How can arena net keep it's players?

[MatchMan.3615]

Arena does an amazing job with it's balance and has an unbelievably revolutionary infrastructure with the AT systems and pretty sounds rewards.

 

However.....

 

Top Streamers and players are leaving. Phanta is gone. Arken is gone. Helseths GF is gone. And worst of all...

 

https://clips.twitch.tv/RelentlessUninterestedFoxPJSalt

 

How do you guys think we as a community can constructively talk about remedies to this or is this natural with age?

[Daishi.6027]

I'm just going to ignore your opening statement, can't tell if srs.

 

Kill conquest. Balance around 1v1 - 3v3 formats. (or at least 2v2 - 3v3 if you realllly think it's impossible for 1v1)

No one wants to watch conquest, no one likes the balance around it, and if you have neither; streamers and pros leave.

[Devilman.1532]

"Arena does an amazing job with it's balance and has an unbelievably revolutionary infrastructure with the AT systems and pretty sounds rewards."

 

Wait, what?

[Morwath.9817]

> @"MatchMan.3615" said:

> How do you guys think we as a community can constructively talk about remedies to this or is this natural with age?

 

Ooo, Quaggan thinks there are many reasons and people leave due to different reasons. Lets think why people actualy could leave (?)

* Chaith couldn't stand matchmaking;

* Helseth is annoyed by matchmaking, but hes more complaining about power creep as because of power creep even "trash players" can deal with him;

* Phanta, Quaggan doesn't know whats going with Phanta, but probably he isn't streaming/playing because of Ele balancing problems and game being not fun anymore.

 

[Bear.9568]

It's simply too late for pvp. GW2 is 5 yrs old and is outclassed by many other competitive games "mostly mobas". Games like league revolve around balancing patches which keeps things fresh within the meta... sometimes stagnant but rarely unchanged. I like gw2 and I still play pvp/pve/wvw but it's not a competitive game by any standard. IMO anet does not have the proper resources to maintain every aspect of the game which is why areas like pvp/wvw go overlooked.

[saerni.2584]

People move on, new ones take their place and old players return for something new.

 

It is tempting to wish the world to stand still and nothing to ever change again, but this is not our world.

 

Or, as GoT might say, Valar Morghulis.

 

Enjoy life while it lasts. The world is not ending tomorrow.

[Luciferior.4802]

@MatchMan.3615 "Arena does an amazing job with it's balance" Yep balance is good its so good in fact when you mention it to Arena Net they close the thread.

 

Looks like when the next balance patch comes ill stroll over to Svanir and get his opinion on the patch notes I hear Svanir And one of the balance Devs became very well acquainted with each other.

[R E F L H E X.8413]

For this game gvg/arena gameplay would be of my interest although I find same weapons different traits to get kinda old too a big factor, however this ship has kinda sailed I'm looking forward to a gw3 that takes notes from gw1.

[SilentSam.1589]

not sure what could be done to help retain people other than a massive overhaul but with the game being five years old I don't think Anet would invest the money nor the time to put forth a massive overhaul of spvp. For the most part, I think they are hoping that pve keep the money coming in much like pvp did for GW1.

[shadowpass.4236]

By consistently and frequently (every 2 weeks) releasing balance patches and new content for people to play around with. One of the biggest hindrances is the fact that weapon sets are locked into their abilities. Making builds in GW1, where you could choose your skills from a massive pool, was one of the most interesting and in depth systems I've ever seen. Not to mention, it was a ton of fun. I would welcome that in GW2.

[Cynz.9437]

It is too late now tbh.

Game is powercreeped to hell. AoE, AoE, AoE, low CDs, too many overtuned spells/traits. Instead of being creative with specs they chose path of powercreep to enforce sales. Greed killed combat in this game (which had best combat in the genre).

No pvp specific rewards tied to wins that players would REALLY want (e.g. special mount skin).

No punishment for trolling/griefing/match manipulation etc.

People are leaving.

Wonkly MM becomes even more wonky because of lack of population. You get punished twice now: with imbalanced match and with absurd rank gain/loses because point calculation is based on assumption that match was balanced (realistically total bs by such population issues).

People are leaving.

They would have to reroll game to pre-HoT state and start over. Not going to happen.

[Flauvious.6195]

It's not to late, it's really not that car off from being good.it doesn't need to be the next lol or data to add something to the game. It just needs little more than 0 attention.

[Rodzynald.5897]

Well... if you can't duo up and discord-queue'ing is not worth anymore, what else do they have to do? If we could at least come back to the state from vanilla GW2 pvp. Just smack out all those elite specs for at least one season and see how it goes. It's not the matchmaking, it's the people that the matchmaking has to work with.

 

Besides, only ATs hold any glimpse of worth if it comes to ranks and prestige (which is not much as well). In ranked if you roll into wins with blowout matches, then it doesn't prove that you are good, it just means that your enemies were incompetent and you turned out to be not as bad as them. Many high ranks got to such point, but mostly due to players that were in all these matches played. It's just 1 out of 10 players, the concept of "carrying" is kind of invalid in ranked. Even when I feel that I somehow "carried", I do not feel like it even if I get 4 top stats and a won match with a more than 250 or 300 point gap. What did I carry? Against some scrubs? That is hardly carrying. If my team wins by a slight chance, did I carry? No, the whole team made efforts and we all might have made mistakes, bad or worse, but everyone did their best. Long story short, there is no glory or prestige in stomping scrubs and this is one of many reasons that people leave or lose interest in PvP.

[Felipe.1807]

> @"Rodzynald.5897" said:

> Well... if you can't duo up and discord-queue'ing is not worth anymore, what else do they have to do? If we could at least come back to the state from vanilla GW2 pvp. Just smack out all those elite specs for at least one season and see how it goes. It's not the matchmaking, it's the people that the matchmaking has to work with.

>

Removing elites wouldnt work since even some core specs got buffed to match the elite specs...would still be huge inbalance between professions and this would still be enough to keep some players away. I believe we would have to go all the way back to pre-HoT, back when was 70trait points and not 3 full trait lines.

 

[Crab Fear.1624]

50 people come to the forums to complain, the other couple thousand of us will just keep on playing...not a day has gone by that I could not get a match in any game mode (regardless of quality). By streamers...come farm me elites

[Rodzynald.5897]

> @"Felipe.1807" said:

> > @"Rodzynald.5897" said:

> > Well... if you can't duo up and discord-queue'ing is not worth anymore, what else do they have to do? If we could at least come back to the state from vanilla GW2 pvp. Just smack out all those elite specs for at least one season and see how it goes. It's not the matchmaking, it's the people that the matchmaking has to work with.

> >

> Removing elites wouldnt work since even some core specs got buffed to match the elite specs...would still be huge inbalance between professions and this would still be enough to keep some players away. I believe we would have to go all the way back to pre-HoT, back when was 70trait points and not 3 full trait lines.

>

 

That is why I said to go back to vanilla state, not to just remove elites becuase this is how it looks like, just as you mentioned. Core traitlines are dependant of elites, they work around those specs.

I didn't play with old trait system, I bought HoT and played vanilla for as long as I could but I enjoyed it A LOT! It was way better than after HoT and PoF, because when people made mistakes, they died. Now you can make mistakes and die later, when you should be dead sooner, or be neigh unkillable if you run any gimmicks or classes that have 3 to 4 strong traits such as sustained damage/burst damage, healing, mobility, CC and defense (for example spellbreaker).

This is why, I believe, so many twitchers became famous, because classes became strong as nails, allowed to be shenanigan-powered which was a good fertilizer for such players to show up - they always do when stuff gets buffed to the levels of one man army.

I've seen none of them pre-HoT.

 

P.S.

Besides those who complain on forums, there are those who actually hold some worth to the game-mode and try to see to improve it. The rest can stay in game and have their casual fun.

[Crab Fear.1624]

**How can anet keep its players?**

Keep the game free to play and charge for expansion and cash shop items only like they have been.

[Felipe.1807]

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> **How can anet keep its players?**

> Keep the game free to play and charge for expansion and cash shop items only like they have been.

 

You do know that we talking about sPvP players here right? Not PvE and not WvW, but sPvP only...you might not be aware, but the way they are handling things aint really working, it is know that the pvp population is getting lower and lower every time...reason why no matter how much they improve the matchmaking, its never gonna work...its pretty comon to have matches with plat and gold below players on the same match, and this is on prime time, prove enough that the population of the game is really low.

So no, focusing of gem store is not how you will solve sPvP(and WvW too) problems...that exactly how you make to get the rest of players to quit too.

[Crab Fear.1624]

> @"Felipe.1807" said:

> > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > **How can anet keep its players?**

> > Keep the game free to play and charge for expansion and cash shop items only like they have been.

>

> You do know that we talking about sPvP players here right? Not PvE and not WvW, but sPvP only...you might be aware, but the hey they are handling things aint really working, it is know that the pvp population is getting lower and lower every time...reason why no matter how much they improve the matchmaking, its never gonna work...its pretty comon to have matches with plat and gold below players on the same match, and this is on prime time, prove enough that the population of the game is really low.

> So no, focusing of gem store is not how you will solve sPvP(and WvW too) problems...that exactly how you make to get the rest of players to quit too.

 

Never had problem getting matches. Some "plat" players got there by using OP builds, some got there by inflated MMR due to team q. People are not quitting the game, just some drama queen streamers.

[Felipe.1807]

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > @"Felipe.1807" said:

> > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > **How can anet keep its players?**

> > > Keep the game free to play and charge for expansion and cash shop items only like they have been.

> >

> > You do know that we talking about sPvP players here right? Not PvE and not WvW, but sPvP only...you might be aware, but the hey they are handling things aint really working, it is know that the pvp population is getting lower and lower every time...reason why no matter how much they improve the matchmaking, its never gonna work...its pretty comon to have matches with plat and gold below players on the same match, and this is on prime time, prove enough that the population of the game is really low.

> > So no, focusing of gem store is not how you will solve sPvP(and WvW too) problems...that exactly how you make to get the rest of players to quit too.

>

> Never had problem getting matches. Some "plat" players got there by using OP builds, some got there by inflated MMR due to team q. People are not quitting the game, just some drama queen streamers.

 

Never said anything about queue times...talking about Legend players getting on match with plats, and gold below on matches with plats, this is common...myself allready played on matches with top players, and I am between plat tier 1 and 2...and this is happening on prime time, its clear proof that the game population is low.

[Crab Fear.1624]

> @"Felipe.1807" said:

> > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > @"Felipe.1807" said:

> > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > > **How can anet keep its players?**

> > > > Keep the game free to play and charge for expansion and cash shop items only like they have been.

> > >

> > > You do know that we talking about sPvP players here right? Not PvE and not WvW, but sPvP only...you might be aware, but the hey they are handling things aint really working, it is know that the pvp population is getting lower and lower every time...reason why no matter how much they improve the matchmaking, its never gonna work...its pretty comon to have matches with plat and gold below players on the same match, and this is on prime time, prove enough that the population of the game is really low.

> > > So no, focusing of gem store is not how you will solve sPvP(and WvW too) problems...that exactly how you make to get the rest of players to quit too.

> >

> > Never had problem getting matches. Some "plat" players got there by using OP builds, some got there by inflated MMR due to team q. People are not quitting the game, just some drama queen streamers.

>

> Never said anything about queue times...talking about Legend players getting on match with plats, and gold below on matches with plats, this is common...myself allready played on matches with top players, and I am between plat tier 1 and 2...and this is happening on prime time, its clear proof that the game population is low.

 

There are 5-6 legendary ranked players in NA. Sure alot are "close" but the curve is steep after page 1 on the leaderboards. Obviously the top 250 are all P1 and higher, but when I look around the Mists, at any given time, most are not standing around in the lobby. I see alot of golds and silvers, and a few plats. Maybe the people who have their plat + rank are not playing so much, or not playing during "prime time".

 

[Morwath.9817]

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > @"Felipe.1807" said:

> > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > > @"Felipe.1807" said:

> > > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > > > **How can anet keep its players?**

> > > > > Keep the game free to play and charge for expansion and cash shop items only like they have been.

> > > >

> > > > You do know that we talking about sPvP players here right? Not PvE and not WvW, but sPvP only...you might be aware, but the hey they are handling things aint really working, it is know that the pvp population is getting lower and lower every time...reason why no matter how much they improve the matchmaking, its never gonna work...its pretty comon to have matches with plat and gold below players on the same match, and this is on prime time, prove enough that the population of the game is really low.

> > > > So no, focusing of gem store is not how you will solve sPvP(and WvW too) problems...that exactly how you make to get the rest of players to quit too.

> > >

> > > Never had problem getting matches. Some "plat" players got there by using OP builds, some got there by inflated MMR due to team q. People are not quitting the game, just some drama queen streamers.

> >

> > Never said anything about queue times...talking about Legend players getting on match with plats, and gold below on matches with plats, this is common...myself allready played on matches with top players, and I am between plat tier 1 and 2...and this is happening on prime time, its clear proof that the game population is low.

>

> There are 5-6 legendary ranked players in NA. Sure alot are "close" but the curve is steep after page 1 on the leaderboards. Obviously the top 250 are all P1 and higher, but when I look around the Mists, at any given time, most are not standing around in the lobby. I see alot of golds and silvers, and a few plats. Maybe the people who have their plat + rank are not playing so much, or not playing during "prime time".

>

 

It's a bit different in EU, where you have 45 players above 1800 rating and the rest in top250 is like P2. Yet, you still see horrible matchmaking like Misha+golds vs high plats. Rather fishy and annoying in Quaggan opinion.

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

> @"Cynz.9437" said:

> It is too late now tbh.

> Game is powercreeped to hell. AoE, AoE, AoE, low CDs, too many overtuned spells/traits. Instead of being creative with specs they chose path of powercreep to enforce sales. Greed killed combat in this game (which had best combat in the genre).

> No pvp specific rewards tied to wins that players would REALLY want (e.g. special mount skin).

> No punishment for trolling/griefing/match manipulation etc.

> People are leaving.

> Wonkly MM becomes even more wonky because of lack of population. You get punished twice now: with imbalanced match and with absurd rank gain/loses because point calculation is based on assumption that match was balanced (realistically total bs by such population issues).

> People are leaving.

> They would have to reroll game to pre-HoT state and start over. Not going to happen.

 

http://hallofseries.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/copertina.gif

I am willing to w8 4,5 years and make Gaile + the chika Mod from Gigantic , unhappy :P

I wonder how the ''copy/adapt--tactic''-by Romans will work when there is no enemies

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

> @"MatchMan.3615" said:

> Arena does an amazing job with it's balance-

 


 

They need to actually do something. They need to have a dev dedicated to playing each particular class, and they need to play pvp consistently under untagged accounts, so they can see what people are doing in pvp.

 

Then every month, or every couple of months, they need to come together and discuss what people are running, what people arent running, and why with the intent of getting the game closer to the point of "Every class has at least some reason to being played". They need to be transparent with this process, open the floor to public comment, and then implement small changes frequently, to see what happens.

 

And they need to continuously do that. They won't though, because PVE is making the big money and by the time they actually need to care they would have made enough to pursue whatever other venture they have in mind. PVP is only a small fraction of the playerbase and nobody cares what we think, lmao.

 

 

 

 

[Burnfall.9573]

How can arena net keep it's players?

 

By putting what matters for the health of the game first, instead of toxicity.