Please do not use real-world names for items

[Rukia.9860]

Oh boy this is right up there with people who were crying about the pet fish with no water lol grow up.

[wolfyrik.2017]

> @Dashingsteel.3410 said:

> Many people do believe in the occult and do try to communicate with demons. I am not commenting on if they are successful. I am saying that Anet shouldn't connect the game to this garbage.

 

That is simply nonsense. Nobody does that, you're just referencing the paranoia of 1980s hicks. The so called "satanic panic" where the gullible and stupid thought that musicians were putting satanic chants onto their vinyl. Paranoia created by greedy, manipulative charlatans who wanted to make a quick buck off the credulous. Pretty successfully too, which is a shocking idictment of the herd mentality of our society. Men in Black was spot on with the line

"Smart? a person is smart, people are dumb, stupid panicky animals"

 

Who cares if Anet use the name of a book by some historic numpty? It's like being afraid of them putting the line Beetlejuice Beetlejuice Beetlejuice in someones dialogue.

 

I'd be more upset if they started putting real life pseudo-scienctific cons into the game. Like replacing engineers med-kit with a homeopathy kit. THAT would be grounds to complain.

 

Referencing Ars Goetia is no problem. They may as well have called it Necronomicon or Harry Potter and the Philosphers Stone, the result would have been the same. If you don't like people referencing the work of deluded or fanciful historical authors, then maybe fanatasy games are not for you.

[Fremtid.3528]

> @WeedyZeGreedy.8635 said:

> > @Dashingsteel.3410 said:

> > Anet, please quit naming unique items after historical items from the real world. Tyria is supposed to be its own unique world and should have no connection with planet Earth. The new legendary focus titled Ars Goetia is actually a 17th century book about summoning demons. It was later revised by Alister Crowley in the 20th century. Why do you have to connect Tyria with this kind of crap? I prefer fantasy pretend world.

> >

> > just google ars goetia and you will see what I am talking about

>

> The New legendary focus' name is not ars goetia, that's the precursor. **The name of the legendary is the binding of ipos.** Get your patch note reading straight :P

 

Yeah i've been reading this thread for days thinking "why hasn't no one pointed that out yet?" but I wanted to see how long to OP would go on about this, while, still, being incorrect.

 

 

[Dashingsteel.3410]

@"WeedyZeGreedy.8635" .... Yeah, I browsed through the patch notes and mixed up the precursor name with the legendary. My concern is not with the legendary but the precursor.

[Ayakaru.6583]

I don't hear you complain about the Sylvari (dryads) or the Norn (walkuren).

I do love the Asura so much because they're very unique and not the standard tinkering gnomes.

But Three GW1 main villain, Abaddon, was also a referenced God, from a presider of hell, the Lord of Flies, Abaddon

[Dawdler.8521]

> @wolfyrik.2017 said:

> Referencing Ars Goetia is no problem. They may as well have called it Necronomicon or Harry Potter and the Philosphers Stone, the result would have been the same.

I am fairly sure calling it that last part would have summoned real demons from the depths of hell.

 

Ah I mean laywers from England. Same thing.

[Fremtid.3528]

I do find it obscenely interesting when some people are hyperfocused on one thing they find issue with. Let's say for example ars goetia. Ignore everything that invalidates their point like the fact that 90% or more of the game is named after real things and even blasts pasts points that there are real names in the game in the same category (like Abbaddon, Zhaitan etc) and beat that dead horse into the ground because this one item triggered them so much. It's illogical. Why is this item any different than any of the other demon based lore that's been in the game for years without complaint? idk coz reasons. Personally, I don't know how long it took them to come up with a theme/name for their precursor collection and legendary but I don't them wasting EXTRA time on top of that to create "original, not anywhere else seen names" because who the heck knows how long that would take, time that could be spent developing something else cool. Like other legendaries. I am deeply sorry this demon book offends you. But in my opinion, that's your problem, stop making it ours.

[Kapax.3801]

> @Dashingsteel.3410 said:

> Anet, please quit naming unique items after historical items from the real world. Tyria is supposed to be its own unique world and should have no connection with planet Earth. The new legendary focus titled Ars Goetia is actually a 17th century book about summoning demons. It was later revised by Alister Crowley in the 20th century. Why do you have to connect Tyria with this kind of crap? I prefer fantasy pretend world.

>

> just google ars goetia and you will see what I am talking about

 

But if the gods helped us escape from the earth after this collapse product of nuclear war.

They opened a three-dimensional portal that connected to an Asura gate and thus we managed to escape from the end of the world ... once in Tirya we returned to the middle ages and now we seek to screw it up again.

 

And it is said that Tyria is really Mercury, and that the sun began to die and now it is only 5% of what it was once, that is why life occurred in Tyria.

 

And that is why some objects have a name for our reality, because it is based on the humanity of the earth.

 

:# :# :# :#

[Seyiwaji.4082]

is this topic for real.......?

[flog.3485]

> @Oglaf.1074 said:

> Personally, I'm far more disturbed by the fact that my brain keeps automatically adding an 'E' to the end of 'Ars' whenever I read it.

>

 

I believe the demons already caught you. Please stop playing this game before you actually bring havoc to the world by summoning real demons irl.

[Kal Spiro.9745]

Humans aren't native to Tyria. Humans were brought to Tyria, from somewhere else, by the gods. Probably Earth. Since Humans are probably from Earth, it is technically true that someone who had, or had knowledge of, that book could have been among them. As a result this could just be a result of that knowledge transmitted through time.

[Polarfairy.8046]

**A list of things referenced in Guilds Wars 2 that have references to the real world be it ficton or non**

* The Bifrost- Based on the rainbow bridge between worlds in Norse mythology

* Chuka and Champawat - Named after actual tigers who killed actual people in the nineteen-hundreds

* The Dreamer- Unicorns. Have you ever seen a unicorn in Tyria because I sure haven't.

* Nevermore- A reference to Mr Poe and his deeply depressing poem.

* Abaddon- Appears in the bible, basically the angel of death.

* Dragons- I mean... dragons. Referenced through history and religion, killed by kings and saints.

 

I could go on and on, everything we know as fantasy as existed in our world for hundreds and hundreds of years. Belief and disbelief are a personal experience for everything we have legends about. Yes demonology is something people study and practice in our world just as there are druids that visit Stonehenge on the summer solstice and hunters in Washington that spend weeks waiting for Bigfoot. The Ars Goetia is a historic book written in a time when people were fascinated by demons and spirits, witchcraft. It is in it's essence, fantasy. You can't cherry pick when it comes to these things, if you don't like it just don't make it.

[Carlin Sanders.3587]

> @Oglaf.1074 said:

> Personally, I'm far more disturbed by the fact that my brain keeps automatically adding an 'E' to the end of 'Ars' whenever I read it.

>

 

'The summoning of Evil Buttocks - Vol I'

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

Love how all the "experts" come out in topics like these. Please continue this. It's very entertaining.

[MarshallLaw.9260]

> @Dashingsteel.3410 said:

> okay... one more time.... A game that takes place in an imaginary world where characters do imaginary things is quite different from a real world where people attempt to do evil things. So why associate a game item with a real item that represents evil?

 

With all due respect, the item in question represents evil in _your_ opinion. I do not doubt that there are others who will agree with you, I am not insinuating you are crazy to have a belief. However, many do not share your view that this is the case. In many peoples eyes, the book/tome referred to, is just that - a book, an object with no significance regardless of what mystic attributes some believe it may have.

It would seem that perhaps you are mildly superstitions and do not like the connotations of this item. It would be my advice that you refrain from acquiring this within the game for best results.

[Tasida.4085]

> @Rawr.9467 said:

> People will complain about anything these days.

 

This!!!! OP just play the game and enjoy it for the distraction that it is....seriously.

[Sacretes.7432]

> @Zaklex.6308 said:

> > @Dashingsteel.3410 said:

> > Exactly, so why name the book the Ars Goetia? Why have any connection at all. Why is the Ars Geotia getting this homage? Why is Anet giving a shout out to a book about demon summoning?

>

> You are literally making an issue out of nothing, I'll bet 99% of GW2 players wouldn't even know it was connected to a real world item, but thanks to you, now everyone that frequents the forums will know. Next time, think before posting something like this...if you don't like the name because of it being connected to something you perceive as bad in the real world, don't post about it and let everyone else know.

 

YUP! This. I literally had no idea and would have never connected the two. I assumed the name was some made up thing.

[Murphin.6187]

A. Crowley and his legacy are litteraly being worshipped through media "pop" culture industry, cinema music and video games of course. This is factual. I think they are deeper goals than money (which is a way) behind most of big companies if not all of them, and not especially virtuous ones. Like insidiously promote some kind of stuff that you would firmly condamn if only you knew about it. Making you spend hours and hours playing games that put you away from reality (from yourself), the acceptance of virtual reality and living by proxy is a phenomenon that has been exponentially growing in the last centuries. I often remember of La Boétie in his "Discours sur la servitude volontaire" on how ppl actually were so easily trapped in being slaves with their own consentment. These are the times we are living, getting into virtuality and "fantasy" can alas be very subversive since it can be promoting stuff that ethically should not be (like making the player really happy and glad to own the Ars Goetia as a very powerful and cool item.) I believe that this way to do is intentional and isn't harmless. I've been playing alot of video games and it took me years before I eventually became able to figure that out.

Stuff associated with evil and demons should remain opposed to the player and not become source of power and satisfaction to him, fantasy or not. Necromancers should be ennemies in the game and you should not be tempted to play as one. This is my opinion, I perfectly understand it can be hard to consider, and I'd be glad to discuss it. It is indeed changing the way I live. I have been paying attention to Bethesda games for instance ( been a huge fan of TES) and it is fascinating while kinda frightnening. References to mind control (monarch butterflies in skyrim, most poweful artefacts being those of the dark brotherhood where you have to act really bad, same for the deadras questlines, humans sacrifices, cannibalism etc.). I could develop about this during hours. How and to what extent we are being deceived. I wanted to share some other crowley references I've found in video games for instance this one in WoW, you might be interested : https://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=18362.

Here is also a testimony from Clint Richardson who has been working as a sound designer on many famous games :

 

Thank you for reading,

 

love from France.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Murphin.6187" said:

> A. Crowley and his legacy are litteraly being worshipped through media "pop" culture industry, cinema music and video games of course. This is factual.

Nope, it's an opinion based on conclusions largely not supported by evidence.

 

A bunch of old white men wrote fantasy fiction in the middle ages under the guise of discussing the evils of Satan. [One guy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Weyer) collected a bunch of that into a fantasy anthology in the 16th century and Crowley stole it for his own aggrandizement at the turn of the previous century. Some people have continue the tradition of treating this sort of thing as fiction (AD&D's monster compendia and the like) and some have used it for their own ends to create cults or cult-like scams to divest people of their wallets.

 

Re-appropriating the names is a much better way of dumping Crowley and successors than is fleeing from the words in terror as if they have any real meaning.

[Ayakaru.6583]

((( Should someone tell OP there’s an armament in Kryta called the Seraph? )))

[Tsakhi.8124]

All right, I'm trying to contribute and not just state my frustrations. You know who came up with the concepts of good and evil, right? Mankind, the victors, those that stubbornly cling to their choices as "right" and will do anything to prove that...even creating their own "evil". In all honesty, I think people label things so they don't lose track of them. What I see as "evil" may be perfectly acceptable in another place and time. *shrug* I honestly don't see why this is such a big deal.

[lokh.2695]

Wow...this thread still going strong I see...

So many things have been pointed out so far:

1) The fantasy genre draws its inspiration from lots of real world beliefs, legends, epics and history. Some of these stories, legends hold more relevance today as they managed to find their way into establishe religion for example.

2) Nothing comes from nothing. It comes across odd and feels very synthetic, when a fantasy world tries to invent the wheel anew. It gets needlessly complicated when swords aren't called "swords" but "chorruli", when you don't "attack" a "foe" but "warund" a "moonas".

3) OP's defense, that it has nothing to do with the item itself but only with how unimaginative it is to name ingame items after real world things, comes across very weak when these references were part of the game since the beginning of GW1. It still smells a lot like satanic panic, right there and it seems OP is one of the few christian believers that are totally ok with the fantasy genre, you know, elves, dwarves, magic and dragons, but since "the devils is real" referencing anything like the Ars Goetia, the Necronomicon or Alyster Crowley are bad, because they're not fantasy.

 

Now, I don't want to belittle nyones beliefs here, just to get that out of the way. If the christian faith is what you place your bet on, I'm fine and if you ask me, we'll see who pulled the jackpot when it ends. But as much as I don't want to tell OP that believing the devil is real is stupid or anything, I don't want OP to tell me or ANet what is ok to reference and what is not. Just tell me OP, why is it this particular item that gets you all riled up? Why is fighting Abaddon ok, but crafting the Ars Goetia isn't? How will having this item in the game draw people to the occult, but having the Bifrost in the game won't draw anyone into norse mytology and paganism? Why is it ok to join the Seraph? What's the difference between referencing a 17th century book on christian demons and referencing man-eating tigers? Why is christian demonology a no-go but hindi demons as playable race and japanese/shinto demons as a sentient race of tyria are not even worth a mentioning?

 

If you find it bad to use the item in question because it depicts something evil IN YOUR EYES, don't use it. Craft the other legendary focus, the Minstrel ;) I'm ok when you make that decission for yourself. I had a friend who also liked fantasy and games and all but was also a deeply faithful christian, whenever a game gave you the option to either use demonic or divine magic, he always went with the divine, but it was his decission and he never told me that I, in my game that I play, Ishouldn't go the dark route because "it's evil". As I said, it's a private matter what you believe and what leads you through your life and he understood that.

[DreamyAbaddon.3265]

> @"Squee.7829" said:

> I hate to be the one to tell you this, but literally every thing you read in fantasy has been done and referenced before. Most often by people who actually believed in it. From Tolkien to Tyria. Elves, dwarves, etc. Common tropes in 90% of fantasy is old Nordic religion. Djinn, genies, old Arabic religions. Faeries, old European (Celts, gauls, etc.)

>

> Even the names. Abaddon, Balthazar, think of any name in any story and its almost a sure bet that name is lifted from an obsolete religion or folk hero. This is literally no different. The writer might have once believed in demons and whatnot, but the fact is, it's fantasy now.

 

This is 100% true.

If you think fantasy doesn't borrow stories from mythology and pagan origins then you have been living under the rock. All fantasy stories you have read is all pagan origin from the real world. If you prefer to be ignorant then so be it but don't blame developers for your ignorance. If you hate it so much stop playing fantasy games or watching fantasy movies.

[DreamyAbaddon.3265]

> @"Squee.7829" said:

> The Vedas are still 100% relevant to the world today. They're still a thing that exist. I'd argue Ars Goetia is not. Just like the necronomicon, 99.9% of Christians will not believe in it. It's something you'll only find in the hands of edgy goth kids and people dumb enough to believe in occultism.

>

> Which, by the way, occultism is not dangerous. I don't know where you got the idea they were. Just as gypsies curses are not dangerous. Never have been. Because they rely on powers that are. Not. Real. Might be dangerous to some poor neighbors cat or goat, but have literally no affects on people.

 

People who study occultism are far from "dumb". They are very intelligent individuals who seek knowledge from within and through out. Occult simply means hidden knowledge. The idea is you are constantly learning as you're going. I know this cause I have background in it and I'm not a goth. It's not about being edgy, it's about self-exploration through the hidden and unexplored part of one's own mind, body and soul as the same for the world itself. Also there is a lot you can learn from mythology and ancient cultures. You don't have to believe any of it to understand the meaning behind it.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Dashingsteel.3410" said:

> There is a spelling difference between Asuras and Asurans.

In both cases the plural of Asura is The **Asura**. Not Asuras (contrary to how sometimes americans use to spell it), and definitely not Asurans.

 

> @"Dashingsteel.3410" said:

> I believe those that pursue dark forces are evil. Alister Crowly who revised this book in the 20th century was known as the most wicked man alive.

I bet that he actually wasn't. The most wicked man alive, that is. Especially in 20th century, that was full of wicked men. Most of whose didn't write any satanic books (though i do kind of remember one that did write a book that is generally well known nowadays)

 

> @"Dashingsteel.3410" said:

> okay... one more time.... A game that takes place in an imaginary world where characters do imaginary things is quite different from a real world where people attempt to do evil things.

Occultism by itself is not really evil, because it's just fiction. Some of the actions associated with it _might_ be, but "summoning demons" and "reading books (no matter the book title)" aren't such actions.

 

> @"Dashingsteel.3410" said:

> So why associate a game item with a real item that represents evil?

"Represents evil"? How? It doesn't - unless you believe that what's in written in it is true, demons and black magic do exist, and even referencing said book can stain your soul. Most people happen to not believe in that however (that actually includes most Christians nowadays, by the way)

 

> @"Dashingsteel.3410" said:

> I guess Abbadon, Zhaitan etc. didn't bother me as much because even though they had connections they were portrayed as evil and were opposed by the players. In the case of the Ars Goetia, you have some real world evil that is portrayed as beneficial for the players(legendary weapon).

>

You haven't seen the abaddon glider, then? the one that makes you surrender your body to being manipulated like a puppet by an ancient evil?