Why reaper arent viable in wvw roaming (analysis)

[Zero.3871]

> @"Dace.8173" said:

>

> **Reaper is doing ok**. It's been shown in prior discussions to be the case. **Folks have posted video footage of it happening**. Unless one is going to argue those videos are faked its really hard to get around the fact that Reaper, when played to its strengths, does well in PvP.

 

I dont think reaper is doing fine after the latest nerfs. since reaper is obivously nearly abandoned in wvw zerg, smallscale. necro in general is also often bullied in PvE, what is shown in other threads often enough. you mentioned Video footage, but Videos Show absolutely Nothing. you can fight 999 times and loose and in your Video you Show the 1 time in 1000 where your class wins. and since most Video Montage creators only Show the rare Moments when they win and barely Show the Moments they get just stomped it is obvious that such a source of Information is invalid.

 

reaper can perform okayish in pvp IF babysitted because People HAVE TO PUSH your Position in conquer Points. so

1.) the lack in mobility is not that big of a deal if you Play your role and fight around the capture points

2.) you can Play with wells (granting sustain and doing good dmg when people stay in it) since most opponents stay in wells because they try to hold the capture Points.

 

but in wvw roaming, and that was my Primary Point of view, **reaper did very well until pof release**. it was a class that neither over performed nor completely dominated the small scale Scene in wvw. **so why did reaper got nerfed to a Point where a well balanced class get completely unviable?**

 

we have skill plit in this game, yes, reapers weak Points:

 

-low mobility (not that big deal in spvp) but BIG DEAL in wvw. since wvw enviroment is completely different to spvp Maps. you have wide open Terrain and no one HAS TO push you.

-lack of stability you can handel with support in pvp but is problematic if you solo roam (solo=no supporter next to you)

 

e.g., druid has 10 sec cd on cel.avatar in wvw but 20 sec in pvp,

warrior defy pain has way higher cooldown in spvp (90s) than in wvw (60s)

 

why does every nerf for spvp also hit reapers in wvw where some weaknesses of reaper have way more impact? while other classes got skillsplitted so they can perform well in different gamemodes and reaper not?

 

in one post you say soulbeast and Mirage powercreep isnt good, but anet deny any nerf to that powercreep MEANS, they are fine with it. they are fine with Mirage and soulbeast haveing massive mobility, dmg (oneshoot potential), Sustain in 1 build. since 14 month this classes perform in that way and Nothing happened to Change it.

Problem is that **anet SET STANDARDS** at this Points for balancing. if YOU say powercreep isnt good, ANET say its fine by not nerfing These classes and proving you wrong. so if that is allowed, all classes should have the Chance to work in that way, because it is the Standard anet set for the games balancing. simple.

[Dace.8173]

> @"Zero.3871" said:

> > @"Dace.8173" said:

> >

> > **Reaper is doing ok**. It's been shown in prior discussions to be the case. **Folks have posted video footage of it happening**. Unless one is going to argue those videos are faked its really hard to get around the fact that Reaper, when played to its strengths, does well in PvP.

>

> I dont think reaper is doing fine after the latest nerfs. since reaper is obivously nearly abandoned in wvw zerg, smallscale. necro in general is also often bullied in PvE, what is shown in other threads often enough. you mentioned Video footage, but Videos Show absolutely Nothing. you can fight 999 times and loose and in your Video you Show the 1 time in 1000 where your class wins. and since most Video Montage creators only Show the rare Moments when they win and barely Show the Moments they get just stomped it is obvious that such a source of Information is invalid.

>

 

Really? I still see plenty of Reapers when I'm in WvW. As for videos, they exist. When it works it has shown to have worked. Claiming that it's 1 time out of 1000 is hyperbolic. That's a really weak way to rebuttal videos as opposed to demonstrating they are wrong.

 

 

> reaper can perform okayish in pvp IF babysitted because People HAVE TO PUSH your Position in conquer Points. so

> 1.) the lack in mobility is not that big of a deal if you Play your role and fight around the capture points

> 2.) you can Play with wells (granting sustain and doing good dmg when people stay in it) since most opponents stay in wells because they try to hold the capture Points.

>

> but in wvw roaming, and that was my Primary Point of view, **reaper did very well until pof release**. it was a class that neither over performed nor completely dominated the small scale Scene in wvw. **so why did reaper got nerfed to a Point where a well balanced class get completely unviable?**

>

 

I really don't see it as unviable. It could be better but I think unviable is a stretch.

 

> we have skill plit in this game, yes, reapers weak Points:

>

> -low mobility (not that big deal in spvp) but BIG DEAL in wvw. since wvw enviroment is completely different to spvp Maps. you have wide open Terrain and no one HAS TO push you.

 

Mobility can be mitigated. Reaper isn't the only low mobility spec in WvW that sees play. Guardian/Firebrand/Dragonhunter lack mobility too and all have to find ways to keep up. Renegade lacks mobility as well. Mobility is an issue for others and everyone who doesn't have it has to find ways to make it work.

 

> -lack of stability you can handel with support in pvp but is problematic if you solo roam (solo=no supporter next to you)

>

> e.g., druid has 10 sec cd on cel.avatar in wvw but 20 sec in pvp,

> warrior defy pain has way higher cooldown in spvp (90s) than in wvw (60s)

>

> why does every nerf for spvp also hit reapers in wvw where some weaknesses of reaper have way more impact? while other classes got skillsplitted so they can perform well in different gamemodes and reaper not?

>

 

Skillsplits don't solve everything and other professions have their own problems in WvW too. I can get behind an argument that Reaper needs help in WvW. But stick to Reaper. If you want to bring in other professions then you are swiftly going to lose ground on the argument as a lot of professions have issues of their own in WvW. Reaper isn't the only one to suffer weaknesses there so lets not act like Reaper is being unfairly targeted by ANet while everyone else is getting perfect skills splits and awesome buffs while in WvW because that is not the case. I could talk about Guardians mobility issues, Elementalists power issues, Renegades issues, Engineer issues, etc etc. Reaper has issues, stick to that and not drag every other profession into this as its a losing proposition for you.

 

> in one post you say soulbeast and Mirage powercreep isnt good, but anet deny any nerf to that powercreep MEANS, they are fine with it. they are fine with Mirage and soulbeast haveing massive mobility, dmg (oneshoot potential), Sustain in 1 build. since 14 month this classes perform in that way and Nothing happened to Change it.

> Problem is that **anet SET STANDARDS** at this Points for balancing. if YOU say powercreep isnt good, ANET say its fine by not nerfing These classes and proving you wrong. so if that is allowed, all classes should have the Chance to work in that way, because it is the Standard anet set for the games balancing. simple.

 

The professions don't prove me wrong. Power creep is not good. The fact that its there and that ANet isn't doing much about it doesn't magically mean that somehow the strength of Mirage and Soulbeast are good. Nor does it mean that trying to be just as strong as them would be healthy in the long term. ANet does listen to its customers and pushing them to reign in power creep is the path to walk down. Just because they don't see it as an issue right now doesn't mean they can't be moved to see it as a problem worth addressing. Making everything like Mirage and Soulbeast would be bad for the game. I can promise you likely wouldn't enjoy the overall result of trying to make everything as out of balance as Mirage and Soulbeast (I can promise you that Reaper would still be weaker). Balance isn't about making everyone as strong as the worst offenders but reigning in the worst offenders. So no, not simple.

 

Also, ANet not nerfing is not the same thing as they saying its fine. Balance is an ongoing process and we never see the entire picture. We live in the here and now. They live in the here and now and also the game's future. Things that seem too strong now may not be that strong six months down the road when conditions change. We don't know what future mechanics are being worked on. We don't know what future mechanics will be released. Something that we see as too powerful today may not be nearly as powerful after they implement changes we didn't know were in the works. We will never have the full picture on the matter so making the claim that just because they didn't change something now must mean that it is ok is just wrong. Sometimes, in order to reign the power level of something in you have to make additional changes to the game in order for additional balancing to work and take effect.

 

We will see if Mirage and Soulbeast remain problems. I suspect that they will not always be problematic.

 

 

[Zero.3871]

> @"Dace.8173" said:

> I still see plenty of Reapers when I'm in WvW.

 

than i would really like to Play where you are. sounds like heaven. because im tired of running against endless waves of mirages and soulbeasts...while i have to Play 10 times better than my enemy for just a small Chance of Winning when they heavily missplay.

[Dace.8173]

> @"Zero.3871" said:

> > @"Dace.8173" said:

> > I still see plenty of Reapers when I'm in WvW.

>

> than i would really like to Play where you are. sounds like heaven. because im tired of running against endless waves of mirages and soulbeasts...while i have to Play 10 times better than my enemy for just a small Chance of Winning when they heavily missplay.

 

This is true for a lot of builds right now. This isn't just a Reaper problem.

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"Zero.3871" said:

> > @"Dace.8173" said:

> > I still see plenty of Reapers when I'm in WvW.

>

> than i would really like to Play where you are. sounds like heaven. because im tired of running against endless waves of mirages and soulbeasts...while i have to Play 10 times better than my enemy for just a small Chance of Winning when they heavily missplay.

 

Tired?....Here commanders are asking only for firebrand -scourges and hammer heralds and semi-autokick rangers on sight. You're not the only player looking to have fun in GW2 , if you want to duel guess what?!...You must swap to duellist class, very simple concept, in the end rangers/mesmer players are forced to swap class also to enjoy group combat.

 

This is a MMO with 9 classes....you do the math

[XECOR.2814]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"Zero.3871" said:

> > > @"Dace.8173" said:

> > > I still see plenty of Reapers when I'm in WvW.

> >

> > than i would really like to Play where you are. sounds like heaven. because im tired of running against endless waves of mirages and soulbeasts...while i have to Play 10 times better than my enemy for just a small Chance of Winning when they heavily missplay.

>

> Tired?....Here commanders are asking only for firebrand -scourges and hammer heralds and semi-autokick rangers on sight. You're not the only player looking to have fun in GW2 , if you want to duel guess what?!...You must swap to duellist class, very simple concept, in the end rangers/mesmer players are forced to swap class also to enjoy group combat.

>

> This is a MMO with 9 classes....you do the math

 

Where will you play reaper in wvw? Thonk.

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"XECOR.2814" said:

> > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > @"Zero.3871" said:

> > > > @"Dace.8173" said:

> > > > I still see plenty of Reapers when I'm in WvW.

> > >

> > > than i would really like to Play where you are. sounds like heaven. because im tired of running against endless waves of mirages and soulbeasts...while i have to Play 10 times better than my enemy for just a small Chance of Winning when they heavily missplay.

> >

> > Tired?....Here commanders are asking only for firebrand -scourges and hammer heralds and semi-autokick rangers on sight. You're not the only player looking to have fun in GW2 , if you want to duel guess what?!...You must swap to duellist class, very simple concept, in the end rangers/mesmer players are forced to swap class also to enjoy group combat.

> >

> > This is a MMO with 9 classes....you do the math

>

> Where will you play reaper in wvw? Thonk.

 

Havok group

[anduriell.6280]

I don't get all the whining. Reaper already has [Reaper's Onslaught](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reaper%27s_Onslaught "https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reaper%27s_Onslaught") which provides pulsating quickness.

 

That should provide enough mobility and speed while in shroud. I think all this complains are simply a L2P issue. Reaper already has a two health bar one of which regenerates farily quickly which makes this tanky class easily really beefy.

 

We have an imbalance with thief and mesmer which make them busted, with all that damage, mobility, blocks, invulns and stealth they are provided but that issue is of those builds which should be balanced and not a sign the reaper needs a power creep.

 

 

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"anduriell.6280" said:

> I don't get all the whining. Reaper already has [Reaper's Onslaught](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reaper%27s_Onslaught "https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reaper%27s_Onslaught") which provides pulsating quickness.

>

> That should provide enough mobility and speed while in shroud. I think all this complains are simply a L2P issue. Reaper already has a two health bar one of which regenerates farily quickly which makes this tanky class easily really beefy.

>

 

I'm sorry but quickness don't give any mobility, that's the jobs of swiftness. Anyway 99% of the time the mobility issue for the necromancer's community is it's lack of "gap closer on "out of shroud" skillset". Because like you point out the shroud is what make the profession beefy, having to waste the shroud for a gap closer can be tactically very punishing. Having to waste your only defensive CD for "mobility" isn't really an alluring choice in a fight against professions that have superior mobility and more than a single defensive CD.

 

The professions isn't tankier/beefier than any other professions though, it's just that the other professions have the option to discard defense when the necromancer don't.

[Sigmoid.7082]

> @"anduriell.6280" said:

> **That should provide enough mobility** and speed while in shroud. I think all this complains are simply a L2P issue. Reaper already has a **two health bars** one of which **regenerates farily quickly** which makes this **tanky class easily really beefy.**

 

You don't really play necromancer do you.

 

 

 

[dceptaconroy.7928]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"anduriell.6280" said:

> > I don't get all the whining. Reaper already has [Reaper's Onslaught](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reaper%27s_Onslaught "https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reaper%27s_Onslaught") which provides pulsating quickness.

> >

> > That should provide enough mobility and speed while in shroud. I think all this complains are simply a L2P issue. Reaper already has a two health bar one of which regenerates farily quickly which makes this tanky class easily really beefy.

> >

>

> I'm sorry but quickness don't give any mobility, that's the jobs of swiftness. Anyway 99% of the time the mobility issue for the necromancer's community is it's lack of "gap closer on "out of shroud" skillset". Because like you point out the shroud is what make the profession beefy, having to waste the shroud for a gap closer can be tactically very punishing. Having to waste your only defensive CD for "mobility" isn't really an alluring choice in a fight against professions that have superior mobility and more than a single defensive CD.

>

> The professions isn't tankier/beefier than any other professions though, it's just that the other professions have the option to discard defense when the necromancer don't.

 

Spot on Dad. Smh at some of these other comments...another blow in.

[KrHome.1920]

I am still roaming on reaper because that's the only spec and game mode I enjoy playing.

 

In 2015 the spec felt really good, but since we lost our 7s cooldown, it did not matter what ANet tried to do with the spec, we are too easy to outplay, because there is a 10s window of opportunity to wreck us and which we can not sustain.

 

Spite/Curses shroudburst was fun, Spectral Onslaught was fun and now BM/SR Onlaught sustain is fun. With every patch there showed up some options to somehow continue to play the spec. But none of these mentioned builds were/are nearly as viable and flexble as 7s shroud cooldown builds in 2015. And that sucks. Reaper shroud dealt a lot less damage in 2015 and was still a lot more viable.

 

Scourge is a joke in roaming and core is just viable ftm. because no one is used to fight it. Once everyone noticed that you just need to go full melee when core shroud is popped, interrupt the shroud 4 channel and burst that poor necro, core will lose a lot of its current attention.

[Obtena.7952]

When people don't capitalize on the strengths of the class and the options they have for teaming and strategy, it's easy to see why people whine. People just want the self-contained class that has no deficiencies. There is a common toolset available to everyone, but you have to recognize it and embrace it; that's the difference between players that know how to play a class and players that know how to play the game.

 

This thread isn't any different than any other; this won't be a popular answer but solving these problems is about how you team and how you play, because it's an MMO; the whole genre is based on that concept. Of course people are going to struggle and even fail if they isolate themselves. It also doesn't help when people are so easily swayed by what is 'optimal' and FOTM changes. Play what you like ... you can't go wrong.

 

The thread is enlightening, but to what end? If I was Anet, I would be "OK, don't play it. You have lots of options". It seems like an unreasonable goal to make every spec viable (or whatever word people want to call it) for every game mode. I think the best we get is choice for players figure it out for themselves. I don't find that unique to GW2 either.

 

[Za Shaloc.3908]

I am not a necro player so can't say I know what the spec needs, but from the outside, it seems like they are still putting the spec into a box that requires a pocket support. One of the most puzzling balance changes in my eyes was adding perma-quickness in shroud onto Reaper's Onslaught. I actually detest this change because it trivializes quickness access (which should be a hard to access boon) and further makes it a melee powerhouse while doing nothing to address what makes the class struggle. To me this was a bandaid fix just like overtuning axe 2's damage. When I play soulbeast I feel for the poor reaper players because of how kiteable they are. There are only a couple that have blown me away with their wurm and walk usage and actually do pretty darn well given their disadvantage. With that said, I think that if they did ever give reaper more mobility, they would also need to tune down its damage. This is part of what balances it, but also part of what makes it not so well-rounded. A highly mobile reaper would be way too oppressive. And yes, with this change, other specs (like Mirage, Soulbeast, Holo, Firebrand) would need to be tuned down as well.

 

Again, just my opinion from the outside.

[Phoenix the One.4071]

> @"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:

> I am not a necro player so can't say I know what the spec needs, but from the outside, it seems like they are still putting the spec into a box that requires a pocket support. One of the most puzzling balance changes in my eyes was adding perma-quickness in shroud onto Reaper's Onslaught. I actually detest this change because it trivializes quickness access (which should be a hard to access boon) and further makes it a melee powerhouse while doing nothing to address what makes the class struggle. To me this was a bandaid fix just like overtuning axe 2's damage. When I play soulbeast I feel for the poor reaper players because of how kiteable they are. There are only a couple that have blown me away with their wurm and walk usage and actually do pretty darn well given their disadvantage. With that said, I think that if they did ever give reaper more mobility, they would also need to tune down its damage. This is part of what balances it, but also part of what makes it not so well-rounded. A highly mobile reaper would be way too oppressive. And yes, with this change, other specs (like Mirage, Soulbeast, Holo, Firebrand) would need to be tuned down as well.

>

> Again, just my opinion from the outside.

 

I live the perma-quickness, feels so good TO USE.

But not to have... it feels like I have to build around the shroud :/

I think the 15% even 20% extra attack speed would be fine.. even better? Why not just perma swiftness and just increase the overall attack speed for the attacks with 15-20%?

 

Always hated attackspeed and CD reduction traits, as I feel these are such great QoL, and just be a part of the weapon.

Traits are for game changing, and funny effects imo.

 

So yeah perma-quickness is over the top xD

And a bandaid.

Give us 15-20% more attspeed in reaper (without trait).

And move relentless pursuit to grandmaster, and add perma? Or semi perma swiftness in Shroud. (Bam mobility)

 

Put Soul Eater to major adept (lets you chose between shout or GS focus).

Replace major master with Reaper’s onslaught, on hit cripple target in 2 sec 8 sec (cd), striking a movement impaired foe grants 3% Life-force.

 

 

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:

> I am not a necro player so can't say I know what the spec needs, but from the outside, it seems like they are still putting the spec into a box that requires a pocket support. One of the most puzzling balance changes in my eyes was adding perma-quickness in shroud onto Reaper's Onslaught. I actually detest this change because it trivializes quickness access (which should be a hard to access boon) and further makes it a melee powerhouse while doing nothing to address what makes the class struggle. To me this was a bandaid fix just like overtuning axe 2's damage. When I play soulbeast I feel for the poor reaper players because of how kiteable they are. There are only a couple that have blown me away with their wurm and walk usage and actually do pretty darn well given their disadvantage. With that said, I think that if they did ever give reaper more mobility, they would also need to tune down its damage. This is part of what balances it, but also part of what makes it not so well-rounded. A highly mobile reaper would be way too oppressive. And yes, with this change, other specs (like Mirage, Soulbeast, Holo, Firebrand) would need to be tuned down as well.

>

> Again, just my opinion from the outside.

 

As a necromancer player I must admit that the way they raised the necromancer's DPS this year was hair rising. It's not that the necromancer didn't/don't need it's dps to be brought on par with other professions, it's the way they did it. From my point of view they took the wrong path and created more thing to fix than they fixed things.

[Axl.8924]

> @"anduriell.6280" said:

> I don't get all the whining. Reaper already has [Reaper's Onslaught](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reaper%27s_Onslaught "https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reaper%27s_Onslaught") which provides pulsating quickness.

>

> That should provide enough mobility and speed while in shroud. I think all this complains are simply a L2P issue. Reaper already has a two health bar one of which regenerates farily quickly which makes this tanky class easily really beefy.

>

> We have an imbalance with thief and mesmer which make them busted, with all that damage, mobility, blocks, invulns and stealth they are provided but that issue is of those builds which should be balanced and not a sign the reaper needs a power creep.

 

Quickness makes you hit faster and it makes abilities that have a cast time cast faster

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quickness

 

Swiftness is the one you are thinking of.Quickness is very powerful yes, but the problem is that reapers lack tools to stay alive long due to the nerfs to sustain. Reapers are now glassier than ever, and their power drains faster when than ever when getting hit.

 

The reason its a problem, is because health bar and shroud bar is nothing compared to what a Mesmer can do in survivability. Did you even see what chronomancer and mirage can do? even warriors cant compare to that insanity, with the amount of access to aegis and stuff like distortion, and reaper has little to no access to mobility, little to no access to stability and no access to invulns or evades. Without access to these stuff outside of shroud, they are a sitting duck since they cannot escape. It would be as if death knights from world of warcraft were super slow and all their hits were done in a shroud but they had no mobility, no way to keep people close and no way to sustain long enough for a kill. Even if a class is a team player, that doesnt mean they shoudnt have some level of sustain, as 100% dependence for fun makes it less fun.

 

On top of the damage nerf, the soul barbs thing also is a sign of hey everyone start attacking this necromancer because he ran out of reaper shroud and has 10 seconds before he can enter again, which makes the class even more predictable than it is, and this is not a good thing in pvp.

 

[DragonFury.6243]

after i played necro in competitive modes i know for sure that necro

isn't a roamer

isn't a 1V1 er

isn't a 1Vx er

isn't a support

isn't a +1 er

 

devs gave necro a role and that role is mediocre AOE damage with massive boon hate without any form of immunity AKA team fighter

when you enter plat as a necro you ll find players that specialized in farming necros if you enter their 1500 radius they will stop what ever they are doing and start focusing you and the moment you defeat one of them they start telling you play a real profession or play a other profession that require a skill

 

i just love the adrenaline rush when the pvp game is just started and i dont have any LF come to mid and +3 profession jump on me and i try to escape , collect LF and do some counter pressure in the same time

i cant get the same adrenaline rush when playing other profession

[Obtena.7952]

> @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> after i played necro in competitive modes i know for sure that necro

> isn't a roamer

> isn't a 1V1 er

> isn't a 1Vx er

> isn't a support

> isn't a +1 er

>

> devs gave necro a role and that role is mediocre AOE damage with massive boon hate without any form of immunity AKA team fighter

> when you enter plat as a necro you ll find players that specialized in farming necros if you enter their 1500 radius they will stop what ever they are doing and start focusing you and the moment you defeat one of them they start telling you play a real profession or play a other profession that require a skill

>

> i just love the adrenaline rush when the pvp game is just started and i dont have any LF come to mid and +3 profession jump on me and i try to escape , collect LF and do some counter pressure in the same time

> i cant get the same adrenaline rush when playing other profession

 

Sounds to me like the problem isn't the class; you just don't do well with Reaper in any game mode from the history of your posts.

[DragonFury.6243]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > after i played necro in competitive modes i know for sure that necro

> > isn't a roamer

> > isn't a 1V1 er

> > isn't a 1Vx er

> > isn't a support

> > isn't a +1 er

> >

> > devs gave necro a role and that role is mediocre AOE damage with massive boon hate without any form of immunity AKA team fighter

> > when you enter plat as a necro you ll find players that specialized in farming necros if you enter their 1500 radius they will stop what ever they are doing and start focusing you and the moment you defeat one of them they start telling you play a real profession or play a other profession that require a skill

> >

> > i just love the adrenaline rush when the pvp game is just started and i dont have any LF come to mid and +3 profession jump on me and i try to escape , collect LF and do some counter pressure in the same time

> > i cant get the same adrenaline rush when playing other profession

>

> Sounds to me like the problem isn't the class; you just don't do well with Reaper in any game mode from the history of your posts.

 

what make you think i play reaper i never said i play reaper i always say i play necro

the truth from the history of your posts no one know for sure that you even have a necro character cuz you know nothing about the profession unless you are dreaming about necro being op and in that case happy dreams my son

happy dreams

[Obtena.7952]

> @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > after i played necro in competitive modes i know for sure that necro

> > > isn't a roamer

> > > isn't a 1V1 er

> > > isn't a 1Vx er

> > > isn't a support

> > > isn't a +1 er

> > >

> > > devs gave necro a role and that role is mediocre AOE damage with massive boon hate without any form of immunity AKA team fighter

> > > when you enter plat as a necro you ll find players that specialized in farming necros if you enter their 1500 radius they will stop what ever they are doing and start focusing you and the moment you defeat one of them they start telling you play a real profession or play a other profession that require a skill

> > >

> > > i just love the adrenaline rush when the pvp game is just started and i dont have any LF come to mid and +3 profession jump on me and i try to escape , collect LF and do some counter pressure in the same time

> > > i cant get the same adrenaline rush when playing other profession

> >

> > Sounds to me like the problem isn't the class; you just don't do well with Reaper in any game mode from the history of your posts.

>

> what make you think i play reaper i never said i play reaper i always say i play necro

 

So you come into a thread about reaper in WvW and complaining Necro isn't this and isn't that in everything ... GG. I think we should just stick to the topic shall we?

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Phoenix the One.4071" said:

> > @"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:

> > I am not a necro player so can't say I know what the spec needs, but from the outside, it seems like they are still putting the spec into a box that requires a pocket support. One of the most puzzling balance changes in my eyes was adding perma-quickness in shroud onto Reaper's Onslaught. I actually detest this change because it trivializes quickness access (which should be a hard to access boon) and further makes it a melee powerhouse while doing nothing to address what makes the class struggle. To me this was a bandaid fix just like overtuning axe 2's damage. When I play soulbeast I feel for the poor reaper players because of how kiteable they are. There are only a couple that have blown me away with their wurm and walk usage and actually do pretty darn well given their disadvantage. With that said, I think that if they did ever give reaper more mobility, they would also need to tune down its damage. This is part of what balances it, but also part of what makes it not so well-rounded. A highly mobile reaper would be way too oppressive. And yes, with this change, other specs (like Mirage, Soulbeast, Holo, Firebrand) would need to be tuned down as well.

> >

> > Again, just my opinion from the outside.

>

> I live the perma-quickness, feels so good TO USE.

> But not to have... it feels like I have to build around the shroud :/

> I think the 15% even 20% extra attack speed would be fine.. even better? Why not just perma swiftness and just increase the overall attack speed for the attacks with 15-20%?

>

> Always hated attackspeed and CD reduction traits, as I feel these are such great QoL, and just be a part of the weapon.

> Traits are for game changing, and funny effects imo.

>

> So yeah perma-quickness is over the top xD

 

Then you need to hardnerf holo and soulbeast as well. They also have great Access to quickness while not being locked into a shroud or forced to build around the shroud.

 

> And a bandaid.

> Give us 15-20% more attspeed in reaper (without trait).

> And move relentless pursuit to grandmaster, and add perma? Or semi perma swiftness in Shroud. (Bam mobility)

>

> Put Soul Eater to major adept (lets you chose between shout or GS focus).

> Replace major master with Reaper’s onslaught, on hit cripple target in 2 sec 8 sec (cd), striking a movement impaired foe grants 3% Life-force.

>

>

 

 

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:

> > I am not a necro player so can't say I know what the spec needs, but from the outside, it seems like they are still putting the spec into a box that requires a pocket support. One of the most puzzling balance changes in my eyes was adding perma-quickness in shroud onto Reaper's Onslaught. I actually detest this change because it trivializes quickness access (which should be a hard to access boon) and further makes it a melee powerhouse while doing nothing to address what makes the class struggle. To me this was a bandaid fix just like overtuning axe 2's damage. When I play soulbeast I feel for the poor reaper players because of how kiteable they are. There are only a couple that have blown me away with their wurm and walk usage and actually do pretty darn well given their disadvantage. With that said, I think that if they did ever give reaper more mobility, they would also need to tune down its damage. This is part of what balances it, but also part of what makes it not so well-rounded. A highly mobile reaper would be way too oppressive. And yes, with this change, other specs (like Mirage, Soulbeast, Holo, Firebrand) would need to be tuned down as well.

> >

> > Again, just my opinion from the outside.

>

> As a necromancer player I must admit that the way they raised the necromancer's DPS this year was hair rising. It's not that the necromancer didn't/don't need it's dps to be brought on par with other professions, it's the way they did it. From my point of view they took the wrong path and created more thing to fix than they fixed things.

 

Yeah I mean. Just look at chilling nova. Completely unnecessary nerf. It requires the enemy to have chill, then explodes

So very conditional. Not like the ele trait that got buffed (I believe it delivers a lightning blow to the opponent if you switch to air) when having 100% crit chance.

And also hardnerf to spinal shivers, first gutting dmg, then removing crit and giving back a little bit of damage.

While also giving opponents easy to read shroud with soulbeasts.

 

 

Chilling nova. This was mainly a pve trait. There was only very niche uses for this trait in PvP I think. Cause reducing shouts or remove imparing conditions was way more useful than an additional 2k crit.

[Thustlewhumber.7416]

You could do a "chilled to the bone", and then flash into shroud for an insta-kill (100% crit uptime, with spiteful spirit/chill of death/chilling nova all critting at the same time). This last patch was a huge nerf for necros. I did spike 60k dps the other day with soul spiral, but it still isnt the damage it used to be.

[DeceiverX.8361]

I mean yeah they took away all its tools in the name of MOAR DPS.

 

- Shroud sustain massively nerfed with passive degen gone.

- Vital Persistance removed from the game further damning the spec.

- Speed of Shadows cooldown reduction/mobility removed (despite people praising perma-swiftness and telling me a year ago how I was full of crap for saying SoS carried reaper)

- LF gain options nerfed via CV's repeated nerfs to LF gain.

- Lesser Spinal Shivers not being worth taking (see above) and generally poor chill access on the spec itself.

- Old Death Perception allowing more defensive builds/rune choices like Exuberance while sacrificing no power and very little ferocity.

- Reduced group-fight mobility thanks to how the new Onslaught CDR works as it previously full-reset Death's Charge on-kill.

 

Reaper's a one-trick pony spec with what's now a very low skill ceiling compared to what used to be a very high one. And that's coming from a D/D thief player. Really, when I needed to outplay someone in the past, I used to log into the reaper because it had tools if you actually opted to use and build for them. Now I just either play the thief or log out when it's unwinnable.

 

Reaper's the new D/D thief in all honesty. Damage king but has bad tools. Which is somewhat how it should be, except they went way too overboard; it's better at the whole burst damage thing, yet with even worse tools because the necro itself has poor ones since its otherwise so durable and useful in the PvP modes thanks to core shroud/scourge and its boon denial and weakness application. Either you need to massively outplay people to come out on top (which is increasingly harder to do patch by patch), or you just win/lose the rock-paper-scissors game of who's playing what class/build.