Shattering the Status Quo

[Jojo.6140]

Can someone explain why active gameplay is considered better than passive gameplay? Some people might enjoy a more laid-back and chilled gaming-experience, why would that be bad?

[Faffin.6741]

> @"Lishtenbird.2814" said:

> I don't like this. I'm tired of more APM required everywhere the further the game goes, it doesn't excite me, it drives me away more and more.

 

Me too.

[Haleydawn.3764]

> @"Jojo.6140" said:

> Can someone explain why active gameplay is considered better than passive gameplay? Some people might enjoy a more laid-back and chilled gaming-experience, why would that be bad?

 

--stares at afk farmers---

 

 

[Oglaf.1074]

> @"ThePlayMaker.1058" said:

> > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > Awww... no longer just summoning 3 Duelists and afking at world bosses...

>

> I get the meme, but this was never really possible. Most world bosses destroy your duelists fairly quickly. But anyway, less afking possible from mesmers.

 

Meme? I literally rolled a Mesmer alt a few days ago and it is all I've been doing during these fights. I wasn't aware it was a meme.

[Lalainnia.3598]

What does this mean for chronos Chronophantasma trait?

[Laila Lightness.8742]

> @"Robert Gee.9246" said:

> > @"Shayd.9648" said:

> > Is this going to be a loss in DPS for condi mirage in raid? This is a huge concern that has come up with my guildies since much of the sustained dps is coming from the phantasms. If it is, many of them are thinking of ditching it altogether. In my opinion that would be sad as condi mirage was almost the only viable dps for raid as a Mesmer.

> We're expecting rotations to change for DPS mesmer builds. Clones builds now have more flexibility to summon phantasms, and shattering in general will be more usable, but there may be damage losses from other changes. We're looking forward to seeing what new builds appear and will continue to make adjustments if things end up too far out of line (in either direction).

 

Honestly i think best option would be remoce phatasm we wont be using them anyway just a wasted slot on shitty effect

[Jojo.6140]

> @"Haleydawn.3764" said:

> > @"Jojo.6140" said:

> > Can someone explain why active gameplay is considered better than passive gameplay? Some people might enjoy a more laid-back and chilled gaming-experience, why would that be bad?

>

> --stares at afk farmers---

>

>

 

The mesmer profession was never used to afk farm something though, right?

[Lunaria.1543]

Alacrity Gaile, not alacity at the end of the post.

[Sharen Graves.1276]

So since Raids/Fractals play mesmer in an afk mode. WVW and PVP suffers. nice.......

[Truthbearer.9708]

So phantasms get the Guardian spirit weapon treatment? How did that work out?

 

And how active is the gameplay of minion Necro builds and turret Engineers? Considering turrets were changed to make them even more passive and removing the ability to decide when to overload them.

 

When I started this game back in 2012 I was planning to play Guardian, but fell in love with Mesmer and its gameplay, turning it in my main and most played profession instantly. Thank you for destroying that.

[Stunned Duck.8725]

What, then, was the point of introducing illusion retargeting with PoF? If the general goal is to A. make play more click intensive, so to speak, and B. get rid of the tension between resource expenditure and slower effect buildup, why have a mechanic for extending a clone's already brief existence by an ever-decreasing amount of time as gameplay speed spirals ever upward?

[Hydlide.7954]

Cool. Now maybe nerf the fact that Necros can just AOE condi a point making it impossible to take in a mode where taking points is part of the game and we'll be in business.

[SloRules.3560]

So can i shatter a phantasm before it becomes a clone?

[Truthbearer.9708]

> @"Stunned Duck.8725" said:

> What, then, was the point of introducing illusion retargeting with PoF? If the general goal is to A. make play more click intensive, so to speak, and B. get rid of the tension between resource expenditure and slower effect buildup, why have a mechanic for extending a clone's already brief existence by an ever-decreasing amount of time as gameplay speed spirals ever upward?

 

Not to mention adding traits such as Phantasmal Force.

[TastyTofu.3597]

There goes the hope Mesmer ever being a dps class I guess. Thanks anet, I really regret leveling my Mesmer now.

[Lalainnia.3598]

Illusion re targeting is still perfectly fine as you can re target your clones im guessing like they stated traits that heavily involved phants traits are getting overhauled.

[Yukio blaster.9082]

> @"Swagger.1459" said:

> > @"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

> > A message from Robert Gee, Guild Wars 2 Systems Team:

> >

> > Today I wanted to give you all a heads up on some important changes coming to the mesmer profession in the coming update. These changes affect phantasms, which are a core part of the mesmer profession mechanic (illusions) and as a result, will have a large effect on how the mesmer profession plays after the update.

> >

> > In one sentence, these changes can be summed up as, "Phantasms become clones after their initial attack."

> >

> > Here are the specific details of how it works:

> >

> > - Phantasms no longer will persist indefinitely. Instead, a phantasm will attack once and then automatically be destroyed. If interrupted during its attack the phantasm also will be destroyed.

> > - Phantasms still can be targeted by skills and take damage while alive. Phantasms can be destroyed by damaging skills before they finish their attack.

> > - A destroyed phantasm will be replaced with a clone based on your current weapon set. This clone will spawn regardless of how the phantasm was destroyed. The clone is spawned at the location of the phantasm at the time it was destroyed.

> > - Shatter skills no longer destroy phantasms, and phantasms no longer count towards the maximum illusion limit.

> >

> > This is a pretty large gameplay shift so I wanted to talk a little bit about why we are doing this and what it means for your mesmer gameplay.

> >

> > ## The Illusion of Choice

> >

> > Mesmers always have had a tension between clones and phantasms; this tension was designed into the profession when the game launched. The idea was that shattering clones would be good for burst damage while leaving phantasms active would be an option for sustained damage. Choosing whether or not to shatter was intended to be one of the core decision points for those playing mesmer.

> >

> > However we've discovered as the game has developed and evolved that providing this tension usually ends up removing the incentive to use the profession's core mechanic and leads to more passive gameplay. This can be seen in a lot of "optimized" builds for mesmers involving summoning three phantasms and then auto-attacking for extended periods of time in order to avoid destroying the phantasms by using another illusion skill.

> >

> > ## Mirrored Gameplay

> >

> > In the past, we've made some corrections to professions with this type gameplay as seen with the changes to the warrior's Adrenal Health and Berserker's Power traits, which previously rewarded saving adrenaline over spending it. Phantasms are a mechanic entirely based on discouraging the use of shatter skills and as a result, correcting this has touched a larger number of skills and traits than it did for warrior. However our primary goal with these changes is the same: to create a more active profession gameplay loop that rewards spending profession resources over saving them. For mesmer this means play patterns which revolve around generating and shattering clones while phantasms can be summoned for utility, bursts of damage, or some combination of the two.

> >

> > ## Power Return

> >

> > Because the power level of phantasm skills and traits usually assume that the phantasm will not be destroyed immediately, we have done an extensive balance pass on all skills and traits related to phantasms as well as several related traits and skills. We've also taken this opportunity to re-evaluate some of the under-performing phantasms to rework them into more impactful skills. For example, the Phantasmal Defender skill now taunts foes instead of buffing allies and the Phantasmal Warlock skill summons two phantasms, each with a new attack.

> >

> > ## Phantasmal Feedback

> >

> > While we're committed to making this change to phantasms as we feel it will improve the gameplay health of the mesmer profession, we also recognize that there will be an adjustment period where players will need to adapt to these changes. This is one of the largest changes we've undertaken for a single profession short of creating new specializations, and we realize that it may be jarring to some players. We'll be watching the feedback on our official forums after these changes go live and make adjustments where necessary.

> >

> > P.S. I'm sure that at least a few of you are wondering what this phantasm change means for Chronomancers in raids because the phantasmal avenger is a key component of keeping up alacrity for the party. For more information, please read today's [forum post about alacity](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/26685/alacrity-time-for-a-change "forum post about alacity").

>

> I would also like to suggest that phantasms and clones look completely different than the player character, and more like transparent forms that are visually identifiable. Why? because it's too advantageous in wvw and spvp for a medium base HP class (15k), that can burst for 22k (24k was my most recent incoming damage on a full trailblazer necro) in 3 seconds on a max toughness target, that also has great mobility AND stealth options... Players shouldn't have to waste 3-5 seconds determining who the actual target is, they should be focused on skill decision making.

>

> This is what I mean....

>

>

 

So what the point of making clones than can make 50 damage!!! and why did anet made mirage and removed the dodge animation so it's became harder to recognise the real one if you change the look of the clones to be like phantasms then you are out of the track .

[Kylden Ar.3724]

> @"Lalainnia.3598" said:

> What does this mean for chronos Chronophantasma trait?

 

Yes, we need to know this.

 

 

[Me Games Ma.8426]

@"Robert Gee.9246"

You don't know how much I've been waiting for a change like this. I've been hoping for such a rework for quite a while now. Shattering is a very cool mechanic and even if the mirage probably won't be utilizing it I still think it's one of the best changes you could have made.

**Three Questions:**

Phantasmal Fury: Will this stay? I'd love to see it be changed now that it is rather the mesmer instead of a "pet" attacking constantly.

Chronophantasma: The most obvious option would be to have phantasms attack twice, is that correct?

Are changes to other skills' damage values planned? (as the text only refers to "all skills and traits **related to phantasms**")

[Xyonon.3987]

**Tides of Time was a core skill for producing Quickness aswell.** Wouldn't it be possible to **instead remove the power damage** completely? The Quickness (and Alacrity now) from this skill affects the whole party if positioned right and since the shield isn't an offensive weapon anyway, why not shift it to more support?

 

It would be very bad for build diversity otherwise. I really enjoy being able to **play accoringly to the Raid boss** - like sometimes less than 100% boon duration or duelling/illusion. It would be sad to see only one build viable from now on, don't you think?

 

What about **Danger Time slow uptime**? Do the iAvengers now apply 4s slow instead of 2s to still provide a good uptime of slow? I think that would ne necessary.

 

---

 

Aside from that, as a minmaxing Raid Chrono / Mirage myself I don't automatically say "that's new and bad!" I wanna see the numbers and try new stuff. I just want to keep up about the same numbers and diversity, so I'm curious.

 

I hope my questions get answered from you Robert Gee! >:3

[Oglaf.1074]

> @"Xyonon.3987" said:

>

> Aside from that, as a minmaxing Raid Chrono / Mirage myself I don't automatically say "that's new and bad!" I wanna see the numbers and try new stuff. I just want to keep up about the same numbers and diversity, so I'm curious.

>

> I hope my questions get answered from you Robert Gee! >:3

 

Well, Mr. Gee already told you to expect a DPS loss though so...

 

 

[LadyKitty.6120]

Are you otherwise boosting damage skills and making phantasms do powerful single attacks? 'Cause excluding condi axe mirage, clone builds have been terribly weak compared to what phantasm builds have been, even as mirage. And even then, phantasm builds have hardly been competent compared to DPS builds of other classes in PVE. Since clones hardly do any damage themselves, the mesmer itself needs some serious damage boosts if it's meant to stay even remotely an option, even more so when thinking about those mesmers who don't have PoF yet and thus can't even use ambushs. And if the phantasms will work like mentioned in OP, that also means a damage boost for already very powerful condi clone axe mirage which will require a massive nerf if you're going to make other clone builds builds even remotely competent with these changes.

 

Guess mesmer builds will be the first ones Kitty benchmarks after the balance patch. She has weapons already for all the possible weapon combinations so she can get quite complete results of the numbers to share after the change (though slightly lower than the better benchmarkers but those better benchmarkers haven't released any numbers of alternative weapon combinations this far so...). Kitty will make a thread on these forums after she's got the numbers.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

Why arent anet nerfing ranger spirits who is so broken those spirits need this treatment

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

> @"Gaile Gray.6029" said:This can be seen in a lot of "optimized" builds for mesmers involving summoning three phantasms and then auto-attacking for extended periods of time in order to avoid destroying the phantasms by using another illusion skill.

 

This is the very reason why I don't use Phantasm, they are too passive and boring. I'm looking forward to testing these new features.

 

[Haleydawn.3764]

> @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > @"Xyonon.3987" said:

> >

> > Aside from that, as a minmaxing Raid Chrono / Mirage myself I don't automatically say "that's new and bad!" I wanna see the numbers and try new stuff. I just want to keep up about the same numbers and diversity, so I'm curious.

> >

> > I hope my questions get answered from you Robert Gee! >:3

>

> Well, Mr. Gee already told you to expect a DPS loss though so...

>

>

 

Which is laughable considering Mesmers are renowned for abyssmally low sustained power DPS anyway. This change will affect Mesmer, regardless of how that damage is output, it just wont affect the Condi Mirage build all that much I don't think, partly because it doesn't rely on Phantasms.

Sounds like a nail in the coffin for Power players.