djoun.3425 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 > @"apharma.3741" said: > > @"djoun.3425" said: > > Actually insane how spoiled mesmers are. Has the most broken skill in the game reduced from mandatory and they cry. And completely overlooking it was an universal nerf to almost everyone and overlooking alternatives; > > Even if portal actually was useless, which it isnt, u can still go full 1v1, triple utility and win every 1v1, including soulbeast. They had the option to do that before the patch too and ppl conciously ran portal anyways (they would still win with portal if the sb got unlucky with plasmas afaik, not 100% familiar with the matchup tho), which shows how broken portal and mesmer with portal was and how justified the nerf was. > > I think the real issue isn't that portal is so good and now it isn't it's that portal has gone from being so good to a mockery of it's former self like how Bountiful Disillusionment stab went from abused in some situations but not being over bearing outside of those abused times (CS) to a complete joke of 1s. If they had removed the stab people would have been less salty but leaving it at a token amount is like rubbing salt in a wound. > > Same thing here, you make portal vastly reduced in effectiveness when it already was bad outside of coordinated teams/top 50 players. They should have removed portal and made a different skill but then people would have to actually do jumping puzzles. Still good and it was broken before, saying it was bad outside of "coordinated/top50" is ridiculous and it doesnt justify the skill even if it were true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sampson.2403 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 99.9% of the reason people pick portal is so they can portal stomp. Asura chicks dig my portal stomps and they can dig yours too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 > @"djoun.3425" said: > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > @"djoun.3425" said: > > > Actually insane how spoiled mesmers are. Has the most broken skill in the game reduced from mandatory and they cry. And completely overlooking it was an universal nerf to almost everyone and overlooking alternatives; > > > Even if portal actually was useless, which it isnt, u can still go full 1v1, triple utility and win every 1v1, including soulbeast. They had the option to do that before the patch too and ppl conciously ran portal anyways (they would still win with portal if the sb got unlucky with plasmas afaik, not 100% familiar with the matchup tho), which shows how broken portal and mesmer with portal was and how justified the nerf was. > > > > I think the real issue isn't that portal is so good and now it isn't it's that portal has gone from being so good to a mockery of it's former self like how Bountiful Disillusionment stab went from abused in some situations but not being over bearing outside of those abused times (CS) to a complete joke of 1s. If they had removed the stab people would have been less salty but leaving it at a token amount is like rubbing salt in a wound. > > > > Same thing here, you make portal vastly reduced in effectiveness when it already was bad outside of coordinated teams/top 50 players. They should have removed portal and made a different skill but then people would have to actually do jumping puzzles. > > Still good and it was broken before, saying it was bad outside of "coordinated/top50" is ridiculous and it doesnt justify the skill even if it were true. The majority of people using portal (yes you too most likely) don't actually understand how to use it right. Even fewer understand how to play around it and sit on the node "protecting it" from being decapped. Unfortunately they don't realise this means they leave their team at a numbers disadvantage across the map, leave the portal and force mesmers into 2-3 player fights where they scale poorly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djoun.3425 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 > @"apharma.3741" said: > > @"djoun.3425" said: > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > @"djoun.3425" said: > > > > Actually insane how spoiled mesmers are. Has the most broken skill in the game reduced from mandatory and they cry. And completely overlooking it was an universal nerf to almost everyone and overlooking alternatives; > > > > Even if portal actually was useless, which it isnt, u can still go full 1v1, triple utility and win every 1v1, including soulbeast. They had the option to do that before the patch too and ppl conciously ran portal anyways (they would still win with portal if the sb got unlucky with plasmas afaik, not 100% familiar with the matchup tho), which shows how broken portal and mesmer with portal was and how justified the nerf was. > > > > > > I think the real issue isn't that portal is so good and now it isn't it's that portal has gone from being so good to a mockery of it's former self like how Bountiful Disillusionment stab went from abused in some situations but not being over bearing outside of those abused times (CS) to a complete joke of 1s. If they had removed the stab people would have been less salty but leaving it at a token amount is like rubbing salt in a wound. > > > > > > Same thing here, you make portal vastly reduced in effectiveness when it already was bad outside of coordinated teams/top 50 players. They should have removed portal and made a different skill but then people would have to actually do jumping puzzles. > > > > Still good and it was broken before, saying it was bad outside of "coordinated/top50" is ridiculous and it doesnt justify the skill even if it were true. > > The majority of people using portal (yes you too most likely) don't actually understand how to use it right. Even fewer understand how to play around it and sit on the node "protecting it" from being decapped. Unfortunately they don't realise this means they leave their team at a numbers disadvantage across the map, leave the portal and force mesmers into 2-3 player fights where they scale poorly. Ppl who are new to the game not knowing how to use it doesnt make it bad or justify it. Even IF its true that for example in plat + its broken but below it it's ok. The fact that matters is that it's broken in plat +. Then u have something balanced in 1 part but something completely broken in the other. Nerfing it would make it balanced in 1 part while it wouldnt be good in the other which is fine because there are alternatives to the ppl who dont know how to use it. Broken + balanced vs balanced + balanced (alternative). Also i like how u said it urself, ppl dont know how to use it as well (which would go for anything when u compare a good vs bad player) but also dont know how to play around it the lower you get, canceling out or even passing the dont know how to use it part pretty well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
losingcontrol.1084 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > @"Xstein.2187" said: > > > @"Chaith.8256" said: > > > > @"incisorr.9502" said: > > > > portal was already pretty bad and i don't understand all the hype around it. People's reasoning on portal is incredibly stupid and the best i heard so far was "if your teammates are dying you can use portal and save them" > > > > > > > > if your teammates are dying they are garbage and deserve to die. ^That sounds like such a loser thing to say. Why would you need to save your teammates if they are better than the enemy and don't need saving? and with that being said, people should aim to be better than the enemy in equal number pvp so that they won't need saving - portal is the exact opposite of that, it aims to make a weaker comp win due to outrotating and outnumbering but that's just dumb cus if you're better than your enemy you can just stand on 1 place and win the game like that and portal won't come into play > > > > > > > > > Let me just say that I'm happy portal was limited to a smaller window of play making. However, you're wrong if you think using portal to allow teammates to disengage means your team is not worth saving. And the guy you're replying to is wrong by saying portal was already pretty bad! It's probably the best single skill in game for conquest, but just under utilized in unorganized queues. > > > > > > GW2 PvP leaves many people outnumbered/ganked and focus fired by multiple people. Saving them with portal basically negates all of the enemy's offensive cooldowns. Also you can EZ revive an Ele by the downstate Ele and allies all entering a portal to revive in another location. They're good strategies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is exactly right. That is why I thought a better fix to portal would be to lower the amount of teammates who could pass through portal in PvP (maybe 2). Mesmer for a long time has been balanced around portal. By lowering the effectiveness of portal in team play while maintaining the solo ability, you make the class easier to balance. However, instead they made it so much more forethought and planning is needed to use portal effectively. Therefore, if portal is used in competitive, team play, there is going to be an even larger discrepancy between team play and solo play while mesmer is STILL balanced around portal if it continues to be used. But alas, the devs leave me disappointed once again. > > Chaith only mentioned potential team portal plays. > > Don't forget that a mesmer can take a 1v1 on a node with two options: > > 1. If he wins: > - Cap the point. > - Drop portal. > - Rotate to team fight. > - Portal back to prevent decap from the person on respawn. > > 2. If he's losing: > - Drop portal. > - Rotate to team fight. > - Portal back once the person capping comes mid (so he's not sitting on the point being useless for 60 seconds while his team is being outnumbered) > - Guarantee a decap while potentially saving teammates which then can portal back in with more health + cooldowns onto a still neutral node. > > This utility was and is still one of the most powerful and impactful skills in Conquest. It's a 72 second cooldown utility that effectively locks down a node for it's duration while providing massive team rotational ability. It's funny seeing mesmer mains trying to downplay this ability lol Mesmer mains who downplay the ability are bad carried mesmers who never learnt or didn't know how to use portal. The difference between using portal in an organized team versus a random queque is huge, but it's huge even if the enemy have no mesmer and your team has a pro mesmer with portal, he is able to carry by himself half match. Now mesmer will be just undefeated god of 1vs1s and even noobs will play it effectively thanks to a free slot opened in the utility bar. And if not another mesmer not even boonbeast will have a good 1vs1 matchup against the meta hybrid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilmi.5369 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 All this talk about good and bad mesmers and if the nerf is justified or not. Also, this "mesmer main spottet idiocy" being shout out as if it was a very clever argument. As if the portal nerf wouldn't hurt the whole team play (except the ones without a mesmer). As a matter of fact portal now is weaker than before and less flexible. It also is a matter of fact that it has been is in the game since forever and has remained untouched and now finally gets nerfed since mirage is kind of over performing (or at least that's what people claim). It also was nerfed in such insensitive manner that I believe that it now just will see less usage and that mesmers (mesmer main or not) now might take more selfish utilities instead. Like it or not but you will see more mesmers which instead will be running Decoy, Mirror Images, Arcane Thievery or Illusionary Ambush which is just another 1200 port on a 20 sec cooldown. I will see you guys around when you complain about even more power creep and Mirages being literally untraceable while core mesmer has one less tool to be able to contribute to a team effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Disgrace.4275 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 > @"ilmi.5369" said: > All this talk about good and bad mesmers and if the nerf is justified or not. Also, this "mesmer main spottet idiocy" being shout out as if it was a very clever argument. As if the portal nerf wouldn't hurt the whole team play (except the ones without a mesmer). As a matter of fact portal now is weaker than before and less flexible. It also is a matter of fact that it has been is in the game since forever and has remained untouched and now finally gets nerfed since mirage is kind of over performing (or at least that's what people claim). It also was nerfed in such insensitive manner that I believe that it now just will see less usage and that mesmers (mesmer main or not) now might take more selfish utilities instead. Like it or not but you will see more mesmers which instead will be running Decoy, Mirror Images, Arcane Thievery or Illusionary Ambush which is just another 1200 port on a 20 sec cooldown. I will see you guys around when you complain about even more power creep and Mirages being literally untraceable while core mesmer has one less tool to be able to contribute to a team effort. I have said this in another post but, why is this 30 second duration a problem? When I use to watch a lot of streams, nearly every mesmer (solo or at) always dropped way before 20 seconds, let alone 30. So why is this a problem now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilmi.5369 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > @"ilmi.5369" said: > > All this talk about good and bad mesmers and if the nerf is justified or not. Also, this "mesmer main spottet idiocy" being shout out as if it was a very clever argument. As if the portal nerf wouldn't hurt the whole team play (except the ones without a mesmer). As a matter of fact portal now is weaker than before and less flexible. It also is a matter of fact that it has been is in the game since forever and has remained untouched and now finally gets nerfed since mirage is kind of over performing (or at least that's what people claim). It also was nerfed in such insensitive manner that I believe that it now just will see less usage and that mesmers (mesmer main or not) now might take more selfish utilities instead. Like it or not but you will see more mesmers which instead will be running Decoy, Mirror Images, Arcane Thievery or Illusionary Ambush which is just another 1200 port on a 20 sec cooldown. I will see you guys around when you complain about even more power creep and Mirages being literally untraceable while core mesmer has one less tool to be able to contribute to a team effort. > > I have said this in another post but, why is this 30 second duration a problem? When I use to watch a lot of streams, nearly every mesmer (solo or at) always dropped way before 20 seconds, let alone 30. So why is this a problem now? I do not think that one could generalize that all mesmers use portal in the first 20 seconds, as there are so many other cases in which they do not (portal stomps, keeping capture points neutral or whatever). I will not argue why I like it or not but simply state that it means less flexibility which makes it less attractive to me. To answer your question, I guess it is perceived as a problem because of the is the drastic way they changed it and the suspicion that it happened because of mirage performing so well, although it's not a mirage exclusive ability. It feels like being forced by A-Net to take other options for a free utility slot. EDIT: Also don't misread my comment as a judgement about portal being unusable or broken-destroyed-stomped-to-the -ground. But it is unquestionable weaker and to people who have been playing with portal for years, this feels like a pretty drastic cut. Of course, Mesmers (and team members) need to get over it and adapt as always. And I guess they will by considering other slot options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 > @"Sampson.2403" said: > 99.9% of the reason people pick portal is so they can portal stomp. Asura chicks dig my portal stomps and they can dig yours too. Portal Stomps are literally the coolest thing you can do in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 > @"incisorr.9502" said: > people who over-praise portal are not very bright > portal is essentially just a 5k range 70 second cd blink, it's not that great. Like I said, "It's funny seeing mesmer mains trying to downplay this ability." Portal is _essentially_ a 5k range, 72 cd blink that doesn't require LoS, can port their entire team back and forth multiple times, and (if used correctly, which isn't nearly as difficult as people are making it out to seem) effectively guarantees you get/stop a decap on one point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liewec.2896 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > @"reikken.4961" said: > > it still has an enormous amount of power and potential. It's just less insanely broken > > No. i like your argument, i've read through the whole thing and i find it incredibly persuasive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > @"incisorr.9502" said: > > people who over-praise portal are not very bright > > portal is essentially just a 5k range 70 second cd blink, it's not that great. > > Like I said, "It's funny seeing mesmer mains trying to downplay this ability." > > Portal is _essentially_ a 5k range, 72 cd blink that doesn't require LoS, can port their entire team back and forth multiple times, and (if used correctly, which isn't nearly as difficult as people are making it out to seem) effectively guarantees you get/stop a decap on one point. It's closer to a team Spectral Walk than Blink as you can only go where you've been before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malediktus.9250 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Portal was broken OP in pvp anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > @"SteepledHat.1345" said: > > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > > @"SteepledHat.1345" said: > > > > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"reikken.4961" said: > > > > > > > > > > it still has an enormous amount of power and potential. It's just less insanely broken > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Old portal was drop and leave then use IF needed. > > > > > > > > New portal is about active use, still strong if the player is experienced with pvp. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, I'm only plat, but golly I just feel like 30 seconds to run from far to mid leaves me only 15 to do anything useful is kinda a problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yea it appears it requires more conviction needed to pull it off effectively or some pre planning and active decision making before dropping the portal... > > > > > > > > > > > > I can see this being an issue for less experienced players such as myself. > > > > > > > > > > It requires violating the movement speed limitations to use it successfully as it was once. Now there's no way you should take it over other utils. > > > > > > > > Im still gunna take it from time to time when I duo, always found it handy to leave a port on home for the guy capping then portal him strait to mid once the cap is completed or to run a port from mid to far to help team mates rotate back into the fight quicker.. > > > > > > > > Im just a scrub though, but I can still see its potential. > > > > > > > > The only thing it changes for me is that I cant drop it on a point as a "just in case" situation, being that I could use it to escape bad fights or in case the point becomes contested. No more over commitments in fights for easy bail outs. > > > > > > Neither of these are particularly good uses of portal as the time you've "saved" for your teammate is time you yourself spent away from the main engagements you could have been involved in. > > > > It appears you misread. > > > > For example you going close along side the person who will be capping home so you can portal him to mid "quicker". This is the play you described. The time spent setting up the portal is time spent away from the rest of the team -2. You didn't actually save anyone a walk from close to home. You just did the walk instead of the person capping close. > > Just for example on Foefire it takes about 15 seconds to run from spawn to base, 15 seconds to run from spawn to home and 15 seconds to run from home to mid. Instead of going from spawn to mid or spawn to home, you're going from spawn to home to mid, spending about 30 seconds to get the mid fight, leaving the team -2 for 15 seconds when the could have had even numbers in the fight. > > A better use of portal was to send the mesmer home, have equal numbers mid, have the mesmer drop portal on home and come mid. This was the team isn't ever outnumbered anywhere, and if the mid fight goes south the mesmer could rescue their team by dropping a portal from mid to home, allowing their team to retreat, resustain and portal back to the midfight fresh again. This actually maximizes travel speed of your comp and why mesmer almost always goes home at the start of the game. But team fights are sometimes explosive affairs and other times they are long, drawn out ones. And there's going to be a lot of times where this play will fail more times that they help. There are plenty of ways to use my 2 examples but you solely focused on situations where you wouldn't use it for the sake of "internet arguing", you actually picked the only map that would work in your favor for your "argument", but every other map the tactic works fine like Nhifel, Khylo, Temple and so forth.... We both know you had to use Foefire if you wanted to attempt to dislodge the argument but what you don't understand is this is not an argument, this is a scrub trying to help an elitist that can't see past an example or 2. Your responses are literally "oh but but but what if on one certain circumstance or map then it won't work", like cmon man, act like an intelligent human being and not like an adolescent child, I actually thought you were past puberty so don't prove me wrong here. I guess your options now are either man up and still make good use of portal or sit and winge, it won't effect me either way because I'm already laughing at the fact a top tier player can't think past my own 2 examples and furthermore actually spent the time to argue it specifically to one map as if that would somehow, someway, debunk it across all maps and situations. Any logical person with half a brain can see what you attempted to do here, so with that said: It's still strong, it's still effective but now it actually requires active play.... The very thing you top tier players wanted, you got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > @"SteepledHat.1345" said: > > > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > > > @"SteepledHat.1345" said: > > > > > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"reikken.4961" said: > > > > > > > > > > > it still has an enormous amount of power and potential. It's just less insanely broken > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Old portal was drop and leave then use IF needed. > > > > > > > > > New portal is about active use, still strong if the player is experienced with pvp. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, I'm only plat, but golly I just feel like 30 seconds to run from far to mid leaves me only 15 to do anything useful is kinda a problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yea it appears it requires more conviction needed to pull it off effectively or some pre planning and active decision making before dropping the portal... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can see this being an issue for less experienced players such as myself. > > > > > > > > > > > > It requires violating the movement speed limitations to use it successfully as it was once. Now there's no way you should take it over other utils. > > > > > > > > > > Im still gunna take it from time to time when I duo, always found it handy to leave a port on home for the guy capping then portal him strait to mid once the cap is completed or to run a port from mid to far to help team mates rotate back into the fight quicker.. > > > > > > > > > > Im just a scrub though, but I can still see its potential. > > > > > > > > > > The only thing it changes for me is that I cant drop it on a point as a "just in case" situation, being that I could use it to escape bad fights or in case the point becomes contested. No more over commitments in fights for easy bail outs. > > > > > > > > Neither of these are particularly good uses of portal as the time you've "saved" for your teammate is time you yourself spent away from the main engagements you could have been involved in. > > > > > > It appears you misread. > > > > > > > For example you going close along side the person who will be capping home so you can portal him to mid "quicker". This is the play you described. The time spent setting up the portal is time spent away from the rest of the team -2. You didn't actually save anyone a walk from close to home. You just did the walk instead of the person capping close. > > > > Just for example on Foefire it takes about 15 seconds to run from spawn to base, 15 seconds to run from spawn to home and 15 seconds to run from home to mid. Instead of going from spawn to mid or spawn to home, you're going from spawn to home to mid, spending about 30 seconds to get the mid fight, leaving the team -2 for 15 seconds when the could have had even numbers in the fight. > > > > A better use of portal was to send the mesmer home, have equal numbers mid, have the mesmer drop portal on home and come mid. This was the team isn't ever outnumbered anywhere, and if the mid fight goes south the mesmer could rescue their team by dropping a portal from mid to home, allowing their team to retreat, resustain and portal back to the midfight fresh again. This actually maximizes travel speed of your comp and why mesmer almost always goes home at the start of the game. But team fights are sometimes explosive affairs and other times they are long, drawn out ones. And there's going to be a lot of times where this play will fail more times that they help. > > You used Foefire as an example, but every other map the tactic works fine like Nhifel, Khylo, Temple and so forth.... We both know you had to use Foefire if you wanted to attempt to dislodge the argument but what you don't understand is this is not an argument, this is a scrub trying to help an elitist that can't see past an example or 2. I only used Foefire because earlier in response to someone in this thread I tested how fast a Meta Mirage and Meta Thief can rotate from close to mid back to close (Mirage is a couple seconds faster but blows all it's mobility to do some while thief's mobility can sustain for much longer after this theoretical race) so I knew exactly how fast in seconds it takes to go to the various points of that specific map,and Foefire was the one map I picked because it's very vanilla, like not having the weird LOS walls around Skyhammer's side nodes. Khylo is the only one that's potentially a good use of time or portal because you can blink or jaunt up to Clock Tower sooo quicky so you'll basically get to the mid fight as fast as the main group. But Forest, Temple, Capricorn, Skyhammer, not a particularly good use of portal or time. And even in the best case scenario and looking at exactly what you're doing, all you've really done is spend a 72 second cooldown, to at best give a teammate the speed of a blink and maybe a jaunt or two instead of just saving the cooldown of portal and blinking and jaunting yourself. It makes a bit more sense if a fight broke out on a side node that required you to plus, thus both of you being there at the same time makes sense, but you specifically talked about the opening splits. > Your responses are literally "oh but but but what if on one certain circumstance or map then it won't work", like cmon man, act like an intelligent human being and not like an adolescent child. This is oddly hostile? > So either man up and still make good use of portal or sit and winge, it won't effect me either way because I'm already laughing at the fact a top tier player can't think past my own 2 examples. I'll probably just drop portal and run three combat utilities quite frankly. > > > It's still strong, it's still effective but now it actually requires active play.... The very thing you top tier players wanted, you got. I think most mesmers are going to just take three combat utilities and drop portal now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > @"Xstein.2187" said: > > > @"Chaith.8256" said: > > > > @"incisorr.9502" said: > > > > portal was already pretty bad and i don't understand all the hype around it. People's reasoning on portal is incredibly stupid and the best i heard so far was "if your teammates are dying you can use portal and save them" > > > > > > > > if your teammates are dying they are garbage and deserve to die. ^That sounds like such a loser thing to say. Why would you need to save your teammates if they are better than the enemy and don't need saving? and with that being said, people should aim to be better than the enemy in equal number pvp so that they won't need saving - portal is the exact opposite of that, it aims to make a weaker comp win due to outrotating and outnumbering but that's just dumb cus if you're better than your enemy you can just stand on 1 place and win the game like that and portal won't come into play > > > > > > > > > Let me just say that I'm happy portal was limited to a smaller window of play making. However, you're wrong if you think using portal to allow teammates to disengage means your team is not worth saving. And the guy you're replying to is wrong by saying portal was already pretty bad! It's probably the best single skill in game for conquest, but just under utilized in unorganized queues. > > > > > > GW2 PvP leaves many people outnumbered/ganked and focus fired by multiple people. Saving them with portal basically negates all of the enemy's offensive cooldowns. Also you can EZ revive an Ele by the downstate Ele and allies all entering a portal to revive in another location. They're good strategies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is exactly right. That is why I thought a better fix to portal would be to lower the amount of teammates who could pass through portal in PvP (maybe 2). Mesmer for a long time has been balanced around portal. By lowering the effectiveness of portal in team play while maintaining the solo ability, you make the class easier to balance. However, instead they made it so much more forethought and planning is needed to use portal effectively. Therefore, if portal is used in competitive, team play, there is going to be an even larger discrepancy between team play and solo play while mesmer is STILL balanced around portal if it continues to be used. But alas, the devs leave me disappointed once again. > > Chaith only mentioned potential team portal plays. > > Don't forget that a mesmer can take a 1v1 on a node with two options: > > 1. If he wins: > - Cap the point. > - Drop portal. > - Rotate to team fight. > - Portal back to prevent decap from the person on respawn. > > 2. If he's losing: > - Drop portal. > - Rotate to team fight. > - Portal back once the person capping comes mid (so he's not sitting on the point being useless for 60 seconds while his team is being outnumbered) > - Guarantee a decap while potentially saving teammates which then can portal back in with more health + cooldowns onto a still neutral node. > > This utility **was and is still one of the most powerful and impactful skills in Conquest**. It's a 72 second cooldown utility that effectively locks down a node for it's duration while providing massive team rotational ability. It's funny seeing mesmer mains trying to downplay this ability lol Prepatch I'd agree with you that it's the strongest utility skill in the game but post patch? Nah. How many games post patch did you play that were won by portal? Personally I think Signet of Mercy is currently the single most impactful elite post patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > > @"SteepledHat.1345" said: > > > > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > > > > @"SteepledHat.1345" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"reikken.4961" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > it still has an enormous amount of power and potential. It's just less insanely broken > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Old portal was drop and leave then use IF needed. > > > > > > > > > > New portal is about active use, still strong if the player is experienced with pvp. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, I'm only plat, but golly I just feel like 30 seconds to run from far to mid leaves me only 15 to do anything useful is kinda a problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yea it appears it requires more conviction needed to pull it off effectively or some pre planning and active decision making before dropping the portal... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can see this being an issue for less experienced players such as myself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It requires violating the movement speed limitations to use it successfully as it was once. Now there's no way you should take it over other utils. > > > > > > > > > > > > Im still gunna take it from time to time when I duo, always found it handy to leave a port on home for the guy capping then portal him strait to mid once the cap is completed or to run a port from mid to far to help team mates rotate back into the fight quicker.. > > > > > > > > > > > > Im just a scrub though, but I can still see its potential. > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing it changes for me is that I cant drop it on a point as a "just in case" situation, being that I could use it to escape bad fights or in case the point becomes contested. No more over commitments in fights for easy bail outs. > > > > > > > > > > Neither of these are particularly good uses of portal as the time you've "saved" for your teammate is time you yourself spent away from the main engagements you could have been involved in. > > > > > > > > It appears you misread. > > > > > > > > > > For example you going close along side the person who will be capping home so you can portal him to mid "quicker". This is the play you described. The time spent setting up the portal is time spent away from the rest of the team -2. You didn't actually save anyone a walk from close to home. You just did the walk instead of the person capping close. > > > > > > Just for example on Foefire it takes about 15 seconds to run from spawn to base, 15 seconds to run from spawn to home and 15 seconds to run from home to mid. Instead of going from spawn to mid or spawn to home, you're going from spawn to home to mid, spending about 30 seconds to get the mid fight, leaving the team -2 for 15 seconds when the could have had even numbers in the fight. > > > > > > A better use of portal was to send the mesmer home, have equal numbers mid, have the mesmer drop portal on home and come mid. This was the team isn't ever outnumbered anywhere, and if the mid fight goes south the mesmer could rescue their team by dropping a portal from mid to home, allowing their team to retreat, resustain and portal back to the midfight fresh again. This actually maximizes travel speed of your comp and why mesmer almost always goes home at the start of the game. But team fights are sometimes explosive affairs and other times they are long, drawn out ones. And there's going to be a lot of times where this play will fail more times that they help. > > > > You used Foefire as an example, but every other map the tactic works fine like Nhifel, Khylo, Temple and so forth.... We both know you had to use Foefire if you wanted to attempt to dislodge the argument but what you don't understand is this is not an argument, this is a scrub trying to help an elitist that can't see past an example or 2. > > I only used Foefire because earlier in response to someone in this thread I tested how fast a Meta Mirage and Meta Thief can rotate from close to mid back to close (Mirage is a couple seconds faster but blows all it's mobility to do some while thief's mobility can sustain for much longer after this theoretical race) so I knew exactly how fast in seconds it takes to go to the various points of that specific map,and Foefire was the one map I picked because it's very vanilla, like not having the weird LOS walls around Skyhammer's side nodes. > > Khylo is the only one that's potentially a good use of time or portal because you can blink or jaunt up to Clock Tower sooo quicky so you'll basically get to the mid fight as fast as the main group. But Forest, Temple, Capricorn, Skyhammer, not a particularly good use of portal or time. And even in the best case scenario and looking at exactly what you're doing, all you've really done is spend a 72 second cooldown, to at best give a teammate the speed of a blink and maybe a jaunt or two instead of just saving the cooldown of portal and blinking and jaunting yourself. It makes a bit more sense if a fight broke out on a side node that required you to plus, thus both of you being there at the same time makes sense, but you specifically talked about the opening splits. > > > Your responses are literally "oh but but but what if on one certain circumstance or map then it won't work", like cmon man, act like an intelligent human being and not like an adolescent child. > This is oddly hostile? > > > So either man up and still make good use of portal or sit and winge, it won't effect me either way because I'm already laughing at the fact a top tier player can't think past my own 2 examples. > I'll probably just drop portal and run three combat utilities quite frankly. > > > > > > It's still strong, it's still effective but now it actually requires active play.... The very thing you top tier players wanted, you got. > I think most mesmers are going to just take three combat utilities and drop portal now. My apologies, wasn't meant to be hostile.. I've been a little blunt since my fathers death last week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > > > @"SteepledHat.1345" said: > > > > > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"SteepledHat.1345" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"reikken.4961" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > it still has an enormous amount of power and potential. It's just less insanely broken > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Old portal was drop and leave then use IF needed. > > > > > > > > > > > New portal is about active use, still strong if the player is experienced with pvp. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, I'm only plat, but golly I just feel like 30 seconds to run from far to mid leaves me only 15 to do anything useful is kinda a problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yea it appears it requires more conviction needed to pull it off effectively or some pre planning and active decision making before dropping the portal... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can see this being an issue for less experienced players such as myself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It requires violating the movement speed limitations to use it successfully as it was once. Now there's no way you should take it over other utils. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Im still gunna take it from time to time when I duo, always found it handy to leave a port on home for the guy capping then portal him strait to mid once the cap is completed or to run a port from mid to far to help team mates rotate back into the fight quicker.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Im just a scrub though, but I can still see its potential. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing it changes for me is that I cant drop it on a point as a "just in case" situation, being that I could use it to escape bad fights or in case the point becomes contested. No more over commitments in fights for easy bail outs. > > > > > > > > > > > > Neither of these are particularly good uses of portal as the time you've "saved" for your teammate is time you yourself spent away from the main engagements you could have been involved in. > > > > > > > > > > It appears you misread. > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example you going close along side the person who will be capping home so you can portal him to mid "quicker". This is the play you described. The time spent setting up the portal is time spent away from the rest of the team -2. You didn't actually save anyone a walk from close to home. You just did the walk instead of the person capping close. > > > > > > > > Just for example on Foefire it takes about 15 seconds to run from spawn to base, 15 seconds to run from spawn to home and 15 seconds to run from home to mid. Instead of going from spawn to mid or spawn to home, you're going from spawn to home to mid, spending about 30 seconds to get the mid fight, leaving the team -2 for 15 seconds when the could have had even numbers in the fight. > > > > > > > > A better use of portal was to send the mesmer home, have equal numbers mid, have the mesmer drop portal on home and come mid. This was the team isn't ever outnumbered anywhere, and if the mid fight goes south the mesmer could rescue their team by dropping a portal from mid to home, allowing their team to retreat, resustain and portal back to the midfight fresh again. This actually maximizes travel speed of your comp and why mesmer almost always goes home at the start of the game. But team fights are sometimes explosive affairs and other times they are long, drawn out ones. And there's going to be a lot of times where this play will fail more times that they help. > > > > > > You used Foefire as an example, but every other map the tactic works fine like Nhifel, Khylo, Temple and so forth.... We both know you had to use Foefire if you wanted to attempt to dislodge the argument but what you don't understand is this is not an argument, this is a scrub trying to help an elitist that can't see past an example or 2. > > > > I only used Foefire because earlier in response to someone in this thread I tested how fast a Meta Mirage and Meta Thief can rotate from close to mid back to close (Mirage is a couple seconds faster but blows all it's mobility to do some while thief's mobility can sustain for much longer after this theoretical race) so I knew exactly how fast in seconds it takes to go to the various points of that specific map,and Foefire was the one map I picked because it's very vanilla, like not having the weird LOS walls around Skyhammer's side nodes. > > > > Khylo is the only one that's potentially a good use of time or portal because you can blink or jaunt up to Clock Tower sooo quicky so you'll basically get to the mid fight as fast as the main group. But Forest, Temple, Capricorn, Skyhammer, not a particularly good use of portal or time. And even in the best case scenario and looking at exactly what you're doing, all you've really done is spend a 72 second cooldown, to at best give a teammate the speed of a blink and maybe a jaunt or two instead of just saving the cooldown of portal and blinking and jaunting yourself. It makes a bit more sense if a fight broke out on a side node that required you to plus, thus both of you being there at the same time makes sense, but you specifically talked about the opening splits. > > > > > Your responses are literally "oh but but but what if on one certain circumstance or map then it won't work", like cmon man, act like an intelligent human being and not like an adolescent child. > > This is oddly hostile? > > > > > So either man up and still make good use of portal or sit and winge, it won't effect me either way because I'm already laughing at the fact a top tier player can't think past my own 2 examples. > > I'll probably just drop portal and run three combat utilities quite frankly. > > > > > > > > > It's still strong, it's still effective but now it actually requires active play.... The very thing you top tier players wanted, you got. > > I think most mesmers are going to just take three combat utilities and drop portal now. > > My apologies, wasn't meant to be hostile.. I've been a little blunt since my fathers death last week. My condolences to you and your family. Take good care of yourself and cherish the time spent with your loved ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteepledHat.1345 Posted December 14, 2018 Author Share Posted December 14, 2018 > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > > > @"SteepledHat.1345" said: > > > > > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"SteepledHat.1345" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"reikken.4961" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > it still has an enormous amount of power and potential. It's just less insanely broken > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Old portal was drop and leave then use IF needed. > > > > > > > > > > > New portal is about active use, still strong if the player is experienced with pvp. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, I'm only plat, but golly I just feel like 30 seconds to run from far to mid leaves me only 15 to do anything useful is kinda a problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yea it appears it requires more conviction needed to pull it off effectively or some pre planning and active decision making before dropping the portal... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can see this being an issue for less experienced players such as myself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It requires violating the movement speed limitations to use it successfully as it was once. Now there's no way you should take it over other utils. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Im still gunna take it from time to time when I duo, always found it handy to leave a port on home for the guy capping then portal him strait to mid once the cap is completed or to run a port from mid to far to help team mates rotate back into the fight quicker.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Im just a scrub though, but I can still see its potential. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing it changes for me is that I cant drop it on a point as a "just in case" situation, being that I could use it to escape bad fights or in case the point becomes contested. No more over commitments in fights for easy bail outs. > > > > > > > > > > > > Neither of these are particularly good uses of portal as the time you've "saved" for your teammate is time you yourself spent away from the main engagements you could have been involved in. > > > > > > > > > > It appears you misread. > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example you going close along side the person who will be capping home so you can portal him to mid "quicker". This is the play you described. The time spent setting up the portal is time spent away from the rest of the team -2. You didn't actually save anyone a walk from close to home. You just did the walk instead of the person capping close. > > > > > > > > Just for example on Foefire it takes about 15 seconds to run from spawn to base, 15 seconds to run from spawn to home and 15 seconds to run from home to mid. Instead of going from spawn to mid or spawn to home, you're going from spawn to home to mid, spending about 30 seconds to get the mid fight, leaving the team -2 for 15 seconds when the could have had even numbers in the fight. > > > > > > > > A better use of portal was to send the mesmer home, have equal numbers mid, have the mesmer drop portal on home and come mid. This was the team isn't ever outnumbered anywhere, and if the mid fight goes south the mesmer could rescue their team by dropping a portal from mid to home, allowing their team to retreat, resustain and portal back to the midfight fresh again. This actually maximizes travel speed of your comp and why mesmer almost always goes home at the start of the game. But team fights are sometimes explosive affairs and other times they are long, drawn out ones. And there's going to be a lot of times where this play will fail more times that they help. > > > > > > You used Foefire as an example, but every other map the tactic works fine like Nhifel, Khylo, Temple and so forth.... We both know you had to use Foefire if you wanted to attempt to dislodge the argument but what you don't understand is this is not an argument, this is a scrub trying to help an elitist that can't see past an example or 2. > > > > I only used Foefire because earlier in response to someone in this thread I tested how fast a Meta Mirage and Meta Thief can rotate from close to mid back to close (Mirage is a couple seconds faster but blows all it's mobility to do some while thief's mobility can sustain for much longer after this theoretical race) so I knew exactly how fast in seconds it takes to go to the various points of that specific map,and Foefire was the one map I picked because it's very vanilla, like not having the weird LOS walls around Skyhammer's side nodes. > > > > Khylo is the only one that's potentially a good use of time or portal because you can blink or jaunt up to Clock Tower sooo quicky so you'll basically get to the mid fight as fast as the main group. But Forest, Temple, Capricorn, Skyhammer, not a particularly good use of portal or time. And even in the best case scenario and looking at exactly what you're doing, all you've really done is spend a 72 second cooldown, to at best give a teammate the speed of a blink and maybe a jaunt or two instead of just saving the cooldown of portal and blinking and jaunting yourself. It makes a bit more sense if a fight broke out on a side node that required you to plus, thus both of you being there at the same time makes sense, but you specifically talked about the opening splits. > > > > > Your responses are literally "oh but but but what if on one certain circumstance or map then it won't work", like cmon man, act like an intelligent human being and not like an adolescent child. > > This is oddly hostile? > > > > > So either man up and still make good use of portal or sit and winge, it won't effect me either way because I'm already laughing at the fact a top tier player can't think past my own 2 examples. > > I'll probably just drop portal and run three combat utilities quite frankly. > > > > > > > > > It's still strong, it's still effective but now it actually requires active play.... The very thing you top tier players wanted, you got. > > I think most mesmers are going to just take three combat utilities and drop portal now. > > My apologies, wasn't meant to be hostile.. I've been a little blunt since my fathers death last week. Sorry to hear that. Hope you are well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > @"SteepledHat.1345" said: > > Lots of golds and below talking like they understand how to play mesmer. Mort is making great points, and it blows my mind that people believe portal is brainless. It's basically sacrificing a stun break or condi cleanse for it's utility. In no way is it's current form worth running. This change reads like it was decided by someone who never played the class in SPvP. > > > > While I'm far from an expert, I doubt this change was thought through. It basically reads like "We don't want you running portal anymore. We don't want you doing your old job at all." I mean especially if you read the bits about extended fights with mesmer. As if that's what our job has ever been. It's always been plus 1's and rotation focused. > > > > But yeah, boonbeast needed a buff. > > Does any class have access to what is effectively on demand double protection, let alone double protection and double condition damage protection? Like anti physical support tempests were supposed to be real freaking big d support with their traited 40% protection damage reduction. And all added onto unambiguously the strongest side noder in the game. > > > @"kin korn karn.9023" said: > > > @"SteepledHat.1345" said: > > > Lots of golds and below talking like they understand how to play mesmer. Mort is making great points, and it blows my mind that people believe portal is brainless. It's basically sacrificing a stun break or condi cleanse for it's utility. In no way is it's current form worth running. This change reads like it was decided by someone who never played the class in SPvP. > > > > > > While I'm far from an expert, I doubt this change was thought through. It basically reads like "We don't want you running portal anymore. We don't want you doing your old job at all." I mean especially if you read the bits about extended fights with mesmer. As if that's what our job has ever been. It's always been plus 1's and rotation focused. > > > > > > But yeah, boonbeast needed a buff. > > LOL @ people cherry picking one Soulbeast skill rework that gives a tiny bit more sustain at the expense of damage, and proclaiming the entire Soulbeast balance was a "buff." > > > > GTFOH. > > Double protection is "tiny"? > > > @"DanAlcedo.3281" said: > > Are people really arguing that portal was not busted? > > > > New forum low. > > About as busted as thief mobility or necromancers consistently being the kings of corrupting boons into conditions and consistently top tier team fighters. Boon corrupt is one of necros unique points is it not? Every class has flaws. Look at ele problems they have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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