Why are we discouraging players from returning to the game?

[Rod.6581]

This is a problem for new players. I don't know the solution but it is a problem.

 

I also agree with Aridon on multiple points, but not on sub. We don't need sub here.

[MetalGirl.2370]

How hard is it to login for literally 10 seconds in 3 months to get story... :/

 

As for people never playing a game for 7 years straight, you can speak for yourself because I played GW2 since launch every single day (my only 4 breaks were 7 days long each and that's because I went on a vacation with my boyfriend-other than that, I don't miss a day) and I plan on playing for as long as it lasts

[kharmin.7683]

> @"Aridon.8362" said:

 

> It's great to know the problem but howw can this be fixed? Throw in a sub fee for 5 dollars a month ...

 

Yeah, it's only $5, but this would end GW2 for me and I'd guess many other casuals. If I had to list all of the reasons I play GW2, no sub fee would be at the top of the list.

[Danikat.8537]

I cut this down to the 'headline' sentences for each section, because it's probably going to be right below the original post so it's easy for people to see the full version and would otherwise be very long.

 

> @"Aridon.8362" said:

> I don't understand why people are talking about living story.

 

Because that's the problem the OP stated, so that's the one we're discussing. If you wanted a general "what don't you like about GW2?" topic there's plenty to choose from.

 

> @"Aridon.8362" said:

> The biggest and most absolute reason people aren't coming back, simply put is because there's no reward for new content. If you look at everything that has came out every patch you don't get new armor or weapons, you don't get mount skins like they give you in wow, you just don't get rewarded for saying "I was here for this".

 

Do you have any proof for that? Anecdotal or otherwise. A link to a discussion where multiple people have said that puts them off, especially that it's a bigger barrier than the cost of buying all the content they missed? I would have thought by now most MMO players know that GW2 was designed to be a 'casual friendly' horizontal progression game which doesn't add new levels or more powerful items on a regular basis (or ever) so the ones who aren't interested in a game that doesn't offer that progression aren't waiting for a reason to come back. If they are then they're wasting their time because it's almost certainly never going to happen.

 

However, if you mean armour and weapon _skins_ or exotic/ascended equipment rather than more powerful items then you're absolutely wrong that we don't get them. The latest release actually includes a new armour skin with two variations for each armour weight ([Elegy](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elegy_armor_(medium) "Elegy") and [Requiem](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Requiem_armor_(medium) "Requiem") armour), each episode awards an armour piece for completing the meta-event and we often get new weapons too. We've only had one new mount so far, but there are rumours of others coming in future.

 

> @"Aridon.8362" said:

And the lack of any sign of progression and moments that a player like Asmongold would stuff zebra cakes on his face for, simply not being there, just adds to that spice that fuels people telling others not to come back.

 

I'm not sure if this is a typo or a reference to an in-joke I'm not privy to, but if your friend is unhappy with the lack of progression then as I said either they've misunderstood what type of game this is (in which case it's not worth waiting for a reason to come back) or they're missing the stuff which is available, maybe because it's not awarded by direct drops from bosses or other traditional sources.

 

> @"Aridon.8362" said:

> It's great to know the problem but howw can this be fixed? Throw in a sub fee for 5 dollars a month and start putting in a progression system that gives players something to actually have to work for than to farm 1000 times for.And to push more new content that fits people's wants into pvp and WvW. If you look at wvw it is an absolute mess

 

That sounds like a great way to lose the majority of players we've currently got. I know I'd quit if the game changed because the lack of a subscription fee and vertical progression is exactly what I like about this game, and from previous discussions on the forum I know I'm not alone in that. Myabe it would attract some other people to replace those who left, but is there really any point in trying to swap the population of a 6 year old game, especially for people who already have a wide variety of MMOs to choose from?

 

I can't comment on PvP as I never play it.

 

> @"Aridon.8362" said:

> Toughness itself should be changed so that it works against conditions as well. It's incredibly odd that after six years that the games been out toughness only affects power.

 

That already exists - it's called Vitality.

 

 

[Rod.6581]

> @"MetalGirl.2370" said:

> How hard is it to login for literally 10 seconds in 3 months to get story... :/

>

> As for people never playing a game for 7 years straight, you can speak for yourself because I played GW2 since launch every single day (my only 4 breaks were 7 days long each and that's because I went on a vacation with my boyfriend-other than that, I don't miss a day) and I plan on playing for as long as it lasts

 

And if someone started playing game just now? If you read through comments you will see most of us have problem explaining people we brought to game that they have to pay more after purchasing expansion.

[Tommo Chocolate.5870]

> > @"Aridon.8362" said:

> > The biggest and most absolute reason people aren't coming back, simply put is because there's no reward for new content. If you look at everything that has came out every patch you don't get new armor or weapons, you don't get mount skins like they give you in wow, you just don't get rewarded for saying "I was here for this".

>

> Do you have any proof for that? Anecdotal or otherwise. A link to a discussion where multiple people have said that puts them off, especially that it's a bigger barrier than the cost of buying all the content they missed? I would have thought by now most MMO players know that GW2 was designed to be a 'casual friendly' horizontal progression game which doesn't add new levels or more powerful items on a regular basis (or ever) so the ones who aren't interested in a game that doesn't offer that progression aren't waiting for a reason to come back. If they are then they're wasting their time because it's almost certainly never going to happen.

>

> However, if you mean armour and weapon _skins_ or exotic/ascended equipment rather than more powerful items then you're absolutely wrong that we don't get them. The latest release actually includes a new armour skin with two variations for each armour weight ([Elegy](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elegy_armor_(medium) "Elegy") and [Requiem](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Requiem_armor_(medium) "Requiem") armour), each episode awards an armour piece for completing the meta-event and we often get new weapons too. We've only had one new mount so far, but there are rumours of others coming in future.

 

We've also had at least one legendary weapon added per Living World release for about the past 2 years.

 

[Aridon.8362]

> @"Danikat.8537" said:

> I cut this down to the 'headline' sentences for each section, because it's probably going to be right below the original post so it's easy for people to see the full version and would otherwise be very long.

> > @"Aridon.8362" said:

> > The biggest and most absolute reason people aren't coming back, simply put is because there's no reward for new content. If you look at everything that has came out every patch you don't get new armor or weapons, you don't get mount skins like they give you in wow, you just don't get rewarded for saying "I was here for this".

>

> Do you have any proof for that? Anecdotal or otherwise. A link to a discussion where multiple people have said that puts them off, especially that it's a bigger barrier than the cost of buying all the content they missed? I would have thought by now most MMO players know that GW2 was designed to be a 'casual friendly' horizontal progression game which doesn't add new levels or more powerful items on a regular basis (or ever) so the ones who aren't interested in a game that doesn't offer that progression aren't waiting for a reason to come back. If they are then they're wasting their time because it's almost certainly never going to happen.

>

But that's what makes MMOs like WoW Fun, it gives the player something to do!

 

> However, if you mean armour and weapon _skins_ or exotic/ascended equipment rather than more powerful items then you're absolutely wrong that we don't get them. The latest release actually includes a new armour skin with two variations for each armour weight ([Elegy](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elegy_armor_(medium) "Elegy") and [Requiem](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Requiem_armor_(medium) "Requiem") armour), each episode awards an armour piece for completing the meta-event and we often get new weapons too. We've only had one new mount so far, but there are rumours of others coming in future.

>

We got this like what, the last living story and Path of Fire has been out since September last year? Not only that but they are incredibly hideous despite all the flashy getup. It's more of a disappointment than a luxury.

> > @"Aridon.8362" said:

> And the lack of any sign of progression and moments that a player like Asmongold would stuff zebra cakes on his face for, simply not being there, just adds to that spice that fuels people telling others not to come back.

>

> I'm not sure if this is a typo or a reference to an in-joke I'm not privy to, but if your friend is unhappy with the lack of progression then as I said either they've misunderstood what type of game this is (in which case it's not worth waiting for a reason to come back) or they're missing the stuff which is available, maybe because it's not awarded by direct drops from bosses or other traditional sources.

 

You're a smart man, you know what a typo is or isn't. Asmongold is a staple streamer in the MMO genre, if you look at the excitement that he has when he gets something new in WoW, it's the exact same reaction and satisfaction all players have in the game when they work for something and don't come out wearing the same thing. I understand this is catered to fashion wars, but fashion is the easiest element in the game to work for. What I'm saying is I want to come out of a new raid and come out with something that screams "Wow! I worked really hard for this **AWESOME** new weapon!", or come out of WvW and say "WoW! I got this **AWESOME** new outfit that nobody else can unlock without putting in hard effort!" (don't say ranks are these things because ranks don't actually mean anything since there's a missing badge system, and titles are too long term of a goal), or come out of PvP and be like "WoW! I got this **AWESOME** new mount skin other people can't normally get!". If you've actually played the game, you'd realize that in all those phrases the word **awesome** can easily get replaced with **mediocre** or **ugly**.

 

When you kill Cairn the Indomitable for example, you get some garbage skin like this:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Indomitable_Gladius

 

Whereas in WoW for doing something in the same field you get something like this:

http://images.mmosite.com/photo/2009/01/06/wowa195Mv1fELk55q.jpg

 

Guild Wars 2 New Outfit/Armor:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiF6KDBzsLeAhWEmuAKHTsRC5EQjRx6BAgBEAU&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdulfy.net%2F2017%2F08%2F01%2Fgw2-spearmashal-weapon-skins-and-sunspear-outfit%2F&psig=AOvVaw0d2j4OXA60weO1opGgqwt9&ust=1541691493623252

 

Wow New Outfit/Armor:

https://media.mmo-champion.com/images/news/2017/june/DeathKnightTier21MythicRough.jpg

 

Guild Wars:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_HMS_Divinity

 

Wow:

https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iur/?f=1&image_host=http%3A%2F%2Fwow.zamimg.com%2Fuploads%2Fscreenshots%2Fnormal%2F497903-axe-2h-artifactarathor-d-06.jpg&u=https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screenshots/normal/497903-axe-2h-artifactarathor-d-06.jpg

 

Guild Wars:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elegy_armor_(heavy)

 

wow:

https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iur/?f=1&image_host=http%3A%2F%2Fwow.zamimg.com%2Fuploads%2Fnews%2F11797-warrior-tier-21-and-pvp-armor-juggernaut-battlegear.png&u=https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/news/11797-warrior-tier-21-and-pvp-armor-juggernaut-battlegear.png

 

There is an obvious difference. And don't get me wrong there's things in WoW I absolutely hate, and things other players hate about it too. In fact there's more to hate in WoW than there is in Guild Wars.

[kharmin.7683]

If that's what makes WoW fun, then play WoW. There are plenty of players who enjoy the horizontal progression in GW2, or else the game would have died by now.

[Aridon.8362]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> If that's what makes WoW fun, then play WoW. There are plenty of players who enjoy the horizontal progression in GW2, or else the game would have died by now.

 

I didn't say I don't enjoy Guild Wars or that I'm not having fun with it.

[Dami.5046]

who plays a game for 7 years? *looks at Gw1 and taps in /age and shrugs. *

Not much more to say about this thread other than all games need an income to survive and carry on. If your loyal and log in you get the season for free, or as I have done you need to pay a small charge to unlock the content. Six odd months back I got the whole lot again on another account.

Nothing in gaming is totally free and I doubt A-net will suddenly change that.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @"Aridon.8362" said:

> Asmongold is a staple streamer in the MMO genre, if you look at the excitement that he has when he gets something new in WoW, it's the exact same reaction and satisfaction all players have in the game when they work for something and don't come out wearing the same thing. I understand this is catered to fashion wars, but fashion is the easiest element in the game to work for. What I'm saying is I want to come out of a new raid and come out with something that screams "Wow! I worked really hard for this AWESOME new weapon!", or come out of WvW and say "WoW! I got this AWESOME new outfit that nobody else can unlock without putting in hard effort!" (don't say ranks are these things because ranks don't actually mean anything since there's a missing badge system, and titles are too long term of a goal), or come out of PvP and be like "WoW! I got this AWESOME new mount skin other people can't normally get!". If you've actually played the game, you'd realize that in all those phrases the word awesome can easily get replaced with mediocre or ugly.

>

> When you kill Cairn the Indomitable for example, you get some garbage skin like this:

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Indomitable_Gladius

>

> Whereas in WoW for doing something in the same field you get something like this:

> http://images.mmosite.com/photo/2009/01/06/wowa195Mv1fELk55q.jpg

>

> Guild Wars 2 New Outfit/Armor:

> https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fdulfy.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F08%2Fgw2-sunspear-outft-human-male.jpg&f=1

>

> Wow New Outfit/Armor:

> https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2FUXuqIEkkl8g%2Fmaxresdefault.jpg&f=1

>

> There is an obvious difference.

 

Sure, the skins are different, but whether one is better than the other is a matter of taste. I never once got a drop in WoW that I valued for its looks. Not once. Everything that game gave me looked like dog do _to me_. What I valued drops for was numerical increases, because I bought into the illusion of progression. Oh, look! My numbers got better! Thing is, though, is that the numbers of the stuff I'm fighting also got better, so I never really got anywhere. Illusion. I only actually got more capable versus stuff that was no longer relevant.

 

That's why I now play games that I can enjoy because I like the game-play and that aren't out to gouge me. Sure, that means I no longer have that addictive feeling that MMO's sell -- but that's available here, too, if you want it. It just comes without the illusion of progression.

 

It may seem ironic that I say that GW2 is not out to gouge me, in a thread where the complaint is about having to pay for LW episodes. However, all it takes there is a little perspective. GW2 does not auto-collect money every month, nor does it structure its store in such a way that I have to spend gobs to be able to compete in competitive play. Given the game monetization that's out there, GW2 is pretty consumer friendly.

 

That's not to say that you can't prefer the other model. That's your choice, and your entertainment. That does not mean, though, that your way of looking at games is either correct or universal. It's just your take, that some share and some don't.

 

I'll admit that at this point I'm convinced that MMO's -- including this one -- are about paying to waste time, with the possible side effect of distraction and maybe even entertainment. Having looked at the outside of the Skinner Box that is the WoW-style MMO, I can't look at the inside the same anymore.

[Rasimir.6239]

> @"Pifil.5193" said:

> The real question is, would players who are currently put off returning due to the price of unlocking the episodes that they missed be inclined to spend as much - or more

> money on the game of that charge wasn't there.

You're missing the second question that goes hand in hand with this one:

Would players who currently log in for each living world release (and often get dragged into the game for hours, days, or even weeks and months in the process) bother logging in and playing at all if the lure of unlocking the content for free only during a specific period of time wasn't there?

 

The decision ANet has to make is if they think they gain/retain more active players by enticing them with always-free or temporarily-free content. Right now they have chosen the later. It's a strong hint that they think they retain more active players with the current model than they lose out on new players that are put off by having to pay for previous DLCs.

[ReaverKane.7598]

Honestly, they should have two Deluxe Editions... Verteran's Edition which would give something like character slots, or Shared inventory, or whatever, and Newcomer Edition which would come with the previous LS unlocked (HoT deluxe would unlock LS2, PoF LS3, future expansion LS4 and 5).

 

Honestly, PoF deluxe and Ultimate was garbage, i bought the ultimate, and i definitely regret it. I don't spend much on gems, since i mostly buy functional stuff only like endless tools and slots, and those tend to be a bit on the expensive side as well, so i refrain. But i always have bought Deluxe or Ultimate Editions (always bought Ultimate except for core, because i don't really enjoy physical collectibles, which was the extra content on that edition) as a way to do my part in keeping the game afloat.

 

This time though i really felt a bit defrauded because of the way it was delivered and how mount skins were dealt with. And this, at least for returning players, allowing them to get the LS unlocked for their extra 20 bucks, would have been a much better job than what they did. At least they would be telling players that the LS is important to them, and that they want new and returning players to enjoy that content. Instead they just milk the heck out of it.

 

And honestly. If i hadn't unlocked them through login. I'm not sure some of the episodes are worth their cost.

[Taygus.4571]

> @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> Newcomer Edition which would come with the previous LS unlocked (HoT deluxe would unlock LS2, PoF LS3, future expansion LS4 and 5).

>

 

Newcomer edition sure.. but the previous LS wouldnt work.. because you can't play LS 3, if you only have PoF.

[Blocki.4931]

> @"Rod.6581" said:

> > @"MetalGirl.2370" said:

> > How hard is it to login for literally 10 seconds in 3 months to get story... :/

> >

> > As for people never playing a game for 7 years straight, you can speak for yourself because I played GW2 since launch every single day (my only 4 breaks were 7 days long each and that's because I went on a vacation with my boyfriend-other than that, I don't miss a day) and I plan on playing for as long as it lasts

>

> And if someone started playing game just now? If you read through comments you will see most of us have problem explaining people we brought to game that they have to pay more after purchasing expansion.

 

They have 1 to 80 and 2 expansions worth of content to go through before they have to worry about any of that. You don't need Season 2 to understand Heart of Thorns, granted it's a bit jarring to have all these characters you don't know but it's not connected in any way beyond that really. Then, if they liked it, they can still decide if they want to go through Season 3 before playing through Path of Fire. After that, a few weeks, if not months, have passed and they will have at least 1 recent LS release from when they started playing and potentially another one.

 

They can always play the most recent and most relevant content right away, for free, just by logging in. Yes, there are some gaps because of what came before it, but until they have to actually worry about that they should be more than able to purchase the episodes through ingame means.

[Rod.6581]

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > @"Rod.6581" said:

> > > @"MetalGirl.2370" said:

> > > How hard is it to login for literally 10 seconds in 3 months to get story... :/

> > >

> > > As for people never playing a game for 7 years straight, you can speak for yourself because I played GW2 since launch every single day (my only 4 breaks were 7 days long each and that's because I went on a vacation with my boyfriend-other than that, I don't miss a day) and I plan on playing for as long as it lasts

> >

> > And if someone started playing game just now? If you read through comments you will see most of us have problem explaining people we brought to game that they have to pay more after purchasing expansion.

>

> They have 1 to 80 and 2 expansions worth of content to go through before they have to worry about any of that. You don't need Season 2 to understand Heart of Thorns, granted it's a bit jarring to have all these characters you don't know but it's not connected in any way beyond that really. Then, if they liked it, they can still decide if they want to go through Season 3 before playing through Path of Fire. After that, a few weeks, if not months, have passed and they will have at least 1 recent LS release from when they started playing and potentially another one.

>

> They can always play the most recent and most relevant content right away, for free, just by logging in. Yes, there are some gaps because of what came before it, but until they have to actually worry about that they should be more than able to purchase the episodes through ingame means.

 

It all sounds nice when you put it that way. But...

 

Ironic, isn't it?

 

 

That intro is how they feel towards GW2 now...

[Airdive.2613]

Gold to gem conversion is the ultimate solution.

[sorudo.9054]

the only part i don't agree with the current deal is that you need to buy the expansion AND the LS separated, they would motivate ppl more if the LS was added as a bonus for buying the expansion.

[particlepinata.9865]

Personally i already have all the ls episodes unlocked. I do think its time that LS2 is unlocked for free for players who buy Hot or Pof. Its 5 years old now, isnt tied to expac masteries, uses somewhat older design, i think its time to give it as a bonus, which is a nice selling point for new players, right?

[Durzlla.6295]

I think it’d be cool if you could get them at a huge discount when buying the xpacs, but I mean, each LS season is only like $10, for a lot of content, and that’s assuming you’re late to the party too, otherwise it’s free if you bother to log onto a character during the several months the episode is active.

 

There’s also the whole you can buy them for gems so if you REALLY needed to save money you could farm gold for them, but I’m pretty sure that’s a large sum of gold and probably not realistic.

 

Pretty sure the main reason new players have to pay for them is due to how much you get from them, you get multiple maps, story instances, achievements, etc. in some cases stat and armor/weapon skins. And if you were active it was free. Also Anet is probably more willing to give them for free to current players both as a means to reward them for continuing to play, and also because current players spend money on gems and cosmetics.

[Khisanth.2948]

> @"Durzlla.6295" said:

> I think it’d be cool if you could get them at a huge discount when buying the xpacs, but I mean, each LS season is only like $10, for a lot of content, and that’s assuming you’re late to the party too, otherwise it’s free if you bother to log onto a character during the several months the episode is active.

>

> There’s also the whole you can buy them for gems so if you REALLY needed to save money you could farm gold for them, but I’m pretty sure that’s a large sum of gold and probably not realistic.

>

> Pretty sure the main reason new players have to pay for them is due to how much you get from them, you get multiple maps, story instances, achievements, etc. in some cases stat and armor/weapon skins. And if you were active it was free. Also Anet is probably more willing to give them for free to current players both as a means to reward them for continuing to play, and also because current players spend money on gems and cosmetics.

 

Depends on the season. It is $2.5/ep so $20 for LS2 and $15 for LS3 for regular price. They do go on sale or maybe it's just a bundle discount. There is a 20% off for LS2 right now so it is $16 instead of $20.

 

[mindcircus.1506]

> @"Archlvt.2036" said:

> I find it a curious design choice to lock the living story unless you've logged in during that period. The content was designed to be free, yet we are charging new and returning players a fee for coming to GW2. I get that they want to reward loyal players, but nobody plays a game for 7 years straight, nobody.

>

> So I have to wonder, how many more people would have returned to the game had we not hired bouncers (in the form of paying to come back) to keep players out?

 

Most MMO players know one simple fact about gw2:

It's business model is easily the most value for the money in the genre.

 

Anyone who is turned off by the relatively low price of the content drops and considers this a "barrier for entry" is likely not the kind of customer Arenanet chooses to chase.

[vesica tempestas.1563]

> @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > @"Archlvt.2036" said:

> > I find it a curious design choice to lock the living story unless you've logged in during that period. The content was designed to be free, yet we are charging new and returning players a fee for coming to GW2. I get that they want to reward loyal players, but nobody plays a game for 7 years straight, nobody.

> >

> > So I have to wonder, how many more people would have returned to the game had we not hired bouncers (in the form of paying to come back) to keep players out?

>

> Most MMO players know one simple fact about gw2:

> It's business model is easily the most value for the money in the genre.

>

> Anyone who is turned off by the relatively low price of the content drops and considers this a "barrier for entry" is likely not the kind of customer Arenanet chooses to chase.

 

Ye +1. Its funny how people just cannot seem to be able to apply any form of critical thinking. Yes the game is free, your not paying a sub and you get all future content for free. Do You want to pay a typical sub of $150 a year forever or do you want to get everything for free from now and forever and pay a fraction of a yearly sub to get access to the older optiojnal content if you want it? (or even convert gold to gems and get that free as well)

 

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Pifil.5193" said:

> They already give it away for free to the active players, do you really think they make all that much from people who miss the free unlock but later on return and buy the episodes?

It's the opposite. They make enough from active players (via gemshop) that they can afford giving them LS for free. They do not make anything from non-active players, and thus they cannot afford to give them a 100% discount.

 

Notice, by the way, that they do make something from active players, even if those players do not use gemshop. That something is population levels that make the paying players do not think the game is dying.

 

In the marketing model, the minnows (the non-paying players) are as important as whales, because they are what keeps whales in the game.

 

 

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"Taygus.4571" said:

> > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > Newcomer Edition which would come with the previous LS unlocked (HoT deluxe would unlock LS2, PoF LS3, future expansion LS4 and 5).

> >

>

> Newcomer edition sure.. but the previous LS wouldnt work.. because you can't play LS 3, if you only have PoF.

 

Well pointed, then maybe the opposite, i guess.. With buying Hot unlocking season 2 and 3, and buying PoF season 4 and 5. Also, in the future they could sell a "Season pass" that would unlock all the future Living world seasons for that expansion, and include that with the Digital deluxe and above, i guess.

 

Or, they could start cutting down on some of those requirements, i guess... Although, not exactly for Living world seasons, but for example, for Guild Hall stuff.

Also for example those that bought HoT and PoF, could (or rather should) have been granted LS3 right off the bat.