, or will they only continue to decline?

 

Will there be another expansion? Probably, and I wouldn't be surprised if their goal is an expansion every 1.5 years, back to back with 6 episodes of the living world.

[BadSanta.6527]

as i ranger main the xpac was bad for me idid not imagne in my worst dream that soulbeast ill be that patatic .. i fell like every class now look better and i dont have the will to play any more

[Cynn.1659]

Haven't done anything in new maps in like a month. The only time i go there is to use bank and tp.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @Healix.5819 said:

> Will there be another expansion? Probably, and I wouldn't be surprised if their goal is an expansion every 1.5 years, back to back with 6 episodes of the living world.

 

I pray, if that's the case, that they won't release elite specs with the next one.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @Healix.5819 said:

> For a really rough comparison, PoF sold a lot better, but earned the same due to its lower price. HoT launched early into the quarter and was still selling in the next, so estimating its launch sales by simply subtracting the next quarter, it earned roughly 6774 million KRW. PoF launched with only a week left in the quarter, so estimating it's launch sales by subtracting the normal sales, it earned roughly 6588 million KRW.

 

Both release quarters included their pre-order sales since pre-order sales are added to the quarter of release and not when the pre-order was made.

Also I'm not sure about your numbers, in 2017Q3 Guild Wars has a revenue of 20145 while in 2015Q4 37331 this is a significant difference compared to Path of Fire.

We need to wait for Q4 of 2017 (or even Q1 of 2018) to have a more clear picture but Heart of Thorns in Q3+Q4 got an income of 37331 + 30557 = 67888

Also in the sales of 2017Q3 you need to add Heart of Thorns sales. How many took advantage of the deal to buy both expansions at a reduced rate? Even if you exclude the gem store, the number in Guild Wars 2 revenue is not only from Path of Fire sales.

[Shiyo.3578]

> @Lunateric.3708 said:

> I enjoyed the story, the pacing and the maps a ton but it was pretty lacking on rewards overall, it was a HUGE missed opportunity to not have at least a couple mount skins as in-game rewards. I don't see Serpent's Ire or Maw being as repeatable and worthwhile as HoT metas either.

 

There's more to maps than metas.

Playing HOT has gotten people confused about how to make gold or have fun or get rewarded unless it's a big meta with commanders telling you exactly where to go at all times.

 

By the way, bounties are spammable meta bosses.

[Shiyo.3578]

> @BadSanta.6527 said:

> as i ranger main the xpac was bad for me idid not imagne in my worst dream that soulbeast ill be that patatic .. i fell like every class now look better and i dont have the will to play any more

 

Soulbeast is the best thing to ever happen to ranger. I main soulbeast/ranger.

[Ashen.2907]

> @Shiyo.3578 said:

> > @BadSanta.6527 said:

> > as i ranger main the xpac was bad for me idid not imagne in my worst dream that soulbeast ill be that patatic .. i fell like every class now look better and i dont have the will to play any more

>

> Soulbeast is the best thing to ever happen to ranger. I main soulbeast/ranger.

 

This.

 

[Lunateric.3708]

> @Shiyo.3578 said:

> > @Lunateric.3708 said:

> > I enjoyed the story, the pacing and the maps a ton but it was pretty lacking on rewards overall, it was a HUGE missed opportunity to not have at least a couple mount skins as in-game rewards. I don't see Serpent's Ire or Maw being as repeatable and worthwhile as HoT metas either.

>

> There's more to maps than metas.

> Playing HOT has gotten people confused about how to make gold or have fun or get rewarded unless it's a big meta with commanders telling you exactly where to go at all times.

>

> By the way, bounties are spammable meta bosses.

 

Not sure how to address you missing I'm comparing HoT metas to PoF metas. Bounties are largely champ trains if anything, nothing to do with a meta.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @Healix.5819 said:

> For a really rough comparison, PoF sold a lot better, but earned the same due to its lower price. HoT launched early into the quarter and was still selling in the next, so estimating its launch sales by simply subtracting the next quarter, it earned roughly 6774 million KRW. PoF launched with only a week left in the quarter, so estimating it's launch sales by subtracting the normal sales, it earned roughly 6588 million KRW.

 

There's something wrong with your methodology.

 

GW2 revenue

Q3/15 (pre HoT): 20,699 Mn KW

Q4/15 (HoT release): 37,331 Mn KW

 

NCSoft stated, "GW2 solidified its position as a main revenue driver, by adding on expansion pack sales to stable in-game items sales."

 

That strongly implies that HoT brought in a lot more than 6774 Mn KW in Q4/15 alone.

 

It looks like you subtracted

 

Q1/16: 30,557 Mn KW

 

from Q4/15's number to get your estimate of 6,774 Mn KW attributable to HoT "box" sales. Given that store sales high water mark in 2015 was Q2, with 22,470 Mn KW, it seems likely that somewhere between 20K and 22K ought to be subtracted from both Q4/15 and Q1/16, with the remainder attributed to HoT box sales. If we chose to subtract 22,470 from both Q4/15 and Q11/16, HoT box revenue would be somewhere around 22,948 Mn KW.

 

That said, the PoF picture is not yet complete, as you say.

[Ayakaru.6583]

my problem with Path of Fire is that they tried too many different things, so instead of 5 finished things, we got 20 half-finished things. The maps are big, but mostly empty. The story was okay, but chaotic, and sometimes the story itself functioned as an immersion-breaker. Overal, I'd have to say the expansion way too easy as well. My warrior ran through the the entire expansion like a hot knife through butter.

 

But at the end, there was this instance for the Gryffon collection, with elites each with their own unique abilities. And I thought to myself, these guys are great, these guys know how to fight. Why are they all locked in a 10 minute one-time-ever instance? Use them everywhere, mobs with unique abilities should be the standard for stronger enemies, not just health sponges.

[Healix.5819]

> @maddoctor.2738 said:

> I pray, if that's the case, that they won't release elite specs with the next one.

 

Until they offer alternatives or start doing PvE-only specs, you know there's always going to be one as an incentive to buy the expansion for those who don't PvE.

 

> @maddoctor.2738 said:

> Both release quarters included their pre-order sales since pre-order sales are added to the quarter of release and not when the pre-order was made.

> Also I'm not sure about your numbers, in 2017Q3 Guild Wars has a revenue of 20145 while in 2015Q4 37331 this is a significant difference compared to Path of Fire.

> We need to wait for Q4 of 2017 (or even Q1 of 2018) to have a more clear picture but Heart of Thorns in Q3+Q4 got an income of 37331 + 30557 = 67888

> Also in the sales of 2017Q3 you need to add Heart of Thorns sales. How many took advantage of the deal to buy both expansions at a reduced rate? Even if you exclude the gem store, the number in Guild Wars 2 revenue is not only from Path of Fire sales.

 

That was a rough comparison of only the influx in sales due to the initial launch, which of course is where all pre-launch sales are factored in. It's a lot more accurate for PoF since it only had a week, whereas HoT can only be vaguely estimated since it launched early into the quarter. For PoF, total sales were 20145 during its launch quarter and by subtracting the sales in the previous quarter (13557), you can estimate PoF's launch sales to be 6588. For HoT, total sales were 37331 during its launch quarter and 20699 during the previous quarter, which makes HoT's first quarter sales 16632, but that's for the entire quarter. By subtracting the next quarter instead (30557), that puts HoT's launch sales at an estimated 6774. Obviously this could be highly inaccurate. Unfortunately, there never will be a true comparison since PoF will be influenced by S4 and mounts likely far more than gliders, but the real test is growing afterwards.

 

The bundle could have sold really well, but that's still more PoF sales, and really, HoT was always and is still cheaper elsewhere. To be completely fair, HoT also had a year of major advertising which should have boosted its initial sales, but maybe not due to all the bad advertising, whereas PoF was announced and released within a month and essentially only advertised to its existing players, but it also had mounts, which tend to be very popular in MMOs.

 

But like I said, the true test will be in 6 months (2Q18) when box sales are no longer a factor. It doesn't really matter how it sold if they just continue on track as if nothing happened and continue to bleed, but GW3 is realistically the only way to fix that at this point.

 

[Harper.4173]

> @AliamRationem.5172 said:

> I know GW2 is a casual game, but ANet's idea of "casual" appears to be simply running around in open world with no goals to work toward. Once again they produce a beautiful game with a really fun combat system...and yet manage to provide few reasons to play it.

 

That's pretty much it.

The combat is fun, the maps are gorgeous, the mounts make traversing them even more interesting and engaging but the only thing that's missing is a reason to go there. Something to do besides do Dynamic events. Those are fun the first few times you do them then fall off.

Bounties aren't that fun since they're a laggy zergfest. Sorry - that's just how it is. It requires no input on my part other than "Spam skill #1 and get loot". And even the loot you get from them is bad.

What else is there again? Some meta events that you need to do a few times for the collections.

I really, really wanted to like PoF - I really loved CD in GW1 and was desperately hoping PoF would have some form of staying power.

[Harper.4173]

> @"Witch of Doom.5739" said:

> > @Adenin.5973 said:

>

> > 2. Repeatable heart quests should have serious consequences for whatever person at Anet came up with them.

>

> This. Did someone think, "Let's figure out how we can really frustrate players the most?" If they have to be repeatable for rewards, at least leave the vendor part available. Doing the same mundane chores over and over to access a vendor is the epitome of boredom-inducement.

 

Remember when GW2 was supposed to be about having fun and not grinding?

Doing the same menial thing each day in order to unlock vendor services is the epitome of grind.

[Ashen.2907]

> @Harper.4173 said:

> > @AliamRationem.5172 said:

> > I know GW2 is a casual game, but ANet's idea of "casual" appears to be simply running around in open world with no goals to work toward. Once again they produce a beautiful game with a really fun combat system...and yet manage to provide few reasons to play it.

>

> That's pretty much it.

> The combat is fun, the maps are gorgeous, the mounts make traversing them even more interesting and engaging but the only thing that's missing is a reason to go there. Something to do besides do Dynamic events. Those are fun the first few times you do them then fall off.

> Bounties aren't that fun since they're a laggy zergfest. Sorry - that's just how it is. It requires no input on my part other than "Spam skill #1 and get loot". And even the loot you get from them is bad.

> What else is there again? Some meta events that you need to do a few times for the collections.

> I really, really wanted to like PoF - I really loved CD in GW1 and was desperately hoping PoF would have some form of staying power.

 

Hey, some people bave to hit F as well!

[Harper.4173]

> @Shiyo.3578 said:

> > @Lunateric.3708 said:

> > I enjoyed the story, the pacing and the maps a ton but it was pretty lacking on rewards overall, it was a HUGE missed opportunity to not have at least a couple mount skins as in-game rewards. I don't see Serpent's Ire or Maw being as repeatable and worthwhile as HoT metas either.

>

> There's more to maps than metas.

> Playing HOT has gotten people confused about how to make gold or have fun or get rewarded unless it's a big meta with commanders telling you exactly where to go at all times.

>

> By the way, bounties are spammable meta bosses.

 

And what exactly do they reward you with? Why bother doing them?

[Zin Dau.1749]

The entire purpose of POF is to attract players to mounts, then sell and profit off of mount skins via crafty methods (luck-based Skinner boxes & overpriced skins).

[SkyShroud.2865]

Out of 10, I will give a 7 because I completed the map completions and many AP but for HOT, I did the maps sloppily and not a least bit interested in doing the AP.

[Khisanth.2948]

> @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> The mounts are great The expansion wasn’t really my cup of tea. It felt unfocused. Returning to escort events and plugging holes in pipes was boring and I missed having meta events in the maps. If they had Silverwastes like meta event chains I think I would had found this expansion much more interesting.

 

That is something I found very strange. For some reason I just have no interest in stopping to do any of the events in PoF. That is not true in core or in HoT but it's not like the events are all that much different either. Something about PoF events just makes them feel less appealing to participate in. Except Casino Blitz :P

[Vayne.8563]

> @IndigoSundown.5419 said:

> > @Healix.5819 said:

> > For a really rough comparison, PoF sold a lot better, but earned the same due to its lower price. HoT launched early into the quarter and was still selling in the next, so estimating its launch sales by simply subtracting the next quarter, it earned roughly 6774 million KRW. PoF launched with only a week left in the quarter, so estimating it's launch sales by subtracting the normal sales, it earned roughly 6588 million KRW.

>

> There's something wrong with your methodology.

>

> GW2 revenue

> Q3/15 (pre HoT): 20,699 Mn KW

> Q4/15 (HoT release): 37,331 Mn KW

>

> NCSoft stated, "GW2 solidified its position as a main revenue driver, by adding on expansion pack sales to stable in-game items sales."

>

> That strongly implies that HoT brought in a lot more than 6774 Mn KW in Q4/15 alone.

>

> It looks like you subtracted

>

> Q1/16: 30,557 Mn KW

>

> from Q4/15's number to get your estimate of 6,774 Mn KW attributable to HoT "box" sales. Given that store sales high water mark in 2015 was Q2, with 22,470 Mn KW, it seems likely that somewhere between 20K and 22K ought to be subtracted from both Q4/15 and Q1/16, with the remainder attributed to HoT box sales. If we chose to subtract 22,470 from both Q4/15 and Q11/16, HoT box revenue would be somewhere around 22,948 Mn KW.

>

> That said, the PoF picture is not yet complete, as you say.

 

I have little doubt that HoT, over time, will be considered a better expansion than PoF, though the mounts are really cool. There are casual players who love to solo, who never want to have to have anyone help them with anything and many of them will like PoF better. There are people who are just bad at navigating and some of them will like PoF better. But HoT remains more crowded, because there's more to do. And there 's more reason to be there. People who complained about HoT asked for changes to be made by Anet and Anet made a lot of those changes. This is why, sometimes, companies need to stick to their guns.

 

I like both HOT and POF. Anyone who said HoT wasn't successful hasn't really been paying attention though. HoT didn't set any records for sure, but it was absolutely a successsful expansion. The biggest isssues with HoT had less to do with HoT and more to do with marketing, which soured the community on the game. That is also reflected in review ratings .

 

I like both expansions, but I'm pretty sure HoT was the more successful of the two. That said, I think PoF is probably successful too. It didn't fail. It got much better publicity than HOT. But HoT probably sold better. One other thing. PoF has to sell 5 copies for every 3 of HoT sold to get the same numbers due to the lower price.

[MFoy.3284]

For 30 bucks I'd say I got my money's worth