Shattering the Status Quo

[Stunned Duck.8725]

> @"Lalainnia.3598" said:

> Illusion re targeting is still perfectly fine as you can re target your clones im guessing like they stated traits that heavily involved phants traits are getting overhauled.

 

Sure, but why bother? Why have a retargeting mechanic when there's no real incentive to keep your current illusions in play? I suppose you could try to track your clone targeting closely enough (in the middle of all the other things you're thinking about) to flip three existing clones from a target that is about to die to a target that has a full health bar just before shattering them, presumably to maximize damage effects, but this would be a lot of cognitive effort for not much gain, and runs counter to the stated goal of making the game (on the whole) more instinctive and less cerebral.

[viquing.8254]

Hello,

I have just a question who bothered me : Will the health of illusions remain the same ? Or are you planned somes reworks about it in your re-evaluation ?

[Oglaf.1074]

> @"Haleydawn.3764" said:

> > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > > @"Xyonon.3987" said:

> > >

> > > Aside from that, as a minmaxing Raid Chrono / Mirage myself I don't automatically say "that's new and bad!" I wanna see the numbers and try new stuff. I just want to keep up about the same numbers and diversity, so I'm curious.

> > >

> > > I hope my questions get answered from you Robert Gee! >:3

> >

> > Well, Mr. Gee already told you to expect a DPS loss though so...

> >

> >

>

> Which is laughable considering Mesmers are renowned for abyssmally low sustained power DPS anyway. This change will affect Mesmer, regardless of how that damage is output, it just wont affect the Condi Mirage build all that much I don't think, partly because it doesn't rely on Phantasms.

> Sounds like a nail in the coffin for Power players.

 

Pretty sure Phantasms w/ Phantasmal Strength is a staple for Condi Mirage.

 

Duelist builds it up real nice and stacks the Bleeds through the roof for a nice bit of damage.

 

It is a huge nerf to the current core "mechanic" of the build AFAIK.

[Hibiskus.8294]

Wait, Wait, Wait a second? Am i right: No more 3 Phantasm out at a time for good pve fights? (I used the inspiration trait for more live and signet), whats up with them?

Clones die like flys, make zero dmg (expect when i shatter them, but with no dmg a clone will never keep aggro away from me for a single second...

Also when the Phantasm shatters automatic, will it just create a clone or will that shatter also hurt enemies?

 

also what is with the traits that provided more attacks in a shorter time for a phantasm but not for a clone (illusion trait: Phantasmal haste)?

That Trait sounds for a "single attack" more useless then before....

(also what is with the traits in general that are just based for phantasms, you will need to change them...see phantasmal force, you implemented it not long time ago and i liked it really, but now it is useless......)

 

In exchange, are clones getting more life and attack power since they do no dmg?

I liked it to keep up my phantasms...(ok i also shatter them often to clear conditions, since i always use the inspiration trait to clear condi)....

 

Also no changes to scepter? Will it be always be single traget?

(would be cool if the clones from auto shatter themself when you have 3 up and make dmg to all enemies nearby)...

 

And no changes to Staff? At least, for the weak and slow auto attack(faster projectiles, faster cast time..maybe a bit more power dmg)?

(That was something i hoped for, not this...now i have fear....that my beloved class is maybe too different after this...maybe it will be good, i will test it but oh dear, as i heard "exited mesmer changes" i was like...that can be good, but i have a bad feeling about this...)

Ok, some ppl asked about some more Dmg on GS (or at least more aoe)....but my hope was staff changes, since that last poll in the mesmer forum...

 

And what was with the 3rd mantra charge will we get it back as default? I liked that trait.....

(also i never wait for them to recharge, takes way too long, ammo system: i dont use it, casting new is more effective and since we just have 2 charges.....)

 

No changes for sword? (yes you heard right sword, not dmg, not attack speed, but a little bit more movement while using the skills, without canceling them, also i was hoping that skill 3 gets a little rework: same mechanik, same dmg, same Cooldown, but instead of making it ground based and short ranged, make it to "throw an illusionary sword at your target (when it hits same effekts as skill 3 is now: possibilty to swap for a short time the place with the clone)..also make it more ranged...since it is ground based AND short ranged, it fails often, the red line under the skill sometimes dont show up, but since the ground is a little uneven (or the enemie moves a really little bit, it has a ( felt) chance from 60 / 70 to not spawn a clone and going on CD while it feels just like a chance from 40 / 30 to spawn a clone and get the "change position" skill...

 

After writing this i will go straight to the alacrity thread that you mentioned above....

i hope you can answer the questions, (also sorry if my english is a little weird, i an german, but german forum is not really much going on, so i am always here).

[Kencussion.9273]

If you already have 3 clones and summon a Phantasm - what happens to it after it uses its attack and is destroyed? Does it just stay destroyed (so your clones keep the weapon you WANT on them), or will it replace a clone (with a weapon you don't want)?

 

Also, will the max number of clones be increased or remain the same?

[Haleydawn.3764]

> @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> Pretty sure Phantasms w/ Phantasmal Strength is a staple for Condi Mirage.

 

For the Phant Build which uses both Phantasmal Force and Haste traits, which does ~10k less DPS than the Clone build, which everyone plays because of the November Changes which made this build trump the phantasm build in nearly all situations.

 

Which is why I am hoping Anet looks at Mesmers POWER DPS output in comparison to other professions and decides to make some very needed changes.

 

[Pyroatheist.9031]

> @"Kencussion.9273" said:

> If you already have 3 clones and summon a Phantasm - what happens to it after it uses its attack and is destroyed? Does it just stay destroyed (so your clones keep the weapon you WANT on them), or will it replace a clone (with a weapon you don't want)?

>

> Also, will the max number of clones be increased or remain the same?

 

Presumably it'll act the same way any clone generation skill acts now: oldest gets overwritten.

[witcher.3197]

You have just singlehandedly deleted Chronomancer from PvP, great job guys..

[SapphireNeko.9170]

Just to clarify, am I correct in understanding that phantasms will be "buffed" or essentially increase in damage/performance due to their single attack/use?

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

> @"Jojo.6140" said:

> > @"Haleydawn.3764" said:

> > > @"Jojo.6140" said:

> > > Can someone explain why active gameplay is considered better than passive gameplay? Some people might enjoy a more laid-back and chilled gaming-experience, why would that be bad?

> >

> > --stares at afk farmers---

> >

> >

>

> The mesmer profession was never used to afk farm something though, right?

 

Right, but discouraging passive gameplay is nevertheless a good thing. I'd say if you want passive gameplay, go watch a YouTube gamer do his thing. That's about as passive as it gets.

[Robert Gee.9246]

> @"Me Games Ma.8426" said:

> @"Robert Gee.9246"

> You don't know how much I've been waiting for a change like this. I've been hoping for such a rework for quite a while now. Shattering is a very cool mechanic and even if the mirage probably won't be utilizing it I still think it's one of the best changes you could have made.

> **Three Questions:**

> Phantasmal Fury: Will this stay? I'd love to see it be changed now that it is rather the mesmer instead of a "pet" attacking constantly.

> Chronophantasma: The most obvious option would be to have phantasms attack twice, is that correct?

> Are changes to other skills' damage values planned? (as the text only refers to "all skills and traits **related to phantasms**")

Phantasmal Fury is still there, we felt that 20% crit chance on your phantasm attack still had value so we left the trait alone.

Chronophantasma is more or less what you're describing, it allows the phantasm to attack a second time, becoming a clone after the second attack.

Many skills have been changed in this pass, we focused on skills related to phantasms but some other skills needed to be adjusted as well.

 

> @"Kencussion.9273" said:

> Curious, if you already have 3 clones and summon a Phantasm - what happens to it after it uses its attack and is destroyed? Does it just stay destroyed (so your clones keep the weapon you WANT on them), or will it replace a clone (with a weapon you don't want)?

>

> Also, will the max number of clones be increased or remain the same?

If you have 3 clones and summon a phantasm, that phantasm will become a clone and replace one of your existing clones. Shatter before that happens!

 

Max clone count is 3.

 

> @"viquing.8254" said:

> Hello,

> I have just a question who bothered me : Will the health of illusions remain the same ? Or are you planned somes reworks about it in your re-evaluation ?

Illusion health has not changed.

[flog.3485]

> @"Jojo.6140" said:

> Can someone explain why active gameplay is considered better than passive gameplay? Some people might enjoy a more laid-back and chilled gaming-experience, why would that be bad?

 

Because it is boring to play a passive gameplay in a game that promotes active combat ?

[GWMO.4785]

am i the only one that is super worried about swapping my main class/profession/spec? i mean:

 

> @"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

> - Phantasms no longer will persist indefinitely. Instead, a phantasm will attack once and then automatically be destroyed. If interrupted during its attack the phantasm also will be destroyed.

> - A destroyed phantasm will be replaced with a clone based on your current weapon set. This clone will spawn regardless of how the phantasm was destroyed. The clone is spawned at the location of the phantasm at the time it was destroyed.

 

Avenger phantasm? main source of alacrity? Sure we have wells as well. but this is our main source for upkeeping it. less alacrity means less quickness. Which kinda takes away the point of taking mesmer in party in the first place. In a other post i also have read that alacrity will become a boon instead of a buff. Thanks for that also.. I understand that mesmer (chrono) was a prominant class for raiding, and you wanted to make some changes to it. but i mean.. you litterely killed it.

[Oglaf.1074]

> @"Robert Gee.9246" said:

> Phantasmal Fury is still there, we felt that 20% crit chance on your phantasm attack still had value so we left the trait alone.

> Chronophantasma is more or less what you're describing, it allows the phantasm to attack a second time, becoming a clone after the second attack.

 

 

What about Phantasmal Force?

[Haleydawn.3764]

> @"GWMO.4785" said:

> am i the only one that is super worried about swapping my main class/profession/spec? i mean:

 

Ironically I hung my Chrono boots up last week in favour of Spellbreaker for Fractals. #noregretsnow

I'll most likely stat swap her for Clone Mirage as soon as I'm done with my current in-game goal.

 

[Obtena.7952]

Another example to put into my back pocket of how Anet wants to encourage players to make meaningful choices. Have to remember these when people ask for the 'want it all' weapon, skill or trait.

[Knamliss.9148]

> @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> What about SIgnet of the Ether? Won't it lose all viability with Phantasms just blowing themselves up?

 

Not if the attack they give off is powerful enough. Higher burst, but lower sustain I suppose.

[Blinkin The Blind.3190]

Played the game for roughly 8,500 hours since launch and mostly in wvw. About 3,400 of those hours have been on Mesmer. I originally learned to play Mesmer as a phantasmal mantra support Mesmer. Not only was it an easy way of learning the class, but it also allowed for abstract thinking. Since tank or support Mesmer didn't seem plausible to other players at the time. Years later now I only play power shatter chrono.

Even if I no longer use the previous phantasm builds that I had, and no longer rely on their support mechanics, I still can't say that I endorse these sudden changes. Much less a change of this magnitude this late in the game. By which I'm including the alterations of Alacrity.

[zealex.9410]

@"Robert Gee.9246" in the case of pve has the dmg that will be lost by having the phantasms being 1 attack only gone anywhere else to balance out that loss of good sustained dps? Into the phantasms themselves (for that 1 attack) or through their cd being sagnifically reduced or by buffing the shatter dmg or even by buffing the clone's dmg so even power dps mesmer plays out like mirage does now? Pve split always (the shatter dmg and the phantasm dmg)

[Solori.6025]

> @"Robert Gee.9246" said:

> > @"Me Games Ma.8426" said:

> > @"Robert Gee.9246"

> > You don't know how much I've been waiting for a change like this. I've been hoping for such a rework for quite a while now. Shattering is a very cool mechanic and even if the mirage probably won't be utilizing it I still think it's one of the best changes you could have made.

> > **Three Questions:**

> > Phantasmal Fury: Will this stay? I'd love to see it be changed now that it is rather the mesmer instead of a "pet" attacking constantly.

> > Chronophantasma: The most obvious option would be to have phantasms attack twice, is that correct?

> > Are changes to other skills' damage values planned? (as the text only refers to "all skills and traits **related to phantasms**")

> Phantasmal Fury is still there, we felt that 20% crit chance on your phantasm attack still had value so we left the trait alone.

> Chronophantasma is more or less what you're describing, it allows the phantasm to attack a second time, becoming a clone after the second attack.

> Many skills have been changed in this pass, we focused on skills related to phantasms but some other skills needed to be adjusted as well.

>

> > @"Kencussion.9273" said:

> > Curious, if you already have 3 clones and summon a Phantasm - what happens to it after it uses its attack and is destroyed? Does it just stay destroyed (so your clones keep the weapon you WANT on them), or will it replace a clone (with a weapon you don't want)?

> >

> > Also, will the max number of clones be increased or remain the same?

> If you have 3 clones and summon a phantasm, that phantasm will become a clone and replace one of your existing clones. Shatter before that happens!

>

> Max clone count is 3.

 

Wait...

So instead of the system we have now where if you summon a phantasm while having 3 clones it replaces a clone..

 

If you summon a phantasm in the new system while you have max clones it'll just become a clone and not do any phantasm skill?!?!

 

I don't think that would be wise in the future and you may end up going back the previous system.

We have seen in the past what happens when you end up wasting a phantasm skill, the community not only hated it, but praised you when you finally changed it.

I don't think reverting back to the initial system would be wise at this point in time.

 

Edit:

But if you guys are hellbent on making that change could we at least have a weekend to test it and deliver feedback?

 

[sleepy.2147]

> @"flog.3485" said:

> > @"Jojo.6140" said:

> > Can someone explain why active gameplay is considered better than passive gameplay? Some people might enjoy a more laid-back and chilled gaming-experience, why would that be bad?

>

> Because it is boring to play a passive gameplay in a game that promotes active combat ?

 

One mans boring is another's fun. Some people like to go ice fishing after all.

Good game design would allow for both play styles in letting passive play result in acceptable/ok DPS, yet making active play result in great/best possible DPS. Simple effort vs reward.

 

 

[vexx.2389]

Hi here !

I'm pretty excited about this change and I have a simple question : Did traits like [shattered Strength] [seize the Moment] or [Flow of Time] gain a rework too ? Like giving boons to your allies no just to yourself. Because they seems really weak in comparison of the other choices you have, and this may give more value to this new mesmer pro-shatter.

[Robert Gee.9246]

> @"Solori.6025" said:

> Wait...

> So instead of the system we have now where if you summon a phantasm while having 3 clones it replaces a clone..

>

> If you summon a phantasm in the new system while you have max clones it'll just become a clone and not do any phantasm skill?!?!

No, the phantasm will always attack. Then it will become a clone. If you have max clones at this point, it will replace an existing clone.

 

[Solori.6025]

> @"Robert Gee.9246" said:

> > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > Wait...

> > So instead of the system we have now where if you summon a phantasm while having 3 clones it replaces a clone..

> >

> > If you summon a phantasm in the new system while you have max clones it'll just become a clone and not do any phantasm skill?!?!

> No, the phantasm will always attack. Then it will become a clone. If you have max clones at this point, it will replace an existing clone.

>

 

Ok _Phew_ you had me a lil scared there.

Thanks for the response

[EpicTurtle.8571]

It will be interesting to see how the class plays now since actively shattering and summoning phantasms will work together rather than against each other.