shadowpass.4236 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > as some astute person already noticed, you tend to like to attack people to discredit their ideas when you want to avoid addressing direct questions posed to you ... This "astute person" you're mentioning (Raizel.8175) also happened to write a lengthy post completely disagreeing with what you had to say. Astute is defined as: "having or showing an ability to accurately assess situations or people." Hence, by calling the person who disagreed with you, "astute," you're admitting you're wrong. LUL I've failed to address direct questions? Quote them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > Throwing around ad hominem won't help the discussion... > > > > I gave you a thumbs up and completely agree with what you said because you pretty much hit the nail on its head. > > > > However, I'm done arguing with someone who: > > - Continues to contradict themselves in every post > > - Refuses to actually cite any official sources/developer responses to back up their claims > > - Repeatedly citing the lack of resources/practicality (where did they get this information from) as the reason for saying that asking for fairness is wrong > > But insulting people still isn't a solution. People have different opinions. Either they agree on a consensus or not. That's how the world works. No need to get rude and insult someone just because s/he has a different opinion. I also don't necessarily agree with her/him. I'd be content with reaching a consesus where raid-accessibility should be improved though. Opinions are one thing. Flat out saying things such as, "The proof is in the lack of proof." is nonsensical _at best_. As always, the burden of proof lies with the claimant. They claimed that the lack of practicality and resources was the reason behind their statements, yet they have failed time and time again to cite any official sources as proof. Do you realize how little sense it makes when they admit that the lack of proof is the proof behind their claims? With that being said, I _do_ agree with you. I'm just fed up after spending hours responding to someone who doesn't make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > I don't need to cite a developer ... the fact we don't have it is proof enough. > > "The lack of proof is the proof." - Obtena > > Hence why I say you're contradictory and insane. So I'm insane because I understand that Anet doesn't have an army of devs just sitting around waiting for the green light to implement good ideas? I'm contradictory because I have a consistent message of practical limitations vs. fairness? I guess a 'THANKS' is in order. :+1: > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > Throwing around ad hominem won't help the discussion... > > > > I gave you a thumbs up and completely agree with what you said because you pretty much hit the nail on its head. > > > > However, I'm done arguing with someone who: > > - Continues to contradict themselves in every post > > - Refuses to actually cite any official sources/developer responses to back up their claims > > - Repeatedly citing the lack of resources/practicality (where did they get this information from) as the reason for saying that asking for fairness is wrong > > But insulting people still isn't a solution. People have different opinions. Either they agree on a consensus or not. That's how the world works. No need to get rude and insult someone just because s/he has a different opinion. I also don't necessarily agree with her/him. I'd be content with reaching a consesus where raid-accessibility should be improved though. Personally, I would rather see Leg. Armor implemented in WvW somehow, though I think it would be severely lacking in equality vs. obtaining through a raid. Sort of like we have seen with crafted legendary vs. the old school way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > > > There's a reason why the OP has over 100 thumbs ups in a single post while you have over 900 posts and only 600 thumbs ups. Obviously, people don't generally agree with what you have to say, or, find it so pointless talking to you because you make so little sense that they cease to do so at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... It's irrelevant who agrees with what I have to say ... It's not a contest. 'Winning the interwebs" with thumbs ups doesn't mean we will get multiple paths ... or that anyone is even right. That's not a realistic view of how to make a compelling argument for what you want. You continue to ignore the fact that multiple paths is a practical issue, not a moral one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It may not be a contest, but it is a pretty good indicator of where the majority of opinions lie. Many people agree with what the OP is saying. Not many people agree with what you have to say. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again ... it's irrelevant with who is thumbs uping who ... that's not a compelling argument. This isn't a morality issue, it's a practical one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know why Anet put legendary armor in raids ... where it was placed is not about 'fairness' or disrespect to people that don't want to do raids. If it wasn't about fairness in the first place, it makes no sense to justify multiple paths because of fairness now. You aren't thinking about the fact this is a business ... there are practical limitations. > > > > > > > > > > > > This whole issue is about fairness. The fact that you're saying otherwise just proves why you have so few thumbs ups in the first place. You don't know what's happening and can't contribute meaningfully. > > > > > > > > > > > > People are saying it's not fair that PvE is getting all of these things while PvP and WvW are left in the dust. It doesn't matter if it's practical or not. This is a big issue and stating that it is not one because it may or may not be practical to implement is foolish. You still have yet to provide proof as to where Anet said this wasn't practical. If you're claiming they did, then the burden of proof lies on you. > > > > > > > > > > This is your biggest problem ... somehow you have convinced yourself that things in MMO are about 'being fair' and that simply isn't the truth of these matters. You need to take a serious look around you. Fairness never was or will be a driving factor for how the game gets implemented; if it was, we wouldn't have this discussion now. There wouldn't be threads about balancing or meta either. There wouldn't be threads about PVP performance. There wouldn't be threads about why certain maps have 'bad' loot. Everywhere you look in the game, in every aspect, you see unequal and unfair implementations; the game is NOT an academic experiment in making a fair MMO game; it's a business. If having everything fair was practical to implement, none of these threads would exist, because on the whole, fairness IS a desirable feature to have and Anet would have done it. Unfortunately, there **are** many practical reasons that prevent such worthy, desired implementations from getting ingame. Ignoring the reality of this truth doesn't not make your case for multiple paths. > > > > > > > > > > The proof is easy ... we don't have all of these desirable, fair elements in the game. If Anet had infinitely deep resources, the conversation would be different and it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect a larger distribution of fair elements. The reality is that resources are finite; a practical consideration when deciding what needs to be done. Ignoring this is just a lack of understanding or appreciation for the fact this is a business. > > > > > > > > Fairness is quite literally what Guild Wars 2 is built around. It was designed around no gear grind, no specific roles, everyone can do everything and anything they want. Maybe this isn't the case for other MMOs, but Guild Wars 2 tried to market itself around this concept. > > > > > > > > I hope you realize you are contradicting and arguing against yourself in the same post. > > > > You say, "Fairness was never a factor in MMOs." > > > > Then follow it with, "If fairness was a factor, there wouldn't be any threads citing issues on balance/meta/PvP performance etc. etc." > > > > > > > > You're essentially saying that the game isn't fair and that's why there are so many issues. And that's completely correct... You've stated both the problem and its source. Yet, your stance on this topic seems to be that fairness is bad and that all these problems are okay? It doesn't make sense to me. > > > > > > > No, that's just how you are reading into it ... I'm saying it's the reality of the game ... and many others, because they are constrained by resources. You see GW2 built around fairness? If it is, Anet does a terrible job implementing it .... I've given many examples, non-trivial, where lack of fairness is quite evident. I'm sure there are many more. Just out of pure interest, I would love to hear what you see that convinces you otherwise. > > > > > > Again, this isn't about what's right or wrong, it's about what is practical on the business side. > > > > > > > > > > It seems like you have the tendency to extremely misunderstand everything you read. It doesn't matter what anyone says, you twist their words (or genuinely cannot understand what they're saying) to fit your interests. You respond with things that are completely unrelated or out-of-the-blue to the current discussion and continue to put words into other people's mouths. > > > > I don't see the point in arguing with someone who doesn't make sense. Nor do I feel like talking with someone trapped in their own delusions. > > > > As I've said previously... > > > > Instead of: > > > > - "Legendary armor skins are exclusive to PvE." - Everyone > > - "No they aren't, because people aren't excluded from raids." - Obtena > > - "Lolwut" - Everyone > > > > It's now: > > > > - "The lack of fairness is a problem." - Everyone > > - "The lack of fairness is **the** problem but at the same time it's not a problem (lolwut) because of the lack of practicality and resources." - Obtena > > - "This person is actually insane." - Everyone > > I have not strayed from my position ONCE in this thread; what you are demonstrating here is just your self-serving interpretation to attempt to make me look like a flake, which I can't be bothered to continually correct you on; it has no bearing on this discussion and is a diversion tactic ... as some astute person already noticed, you tend to like to attack people to discredit their ideas when you want to avoid addressing direct questions posed to you ... and I'm not at all surprised because your answers are shallow and seem to be ignoring the game as a business, not an experiment in player satisfaction. > > My position is clear; the implementation of multiple paths is limited by practical realities of the game, not about fairness. That includes the position I have that ANYONE can raid to get legendary armor (which is ironically, quite fair). Those are NOT mutually exclusive or contradictory positions or statements. Don't bother mate. He's just going to continue making ridiculous claims and absurd comparisons, all it takes to not admit he's utterly wrong. Though I must say, speaking of himself as "everyone" was a new trick that made me LOL again. Just consider him a comedian and laugh. It's the best you can do. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > I don't need to cite a developer ... the fact we don't have it is proof enough. > > > > "The lack of proof is the proof." - Obtena > > > > Hence why I say you're contradictory and insane. > > So I'm insane because I understand that Anet doesn't have an army of devs just sitting around waiting for the green light to implement good ideas? I'm contradictory because I have a consistent message of practical limitations vs. fairness? I guess a 'THANKS' is in order. :+1: Again, you seem to have the tendency to extremely misunderstand everything you read. I specifically stated that you make no sense because you repeatedly contradict yourself. I didn't mention anything about how "Anet doesn't have an army of devs waiting implement good ideas" yet you act as if those words came from my mouth. You're contradictory because you contradict yourself. There's no other reason. You still fail to quote any direct questions I've failed to answer, or any official sources to back up your claims that the reason there aren't multiple paths is due to the lack of resources and practicality. Your entire argument is empty and hollow and just consists of you spewing out random reasons you've conjured up in your own head as fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 The implication is enough. If Anet has the resources, they would use them. If multiple paths was the number #1 awesome idea, those resources would be used to implement it; that's a practical, business consideration, not one based on fairness. Fairness might get you to the table, but it don't get you much farther. At this point, I'm afraid that simple concepts are elusive and this is a detriment to including you in the discussion. No problem. I have a solution for that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > > > > There's a reason why the OP has over 100 thumbs ups in a single post while you have over 900 posts and only 600 thumbs ups. Obviously, people don't generally agree with what you have to say, or, find it so pointless talking to you because you make so little sense that they cease to do so at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... It's irrelevant who agrees with what I have to say ... It's not a contest. 'Winning the interwebs" with thumbs ups doesn't mean we will get multiple paths ... or that anyone is even right. That's not a realistic view of how to make a compelling argument for what you want. You continue to ignore the fact that multiple paths is a practical issue, not a moral one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It may not be a contest, but it is a pretty good indicator of where the majority of opinions lie. Many people agree with what the OP is saying. Not many people agree with what you have to say. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again ... it's irrelevant with who is thumbs uping who ... that's not a compelling argument. This isn't a morality issue, it's a practical one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know why Anet put legendary armor in raids ... where it was placed is not about 'fairness' or disrespect to people that don't want to do raids. If it wasn't about fairness in the first place, it makes no sense to justify multiple paths because of fairness now. You aren't thinking about the fact this is a business ... there are practical limitations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This whole issue is about fairness. The fact that you're saying otherwise just proves why you have so few thumbs ups in the first place. You don't know what's happening and can't contribute meaningfully. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People are saying it's not fair that PvE is getting all of these things while PvP and WvW are left in the dust. It doesn't matter if it's practical or not. This is a big issue and stating that it is not one because it may or may not be practical to implement is foolish. You still have yet to provide proof as to where Anet said this wasn't practical. If you're claiming they did, then the burden of proof lies on you. > > > > > > > > > > > > This is your biggest problem ... somehow you have convinced yourself that things in MMO are about 'being fair' and that simply isn't the truth of these matters. You need to take a serious look around you. Fairness never was or will be a driving factor for how the game gets implemented; if it was, we wouldn't have this discussion now. There wouldn't be threads about balancing or meta either. There wouldn't be threads about PVP performance. There wouldn't be threads about why certain maps have 'bad' loot. Everywhere you look in the game, in every aspect, you see unequal and unfair implementations; the game is NOT an academic experiment in making a fair MMO game; it's a business. If having everything fair was practical to implement, none of these threads would exist, because on the whole, fairness IS a desirable feature to have and Anet would have done it. Unfortunately, there **are** many practical reasons that prevent such worthy, desired implementations from getting ingame. Ignoring the reality of this truth doesn't not make your case for multiple paths. > > > > > > > > > > > > The proof is easy ... we don't have all of these desirable, fair elements in the game. If Anet had infinitely deep resources, the conversation would be different and it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect a larger distribution of fair elements. The reality is that resources are finite; a practical consideration when deciding what needs to be done. Ignoring this is just a lack of understanding or appreciation for the fact this is a business. > > > > > > > > > > Fairness is quite literally what Guild Wars 2 is built around. It was designed around no gear grind, no specific roles, everyone can do everything and anything they want. Maybe this isn't the case for other MMOs, but Guild Wars 2 tried to market itself around this concept. > > > > > > > > > > I hope you realize you are contradicting and arguing against yourself in the same post. > > > > > You say, "Fairness was never a factor in MMOs." > > > > > Then follow it with, "If fairness was a factor, there wouldn't be any threads citing issues on balance/meta/PvP performance etc. etc." > > > > > > > > > > You're essentially saying that the game isn't fair and that's why there are so many issues. And that's completely correct... You've stated both the problem and its source. Yet, your stance on this topic seems to be that fairness is bad and that all these problems are okay? It doesn't make sense to me. > > > > > > > > > No, that's just how you are reading into it ... I'm saying it's the reality of the game ... and many others, because they are constrained by resources. You see GW2 built around fairness? If it is, Anet does a terrible job implementing it .... I've given many examples, non-trivial, where lack of fairness is quite evident. I'm sure there are many more. Just out of pure interest, I would love to hear what you see that convinces you otherwise. > > > > > > > > Again, this isn't about what's right or wrong, it's about what is practical on the business side. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It seems like you have the tendency to extremely misunderstand everything you read. It doesn't matter what anyone says, you twist their words (or genuinely cannot understand what they're saying) to fit your interests. You respond with things that are completely unrelated or out-of-the-blue to the current discussion and continue to put words into other people's mouths. > > > > > > I don't see the point in arguing with someone who doesn't make sense. Nor do I feel like talking with someone trapped in their own delusions. > > > > > > As I've said previously... > > > > > > Instead of: > > > > > > - "Legendary armor skins are exclusive to PvE." - Everyone > > > - "No they aren't, because people aren't excluded from raids." - Obtena > > > - "Lolwut" - Everyone > > > > > > It's now: > > > > > > - "The lack of fairness is a problem." - Everyone > > > - "The lack of fairness is **the** problem but at the same time it's not a problem (lolwut) because of the lack of practicality and resources." - Obtena > > > - "This person is actually insane." - Everyone > > > > I have not strayed from my position ONCE in this thread; what you are demonstrating here is just your self-serving interpretation to attempt to make me look like a flake, which I can't be bothered to continually correct you on; it has no bearing on this discussion and is a diversion tactic ... as some astute person already noticed, you tend to like to attack people to discredit their ideas when you want to avoid addressing direct questions posed to you ... and I'm not at all surprised because your answers are shallow and seem to be ignoring the game as a business, not an experiment in player satisfaction. > > > > My position is clear; the implementation of multiple paths is limited by practical realities of the game, not about fairness. That includes the position I have that ANYONE can raid to get legendary armor (which is ironically, quite fair). Those are NOT mutually exclusive or contradictory positions or statements. > > Don't bother mate. He's just going to continue making ridiculous claims and absurd comparisons, all it takes to not admit he's utterly wrong. Though I must say, speaking of himself as "everyone" was a new trick that made me LOL again. Just consider him a comedian and laugh. It's the best you can do. ;) Quote my ridiculous claims and absurd comparisons. While you're at it, quote me on my exaggerations. I've asked you to do so in nearly every reply yet (for some odd reason) you refuse to. If I had indeed done these things you've _claimed_ I've done, then it would be easy to simply go back and find them. The burden of proof lies on the claimant, thus, by refusing, you're committing a [logical fallacy](https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof). :) Now of course, if you (or anyone else for that matter) do happen to provide a direct quote from me that proves your claims, I'll happily admit I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > The implication is enough. If Anet has the resources, they would use them. If multiple paths was the number #1 awesome idea, those resources would be used to implement it; that's a practical, business consideration, not one based on fairness. Fairness might get you to the table, but it don't get you much farther. At this point, I'm afraid that simple concepts are elusive and this is a detriment to including you in the discussion. No problem. I have a solution for that too. The implication is not enough. If you cannot provide any official examples or cite any developer responses on your claims, you're wrong. You've claimed that Arenanet hasn't implemented multiple paths because of the lack of resources and practicality. Do yourself a favor and don't fall victim to [burden of proof](https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof) by refusing/failing to provide any substantial evidence behind them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > >it's the deviation from the foundation principals of this game that are the problem. > > > > > > It's called "evolution". Or if you prefer "adaptability". Through the years ANet have tried different approaches in various aspects of the game - trait system, reward structures, endgame content, even monetization. They drop some, they introduce some, they change some. That's a normal process for a game of 5+ years. You can't expect game design from before 2012 to work the same way in 2018. The market changes, the players' expectation change, and so does the design philosophy. > > > > This is not really true, see, a game (or anything for that matter) only needs to "evolve" as you put it, if what they were doing was not working, so they would only need to change design direction if their design was failing. Which is why things like Sharks and Jellyfish have not needed to evolve over their millions of years, anyone could tell you that it's a bad idea to mess with what is working. > > > > Well.. "evolving" as you put it cost them around 25 Million in annual Sales (and I'm being real nice with this number to show minimal impact). But that is also how Evolution Works sometimes, it's called _survival of the fittest_ after all, and in a world of WoW Clones, moving away from your Foundation Design Philosophy of being the game for "**everyone else**" and taking pride in _not being a WoW Clone_ to then evolve into becoming a WoW Clone in a market saturated with WoW Clones.. Well, in the end of things, No one ever said Evolution was Intelligent Design. > > Evolution is a process driven mostly by changing conditions. Which is true in this case - the game market is changing, and is changing a lot over 5+ years. What you say is true if you're top of the food chain, but see, that only applies to specific niches. Like sharks, or, say, Minecraft. A MMO usually tries NOT to be niche *on purpose*. They generally rely on large playerbase and large revenues, needed to cover their large development and support costs. > > Furthermore, you're drawing wrong conclusions based on their earning reports. A decline in sales is normal. Nothing keeps the same revenues it get at launch, **nothing**. Even subscription-based games will show a decline in revenue as they age. (By the way the subscription model is a nice example of evolution, as MMOs at large dropped it and in some cases converted to microtransactions). So no. ANet's decisions and adaptability have kept GW2 in business and in good shape. You can find many MMOs which launched after it and are already de facto dead. LOL, first off, No,.., WoW had better sales the year after launch then it did at launch. In fact WoW launched with under 100K subscribers, and 4 years later it was tipping the scales at 10 Million subs. So.. you're very.. very.. wrong about the launch sales and continual decline following, it is simply not true at all, it's a fable at best. Truth is, like it or not, that WoW was not some single unique case, as EQ did the same thing, and so did other games like Ultima Online, Second Life, EvE.. even Lineage (which is an NCsoft game, figured I'd include that) was doing better years after launch.. and that is just to name a few.. there are many more.. but I hope I made my point. Also, I when I said I was being **Kind** to show a minimal impact, I meant that I _did not add in the Launch sales of Core_, if I had done that,. it would have been a average of 35 Million Annual Loss.. so.. yah.. I was being **Kind** to show minimal impact, and it's still 25 million. So.. No.. in fact, the shape of this game post HoT and Raids is that of continual decline, Which as irony would have it, was not the case pre-HoT. So yes.. they are doing something wrong at this point.. or more aptly.. they did something very wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > You won't continue because you _can't_. > > > > > > > > > > > > Well yeah. After you insist to call a game mode "1/3rd" despite huge differences in player base, content updates and whatnot, there really isn't much I *can* do beside offering a metaphor illustrating the absurdity of your claim (which you ignored). > > > > > > > > > > There are 3 gamemodes. PvE is one of them. Hence it is 1 out of the 3 gamemodes. It's really quite simple. Just because one gamemode has a higher population doesn't make it "more" of a gamemode than another. > > > > > > > > > > So what is PvE then? 83.4/100th of a gamemode? LUL > > > > > > > > > > > Your position is so far off any game design reality that there simply isn't any base for a debate. > > > > > > > > > > This is what I'm talking about, you have nothing else to add. The fact that you consider PvE "more" of a gamemode than the others simply because of a higher population, coupled with the fact that you can't seem to understand that legendary armor skins are exclusive to PvE, just serves to prove how little sense you actually make. > > > > > > > > **I never said it's because of higher population**. The higher population is a result, not a cause. The cause is the overall design of the game. It has much, MUCH more content in PvE than anything else. Upon character creation you're dropped into short PvE instance which serves as a basic tutorial and is followed up by your personal story, which, again, is PvE. Under the normal levelling experience, WvW is introduced as late as level 60 and PvP at level 80. The major updates the game receives, the expansions and the Living World Seasons, extend the personal story and the open world of the game, PvE features. Really, it's not that hard to put it all together. It's a PvE game. Yes, it *supports* two pvp game modes, and even does pretty well in them. But to expect them to be treated on even grounds with PvE is unrealistic and naive. That's not the intent of the game, it never was, and it won't be. > > > > > > Yes you did. > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > You won't continue because you _can't_. > > > > > > > > Well yeah. **After you insist to call a game mode "1/3rd" despite huge differences in player base**, content updates and whatnot, there really isn't much I *can* do beside offering a metaphor illustrating the absurdity of your claim (which you ignored). > > > > > > You also said it's because of content updates and "whatnot." > > > > > > > > > > > **Oh, and before I forget again, your made-up term "legendary skin".** There's no such thing in this game. There's legendary gear, the defining feature of which is the ability to stat-swap on demand. Access to this function on armor *IS* available through both sPvP and WvW. Fact. And there are the exclusive skins, which may or may not be tied to said function. Exclusive skins are found everywhere, across all 3 game modes, and outside of them, in the gemstore. You're just making up an excuse because for some reason you decided you're entitled to get a specific exclusive skin without playing the respective content. It would be *exactly* the same if I was asking for The Ascension to be obtainable through, say, world bosses in open world. It doesn't matter that there's Ad Infinitum, because I'm asking for the specific skin - *exactly* what you do. The only difference is, I actually don't. Because I'm well aware of the need of exclusive rewards. > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Legendary_armor > > > > > > Taken from the Official Guild Wars 2 Wiki on Legendary Armor, "Acquisition of the **PvE sets with their unique skins** is linked to raids..." > > > > > > "Made-up term" LUL > > > > > > The legendary backpieces aren't an issue because: > > > - PvE has Ad Infinitum > > > - PvP has The Ascension > > > - WvW has Warbringer > > > > > > Everyone is happy because they all have their own legendary backpieces exclusive to their respective gamemodes. However, there is only _one_ way to obtain the legendary armor skins, and that is through PvE. Thus, WvWers and PvPers are left out/upset/excluded/-insert synonym for dissatisfied here-. > > > > > > > > > > > But you're entirely right that I have nothing to add. All this I've told time and again. And it gets ignored, as I'm sure it will get ignored again. **Because you're not looking for a debate. You're looking for free shinies.** However, this game, like any successful game, is ran by people who actually understand game design. So you won't be getting your free shinies. Deal with it. > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > I'd be more than happy to continue debating this topic with you. > > > > > > Quote me saying that I'm looking for free shinies. You're literally making things up and putting words into my mouth to make up for the fact that the only thing you've been saying this entire time is, "You're wrong." Yet you've failed time and time again to actually prove it. > > > > > > Quote me where I'm exaggerating. > > > > > > Quote me on my absurd claims. > > > > > > You can't. > > > > 1. Nice cherry picking. Also, strawman. I was listing obvious indications, I didn't say I was listing reasons. :) > > Nice. I cherry picked the fact that you said (that you never said) that pve is more than 1/3 of the available gamemodes due to it having a higher population. So yes, I cherry picked out a blantant lie and supported it with a quote from you that proved me correct. > > It's not strawman when I didn't misrepresent your argument in any way. I literally quoted you as the response. LUL so if you're saying what I quoted is strawman, you're calling yourself a liar. > > > 2. I still don't see anywhere the term "legendary skin". I see "legendary armor" and "unique skin", but not "legendary skin". :) > > I think if you were to go into LA map chat and say that legendary skins don't exist, you'd be laughed out of the game. Legendary skins clearly exist and the fact that you say otherwise just proves how delusional you are. > > > 3. It's almost like PvE has Envoy, WvW has Sublime Misforged and PvP has Ardent Glorious Armor. What a shocking coincidence! :lol: > > Ardent Glorious Armor is just a reskin of Glorious Hero Armor. It looks almost completely identical. Sublime Mistforged is a reskin of the Triumphant Hero Armor (again, almost completely identical) with only the chest piece having an added effect. > > My point still stands. The only way to obtain PvE exclusive legendary armor skins is through PvE. The other 2 gamemodes do not have access to the transforming effects as what's available are essentially lazy reskins of already existing ones. > > > 4. Nah, I won't bother. It's all there already. > > Exactly. You can't quote me because there isn't any. Called it. :] > > Just saying "it's there," doesn't mean it actually is. Burden of proof lies with the claimant, not the defender. Thus, saying that I'm exaggerating and incorrect, then failing to provide _any_ proof or quotes as to why it is so, is one of the _biggest_ logical fallacies. It's too bad you're entire argument sucks, hence why you can't actually provide a single piece of evidence to back up your claims. The skins you have for the spvp and wvw legendary upgrades are excluseive to those game modes aswell come again with something else please. The fact that you can get the same skins as ascended dont matter its still exlusive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > There's a reason why the OP has over 100 thumbs ups in a single post while you have over 900 posts and only 600 thumbs ups. Obviously, people don't generally agree with what you have to say, or, find it so pointless talking to you because you make so little sense that they cease to do so at all. > > > > ... It's irrelevant who agrees with what I have to say ... It's not a contest. 'Winning the interwebs" with thumbs ups doesn't mean we will get multiple paths ... or that anyone is even right. That's not a realistic view of how to make a compelling argument for what you want. You continue to ignore the fact that multiple paths is a practical issue, not a moral one. > > > > > > It may not be a contest, but it is a pretty good indicator of where the majority of opinions lie. Many people agree with what the OP is saying. Not many people agree with what you have to say. > > It may not mean we will get multiple paths, but affording the ability to acquire special skins exclusive to each gamemode is healthy and the right way to proceed with things. > > PvE has continual updates, each providing exclusive skins and other rewards to _that_ gamemode ONLY. PvP and WvW receive neither of these. We're only asking to be treated the same. It's not fair to ignore 2/3 of the gamemodes. no becouse we dont havea thumb down anymore so we cant see how many disagree so saying 100 thumbs up is a good indicator is not possible mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 > @"Linken.6345" said: > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > You won't continue because you _can't_. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well yeah. After you insist to call a game mode "1/3rd" despite huge differences in player base, content updates and whatnot, there really isn't much I *can* do beside offering a metaphor illustrating the absurdity of your claim (which you ignored). > > > > > > > > > > > > There are 3 gamemodes. PvE is one of them. Hence it is 1 out of the 3 gamemodes. It's really quite simple. Just because one gamemode has a higher population doesn't make it "more" of a gamemode than another. > > > > > > > > > > > > So what is PvE then? 83.4/100th of a gamemode? LUL > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your position is so far off any game design reality that there simply isn't any base for a debate. > > > > > > > > > > > > This is what I'm talking about, you have nothing else to add. The fact that you consider PvE "more" of a gamemode than the others simply because of a higher population, coupled with the fact that you can't seem to understand that legendary armor skins are exclusive to PvE, just serves to prove how little sense you actually make. > > > > > > > > > > **I never said it's because of higher population**. The higher population is a result, not a cause. The cause is the overall design of the game. It has much, MUCH more content in PvE than anything else. Upon character creation you're dropped into short PvE instance which serves as a basic tutorial and is followed up by your personal story, which, again, is PvE. Under the normal levelling experience, WvW is introduced as late as level 60 and PvP at level 80. The major updates the game receives, the expansions and the Living World Seasons, extend the personal story and the open world of the game, PvE features. Really, it's not that hard to put it all together. It's a PvE game. Yes, it *supports* two pvp game modes, and even does pretty well in them. But to expect them to be treated on even grounds with PvE is unrealistic and naive. That's not the intent of the game, it never was, and it won't be. > > > > > > > > Yes you did. > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > You won't continue because you _can't_. > > > > > > > > > > Well yeah. **After you insist to call a game mode "1/3rd" despite huge differences in player base**, content updates and whatnot, there really isn't much I *can* do beside offering a metaphor illustrating the absurdity of your claim (which you ignored). > > > > > > > > You also said it's because of content updates and "whatnot." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **Oh, and before I forget again, your made-up term "legendary skin".** There's no such thing in this game. There's legendary gear, the defining feature of which is the ability to stat-swap on demand. Access to this function on armor *IS* available through both sPvP and WvW. Fact. And there are the exclusive skins, which may or may not be tied to said function. Exclusive skins are found everywhere, across all 3 game modes, and outside of them, in the gemstore. You're just making up an excuse because for some reason you decided you're entitled to get a specific exclusive skin without playing the respective content. It would be *exactly* the same if I was asking for The Ascension to be obtainable through, say, world bosses in open world. It doesn't matter that there's Ad Infinitum, because I'm asking for the specific skin - *exactly* what you do. The only difference is, I actually don't. Because I'm well aware of the need of exclusive rewards. > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Legendary_armor > > > > > > > > Taken from the Official Guild Wars 2 Wiki on Legendary Armor, "Acquisition of the **PvE sets with their unique skins** is linked to raids..." > > > > > > > > "Made-up term" LUL > > > > > > > > The legendary backpieces aren't an issue because: > > > > - PvE has Ad Infinitum > > > > - PvP has The Ascension > > > > - WvW has Warbringer > > > > > > > > Everyone is happy because they all have their own legendary backpieces exclusive to their respective gamemodes. However, there is only _one_ way to obtain the legendary armor skins, and that is through PvE. Thus, WvWers and PvPers are left out/upset/excluded/-insert synonym for dissatisfied here-. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But you're entirely right that I have nothing to add. All this I've told time and again. And it gets ignored, as I'm sure it will get ignored again. **Because you're not looking for a debate. You're looking for free shinies.** However, this game, like any successful game, is ran by people who actually understand game design. So you won't be getting your free shinies. Deal with it. > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > I'd be more than happy to continue debating this topic with you. > > > > > > > > Quote me saying that I'm looking for free shinies. You're literally making things up and putting words into my mouth to make up for the fact that the only thing you've been saying this entire time is, "You're wrong." Yet you've failed time and time again to actually prove it. > > > > > > > > Quote me where I'm exaggerating. > > > > > > > > Quote me on my absurd claims. > > > > > > > > You can't. > > > > > > 1. Nice cherry picking. Also, strawman. I was listing obvious indications, I didn't say I was listing reasons. :) > > > > Nice. I cherry picked the fact that you said (that you never said) that pve is more than 1/3 of the available gamemodes due to it having a higher population. So yes, I cherry picked out a blantant lie and supported it with a quote from you that proved me correct. > > > > It's not strawman when I didn't misrepresent your argument in any way. I literally quoted you as the response. LUL so if you're saying what I quoted is strawman, you're calling yourself a liar. > > > > > 2. I still don't see anywhere the term "legendary skin". I see "legendary armor" and "unique skin", but not "legendary skin". :) > > > > I think if you were to go into LA map chat and say that legendary skins don't exist, you'd be laughed out of the game. Legendary skins clearly exist and the fact that you say otherwise just proves how delusional you are. > > > > > 3. It's almost like PvE has Envoy, WvW has Sublime Misforged and PvP has Ardent Glorious Armor. What a shocking coincidence! :lol: > > > > Ardent Glorious Armor is just a reskin of Glorious Hero Armor. It looks almost completely identical. Sublime Mistforged is a reskin of the Triumphant Hero Armor (again, almost completely identical) with only the chest piece having an added effect. > > > > My point still stands. The only way to obtain PvE exclusive legendary armor skins is through PvE. The other 2 gamemodes do not have access to the transforming effects as what's available are essentially lazy reskins of already existing ones. > > > > > 4. Nah, I won't bother. It's all there already. > > > > Exactly. You can't quote me because there isn't any. Called it. :] > > > > Just saying "it's there," doesn't mean it actually is. Burden of proof lies with the claimant, not the defender. Thus, saying that I'm exaggerating and incorrect, then failing to provide _any_ proof or quotes as to why it is so, is one of the _biggest_ logical fallacies. It's too bad you're entire argument sucks, hence why you can't actually provide a single piece of evidence to back up your claims. > > The skins you have for the spvp and wvw legendary upgrades are excluseive to those game modes aswell come again with something else please. > The fact that you can get the same skins as ascended dont matter its still exlusive. Yes the skins are exclusive to their game mode, but you have got to admit it's really cheeky that they did not get any kind of graphical upgrade going to legendary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Linken.6345" said: > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > > You won't continue because you _can't_. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well yeah. After you insist to call a game mode "1/3rd" despite huge differences in player base, content updates and whatnot, there really isn't much I *can* do beside offering a metaphor illustrating the absurdity of your claim (which you ignored). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are 3 gamemodes. PvE is one of them. Hence it is 1 out of the 3 gamemodes. It's really quite simple. Just because one gamemode has a higher population doesn't make it "more" of a gamemode than another. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So what is PvE then? 83.4/100th of a gamemode? LUL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your position is so far off any game design reality that there simply isn't any base for a debate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is what I'm talking about, you have nothing else to add. The fact that you consider PvE "more" of a gamemode than the others simply because of a higher population, coupled with the fact that you can't seem to understand that legendary armor skins are exclusive to PvE, just serves to prove how little sense you actually make. > > > > > > > > > > > > **I never said it's because of higher population**. The higher population is a result, not a cause. The cause is the overall design of the game. It has much, MUCH more content in PvE than anything else. Upon character creation you're dropped into short PvE instance which serves as a basic tutorial and is followed up by your personal story, which, again, is PvE. Under the normal levelling experience, WvW is introduced as late as level 60 and PvP at level 80. The major updates the game receives, the expansions and the Living World Seasons, extend the personal story and the open world of the game, PvE features. Really, it's not that hard to put it all together. It's a PvE game. Yes, it *supports* two pvp game modes, and even does pretty well in them. But to expect them to be treated on even grounds with PvE is unrealistic and naive. That's not the intent of the game, it never was, and it won't be. > > > > > > > > > > Yes you did. > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > You won't continue because you _can't_. > > > > > > > > > > > > Well yeah. **After you insist to call a game mode "1/3rd" despite huge differences in player base**, content updates and whatnot, there really isn't much I *can* do beside offering a metaphor illustrating the absurdity of your claim (which you ignored). > > > > > > > > > > You also said it's because of content updates and "whatnot." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **Oh, and before I forget again, your made-up term "legendary skin".** There's no such thing in this game. There's legendary gear, the defining feature of which is the ability to stat-swap on demand. Access to this function on armor *IS* available through both sPvP and WvW. Fact. And there are the exclusive skins, which may or may not be tied to said function. Exclusive skins are found everywhere, across all 3 game modes, and outside of them, in the gemstore. You're just making up an excuse because for some reason you decided you're entitled to get a specific exclusive skin without playing the respective content. It would be *exactly* the same if I was asking for The Ascension to be obtainable through, say, world bosses in open world. It doesn't matter that there's Ad Infinitum, because I'm asking for the specific skin - *exactly* what you do. The only difference is, I actually don't. Because I'm well aware of the need of exclusive rewards. > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Legendary_armor > > > > > > > > > > Taken from the Official Guild Wars 2 Wiki on Legendary Armor, "Acquisition of the **PvE sets with their unique skins** is linked to raids..." > > > > > > > > > > "Made-up term" LUL > > > > > > > > > > The legendary backpieces aren't an issue because: > > > > > - PvE has Ad Infinitum > > > > > - PvP has The Ascension > > > > > - WvW has Warbringer > > > > > > > > > > Everyone is happy because they all have their own legendary backpieces exclusive to their respective gamemodes. However, there is only _one_ way to obtain the legendary armor skins, and that is through PvE. Thus, WvWers and PvPers are left out/upset/excluded/-insert synonym for dissatisfied here-. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But you're entirely right that I have nothing to add. All this I've told time and again. And it gets ignored, as I'm sure it will get ignored again. **Because you're not looking for a debate. You're looking for free shinies.** However, this game, like any successful game, is ran by people who actually understand game design. So you won't be getting your free shinies. Deal with it. > > > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > I'd be more than happy to continue debating this topic with you. > > > > > > > > > > Quote me saying that I'm looking for free shinies. You're literally making things up and putting words into my mouth to make up for the fact that the only thing you've been saying this entire time is, "You're wrong." Yet you've failed time and time again to actually prove it. > > > > > > > > > > Quote me where I'm exaggerating. > > > > > > > > > > Quote me on my absurd claims. > > > > > > > > > > You can't. > > > > > > > > 1. Nice cherry picking. Also, strawman. I was listing obvious indications, I didn't say I was listing reasons. :) > > > > > > Nice. I cherry picked the fact that you said (that you never said) that pve is more than 1/3 of the available gamemodes due to it having a higher population. So yes, I cherry picked out a blantant lie and supported it with a quote from you that proved me correct. > > > > > > It's not strawman when I didn't misrepresent your argument in any way. I literally quoted you as the response. LUL so if you're saying what I quoted is strawman, you're calling yourself a liar. > > > > > > > 2. I still don't see anywhere the term "legendary skin". I see "legendary armor" and "unique skin", but not "legendary skin". :) > > > > > > I think if you were to go into LA map chat and say that legendary skins don't exist, you'd be laughed out of the game. Legendary skins clearly exist and the fact that you say otherwise just proves how delusional you are. > > > > > > > 3. It's almost like PvE has Envoy, WvW has Sublime Misforged and PvP has Ardent Glorious Armor. What a shocking coincidence! :lol: > > > > > > Ardent Glorious Armor is just a reskin of Glorious Hero Armor. It looks almost completely identical. Sublime Mistforged is a reskin of the Triumphant Hero Armor (again, almost completely identical) with only the chest piece having an added effect. > > > > > > My point still stands. The only way to obtain PvE exclusive legendary armor skins is through PvE. The other 2 gamemodes do not have access to the transforming effects as what's available are essentially lazy reskins of already existing ones. > > > > > > > 4. Nah, I won't bother. It's all there already. > > > > > > Exactly. You can't quote me because there isn't any. Called it. :] > > > > > > Just saying "it's there," doesn't mean it actually is. Burden of proof lies with the claimant, not the defender. Thus, saying that I'm exaggerating and incorrect, then failing to provide _any_ proof or quotes as to why it is so, is one of the _biggest_ logical fallacies. It's too bad you're entire argument sucks, hence why you can't actually provide a single piece of evidence to back up your claims. > > > > The skins you have for the spvp and wvw legendary upgrades are excluseive to those game modes aswell come again with something else please. > > The fact that you can get the same skins as ascended dont matter its still exlusive. > > Yes the skins are exclusive to their game mode, but you have got to admit it's really cheeky that they did not get any kind of graphical upgrade going to legendary. It took them what 2 years to make the raid ones? So if they start now we should see the wvw in march 2019 and spvp march 2020 boy that would be fun. I admit its kinda shitty that they made the new tech then only used it for 3 sets of full armor tho. Edit but the poster I quoted said only pve have exclusive legendary skin, when infact both the other legendary functioality skins are excluseive to their content aswell. Working on the wvw myself lvl189 of 2k so getting there ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkForcE.9210 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 It's funny to see those raid for business come out and nope so hard for afraid of losing profits... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltekka.2375 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 > @"Linken.6345" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"Linken.6345" said: > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > > > You won't continue because you _can't_. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well yeah. After you insist to call a game mode "1/3rd" despite huge differences in player base, content updates and whatnot, there really isn't much I *can* do beside offering a metaphor illustrating the absurdity of your claim (which you ignored). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are 3 gamemodes. PvE is one of them. Hence it is 1 out of the 3 gamemodes. It's really quite simple. Just because one gamemode has a higher population doesn't make it "more" of a gamemode than another. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So what is PvE then? 83.4/100th of a gamemode? LUL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your position is so far off any game design reality that there simply isn't any base for a debate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is what I'm talking about, you have nothing else to add. The fact that you consider PvE "more" of a gamemode than the others simply because of a higher population, coupled with the fact that you can't seem to understand that legendary armor skins are exclusive to PvE, just serves to prove how little sense you actually make. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **I never said it's because of higher population**. The higher population is a result, not a cause. The cause is the overall design of the game. It has much, MUCH more content in PvE than anything else. Upon character creation you're dropped into short PvE instance which serves as a basic tutorial and is followed up by your personal story, which, again, is PvE. Under the normal levelling experience, WvW is introduced as late as level 60 and PvP at level 80. The major updates the game receives, the expansions and the Living World Seasons, extend the personal story and the open world of the game, PvE features. Really, it's not that hard to put it all together. It's a PvE game. Yes, it *supports* two pvp game modes, and even does pretty well in them. But to expect them to be treated on even grounds with PvE is unrealistic and naive. That's not the intent of the game, it never was, and it won't be. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes you did. > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > You won't continue because you _can't_. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well yeah. **After you insist to call a game mode "1/3rd" despite huge differences in player base**, content updates and whatnot, there really isn't much I *can* do beside offering a metaphor illustrating the absurdity of your claim (which you ignored). > > > > > > > > > > > > You also said it's because of content updates and "whatnot." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **Oh, and before I forget again, your made-up term "legendary skin".** There's no such thing in this game. There's legendary gear, the defining feature of which is the ability to stat-swap on demand. Access to this function on armor *IS* available through both sPvP and WvW. Fact. And there are the exclusive skins, which may or may not be tied to said function. Exclusive skins are found everywhere, across all 3 game modes, and outside of them, in the gemstore. You're just making up an excuse because for some reason you decided you're entitled to get a specific exclusive skin without playing the respective content. It would be *exactly* the same if I was asking for The Ascension to be obtainable through, say, world bosses in open world. It doesn't matter that there's Ad Infinitum, because I'm asking for the specific skin - *exactly* what you do. The only difference is, I actually don't. Because I'm well aware of the need of exclusive rewards. > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Legendary_armor > > > > > > > > > > > > Taken from the Official Guild Wars 2 Wiki on Legendary Armor, "Acquisition of the **PvE sets with their unique skins** is linked to raids..." > > > > > > > > > > > > "Made-up term" LUL > > > > > > > > > > > > The legendary backpieces aren't an issue because: > > > > > > - PvE has Ad Infinitum > > > > > > - PvP has The Ascension > > > > > > - WvW has Warbringer > > > > > > > > > > > > Everyone is happy because they all have their own legendary backpieces exclusive to their respective gamemodes. However, there is only _one_ way to obtain the legendary armor skins, and that is through PvE. Thus, WvWers and PvPers are left out/upset/excluded/-insert synonym for dissatisfied here-. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But you're entirely right that I have nothing to add. All this I've told time and again. And it gets ignored, as I'm sure it will get ignored again. **Because you're not looking for a debate. You're looking for free shinies.** However, this game, like any successful game, is ran by people who actually understand game design. So you won't be getting your free shinies. Deal with it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > I'd be more than happy to continue debating this topic with you. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote me saying that I'm looking for free shinies. You're literally making things up and putting words into my mouth to make up for the fact that the only thing you've been saying this entire time is, "You're wrong." Yet you've failed time and time again to actually prove it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote me where I'm exaggerating. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote me on my absurd claims. > > > > > > > > > > > > You can't. > > > > > > > > > > 1. Nice cherry picking. Also, strawman. I was listing obvious indications, I didn't say I was listing reasons. :) > > > > > > > > Nice. I cherry picked the fact that you said (that you never said) that pve is more than 1/3 of the available gamemodes due to it having a higher population. So yes, I cherry picked out a blantant lie and supported it with a quote from you that proved me correct. > > > > > > > > It's not strawman when I didn't misrepresent your argument in any way. I literally quoted you as the response. LUL so if you're saying what I quoted is strawman, you're calling yourself a liar. > > > > > > > > > 2. I still don't see anywhere the term "legendary skin". I see "legendary armor" and "unique skin", but not "legendary skin". :) > > > > > > > > I think if you were to go into LA map chat and say that legendary skins don't exist, you'd be laughed out of the game. Legendary skins clearly exist and the fact that you say otherwise just proves how delusional you are. > > > > > > > > > 3. It's almost like PvE has Envoy, WvW has Sublime Misforged and PvP has Ardent Glorious Armor. What a shocking coincidence! :lol: > > > > > > > > Ardent Glorious Armor is just a reskin of Glorious Hero Armor. It looks almost completely identical. Sublime Mistforged is a reskin of the Triumphant Hero Armor (again, almost completely identical) with only the chest piece having an added effect. > > > > > > > > My point still stands. The only way to obtain PvE exclusive legendary armor skins is through PvE. The other 2 gamemodes do not have access to the transforming effects as what's available are essentially lazy reskins of already existing ones. > > > > > > > > > 4. Nah, I won't bother. It's all there already. > > > > > > > > Exactly. You can't quote me because there isn't any. Called it. :] > > > > > > > > Just saying "it's there," doesn't mean it actually is. Burden of proof lies with the claimant, not the defender. Thus, saying that I'm exaggerating and incorrect, then failing to provide _any_ proof or quotes as to why it is so, is one of the _biggest_ logical fallacies. It's too bad you're entire argument sucks, hence why you can't actually provide a single piece of evidence to back up your claims. > > > > > > The skins you have for the spvp and wvw legendary upgrades are excluseive to those game modes aswell come again with something else please. > > > The fact that you can get the same skins as ascended dont matter its still exlusive. > > > > Yes the skins are exclusive to their game mode, but you have got to admit it's really cheeky that they did not get any kind of graphical upgrade going to legendary. > > It took them what 2 years to make the raid ones? So if they start now we should see the wvw in march 2019 and spvp march 2020 boy that would be fun. > I admit its kinda kitten that they made the new tech then only used it for 3 sets of full armor tho. > > Edit > but the poster I quoted said only pve have exclusive legendary skin, when infact both the other legendary functioality skins are excluseive to their content aswell. > Working on the wvw myself lvl189 of 2k so getting there ;) No. This is wrong. T2 and T3 skins in wvw ARE exclusive. Theyre not LEGENDARY exclusive. If we were to compare stuff, think of it as the pve precursor (ascended) skin being the same as the legendary skin of the envoy armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > >it's the deviation from the foundation principals of this game that are the problem. > > > > > > > > It's called "evolution". Or if you prefer "adaptability". Through the years ANet have tried different approaches in various aspects of the game - trait system, reward structures, endgame content, even monetization. They drop some, they introduce some, they change some. That's a normal process for a game of 5+ years. You can't expect game design from before 2012 to work the same way in 2018. The market changes, the players' expectation change, and so does the design philosophy. > > > > > > This is not really true, see, a game (or anything for that matter) only needs to "evolve" as you put it, if what they were doing was not working, so they would only need to change design direction if their design was failing. Which is why things like Sharks and Jellyfish have not needed to evolve over their millions of years, anyone could tell you that it's a bad idea to mess with what is working. > > > > > > Well.. "evolving" as you put it cost them around 25 Million in annual Sales (and I'm being real nice with this number to show minimal impact). But that is also how Evolution Works sometimes, it's called _survival of the fittest_ after all, and in a world of WoW Clones, moving away from your Foundation Design Philosophy of being the game for "**everyone else**" and taking pride in _not being a WoW Clone_ to then evolve into becoming a WoW Clone in a market saturated with WoW Clones.. Well, in the end of things, No one ever said Evolution was Intelligent Design. > > > > Evolution is a process driven mostly by changing conditions. Which is true in this case - the game market is changing, and is changing a lot over 5+ years. What you say is true if you're top of the food chain, but see, that only applies to specific niches. Like sharks, or, say, Minecraft. A MMO usually tries NOT to be niche *on purpose*. They generally rely on large playerbase and large revenues, needed to cover their large development and support costs. > > > > Furthermore, you're drawing wrong conclusions based on their earning reports. A decline in sales is normal. Nothing keeps the same revenues it get at launch, **nothing**. Even subscription-based games will show a decline in revenue as they age. (By the way the subscription model is a nice example of evolution, as MMOs at large dropped it and in some cases converted to microtransactions). So no. ANet's decisions and adaptability have kept GW2 in business and in good shape. You can find many MMOs which launched after it and are already de facto dead. > > LOL, first off, No,.., WoW had better sales the year after launch then it did at launch. In fact WoW launched with under 100K subscribers, and 4 years later it was tipping the scales at 10 Million subs. So.. you're very.. very.. wrong about the launch sales and continual decline following, it is simply not true at all, it's a fable at best. Truth is, like it or not, that WoW was not some single unique case, as EQ did the same thing, and so did other games like Ultima Online, Second Life, EvE.. even Lineage (which is an NCsoft game, figured I'd include that) was doing better years after launch.. and that is just to name a few.. there are many more.. but I hope I made my point. > > Also, I when I said I was being **Kind** to show a minimal impact, I meant that I _did not add in the Launch sales of Core_, if I had done that,. it would have been a average of 35 Million Annual Loss.. so.. yah.. I was being **Kind** to show minimal impact, and it's still 25 million. > > So.. No.. in fact, the shape of this game post HoT and Raids is that of continual decline, Which as irony would have it, was not the case pre-HoT. > > So yes.. they are doing something wrong at this point.. or more aptly.. they did something very wrong. Peak subscribers isn't the same as peak sales. And you can note that WoW is long, long past its peak subscribers. But believe what you want. I see the exact same scenario every single time - sales peak at launch, dropping off in a more or less exponential manner over time, repeating with every expansion. Curiously enough, GW2 matches that description. It's just normal market results. And the facts ANet keeps developing it and NCSoft keeps funding it means it's not the disaster you're portraying. This is business. If something flops, it gets canceled because you don't want to keep losing money. They aren't losing money, they're earning them. They're making enough profits to warrant the continued development. These are all facts, because the ongoing development is a fact. We see Living World releases and you can bet they're already working on next expansion. But, again, believe what you want. Go ahead, develop your own game, run it by the principles you believe in and see what happens. 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Linken.6345 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > @"Linken.6345" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"Linken.6345" said: > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > > > > You won't continue because you _can't_. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well yeah. After you insist to call a game mode "1/3rd" despite huge differences in player base, content updates and whatnot, there really isn't much I *can* do beside offering a metaphor illustrating the absurdity of your claim (which you ignored). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are 3 gamemodes. PvE is one of them. Hence it is 1 out of the 3 gamemodes. It's really quite simple. Just because one gamemode has a higher population doesn't make it "more" of a gamemode than another. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So what is PvE then? 83.4/100th of a gamemode? LUL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your position is so far off any game design reality that there simply isn't any base for a debate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is what I'm talking about, you have nothing else to add. The fact that you consider PvE "more" of a gamemode than the others simply because of a higher population, coupled with the fact that you can't seem to understand that legendary armor skins are exclusive to PvE, just serves to prove how little sense you actually make. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **I never said it's because of higher population**. The higher population is a result, not a cause. The cause is the overall design of the game. It has much, MUCH more content in PvE than anything else. Upon character creation you're dropped into short PvE instance which serves as a basic tutorial and is followed up by your personal story, which, again, is PvE. Under the normal levelling experience, WvW is introduced as late as level 60 and PvP at level 80. The major updates the game receives, the expansions and the Living World Seasons, extend the personal story and the open world of the game, PvE features. Really, it's not that hard to put it all together. It's a PvE game. Yes, it *supports* two pvp game modes, and even does pretty well in them. But to expect them to be treated on even grounds with PvE is unrealistic and naive. That's not the intent of the game, it never was, and it won't be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes you did. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > > You won't continue because you _can't_. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well yeah. **After you insist to call a game mode "1/3rd" despite huge differences in player base**, content updates and whatnot, there really isn't much I *can* do beside offering a metaphor illustrating the absurdity of your claim (which you ignored). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You also said it's because of content updates and "whatnot." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **Oh, and before I forget again, your made-up term "legendary skin".** There's no such thing in this game. There's legendary gear, the defining feature of which is the ability to stat-swap on demand. Access to this function on armor *IS* available through both sPvP and WvW. Fact. And there are the exclusive skins, which may or may not be tied to said function. Exclusive skins are found everywhere, across all 3 game modes, and outside of them, in the gemstore. You're just making up an excuse because for some reason you decided you're entitled to get a specific exclusive skin without playing the respective content. It would be *exactly* the same if I was asking for The Ascension to be obtainable through, say, world bosses in open world. It doesn't matter that there's Ad Infinitum, because I'm asking for the specific skin - *exactly* what you do. The only difference is, I actually don't. Because I'm well aware of the need of exclusive rewards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Legendary_armor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Taken from the Official Guild Wars 2 Wiki on Legendary Armor, "Acquisition of the **PvE sets with their unique skins** is linked to raids..." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Made-up term" LUL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The legendary backpieces aren't an issue because: > > > > > > > - PvE has Ad Infinitum > > > > > > > - PvP has The Ascension > > > > > > > - WvW has Warbringer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Everyone is happy because they all have their own legendary backpieces exclusive to their respective gamemodes. However, there is only _one_ way to obtain the legendary armor skins, and that is through PvE. Thus, WvWers and PvPers are left out/upset/excluded/-insert synonym for dissatisfied here-. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But you're entirely right that I have nothing to add. All this I've told time and again. And it gets ignored, as I'm sure it will get ignored again. **Because you're not looking for a debate. You're looking for free shinies.** However, this game, like any successful game, is ran by people who actually understand game design. So you won't be getting your free shinies. Deal with it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > I'd be more than happy to continue debating this topic with you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote me saying that I'm looking for free shinies. You're literally making things up and putting words into my mouth to make up for the fact that the only thing you've been saying this entire time is, "You're wrong." Yet you've failed time and time again to actually prove it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote me where I'm exaggerating. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote me on my absurd claims. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can't. > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Nice cherry picking. Also, strawman. I was listing obvious indications, I didn't say I was listing reasons. :) > > > > > > > > > > Nice. I cherry picked the fact that you said (that you never said) that pve is more than 1/3 of the available gamemodes due to it having a higher population. So yes, I cherry picked out a blantant lie and supported it with a quote from you that proved me correct. > > > > > > > > > > It's not strawman when I didn't misrepresent your argument in any way. I literally quoted you as the response. LUL so if you're saying what I quoted is strawman, you're calling yourself a liar. > > > > > > > > > > > 2. I still don't see anywhere the term "legendary skin". I see "legendary armor" and "unique skin", but not "legendary skin". :) > > > > > > > > > > I think if you were to go into LA map chat and say that legendary skins don't exist, you'd be laughed out of the game. Legendary skins clearly exist and the fact that you say otherwise just proves how delusional you are. > > > > > > > > > > > 3. It's almost like PvE has Envoy, WvW has Sublime Misforged and PvP has Ardent Glorious Armor. What a shocking coincidence! :lol: > > > > > > > > > > Ardent Glorious Armor is just a reskin of Glorious Hero Armor. It looks almost completely identical. Sublime Mistforged is a reskin of the Triumphant Hero Armor (again, almost completely identical) with only the chest piece having an added effect. > > > > > > > > > > My point still stands. The only way to obtain PvE exclusive legendary armor skins is through PvE. The other 2 gamemodes do not have access to the transforming effects as what's available are essentially lazy reskins of already existing ones. > > > > > > > > > > > 4. Nah, I won't bother. It's all there already. > > > > > > > > > > Exactly. You can't quote me because there isn't any. Called it. :] > > > > > > > > > > Just saying "it's there," doesn't mean it actually is. Burden of proof lies with the claimant, not the defender. Thus, saying that I'm exaggerating and incorrect, then failing to provide _any_ proof or quotes as to why it is so, is one of the _biggest_ logical fallacies. It's too bad you're entire argument sucks, hence why you can't actually provide a single piece of evidence to back up your claims. > > > > > > > > The skins you have for the spvp and wvw legendary upgrades are excluseive to those game modes aswell come again with something else please. > > > > The fact that you can get the same skins as ascended dont matter its still exlusive. > > > > > > Yes the skins are exclusive to their game mode, but you have got to admit it's really cheeky that they did not get any kind of graphical upgrade going to legendary. > > > > It took them what 2 years to make the raid ones? So if they start now we should see the wvw in march 2019 and spvp march 2020 boy that would be fun. > > I admit its kinda kitten that they made the new tech then only used it for 3 sets of full armor tho. > > > > Edit > > but the poster I quoted said only pve have exclusive legendary skin, when infact both the other legendary functioality skins are excluseive to their content aswell. > > Working on the wvw myself lvl189 of 2k so getting there ;) > > No. This is wrong. T2 and T3 skins in wvw ARE exclusive. Theyre not LEGENDARY exclusive. If we were to compare stuff, think of it as the pve precursor (ascended) skin being the same as the legendary skin of the envoy armor. Since you agree with me how can you say Im wrong? I never said that the skin was legendary exclusive were did you read that? I just said that the skin that was used on each of the legendary armors were exlusive to the content content were you aquired them. Just becouse its the same as the t2 and t3 skin dont take away the exclusivity of the legendary reskin. Remember they were originaly not even suposed to be in game and was inserted becouse alot of wvwer and spvper complained that their respective game modes dident have access to legendary functionality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltekka.2375 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 > @"Linken.6345" said: > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > @"Linken.6345" said: > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > @"Linken.6345" said: > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > You won't continue because you _can't_. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well yeah. After you insist to call a game mode "1/3rd" despite huge differences in player base, content updates and whatnot, there really isn't much I *can* do beside offering a metaphor illustrating the absurdity of your claim (which you ignored). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are 3 gamemodes. PvE is one of them. Hence it is 1 out of the 3 gamemodes. It's really quite simple. Just because one gamemode has a higher population doesn't make it "more" of a gamemode than another. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So what is PvE then? 83.4/100th of a gamemode? LUL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your position is so far off any game design reality that there simply isn't any base for a debate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is what I'm talking about, you have nothing else to add. The fact that you consider PvE "more" of a gamemode than the others simply because of a higher population, coupled with the fact that you can't seem to understand that legendary armor skins are exclusive to PvE, just serves to prove how little sense you actually make. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **I never said it's because of higher population**. The higher population is a result, not a cause. The cause is the overall design of the game. It has much, MUCH more content in PvE than anything else. Upon character creation you're dropped into short PvE instance which serves as a basic tutorial and is followed up by your personal story, which, again, is PvE. Under the normal levelling experience, WvW is introduced as late as level 60 and PvP at level 80. The major updates the game receives, the expansions and the Living World Seasons, extend the personal story and the open world of the game, PvE features. Really, it's not that hard to put it all together. It's a PvE game. Yes, it *supports* two pvp game modes, and even does pretty well in them. But to expect them to be treated on even grounds with PvE is unrealistic and naive. That's not the intent of the game, it never was, and it won't be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes you did. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > > > You won't continue because you _can't_. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well yeah. **After you insist to call a game mode "1/3rd" despite huge differences in player base**, content updates and whatnot, there really isn't much I *can* do beside offering a metaphor illustrating the absurdity of your claim (which you ignored). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You also said it's because of content updates and "whatnot." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **Oh, and before I forget again, your made-up term "legendary skin".** There's no such thing in this game. There's legendary gear, the defining feature of which is the ability to stat-swap on demand. Access to this function on armor *IS* available through both sPvP and WvW. Fact. And there are the exclusive skins, which may or may not be tied to said function. Exclusive skins are found everywhere, across all 3 game modes, and outside of them, in the gemstore. You're just making up an excuse because for some reason you decided you're entitled to get a specific exclusive skin without playing the respective content. It would be *exactly* the same if I was asking for The Ascension to be obtainable through, say, world bosses in open world. It doesn't matter that there's Ad Infinitum, because I'm asking for the specific skin - *exactly* what you do. The only difference is, I actually don't. Because I'm well aware of the need of exclusive rewards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Legendary_armor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Taken from the Official Guild Wars 2 Wiki on Legendary Armor, "Acquisition of the **PvE sets with their unique skins** is linked to raids..." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Made-up term" LUL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The legendary backpieces aren't an issue because: > > > > > > > > - PvE has Ad Infinitum > > > > > > > > - PvP has The Ascension > > > > > > > > - WvW has Warbringer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Everyone is happy because they all have their own legendary backpieces exclusive to their respective gamemodes. However, there is only _one_ way to obtain the legendary armor skins, and that is through PvE. Thus, WvWers and PvPers are left out/upset/excluded/-insert synonym for dissatisfied here-. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But you're entirely right that I have nothing to add. All this I've told time and again. And it gets ignored, as I'm sure it will get ignored again. **Because you're not looking for a debate. You're looking for free shinies.** However, this game, like any successful game, is ran by people who actually understand game design. So you won't be getting your free shinies. Deal with it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > > I'd be more than happy to continue debating this topic with you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote me saying that I'm looking for free shinies. You're literally making things up and putting words into my mouth to make up for the fact that the only thing you've been saying this entire time is, "You're wrong." Yet you've failed time and time again to actually prove it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote me where I'm exaggerating. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote me on my absurd claims. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Nice cherry picking. Also, strawman. I was listing obvious indications, I didn't say I was listing reasons. :) > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice. I cherry picked the fact that you said (that you never said) that pve is more than 1/3 of the available gamemodes due to it having a higher population. So yes, I cherry picked out a blantant lie and supported it with a quote from you that proved me correct. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not strawman when I didn't misrepresent your argument in any way. I literally quoted you as the response. LUL so if you're saying what I quoted is strawman, you're calling yourself a liar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. I still don't see anywhere the term "legendary skin". I see "legendary armor" and "unique skin", but not "legendary skin". :) > > > > > > > > > > > > I think if you were to go into LA map chat and say that legendary skins don't exist, you'd be laughed out of the game. Legendary skins clearly exist and the fact that you say otherwise just proves how delusional you are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. It's almost like PvE has Envoy, WvW has Sublime Misforged and PvP has Ardent Glorious Armor. What a shocking coincidence! :lol: > > > > > > > > > > > > Ardent Glorious Armor is just a reskin of Glorious Hero Armor. It looks almost completely identical. Sublime Mistforged is a reskin of the Triumphant Hero Armor (again, almost completely identical) with only the chest piece having an added effect. > > > > > > > > > > > > My point still stands. The only way to obtain PvE exclusive legendary armor skins is through PvE. The other 2 gamemodes do not have access to the transforming effects as what's available are essentially lazy reskins of already existing ones. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4. Nah, I won't bother. It's all there already. > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly. You can't quote me because there isn't any. Called it. :] > > > > > > > > > > > > Just saying "it's there," doesn't mean it actually is. Burden of proof lies with the claimant, not the defender. Thus, saying that I'm exaggerating and incorrect, then failing to provide _any_ proof or quotes as to why it is so, is one of the _biggest_ logical fallacies. It's too bad you're entire argument sucks, hence why you can't actually provide a single piece of evidence to back up your claims. > > > > > > > > > > The skins you have for the spvp and wvw legendary upgrades are excluseive to those game modes aswell come again with something else please. > > > > > The fact that you can get the same skins as ascended dont matter its still exlusive. > > > > > > > > Yes the skins are exclusive to their game mode, but you have got to admit it's really cheeky that they did not get any kind of graphical upgrade going to legendary. > > > > > > It took them what 2 years to make the raid ones? So if they start now we should see the wvw in march 2019 and spvp march 2020 boy that would be fun. > > > I admit its kinda kitten that they made the new tech then only used it for 3 sets of full armor tho. > > > > > > Edit > > > but the poster I quoted said only pve have exclusive legendary skin, when infact both the other legendary functioality skins are excluseive to their content aswell. > > > Working on the wvw myself lvl189 of 2k so getting there ;) > > > > No. This is wrong. T2 and T3 skins in wvw ARE exclusive. Theyre not LEGENDARY exclusive. If we were to compare stuff, think of it as the pve precursor (ascended) skin being the same as the legendary skin of the envoy armor. > > Since you agree with me how can you say Im wrong? I never said that the skin was legendary exclusive were did you read that? > I just said that the skin that was used on each of the legendary armors were exlusive to the content content were you aquired them. > > Just becouse its the same as the t2 and t3 skin dont take away the exclusivity of the legendary reskin. > Remember they were originaly not even suposed to be in game and was inserted becouse alot of wvwer and spvper complained that their respective game modes dident have access to legendary functionality. You somehow confused Mode exclusive with "functionality" exclusive. Is envoy armor Mode (pve content) exclude? Yes. Is envoy armor "functionality" exclusive(Meaning, is everyone who wears envoy armor guaranteed to have made legendary pve armor) ? Yes. Is T3 wvw armor mode exclusive? Yes. Is T3 wvw armor "functionality" exclusive? Of course not. Also, above, you wrote "The fact that you can get the same skins as ascended dont matter its still exlusive.". That statement contradicts the exclusiveness... Do you see the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 > @"Linken.6345" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"Linken.6345" said: > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > > > You won't continue because you _can't_. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well yeah. After you insist to call a game mode "1/3rd" despite huge differences in player base, content updates and whatnot, there really isn't much I *can* do beside offering a metaphor illustrating the absurdity of your claim (which you ignored). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are 3 gamemodes. PvE is one of them. Hence it is 1 out of the 3 gamemodes. It's really quite simple. Just because one gamemode has a higher population doesn't make it "more" of a gamemode than another. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So what is PvE then? 83.4/100th of a gamemode? LUL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your position is so far off any game design reality that there simply isn't any base for a debate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is what I'm talking about, you have nothing else to add. The fact that you consider PvE "more" of a gamemode than the others simply because of a higher population, coupled with the fact that you can't seem to understand that legendary armor skins are exclusive to PvE, just serves to prove how little sense you actually make. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **I never said it's because of higher population**. The higher population is a result, not a cause. The cause is the overall design of the game. It has much, MUCH more content in PvE than anything else. Upon character creation you're dropped into short PvE instance which serves as a basic tutorial and is followed up by your personal story, which, again, is PvE. Under the normal levelling experience, WvW is introduced as late as level 60 and PvP at level 80. The major updates the game receives, the expansions and the Living World Seasons, extend the personal story and the open world of the game, PvE features. Really, it's not that hard to put it all together. It's a PvE game. Yes, it *supports* two pvp game modes, and even does pretty well in them. But to expect them to be treated on even grounds with PvE is unrealistic and naive. That's not the intent of the game, it never was, and it won't be. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes you did. > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > You won't continue because you _can't_. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well yeah. **After you insist to call a game mode "1/3rd" despite huge differences in player base**, content updates and whatnot, there really isn't much I *can* do beside offering a metaphor illustrating the absurdity of your claim (which you ignored). > > > > > > > > > > > > You also said it's because of content updates and "whatnot." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **Oh, and before I forget again, your made-up term "legendary skin".** There's no such thing in this game. There's legendary gear, the defining feature of which is the ability to stat-swap on demand. Access to this function on armor *IS* available through both sPvP and WvW. Fact. And there are the exclusive skins, which may or may not be tied to said function. Exclusive skins are found everywhere, across all 3 game modes, and outside of them, in the gemstore. You're just making up an excuse because for some reason you decided you're entitled to get a specific exclusive skin without playing the respective content. It would be *exactly* the same if I was asking for The Ascension to be obtainable through, say, world bosses in open world. It doesn't matter that there's Ad Infinitum, because I'm asking for the specific skin - *exactly* what you do. The only difference is, I actually don't. Because I'm well aware of the need of exclusive rewards. > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Legendary_armor > > > > > > > > > > > > Taken from the Official Guild Wars 2 Wiki on Legendary Armor, "Acquisition of the **PvE sets with their unique skins** is linked to raids..." > > > > > > > > > > > > "Made-up term" LUL > > > > > > > > > > > > The legendary backpieces aren't an issue because: > > > > > > - PvE has Ad Infinitum > > > > > > - PvP has The Ascension > > > > > > - WvW has Warbringer > > > > > > > > > > > > Everyone is happy because they all have their own legendary backpieces exclusive to their respective gamemodes. However, there is only _one_ way to obtain the legendary armor skins, and that is through PvE. Thus, WvWers and PvPers are left out/upset/excluded/-insert synonym for dissatisfied here-. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But you're entirely right that I have nothing to add. All this I've told time and again. And it gets ignored, as I'm sure it will get ignored again. **Because you're not looking for a debate. You're looking for free shinies.** However, this game, like any successful game, is ran by people who actually understand game design. So you won't be getting your free shinies. Deal with it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > I'd be more than happy to continue debating this topic with you. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote me saying that I'm looking for free shinies. You're literally making things up and putting words into my mouth to make up for the fact that the only thing you've been saying this entire time is, "You're wrong." Yet you've failed time and time again to actually prove it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote me where I'm exaggerating. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote me on my absurd claims. > > > > > > > > > > > > You can't. > > > > > > > > > > 1. Nice cherry picking. Also, strawman. I was listing obvious indications, I didn't say I was listing reasons. :) > > > > > > > > Nice. I cherry picked the fact that you said (that you never said) that pve is more than 1/3 of the available gamemodes due to it having a higher population. So yes, I cherry picked out a blantant lie and supported it with a quote from you that proved me correct. > > > > > > > > It's not strawman when I didn't misrepresent your argument in any way. I literally quoted you as the response. LUL so if you're saying what I quoted is strawman, you're calling yourself a liar. > > > > > > > > > 2. I still don't see anywhere the term "legendary skin". I see "legendary armor" and "unique skin", but not "legendary skin". :) > > > > > > > > I think if you were to go into LA map chat and say that legendary skins don't exist, you'd be laughed out of the game. Legendary skins clearly exist and the fact that you say otherwise just proves how delusional you are. > > > > > > > > > 3. It's almost like PvE has Envoy, WvW has Sublime Misforged and PvP has Ardent Glorious Armor. What a shocking coincidence! :lol: > > > > > > > > Ardent Glorious Armor is just a reskin of Glorious Hero Armor. It looks almost completely identical. Sublime Mistforged is a reskin of the Triumphant Hero Armor (again, almost completely identical) with only the chest piece having an added effect. > > > > > > > > My point still stands. The only way to obtain PvE exclusive legendary armor skins is through PvE. The other 2 gamemodes do not have access to the transforming effects as what's available are essentially lazy reskins of already existing ones. > > > > > > > > > 4. Nah, I won't bother. It's all there already. > > > > > > > > Exactly. You can't quote me because there isn't any. Called it. :] > > > > > > > > Just saying "it's there," doesn't mean it actually is. Burden of proof lies with the claimant, not the defender. Thus, saying that I'm exaggerating and incorrect, then failing to provide _any_ proof or quotes as to why it is so, is one of the _biggest_ logical fallacies. It's too bad you're entire argument sucks, hence why you can't actually provide a single piece of evidence to back up your claims. > > > > > > The skins you have for the spvp and wvw legendary upgrades are excluseive to those game modes aswell come again with something else please. > > > The fact that you can get the same skins as ascended dont matter its still exlusive. > > > > Yes the skins are exclusive to their game mode, but you have got to admit it's really cheeky that they did not get any kind of graphical upgrade going to legendary. > > It took them what 2 years to make the raid ones? So if they start now we should see the wvw in march 2019 and spvp march 2020 boy that would be fun. > I admit its kinda kitten that they made the new tech then only used it for 3 sets of full armor tho. > > Edit > but the poster I quoted said only pve have exclusive legendary skin, when infact both the other legendary functioality skins are excluseive to their content aswell. > Working on the wvw myself lvl189 of 2k so getting there ;) Ehh, I'd say it's just a WvW Exclusive Skin. So.. on that one, I would agree with their point about it not being a Exclusive _Legendary_ WvW Armor Skin, as the skin is not exclusive to WvW Legendary Armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 > @"Linken.6345" said: > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > You won't continue because you _can't_. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well yeah. After you insist to call a game mode "1/3rd" despite huge differences in player base, content updates and whatnot, there really isn't much I *can* do beside offering a metaphor illustrating the absurdity of your claim (which you ignored). > > > > > > > > > > > > There are 3 gamemodes. PvE is one of them. Hence it is 1 out of the 3 gamemodes. It's really quite simple. Just because one gamemode has a higher population doesn't make it "more" of a gamemode than another. > > > > > > > > > > > > So what is PvE then? 83.4/100th of a gamemode? LUL > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your position is so far off any game design reality that there simply isn't any base for a debate. > > > > > > > > > > > > This is what I'm talking about, you have nothing else to add. The fact that you consider PvE "more" of a gamemode than the others simply because of a higher population, coupled with the fact that you can't seem to understand that legendary armor skins are exclusive to PvE, just serves to prove how little sense you actually make. > > > > > > > > > > **I never said it's because of higher population**. The higher population is a result, not a cause. The cause is the overall design of the game. It has much, MUCH more content in PvE than anything else. Upon character creation you're dropped into short PvE instance which serves as a basic tutorial and is followed up by your personal story, which, again, is PvE. Under the normal levelling experience, WvW is introduced as late as level 60 and PvP at level 80. The major updates the game receives, the expansions and the Living World Seasons, extend the personal story and the open world of the game, PvE features. Really, it's not that hard to put it all together. It's a PvE game. Yes, it *supports* two pvp game modes, and even does pretty well in them. But to expect them to be treated on even grounds with PvE is unrealistic and naive. That's not the intent of the game, it never was, and it won't be. > > > > > > > > Yes you did. > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > You won't continue because you _can't_. > > > > > > > > > > Well yeah. **After you insist to call a game mode "1/3rd" despite huge differences in player base**, content updates and whatnot, there really isn't much I *can* do beside offering a metaphor illustrating the absurdity of your claim (which you ignored). > > > > > > > > You also said it's because of content updates and "whatnot." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **Oh, and before I forget again, your made-up term "legendary skin".** There's no such thing in this game. There's legendary gear, the defining feature of which is the ability to stat-swap on demand. Access to this function on armor *IS* available through both sPvP and WvW. Fact. And there are the exclusive skins, which may or may not be tied to said function. Exclusive skins are found everywhere, across all 3 game modes, and outside of them, in the gemstore. You're just making up an excuse because for some reason you decided you're entitled to get a specific exclusive skin without playing the respective content. It would be *exactly* the same if I was asking for The Ascension to be obtainable through, say, world bosses in open world. It doesn't matter that there's Ad Infinitum, because I'm asking for the specific skin - *exactly* what you do. The only difference is, I actually don't. Because I'm well aware of the need of exclusive rewards. > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Legendary_armor > > > > > > > > Taken from the Official Guild Wars 2 Wiki on Legendary Armor, "Acquisition of the **PvE sets with their unique skins** is linked to raids..." > > > > > > > > "Made-up term" LUL > > > > > > > > The legendary backpieces aren't an issue because: > > > > - PvE has Ad Infinitum > > > > - PvP has The Ascension > > > > - WvW has Warbringer > > > > > > > > Everyone is happy because they all have their own legendary backpieces exclusive to their respective gamemodes. However, there is only _one_ way to obtain the legendary armor skins, and that is through PvE. Thus, WvWers and PvPers are left out/upset/excluded/-insert synonym for dissatisfied here-. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But you're entirely right that I have nothing to add. All this I've told time and again. And it gets ignored, as I'm sure it will get ignored again. **Because you're not looking for a debate. You're looking for free shinies.** However, this game, like any successful game, is ran by people who actually understand game design. So you won't be getting your free shinies. Deal with it. > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > I'd be more than happy to continue debating this topic with you. > > > > > > > > Quote me saying that I'm looking for free shinies. You're literally making things up and putting words into my mouth to make up for the fact that the only thing you've been saying this entire time is, "You're wrong." Yet you've failed time and time again to actually prove it. > > > > > > > > Quote me where I'm exaggerating. > > > > > > > > Quote me on my absurd claims. > > > > > > > > You can't. > > > > > > 1. Nice cherry picking. Also, strawman. I was listing obvious indications, I didn't say I was listing reasons. :) > > > > Nice. I cherry picked the fact that you said (that you never said) that pve is more than 1/3 of the available gamemodes due to it having a higher population. So yes, I cherry picked out a blantant lie and supported it with a quote from you that proved me correct. > > > > It's not strawman when I didn't misrepresent your argument in any way. I literally quoted you as the response. LUL so if you're saying what I quoted is strawman, you're calling yourself a liar. > > > > > 2. I still don't see anywhere the term "legendary skin". I see "legendary armor" and "unique skin", but not "legendary skin". :) > > > > I think if you were to go into LA map chat and say that legendary skins don't exist, you'd be laughed out of the game. Legendary skins clearly exist and the fact that you say otherwise just proves how delusional you are. > > > > > 3. It's almost like PvE has Envoy, WvW has Sublime Misforged and PvP has Ardent Glorious Armor. What a shocking coincidence! :lol: > > > > Ardent Glorious Armor is just a reskin of Glorious Hero Armor. It looks almost completely identical. Sublime Mistforged is a reskin of the Triumphant Hero Armor (again, almost completely identical) with only the chest piece having an added effect. > > > > My point still stands. The only way to obtain PvE exclusive legendary armor skins is through PvE. The other 2 gamemodes do not have access to the transforming effects as what's available are essentially lazy reskins of already existing ones. > > > > > 4. Nah, I won't bother. It's all there already. > > > > Exactly. You can't quote me because there isn't any. Called it. :] > > > > Just saying "it's there," doesn't mean it actually is. Burden of proof lies with the claimant, not the defender. Thus, saying that I'm exaggerating and incorrect, then failing to provide _any_ proof or quotes as to why it is so, is one of the _biggest_ logical fallacies. It's too bad you're entire argument sucks, hence why you can't actually provide a single piece of evidence to back up your claims. > > The skins you have for the spvp and wvw legendary upgrades are excluseive to those game modes aswell come again with something else please. > The fact that you can get the same skins as ascended dont matter its still exlusive. I didn't "come with that" in the first place. Quote me where I said "the sPvP and WvW legendary upgrades **aren't** exclusive to those gamemodes." because if you can't, you're lying and putting words into my mouth. I hope you realize that if Anet did Perfected Envoy armor the same way as Ardent/Sublime, it would have the same appearance as Experimental Envoy. ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Aside from that, If you flipped this whole situation around: - PvP would have several different gamemodes - Tons of new skins and rewards - GvGs would be heavily supported - Ardent/Sublime Legendary Armor Skins would have cool transforming effects rather than just being lazy reskins - New Legendary Weapons would only be able to be made through PvP/WvW - etc. etc. - **Meanwhile PvE hadn't been changed much since release. The highest end PvE content would be speed running dungeons 6 years into the game.** And people are saying PvErs wouldn't feel left out/frustrated/excluded/-insert synonym for dissatisfied here- and complain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > @"Tails.9372" said: > > Well then tell me, which WvW side content do you **have to** play in order to get Warbringer? > > Sure. > > If Raids and Fractals of the Mist are considered as "side-content" in PvE... > and Leagues are considered as "side-content" in PvP... > It must stand to reason that Battlegrounds and Borderlands are "side-content" in WvW. No. Battlegrounds and Borderlands are the _core_ WvW content. Basically: Warbringer is being done through path that a huge majority of WvW players do. Envoy armor is available only through the content that only a small minority of PvE players even try. WvW doesn't even _have_ a sidecontent that would be that niche. It's better for Fractals, but it's still the minority. It's similar for SPvP. Even if the League is limiting things a bit it's still nothing compared to the PvE situation. > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > You are unable to earn Warbringer through any other WvW content asides from Battlegrounds/Borderlands, just as how... > You are unable to earn Ad Infinitum through any other PvE content asides from Fractals... > You are unable to earn The Ascension through any other PvP content asides from Leagues... In short: almost all WvW players play the content through which you can obtain Warbringer a significant part of the SPvP population can earn Ascension (not that the leagues are in any way different than the normal unranked and ranked, so it's entirely possible a majority of PvP players do in fact play in leagues) only a minority of the PvE population plays the content that gives Ad Infinitum See the difference? (in case of legendary armor the difference is even greater. Much greater) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > @"Tails.9372" said: > > > Well then tell me, which WvW side content do you **have to** play in order to get Warbringer? > > > > Sure. > > > > If Raids and Fractals of the Mist are considered as "side-content" in PvE... > > and Leagues are considered as "side-content" in PvP... > > It must stand to reason that Battlegrounds and Borderlands are "side-content" in WvW. > No. Battlegrounds and Borderlands are the _core_ WvW content. > Basically: Warbringer is being done through path that a huge majority of WvW players do. Envoy armor is available only through the content that only a small minority of PvE players even try. WvW doesn't even _have_ a sidecontent that would be that niche. It's better for Fractals, but it's still the minority. > It's similar for SPvP. Even if the League is limiting things a bit it's still nothing compared to the PvE situation. > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > You are unable to earn Warbringer through any other WvW content asides from Battlegrounds/Borderlands, just as how... > > You are unable to earn Ad Infinitum through any other PvE content asides from Fractals... > > You are unable to earn The Ascension through any other PvP content asides from Leagues... > In short: almost all WvW players play the content through which you can obtain Warbringer > a significant part of the SPvP population can earn Ascension (not that the leagues are in any way different than the normal unranked and ranked, so it's entirely possible a majority of PvP players do in fact play in leagues) > only a minority of the PvE population plays the content that gives Ad Infinitum > > See the difference? > > (in case of legendary armor the difference is even greater. Much greater) > > So what classifies as "core content" for PvP and PvE? The whole point that Ad Infinitum isn't **the** PvE legendary backpiece because you have to do Fractals in order to get it (which happens to be PvE content) is absolutely terrible. It is the **only** PvE legendary backpiece, hence it is **the** PvE legendary backpiece. Saying otherwise is just wrong no matter how you look at it. There are quite obviously 3 distinct legendary backpiece for each respective gamemode. Like I said previously, it doesn't matter how many types/how many players play/which "side-content" you have to do to complete it. Differences in population don't all of a sudden could make Ad Infinitum not **the** PvE legendary backpiece... LUL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > >it's the deviation from the foundation principals of this game that are the problem. > > > > > > > > > > It's called "evolution". Or if you prefer "adaptability". Through the years ANet have tried different approaches in various aspects of the game - trait system, reward structures, endgame content, even monetization. They drop some, they introduce some, they change some. That's a normal process for a game of 5+ years. You can't expect game design from before 2012 to work the same way in 2018. The market changes, the players' expectation change, and so does the design philosophy. > > > > > > > > This is not really true, see, a game (or anything for that matter) only needs to "evolve" as you put it, if what they were doing was not working, so they would only need to change design direction if their design was failing. Which is why things like Sharks and Jellyfish have not needed to evolve over their millions of years, anyone could tell you that it's a bad idea to mess with what is working. > > > > > > > > Well.. "evolving" as you put it cost them around 25 Million in annual Sales (and I'm being real nice with this number to show minimal impact). But that is also how Evolution Works sometimes, it's called _survival of the fittest_ after all, and in a world of WoW Clones, moving away from your Foundation Design Philosophy of being the game for "**everyone else**" and taking pride in _not being a WoW Clone_ to then evolve into becoming a WoW Clone in a market saturated with WoW Clones.. Well, in the end of things, No one ever said Evolution was Intelligent Design. > > > > > > Evolution is a process driven mostly by changing conditions. Which is true in this case - the game market is changing, and is changing a lot over 5+ years. What you say is true if you're top of the food chain, but see, that only applies to specific niches. Like sharks, or, say, Minecraft. A MMO usually tries NOT to be niche *on purpose*. They generally rely on large playerbase and large revenues, needed to cover their large development and support costs. > > > > > > Furthermore, you're drawing wrong conclusions based on their earning reports. A decline in sales is normal. Nothing keeps the same revenues it get at launch, **nothing**. Even subscription-based games will show a decline in revenue as they age. (By the way the subscription model is a nice example of evolution, as MMOs at large dropped it and in some cases converted to microtransactions). So no. ANet's decisions and adaptability have kept GW2 in business and in good shape. You can find many MMOs which launched after it and are already de facto dead. > > > > LOL, first off, No,.., WoW had better sales the year after launch then it did at launch. In fact WoW launched with under 100K subscribers, and 4 years later it was tipping the scales at 10 Million subs. So.. you're very.. very.. wrong about the launch sales and continual decline following, it is simply not true at all, it's a fable at best. Truth is, like it or not, that WoW was not some single unique case, as EQ did the same thing, and so did other games like Ultima Online, Second Life, EvE.. even Lineage (which is an NCsoft game, figured I'd include that) was doing better years after launch.. and that is just to name a few.. there are many more.. but I hope I made my point. > > > > Also, I when I said I was being **Kind** to show a minimal impact, I meant that I _did not add in the Launch sales of Core_, if I had done that,. it would have been a average of 35 Million Annual Loss.. so.. yah.. I was being **Kind** to show minimal impact, and it's still 25 million. > > > > So.. No.. in fact, the shape of this game post HoT and Raids is that of continual decline, Which as irony would have it, was not the case pre-HoT. > > > > So yes.. they are doing something wrong at this point.. or more aptly.. they did something very wrong. > > Peak subscribers isn't the same as peak sales. And you can note that WoW is long, long past its peak subscribers. But believe what you want. I see the exact same scenario every single time - sales peak at launch, dropping off in a more or less exponential manner over time, repeating with every expansion. Curiously enough, GW2 matches that description. It's just normal market results. And the facts ANet keeps developing it and NCSoft keeps funding it means it's not the disaster you're portraying. This is business. If something flops, it gets canceled because you don't want to keep losing money. They aren't losing money, they're earning them. They're making enough profits to warrant the continued development. These are all facts, because the ongoing development is a fact. We see Living World releases and you can bet they're already working on next expansion. But, again, believe what you want. Go ahead, develop your own game, run it by the principles you believe in and see what happens. WoW, So much wrong with this post. To start off, with Sub Based games, **Subs do Equal Sales**. Which is _why I used Sub Based games_ ,I get that you don't want to be wrong about this, but, numbers don't lie, and I am not making any of this up. It took WoW 4 years before they saw a decline in sales, which your belief that games have a launch sale and it's all down hill from there, to be patently wrong. In fact not sure why people cling to this myth, when both UO and EQ had better sales their second year then they did their first. Secondly, a game being alive is not the same as a game doing well. Case in point, StarWars Galaxies, NGE (yes I went there, with the most Infamous "bad move" in MMO history) was done in 2005, the game itself closed in 2011. That means it took the game longer to die after that catastrophic event then GW2 has been alive. So just being around and not being closed down, is not any indication that "everything is fine" Also, final point, as you clearly pointed out WoW is in decline, and guess what, it's still pumping out expansion after expansion, I mean.. for real.. EQ just put out an Expansion, and.. _yah_ .. So, anyway, keep that in mind when you think development means the game is doing great, don't let me stop you from waving your banner that everything is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayakaru.6583 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 The method of crafting seems fine, but the acquisition of a precursor is just brutal. They’re so quaggan rare a beta-old acount hasn’t found a single one. True we can at least craft a precursor now, so its no longer the end of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > So what classifies as "core content" for PvP and PvE? The division between unranked, ranked and leagues is completely independent of the content itself - you play either completely the same, and if somebody has shown you a video of a PvP game, in most cases you wouldn't even be able to tell which mode it was made in. All of these modes are practically the same content, the division lies not in the content itself, but in what people you want to play that content with and against. That's why i said Ascension is a core reward. You do have a point that having it available only through league _is_ a limiting factor. Still, a SPvP player can get it without changing the way they play at all. Finding an example of a "core" pve gameplay is a bit harder, because it is much more divided and fragmented mode than SPvP and WvW are. Still, if you want an example of a core pve legendary, look at weapons. There's a "core" core set (gen1), and an "expansion" core set (gen2) now. > The whole point that Ad Infinitum isn't **the** PvE legendary backpiece because you have to do Fractals in order to get it (which happens to be PvE content) is absolutely terrible. It is the **only** PvE legendary backpiece, hence it is **the** PvE legendary backpiece. Apparently, we think in a completely different way. I would never call something put in a content most pve players don't play to be "the pve legendary". I feel about it as you'd probably feel if SPvP legendaries (both armor and backpack) didn't exist, and people would be calling Warbringer and legendary Triumphant armor "the PVP legendaries". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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