Path of Fire: Focus on content - Where is it?

[calb.3128]

IMHO the content lasts much longer if you slow down to enjoy the ride, rather than rushing through to tick as many boxes as fast as possible.

 

I’m not a role player but it is nice just to go through the game slow-time for the first run through. Then again, I’ve yet to finish my HoT masteries so I guess I’ve always been a bit of a snail. ;)

[Ubi.4136]

I think you have the emphasis on the wrong part of the word. They weren't offering tons of new content, they were making the people that desperately wanted mounts content.

 

And......you can ride them anywhere.

[Halbatros.5173]

To be quite honest and with no intent to offend anyone, the whole "HoT had more content" argument is full of dolyak crap.HoT had 3 maps where exploration was mostly disencouraged with mobs that could sneeze at you taking away half your health,with arbitrary barriers to progression by forcing players to grind the same meaningless small scale events over and over again,with terrible writing and nonsensical time wastes by playing with some random frogs,and all of the content was forcing you to play with a group. Locations were mostly meaningless and with no story/lore /incentive to explore except for map completion. The last map wasn't even a map but a massive event chain.There was more repeteable content in HoT, but it was less overall content with fewer locations and the ones there being boring as rocks,less events overall, forced group play for any meaningful rewards, contrived map progression and mastery/elite spec progression to stretch out what little quality content there was, and I could keep going on. Most people hated how little there was to HoT.

 

 

Yes, PoF has no meta events, but there's plenty of events, hidden treasures, quests, achievements, etc. Progression is fine-tuned and all of the content is of superb quality. I can't even imagine how whiny mmo players can even buy and enjoy games like fallout or the witcher series when they can't even recognise what content actually is. Content is not a new farmtrain to get more gold to grind, that is a shallow skinner box. That was almost everything in HoT. You either farmed the meta events to death,or you had little to do in that expansion

[FANY.6524]

I think the story in PoF is of similar length to HoT, however... I also think the story itself is so much better and interesting, but that is subjective. You do have to get the second and third mount to proceed in the story, but it doesn't actually take very long. The heart quests are kind of tedious, tho. (I know some people complained that the masteries were too difficult to get without certain mounts, but there are *plenty* that you can get with just the raptor. Honest.)

 

The maps are GORGEOUS. I love them more than I love the HoT maps, and they were my favorite for awhile. However... HOWEVER. Those mini-metas are nothing like the Orr Temple events. They are short and easy to complete, and - honestly - a waste of time for someone like me who only does events more than once for the xp or rewards. When I read they were akin to the events in Orr I was very excited, because while that may not be a "map meta" per se they were still events that required effort and coordination and were fun. Bounties, at this point, barely seem to be better than regular events. I'm hoping they buff rewards or something, because right now the only reason I stay in PoF is to level up my masteries so I can go and snag the Griffon.

 

The mounts themselves are heckin' fun and a complete joy. My favorite thing atm. It was great to be able to use them in core Tyria right off the bat too. The masteries actually take very little time to level, and if you do bounty trains for the experience it won't take you long at all. IMO, the masteries in PoF are less of a struggle than - say - gliding masteries in HoT, lol. Still, hoping they add other PoF specific masteries.

 

I pretty sure I'm a minority here, but I don't actually care for the PoF guild hall. It's beautiful, but it doesn't *feel* like a guild hall to me. QQ

 

Anyways... All in all, I don't think PoF is *that* content heavy besides the mounts and maps. There isn't really anything exciting to do once you complete the story...unless playing spank and tank, or whack-a-mole, or die-and-rez-and-whack-again with some champs is your kind of thing. Don't regret buying the expansion, tho. I want to have faith that more content will be added that will spark my interest.

[Tekey.7946]

There are lots of people hoping for Season 4 to add bosses and events to the current maps of PoF, but here's the thing:

 

* The maps have been mostly **locked in time** since Living World Season 1. Arenanet didn't want its content to be **temporary** anymore. In order to implement a huge meta event or world boss, you'd have to adjust if not **replace** and **delete** other events - you have to either connect them or make room for them so they don't interfere with the existing content.

 

-> I said mostly because there are always exceptions, Lion's Arch has been rebuilt and smaller current events have been added. But it's **highly unlikely** they will just **throw a huge marionette event** in there.

 

* They will have to move on sooner or later. The expansion didn't really cover Elona as a whole, but rather the Crystal Desert and parts of Vabbi. There's still a huge chunk of world map south, Kourna and Kamadan. Season 3 did expand the playable area with each episode, they'll probably do the same in Season 4.

 

* The **expansion team** and **Living World team** are separated. Given that they aim at a quicker release, the expansion team will have to start workng towards the **next expansion** already. The Living World team on the other hand are likely not able to know everything about the expansion content - how are they gonna change the maps if they weren't instructed? The expansion team surely doesn't have time to explain it to them.

[Biermeister.4678]

PoF touches on the Lore of Guild Wars HoT did not, other than Glint.

So far I have enjoyed the POF and the maps and try to see how much of the old landmarks are still in the game, and how close the maps are to the original world maps from Guild Wars

[Ninjion.6804]

Let's not forget that:

A: PoF was a 30$ expansion, whereas HoT was a 50$ expansion.

B: LS4 will bring a lot of content that is PoF-exclusive

[Tekey.7946]

> @Ninjion.6804 said:

> Let's not forget that:

> A: PoF was a 30$ expansion, whereas HoT was a 50$ expansion.

> B: LS4 will bring a lot of content that is PoF-exclusive

 

A: Yes. However, HoT introduced lots of features **and** content. Path of Fire was advertised to be a content heavy expansion. That's basically the whole discussion, is PoF just HoT minus the features and 20$ cheaper? Maybe some people expected to get more content this time since they didn't have to spend their developement time on features anymore. Other than that there were some obviois differences even with regards to content: legendary weapons, legendary armor, guild halls, pvp/wvw,...

 

B: Season 3 brought a lot of content that is HoT-exclusive.

[VaLee.5102]

Exactly.

 

When I heard that PoF will be focused on content rather than new mechanics and systems like HoT did, I expected it to have at least double the content. Instead, we got less, and the replayability of this content is really questionable even after a couple of days.

 

Did all the bounty achievements on 4/5 maps, and don't have any incentive to ever do them again. And I have no idea what else to do in the new maps atm.

[otto.5684]

TBH, it is a bit early to draw final conclusions, but so far my impression is that the new maps are small. Even smaller than Orr maps. They have much more space, but it is empty space. I think VB is bigger than the first two PoF maps combined, considering the amount of events and verticality.

[Ahlen.7591]

I actually wonder, are HoT maps bigger if you account for their vertical nature? They sure FEEL bigger, but that could be the effect of mounts.

[Zoltar MacRoth.7146]

So...

 

> @VaLee.5102 said:

> Judging from the amount of actual content at launch, HoT had more content than PoF does atm.

> What will happen two months from now is irrelevant, it's all about the content at launch.

 

And then...

 

> @VaLee.5102 said:

> And I have no idea what else to do in the new maps atm.

 

Hypocritical much?

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

The fair question is: "what did Mike O'Brien mean when he referred to PoF content-heavy versus HoT as feature-heavy?" Regardless of whether the OP or I see things the same (FYI: we don't) or whether it's too soon to compare, I am also interested in how ANet views the expansion.

 

IMO, the OP distracted from this question by spending so much of their rhetoric on details &mdash all of us are good at nitpicking the specifics (because none of us are perfect about describing what we see in the first place. As a consequence, people are (reasonably) countering with the many ways in which PoF does have 'more' than HoT. Clearly, people who think ANet is on the right track will be able to see the numerous improvements over HoT and those who think ANet's on the wrong track can find faults (sometimes, with the same aspects).

 

To me, that's all moot: ANet often repeated the point that HoT was feature heavy, an important time out to improve and fix some of its fundamental mechanics and ANet's organizational strategies for maintaining high quality, quarterly updates. They asked us to be patient, to give them a chance to show us that the next expansion would be content rich. So, I think it's perfectly reasonable to ask, "what do they mean by that? How is that demonstrated in PoF that we see today?"

[AliamRationem.5172]

My impressions so far:

 

**Mounts: (A+)** Impressive effort! I think you guys really nailed it! This is no cosmetic movement speed boost a la WoW! The way the mounts move looks and feels awesome! The raptor is the perfect introduction to a system that came out better than I could have hoped! Well done! My only criticism is that I wish they had a few more skills and cosmetic options!

 

**The Story (so far): (B)** I'm only part way through the story, but I'd say it's been pretty enjoyable so far. Canach is as on point as ever. Honorable mention to Rytlock, but I could have used a little more cowbell.

 

**Event Structure: (D)** I'll be honest. On this one I'm missing HoT very much. I miss the event chains that tell a story about what's going on in the zone. I miss the handy map markers and UI elements that help me get to where I need to be for events. I don't need all maps to be this way, but I'm very disappointed that it appears none of the PoF maps are.

 

**Map Layouts: (C+)** The maps make excellent use of the new mount skills, saving them from the realm of flat and boring. Still, I could have used a map or two with some layers on it like TD or VB were. These maps are good. But HoT was better, in my opinion.

 

**Visuals: (A)** Even after 5 years, this game still has beautiful graphics. PoF is no exception! The desert maps look great!

 

**Music: (A+)** I'm not big into the music in my games. To me as long as it isn't too repetitive or outright annoying, I barely notice it. But I noticed the excellent new music including the exciting combat tunes right away! Great job!

 

I have no comment for now on the new elite specializations. I need to have more time to play with them before I can make a judgment. But I'm excited to make some builds with more of them!

 

[ugrakarma.9416]

By no way HoT has more content than PoF.

 

PoF has more armosets(like 5 or more), HoT has just Leystone, Bladed. Some folks try include guild armor here to inflate the numbers and even WvW armor.

PoF has more weaponsets(countless), HoT has just some mordrem weapons(rare drop from mobs), Auric Weapons, Chak Weapons, Plated/Mechanized.

PoF has more events, theyre not just chained up like HoT. Hot was heavy criticized for the meta events.

 

HoT get tons of hate for not bring new Leg Weapons at lauch. the promised Legendary Armor get to much time to be in game.

 

People criticizing the PoF for not having the content that was most hated in HoT is funny! Look at the old forum in the Heart of Torns section.

 

What I see of error repeating itself from Anet, is not having tutorials. HoT was very hated that after all, there never was a manual explaining the maps. Without commanders no one does the Dragon Stand or Tangled Depths to this day.

 

Lastly, doing only an "improved HoT" would be a big mistake. Repetition of style would entail killing the maps of the HoT, I am against the idea of dead content: "we have made an improved HoT, can abandon the old one".

 

[I Am Dansker.7105]

> @ugrakarma.9416 said:

> Lastly, doing only an "improved HoT" would be a big mistake. Repetition of style would entail killing the maps of the HoT, I am against the idea of dead content: "we have made an improved HoT, can abandon the old one".

>

 

So instead we abandon the new one

They might still be able to "fix" PoF, but as they are right now, there really is no reason to go back once you are done exploring

[LucianDK.8615]

I am wondering the same thing. I feel fairly complete with PoF at the moment. My character is fully ascended from hot, so thats checked. All five mounts aquired and trained to max. Map completed pof, and story complete. Aquired my specialization ascended shortbow. so i am unsure whats left in pof to keep me there.

[Malthurius.6870]

I actually think PoFs story is longer than HoTs. HoT has more instances, but more of PoFs instances are large and substantial... probably thanks to the moving instance boundaries tech they added. It you take out all the open world stuff from the both stories, I think PoF will come out longer.

 

As for content, there is a lot of it in the maps, much more than HoT's maps if you're paying attention. The content is simply in a 'harder to chew' format. There are a few good metas on the maps (Augury Rock and the Maw of Torment come to mind), and Legendary Bounties are pretty fun. PoF's content is simply harder to find, and returns to a format similar to the core game. Exploration is rewarded with interesting locations, chests, and the occasional hidden event. It's a good compliment to the wide open and straight forward map design that you have to 'dig deeper' to get to what makes these maps interesting at their core.

 

Opposed to HoT, which had complicated and layered maps that were challenging to explore... it had extremely clear chains of events that acted as anchors for players in a chaotic map lay out. I believe these design choices were very deliberate.

 

Also, we'll be getting the raid and the start of the next season in a month or so, and that's free. I can't fathom complaining about a lack of content.

[Malediktus.9250]

PoF seems to offer almost no content worth replaying in 2-3 weeks time. Very disappointing. I liked HoT much better.

[OriOri.8724]

I haven't read through this whole thread, but this is my take on it.

 

Focused on content doesn't have to mean quantity of content, it can mean quality as well. Compare how polished PoF content is overall to what HoT was when HoT released. We have more skins added to the game, more maps, better masteries (seriously, just because HoT had more masteries does not mean they were better. All 3 of the lore mastery lines were fairly weak overall considering that they had 5-6 tiers, they really only needed 3-4 max). So far what I have played (which, granted, has been very little. Not too much time to play lately), has been extremely polished compared to the state HoT was in. And on top of this, we didn't have a content drought before or after this release.

[Tekey.7946]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> The fair question is: "what did Mike O'Brien mean when he referred to PoF content-heavy versus HoT as feature-heavy?"

> [...]

> To me, that's all moot: ANet often repeated the point that HoT was feature heavy, an important time out to improve and fix some of its fundamental mechanics and ANet's organizational strategies for maintaining high quality, quarterly updates. They asked us to be patient, to give them a chance to show us that the next expansion would be content rich. So, I think it's perfectly reasonable to ask, "what do they mean by that? How is that demonstrated in PoF that we see today?"

 

It's correct to focus on that. As you've said _"they asked us to be patient, to give them a chance to show us that the next expansion would be content rich"_ - how exactly is PoF a content heavy expansion compared to the featury heavy HoT. That describes the general question.

Honestly, I don't know where we're going from here on now. Most likely we won't get an official statement and in the end some words probably won't change someone's motivation to play PoF anyway. Nonetheless, it was interesting to ask the question and look at it from different perspectives.

[FXLEACH.9436]

Just look at the patch notes for the expansion to see how little content there is.

The maps are pretty nice, beautiful and all that. But they are chock full of enemies, tonnes of vets, and many of which can attack you from more than 1500 range. It's annoying - and makes actually exploring and appreciating the maps are tiresome endeavour.

No new world bosses is terrible. The maps feel empty and I see many events never being completed, or even started. And if they are started, they often fail for lack of people.

There are no new npc discussing the new elite specs that I've seen.

The only thing I see people doing are champ trains and trains to get the griffon mount.

This is terrible.

This expansion should be content rich but it's not. Events are mainly boring collect-a-thons which become even more annoying because of the huge aggro radius of mobs and how over-tuned many of them are.

There's no mount customization apart from changing the colour of one dye-channel.

One would think in a content-rich expansion there would be ways to craft armour and items for mounts.

Weaponry and armour is lacking. There's a tiny amount of new weapon and armour skins.

There's barely any new interesting items. Most NPC in the world seem to be merchants who just sell the usual boring stuff.

There's no way to set up a camp and enjoy the beautiful areas of the maps because once you kill the 50 vet mobs there they just respawn in two minutes.

Overall I'm pretty disappointed with PoF and for the price I paid I don't feel like anet have delivered.

Rushing around maps to stay away from respawning vet mobs, or to farm champ trains, or to grind for a griffon mount (which tonnes of people have already) just is so deeply ungratifying for an expansion.

 

There are so many ways this could have been better, it's a shame to see how it has gone.

[PimmoZ.5497]

> @"I Am Dansker.7105" said:

> > @ugrakarma.9416 said:

> > Lastly, doing only an "improved HoT" would be a big mistake. Repetition of style would entail killing the maps of the HoT, I am against the idea of dead content: "we have made an improved HoT, can abandon the old one".

> >

>

> So instead we abandon the new one

> They might still be able to "fix" PoF, but as they are right now, there really is no reason to go back once you are done exploring

 

This!

 

I went back to the HoT maps and got back involved in whatever was going on. Went back to the PoF maps and found myself thinking what to do, got bored and quit the game. It's just a real shame there's nothing going on that sucks me in. Really, really hoping they're going to fix this.

 

[IndigoSundown.5419]

Lots of content in PoF? It's there. There are tons of events that a lot of people don't bother with because they don't find the rewards for completing them compelling. Don't mistake lack of motivation to do content for lack of content.

[Klowdy.3126]

All of these complaints from the OP, and yet I still find HoT to be some of the worst part of this game. It seems like people forget that online games are an ever evolving entity, especially this one.

 

Does Blizzard release every dungeon, raid, or zone as soon as an expansion hits? Does any MMO with any sort of staying power release an addition to its game and never add anything along the way?

 

You are comparing a finished expansion, one that the story has been told in full, and everything has been released, to something that has been out for a month.