NERF MESMER

[Kondor.2904]

It's been six moths since the exhaustion introduction, and yet people still don't realize the true reason why mesmers take EM, and how in fact limiting and disadvantageous this trait is now. The moment they rework the trait along with removing the stunbreak on dodge and thus the exhaustion, you (people who qq about mesmers) are going to regret that more than ever.

[phokus.8934]

> @"Kondor.2904" said:

> It's been six moths since the exhaustion introduction, and yet people still don't realize the true reason why mesmers take EM, and how in fact limiting and disadvantageous this trait is now. The moment they rework the trait along with removing the stunbreak on dodge and thus the exhaustion, you (people who qq about mesmers) are going to regret that more than ever.

 

Uncle Rico, is that you?

 

There's no indication at all that they're going to change EM.

[Julius Seizure.4985]

> @"Kondor.2904" said:

> It's been six moths since the exhaustion introduction, and yet people still don't realize the true reason why mesmers take EM, and how in fact limiting and disadvantageous this trait is now. The moment they rework the trait along with removing the stunbreak on dodge and thus the exhaustion, you (people who qq about mesmers) are going to regret that more than ever.

 

Why? Because they have another incredibly powerful and broken trait in Infinite Horizon? I don’t think that is a good argument on why people should stop complaining about how OP this class is.

[Deus Fatorum.2473]

My gripe with mirage is actually quite small, I just don't like how their dodge mechanic acts essentially like an instant cast skill, even without taking elusive mind they can dodge while cc'd, casting other skills, and stomping/rezzing. It isn't even EM that pisses me off. a long time ago there were a handful of skills that could be dodged in while channeling like warriors axe 5, this was promptly removed from the game as a "bug" as it was considered far too imbalanced, now we have a whole class that can dodge while casting anything, during any cc, and even any action like stomping.

 

If you are going to be able to dodge while cc'd you should have to be able to at least trait for it(i.e. take elusive mind), as it is now they can run infinite horizon eat a stun they should have dodged and spam there mirage cloak while stunned(granted it doesn't stunbreak the stun so if the stun is long enough they are still "stunned") avoid all the damage that would have hit them as a consequence of said missed dodge, and in this case there clones if any are up are now pelting the enemy player.

 

I am all for skilled play and trade offs, but I do feel mechanically mirage cloak is a bit strong. Sadly I doubt anet would do anything to its mechanics, thus outside of some number tweaking which will either do very little or destroy the class all together I don't expect much change here.

[Vieux P.1238]

> @"Senteliks.2360" said:

> > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > To many clones. I wasting my burst on clones instead of the mesmer. Plz nerf the number of clones 1 at a time so i can target the mesmer. & plz remove stealth.

> > Mesmer with stealth is OP. & Also remove Elusive minds & Ambush from Mirage traits.

> > Thq

>

> You are basically asking to re-design the class or just make it plain useless. The limit is already set, it's 3 clones per say. "Unlimited" is just illusion for people like you who don't

> get idea that clones are generated by certain conditions, which mirage makes much easier and brainless. But at all times there can only be 3 clones. And remove Ambush from Mirage and you get useless specialization. Pff people just never cease to amaze me.

>

> While Mesmer in good player hands is challenging so is Thief, Warrior, Elemental, Engineer, Revenant, Ranger, Guardian, Necromancer (famous 2 hit win scourge BS move). Basically every profession on it's own to deal is pain in good hands. Revenant being an exception and Engineer because it requires too much effort to perform well.

>

> Rather, than giving pointless vent, how about constructive ideas to solve the problem. Look at the SB, pets doing all the hard lifting, or SB, or wait, where is the end to this? Whole balance is the mess and it's not just one profession that will fix it.

 

I'm not basically, ....i am asking to re-design the mesmer class to be useless. Gw2 should cater to my type of game play where i don't have to work to win. It should be easy & should not use any of my brain power or skills for me to win. So plz make it so my AA AOE explode any mesmer in my vicinity. Then i will be happy. But at the moment, it's so hard. sigh...

[breno.5423]

Just remove the break stun fact from dodge and its ok.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

> @"breno.5423" said:

> Just remove the break stun fact from dodge and its ok.

 

But why? EM was never that good. Infinite horizon on the other hand...

[Nyanladin.4291]

Wonder why ANet don't listen to any of the things the so little PvP community want

Everyone fucking wants to get the mesmer nerfed. Even high pro legends from PvP think mesmer need a nerf but i don't even know why ANet do nothing. They want everyone to just unninstall the game and when they see the number go down they'll do something?

[sephiroth.4217]

On some classes I don't stand a chance against a Mesmer, on other classes they don't stand a chance against me...

 

 

The only thing that I feel is unfair is the ability to cast/channel while dodging, that seems outside of the parameters of what's allowed to all the other classes.

[Odik.4587]

> @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> On some classes I don't stand a chance against a Mesmer, on other classes they don't stand a chance against me...

>

>

> The only thing that I feel is unfair is the ability to cast/channel while dodging, that seems outside of the parameters of what's allowed to all the other classes.

 

Thats extremely OP but same I can say about photon forge, full counter etc that brought by other elite specs .

> @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > @"breno.5423" said:

> > Just remove the break stun fact from dodge and its ok.

>

> But why? EM was never that good. Infinite horizon on the other hand...

 

O , someone recognize IH being cancerous even more than EM ... About that ... Axe ambush is broken as hell , just compare it to scepter ambush for example , poor scepter pales in comparision . You could nerf this reflect dodge (that basically have no cd) , BD, bleeds on pistol a bit ,axe ambush , if you touch dodge duration mesmer playerbase will burn your house xD

[Tom Hsiao.9705]

I think the whole clone or invis thing should just be removed! I’m amazed they did nothing to change this like it’s impossible to 1vs1 a decent Mesmer!!

I tried Mesmer (mirage) the other day just grab a build from a Friend and I was able to 1 va 3 without really knowing what I was doing... but I have played my elementalist for YEARs still can’t win 1 vs 3... this is some bs! Either give elementalist some massively strong summon to compensate or remove this whole bs at once!

 

I thought Mesmer was annoy at gw1 but you know whattt they weren’t really able to 1 vs 2 at gw1!!!! And can easily be gank and be done with...but this new Mesmer of gw2 is something else... high mobility can barely catch them and with all the insane burst with all the clone to confuse their foe and lose target this is just too op.

[Odik.4587]

> @"Tom Hsiao.9705" said:

1x3 w/o knowing what you doing? Was those enemies names are "heavy golem" ,"medium golem' and "light golem' ?

I think you need more ' ! ' in your post,after each word please

[Senteliks.2360]

> @"Tom Hsiao.9705" said:

> I think the whole clone or invis thing should just be removed! I’m amazed they did nothing to change this like it’s impossible to 1vs1 a decent Mesmer!!

> I tried Mesmer (mirage) the other day just grab a build from a Friend and I was able to 1 va 3 without really knowing what I was doing... but I have played my elementalist for YEARs still can’t win 1 vs 3... this is some bs! Either give elementalist some massively strong summon to compensate or remove this whole bs at once!

>

> I thought Mesmer was annoy at gw1 but you know whattt they weren’t really able to 1 vs 2 at gw1!!!! And can easily be gank and be done with...but this new Mesmer of gw2 is something else... high mobility can barely catch them and with all the insane burst with all the clone to confuse their foe and lose target this is just too op.

 

Er, I don't believe you. Maybe you successfully run away somewhere in 1 vs 3 but to actually win battle for someone who never touched mesmer is fairy tail, you tell to others and yourself. I had seen other mesmers on field and you can tell whatever they are rookies or not, by how they die like flies on the field because they think they are obnoxious in utilizing class.

[Imperadordf.2687]

> @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > @"breno.5423" said:

> > Just remove the break stun fact from dodge and its ok.

>

> But why? EM was never that good. Infinite horizon on the other hand...

 

Wat? EM was godlike before. Now IH is better just because Axe is meta. Nerf axe and you'll never see IH again.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

> @"Imperadordf.2687" said:

> > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > @"breno.5423" said:

> > > Just remove the break stun fact from dodge and its ok.

> >

> > But why? EM was never that good. Infinite horizon on the other hand...

>

> Wat? EM was godlike before. Now IH is better just because Axe is meta. Nerf axe and you'll never see IH again.

 

Are we talking Condi here? I dunno much about spvp Condi meta stuff but in wvw sword ambush with IH is pretty crazy, it also adds better dps with gs. I never though of EM being godlike since you already had mirage cloak which made any stun burst kinda meh anyway.

[sephiroth.4217]

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> > On some classes I don't stand a chance against a Mesmer, on other classes they don't stand a chance against me...

> >

> >

> > The only thing that I feel is unfair is the ability to cast/channel while dodging, that seems outside of the parameters of what's allowed to all the other classes.

>

> Thats extremely OP but same I can say about photon forge, full counter etc that brought by other elite specs .

> > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > @"breno.5423" said:

> > > Just remove the break stun fact from dodge and its ok.

> >

> > But why? EM was never that good. Infinite horizon on the other hand...

>

> O , someone recognize IH being cancerous even more than EM ... About that ... Axe ambush is broken as hell , just compare it to scepter ambush for example , poor scepter pales in comparision . You could nerf this reflect dodge (that basically have no cd) , BD, bleeds on pistol a bit ,axe ambush , if you touch dodge duration mesmer playerbase will burn your house xD

 

Imagine if you could freely cast during full counter though... Just seems a little too much.

[Abazigal.3679]

From my point of view , the issue isn't about mesmer being op but about the way condis are applied and the learning curve. Most of the time you're going to take 5 conditions from one way which will be considered " out of nowhere ".

 

Whatever, the biggest problem remains in the confusion condition. 2 Ideas of rework :

- No damage received when auto attack

- Damage received when the skill hits or finishs to cast, not when click.

 

 

[Odik.4587]

> @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> > > On some classes I don't stand a chance against a Mesmer, on other classes they don't stand a chance against me...

> > >

> > >

> > > The only thing that I feel is unfair is the ability to cast/channel while dodging, that seems outside of the parameters of what's allowed to all the other classes.

> >

> > Thats extremely OP but same I can say about photon forge, full counter etc that brought by other elite specs .

> > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > > @"breno.5423" said:

> > > > Just remove the break stun fact from dodge and its ok.

> > >

> > > But why? EM was never that good. Infinite horizon on the other hand...

> >

> > O , someone recognize IH being cancerous even more than EM ... About that ... Axe ambush is broken as hell , just compare it to scepter ambush for example , poor scepter pales in comparision . You could nerf this reflect dodge (that basically have no cd) , BD, bleeds on pistol a bit ,axe ambush , if you touch dodge duration mesmer playerbase will burn your house xD

>

> Imagine if you could freely cast during full counter though... Just seems a little too much.

what you talking about question mark

[Crab Fear.1624]

It seems the only real "issue" with mesmers right now is how mirage cloak works.

 

I understand the dodge mechanic change and the appearance to trick/confuse enemies, but it SHOULD NOT BE USABLE IF STUNNED

**unless the player chooses EM trait.**

 

I see the dev's tied a "exhaustion" fee to the trait, but you can still dodge while stunned even if you don't break stun, you still essentially negate the follow up burst.

 

Maybe even all classes should get this "dodge on stun" ...even if it just move us a little away from the enemy so he can't do his burst (even if we can't use skills)

 

Doesn't sound right to me either.

 

It's not thematic, it's an unfair advantage in a competitive scene. It really should be tied to the trait with the "exhaustion" cost.

 

After that all is well.

 

 

[phokus.8934]

> @"Abazigal.3679" said:

> From my point of view , the issue isn't about mesmer being op but about the way condis are applied and the learning curve. Most of the time you're going to take 5 conditions from one way which will be considered " out of nowhere ".

>

> Whatever, the biggest problem remains in the confusion condition. 2 Ideas of rework :

> - No damage received when auto attack

> - Damage received when the skill hits or finishs to cast, not when click.

>

>

 

I don't think they need to change how confusion works. The biggest culprit with condition Mesmer is the number of conditions they can put on you giving them condi coverage. Bleed, torment, confusion, burning, and vulnerability in one go is a bit much.

 

I just don't think they should put out that many unique conditions with relative ease.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"phokus.8934" said:

> > @"Abazigal.3679" said:

> > From my point of view , the issue isn't about mesmer being op but about the way condis are applied and the learning curve. Most of the time you're going to take 5 conditions from one way which will be considered " out of nowhere ".

> >

> > Whatever, the biggest problem remains in the confusion condition. 2 Ideas of rework :

> > - No damage received when auto attack

> > - Damage received when the skill hits or finishs to cast, not when click.

> >

> >

>

> I don't think they need to change how confusion works. The biggest culprit with condition Mesmer is the number of conditions they can put on you giving them condi coverage. Bleed, torment, confusion, burning, and vulnerability in one go is a bit much.

>

> I just don't think they should put out that many unique conditions with relative ease.

 

Eh I think is the first time I've seen someone complain about the range of condis on the mirage, lol... Because its pathetic compared to a scourge. There is a reason its considered weak vs condi cleanse.

 

Now, the **amount of stacks** for each individual condi and the speed of which it can be reapplied is a whole other matter. 20+ of anything is ridiculous and the mirage reach 40+. Remember the good old times before deathly chill when 10 bleed stacks was a bomb?

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> It seems the only real "issue" with mesmers right now is how mirage cloak works.

>

> I understand the dodge mechanic change and the appearance to trick/confuse enemies, but it SHOULD NOT BE USABLE IF STUNNED

> **unless the player chooses EM trait.**

 

This would work for me too. Then Infinite Horizon would be your damage GM and Elusive Mind would be your defensive GM.

 

 

 

[phokus.8934]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"phokus.8934" said:

> > > @"Abazigal.3679" said:

> > > From my point of view , the issue isn't about mesmer being op but about the way condis are applied and the learning curve. Most of the time you're going to take 5 conditions from one way which will be considered " out of nowhere ".

> > >

> > > Whatever, the biggest problem remains in the confusion condition. 2 Ideas of rework :

> > > - No damage received when auto attack

> > > - Damage received when the skill hits or finishs to cast, not when click.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > I don't think they need to change how confusion works. The biggest culprit with condition Mesmer is the number of conditions they can put on you giving them condi coverage. Bleed, torment, confusion, burning, and vulnerability in one go is a bit much.

> >

> > I just don't think they should put out that many unique conditions with relative ease.

>

> Eh I think is the first time I've seen someone complain about the range of condis on the mirage, lol... Because its pathetic compared to a scourge. There is a reason its considered weak vs condi cleanse.

>

> Now, the **amount of stacks** for each individual condi and the speed of which it can be reapplied is a whole other matter. 20+ of anything is ridiculous and the mirage reach 40+. Remember the good old times before deathly chill when 10 bleed stacks was a bomb?

 

I play Mirage and have played Mesmer since day one and the number of cover condis for confusion is kind of high. Hell you can (or did) hit high burn ticks that rivaled guardians. With FIFO on condi cleanse and with condi cover from poison, torment, and vuln, it makes for some hair raising damage.

 

Just in my opinion, I don't think the number of stacks is the main problem.

[Odik.4587]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> the mirage reach 40+.

 

You are on high or ?

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > It seems the only real "issue" with mesmers right now is how mirage cloak works.

> >

> > I understand the dodge mechanic change and the appearance to trick/confuse enemies, but it SHOULD NOT BE USABLE IF STUNNED

> > **unless the player chooses EM trait.**

>

> This would work for me too. Then Infinite Horizon would be your damage GM and Elusive Mind would be your defensive GM.

>

>

>

 

Even with that change you will still cry (until its becomes as bad as renegade),what the point?:d

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > the mirage reach 40+.

>

> You are on high or ?

> > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > It seems the only real "issue" with mesmers right now is how mirage cloak works.

> > >

> > > I understand the dodge mechanic change and the appearance to trick/confuse enemies, but it SHOULD NOT BE USABLE IF STUNNED

> > > **unless the player chooses EM trait.**

> >

> > This would work for me too. Then Infinite Horizon would be your damage GM and Elusive Mind would be your defensive GM.

> >

> >

> >

>

> Even with that change you will still cry (until its becomes as bad as renegade),what the point?:d

 

Please tell me other aspects of my future, fortuneteller. <3

 

I play mesmer. I also play revenant. I just dislike people cheesing wins and labeling it "skill", or people struggling just to perform at baseline with whatever class they like the most. Mesmer has a pretty large buffer to sit on before any large facet of their core or elites become unplayable. They'll handle having to pick one GM for defense over one for damage, just like everyone else.