Yamazuki.6073 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 I personally would like something to be more dungeon oriented (5 player). Even if it's difficult, I prefer difficult 5 player instances over raids. I mostly play games with a couple friends, so setting up for 5 player instances is more enjoyable, generally just need 1 random person, as opposed to getting 6 random people and all its random factors and attitudes. I also never even found raids to be harder, more challenging, nor more enjoyable, than properly designed dungeons. Their difficulties are roughly the same, just raids are more of on the "annoying challenging" because it feels fake, as such I don't feel good for clearing it, anytime I do raids its purely for the rewards and not the experience or "fun". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonstarmac.4603 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 I vote make it a Guild Hall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belorn.2659 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 I keep reading here on the forum about how much non-raiders want to experience the story that exist in raids. Sad to say, but there is a _Huge_ misunderstanding about that. The story in raiding are very short, bare-bone and primarily told through very short dialogue and cutscenes. I expect there is more spoken dialogue in a single living story compared to all raid wings combined. It is my guess on why anet won't make a "story" version of raiding, since it would not be very interesting for anyone. If you want to experience 95% of the story aspect of raids, ask someone who has cleared a wing and go in and talk to the 1! npc in each wing and the handful of dialogue options. That is basically it. A few fights has mechanics with story elements in it (Xera that has a couple of lines about a rebellion) but that is about it. Dhuum has a single annoying line: *"Mortals. You believe yourselves saviors, naturally. You seek to write the conclusion of your legend. There is no conclusion more natural than death. "* That is all the story you get from him, and trust me that it gets very boring the 300th time you hear it! If they make a wizards tower as a raid wing then expect at most a couple of lines of story during the fights and 4-5 dialogue options from the one wing npc. Raid story is more told through the scenery, which a non-raider can still access. Go to the raid lobby and ask for someone to open a cleared instance and I doubt it would take more than a few seconds before someone would step in and help. Even better, watch a YT video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReV.6097 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Honestly wish they would just do a Dungeon for it. Suits everyone. Make easy path, medium, and hard. Difference being the amount of tokens you get and drop rate etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Id take wizards tower as a raid over it being a lw update ANYTIME. Cant or wont get good? theres excellent lore playthroughs of it out. Raid team has been kilking it with their instances and story in them and it would be a waste to see it as anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridget Morrigan.1752 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 > @"Algreg.3629" said: > I am not a raider myself currently, so for the time being, I am "locked out" myself. What I don´t get though: You claim you are interested in the story, not in playing the raid. So there is a story mode: you can watch on youtube. If you are really in for the story only, it makes no difference whether you watch cutscenes/dialogues after encounters that do not challenge you (or me for that matter) or just a movie. Watching on YouTube is not the same as playing yourself. If I had my druthers, I'd have it be a maze/puzzle which implements both expansions' mastery skills, that you could complete with others but don't HAVE to. But that's probably never going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poseidon.3852 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 > @"sorudo.9054" said: > what about some kind of new thing, raids are in it self toxic, fractals are (like raids) not made for solo players and Anet all but abandoned dungeons. > > i was thinking, what about an instance quest, anyone can play it and no one is bothered by anyone. > if anyone has played city of heroes they know what i am talking about, a story in an instance with the instance scaling according to party size. > you can go in alone and it will be scales for solo play (open world), get in with a party and the more players the more difficult it becomes. > > for instance: > 1 player = open world difficulty > 2-5 players = dungeon difficulty (2 has more enemies while 5 has elite enemies) > 5+ players = raid difficulty (all enemies are veteran, stronger are champion and bosses are legendary) > > ofcouse, it might be possible to add a difficulty slider, so ppl who like the challenge but like to play alone can fake the 3 player part while playing solo. The problem here is that you would need to make 3 sets of rewards for it, which would take a lot more resources.... which ANet seems to lack completely. Also, are you suggesting that content that needs coordinated group play is by default toxic? o.o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palador.2170 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 > @"Poseidon.3852" said: > > Also, are you suggesting that content that needs coordinated group play is by default toxic? o.o I think it's fair to say that such content is far more likely to create toxicity. It is very possible to fail such content, resulting in a waste of time and resources, which for some people are in very limited supply. You're restricted to a team of only 10 people, so you can't just get more in to help like you can in the open world. Patience can wear thin, and there's a very small group of people who might be to blame, including yourself. All of this means that a failure, even if nobody was really doing anything wrong, can make people angry and defensive, with few targets to take it out on. Back before raids and fractals, dungeons had their share of toxicity too. All of the same reasons apply, raids are simply a bigger version of dungeons. Bigger party, bigger investment, bigger rewards, and bigger failures. The content isn't toxic by itself, but it makes the toxic behaviors more likely. I think most of us can agree on that much, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 > @"Palador.2170" said: > The content isn't toxic by itself, but it makes the toxic behaviors more likely. I think most of us can agree on that much, right? That is entirely dependent on what you deem "toxic behavior" is. Even with raids and pugging i find nothing wrong with groups setting their own barriers. Some might call this toxic, i just call it filtering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaklex.6308 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Someone can correct me if this is wrong, but from what I'm familiar with most raids in other MMO's tend to be long slogging affairs, of say 3 - 6 hours(5 - 6 average, but that's only what I've heard), where as the raids in GW2 are much shorter(relatively speaking of course) and run from 2 - 3 hours or even an hour or so. There's also the option of joining one after the content has been cleared and just going through it for the story, WP has done that before, and did a video of for the first raid wing, if not others...I'm personally ambivalent about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Pifil.5193" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > @"Palador.2170" said: > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > With all honesty, the coolest thing they can do is a raid. > > > > > > > > > > No. Just ... no. They can do better than that, and it's past time that we expect better. > > > > > > > > Actually they can't. Nothing will feel even remotely as epic. > > > > > > I'd challenge the idea that something being "epic" means "10 man instance" but hey, might be a different understanding of what "epic" means. > > > > It's not about the number of players in the instance, it's about the challenge. That's the big problem with the story instances - we fight Balthazar, but the fight isn't really hard, a rando White Mantle zealot abusing bloodstone feels much more dangerous and because of that much more of an accomplishment when defeated. And it should be clear that they will never do anything remotely as challenging as a raid boss outside of a raid, except maybe in fractal CMs. So if you want a cool story - sure, it can be wherever. Probably best in the personal story, as the other instances tend to be paced shorter. But if you want an epic fight, nothing will come close to a raid boss, sorry. > > That’s a game mechanics vs lore, sort of argument. In reality, Mordremoth would kill all the raid bosses. Irrelevant. I'm talking about the discrepancy between the supposed "epicness" of the encounter and the actual feeling when you play it. Raids convey a sense of danger, of great difficulty. Story instances do not. Also wrong because of Dhuum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 I hope Wizard's Tower ends up being 2v2 custom pvp arena. This way everyone would hate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flog.3485 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Honestly just make it into a fractal. Players that don’t like difficulty can go into t1, then T4 for a more medium difficulty. Since the Wizard tower is a special place, it deserves a CM for experienced raiders as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Isn't the wizard's tower too small for a Raid? Or even a fractal/dungeon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randulf.7614 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 One thing that does confuse me, one of the NPC's talks about how villagers are invited to live there and never return. The next NPC talks about how no one except Isgarren has ever been inside. Seems conflicting info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flog.3485 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > Isn't the wizard's tower too small for a Raid? Or even a fractal/dungeon. Well the fractal doesn’t need to take place inside the wizards’ tower precisely. It could be fractal, that upon completion, transfers you into the wizards’ tower and give some lore tidbits that explain the backgrounds of the wizards’ tower. They could make it so that, after you have beaten this particular fractal in CM, you unlock the wizards’ tower as a permanent lobby, from which you can fly off in kessex hills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > @"Pifil.5193" said: > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > @"Palador.2170" said: > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > With all honesty, the coolest thing they can do is a raid. > > > > > > > > > > > > No. Just ... no. They can do better than that, and it's past time that we expect better. > > > > > > > > > > Actually they can't. Nothing will feel even remotely as epic. > > > > > > > > I'd challenge the idea that something being "epic" means "10 man instance" but hey, might be a different understanding of what "epic" means. > > > > > > It's not about the number of players in the instance, it's about the challenge. That's the big problem with the story instances - we fight Balthazar, but the fight isn't really hard, a rando White Mantle zealot abusing bloodstone feels much more dangerous and because of that much more of an accomplishment when defeated. And it should be clear that they will never do anything remotely as challenging as a raid boss outside of a raid, except maybe in fractal CMs. So if you want a cool story - sure, it can be wherever. Probably best in the personal story, as the other instances tend to be paced shorter. But if you want an epic fight, nothing will come close to a raid boss, sorry. > > > > That’s a game mechanics vs lore, sort of argument. In reality, Mordremoth would kill all the raid bosses. > > Irrelevant. I'm talking about the discrepancy between the supposed "epicness" of the encounter and the actual feeling when you play it. Raids convey a sense of danger, of great difficulty. Story instances do not. Also wrong because of Dhuum. The epicness is subjective. To me Dragon stand was much more epic then the raid encounters. Don’t even get me started on Dhuum. You are comparing 10 players, Desmina and the reapers equals the power of an Elder Dragon? Yeah, nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > @"Pifil.5193" said: > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > @"Palador.2170" said: > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > With all honesty, the coolest thing they can do is a raid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No. Just ... no. They can do better than that, and it's past time that we expect better. > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually they can't. Nothing will feel even remotely as epic. > > > > > > > > > > I'd challenge the idea that something being "epic" means "10 man instance" but hey, might be a different understanding of what "epic" means. > > > > > > > > It's not about the number of players in the instance, it's about the challenge. That's the big problem with the story instances - we fight Balthazar, but the fight isn't really hard, a rando White Mantle zealot abusing bloodstone feels much more dangerous and because of that much more of an accomplishment when defeated. And it should be clear that they will never do anything remotely as challenging as a raid boss outside of a raid, except maybe in fractal CMs. So if you want a cool story - sure, it can be wherever. Probably best in the personal story, as the other instances tend to be paced shorter. But if you want an epic fight, nothing will come close to a raid boss, sorry. > > > > > > That’s a game mechanics vs lore, sort of argument. In reality, Mordremoth would kill all the raid bosses. > > > > Irrelevant. I'm talking about the discrepancy between the supposed "epicness" of the encounter and the actual feeling when you play it. Raids convey a sense of danger, of great difficulty. Story instances do not. Also wrong because of Dhuum. > > The epicness is subjective. To me Dragon stand was much more epic then the raid encounters. > > Don’t even get me started on Dhuum. You are comparing 10 players, Desmina and the reapers equals the power of an Elder Dragon? Yeah, nope. Overcoming greater challenge isn't subjective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > @"Pifil.5193" said: > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > @"Palador.2170" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > With all honesty, the coolest thing they can do is a raid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No. Just ... no. They can do better than that, and it's past time that we expect better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually they can't. Nothing will feel even remotely as epic. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd challenge the idea that something being "epic" means "10 man instance" but hey, might be a different understanding of what "epic" means. > > > > > > > > > > It's not about the number of players in the instance, it's about the challenge. That's the big problem with the story instances - we fight Balthazar, but the fight isn't really hard, a rando White Mantle zealot abusing bloodstone feels much more dangerous and because of that much more of an accomplishment when defeated. And it should be clear that they will never do anything remotely as challenging as a raid boss outside of a raid, except maybe in fractal CMs. So if you want a cool story - sure, it can be wherever. Probably best in the personal story, as the other instances tend to be paced shorter. But if you want an epic fight, nothing will come close to a raid boss, sorry. > > > > > > > > That’s a game mechanics vs lore, sort of argument. In reality, Mordremoth would kill all the raid bosses. > > > > > > Irrelevant. I'm talking about the discrepancy between the supposed "epicness" of the encounter and the actual feeling when you play it. Raids convey a sense of danger, of great difficulty. Story instances do not. Also wrong because of Dhuum. > > > > The epicness is subjective. To me Dragon stand was much more epic then the raid encounters. > > > > Don’t even get me started on Dhuum. You are comparing 10 players, Desmina and the reapers equals the power of an Elder Dragon? Yeah, nope. > > Overcoming greater challenge isn't subjective. Perhaps, but the view that greater challenge equates to more epic is. Watching the original Star War movie was an epic experience entailing no challenge on my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > @"Pifil.5193" said: > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > @"Palador.2170" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > With all honesty, the coolest thing they can do is a raid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No. Just ... no. They can do better than that, and it's past time that we expect better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually they can't. Nothing will feel even remotely as epic. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd challenge the idea that something being "epic" means "10 man instance" but hey, might be a different understanding of what "epic" means. > > > > > > > > > > It's not about the number of players in the instance, it's about the challenge. That's the big problem with the story instances - we fight Balthazar, but the fight isn't really hard, a rando White Mantle zealot abusing bloodstone feels much more dangerous and because of that much more of an accomplishment when defeated. And it should be clear that they will never do anything remotely as challenging as a raid boss outside of a raid, except maybe in fractal CMs. So if you want a cool story - sure, it can be wherever. Probably best in the personal story, as the other instances tend to be paced shorter. But if you want an epic fight, nothing will come close to a raid boss, sorry. > > > > > > > > That’s a game mechanics vs lore, sort of argument. In reality, Mordremoth would kill all the raid bosses. > > > > > > Irrelevant. I'm talking about the discrepancy between the supposed "epicness" of the encounter and the actual feeling when you play it. Raids convey a sense of danger, of great difficulty. Story instances do not. Also wrong because of Dhuum. > > > > The epicness is subjective. To me Dragon stand was much more epic then the raid encounters. > > > > Don’t even get me started on Dhuum. You are comparing 10 players, Desmina and the reapers equals the power of an Elder Dragon? Yeah, nope. > > Overcoming greater challenge isn't subjective. You are right, however the epicness is subjective. Edit: Wing 1-3 to me, has no danger element, it’s the white mantle hiding in the jungle. The same white mantle that were frightened that the pact was coming into the jungle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > @"Pifil.5193" said: > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Palador.2170" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > > With all honesty, the coolest thing they can do is a raid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No. Just ... no. They can do better than that, and it's past time that we expect better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually they can't. Nothing will feel even remotely as epic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd challenge the idea that something being "epic" means "10 man instance" but hey, might be a different understanding of what "epic" means. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not about the number of players in the instance, it's about the challenge. That's the big problem with the story instances - we fight Balthazar, but the fight isn't really hard, a rando White Mantle zealot abusing bloodstone feels much more dangerous and because of that much more of an accomplishment when defeated. And it should be clear that they will never do anything remotely as challenging as a raid boss outside of a raid, except maybe in fractal CMs. So if you want a cool story - sure, it can be wherever. Probably best in the personal story, as the other instances tend to be paced shorter. But if you want an epic fight, nothing will come close to a raid boss, sorry. > > > > > > > > > > That’s a game mechanics vs lore, sort of argument. In reality, Mordremoth would kill all the raid bosses. > > > > > > > > Irrelevant. I'm talking about the discrepancy between the supposed "epicness" of the encounter and the actual feeling when you play it. Raids convey a sense of danger, of great difficulty. Story instances do not. Also wrong because of Dhuum. > > > > > > The epicness is subjective. To me Dragon stand was much more epic then the raid encounters. > > > > > > Don’t even get me started on Dhuum. You are comparing 10 players, Desmina and the reapers equals the power of an Elder Dragon? Yeah, nope. > > > > Overcoming greater challenge isn't subjective. > > Perhaps, but the view that greater challenge equates to more epic is. > > Watching the original Star War movie was an epic experience entailing no challenge on my part. Already debated this. My position remains - it's a waste in a videogame. Refer back to my posts for the details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > @"Pifil.5193" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Palador.2170" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > > > With all honesty, the coolest thing they can do is a raid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No. Just ... no. They can do better than that, and it's past time that we expect better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually they can't. Nothing will feel even remotely as epic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd challenge the idea that something being "epic" means "10 man instance" but hey, might be a different understanding of what "epic" means. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not about the number of players in the instance, it's about the challenge. That's the big problem with the story instances - we fight Balthazar, but the fight isn't really hard, a rando White Mantle zealot abusing bloodstone feels much more dangerous and because of that much more of an accomplishment when defeated. And it should be clear that they will never do anything remotely as challenging as a raid boss outside of a raid, except maybe in fractal CMs. So if you want a cool story - sure, it can be wherever. Probably best in the personal story, as the other instances tend to be paced shorter. But if you want an epic fight, nothing will come close to a raid boss, sorry. > > > > > > > > > > > > That’s a game mechanics vs lore, sort of argument. In reality, Mordremoth would kill all the raid bosses. > > > > > > > > > > Irrelevant. I'm talking about the discrepancy between the supposed "epicness" of the encounter and the actual feeling when you play it. Raids convey a sense of danger, of great difficulty. Story instances do not. Also wrong because of Dhuum. > > > > > > > > The epicness is subjective. To me Dragon stand was much more epic then the raid encounters. > > > > > > > > Don’t even get me started on Dhuum. You are comparing 10 players, Desmina and the reapers equals the power of an Elder Dragon? Yeah, nope. > > > > > > Overcoming greater challenge isn't subjective. > > > > Perhaps, but the view that greater challenge equates to more epic is. > > > > Watching the original Star War movie was an epic experience entailing no challenge on my part. > > Already debated this. My position remains - it's a waste in a videogame. Refer back to my posts for the details. Entitled to your opinion...a subjective measure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > @"Pifil.5193" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Palador.2170" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > > > With all honesty, the coolest thing they can do is a raid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No. Just ... no. They can do better than that, and it's past time that we expect better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually they can't. Nothing will feel even remotely as epic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd challenge the idea that something being "epic" means "10 man instance" but hey, might be a different understanding of what "epic" means. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not about the number of players in the instance, it's about the challenge. That's the big problem with the story instances - we fight Balthazar, but the fight isn't really hard, a rando White Mantle zealot abusing bloodstone feels much more dangerous and because of that much more of an accomplishment when defeated. And it should be clear that they will never do anything remotely as challenging as a raid boss outside of a raid, except maybe in fractal CMs. So if you want a cool story - sure, it can be wherever. Probably best in the personal story, as the other instances tend to be paced shorter. But if you want an epic fight, nothing will come close to a raid boss, sorry. > > > > > > > > > > > > That’s a game mechanics vs lore, sort of argument. In reality, Mordremoth would kill all the raid bosses. > > > > > > > > > > Irrelevant. I'm talking about the discrepancy between the supposed "epicness" of the encounter and the actual feeling when you play it. Raids convey a sense of danger, of great difficulty. Story instances do not. Also wrong because of Dhuum. > > > > > > > > The epicness is subjective. To me Dragon stand was much more epic then the raid encounters. > > > > > > > > Don’t even get me started on Dhuum. You are comparing 10 players, Desmina and the reapers equals the power of an Elder Dragon? Yeah, nope. > > > > > > Overcoming greater challenge isn't subjective. > > > > Perhaps, but the view that greater challenge equates to more epic is. > > > > Watching the original Star War movie was an epic experience entailing no challenge on my part. > > Already debated this. My position remains - it's a waste in a videogame. Refer back to my posts for the details. Sounds good. Opinions aren’t facts though. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Pifil.5193" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Palador.2170" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > With all honesty, the coolest thing they can do is a raid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No. Just ... no. They can do better than that, and it's past time that we expect better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually they can't. Nothing will feel even remotely as epic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd challenge the idea that something being "epic" means "10 man instance" but hey, might be a different understanding of what "epic" means. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not about the number of players in the instance, it's about the challenge. That's the big problem with the story instances - we fight Balthazar, but the fight isn't really hard, a rando White Mantle zealot abusing bloodstone feels much more dangerous and because of that much more of an accomplishment when defeated. And it should be clear that they will never do anything remotely as challenging as a raid boss outside of a raid, except maybe in fractal CMs. So if you want a cool story - sure, it can be wherever. Probably best in the personal story, as the other instances tend to be paced shorter. But if you want an epic fight, nothing will come close to a raid boss, sorry. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That’s a game mechanics vs lore, sort of argument. In reality, Mordremoth would kill all the raid bosses. > > > > > > > > > > > > Irrelevant. I'm talking about the discrepancy between the supposed "epicness" of the encounter and the actual feeling when you play it. Raids convey a sense of danger, of great difficulty. Story instances do not. Also wrong because of Dhuum. > > > > > > > > > > The epicness is subjective. To me Dragon stand was much more epic then the raid encounters. > > > > > > > > > > Don’t even get me started on Dhuum. You are comparing 10 players, Desmina and the reapers equals the power of an Elder Dragon? Yeah, nope. > > > > > > > > Overcoming greater challenge isn't subjective. > > > > > > Perhaps, but the view that greater challenge equates to more epic is. > > > > > > Watching the original Star War movie was an epic experience entailing no challenge on my part. > > > > Already debated this. My position remains - it's a waste in a videogame. Refer back to my posts for the details. > > Sounds good. Opinions aren’t facts though. ? Like you offered something that's a fact and not an opinion? It's all subjective, because ultimately it's all about personal perception. There are, however, common patterns in these personal perceptions. And the things I've outlined are such patterns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Pifil.5193" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Palador.2170" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > With all honesty, the coolest thing they can do is a raid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No. Just ... no. They can do better than that, and it's past time that we expect better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually they can't. Nothing will feel even remotely as epic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd challenge the idea that something being "epic" means "10 man instance" but hey, might be a different understanding of what "epic" means. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not about the number of players in the instance, it's about the challenge. That's the big problem with the story instances - we fight Balthazar, but the fight isn't really hard, a rando White Mantle zealot abusing bloodstone feels much more dangerous and because of that much more of an accomplishment when defeated. And it should be clear that they will never do anything remotely as challenging as a raid boss outside of a raid, except maybe in fractal CMs. So if you want a cool story - sure, it can be wherever. Probably best in the personal story, as the other instances tend to be paced shorter. But if you want an epic fight, nothing will come close to a raid boss, sorry. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That’s a game mechanics vs lore, sort of argument. In reality, Mordremoth would kill all the raid bosses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Irrelevant. I'm talking about the discrepancy between the supposed "epicness" of the encounter and the actual feeling when you play it. Raids convey a sense of danger, of great difficulty. Story instances do not. Also wrong because of Dhuum. > > > > > > > > > > > > The epicness is subjective. To me Dragon stand was much more epic then the raid encounters. > > > > > > > > > > > > Don’t even get me started on Dhuum. You are comparing 10 players, Desmina and the reapers equals the power of an Elder Dragon? Yeah, nope. > > > > > > > > > > Overcoming greater challenge isn't subjective. > > > > > > > > Perhaps, but the view that greater challenge equates to more epic is. > > > > > > > > Watching the original Star War movie was an epic experience entailing no challenge on my part. > > > > > > Already debated this. My position remains - it's a waste in a videogame. Refer back to my posts for the details. > > > > Sounds good. Opinions aren’t facts though. ? > > Like you offered something that's a fact and not an opinion? It's all subjective, because ultimately it's all about personal perception. There are, however, common patterns in these personal perceptions. And the things I've outlined are such patterns. If its all subjective, why did you claim otherwise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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