Keep No Downed State?

[Threather.9354]

I think **no downstate is better than downstate in WvW** but I'd rather see rework in downstate in following ways:

-**Reduce downed state health to 50% from 75% and remove all resurrect speed traits except maybe eles geysir.** This should make resurrecting someone 2-3 times slower but still doable with everyone at same time.

- **Make downed state limited to 1 time, after that you fully die.** Downed penalty of 100 seconds would be long enough.

- **Remove resurrect ability from low cd skills like merciful intervention and Illusion of Life.** Warrior elite banner, Rebound, Glyph of renewal, function gyro and signet of mercy should be fine because they are not spammable and are either elite skills or just not outstandingly strong.

[Huli.9740]

Pros- Personally liked the novelty, and saw more class diversity ( after the initial adjustments folks made after reset,outside of a few stupidly scourge stacked groups) than I have in a while. Zerg breaking could happen with a few invested folks.

Cons- New players getting farmed coming out of the gate, I can't see how shortening TTK is going to help people learn and get them to stay, zergs became sieges; dull...dull dull.. frantic briefly dead or win. Got mentioned above but the player fear was ludicrous.

I'm more hopeful of what Anet will take away from their streamers getting kittened whenever they looked over an objective wall.

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Bugabuga.9721" said:

> > @"Ryrok.1302" said:

> > > @"Kirnale.5914" said:

> > > - one shot builds can take out players inside a zerg and get away easily

> >

> > Isn't this solvable at the player level? e.g. it just might not be feasible to run full 'zerks, and is that a problem?

> >

> > In my (novice, completely uninformed) opinion, it seems wild to me that we have a bazillion gearing options in the game, but most people just go full 'zerks. IMO gearing fully offensive should be a high-risk/high reward thing to do, but downed state lowers the risk.

>

> Generally no. Specifically commander will be tagged very quickly in initial encounter. Then no matter how much toughness you have, gank squad can moa you and then you're a free kill. You can counter one (aegis), but two mesmers + two thieves group has 4 moas available + long range stealth kill without much trouble. It just depends on how "dedicated" to ganking the commander they are (hint, some are _very_ dedicated because it allows them to "spoil" big fights easily).

>

> Without adding specific counteracts to stuff like that to a commander "no down state" is basically a "here's an amplifier to your trolling" gift (and you can't res in combat, and one poison field around body puts everyone in combat for quite a while).

>

> Side effect -- if we _do_ get these "commander magically immune to some effects" then there'll be a big question of how it scales. Anyone can be a commander of one-man squad. Want an un-moable-thief hunting for players?

 

I am not sure that it is inappropriate for a squad to be able to kill a single opposing enemy in a PvP encounter if dedicated to doing so.

[Orangensaft.7139]

let it return from time to time but dont keep it permanent

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Specialka.7290" said:

> > @"Specialka.7290" said:

> > > @"geist.9173" said:

> > > > @"Specialka.7290" said:

> > > > > @"Kirnale.5914" said:

> > > > > > @"Ryrok.1302" said:

> > > > > > > @"Kirnale.5914" said:

> > > > > > > - one shot builds can take out players inside a zerg and get away easily

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Isn't this solvable at the player level? e.g. it just might not be feasible to run full 'zerks, and is that a problem?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In my (novice, completely uninformed) opinion, it seems wild to me that we have a bazillion gearing options in the game, but most people just go full 'zerks. IMO gearing fully offensive should be a high-risk/high reward thing to do, but downed state lowers the risk.

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm not sure about the actual damage of one shot mesmers, but my reaper had 1400 toughness and vitality and went from 100% reaper HP to 0% and my real HP went from 100% to 20% from a single burst. So yeah, kinda 180% of my HP.

> > > >

> > > > The issue here is the mesmer, not the no downstate.

> > >

> > > The issue always are mesmer and thieves. Which have no risc and high reward gameplay for over five years now. Without downstate the risk of getting killed on one of those classes drops even more.

> > > Downstate gives you the option to at least get up someone who got instagibbed from out of stealth and try to catch the attacker.

> > >

> > > Sure, let's get rid of downstate, but when that happens make stealth break on conditions and hits and cut thieves energy and mesmer invulns.

> >

> > Sorry but you are wrong. Mesmer are lowrisk/high reward, while Thief are high risk/low reward while everythign else is between those 2 extrems.

>

> And a thief can't instagib you out of stealth without warning. He needs to attack you to build up malice on you.

 

Lolwat. Just last night I had a dd come out of stealth and knock 16k hp off me in an instant. I am fairly sure that dd didnt have malice. Thats against 1900 toughness btw, which is the only reason I didnt instantly die.

[Maven.1690]

Keep it in WVW PLEASE

so much more fun and has all those zerg berserker builds as squishy as they should be

[DemonSeed.3528]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"Specialka.7290" said:

> > > @"Specialka.7290" said:

> > > > @"geist.9173" said:

> > > > > @"Specialka.7290" said:

> > > > > > @"Kirnale.5914" said:

> > > > > > > @"Ryrok.1302" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Kirnale.5914" said:

> > > > > > > > - one shot builds can take out players inside a zerg and get away easily

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Isn't this solvable at the player level? e.g. it just might not be feasible to run full 'zerks, and is that a problem?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > In my (novice, completely uninformed) opinion, it seems wild to me that we have a bazillion gearing options in the game, but most people just go full 'zerks. IMO gearing fully offensive should be a high-risk/high reward thing to do, but downed state lowers the risk.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I'm not sure about the actual damage of one shot mesmers, but my reaper had 1400 toughness and vitality and went from 100% reaper HP to 0% and my real HP went from 100% to 20% from a single burst. So yeah, kinda 180% of my HP.

> > > > >

> > > > > The issue here is the mesmer, not the no downstate.

> > > >

> > > > The issue always are mesmer and thieves. Which have no risc and high reward gameplay for over five years now. Without downstate the risk of getting killed on one of those classes drops even more.

> > > > Downstate gives you the option to at least get up someone who got instagibbed from out of stealth and try to catch the attacker.

> > > >

> > > > Sure, let's get rid of downstate, but when that happens make stealth break on conditions and hits and cut thieves energy and mesmer invulns.

> > >

> > > Sorry but you are wrong. Mesmer are lowrisk/high reward, while Thief are high risk/low reward while everythign else is between those 2 extrems.

> >

> > And a thief can't instagib you out of stealth without warning. He needs to attack you to build up malice on you.

>

> Lolwat. Just last night I had a dd come out of stealth and knock 16k hp off me in an instant. I am fairly sure that dd didnt have malice. Thats against 1900 toughness btw, which is the only reason I didnt instantly die.

 

Yeah I was fighting against a holo & guard earlier today and I got popped by a thief that I didn't see [i assume they came out of sm stealthed or just out of my view while fighting] and got insta death with 19k backstab lol. Instant reflex was of course useless at this point, but I was pretty much going to die anyway as I had everything on cooldown. I am sure people will catch up on it as soon as they realise indeed how obvious dj's were compared to this. I'll be on my toes to avoid it the next time though hehe.

 

PS - my guess was that it was probably a deadeye, he did not steal or do anything, just stayed in stealth and one shot with a backstab.

[Limodriver.4106]

keep it so no more scourge firebrand meta.

[Rezzet.3614]

it has potential to be great but the game currently is too unbalanced for it, scourge meta, uneven server matching , players who focus solely on blob vs blob for bag farming in ebg

[SkyShroud.2865]

Mixed feeling.

 

No down states is great for zerg that often lack the dps to finish off the down. Usually the smaller or disorganized zerg.

 

At the same time, fights often end so fast.

[Curunen.8729]

No I would like to see a middle ground because honestly I like stomping and the res mechanic.

 

Proposition is a 2-strike mechanic:

- first time getting to 0hp = downed as normal

- if ressed get a debuff for a set timeframe (eg 10 mins) that makes you die fully on getting to 0hp (of course this doesn't stack)

 

This should allow for some counterplay and fun res/stomp interaction as well as support for allies - but at the same time reward determined players for getting a second "kill" within the debuff timer on an opponent as they would then die without downstate.

[TheGrimm.5624]

Would have liked the option to try other downstate options as well.

[Solaris.2489]

Definetly keep no-downstate. Fights are way more fast paced and tactical. Groups port around with mesmer portal like I have never seen before. I dont miss the res mechanic in the slightest.

[Krypto.2069]

> @"Orangensaft.7139" said:

> let it return from time to time but dont keep it permanent

 

You know... I'd be perfectly OK with this! :+1:

 

We could call it -- **:skull: PUT 'EM in the GRAVE WEEK!!! :skull:**

and let it occur once every other week (I mean...every other _month_) :wink:

 

And no extra coding time needed from Anet, just turn it on like they did this week. :smiley:

[Slanderman.9532]

Vanilla gw2 didnt have dedicated healers and that is why downstate is in the game. Now we have so downstate is op and feels unrewarding.

 

I like the idea of no skills in downstate + you take 50% More dmg. This way you'd eliminate a lot of small scale roaming problems and ressing on big zergs becomes more tactical.

 

Removing downstate is too much work, but nerfing it is easily doable.

 

Edit: seems like i missclicked my vote, i rather have no downstate on WvW

[Aeolus.3615]

Is there, a way to get a possible middle term to please Greeks and Troians?

[Aeolus.3615]

Cant edit my own post... what a shame :(

 

So.... what if Anet increased every 1 health pool, and gave us access to hard rezing skills on some classes(gw1 style), and the hard rez that we have now?

[SteepledHat.1345]

Keeping it only serves to feed massive zerg balls. It's a trash mechanic in any game mode. It needs a full on removal from the game.

[Belorn.2659]

The no down state event was fun. Really fun, and not just because our server held the #1 spot during skirmishes. Fights felt more intense, and the punishment for overextending was high. All good right?

 

The running back was not. The disengage style combat, especially in roaming was not. Long term the idea of instant kills will not just be fringe, it will be the primary way of doing things. WvW is not as strict as PvP and getting single skill dps over 20k is not that difficult. No, the cost is a bit too high but as a fun weekend it was great.

[Mizhas.8536]

Many people here are saying that combats are too quick right now. Well, when the enemy has a full-map blob and you are outnumbered (a situation that happens every f... day) combats are quick as well. Even if both sides have a full-map, spikes were deleting people no matter downstate (just because of the 50 people AoE spam). With this system at least you can fight back and take advantage of more skillful tactics like portal-bombing, stealths...

Until now, the best group just needed to keep pushing to rally their downs and/or let their backline rez them immediately while frontline kept pushing.

 

In my opinion the choice it's clear. WvW combat was boring as hell for the last year. This week has revived my hopes in GW2. (I've been playing WvW every day since beta non-stop)

[Kilamanjaro.2705]

Finally got my last diamond box for the week, normally i repeat several times, not this week I could not wait to be done with ticket cap.

Ive seen 2 sides of these arguments in the multiple hours ive spent in wvw this week. Large experienced groups and small experienced havoc squads hate this while the cheeseball pvp gank squads (looking at you Mirages and Daredevils) seem to love it since their OMGRUF......INGKIDDINGME burst damage ends the fight the moment they come out of stealth without the danger of someone coming back up and spanking them when they're out of CD's (barring ofc the stupid fast escape they make when any sign of losing rears it's ugly head)

So, long story short, from my observations of chats, the broken a$$ gank builds are broken-er this week and they love it. Strategically played groups with experienced players are dissatisfied because you spend more time looking for a fight thats over in a minute or two IF they stand and fight, alot are just running back to the AC's and hiding.

[Kilamanjaro.2705]

> @"Spurnshadow.3678" said:

> I think it'd be good to do on a reoccurring basis, like once a month, but not permanent.

 

Only if it was 24 or 48 hours. I dont want another full kitten week of this bomb and run while OP Mirage/DD pick off the flanks

[Bugabuga.9721]

> @"SteepledHat.1345" said:

> Keeping it only serves to feed massive zerg balls. It's a trash mechanic in any game mode. It needs a full on removal from the game.

 

Removing downed state only serves to feed massive zerg balls. Because in huge numbers comes security. Running with 2-3 people? Thief/glass mesmer will insta-kill one, runs away, comes back, kills another, then the last one. Run in a 25 man blob? You probably will be ressed. Bigger zerg, more safety for karmatraining

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

> @"HazyDaisy.4107" said:

> This event works because of the double xp. Double xp promotes risk taking in vets and it brings new people into the maps. Insta death by itself deters new people from coming in, much less attempting things alone or with small groups, it deters that guy that learned wvw by zerging from attempting a T3 camp alone and it makes outnumbered maps pip collection stations again.

>

> This event works only because it's a package deal, there's no room for growth in insta death by itself.

 

In what way does downed state help a player trying to fight a t3 camp alone, or trying anything alone for that matter? If you think about it, the risk is identical with downed state or without as you won't get up if you're downed while solo anyway.

[HazyDaisy.4107]

> @"Jugglemonkey.8741" said:

> > @"HazyDaisy.4107" said:

> > This event works because of the double xp. Double xp promotes risk taking in vets and it brings new people into the maps. Insta death by itself deters new people from coming in, much less attempting things alone or with small groups, it deters that guy that learned wvw by zerging from attempting a T3 camp alone and it makes outnumbered maps pip collection stations again.

> >

> > This event works only because it's a package deal, there's no room for growth in insta death by itself.

>

> In what way does downed state help a player trying to fight a t3 camp alone, or trying anything alone for that matter? If you think about it, the risk is identical with downed state or without as you won't get up if you're downed while solo anyway.

 

With downed state there's still a chance to rez off the vets. I'm not saying it happens every time, but it does happen some times and even those some times provide more hope than flat out death.