So what Mythology are you?

[Temujin.7356]

Way back in GW1 there was a conversation with Gaile Gray about what we as players want to see ingame. The subject of cultural gods and mythologies came about and everyone (who were there) agreed they wanted Norse Gods and Vikings. The conversation soon included Messo-American Myan/Inca myth and coincidentally soon after we got Eye of the North. Mythology then became (or perhaps was always) a huge part of the Guild Wars series as we clearly see the influence of Celtic/Welsh/Irish lore in Heart of Thorns as well as African/Egyptian myths in Path of Fire.

 

What we still haven't seen that we as gamers may like are:

 

Greek myths (if you could find an instance of any please tell me)

Assyrian/Babylonian myths (Tiamat may be the Deep Sea Elder Dragon absorbing the powers of four others though the reference of Baltahzar hating Dragons IS like Madruk and Tiamat)

Hindu/India myth (Indra/Ganesh/Bramah)

Japanese/Chinese Folklore (Fujin/Raijin/Guan Yu)

Slavic/Russian Folklore (Perkunas/Ilya Muromet)

Maori/Polynesian/Hawaiian myths (Tamatuenga/Tawhirimatea)

 

So my question is what pantheon do YOU want to see?

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"Temujin.7356" said:

> [...] as we clearly see the **influence of Celtic/Welsh/Irish lore in Heart of Thorns** as well as African/Egyptian myths in Path of Fire.

 

Excuse me? :o Where on earth do you see _that_ in HoT? We have Norse mythology present in the Norn society, we have nature as a deity found in Kodan society, but nowhere do we have Celtic lore (unless I am forgetting about something important here).

 

> What we still haven't seen that we as gamers may like are:

>

> Greek myths (if you could find an instance of any please tell me)

> Assyrian/Babylonian myths (Tiamat may be the Deep Sea Elder Dragon absorbing the powers of four others though the reference of Baltahzar hating Dragons IS like Madruk and Tiamat)

> Hindu/India myth (Indra/Ganesh/Bramah)

> Japanese/Chinese Folklore (Fujin/Raijin/Guan Yu)

> Slavic/Russian Folklore (Perkunas/Ilya Muromet)

> Maori/Polynesian/Hawaiian myths (Tamatuenga/Tawhirimatea)

>

> So my question is what pantheon do YOU want to see?

 

I don't care as long as it is implemented properly and doesn't just serve as pseudo-content (like Norse-touched mythology, which seems so promissing but isn't really played out in depth anywhere in the game - it currently only serves as a nice flavor to new players who are playing through the personal Norn story, but nothing of substance).

[Donari.5237]

I'm not so sure it's focal in HoT exactly, but Sylvari are definitely Celtic/Gaelic/Arthurian.

 

What would I like to see -- hmm. Hindu/India definitely appeals, and the Pacific islands ones would do great if/when we meet Selbbub. I'm less keen on the Slavic and East Asian ones, mostly because those are already so mainstream in modern fantasy that I'm a bit tired of them and not looking forward to players either screeching about it being done wrong or players going overboard with the whole thing. After all, these myths would only be inspiration for the Tyrian versions, not imported wholesale from Terra.

 

You mention Greek myths, OP, and don't the Six sortakinda fulfill that, along with Roman, thanks to being a pantheon of flawed personality deities with their own infighting?

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"Donari.5237" said:

> I'm not so sure it's focal in HoT exactly, but Sylvari are definitely Celtic/Gaelic/Arthurian.

 

Excuse me? How so? They neither have similar beliefs nor style of clothing or housing. Jungle <> Celtic/Gealic regions & cultures.

[Danikat.8537]

Personally I'm more interested in what they do with it than where they draw inspiration from. I wouldn't want them to force any particular mythology into the game just because it's popular or they think it's interesting, if it doesn't fit then it would be a bad choice no matter what it is. Also I don't think I have a favourite mythology really, I find all the ones I've read or heard about interesting.

 

Having said that though I'd love it if once we're finished with Kralk and Elona we get to go somewhere totally new - a part of Tyria which we've never seen before, maybe the lands east of Ascalon and Elona. And IMO that would suit introducing new races and lore and therefore new real-world inspirations not seen before.

[RoseofGilead.8907]

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > @"Donari.5237" said:

> > I'm not so sure it's focal in HoT exactly, but Sylvari are definitely Celtic/Gaelic/Arthurian.

>

> Excuse me? How so? They neither have similar beliefs nor style of clothing or housing. Jungle <> Celtic/Gealic regions & cultures.

 

The names, at the very least, are heavily influenced by the languages of the British Isles.

[Temujin.7356]

Excuse me? :o Where on earth do you see that in HoT? We have Norse mythology present in the Norn society, we have nature as a deity found in Kodan society, but nowhere do we have Celtic lore (unless I am forgetting about something important here).

 

I'm glad you asked. Celtic lore had Druids which was referenced in GW1 AND were found in the Maguuma Jungle where Modremoth lairs. Dagda/Lugh is referenced loosely as Ventari, father to the sylvari which when Ree Sobsee and the old crew created it were supposed to be called SIDHE but changed it because they wanted something new. And obviously the Tuth Na Denanan (people of the mound) is literally the Modrem and if you ever been to Dragon's Stand you would see them vitrually spring up from the ground or creep back into it. I linked Celtic to Welsh and Irish because they are very similar. Again, this is loosely based as I'm sure GW2 wants a fresh look at it.

 

And by the way, the goal was to ask what type of deities you would like to have in the game and how much influence it should have. Let's keep a level head. If you have any ideas also I'd like to hear them. Play on peeps!

[Donari.5237]

To add to it, just look at the Sylvari opening stories. The Green Knight, the Pale Stag. Pure Arthurian, I could have used it for my Arthurian Myth term paper back in college if that wasn't in the 1980's before MMOs were even dreamed of ... (as it is I used Matt Wagner's comic Mage: The Hero Discovered and got a very good grade). Plus I think it was Ree Soesbee who in a long lore dump on the Sylvari said they were heavily influenced by that mythology. The Wild Hunt is a sylvari's grail quest in a way.

 

As I said above ANet doesn't wholesale rip off the mythology and shove it into Tyria, they use it for inspiration. So there's never going to be a 100% correspondence. If they make their "elves" the new young questing race, and their humans the fading race in decline, they can certainly inject Celtic elements into tree dwellers.

[Ithilwen.1529]

As my account name implies, I'm partial to Tolkien and his version of English/Finnish Mythology. I like the African/Moslem elements in Elona too. They add rich flavor.

[Zeefa.3915]

Well... it is entirely possible there is elements of myth that many just don't recognise as such. Don't think lore/myth 1 to 1. Think names and creatures.

Centaurs, griffons, minotaurs and more originate in greek myth.

Tengu originate in Japanese folklore.

There is probably many more that I just can't think of right now... or just don't know about the origin.

Sometimes it is just names, sometimes it is mixed with other myths and stuff.

Probably quite a lot of stuff in the game that draws inspiration from myths and folklore from around the world, but just isn't clearcut in a way that we can easily recognise it.

[Tommo Chocolate.5870]

> @"Temujin.7356" said:

> Greek myths (if you could find an instance of any please tell me)

 

I've always assumed that Ventari is based on [Chiron](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiron "Chiron").

 

> @"Zeefa.3915" said:

> Well... it is entirely possible there is elements of myth that many just don't recognise as such. Don't think lore/myth 1 to 1. Think names and creatures.

> Centaurs, griffons, minotaurs and more originate in greek myth.

> Tengu originate in Japanese folklore.

> There is probably many more that I just can't think of right now... or just don't know about the origin.

> Sometimes it is just names, sometimes it is mixed with other myths and stuff.

> Probably quite a lot of stuff in the game that draws inspiration from myths and folklore from around the world, but just isn't clearcut in a way that we can easily recognise it.

 

We also have hydras and harpies from Greek mythology, jotun from Norse mythology, djinn from Arabic mythology, ettins from British folklore, ogres from French/British (?) folklore and golems from Jewish mythology - but of course many of these are so standard in fantasy that it seems like a stretch to say that they ANet drew their inspiration for them from mythology and folklore.

[AsPeeXXXVIII.9571]

I'd definitely be down for more stuff inspired by Japanese folklore - not necessarily in GW2, but in video games in general.

[Liewec.2896]

if i say japanese mythology, do we get Cantha? XD

[Warobaz.9543]

It's time to switch part of this thread to "BRING BACK CANTHA PLZZZZZ" :lol:

Cantha had a huge asian inspiration, mythology wise too.

I suppose we could even add a little bit of Germanic Mythology with the Kurzicks, and that touch of Polynesian vibe with the Luxons.

[Cragga the Eighty Third.60]

I would rather see interesting original content than thinly disguised reruns of real-world mythology. If the Anet team isn't able to come up with good ideas on their own, they should temporarily hire a top-notch fantasy writer just for world-building, and then let their regular writers play in the newly-created sandbox.

 

Would personally prefer avoidance of gods, demons, ancient evils who awake when their alarm clock goes off every 500 years, and other overused tropes.

[Trise.2865]

> @"Cragga the Eighty Third.6015" said:

> I would rather see interesting original content than thinly disguised reruns of real-world mythology. If the Anet team isn't able to come up with good ideas on their own, they should temporarily hire a top-notch fantasy writer just for world-building, and then let their regular writers play in the newly-created sandbox.

>

> Would personally prefer avoidance of gods, demons, ancient evils who awake when their alarm clock goes off every 500 years, and other overused tropes.

 

1. Everything comes from somewhere. There never was such thing as "originality", only "creative adaptation".

2. Look up Jeff Grubb. Among other things, he is the Loremaster and Story Team Lead at ArenaNet.

3. Name something besides looming, unknowable evils that are: a) threatening and immediate enough to create a sense of urgency/motivation, b) far off or subtle enough to be ignored for side quests, c) can be solved by either martial/magical combat or jumping/interaction puzzles, and d) logically requires hundreds to thousands of people of different races and lands working together in said fashion. Take your time, that's a tough one.

[sorudo.9054]

the nordic part is poorly done tho, they mixed nordic with 95% native american......

i expected something more like the old vikings, using the small army but good teamwork instead of the whole boasting like the brits actually did as if they did it all by them self. (Anet really need to learn some nordic culture)

making them look nordic doesn't make the that way.

[Purgatori.3645]

> @"Warobaz.9543" said:

> It's time to switch part of this thread to "BRING BACK CANTHA PLZZZZZ" :lol:

> Cantha had a huge asian inspiration, mythology wise too.

> I suppose we could even add a little bit of Germanic Mythology with the Kurzicks, and that touch of Polynesian vibe with the Luxons.

 

Im with Danikat.8537 ... Let so somewhere totally new and see a part of Tyria never before adventured by the "commander" past or present :)

[DeanBB.4268]

I can always go for a big dose of Star Wars mythology. :)

[Khaeon.1623]

> @"DeanBB.4268" said:

> I can always go for a big dose of Star Wars mythology. :)

 

God they need to make another Star wars MMO

[Cragga the Eighty Third.60]

> @"Trise.2865" said:

> > @"Cragga the Eighty Third.6015" said:

> > I would rather see interesting original content than thinly disguised reruns of real-world mythology. If the Anet team isn't able to come up with good ideas on their own, they should temporarily hire a top-notch fantasy writer just for world-building, and then let their regular writers play in the newly-created sandbox.

> >

> > Would personally prefer avoidance of gods, demons, ancient evils who awake when their alarm clock goes off every 500 years, and other overused tropes.

>

> 1. Everything comes from somewhere. There never was such thing as "originality", only "creative adaptation".

 

That's just an excuse for creative laziness. Fortunately for the creatively lazy, the world is full of mentally lazy people who would rather pay to see the six billionth remake of Robin Hood at the movie theater than cope with new stories with new characters whose names they don't know, possibly played by (god forbid) actors they haven't heard of.

 

[Yannir.4132]

> @"Cragga the Eighty Third.6015" said:

> > @"Trise.2865" said:

> > > @"Cragga the Eighty Third.6015" said:

> > > I would rather see interesting original content than thinly disguised reruns of real-world mythology. If the Anet team isn't able to come up with good ideas on their own, they should temporarily hire a top-notch fantasy writer just for world-building, and then let their regular writers play in the newly-created sandbox.

> > >

> > > Would personally prefer avoidance of gods, demons, ancient evils who awake when their alarm clock goes off every 500 years, and other overused tropes.

> >

> > 1. Everything comes from somewhere. There never was such thing as "originality", only "creative adaptation".

>

> That's just an excuse for creative laziness. Fortunately for the creatively lazy, the world is full of mentally lazy people who would rather pay to see the six billionth remake of Robin Hood at the movie theater than cope with new stories with new characters whose names they don't know, possibly played by (god forbid) actors they haven't heard of.

>

 

Yeah, imagine how much more interesting that movie would be if it was a comedy starring Not Adam Sandler where Robin Hood meets King Arthur.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

more malazan inspired things. you know who you are devs. MOAR.

[Dedicant.6820]

> @"RoseofGilead.8907" said:

> The names, at the very least, are heavily influenced by the languages of the British Isles.

 

As an Irish person I can confirm that some Sylvari names are Celtic such as Aife and Niamh... the pronunciation of said names are atrocious however lol. They pronounce them phonetically rather than using the actual Irish name. So Niamh which is pronounced like Neev becomes Ni-yam. I cringe hard anytime I hear them since I personally know many people with those names.

 

As for the Arthurian influences I believe Caladbolg is pretty obviously inspired by Excalibur which is also known as Caledfwlch in Welsh, pretty similar name to the Sylvari sword. One of the firstborn is also called Dagonet who was a knight of the round table. And like Donari said the theme of the Sylvari personal/racial story is heavily Arthurian in nature (excuse the pun).

 

 

> @"Cragga the Eighty Third.6015" said:

> That's just an excuse for creative laziness.

 

I think you've fundamentally misunderstood the difference between taking inspiration from culture and plagiarism/laziness. Tolkien was heavily inspired by many mythologies especially so when it came to Norse and Christian stories/themes but I would hardly call the Silmarillion or Lord of the Rings creatively lazy in fact the complete opposite. It's almost impossible to create a completely unique idea after thousands of years of story telling but what makes a great one in my opinion is being able to take inspiration from other stories while making your own distinct world. It's not copying or taking a shortcut it's about paying homage to older works you enjoy or being inspired by it etc etc. I'm not saying GW2's story is a masterpiece but it's totally unfair to call it lazy for taking inspiration from mythology.

 

[Cragga the Eighty Third.60]

> @"Dedicant.6820" said:

> > @"Cragga the Eighty Third.6015" said:

> > That's just an excuse for creative laziness.

>

> I think you've fundamentally misunderstood the difference between taking inspiration from culture and plagiarism/laziness. Tolkien was heavily inspired by many mythologies especially so when it came to Norse and Christian stories/themes but I would hardly call the Silmarillion or Lord of the Rings creatively lazy in fact the complete opposite. It's almost impossible to create a completely unique idea after thousands of years of story telling but what makes a great one in my opinion is being able to take inspiration from other stories while making your own distinct world. It's not copying or taking a shortcut it's about paying homage to older works you enjoy or being inspired by it etc etc. I'm not saying GW2's story is a masterpiece but it's totally unfair to call it lazy for taking inspiration from mythology.

>

 

I didn't say nothing should be influenced by, inspired by, or even derived from other sources. I object to the claim that 'nothing is new' being used as an excuse for not attempting to do something original, and for constantly retreading the same well-worn ground with minimal effort. Direct quote from the game: Innovation beats imitation every time.