I prefer PoF to HoT

[Karaha.3290]

HoT maps are way more popular and more visited than PoF maps so... what fiasco?

[Karaha.3290]

> @"battledrone.8315" said:

> > @"Goettel.4389" said:

> > Let's see: HoT maps are usually pretty full, PoF is a desert (punt intended).

> > Do the math OP :-)

>

> if it was that good, it would be stupid to change it...but they did..do the math

> furthermore, if it was so successful, as you claim, you can bet that they would already had made more like it

> money talks, bull... walks

 

It's not because HoT was bad or something. It's just like not everyone liked this mapwide events (like the OP i guess).

It's pretty obvious that Anet want to provide content to more ppl, not only to those who like HoT styled maps.

That's just about what Anet said.

 

And it's just logic, why should you try to sell two pieces of the same meat, if you have a bunch of ppl loving fish. :)

[otto.5684]

Mmm?! Currently HoT maps are far more active than PoF maps, even though they are 2 years older. That does not mean HoT maps do not have issues. Their is an initial gating, plus TD and DS are mostly metas. However, their is tons of extremely well designed and rewarding content. PoF maps are empty deserts with nothing to do and little to no reward.

[Voltekka.2375]

> @"buntalanlucu.4036" said:

> The PoF expansion breath new life for GW2 with it's highly accesible content for everyone and buck the trend of zone wide Meta Events from HoT , a game design that truly ignore the majority of MMORPG players which is solo explorer / casuals.

>

> Is PoF change of direction came from Arena.Net's realization that not everyone enjoy group-only content and endless meta event ala HoT ? From the soloable Heroic Points in PoF , a reverse of the foolish design decision to gate HoT's HP in group content (the combat HP , not the Commune HP).. The easy to level Mount Masteries compared to HoT incredibly hard to level masteries for casual players , masteries in HoT are geared for group players doing meta events , in which one can get fast leveling.. but alas casual players will get bored with the mastery gating before they QUIT the whole game.

>

> Another example is the first zone of expansion. PoF started with very casual friendly and very explorer friendly zone in the Oasis , while HoT started in the most incredibly annoying and mastery gated Verdant Brink zone..

>

> I hope this will be the trend for the next GW2 expansion , cater for the casual players which is the majority of MMORPG players including GW2.. Add a single map for zone wide meta event players that a casual dont need to join to enjoy the expansion.

>

> cheers

 

I like HoT better. Even its story, I have done it 6+times. Whereas the PoF one, I dragged myself through it 3times cause of those banner backpacks...

[RazielSpecter.6295]

Fiasco? Wth? You use your own opinion as if it were everyone's. Please, just shut up.

[Solaris.2489]

I vastly prefered HoT, the maps where really complex and had incredible attention to detail. The anticipation of a map meta event starting with lots of other people was also way more fun than the champ trains in PoF. There are a few meta events in PoF but they just feel underwhelming and the maps are all just 1 flat plane.

[Steve The Cynic.3217]

> @"Catchyfx.5768" said:

> I like both of them, I like HoT is dangerous its a jungle not Central Park

 

I find this statement bizarre. I mean, I know the authorities in NYC have done a lot of work since then(1), but I lived in upstate NY during the early 80s, and "Central Park" was shorthand for "place you don't go if you like being alive". It was *beyond* notorious for muggings, murders, and other crimes that probably get kittened out if I mention their common names. On that basis, I'd rather go to a jungle.

 

(1) Indeed, in 2004 I was in NYC for a couple of weeks for work-related reasons and needed *something* to do over the weekend, so I spent some time wandering around Central Park without the slightest problem. It had a really friendly feel to it.

 

Back on topic: I like both of them. As I've refined my play style since I came back a short while before HoT was released, I've become more comfortable with it. At first, it was a bit nightmarish, but what with the nerfs and my improvement, I'm much less fussed by it now. Where PoF wins, of course, is all those echoes from GW1, less annoying enemies, and something else that I don't remember what it is.

 

Oh, yes, I remember.

 

Mounts. The mostest awesomest mounts I've seen in any MMORPG that I've played. The sports cars in ArcheAge were fun, but only half the speed of Petey, and even less controllable at that speed than Petey is at full speed. (They would also only do that speed on fairly steep downhill stretches, and would roll over and crash hard if you ran over anything more substantial than a blade of grass. 30 metres/sec = 67 mph on dirt tracks.)

 

But I like both styles of maps, and I don't mind the differences in meta layout.

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Karaha.3290" said:

> > @"battledrone.8315" said:

> > > @"Goettel.4389" said:

> > > Let's see: HoT maps are usually pretty full, PoF is a desert (punt intended).

> > > Do the math OP :-)

> >

> > if it was that good, it would be stupid to change it...but they did..do the math

> > furthermore, if it was so successful, as you claim, you can bet that they would already had made more like it

> > money talks, bull... walks

>

> It's not because HoT was bad or something. It's just like not everyone liked this mapwide events (like the OP i guess).

> It's pretty obvious that Anet want to provide content to more ppl, not only to those who like HoT styled maps.

> That's just about what Anet said.

>

> And it's just logic, why should you try to sell two pieces of the same meat, if you have a bunch of ppl loving fish. :)

 

Hopefully they'll listen this time around and instead of going full swing in the opposite direction, they'll take what worked from each expansion and apply it to the next. PoF did some things right, including learning from some of the mistakes of HoT, but its biggest failure was in rejecting what made HoT great.

[Catchyfx.5768]

> @"Steve The Cynic.3217" said:

> > @"Catchyfx.5768" said:

> > I like both of them, I like HoT is dangerous its a jungle not Central Park

>

> I find this statement bizarre. I mean, I know the authorities in NYC have done a lot of work since then(1), but I lived in upstate NY during the early 80s, and "Central Park" was shorthand for "place you don't go if you like being alive". It was *beyond* notorious for muggings, murders, and other crimes that probably get kittened out if I mention their common names. On that basis, I'd rather go to a jungle.

>

> (1) Indeed, in 2004 I was in NYC for a couple of weeks for work-related reasons and needed *something* to do over the weekend, so I spent some time wandering around Central Park without the slightest problem. It had a really friendly feel to it.

>

> Back on topic: I like both of them. As I've refined my play style since I came back a short while before HoT was released, I've become more comfortable with it. At first, it was a bit nightmarish, but what with the nerfs and my improvement, I'm much less fussed by it now. Where PoF wins, of course, is all those echoes from GW1, less annoying enemies, and something else that I don't remember what it is.

>

> Oh, yes, I remember.

>

> Mounts. The mostest awesomest mounts I've seen in any MMORPG that I've played. The sports cars in ArcheAge were fun, but only half the speed of Petey, and even less controllable at that speed than Petey is at full speed. (They would also only do that speed on fairly steep downhill stretches, and would roll over and crash hard if you ran over anything more substantial than a blade of grass. 30 metres/sec = 67 mph on dirt tracks.)

>

> But I like both styles of maps, and I don't mind the differences in meta layout.

 

Oh I mean that romantic movies walkies thru the park while slow music is on and they both are running hand to hand like Chrono tank and Chrono Support.

 

I love HoT maps they helped me be better player. Dont like EZ content

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"buntalanlucu.4036" said:

> Is PoF change of direction came from Arena.Net's realization that not everyone enjoy group-only content and endless meta event ala HoT ?

 

While HoT has said huge (and highly popular, by the way) meta events, it doesn't keep anyone from solo-playing and ignoring the meta. I am not an advocate for HoT here, don't get me wrong - there are several aspects of that expansion that I disliked a lot at release and that took me quite some time to get used to. But I really don't mind its meta events, even when I rarely participate in them.

[Trise.2865]

...or, maybe it's the next part of the story and is largely unrelated to the previous ones, like a book/tv series or tabletop session.

[JDub.1530]

I don't know about anyone else, by my guild kind of withered after HoT, bot because of HoT but because of what came after: nothing. Some had already vanished and only came back for HoT. But by the new year, people had finished masteries, finished achievements, crafted the new Legendaries they wanted, and run several characters through story and had nothing to do.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"JDub.1530" said:

> I don't know about anyone else, by my guild kind of withered after HoT, bot because of HoT but because of what came after: nothing. Some had already vanished and only came back for HoT. But by the new year, people had finished masteries, finished achievements, crafted the new Legendaries they wanted, and run several characters through story and had nothing to do.

 

It certainly didn’t help having a content drought (7+ months) before and after the expansion.

[JDub.1530]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"JDub.1530" said:

> > I don't know about anyone else, by my guild kind of withered after HoT, bot because of HoT but because of what came after: nothing. Some had already vanished and only came back for HoT. But by the new year, people had finished masteries, finished achievements, crafted the new Legendaries they wanted, and run several characters through story and had nothing to do.

>

> It certainly didn’t help having a content drought (7+ months) before and after the expansion.

 

Exactly

[foozlesprite.8051]

I much prefer PoF. HoT's obnoxious hero points and enemies almost entirely ruined the experience for me. I've been taking several alts through and with the PoF elites it's not as bad, but the convoluted maps really don't add to the experience for me (and for many of the HPs the only way you're getting them done is if you find a train - which happen often, but you have to be available at the right times to catch them).

 

Exploring is fine! I love exploring, and the HoT maps are gorgeous, but the _joy_ of exploring was overridden by the _frustration_ of exploring. The absolute best thing they did out there was the metas, and people still do those fairly consistently, which is a ton of fun. There are technically mini-metas in PoF zones but they don't seem to be done often. HoT was better in that respect. While the maps in PoF still have verticality they're a relative joy to explore with the new mounts.

 

The thing that made HoT a 'fiasco' in many peoples' minds was all the content that was cut. We got promises that were never delivered on, and things left dangling in the plot/maps that were never explained or followed up on. Some examples:

 

There's an entire lane in Dragon's Stand that you can break into, as well as another area, and both were listed under the achievement for exploring DS until they patched the names out of the list post-launch (the areas are still there). There's a named, voiced Nightmare Court NPC that helps you out on the islands at the end of the meta there - likely part of the cut lane. Given her title of Duchess, she _could_ potentially be in line to lead the Court after the death of Faolain. There's a Mordrem boss near the south of Auric Basin that taunts you, but you can't fight her or see her anywhere else - presumably she would have been the boss of that cut lane, similar to Hareth/Diarmid/Adryn. There's a prototype video of a planned second stage of the Mordremoth fight. I'm not a raider myself, but they seem to be very upset about the small number of raids, and the release rate after the initial HoT release.

 

_And oh my god what happened to Malyck and the other Tree!?_

 

That's the tip of the iceberg as far as things that were cut due to project management/timeline issues. So yeah, a lot of people call it a fiasco. While HoT did have high points, I mostly agree with that sentiment.

[Milan.9035]

I spend 75% of my game time on pvp as a rev so pof was quite a big waste of my money. Everyone makes mistakes.

[Ferus.3165]

PoF maps are dead not even a year after their release (have fun doing the group events necessary for collections/achievments as a casual with random equip that plays 3 hours each week)

HoT maps are still played and every group event can still be done in a relatively short amount of time

 

That speaks for itself, PoF was practically a failure given that the whole expac was practically just one big ls story update that you play once and then abandon.

 

Both expacs brought elite specs and maps.

HoT brought a new class, the mastery system, the elite spec system, a new wvw map, a new pvp mode, a new set of legendary weapons and legendary armor + backpieces, fractal overhaul (even if that was questionable), the new scribing profession and gliding.

PoF gave us mounts.

 

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"foozlesprite.8051" said:

> I much prefer PoF. HoT's obnoxious hero points and enemies almost entirely ruined the experience for me. I've been taking several alts through and with the PoF elites it's not as bad, but the convoluted maps really don't add to the experience for me (and for many of the HPs the only way you're getting them done is if you find a train - which happen often, but you have to be available at the right times to catch them).

>

> Exploring is fine! I love exploring, and the HoT maps are gorgeous, but the _joy_ of exploring was overridden by the _frustration_ of exploring. The absolute best thing they did out there was the metas, and people still do those fairly consistently, which is a ton of fun. There are technically mini-metas in PoF zones but they don't seem to be done often. HoT was better in that respect. While the maps in PoF still have verticality they're a relative joy to explore with the new mounts.

>

> The thing that made HoT a 'fiasco' in many peoples' minds was all the content that was cut. **We got promises that were never delivered on, and things left dangling in the plot/maps that were never explained or followed up on**. Some examples:

>

> There's an entire lane in Dragon's Stand that you can break into, as well as another area, and both were listed under the achievement for exploring DS until they patched the names out of the list post-launch (the areas are still there). There's a named, voiced Nightmare Court NPC that helps you out on the islands at the end of the meta there - likely part of the cut lane. Given her title of Duchess, she _could_ potentially be in line to lead the Court after the death of Faolain. There's a Mordrem boss near the south of Auric Basin that taunts you, but you can't fight her or see her anywhere else - presumably she would have been the boss of that cut lane, similar to Hareth/Diarmid/Adryn. There's a prototype video of a planned second stage of the Mordremoth fight. I'm not a raider myself, but they seem to be very upset about the small number of raids, and the release rate after the initial HoT release.

>

> _And oh my god what happened to Malyck and the other Tree!?_

>

> That's the tip of the iceberg as far as things that were cut due to project management/timeline issues. So yeah, a lot of people call it a fiasco. While HoT did have high points, I mostly agree with that sentiment.

 

How’s what you listed considered “promises”? During development things get added and removed. Did they specifically state that any of these things were definitely going to be included?

[foozlesprite.8051]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"foozlesprite.8051" said:

> > I much prefer PoF. HoT's obnoxious hero points and enemies almost entirely ruined the experience for me. I've been taking several alts through and with the PoF elites it's not as bad, but the convoluted maps really don't add to the experience for me (and for many of the HPs the only way you're getting them done is if you find a train - which happen often, but you have to be available at the right times to catch them).

> >

> > Exploring is fine! I love exploring, and the HoT maps are gorgeous, but the _joy_ of exploring was overridden by the _frustration_ of exploring. The absolute best thing they did out there was the metas, and people still do those fairly consistently, which is a ton of fun. There are technically mini-metas in PoF zones but they don't seem to be done often. HoT was better in that respect. While the maps in PoF still have verticality they're a relative joy to explore with the new mounts.

> >

> > The thing that made HoT a 'fiasco' in many peoples' minds was all the content that was cut. **We got promises that were never delivered on, and things left dangling in the plot/maps that were never explained or followed up on**. Some examples:

> >

> > There's an entire lane in Dragon's Stand that you can break into, as well as another area, and both were listed under the achievement for exploring DS until they patched the names out of the list post-launch (the areas are still there). There's a named, voiced Nightmare Court NPC that helps you out on the islands at the end of the meta there - likely part of the cut lane. Given her title of Duchess, she _could_ potentially be in line to lead the Court after the death of Faolain. There's a Mordrem boss near the south of Auric Basin that taunts you, but you can't fight her or see her anywhere else - presumably she would have been the boss of that cut lane, similar to Hareth/Diarmid/Adryn. There's a prototype video of a planned second stage of the Mordremoth fight. I'm not a raider myself, but they seem to be very upset about the small number of raids, and the release rate after the initial HoT release.

> >

> > _And oh my god what happened to Malyck and the other Tree!?_

> >

> > That's the tip of the iceberg as far as things that were cut due to project management/timeline issues. So yeah, a lot of people call it a fiasco. While HoT did have high points, I mostly agree with that sentiment.

>

> How’s what you listed considered “promises”? During development things get added and removed. Did they specifically state that any of these things were definitely going to be included?

 

I was mostly talking about cut/unfinished content in my examples, a lot of which still existed in the game prior to launch and was taken out. If they're going to do something as large as hide a lane in DS (which I don't mind as much for balance's sake) I feel like they should have removed the associated NPCs. I regularly see groups asking why they can't fight Blademaster Cellona in Auric Basin despite her being named, having four named pets, and taunting the player. And almost every single DS run results in at least one person complaining that Mordremoth's abrupt death is 'lame.'

 

As for **promised** content, that I'm not sure about as much, but the seemingly-common player _perception_ of them contributes to the overall impression of it being a 'fiasco.' I know there was a post about the new generation of legendaries that said there were going to be groups of legendaries released at regular intervals, and they weren't. We have had a few since then, but most have been one-offs rather than groups or have come with PoF. I _think_ there was talk about WvW/PvP updates that were promised but not given, but I don't participate in those playstyles much so I can't speak to the veracity of that at all.

 

I do understand that content is added/removed during development, but there were dev comments on the forums and Reddit showcasing some of these features, and I've seen people side-eye the fact that they were comfortable enough to showcase them but cut them anyways - those are probably regarded as broken promises, in some peoples' minds.

 

Considering my choice of topic to focus on there, I likely should have left out 'promised content' as far as my personal opinion goes. But it seems to be a fairly common view among those that give feedback in map chat, forums, and Reddit. Apologies for the majority of my comment and opinion being devoted to one half of that.

[Dreadshow.9320]

Didn't know they needed to apologize both are fascinating.

[DragonSlayer.1087]

> @"Catchyfx.5768" said:

> I like both of them, I like HoT is dangerous its a jungle not Central Park

 

Haha that's funny.

 

Back to the topic. I don't understand the HoT hate. That expansion was very well thought out I think. The maps are intricate, the story is challenging, the metas are engaging, the enemies are difficult. To me PoF feels more rushed however I really like the open map and the fact that you can solo pretty much all of the HPs to unlock the Elite Specs.

[Hellcop.4981]

I'm one of the people that quit playing when HoT came out. I returned to the game about 6-8 months later. I still avoid the four main HoT maps, but I enjoy the living world maps. I enjoyed the PoF maps, but I agree they could have added more metas.

[Rhyse.8179]

I'd say HoT is actually the better product - now that they've fixed it.

 

Granted, when it released it was a hot mess. A few of those problems remain, but are much more tolerable. The mastery-locking of map content for example is still there for example, but much less painful since you get mastery xp 4x faster then before.

 

As HOT stands today, it has more interesting maps, well-designed meta events, better fights, and better map rewards. A new HoT buyer can unlock their elite spec by the second map, get just enough mastery to navigate properly (not including the initial gliding/mushroom wall in VB) but still have a long term goal to shoot for, and is introduced to many new rewards/goals along the way. The one downside is no non-meta maps, so casual explorers are kind of left out. And also TD, which is still the worst map in the game.

 

PoF on the other hand has no metas, lousy fights, and almost no rewards at all, and a lot of map content is still mastery gated (although not nearly as much, and the masteries unlock even faster). Introducing mounts meant the zones had to be bigger, with more open space, so there's a constant feeling of there being nothing to do. A new PoF player gets an instant mount, and an explorable zone that's pretty much equivalent to vanilla content (Crystal Oasis). Aside from the personal story, there's nothing driving anyone forward and even then you can finish it and still have only about 10 or 20% exploration done. The only reason I knew that big events like Augury Rock even existed at all is because I happened to be there unlocking Hero Points for my alts and I heard someone yelling about it map chat. I still havn't found any long term goals worth pursuing other then the Griffon. I still go back to HoT maps, but PoF maps are boring and/or tedious.

 

HoT has great depth and longevity, but a difficult entry barrier. PoF has no entry barrier, but no depth either.

[battledrone.8315]

"well designed meta events"....lol...carrying supply boxes from A to B is some EPIC gameplay

[battledrone.8315]

> @"RazielSpecter.6295" said:

> Fiasco? Wth? You use your own opinion as if it were everyone's. Please, just shut up.

 

you may like it, but it cost them a lot of money and goodwill

now, theyre making the same, as a game with roughly 300k subs

i guess even SWTOR has more paying customers at this point