The idea of elite specialization needs to be gone

[Hibiskus.8294]

I dont even know why i am posting here, since i really love the elite (ok shield from mesmer has an too high CD, but some nice skills)...

 

BUT: I dont like them the way they implemented them....since they are called elite you only can equip one...and that is totally ok for me....now for the "but":

 

Each of the old traitlines interlock with each other like well oiled gears....and since you must give up on one of the old traitlines to equip one of the elites this "well oiled gears" get sand into the gear strewn.... they simply dont interlock with each other the way the old traits have done....

Lets say i as mesmer played double sword / GS before, i got domination for CD reduce for GS, Dueling for the Buffs on the sword and inspiration since it has an amazing condi clean and you could swap it easy to focus...but when i now want chrono for the shield together with sword / GS/ focus.... i must equip chrono even if i just want to use the shield and that means i must give up on domination or dueling or inspiration....

 

So: why have they not introduce a fourth trait-slot wich is locked until you unlock the first elite? We got a new skill for the downstate, the slot is empty until you unlock the skill through the mastery track....

 

the chrono trait dont even have an CD reduce for shield because you can use F5 and shatter for alacrity...and i must say: why? why has the shield no CD reduce...it has an really high CD (and F5 has an really high cd too)...and every other weapon even the axe from mirage has an CD reduce in his traits...so my only reason to equip the chrono trait is the shield....i am not playing with wells, i play with mantras... and i am mostly single player so i must most time not support anyone...when i play in groups i switch my skills, weapons, etc....ok i gave up on the domination trait since GS can be used without...but still....

 

i wish i would not have to choose wich of the core traits i must loose to be able to equip the chrono....

[GrubySzymek.1362]

I didn't read all comments. Just wanted to point out two things.

 

1. I don't agree with you, I like elite specs and I want more.

2. Game is not P2W. Game is B2P which means buying expansions is expected from player to get full experience.

[eoz.1834]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> I didn't read all comments. Just wanted to point out two things.

>

> 1. I don't agree with you, I like elite specs and I want more.

> 2. Game is not P2W. Game is B2P which means buying expansions is expected from player to get full experience.

 

what is this full experience? I paid core game with hot expansion in total of $100 and I can only play herald rev in wvw (which map are not tied with any sort of expansion) if I want to keep up with meta. whoever only pays pof for $30 can play firebrand,scourge,weaver. its just example. the same goes for pvp, imagine you teamed up with vanilla condition necromancer instead a scourge. I'm not interested on "I must play new specs" but atleast don't come up with "here is new spec with this spec you can do x10000 better than the old spec at ease with same gameplay. don't worry we gonna make old specs so bad that you feel you are unique". the old trait system used to have some variety. this elite specs system just brings another gear treadmill which tied with expansion fee.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"eoz.1834" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > I didn't read all comments. Just wanted to point out two things.

> >

> > 1. I don't agree with you, I like elite specs and I want more.

> > 2. Game is not P2W. Game is B2P which means buying expansions is expected from player to get full experience.

>

> what is this full experience? I paid core game with hot expansion in total of $100 and I can only play herald rev in wvw (which map are not tied with any sort of expansion) if I want to keep up with meta. whoever only pays pof for $30 can play firebrand,scourge,weaver. its just example. the same goes for pvp, imagine you teamed up with vanilla condition necromancer instead a scourge. I'm not interested on "I must play new specs" but atleast don't come up with "here is new spec with this spec you can do x10000 better than the old spec at ease with same gameplay. don't worry we gonna make old specs so bad that you feel you are unique". the old trait system used to have some variety. this elite specs system just brings another gear treadmill which tied with expansion fee.

 

Old discussion, old arguments. Power creep is obvious consequence of expansion based game. It's not going to change, there must be something to push box sales. Also, the difference is not as big as you make it to be in your post. Yes, there is power difference between specs, and yes it's intended. Elite specs are supposed to define your build, core specs are there to complete the picture.

 

If you are fixated about being "meta" you should buy all expansions, just like you switch your gear.

[eoz.1834]

you can push sales by introducing new stuffs not recycling old ones. some people still sour due to getting living story package as an expansion. so they want their e-specs to be strong. also check the link. e-specs suppose to be new gameplays instead buffing the old one. 5yrs old game and still thief/ranger/engineer are not desirable for general wvw squads.

 

http://www.mmo-central.com/2015/09/28/overview-elite-specializations-guild-wars-2/

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"eoz.1834" said:

> you can push sales by introducing new stuffs not recycling old ones. some people still sour due to getting living story package as an expansion. so they want their e-specs to be strong. also check the link. e-specs suppose to be new gameplays instead buffing the old one. 5yrs old game and still thief/ranger/engineer are not desirable for general wvw squads.

>

> http://www.mmo-central.com/2015/09/28/overview-elite-specializations-guild-wars-2/

 

Of course not, because they're great for roaming, and should be used for that. If you're playing in a giant ass squad you want classes with lots of cleave, especially ranged cleave, or some support. Those classes don't provide much of that, but they are very moble, stealthy and great for small skirmishes, which makes them awesome for roaming.

 

Also, on the "meta" discussion... I often play with a friend that uses Reaper. I play scourge, and i play scourge kinda good, but usually when i pair up with him, he gets all 3 top stats that i usually get when i play without him. Reaper is actually a pretty good class to play still. It's just a bit harder than scourge.

Bunker tempests give me a lot of headaches, on par, if not more than Firebrands, because they can contest a point for days.

Core ranger is a great counter to scourges and spellbreakers, and druid is also a good bunker.

DD and Core thief are still as viable as they were pre-PoF, probably even better than DE.

Warrior is in a different spot. I mean spellbreaker was made for pvp, so it's no wonder that the other specs are worse off. But Berzerker is still king in PvE for warriors.

I could go on, but...

 

In the end, here's your problem... You're cheap. You want to have the full game without paying for it.

I've bought CORE (75€)

Bought HoT (100€)

and Bought PoF (75€), times two because i also bought the same things for my brother, and even pre-ordered the game for a friend that quit, so i use that account as an alt now.

And i did so, because i like the game, and i want to keep playing it, and because i understand that they need to keep the lights on and people fed. So i buy the stuff i want to play.

If you make the concious decision NOT TO BUY the expansions, you can't then come around and complain you can't play the stuff YOU DIDN'T BUY.

Is there power creep? Yes, there's some.

Will it end up being smoothed out in future balance? Very likely.

Are HoT classes obsolete? Nowhere near that! There's HoT classes that are still relevant, or even indispensable in ALL game modes.

 

Elite Specializations were one of the best ideas they added to the game!

I mean if this was like WoW you wouldn't be complaining that because you didn't get the expansion you can't do max level. And in there not only do you buy the expansion but you pay to play.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"eoz.1834" said:

> you can push sales by introducing new stuffs not recycling old ones. some people still sour due to getting living story package as an expansion. so they want their e-specs to be strong. also check the link. e-specs suppose to be new gameplays instead buffing the old one. 5yrs old game and still thief/ranger/engineer are not desirable for general wvw squads.

>

> http://www.mmo-central.com/2015/09/28/overview-elite-specializations-guild-wars-2/

 

I know about Colin talking about core and e-specs being equal at the beginning of HoT marketing campaign. It ended up being a lie obviously but at this point there is no reason to waste your time and expect this scheme to be changed.

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"eoz.1834" said:

> > you can push sales by introducing new stuffs not recycling old ones. some people still sour due to getting living story package as an expansion. so they want their e-specs to be strong. also check the link. e-specs suppose to be new gameplays instead buffing the old one. 5yrs old game and still thief/ranger/engineer are not desirable for general wvw squads.

> >

> > http://www.mmo-central.com/2015/09/28/overview-elite-specializations-guild-wars-2/

>

> I know about Colin talking about core and e-specs being equal at the beginning of HoT marketing campaign. It ended up being a lie obviously but at this point there is no reason to waste your time and expect this scheme to be changed.

 

This...^^^

[witcher.3197]

I think elite specs are definitely hurting the game, because Anet is constantly force to try new concepts and water down profession identity.

 

Making them stronger and stronger in PvP/WvW is almost inevitable and they already almost killed these areas of the game.

[Sarge shot Grif.6450]

Absolutely not, elite specs are one of the most revitalizing things they've added to the game in a long time.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

> @"Sarge shot Grif.6450" said:

> Absolutely not, elite specs are one of the most revitalizing things they've added to the game in a long time.

 

The thing is they break the balance too much and bad in long run

[battledrone.8315]

> @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > @"Sarge shot Grif.6450" said:

> > Absolutely not, elite specs are one of the most revitalizing things they've added to the game in a long time.

>

> The thing is they break the balance too much and bad in long run

 

yep, they can never balance all those builds , they couldnt even balance the core professions

elite specs are good for a quick cash grab, but will make the game suffer in the long run

 

[sorudo.9054]

> @"Sarge shot Grif.6450" said:

> Absolutely not, elite specs are one of the most revitalizing things they've added to the game in a long time.

 

and after a few future elite specs some profs have literally all weapons while others barely hit 1/4th of them, that's why the very idea is flawed in it's core.

[Sojourner.4621]

> @"eoz.1834" said:

> speaking of engineer, can you tell major gameplay change between holosmith and old power static discharge build? I feel there is no major change except filling gaps where old power static discharge build had. the old build had some trade-offs but with pof that trade-offs are gone.

>

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMyN3hclRjk

>

 

Biggest difference? New one has an extra hip fire equivalent and fills the empty spaces in between better... oh and can parse 30k DPS on a golem without any kits.

[Lunateric.3708]

**It's not a black and white situation**. Some vanilla builds are still BiS (condi vanilla engi over condi Holo) or actually resurfaced because of PoF (S/d core thief for ranked PvP for example). Some HoT specs are still widely popular (druid, berserker, chrono) while others have serious identity issues for any expansion (Scrapper for HoT, Deadeye for PoF).

 

People here are trying pretty hard to generalize a situation that can't be generalized. I have got worse news for you though:

 

**Perfect balance won't ever happen**.

 

If you can't deal with this undeniable fact that plagues every MMO that sucks for you.

[Aenesthesia.1697]

I think Elite Specs are a great idea. We get the equivalent to new professions, that is, bew ways of playing, but without the need to start a new toon, get new equipment, etc.

 

That being said, the elites need to be balanced so as not to be gamebreaking or mandatory.

[Dual.8953]

> @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > @"Sarge shot Grif.6450" said:

> > Absolutely not, elite specs are one of the most revitalizing things they've added to the game in a long time.

>

> and after a few future elite specs some profs have literally all weapons while others barely hit 1/4th of them, that's why the very idea is flawed in it's core.

 

You think they’ll run out of room to make more specs once a class achieves the ability to use all weapons? I don’t see why they couldn’t reuse weapons and give them different skills depending on the elite.

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Aenesthesia.1697" said:

> I think Elite Specs are a great idea. We get the equivalent to new professions, that is, bew ways of playing, but without the need to start a new toon, get new equipment, etc.

>

> That being said, the elites need to be balanced so as not to be gamebreaking or mandatory.

 

they are class evolution or supose to be a class diversification problem is... called Anet that want to make money from bad players hope to get carried with gimmicks rather than make money with a decent gamplay, also .. everything ends in the same results in condi stack or boon stack not mater if is a shout or a mantra, wich leaded to a stupid balance and low effort counters (FC, WoD+trait for example) within a awfull gameplay, wich also makes classes loose their depth and their own importance, all that matter is stack and spam.

 

2/10 for Anet quality in balance and class/skill design.

Still the noobs to whom the game was builded for love it... that is a 10/10.

 

lack of real mechanics and true diversification on utilities design....

[zealex.9410]

> @"Asum.4960" said:

> > @"Skyline Crash.6254" said:

> > > @"Klipso.8653" said:

> > > As long as one expansion doesn't make the old elite specializations obsolete. We have a decent mix atm between Hot and PoF specs. They're each useful in their own ways.

> > > A base core build should not be able to match 'elite specializations' as they are designed to be an advancement from the core class

> >

> > They have specifically said, when elite specializations came out, that they were meant to be sidegrades to the core spec.

>

> As far as I can recall, they were absolutely meant to be upgrades (therefore "Elite"), but be sidegrades to each other, filling different roles as more Elite Specs are added.

 

And that has been the case tbh. Druid, tempest, berserker all openned new way to play their respective class.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

What i am saying jut remove elite speces from game let all be core and fair and balance will be better for it i like elite spec but they really causes too much problems with balance

[Aenesthesia.1697]

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > @"Aenesthesia.1697" said:

> > I think Elite Specs are a great idea. We get the equivalent to new professions, that is, bew ways of playing, but without the need to start a new toon, get new equipment, etc.

> >

> > That being said, the elites need to be balanced so as not to be gamebreaking or mandatory.

>

> they are class evolution or supose to be a class diversification problem is... called Anet that want to make money from bad players hope to get carried with gimmicks rather than make money with a decent gamplay, also .. everything ends in the same results in condi stack or boon stack not mater if is a shout or a mantra, wich leaded to a stupid balance and low effort counters (FC, WoD+trait for example) within a awfull gameplay, wich also makes classes loose their depth and their own importance, all that matter is stack and spam.

>

> 2/10 for Anet quality in balance and class/skill design.

> Still the noobs to whom the game was builded for love it... that is a 10/10.

>

> lack of real mechanics and true diversification on utilities design....

 

yes, the problem seems to be with the need to have every spec viable for every game mode, so you have skills that do 100 things at the same time, stupid procs that buff, debuff, and apply condi and damage all at once, which ends up in a spam fest.

 

I was defending the concept of new specs for every profession, not the implementation, specially when it's broken (but in some cases it worked. Reaper, for example, made necros viable in spvp and fun to play in PVE).

[zealex.9410]

> @"Aenesthesia.1697" said:

> > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > > @"Aenesthesia.1697" said:

> > > I think Elite Specs are a great idea. We get the equivalent to new professions, that is, bew ways of playing, but without the need to start a new toon, get new equipment, etc.

> > >

> > > That being said, the elites need to be balanced so as not to be gamebreaking or mandatory.

> >

> > they are class evolution or supose to be a class diversification problem is... called Anet that want to make money from bad players hope to get carried with gimmicks rather than make money with a decent gamplay, also .. everything ends in the same results in condi stack or boon stack not mater if is a shout or a mantra, wich leaded to a stupid balance and low effort counters (FC, WoD+trait for example) within a awfull gameplay, wich also makes classes loose their depth and their own importance, all that matter is stack and spam.

> >

> > 2/10 for Anet quality in balance and class/skill design.

> > Still the noobs to whom the game was builded for love it... that is a 10/10.

> >

> > lack of real mechanics and true diversification on utilities design....

>

> yes, the problem seems to be with the need to have every spec viable for every game mode, so you have skills that do 100 things at the same time, stupid procs that buff, debuff, and apply condi and damage all at once, which ends up in a spam fest.

>

> I was defending the concept of new specs for every profession, not the implementation, specially when it's broken (but in some cases it worked. Reaper, for example, made necros viable in spvp and fun to play in PVE).

 

Pof specs were made to be stronger in certain parts of the game. Not every part of it.