melkor.3018 Posted December 4, 2018 Author Share Posted December 4, 2018 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"melkor.3018" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > Given that the ascended and infusion system has seen multiple changes (and pretty much all simplification) over the years, the feeling you are looking for was lost along the way. > > > > > > There used to be 3 different socket types in ascended gear, offensive, defensive and omni. You would then have to match desired stats to the sockets since not everything would fit every where. It also made sense to have multiple similar stat rings. Red Ring of Death and Crystalline Band which are now basically identical, had different infusion slots. > > > > > > Simply put: this is not going to get changed and that's a good thing. The more convoluted systems were a huge pain to deal with. The system in place now is still quite difficult to understand for new players even after multiple streamlining patches. > > > > Dude i'm a new player, iv'e been in this game for about 1 1/2 weeks, it's not hard, i'm fine with just a socket no need to make tiers of it, like defensive etc, just a socket. > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infusion > > Rings go up to 3 infusion slots, most other items have 1, backpacks up to 2. Socket away. > > If you want actually more stats than 5 per slot, not going to happen due to insane power creep that would entail. Are you purposefully missing the point? Because it sure seems to be that way, when i said socket i meant upgrade slot, i thought it was pretty obvious just by reading my former post. What you said i already know by the way. I already knew you could add an infusion slot to rings. Your point about power creep could be somewhat true though, although i don't think it will be as bad as you probably think, and there are ways to tackle power creep anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 > @"melkor.3018" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"melkor.3018" said: > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > Given that the ascended and infusion system has seen multiple changes (and pretty much all simplification) over the years, the feeling you are looking for was lost along the way. > > > > > > > > There used to be 3 different socket types in ascended gear, offensive, defensive and omni. You would then have to match desired stats to the sockets since not everything would fit every where. It also made sense to have multiple similar stat rings. Red Ring of Death and Crystalline Band which are now basically identical, had different infusion slots. > > > > > > > > Simply put: this is not going to get changed and that's a good thing. The more convoluted systems were a huge pain to deal with. The system in place now is still quite difficult to understand for new players even after multiple streamlining patches. > > > > > > Dude i'm a new player, iv'e been in this game for about 1 1/2 weeks, it's not hard, i'm fine with just a socket no need to make tiers of it, like defensive etc, just a socket. > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infusion > > > > Rings go up to 3 infusion slots, most other items have 1, backpacks up to 2. Socket away. > > > > If you want actually more stats than 5 per slot, not going to happen due to insane power creep that would entail. > > Are you purposefully missing the point? Because it sure seems to be that way. > > What you said i already know by the way. I already knew you could add an infusion slot to rings. > > Your point about power creep could be somewhat true though, although i don't think it will be as bad as you probably think, and there are ways to tackle power creep anyway. I am not missing the point at all. I am telling you that there are very high hurdles to overcome for this kind of change, and it will NOT happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justine.6351 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > @"Justine.6351" said: > > Yeah I don't think people reading the op appreciated what he was trying to convey. > > > > If I had to guess, they were crunched for time and the easiest place to save a lot of time was not incorporating 500 Jewel crafting under the guise that getting the trinkets was exclusive to fractals/guild missions/laurels. > It's not that it was exclusive to fractals/guild missions/laurels. It's that the level 500 crafting was introduced only after those 3 options already existed for some time, and they were unable to think of a way to introduce lev 500 jeweller without it being completely obsolete. I said under the guise of, the part you clipped out addressed the fact it was obsolete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 Perhaps, the Devs, who have been working on the game for the past 11, or so, years have a better understanding of what would be best for the game and the playerbase, than those players with a shorter amount of experience; albeit suggestions are always welcome. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khisanth.2948 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 > @"melkor.3018" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"melkor.3018" said: > > > And that's it, i think it's ridiculous that when you get the best gear, it leaves something to be desired in terms of stats. > > > > Here is where you have a problem. Ascended gear IS the best gear and it does have the best stats, EVEN if it doesn't have this gem slot you desire. > > > > If I may, it seems to me it's not really the stats you desire, but the ability to get more customization in ascended trinkets ... THAT is something I can stand behind as a justification to change it but the desire in terms of stats just doesn't make sense. > > > > > > You made the assumption that i think i don;t know that ascended gear is the best, it is, this i has more to do with the fact that i personally wanna have on my best gear all of the sockets that you can have on exotic, because better gear should have more than the lesser tier, both in terms of stats and how you can modify them. If that were true ascended gear would need at least 6 upgrade slots. > @"melkor.3018" said: > So, i will start by saying that i'm very new, but i noticed something that doesn;t sit quire right with me, and the problem is ascended rings, necks and trinkets, how come that these three have an upgrade slot, where you can socket a gem, on exotic gear, which is supposed to be worse but ascended doesn't have it? > > This creates two problems, first, it leaves something to be desired, since better gear should have all that the previous tier had and something more, this is pretty logical, and i can safely assume that every rpg game does it because this is just how upgrading works, so in my opinion no socket on the best gear makes no sense, because the best gear should have everything, socket, better stats and infusion slot. > > Second, it makes jewelcrafting close to irrelevant. > > And that's it, i think it's ridiculous that when you get the best gear, it leaves something to be desired in terms of stats. Maybe broaden your horizons a bit a try more types of games? ... or not I guess there is nothing wrong with sticking with what you like just make sure to do some research first to make sure it is more of the same There are many games and many different types of system. For example in some games it is impossible to reach 100% critical strike chance. In GW2 this is trivial. Then there is Path of Exile which can really mess with the definition of best. The "best" item could be one that damages you every time you attacked but there is also a skill where you set yourself on fire and run around the enemy ... There is no reason why every game must function the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melkor.3018 Posted December 4, 2018 Author Share Posted December 4, 2018 > @"Khisanth.2948" said: > > @"melkor.3018" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"melkor.3018" said: > > > > And that's it, i think it's ridiculous that when you get the best gear, it leaves something to be desired in terms of stats. > > > > > > Here is where you have a problem. Ascended gear IS the best gear and it does have the best stats, EVEN if it doesn't have this gem slot you desire. > > > > > > If I may, it seems to me it's not really the stats you desire, but the ability to get more customization in ascended trinkets ... THAT is something I can stand behind as a justification to change it but the desire in terms of stats just doesn't make sense. > > > > > > > > > > You made the assumption that i think i don;t know that ascended gear is the best, it is, this i has more to do with the fact that i personally wanna have on my best gear all of the sockets that you can have on exotic, because better gear should have more than the lesser tier, both in terms of stats and how you can modify them. > > If that were true ascended gear would need at least 6 upgrade slots. > > > @"melkor.3018" said: > > So, i will start by saying that i'm very new, but i noticed something that doesn;t sit quire right with me, and the problem is ascended rings, necks and trinkets, how come that these three have an upgrade slot, where you can socket a gem, on exotic gear, which is supposed to be worse but ascended doesn't have it? > > > > This creates two problems, first, it leaves something to be desired, since better gear should have all that the previous tier had and something more, this is pretty logical, and i can safely assume that every rpg game does it because this is just how upgrading works, so in my opinion no socket on the best gear makes no sense, because the best gear should have everything, socket, better stats and infusion slot. > > > > Second, it makes jewelcrafting close to irrelevant. > > > > And that's it, i think it's ridiculous that when you get the best gear, it leaves something to be desired in terms of stats. > > Maybe broaden your horizons a bit a try more types of games? ... or not I guess there is nothing wrong with sticking with what you like just make sure to do some research first to make sure it is more of the same > > There are many games and many different types of system. For example in some games it is impossible to reach 100% critical strike chance. In GW2 this is trivial. > Then there is Path of Exile which can really mess with the definition of best. The "best" item could be one that damages you every time you attacked but there is also a skill where you set yourself on fire and run around the enemy ... > > There is no reason why every game must function the same. Just being different for the sake of being different is no good, there is no point to this. Gw2 is a good game, but there are a few things i don;t like, and i will point them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanWilder.6923 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 > @"melkor.3018" said: > So, i will start by saying that i'm very new, but i noticed something that doesn;t sit quire right with me, and the problem is ascended rings, necks and trinkets, how come that these three have an upgrade slot, where you can socket a gem, on exotic gear, which is supposed to be worse but ascended doesn't have it? > > This creates two problems, first, it leaves something to be desired, since better gear should have all that the previous tier had and something more, this is pretty logical, and i can safely assume that every rpg game does it because this is just how upgrading works, so in my opinion no socket on the best gear makes no sense, because the best gear should have everything, socket, better stats and infusion slot. > > Second, it makes jewelcrafting close to irrelevant. > > And that's it, i think it's ridiculous that when you get the best gear, it leaves something to be desired in terms of stats. I understand your points and I think it should be, Windows 10 can read and run programs built for Windows XP but not vice versa. That logic always can be implied in this game too, Ascended is windows 10 where Exotic is windows XP. Jewelcrafting, I dont know what is this discipline useful for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phs.6089 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 Do check stats on exotic trinkets with no upgrades and ascended. When we say ascended is better then exotic(for trinkets) by 5% it includes upgrades(that are almost half of the stats) as well. Ascended was introduced latter then exotic and devs made things simpler. But yeah jewelcraft is pointless outside couple of collections and parts for legendary crafting. There are enough things to desire for ascended gear if you looking for counsels hours to perfect your build. e.g.https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mighty_9_Agony_Infusion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leablo.2651 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 To answer your question, it's a product of the haphazard way in which ascended gear was introduced. Trinkets came out first, a few months after launch, without a roadmap for introducing any other ascended gear, or plans to increase any crafting to 500. Armor and weapons eventually came later, and by then Anet's plans and priorities for ascended gear had changed. But they probably did not want to revise the old trinket system either, because it would upset people one way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 > @"Justine.6351" said: > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > @"Justine.6351" said: > > > Yeah I don't think people reading the op appreciated what he was trying to convey. > > > > > > If I had to guess, they were crunched for time and the easiest place to save a lot of time was not incorporating 500 Jewel crafting under the guise that getting the trinkets was exclusive to fractals/guild missions/laurels. > > It's not that it was exclusive to fractals/guild missions/laurels. It's that the level 500 crafting was introduced only after those 3 options already existed for some time, and they were unable to think of a way to introduce lev 500 jeweller without it being completely obsolete. > > I said under the guise of, the part you clipped out addressed the fact it was obsolete. It still wasn't "under the guise" as you said. They didn't implement level 500 jewelcrafting because they had no idea how to do it so it would be relevant - and they've never really tried to hide that point from us. Exclusivity had nothing to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucianDK.8615 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 Jewelcrafting have been a laugh since easilly buyable ascended trinkets. Just doesnt have a place anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pifil.5193 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 > @"melkor.3018" said: > So, i will start by saying that i'm very new, but i noticed something that doesn;t sit quire right with me, and the problem is ascended rings, necks and trinkets, how come that these three have an upgrade slot, where you can socket a gem, on exotic gear, which is supposed to be worse but ascended doesn't have it? > > This creates two problems, first, it leaves something to be desired, since better gear should have all that the previous tier had and something more, this is pretty logical, and i can safely assume that every rpg game does it because this is just how upgrading works, so in my opinion no socket on the best gear makes no sense, because the best gear should have everything, socket, better stats and infusion slot. > > Second, it makes jewelcrafting close to irrelevant. > > And that's it, i think it's ridiculous that when you get the best gear, it leaves something to be desired in terms of stats. Be careful what you wish for, adding an ascended gem slot to trinkets would just add to the costs of trinkets. You can be sure that ascended gems won't be cheap. Most people will just slot a berserker gem into a berserker trinket anyway and if they want to mix a bit of vitality into their build then it's a simple matter to swap in some valkyrie trinkets. I don't think the lack of a gem slot is an actual problem. Ascended trinkets made jewelcrafting irrelevant not because there are no ascended jewels but because ArenaNet didn't give us a way to craft ascended trinkets on order to make them a type of reward in Fractals. They subsequently gave them away quite cheaply to other PvE and WvW players for laurels and during the living world releases. Now jewelcrafting is largely useless but that's not actually a problem as such. That's just how it is. I sure don't want them to redo ascended trinkets into a materials sink just to fix something that isn't broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algreg.3629 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 > @"melkor.3018" said: > > @"Algreg.3629" said: > > your gear is already upgraded, and if you´d throw non-matching extra stats on it instead of the base item ones, you´d probably make a suboptimal build anyway. > > > > The jeweler thing is a completely different topic. > > That is part of the fun, figuring out what is the best. been done over and over again, you're welcome. Also, there is math. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 > @"Pifil.5193" said: > I sure don't want them to redo ascended trinkets into a materials sink just to fix something that isn't broken. To be fair, the OP's title and opening post muddled the idea somewhat. The idea is that they'd like to _feel_ more in control of the flavor of their build, even if the net result is zero difference in stats. Me? I prefer the simplicity of not having to organize yet another element of the build. When I first started the game, it was kind of fun to figure out what worked out best for me. Now? I've done that enough times, I prefer the process to be simpler, not more nuanced. So even if there were zero consequences to doing this, except to make the OP and 10-20% of the community happier, I'd be against it as a "fun versus convenience" preference. Except it turns out that there are lots of consequences, most of them bad. Economic changes could be good or bad depending (new sink for silver? good; new cost for formerly cheap stuff? bad). There'd also have to be changes to the UI and a resetting of stats, to avoid power creep. There would be a ton of work for ANet, in adjust vendors, descriptions, translations, etc. Everyone, literally everyone would have to change their build _or_ ANet would have to pre-slot every ascended trinket with a jewel, which comes with its own set of headaches, including figuring out the impact to the new economy. **** As I've posted in other threads, whenever considering a major change to UI or gear, I like to imagine: what would we be thinking if the OP's idea had been the status quo in the first place. Would we be arguing to remove ascended jewels? Would people criticize a change as "fixing something that isn't broken"? In this case, my guess is that people would probably largely prefer a simpler system and would be against changing it: as the OP says, there's more flavor to choosing a jewel like we do for exotic. Plus, it would be just as convoluted to remove it as it looks now to add it to the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 I wouldnt mind the ability to upgrade ascended trinkets in a manner similar to exotics. The ability to mix and match stat combos on individual pieces might be nice. I would not want this to result in higher stat totals however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eloc Freidon.5692 Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 Is it because you want to put doubloons into them or have even higher stats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perilisk.1874 Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 I really wish they had taken the opportunity with the rune/sigil rework to give jewelcrafting at least a little relevance by moving those recipes there. Missed opportunity, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashantara.8731 Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 > @"melkor.3018" said: > There are exotic items with infuse slot, i have one myself, a ring ...which, unlike an ascended ring, you can't enhance by adding two more slots to it. Please educate yourself (see Wiki) before complaining about something that is perfectly fine the way it is. The only thing you are right about is that Jeweler lacks the ability to craft ascended trinkets, which truly is a shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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