[Suggestion] Thunderhead Keep Meta Change

[Kreejaffa.3682]

I looked over the last few pages and did not see anything like this, so if it already exists, forgive me.

 

During the Thunderhead Keep meta, during the phase where we have to charge the crystal, I have become aware that every single time, we have players who seem to not be able to listen to Gorrik when he says to get the branded as close to the crystal as possible when killing them. Indeed, they seem to also either just plain ignore or not pay attention to the players around them who are constantly asking them to back up to get the branded within range of the crystals. Either they are just ignoring chat or they are doing it purposefully. Either way, it makes it take longer to complete the meta.

 

To solve this issue, the first thing that comes to mind would be to make the branded immune to damage until they are within range of the crystal. That would keep the players from sitting outside range of the crystal, camping their spawn. Or rather, it would keep them from mindlessly slaughtering them before they are in range. The branded would just need to be programmed to ignore the players until they are no longer immune to damage, otherwise, we would end up with players spawn camping invincible branded forever.

 

Another solution would be to extend the range of the crystal, though I dislike this option, as it kind makes Gorrik's advice moot, and it seems kinda cheesy.

 

The only other thing I could think of was to create a damaging effect outside of the crystal's range area, where the branded are coming from, that will very quickly down a player if they stay in it for several seconds. This would keep the players back to within range of the crystal, and hopefully encourage them to let the branded get closer.

 

I realize that this is not a major issue, because the meta still gets completed because the stronger enemies get past the horde of mindless players spamming 1 at the spawn point and make it to within range of the crystal, but if nothing else perhaps this can be something to keep in mind for future meta events involving similar mechanics? It's frustrating trying to do things as designed and having to fight against people who either have no idea what they are doing, or are purposefully trying to make it harder for others to complete it. I am sure most of them are just not paying attention to chat or instructions given to them by npcs for the event, but I know there are players who love ruining things for others for giggles.

[LucianDK.8615]

from what I understand those intentionally delaying it are farming karma.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> we have players who seem to not be able to listen to Gorrik when he says to get the branded as close to the crystal as possible when killing them.

I don't think it's a problem because it will never come close to preventing the meta from completing (enough foes spawn inside the keep to charge it and you can toss crystal shards from where foes die to the collection areas). Even if that wasn't the case, it's still not a 'problem' with the meta; it's an issue with people learning the mechanic. Or as @"LucianDK.8615" points out, people with other incentives besides finishing more quickly.

 

For now, I've decided that since I can't beat them, I'll join them. For me, it's less about getting the same rewards (although I never say no to more karma) and more about enjoying actually doing something rather than waiting for other people to agree with me about how to run the meta.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Or.... maybe....

Increase the health of the mobs so they don’t die 0.01 seconds after they spawn.

Or....

Let them not drop so much loot.

Or...

Increase the crystal charge radius.

 

Also, had the meta event ever failed because of it?

 

I do it everyday and never seen it fail.

 

[Khisanth.2948]

It would be nice to at least get an indicator for the crystal's range.

 

The last run I did still had like 12m left on the timer even with nearly everything killed around 900 range away from the bridge. The only thing being killed closer were the sappers which seems to charge it fast enough.

[Kas.3509]

Some ppl do it on purpose just for farming, Accept it, you cant force them to complete faster bcs they dont want it faster.

 

Indicating crystal range would be nice anyway.

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> from what I understand those intentionally delaying it are farming karma.

 

This.

 

1 Thunderhead meta provides 160-230 Karma dropswhen using a class to tag as many enemies as possible (Hello Scourge). Depending on the karmic retribution rank, that's 50, 100 or 200 Karma per drop.

[Randulf.7614]

Yes people are trying to delay things for their own gain and map chat is getting very tetchy.

 

I like the immunity idea

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"Kreejaffa.3682" said:

> To solve this issue, the first thing that comes to mind would be to make the branded immune to damage until they are within range of the crystal.

 

:+1:

 

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> For now, I've decided that since I can't beat them, I'll join them. For me, it's less about getting the same rewards (although I never say no to more karma) and more about enjoying actually doing something rather than waiting for other people to agree with me about how to run the meta.

 

It really is all there is left to do at the current status quo.

[Glider.5792]

> @"Khisanth.2948" said:

> It would be nice to at least get an indicator for the crystal's range.

>

> The last run I did still had like 12m left on the timer even with nearly everything killed around 900 range away from the bridge. The only thing being killed closer were the sappers which seems to charge it fast enough.

 

I mean, we do have an indicator. If the enemy is in range, a beam is connected from the crystal to the enemy.

[Danikat.8537]

I'm kind of torn on whether I think this should be changed. IMO there's a danger that changing events so it's harder to do them wrong could be a vicious circle or a slippery slope (or some kind of Escher style combination of the two) where people get into the habit of being able to ignore the NPCs and instructions because the game won't let them do it wrong, and then events which don't work like that will be even harder to complete because people won't be in the habit of paying attention to what they're doing.

 

But if they're doing it deliberately, knowing it will slow down the event and they don't care, and especially if it's leading to arguments in map chat (I've not seen that, but then I haven't done this meta much) it might be worth changing it to discourage farming which is detrimental to everyone else.

 

If it does need changing I think the immunity idea is the best one, it's effective, has a minimal impact on the event otherwise and should be an easy change for Anet to make.

[Khisanth.2948]

> @"Glider.5792" said:

> > @"Khisanth.2948" said:

> > It would be nice to at least get an indicator for the crystal's range.

> >

> > The last run I did still had like 12m left on the timer even with nearly everything killed around 900 range away from the bridge. The only thing being killed closer were the sappers which seems to charge it fast enough.

>

> I mean, we do have an indicator. If the enemy is in range, a beam is connected from the crystal to the enemy.

 

Didn't see that on anything which would imply nothing was killed in range but it was still getting charged so that can't be true either.

[Khanco.1584]

> @"Khisanth.2948" said:

> > @"Glider.5792" said:

> > > @"Khisanth.2948" said:

> > > It would be nice to at least get an indicator for the crystal's range.

> > >

> > > The last run I did still had like 12m left on the timer even with nearly everything killed around 900 range away from the bridge. The only thing being killed closer were the sappers which seems to charge it fast enough.

> >

> > I mean, we do have an indicator. If the enemy is in range, a beam is connected from the crystal to the enemy.

>

> Didn't see that on anything which would imply nothing was killed in range but it was still getting charged so that can't be true either.

 

I'm not certain but I think it's possible for the beam effect to be culled, I've certainly had runs where it didn't appear on the enemies in range of the crystal

[Glider.5792]

> @"Khisanth.2948" said:

> > @"Glider.5792" said:

> > > @"Khisanth.2948" said:

> > > It would be nice to at least get an indicator for the crystal's range.

> > >

> > > The last run I did still had like 12m left on the timer even with nearly everything killed around 900 range away from the bridge. The only thing being killed closer were the sappers which seems to charge it fast enough.

> >

> > I mean, we do have an indicator. If the enemy is in range, a beam is connected from the crystal to the enemy.

>

> Didn't see that on anything which would imply nothing was killed in range but it was still getting charged so that can't be true either.

 

Well, there are 2 sides of the event, and both are filling the bar (i think), alongside, you can throw branded crystals into it also (didnt do it myself yet, but aperently it also works?)

[Vancho.8750]

Maybe this part of the event should have a timer and the whole meta should fail if people slow it on purpose.Or add some op champion hydras that kill people and can be killed easily with the mines and arrow carts. Cause why do we have all this things with the building stuff and using them.

[DaFishBob.6518]

Make the spawning points a giant environmental hazard during the meta. It'll make the minimap near the spawns look like an Inquest Golem MK II fight.

[Skotlex.7580]

Anet does not like it when players stall an event to increase rewards, and they changed the kourna's meta because of this. So I would not be surprised if a similar change came to this meta.

 

From what I read here, the reasonable solution I would apply, without making the event easier, would be to disable drops if the enemy is outside range of the crystal: no more delaying the event for karma farming. But... maybe that not easy to program, so I would not be surprised if a similar change (removing loot, adding fixed chests at success) ends up being applied.

[Urud.4925]

I don't like to ask Anet to make foes invulnerable because ppl kill them too early. The problem, as many of you said, it's not that they are noob, they do it on purpose for the loot. I agree with @"Skotlex.7580" , the best solution would be to decrease a bit the drop during this phase, or (if even possible) to have no loot at all out of the range of the crystal.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Skotlex.7580" said:

> disable drops if the enemy is outside range of the crystal: no more delaying the event for karma farming.

That is exactly how they handled Kourna's meta... and, while fair, it's also exactly when I stopped participating in it. It's a long, long event chain without drops from foes as well as the end chests.

 

Thunderhead's meta is at less risk, because there is a guaranteed half-plate and a good chance of a serpentine jewel. Nevertheless, ANet could end up curing the disease by incapacitating the patient, i.e. the outcome might be worse than the status quo.

 

 

[Shade.8971]

People complain about the crystal's range making the fight take longer, but forget the longest part is the final boss. Giant balistas near the bottom make the final boss fight insanely quick yet people ignore it. Just let it go. People fail to realize the mechanics or just don't care but the event never fails either way.

[Khisanth.2948]

> @"Glider.5792" said:

> > @"Khisanth.2948" said:

> > > @"Glider.5792" said:

> > > > @"Khisanth.2948" said:

> > > > It would be nice to at least get an indicator for the crystal's range.

> > > >

> > > > The last run I did still had like 12m left on the timer even with nearly everything killed around 900 range away from the bridge. The only thing being killed closer were the sappers which seems to charge it fast enough.

> > >

> > > I mean, we do have an indicator. If the enemy is in range, a beam is connected from the crystal to the enemy.

> >

> > Didn't see that on anything which would imply nothing was killed in range but it was still getting charged so that can't be true either.

>

> Well, there are 2 sides of the event, and both are filling the bar (i think), alongside, you can throw branded crystals into it also (didnt do it myself yet, but aperently it also works?)

 

It does and the amount per crystal isn't too bad. It gives more progress per crystal than each egg throw against Patriarch's shield at max scaling.

 

> @"Shade.8971" said:

> People complain about the crystal's range making the fight take longer, but forget the longest part is the final boss. Giant balistas near the bottom make the final boss fight insanely quick yet people ignore it. Just let it go. People fail to realize the mechanics or just don't care but the event never fails either way.

 

There are also the spears. 25k-30k per crit.

 

The ballistas look hard to use unless people pull the boss to a better location.

[Rio.4259]

Honestly, is it really a big deal? o.o The times I have done it, yes there have been people "farming" the mobs at the spawn, and there have been people screaming at them, calling them names, mocking them, saying they don't know how to play, etc...but every time, the bar filled very fast and the event didn't even come close to failing. Is the issue that the bar doesn't fill instantly, or that an extra minute or two is too long?

[Khisanth.2948]

> @"Rio.4259" said:

> Honestly, is it really a big deal? o.o The times I have done it, yes there have been people "farming" the mobs at the spawn, and there have been people screaming at them, calling them names, mocking them, saying they don't know how to play, etc...but every time, the bar filled very fast and the event didn't even come close to failing. Is the issue that the bar doesn't fill instantly, or that an extra minute or two is too long?

 

If only they spent the time typing those complaints throwing shards instead ...