Multicolorhipster.9751 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 A lot of people have suggested that the upcoming balance patch looks relatively devoid of meaningful change. I think that's most evident in the "changes" to Warrior. I'm left wondering if this is really it? Was it really just a Banner rework for the most part? Not going to touch rampage or all the damage multipliers stacking? Not going to bring back defense? If that's true, i've got a few things to consider. Anyone excited about the banner changes should look away, I don't want to be a buzzkill. •Adding the option to pick up banners doesn't really constitute as a rework. They're still just stationary stat boosts. •Reducing the CD still won't have banners see much use in PvP. 80 or even 20 seconds for a +100 stationary stat boost is still way too much for what the skills offer. •Since banners have had the stat-gain nerfed from base +170 to base +100 the buff to the discipline trait seems sort of counterproductive. Unless the intention was to change nothing at all, while making it look like something was altered; in which case, touché. Still, I definitely don't think the change is interesting enough to tempt anyone to consider taking it over Brawler's Recovery or Destruction of the Empowered. •The Battle Standard changes in particular seem... odd? Definitely not enticing enough to consider taking it over Rampage when Rampage can be used for the exact same thing at half the cooldown and cast-time even if you pick up the battle standard. Imagine the Daredevil elite or Signet of Mercy(Only, as an elite skill) but with 120-180 second cooldowns. That is how a warrior do. I mean, as a warrior main i'm totally cool with it if there's no changes to be made to warrior in PvP, but to me; this feels like a little bit of a cop out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bashi.8902 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Winds of Disenchantment seems really interresting at least. Warrior will still be ele tier tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phokus.8934 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Battle Standard new pvp and wvw meta elite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovark.2514 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Yes, and even as a warrior main, I am very disappointed that Rampage didn't get a nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quadox.7834 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 I don't know anything about warrior, but Battle Standard looks interesting on 120 sec cooldown (i presume). But I guess rampage is too strong to switch out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanAlcedo.3281 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 The warrior changes are wierd. Warrior has so many problems but we only get a Banner Rework and a change to one skill. Sad days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbelch.9028 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 I wish there were a few changes to make Warrior more competitive or team oriented in the meta, and maybe the banner update, especially with the stomp banner, will help. Time will tell. I think nerfing mirage axe was a good start, as that was a hard counter to many SpB builds. I'm in favor of big picture balancing. If they tone most classes down, but feel warrior will perform well in the "toned down" meta, then I understand them making few changes. (This is just an example, I'm not saying this will happen.) Just a waiting game now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancho.8750 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 I believe the stomp banner is more in line with WvW then with SPvp for one warrior is not great in team fights and most builds revolve around side nodes and roaming around picking 1v1 and 2v2s, while in WvW res/stomp banner could turn the zerg fight around. And also it is kinda WvW patch with the mount and all if you think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multicolorhipster.9751 Posted February 28, 2019 Author Share Posted February 28, 2019 > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > I wish there were a few changes to make Warrior more competitive or team oriented in the meta, and maybe the banner update, especially with the stomp banner, will help. Time will tell. I think nerfing mirage axe was a good start, as that was a hard counter to many SpB builds. > > I'm in favor of big picture balancing. If they tone most classes down, but feel warrior will perform well in the "toned down" meta, then I understand them making few changes. (This is just an example, I'm not saying this will happen.) > Ikr? Spellbreaker seemed to be designed to be more team oriented, but now it's devolved into stacking damage modifiers to stand a chance at winning side-nodes. I think you're right though. Now that some of the other classes are getting toned down, warrior probably will do better as a result. I have an eerie feeling that Soulbeast is going to do Warrior's job still, and far better at that. > @"phokus.8934" said: > Battle Standard new pvp and wvw meta elite. > @"Vancho.8750" said: > I believe the stomp banner is more in line with WvW then with SPvp for one warrior is not great in team fights and most builds revolve around side nodes and roaming around picking 1v1 and 2v2s, while in WvW res/stomp banner could turn the zerg fight around. And also it is kinda WvW patch with the mount and all if you think about it. > @"Bashi.8902" said: > Winds of Disenchantment seems really interresting at least. Warrior will still be ele tier tho. Wouldn't be surprised if Battle Standard became the new WvW meta, and I definitely think this patch was more WvW and PvE oriented; though, I don't play either very often so i'm not the best judge there. Personally I found the winds changes to be a little silly. I didn't mention it, but... a 5 second interruptable channel? In PvP at least, where Warrior has little to no access to stability, I sort of feel like that's just going to be broken everytime while putting you out of the fight for 5 seconds and/or in a super vulnerable position otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortus.6175 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 > @"Bashi.8902" said: > Winds of Disenchantment seems really interresting at least. Warrior will still be ele tier tho. No, im sorry, but warrior are still pretty good, and if anything, quiiiite well. Maybe not soulbeast/holo good (they are outliers), but they are in the next tier. Eles are 2-3 tiers below that. Anyways, I think warrior were a victim of mirage/soulbeasts/holo meta, which is now soulbeast/holo probably, although GS spellbreaker was a terror for any non-holo/soulbeast/mirage builds out there. People dont realize that certain builds tend to become meta-checks, and warriors are actually one of those, where if you can't burst them quick enough after you burst them past stances and shield and GS 3, and at the same time survive their several CC into rampage once you blow stunbreakers, then you could not defend home. Many builds were pushed away because of it. I do think they need something else in teamfights other than rampage-focusing the support, but I dont think Anet can do anything about it as long as they remain one of the strongest duelists and side noder in the game. Something has got to give. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancho.8750 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 What annoys me is that spellbreaker should be the one winning the side node vs holo and soulbeast by the intent of their design, while both of these have constant supply of all the boons Sb should probably be able to remove them, but as it is now the number of boons is too much and the number removed is too negligible. The issue is if its increased too much then it become way too oppressive vs the rest of the classes. I believe that the 3rd strike of dagger should remove 1 boon like mesmer sword with increased cast time to 1/2 for it ( also why does mesmer get all the cool stuff?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.5684 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 > @"Vancho.8750" said: > What annoys me is that spellbreaker should be the one winning the side node vs holo and soulbeast by the intent of their design, while both of these have constant supply of all the boons Sb should probably be able to remove them, but as it is now the number of boons is too much and the number removed is too negligible. The issue is if its increased too much then it become way too oppressive vs the rest of the classes. I believe that the 3rd strike of dagger should remove 1 boon like mesmer sword with increased cast time to 1/2 for it ( also why does mesmer get all the cool stuff?). Or just reduce the boon stacking on soul beast and holo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucentfir.7430 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 I really hope this isn't all the warrior changes, and rather the whole thing is a preview of what's coming, but I doubt there's more then that. Was really looking forward to seeing some shake up changes to make Berserker the juggernaut damage monster it's supposed to identify as or improvement on Spllbreakers's anti boon niche. Like they could have nerfed a bit of Attacker's insight but merge Loss Aversion with Dispelling force and use PVE damage values. Move down Enchantment Collapse and make a GM that makes burst skills apply Disenchantment effect. :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackTruth.6813 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 It depends on what the next big evil will be. Tho I'm wondering if the mirage dodge nerf will be enough in all honesty. I'm assuming Soulbeast and Guard are still going to be strong, tho I'm wondering what new evils are going to come out. Tho reducing the CD on battle standard would be interesting too, in it's current state there is no point in picking that over rampage. Maybe make it 120 seconds so people might find a way to make it work. But otherwise, I'll be happy having no changes if all the other evils get gutted, personally. Maybe a small buff on Arms, I'll be happy too. Nerf to balance was always the answer to make Warrior tolerable to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarkysek.1085 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Spellbreaker is balanced atm, there are no changes required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpretor.3091 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Regarding Spvp: Spellbreaker will be in a good spot after the patch. Nothing will change build wise, I don’t think taking banner, especially over Rampage, will be worth... but who knows how much dmg the banner will do? Mirage was the worst hard counter for Spellbreaker and now that their burst is nerfed and their sustainability was hit with the Mirage Cloak nerf, Warriors will be able to have more oppurtunities to catch a Mirage with their CC combos. Soulbeast and Holo are also beatable with Spellbreaker as well. If you play the str/disp/spellbreaker spec with Dagger and Magebane thether and play boonstrip with your F1 skill and sigils you should have a (small) window to burst down a Soulbeast after their defensive CDs are over (with Rampage). Regarding Spellbreaker in ‘competitive’ play and tournament PvP: Who knows? Im speculating that we are going see a huge meta shift, especially with the buffs to Tempest support and the nerfs to burst classes such as Power Chrono and Core Guardian. With the introduction of a tankier, less bursty meta, the classes that have the most boon strip might become even larger influencers of games. Especially if teams start bringing two support classes into sPvP matches. Warriors being able to boonstrip and then do moderately high damage and disruption are going to be more valuable than just raw damage with so much protection and regen that’s going to be flying around. It’s plausable that you could see teams bringing Warriors over Revenants to team fights simply for their single target boon-strip, even though Rev outdamages Warrior. Also as side notes to this, the new Banner ability killing downed players will also directly counter Firebrand signet which is absolutely huge, not to mention a warrior’s condition removal potential with Shake it Off. These two things make them an even bigger potential contender in a prominent team fighting meta. I see possible future team comps like: Firebrand/Scourge/Spellbreaker/Soulbeast/Rev Or Firebrand/Scourge/Tempest/ Warrior/ Soulbeast? Teams might switch to comps that rely on winning prolonged team fights rather than then previous meta which relied heavily on bursting down Scourges and plusing 1v1 Mirages and Soulbeasts on side nodes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortus.6175 Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 > @"Interpretor.3091" said: - I too think spellbreakers are already fine and will be more than fine after patch, if anything, back to annoying far capper who takes several people or long time to take them. Although the buffs to tempest are a nice start, they are still very far from viable, my only hope is that by having mirage a little less oppressive, other builds that wouldnt have showed might appear and completely shake the meta. I would like to see holos and soulbeasts to have less sustain, and I would like spellbreakers GS #3 to get Ride the Lighting treatment (to prevent them from constantly using that skill to escape, or mindlessly use it constantly, specially when you manage to dodge it, just to come back shortly and take nearly if not more than half your health with one spin). Lets wait and see how everything pans out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rettan.9603 Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 > @"Fortus.6175" said: > I too think spellbreakers are already fine and will be more than fine after patch, > That's my problem with the patch: Spellbreaker being okay is no reason to don't make any changes. Tactics and Arms are still useless and the whole Berkerser is trash-tier :-( Don't touch Spellbreaker, Strength, Discipline and Defense would be okay, but any change to the other lines looks much better then doing nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancho.8750 Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 Warriors GS3 not spellbreaker GS3, you can already have better GS bundle with better whirl wind on ele. The issue i see with ele is that it is really hard to pick up and really hard to master , the piano play and not seeing the cd is makes it hard for me to just play it. It has so many options to play it is like Swiss army knife but it requires too much effort to pull off staff ele is good for team fight but you don't need one when you have necro on your team. Look at engi it had similar issues till they made holosmith with its ridiculously overloaded spammy kit with bonus of all the options from base engineer it is really easy to be effective with even if you don't play it much. I wish warrior had options for support build, team fight build but it is pretty stuck in the side node as duelist roamer. Core and spellbreaker play the same berserker before the nerfs had some team fight potential with arc divider or longbow maybe some buffs on berserker for team fight for sustain and damage only vs multiple people will be cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackTruth.6813 Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 Yeah Arms just needs a small push and elite banner needs a cd reduction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
everyman.4375 Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 Mirage getting nerfed is a change to warrior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multicolorhipster.9751 Posted March 3, 2019 Author Share Posted March 3, 2019 > @"everyman.4375" said: > Mirage getting nerfed is a change to warrior. It will definitely do better as a result. It has changed only in that sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralkuth.1456 Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 [banner Bunker Warrior](http://intothemists.com/guides/1004-banner_bunker_warrior "Banner Bunker Warrior") was actually good for a little while in Core. Anyone remember the Mercy Rune cheese? You can actually rez someone out from under a normal stomp without interrupts because of the Tactics minor 10% + Rune 20% revive speed, and you get 400 (trait) + 400 (rune) toughness while reviving. It means that you can actually eat a Well of Suffering + Dagger auto from a Power Necro and be at full health. With proper dodging and use of Mace and Shield, you can 1v2 indefinitely thanks to the insane raw sustain. Good Condi Necros are a problem though. But then the Healing Signet nerf came through along with the removal of the tanky stat amulets. Reducing Warbanner CD sounds nice, but as of now we don't have the stat combination (the horrors of bunker meta?) nor the traits to make a Bunker Warrior able to survive the slugfest in 3v3s and above, it seems. But what do I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rettan.9603 Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 > @"Ralkuth.1456" said: > [banner Bunker Warrior](http://intothemists.com/guides/1004-banner_bunker_warrior "Banner Bunker Warrior") Wow, when I look back to this traits i remember how balance should be in GW2. One significant effect per trait (or skill)... looks manageable. (Btw. maybe Grim Dawn is a bad example because it is a PvE-only game, but this game brings dozens of effects per skill or trait and is still balanced because you can't use all of them at the same time... works too.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krieger.4712 Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 > @"Rettan.9603" said: > > @"Fortus.6175" said: > > I too think spellbreakers are already fine and will be more than fine after patch, > > > > That's my problem with the patch: Spellbreaker being okay is no reason to don't make any changes. > Tactics and Arms are still useless and **the whole Berkerser is trash-tier** :-( > Don't touch Spellbreaker, Strength, Discipline and Defense would be okay, but any change to the other lines looks much better then doing nothing. Exactly. Please Anet, do SOMETHING with Berserker. It's been years and countless patches of nothing for us, save for the occasional nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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