Suggestion: Stop putting exclusive skins behind RNG.

[yann.1946]

People are offended by the gambling practices because they spend more then they normally would.

I feel like people should take a look at sales. Cause they have the exact same consequence. ( you probably heard a story of someone who has more steam games they could ever play before.)

 

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"yann.1946" said:

> People are offended by the gambling practices because they spend more then they normally would.

> I feel like people should take a look at sales. Cause they have the exact same consequence. ( you probably heard a story of someone who has more steam games they could ever play before.)

>

 

At least they get what they want on these sales, instead of another revive orb.

[yann.1946]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"yann.1946" said:

> > People are offended by the gambling practices because they spend more then they normally would.

> > I feel like people should take a look at sales. Cause they have the exact same consequence. ( you probably heard a story of someone who has more steam games they could ever play before.)

> >

>

> At least they get what they want on these sales, instead of another revive orb.

 

We'll they trick then in buying things they don't want. It just feels like they wanted it.

 

Honestly gambling just feels worse but it almost the same thing.

[Algreg.3629]

but then noone would buy RNG stuff. Simple as that :P

[kharmin.7683]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"yann.1946" said:

> > People are offended by the gambling practices because they spend more then they normally would.

> > I feel like people should take a look at sales. Cause they have the exact same consequence. ( you probably heard a story of someone who has more steam games they could ever play before.)

> >

>

> At least they get what they want on these sales, instead of another revive orb.

 

True, but you knew before hand that you had a chance to get that revive orb.

[yann.1946]

> @"Algreg.3629" said:

> but then noone would buy RNG stuff. Simple as that :P

 

Not really. The only reason I buy adoption licenses is because they are rng. ?

[Zaklex.6308]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > @"yann.1946" said:

> > > > People are offended by the gambling practices because they spend more then they normally would.

> > > > I feel like people should take a look at sales. Cause they have the exact same consequence. ( you probably heard a story of someone who has more steam games they could ever play before.)

> > > >

> > >

> > > At least they get what they want on these sales, instead of another revive orb.

> >

> > True, but you knew before hand that you had a chance to get that revive orb.

>

> > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > @"yann.1946" said:

> > > > People are offended by the gambling practices because they spend more then they normally would.

> > > > I feel like people should take a look at sales. Cause they have the exact same consequence. ( you probably heard a story of someone who has more steam games they could ever play before.)

> > > >

> > >

> > > At least they get what they want on these sales, instead of another revive orb.

> >

> > True, but you knew before hand that you had a chance to get that revive orb.

>

> But I have no information from anet what my chances are. They only show these numbers for chinese client, because law made them to do so. So at this point gambling house hides information to cheat people into spending more money.

 

I wasn't going to say this in this thread, but I will again, and I'll keep saying it...under United States law, which is the country ArenaNet is based in, what they offer you in the BLC is NOT considered gambling, some players may consider it gambling, but under the law the definition of gambling states that if you do not have a chance of getting anything in return, then it is gambling. Since you are guaranteed to receive items from the BLC it is not considered gambling in this country, whether anyone likes it or not...so unless we change the definition of gambling, rng items will most likely never go away. I don't mind them, I don't mind buying keys...I also don't get that thrill that some people get when opening a chest and getting that rare item...I'm ambivalent, but then I'm that rare person that could care less if I get something I don't need or won't use(like another Teleport to Friend, already have 250 I'll never use, so just trash them). I'm a CONSUMER, I'm allowed to spend the money I earn on what ever I want to spend it on, I consume, and this game happens to be one of those things I spend my money on.

 

The bottom line is people should really stop complaining and just do what you want, it is every individuals responsibility to control their own spending, if they happen to like gambling, then so be it, let them gamble...it is not our place to tell others what to do with their money.

[kharmin.7683]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > @"yann.1946" said:

> > > > People are offended by the gambling practices because they spend more then they normally would.

> > > > I feel like people should take a look at sales. Cause they have the exact same consequence. ( you probably heard a story of someone who has more steam games they could ever play before.)

> > > >

> > >

> > > At least they get what they want on these sales, instead of another revive orb.

> >

> > True, but you knew before hand that you had a chance to get that revive orb.

>

> > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > @"yann.1946" said:

> > > > People are offended by the gambling practices because they spend more then they normally would.

> > > > I feel like people should take a look at sales. Cause they have the exact same consequence. ( you probably heard a story of someone who has more steam games they could ever play before.)

> > > >

> > >

> > > At least they get what they want on these sales, instead of another revive orb.

> >

> > True, but you knew before hand that you had a chance to get that revive orb.

>

> But I have no information from anet what my chances are. They only show these numbers for chinese client, because law made them to do so. So at this point gambling house hides information to cheat people into spending more money.

 

But the fact is you know that you have a chance even if you don't have the odds. You will never "lose" because you will always "win" something.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > But I have no information from anet what my chances are. They only show these numbers for chinese client, because law made them to do so. So at this point gambling house hides information to cheat people into spending more money.

>

> But the fact is you know that you have a chance even if you don't have the odds. You will never "lose" because you will always "win" something.

 

I think the more relevant point is that we have plenty of data that shows that 50 or 100 chests isn't enough to make it likely that we'll get a particular skin from the boxes. We (collectively) have sufficient information about the odds; we simply choose to ignore it.

 

Personally, it's fun for me to roll the dice. I care enough about the odds that I won't invest that much time or money, but not so much that I don't get a momentary thrill from anticipating that something cool might drop for me. Or more concisely: someone is going to win, why not me?

[Kuulpb.5412]

> @"Mirdave.2014" said:

>

> > Cause you only hurt yourself when you cant control your desire. However, not being able to control yourself and not understanding why they do this this way are two different things.

> > Its simply fact that they need to make money and that rngbasedsales seems to be more profitable then direct sells.

> > The other part is why should it matter to someone. I mean, sure, some skins can look sweet. But i would never fell like i have to buy keys so i have a chance for that skin, when i could instead use one of the many other skins in the game i could use instead.

> >

>

> Some ppl like this rng, they’re free to gamble every time they want. Who can’t control his desire to gamble despite the feeling of being cheated if they don’t get the item they want (see above, someone used this term) have a problem regardless Anet behavior and economical choice to have a higher profit selling keys instead of direct skins. Is hard for me have empathy for those who claims “i want this for sure, not rng, but i want to pay much less, maybe a misery, of what anet gain now by selling it through rng”... i dislike paying for gambling, I don’t do it (except with free keys as reward for map completion).

> Who say that they also don’t like the rng behind the market sales, i have an anecdote for them. Some month ago, after the PoF release, i’ve seen the plasma shield skin on the bank wardrobe, the perfect skin for my holosmith. Searched it on the TP: 300g. No thanks. A little research on the wiki: it was an old BL ticket skin, now out from the stage. When it will return? No idea. So I keep going with my bland asuran shiel skin, knowing that a) the price on tp may go down, b) the skin MAY will return SOME DAY IN THE FUTURE, then i’ll wait. Tha da, after one month the skin return as a rare drops from BLC, the price on TP fall down to 23g and now this shoeld is mine. I’ve only WAITED the return of it instead of WHINING on forums. Anet have already introduced the statuette as a way to gain interesting items previously only obtainable through rng, and much more things and skins make a return someday.

 

I never mentioned I wouldn't pay more, I've already spent like 3k gems on tyring to get it ( I think), I'm going to spend more to get it because it's close to an ok backpack for my outfit anyway. but I can't buy any keys for a while , so I hope they don't swap it out august 14th

[Kuulpb.5412]

> @"Crackmonster.2790" said:

> GW2 goes out of its way though to both protect yourself from RNG gambling as well as also make available gambled things at a later point in time for fixed price. This is one of the least predatory cashshops i have seen, and they actually take feedback from players if something they do is too offensive for players and react on it.

> They have these chests here and that is mostly just it, if you can't handle gambling then wait till at some point it becomes available. Funny thing is also, that you wasted much to gamble --> get those drops you need to buy it later at fixed price. It's like even again a protection system, all the wasted gambling accumulates into something you can later use to get what you gambled to get. Maybe they should put a big fat warning on the chests saying: "RNG DROPS - NOT GUARANTEED, ONLY GAMBLE IF YOU ARE OKAY WITH LOSING". They even have a thread for requesting returns of items in case they forget etc. Not sure if that thread works for the chests too but woudn't be surprised.

 

There is a CHANCE it will be back, but also a SUPER high hance it wont due to storm dagger also being there, and in statuettes it would ost 60, which means 60 chests/keys which if all bought eith gems form real money would be like £40-£50 anyway

 

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"CJH.2879" said:

> Part of marketing strategy is finding the best value per unit, the reality of it is there are more people whom support the gambling of BLC (keys) for specific rare items then there are those that are against it, if nobody gambled then ANET would have to approach things with a completely different strategy (for example selling the specific product at a highly inflated price directly). Essentially ANET will make more $$ selling many BLC keys then they would by selling the specific product you were after (only one time).

 

Exactly...

Rotating items is a strategy to create a sense of urgency to push people into a purchase they wouldn't make otherwise.

RNG is a strategy to make people purchase more items than they would otherwise.

 

It's all to maximize the profit. And for everyone saying "oh they need money, blah blah". There's other ways. Better ways.

They could have the gemstore stock available 100% of the time. And if they answer clutter, tell them it's 2018, there's a ton of on-line stores that work better and navigate better than the "uncluttered" Black Lion store in the game while sporting thousands or millions of items.

They could have a sensible, balanced price for every item, without resorting to antics or RNG. You want it, you buy it, you have it. No fuss, no muss.

 

Sadly, when it comes to monetization, Arena Net is threading the line between Digital Extremes and EA, and creeping closer to the later than the former.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> They could always do both. If the average drop rate from using keys is (for example) 1 out of 30 Keys they could charge 35 to 40 dollars for the skin. Then people could decide to buy outright or try to gamble. Of course if they charged the average price in keys to get the skin the forum would explode with cries of “cash grab.” I have the feeling that people who say “put it up for direct sale” mean ANet should sell it for 400-800 gems.

 

Kinda like how they have gone with the mount licence.. players got salty over random yet increasing odds on packs, so they offered a buy your choice option for a premium.. players still get salty.

So it wont matter what ANET invariably decides to do or not to do to accommodate the tears of those who feel robbed after making a decision all by themselves to buy keys and play a game of chance and then not get a specific item they wanted. Those same players then come on here and accuse ANET of being bad cos gambling, it's not fair, I loose lots money..... for a skin that offers no in game advantage.

No one forces anyone to buy anything from the gemstore, no one forces us to buy gems.. and everyone has the option to use in game currency to buy things offered in the gemstore.. but still the tears run salty. when someone looses that game of chance THEY chose to play.

[Tjdraxus.7143]

They're called **Microtransactions** and they are a part of a game's income, they don't hurt anyone (in GW2 at least, cause they're not pay to win)

Yeah its a bummer, trying to get skins and stuff like that, but in the other hand makes it more valuable once you have it

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Kuulpb.5412" said:

> You can keep putting weapon skins etc you can get via other means such as tickets in there, but for the love of the pale tree, stop putting exlcusive skins in black lion chests. I've spent 40 keys worth ( approx. 60% money 40% in game gold) and still don't have the jewelled scarab beetle.

 

Because it gets people to spend real money.

 

That's the only reason. I know it's annoying, but they need some means to fund the Living Story they are giving away for FREE, The Fractal Maps for FREE, the PvP Maps for FREE, the WvW Maps for FREE, the Seasonal events for FREE, and all the massive various stuff they do for FREE.

 

It's not free to them to do any of that.. they need to make a buck somehow.. and if that means hiding a bejewel lolly-pop dagger skin behind some RNG in a Loot Crate, then that is what they need to do.

 

I know it sucks bro.. but.. it is what it is.

[archmagus.7249]

Might I point out that not all skins are account bound. You can go on the TP and buy it there. Don't want to play RNG? Buy gems and convert to gold.

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Rhyse.8179" said:

> >> @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> > Also, ArenaNet _has_ offered items that can be obtained through RNG at a set price (in USD, among other currencies) (see Mount Select Licences), and some of the playerbase is unhappy with that, as well. You see, set prices are higher than taking chances with RNG. I'm sure you understand why.

>

> A set of 4 mounts is 2000. In what world does that make 1 mount worth 1200?

 

This world apparently because the people who own that one mount choose to sell it at that price and people do buy at that price.

[Tekoneiric.6817]

> @"Kuulpb.5412" said:

> You can keep putting weapon skins etc you can get via other means such as tickets in there, but for the love of the pale tree, stop putting exlcusive skins in black lion chests. I've spent 40 keys worth ( approx. 60% money 40% in game gold) and still don't have the jewelled scarab beetle.

 

This is why I don't like RNG on the gem store. It promotes gambling with real money plus it's in a game that children play in.

[Kuulpb.5412]

Just an update: 70 keys No scarab. this clearly shows that "uncommon" is not uncommon,

[Khisanth.2948]

> @"Tjdraxus.7143" said:

> They're called **Microtransactions** and they are a part of a game's income, they don't hurt anyone (in GW2 at least, cause they're not pay to win)

> Yeah its a bummer, trying to get skins and stuff like that, but in the other hand makes it more valuable once you have it

 

or sometimes not so micro ...

[Turk.5460]

> @"Tatwi.3562" said:

> > @"Mirdave.2014" said:

> > > @"Ephemiel.5694" said:

> > > Gotta get that money man, this indie game has to survive somehow.

> >

> > U’re so right. Why people don’t understand that the devs have to earn money somehow?

> People do understand that ArenaNet needs to earn money. People also understand that there's nothing stopping ArenaNet from making a web/game store where they sell in game items directly for ONLY real money. I am 100% positive that people would flock to a store where all the items were available all the time at set prices in USD, because it's convenient and transparent - no gambling/luck, just pick the item, pay for it, enjoy!

>

> I don't gamble. ArenaNet loses a sale every time:

>

> A. The item I want to buy isn't even available to buy....

> B. The only way to obtain the item is through gambling/luck.

 

Data shows that the loss of your purchase is overwhelmingly overshadowed by the revenue gained by these types of sales. And I think that's perfectly fine, this game has no subscription and, in my opinion, is *far* better than every other MMO available, subscription or not. If they create content that can get them revenue via the gemstore, I'm all for it, regardless if *I* want to pay or gamble for the content or not.

 

If I don't want to pay or gamble for it, then I probably don't want it.

If I want it, then I see paying/gambling as a form of support for a game I have sunk *thousands* of hours into at minimal cost relative to similar games.

[Emberstone.2904]

As much as I hate microtransactions (I avoid most mobile games and AAA games because of them), as long as they're for convenience or cosmetic items I don't really have a problem with them. Guild Wars 2 is far from a pay to win game.

 

They're just skins, and making enough gold to sift through a few chests isn't really all that hard these days.

 

Remember, the money that is spent on in-game skins and such go towards making new expansions, Fractals, Living World episodes, etc. They fuel the game we love.

[Kuulpb.5412]

I concede GW2 you win my luck is trash, 101 keys later ( Approximately £68 on keys and no scarab, I could have just as easily spent £50 on the backpack but nah :P, also I'm now so broke it isn't funny)

[artemis.6781]

> @"Kuulpb.5412" said:

> I concede GW2 you win my luck is trash, 101 keys later ( Approximately £68 on keys and no scarab, I could have just as easily spent £50 on the backpack but nah :P, also I'm now so broke it isn't funny)

 

The good news is that you now have at least 101 statuettes to use if they ever become available. Also, usually my luck is pretty crappy, but I got both with just 10 keys I had saved from map completion.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

> @"Khisanth.2948" said:

> Like the other back item combos it should be available for 60 statuettes so you should stop once you have either.

 

I'm fairly sure it will be, the question though is, how long will it take before it becomes available at the statuette vendor?

 

@ the OP - my sympathies. I nabbed it on my 2nd or 3rd chest I opened after it launched; probably the first uncommon I've received so far. My wife actually got it on the first BL chest she opened with the results of doing her very first weekly key run - happens to her in every MMO she plays =/