Can we stop with the "WvW players so hard to please" rhetoric?

[ProverbsofHell.2307]

This is quite irritating. PvE players come into WvW threads as the Anet Defense Force, and start pointing fingers at veteran WvW players who are rightfully upset about the addition of mounts. Just look at this reddit post,

 

_"What do WvW players actually ideally want added/updated about WvW?

 

I apologize for my ignorance but it almost sounds like people want it to remain the exact same but with better rewards and balance. So please enlighten me."_

 

Can you guys please stop? How dare you accuse us of not wanting new content. People have posted good suggestions here countless times. And MANY TIMES WE SAID NO MOUNTS.

SO, when you have the audacity to call us out when we get the one insulting addition we never asked for, yeah, we're more than a little annoyed.

 

PvE players, this isn't your fight, and we never asked for mounts. This isn't our content, it's Yours.

[Randulf.7614]

I dont disagree and pve players need to understand why the uproar exists, but wvw players in other threads should in turn stop the attacks on pve players for wanting to go into wvw no matter the motivation. For wvw to get updates, it needs to grow and attract more players. I cant say whether this is the right way forward, but those attacking pve and casual players is making it counter productive.

 

By all means players can support or criticise mounts, but both sides would do well to be a little more mature and respectful to each other, which currently isnt the case with Anet and the mods seemingly allowing the situation to run on the forums without control.

[ProverbsofHell.2307]

> @"Randulf.7614" said:

> I dont disagree and pve players need to understand why the uproar exists, but wvw players should in turn stop the attacks on pve players for wanting to go into wvw no matter the motivation. For wvw to get updates, it needs to grow and attract more players. I cant say whether this is the right way forward, but attacking pve and casual players is counter productive.

>

> By all means support or criticise mounts, but both sides would do well to be a little more mature and respectful to each other, which currently isnt the case.

 

I mean I agree, and this isn't an attack in any way shape or form on anyone, and I hope that's clear (especially to the moderators...). It's just demonstrating why people (PvE players) are out of line to say that to the WvW community.

[Randulf.7614]

> @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > @"Randulf.7614" said:

> > I dont disagree and pve players need to understand why the uproar exists, but wvw players should in turn stop the attacks on pve players for wanting to go into wvw no matter the motivation. For wvw to get updates, it needs to grow and attract more players. I cant say whether this is the right way forward, but attacking pve and casual players is counter productive.

> >

> > By all means support or criticise mounts, but both sides would do well to be a little more mature and respectful to each other, which currently isnt the case.

>

> I mean I agree, and this isn't an attack in any way shape or form on anyone, and I hope that's clear (especially to the moderators...). It's just demonstrating why people (PvE players) are out of line to say that to the WvW community.

 

To be clear, im not aiming my comment about attacking pve players at you. It was a generalisation of what im seeing elsewhere. Ill edit my post accordingly

[Okami Amaterasu.9237]

> @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

 

> SO, when you have the audacity to call us out when we get the one insulting addition we never asked for, yeah, we're more than a little annoyed.

 

Insulting? I don't think anyone ever has been saying we don't have a right to ask for other things in WvW, such as new borderlands maps, performance updates, etc., only that the spontaneous disapproval of a new feature no one has yet had hands-on experience with seemed to be rash and reactionary.

 

> PvE players, this isn't your fight, and we never asked for mounts. This isn't our content, it's Yours.

 

It's anybody's content who bought PoF, veteran player or new player. Sure it isn't what you were hoping for, but to call it "just PvErs' content" isn't really helpful. Until this Friday when they show it off on the livestream nobody knows kitten, so let's all see it and then try it out first before deciding if it was a good change to WvW or not. If it was "totally not", then you can rightfully say Arenanet wasted their resources on something nobody asked for (even though some people Have been asking for Mounts in WvW since PoF launched).

[Arctisavange.7261]

> @"Clownmug.8357" said:

> Always whining about WvW being a dying game mode that never gets any attention, then when the devs want to try something new to breath life into it, they whine about that too. That seems like a hard to please audience to me.

 

Its a dying game mode not cause lack of content is main reason.

Its dying cause of years and years of horrible class balancing that has made combat unbearably frustrating.

 

Adding mounts will mess up the combat even more then it allready is. Now id be fine if anet would implant mounts with limitations that dont break the combat but if they cant do even proper class balancing after years and years being passed then yeah, good luck with mounts.

[Clownmug.8357]

> @"Arctisavange.7261" said:

> > @"Clownmug.8357" said:

> > Always whining about WvW being a dying game mode that never gets any attention, then when the devs want to try something new to breath life into it, they whine about that too. That seems like a hard to please audience to me.

>

> Its a dying game mode not cause lack of content is main reason.

> Its dying cause of years and years of horrible class balancing that has made combat unbearably frustrating.

>

> Adding mounts will mess up the combat even more then it allready is. Now id be fine if anet would implant mounts with limitations that dont break the combat but if they cant do even proper class balancing after years and years being passed then yeah, good luck with mounts.

 

Yes, profession balance has been hurting the game for awhile but the people that work on WvW have little input on that. They're trying their best to make improvements within the area of the game they control, so maybe the players should try things out first before assuming the worst.

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @"Clownmug.8357" said:

> > @"Arctisavange.7261" said:

> > > @"Clownmug.8357" said:

> > > Always whining about WvW being a dying game mode that never gets any attention, then when the devs want to try something new to breath life into it, they whine about that too. That seems like a hard to please audience to me.

> >

> > Its a dying game mode not cause lack of content is main reason.

> > Its dying cause of years and years of horrible class balancing that has made combat unbearably frustrating.

> >

> > Adding mounts will mess up the combat even more then it allready is. Now id be fine if anet would implant mounts with limitations that dont break the combat but if they cant do even proper class balancing after years and years being passed then yeah, good luck with mounts.

>

> Yes, profession balance has been hurting the game for awhile but the people that work on WvW have little input on that. They're trying their best to make improvements within the area of the game they control, so maybe the players should try things out first before assuming the worst.

 

Like the people who beta tested DBL? Who’s concerns took over 12 months to finally fix?

 

Or the 6 months it took to fix inherent issues with being able to glide into enemy structures bypassing walls and gates? Despite videos and reports?

 

Or the 4-6 months it took to nerf Ghost thief because of all of the complaints? Oh yeah, that changed because of the soloing of a raid boss.

 

We don’t have a choice but to ‘wait and see’

 

We’d like that ‘wait’ part after ‘see’ing to be a little shorter.

 

[MUDse.7623]

> @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> This is quite irritating. PvE players come into WvW threads as the Anet Defense Force, and start pointing fingers at veteran WvW players who are rightfully upset about the addition of mounts.

why do you assume that people who are not upset about mounts are PvE players?

what does make someone in your eyes a WvW player?

 

[ProverbsofHell.2307]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > This is quite irritating. PvE players come into WvW threads as the Anet Defense Force, and start pointing fingers at veteran WvW players who are rightfully upset about the addition of mounts.

> why do you assume that people who are not upset about mounts are PvE players?

> what does make someone in your eyes a WvW player?

>

 

Because someone happy about the mount don't understand properly how it woud affect the game mode. Are you a WvW player? Whats your rank?

[MUDse.7623]

> @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > This is quite irritating. PvE players come into WvW threads as the Anet Defense Force, and start pointing fingers at veteran WvW players who are rightfully upset about the addition of mounts.

> > why do you assume that people who are not upset about mounts are PvE players?

> > what does make someone in your eyes a WvW player?

> >

>

> Because someone happy about the mount don't understand properly how it woud affect the game mode. Are you a WvW player? Whats your rank?

6102, that high enough to qualify?

 

[ProverbsofHell.2307]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > > This is quite irritating. PvE players come into WvW threads as the Anet Defense Force, and start pointing fingers at veteran WvW players who are rightfully upset about the addition of mounts.

> > > why do you assume that people who are not upset about mounts are PvE players?

> > > what does make someone in your eyes a WvW player?

> > >

> >

> > Because someone happy about the mount don't understand properly how it woud affect the game mode. Are you a WvW player? Whats your rank?

> 6102, that high enough to qualify?

>

 

And you think this is a good change why? Why do none of the things I listed matter to you?

[MUDse.7623]

> @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > > > This is quite irritating. PvE players come into WvW threads as the Anet Defense Force, and start pointing fingers at veteran WvW players who are rightfully upset about the addition of mounts.

> > > > why do you assume that people who are not upset about mounts are PvE players?

> > > > what does make someone in your eyes a WvW player?

> > > >

> > >

> > > Because someone happy about the mount don't understand properly how it woud affect the game mode. Are you a WvW player? Whats your rank?

> > 6102, that high enough to qualify?

> >

>

> And you think this is a good change why? Why do none of the things I listed matter to you?

 

that you have listed where?

[L A T I O N.8923]

> @"derd.6413" said:

> wvw'ers are being unreasonable and pve'ers don't know what they're talking about while i sit here enjoying everybody going REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE at each other.

 

Here have some popcorn

[derd.6413]

> @"L A T I O N.8923" said:

> > @"derd.6413" said:

> > wvw'ers are being unreasonable and pve'ers don't know what they're talking about while i sit here enjoying everybody going REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE at each other.

>

> Here have some popcorn

 

thx m80

[ProverbsofHell.2307]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > > > > This is quite irritating. PvE players come into WvW threads as the Anet Defense Force, and start pointing fingers at veteran WvW players who are rightfully upset about the addition of mounts.

> > > > > why do you assume that people who are not upset about mounts are PvE players?

> > > > > what does make someone in your eyes a WvW player?

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Because someone happy about the mount don't understand properly how it woud affect the game mode. Are you a WvW player? Whats your rank?

> > > 6102, that high enough to qualify?

> > >

> >

> > And you think this is a good change why? Why do none of the things I listed matter to you?

>

> that you have listed where?

 

My mistake, I was confused by a different thread I made where I listed the reasons:

"Mounts will severely disrupt the balance of mobility in WvW. They will completely change the capture/defense game speed. They will cause drastically increased lag and fps issues in a game mode already plagued by them."

[MUDse.7623]

> @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > > > > > This is quite irritating. PvE players come into WvW threads as the Anet Defense Force, and start pointing fingers at veteran WvW players who are rightfully upset about the addition of mounts.

> > > > > > why do you assume that people who are not upset about mounts are PvE players?

> > > > > > what does make someone in your eyes a WvW player?

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Because someone happy about the mount don't understand properly how it woud affect the game mode. Are you a WvW player? Whats your rank?

> > > > 6102, that high enough to qualify?

> > > >

> > >

> > > And you think this is a good change why? Why do none of the things I listed matter to you?

> >

> > that you have listed where?

>

> My mistake, I was confused by a different thread I made where I listed the reasons:

> "Mounts will severely disrupt the balance of mobility in WvW. They will completely change the capture/defense game speed. They will cause drastically increased lag and fps issues in a game mode already plagued by them."

 

what balance of mobility do you speak of?

i mean i have seen now several people claiming that this mount will enable 'slow' roamers, yet once in the fight the necro will still get kited like before. nothing changed there. yes the necro can now better avoid being ganked by a larger group - so what?

the only 'issue' i see is that it will be difficult to run away from a larger foce while roaming as you will have some people on mount still chasing you. but how is that different than if they are now on a mobile profession aswell and out of combat? same effect, mobility is already not the tool to disengage, stealth is.

 

they will change the speed of capture/defense: yes in a way that it is overall less travel time , more action. so i dont really see what exactly it is you have an issue here.

 

i rarely have lag/fps issues, but that is because i rarely blob and dont play much on ebg. but besides that, how can you already know how much it will affect the performance? id say wait and see about that.

[Roksiel.6123]

I for one will be waiting for all the PVE players who say what a good thing this is to come to WvW and then stay there for more than a couple of days; but we all know that's not gonna happen, heh.

[ProverbsofHell.2307]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > > > > > > This is quite irritating. PvE players come into WvW threads as the Anet Defense Force, and start pointing fingers at veteran WvW players who are rightfully upset about the addition of mounts.

> > > > > > > why do you assume that people who are not upset about mounts are PvE players?

> > > > > > > what does make someone in your eyes a WvW player?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Because someone happy about the mount don't understand properly how it woud affect the game mode. Are you a WvW player? Whats your rank?

> > > > > 6102, that high enough to qualify?

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > And you think this is a good change why? Why do none of the things I listed matter to you?

> > >

> > > that you have listed where?

> >

> > My mistake, I was confused by a different thread I made where I listed the reasons:

> > "Mounts will severely disrupt the balance of mobility in WvW. They will completely change the capture/defense game speed. They will cause drastically increased lag and fps issues in a game mode already plagued by them."

>

> what balance of mobility do you speak of?

> i mean i have seen now several people claiming that this mount will enable 'slow' roamers, yet once in the fight the necro will still get kited like before. nothing changed there. yes the necro can now better avoid being ganked by a larger group - so what?

> the only 'issue' i see is that it will be difficult to run away from a larger foce while roaming as you will have some people on mount still chasing you. but how is that different than if they are now on a mobile profession aswell and out of combat? same effect, mobility is already not the tool to disengage, stealth is.

>

> they will change the speed of capture/defense: yes in a way that it is overall less travel time , more action. so i dont really see what exactly it is you have an issue here.

>

> i rarely have lag/fps issues, but that is because i rarely blob and dont play much on ebg. but besides that, how can you already know how much it will affect the performance? id say wait and see about that.

 

I mean there is a hierarchy of mobility which will be destroyed when mounts are added. Despite what you said, mobility is a good way to disengage and for some builds it's the only way to "sustain". But you're right, after mounts, stealth will be the only real way to disengage.

 

The lag ok, we can wait and see. But it's already barely playable in threeway fights, even people with great CPUs have said they get fps and lag issues, so I don't see how it's going to make no difference. Also "it doesn't affect me" isn't a very good argument.

 

lastly, it will be more than just the speed of capture/defense despite what I said. Rams will become a thing of the past as we all mount-chainpull the door opening t3 structures in record time. Blob fights will devolve into everyone synchronising veil and mount engage with cavalier rune for instant blob destruction with no profession skills needed.

[Kylden Ar.3724]

I've been playing WvW, in the same world, since the last WvW tournament. I havoc and scout and very rarely command.

 

I consider myself a WvW player, and agree 100% that they are, by and large, whiney little kittens.

 

They are also, quite frankly, blind as to how ANet works.

 

Look at sheer forum numbers. Regular discussion is almost 5x as active as WvW. In part because there is more PvE players overall than WvW, and also because WvW players here drive people away with their kitten toxicity.

 

These WvW "vets" claim they know everything the mode needs. Yet if you boil down everything they want, WvW would be an empty white square with weekly balance passes everytime the tryhard commanders ran into something that would bust up the zerg meta.

 

But here is the thing they will not admit. They don't know real numbers, and they never will. Only ANet has those. The Discords and Teamspeaks will **never** give full numbers because many casual and even regular WvW players will never log into them due to that toxicity mentioned above. Many players never even turn on team or map chat. TACO pretty much runs in only guild chat, and only 2 of us (myself and @"Teon.5168" ) __ever__ post here. The rest won't bother with the attitude and closed mindedness.

 

Anybody that didn't know that mounts would make their way to WvW the second PoF was announced was willfully blind or a fool. It's a selling point of the Xpac. It sells gems for mount skins. It was inevitable as the heat death of the universe.

 

So all the whiners and complainers, put up or shut up. Either leave your "ded game" or stop complaining about something that anyone paying attention knew was coming.

 

But for the love of the six... er, five, stop acting like you own the mode. You don't. Everyone that plays does, including the vast majority that never posts here __because of your attitudes.__

[Sigmoid.7082]

> @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > > > > > > > This is quite irritating. PvE players come into WvW threads as the Anet Defense Force, and start pointing fingers at veteran WvW players who are rightfully upset about the addition of mounts.

> > > > > > > > why do you assume that people who are not upset about mounts are PvE players?

> > > > > > > > what does make someone in your eyes a WvW player?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Because someone happy about the mount don't understand properly how it woud affect the game mode. Are you a WvW player? Whats your rank?

> > > > > > 6102, that high enough to qualify?

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > And you think this is a good change why? Why do none of the things I listed matter to you?

> > > >

> > > > that you have listed where?

> > >

> > > My mistake, I was confused by a different thread I made where I listed the reasons:

> > > "Mounts will severely disrupt the balance of mobility in WvW. They will completely change the capture/defense game speed. They will cause drastically increased lag and fps issues in a game mode already plagued by them."

> >

> > what balance of mobility do you speak of?

> > i mean i have seen now several people claiming that this mount will enable 'slow' roamers, yet once in the fight the necro will still get kited like before. nothing changed there. yes the necro can now better avoid being ganked by a larger group - so what?

> > the only 'issue' i see is that it will be difficult to run away from a larger foce while roaming as you will have some people on mount still chasing you. but how is that different than if they are now on a mobile profession aswell and out of combat? same effect, mobility is already not the tool to disengage, stealth is.

> >

> > they will change the speed of capture/defense: yes in a way that it is overall less travel time , more action. so i dont really see what exactly it is you have an issue here.

> >

> > i rarely have lag/fps issues, but that is because i rarely blob and dont play much on ebg. but besides that, how can you already know how much it will affect the performance? id say wait and see about that.

>

> I mean there is a hierarchy of mobility which will be destroyed when mounts are added. Despite what you said, mobility is a good way to disengage and for some builds it's the only way to "sustain". But you're right, after mounts, stealth will be the only real way to disengage.

>

> The lag ok, we can wait and see. But it's already barely playable in threeway fights, even people with great CPUs have said they get fps and lag issues, so I don't see how it's going to make no difference. Also "it doesn't affect me" isn't a very good argument.

>

> lastly, it will be more than just the speed of capture/defense despite what I said. Rams will become a thing of the past as we all mount-chainpull the door opening t3 structures in record time. Blob fights will devolve into everyone synchronising veil and mount engage with cavalier rune for instant blob destruction with no profession skills needed.

 

1# You talk about disengaging but you can't mount in combat?

 

3# We don't know if the skill has rules, i.e only X number can rope a gate. Also we don't know it's skills strength so to say it will replace rams and profession skills is an exaggeration.

 

I understand the premises of this topic but you're guilty of exactly what people crowd are counter complaining about. Sky is falling, exaggeration, liberal use of the word we ,and segregation of "you must not play "our" game mode" to try to discredit someone. All without knowing the finer details of how things work. If we knew the exact numbers and they are bad then fine and more may even agree with the complaints but kicking up such a huge fuss when not knowing everything is what is understandably grinding a lot of people.

[oOStaticOo.9467]

All I know is that WvW'ers are SO hard to please!

[Jura.2170]

> @"Kylden Ar.3724" said:

> Many players never even turn on team or map chat. TACO pretty much runs in only guild chat

 

Please tell us more about your guild. Is it a fight guild? Roaming? ppt?

 

Does anyone in your guild watch for scout calls?

[Heibi.4251]

With a WvW rank of around 6721, nearing the Ultimate Dominator title(81%)(only thing left to achieve), 32,000+ achievement points, and 15,000+ hours of play in PVE and WVW I can give you both a PVE players perspective and WVW players perspective.

 

PVE player perspective - Posts like the OP are why PVE players view WvW exclusive players with such negativity. Whenever PVE focused players decide they want to try out WvW to see if they'll like it they are greeted with "Go away, PVE scrub(or worse language)", "Get out of our content PVE(expletive)" and much more. They want to try to play and enjoy WvW but are often driven out by players with similar views to the OP. Something that would get WvW more attention would be if MORE players dedicated their time to it. Thus, from a PVEr perspective no matter what is offered to players WvWers they aren't satisfied. WvW got lots of attention in the HoT release with the Desert BLs(I know the problems and complaints here - no need to rehash it) and many a WvWer rage quit. Gliding was added and WvW players rage quit. WvW got Legendary Armor access which brought many PVErs due to the difficulty in obtaining from RAIDs. Those PVErs discovered that it would take a long time and some stuck it out and stayed after they began to understand WvW - while others were greeted with the usual above negative comments and left. Every time something new is added to WvW all that PVE players see are negative whining comments and threats or rage quitting from WvW players. It's no wonder they have this view of "WvW players being so hard to please." Oh, on a final note: When WvW players say "I'm out", "Bye bye GW2" it sure makes it look like WvW is a dying mode to PVE players.

 

WvW player perspective - As a player with lots of time in WvW and a commander of both guild oriented commanding and pug commanding I see it every time there is an attempt by ANeT to add and/or improve the WvW experience. Each time, as I listed in the PVE section, the most vocal of WvW players come out and scream that it will ruin WvW. While Legendary armor probably didn't do that(heck, you can adjust your builds easier to the changing metas) the main complaint was the time required and the pip'ing. And ANeT made some adjustments to help lesser ranked players. Gliding was to have ruined WvW. Instead, it has made it more challenging in some ways and fun in others. I love sitting below the glide path on a balista or on a ranger and knocking peeps out of the sky to their untimely bag donation. And with ANeT's limits on zone you own only flying and changes of the positioning on some towers to fix zombie bird mode gliding has had little negative impact overall. I'd love for ANeT to do better balancing and separate the modes, which they have done in a lot of recent balance patches. So we know they are at least paying some attention.

 

As for mounts - I didn't want the current mounts as they exist now in WvW. Bunnies can hop over walls, Griffons could fly across the map to swiftly, Jackals had the disappearing phase shift, Raptors had a CC from hell, and Roller Beetles are just too fast on the ground. For the mount they settled on and actually created, with WvW in mind I might add, I'm reserving judgement until I see it in use and the fixes we know will come. It looks like they put a lot of thought into it instead of making it a generic get from here to there mount. Remember, you can't mount up in combat and mounts can be easily killed in PVE. Also, your stats don't matter on a mount and you can't use your skills. So I'm going to give it a chance and even welcome PVE players hoping to grab a few more recruits into WvW so ANeT will pay attention to the WvW game mode a little more.

[TheGrimm.5624]

I can't recall any changes made in WvW that weren't meet with some doom and gloom. Will have to ponder that a bit, but right now, nothing is jumping out at me. That said across most of the forum areas most changes are questioned, but the biggest areas are in WvW and PvP. I can think of some that were mostly positive but that was in areas like expanding collections. Considering that track record, yes this subforum is typically doom and gloom for changes, especially before they are tried. Again not saying I am for or against mounts since haven't tried the concept but the track record here is worth calling to task so will have to disagree with you.