Ex-player who sometimes wants to return's thoughts on why I don't play GW2

[TexZero.7910]

> @"Gyousa.5609" said:

> You may be right in saying I disagree/do not understand it. Personally, I see no way something can be considered balanced when a large majority of options available to a player are simply far below viability

 

Let me just ask you a simple question...

Why would you take the wrong tool for the job ?

 

Because that's what you're ultimately complaining about when it comes to game balance. Most weapons have areas where they excel, in PvE CC/Utility are less relevant. On the flip-side PvP/WvW CC/Utility can and will determine who lives and dies. Hammer Guard has been a staple of both PvP and WvW for quite a while just to showcase this.

 

Also, if your PC is having "heating" issues that's not likely to be a game problem and you should probably open your case up and check your fans/cooling systems/thermal applications.

 

[Gyousa.5609]

> @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > @"Gyousa.5609" said:

> > You may be right in saying I disagree/do not understand it. Personally, I see no way something can be considered balanced when a large majority of options available to a player are simply far below viability

>

> Let me just ask you a simple question...

> Why would you take the wrong tool for the job ?

>

> Because that's what you're ultimately complaining about when it comes to game balance. Most weapons have areas where they excel, in PvE CC/Utility are less relevant. On the flip-side PvP/WvW CC/Utility can and will determine who lives and dies. Hammer Guard has been a staple of both PvP and WvW for quite a while just to showcase this.

>

> Also, if your PC is having "heating" issues that's not likely to be a game problem and you should probably open your case up and check your fans/cooling systems/thermal applications.

>

 

I don't think that's quite the right analogy, but I get your point. My response is the same though. Every weapon does damage, and the weapons which have higher DPS than others still have utility. The power budget for each ability doesn't seem to add up.

 

And that is exactly my point, ANet has different values for PvP and PvE, so then why aren't they appropriately tuned? Utility and CC means less in PvE, so the power budget should be more open for damage because those things are weighted less.

 

Also, GW2 is known to have performance and optimisation issues and is a very common complaint about the game. I've done everything short of ordering new parts and it's only GW2 (and Civ4) I have this problem in.

[ArchonWing.9480]

Ranged weapons will never be good in fractals simply because the content doesn't let you plink from 1200 range away, and also how boons work.

 

That being said, Longbow is trash for guardian. Nobody has told OP what Longbow is for, because it's good for nothing. That's really not a thing to ditch a game over though... I mean every other weapon they have is used somewhere.

 

But thanks OP. I remember what to use my ascended salvage kit on....

[Voltekka.2375]

DH use longbow in wvw while roaming. I assure you, it is quite a strong weapon. As for hammer, it used to be meta in wvw. Some still use it.

[Gyousa.5609]

> @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> DH use longbow in wvw while roaming. I assure you, it is quite a strong weapon. As for hammer, it used to be meta in wvw. Some still use it.

 

I had a lot of fun with Longbow in WvW, but I didn't spend a lot of time there. Also, with a different set of numbers to balance between PvP and PvE, there's no reason why a weapon should be exclusive to this one aspect of the game.

[ArchonWing.9480]

> @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> DH use longbow in wvw while roaming. I assure you, it is quite a strong weapon. As for hammer, it used to be meta in wvw. Some still use it.

 

Oh right, that's still a thing. I rarely see it , but it probably will once the buff comes in.

[kasoki.5180]

First of all, Hammer is barely a viable weapon for guardian, and definitely wont be one after tuesday. Its skill set is outdated, and ArenaNet knows this. I don't remember when was the last time I have seen someone using it beside HappyNo occasionally making a video on how it can still be used. Game evolved, but hammer didn't and it fell out of favour. That doesn't mean that its the most terrible, worst thing out there. But there are reasons why it isn't used.

 

Even though I disagree with some things said, certain things very much hit home so I have to agree with OP on certain points. Most notably on the sentiment/implication that philosophy behind guardian skill design is outdated and is victim of rigid meta. This is not a uniquely guardian problem, but guardian is a good example to demonstrate what i feel is outdated approach to professions which hurts certain professions.

Guard is one of the professions whose hybrid nature is one of the most obvious. Everything on guardian is essentially split into three versions of the same thing. Sometimes into four in order to separate power from condi. Downside of this design is that guardian has one of the most uninteresting game styles. There are no cool tricks on guardian's skill list. Almost everything you do is "hit X for Y". There is no nuance to guardians skillset or any particular depth that would allow for some intricate play style. There is no special performance to skills. Everything is simplistic and "raw", yet very diverse in its consequence. Guardians selling point is that its simplistic and straight forward, but has access to dps-heal-tank skills at the same time. But game far outgrew state where this potential could be viable, if it was ever even viable to begin with.

 

Also, guardians utility skills of the same type have very little in common. They are so diverse in effects that only thing they have in common is that those golden letters tell us they belong into the same category. To be fair, this problem is not unique to guard, many professions have it, but here its extremely visible. This has led to some weird trait-skill synergy. For example, Eternal Armory is irrelevant for 3/4 of Spirit Weapons, and gives marginal effects to other 1/4. Perfect inscription is usable on only one signet. Nobody even knows or cares what is the name of consecrations trait. Additionally, this "everything at the same time" philosophy of guardian has also led to things like shouts being basically removed from the profession because of firebrand. In my opinion guardian needs splitting of utility skill traits among the trait lines so you can modify utility skills not as a general category but for specific play styles. Something similar to traits relating to virtues, symbols or healing skills.

 

Problem with all of this is that this isn't a game of jacks of all trades. Yes, there are hybrids in the mix, but there is no condi-power-heal-tank hybrid in the mix. You select what you want to do, and then you optimize your kit for that role. From gear and weapons to food and skills. You specialize for a role that you will take in group composition. But you do that not only based on what you have to offer, but also on what others have to offer. And, this is the real problem here IMO. Game design lead us to the situation where druid and chrono are so much preferred that vaaaast majority of guardians are pushed into purely dps roles. Which essentially renders big portion of entire guardian kit useless and without even potential usage in the future. Unfortunate reality for many players is that they have never really experience playing a guardian, rather they are forced to play attackadin.

 

(Note: I am not trying to say that guardian is broken, weak or anything like that. Its a great professions. But I think its frustrating that for many reasons there is discrepancy between what it wants to be and what the game allows it to be. And this problem is not unique to guardian. Note 2: I am mostly talking from PvE perspective)

[Vayne.8563]

I understand what you're saying OP, but I don't agree with your notion of what balance is or should be. Different weapons should be good at different things. If you don't like the weapon that's good at the thing you need the most, than you don't like the class even if you think you do. Because that's the actual class design. What you're asking for is for Anet to redesign the class. Which would maybe make the game better for you and worse for someone else. You're suffering from the pigeonhole conundrum.

 

I want to play only this class.

I want to play this class in end game content.

I want to play this specific weapon in end game content.

I want to be able to pug this with complete strangers who will accept my choices.

 

Because none of these criteria are really out of your control, you're not happy with the game and I'm not sure why it should matter to anyone because on the surface of it, your request isn't reasonable. It's like you're asking for the class to fit your personal definition of balance or you're asking for the way balance is done in the game to be changed based on your definition of what balance should be. I have a different definition of balance.

 

I believe all weapons should have strengths and weaknesses. I believe that's necessary to keep the game interesting. We have to have choices and our choices have to matter. Sacrificing DPS for control is a choice we have to make sometimes.

 

More to the point, there are several things you can do. I don't raid and I don't pug T4 fractals. I do this with a static group, or at very least guildies who aren't going to kitten about my build. because you know, they're friends and they don'r really care. This way you can play the stuff you want, without worrying about what other people think. But yeah if you're gong to pug, some people are absolutely going to require you to run the meta.

 

You can also advertise your own group with the words non-meta, casual T4 fractals and this way anyone who comes in is not likely to complain, because you know, that's how the group is set up.

 

But my gut instinct is the kind of complaint you have will make the game worse for other people if its' fixed. The guardian, as a profession, is one that is probably one of the best in the game, in that it has roles in every single area of the game. If you don't want to play those roles, try another class. Because clearly not everything can please everyone.

[Voltekka.2375]

> @"kasoki.5180" said:

> First of all, Hammer is barely a viable weapon for guardian, and definitely wont be one after tuesday. Its skill set is outdated, and ArenaNet knows this. I don't remember when was the last time I have seen someone using it beside HappyNo occasionally making a video on how it can still be used. Game evolved, but hammer didn't and it fell out of favour. That doesn't mean that its the most terrible, worst thing out there. But there are reasons why it isn't used.

>

> Even though I disagree with some things said, certain things very much hit home so I have to agree with OP on certain points. Most notably on the sentiment/implication that philosophy behind guardian skill design is outdated and is victim of rigid meta. This is not a uniquely guardian problem, but guardian is a good example to demonstrate what i feel is outdated approach to professions which hurts certain professions.

> Guard is one of the professions whose hybrid nature is one of the most obvious. Everything on guardian is essentially split into three versions of the same thing. Sometimes into four in order to separate power from condi. Downside of this design is that guardian has one of the most uninteresting game styles. There are no cool tricks on guardian's skill list. Almost everything you do is "hit X for Y". There is no nuance to guardians skillset or any particular depth that would allow for some intricate play style. There is no special performance to skills. Everything is simplistic and "raw", yet very diverse in its consequence. Guardians selling point is that its simplistic and straight forward, but has access to dps-heal-tank skills at the same time. But game far outgrew state where this potential could be viable, if it was ever even viable to begin with.

>

> Also, guardians utility skills of the same type have very little in common. They are so diverse in effects that only thing they have in common is that those golden letters tell us they belong into the same category. To be fair, this problem is not unique to guard, many professions have it, but here its extremely visible. This has led to some weird trait-skill synergy. For example, Eternal Armory is irrelevant for 3/4 of Spirit Weapons, and gives marginal effects to other 1/4. Perfect inscription is usable on only one signet. Nobody even knows or cares what is the name of consecrations trait. Additionally, this "everything at the same time" philosophy of guardian has also led to things like shouts being basically removed from the profession because of firebrand. In my opinion guardian needs splitting of utility skill traits among the trait lines so you can modify utility skills not as a general category but for specific play styles. Something similar to traits relating to virtues, symbols or healing skills.

>

> Problem with all of this is that this isn't a game of jacks of all trades. Yes, there are hybrids in the mix, but there is no condi-power-heal-tank hybrid in the mix. You select what you want to do, and then you optimize your kit for that role. From gear and weapons to food and skills. You specialize for a role that you will take in group composition. But you do that not only based on what you have to offer, but also on what others have to offer. And, this is the real problem here IMO. Game design lead us to the situation where druid and chrono are so much preferred that vaaaast majority of guardians are pushed into purely dps roles. Which essentially renders big portion of entire guardian kit useless and without even potential usage in the future. Unfortunate reality for many players is that they have never really experience playing a guardian, rather they are forced to play attackadin.

>

> (Note: I am not trying to say that guardian is broken, weak or anything like that. Its a great professions. But I think its frustrating that for many reasons there is discrepancy between what it wants to be and what the game allows it to be. And this problem is not unique to guardian. Note 2: I am mostly talking from PvE perspective)

 

It all depends on what content you want to do, really. I mean, it is one thing to have a class suited for high fractals/raids, another for open world pve another for wvw (different builds there for roaming and zerging) . Guardian has 5 meta builds right now, for endgame content. Thats right, 5. DH dps, condi FB, condi support FB, power support FB, heal FB.

On the occasion you want to be a jack of all trades, in pve, make celestial gear. Power-condi-healing-tank, all in the same package. Dont expect to be accepted in raids, or kill things fast, but I assure you, you will have fun.

Or try wvw. Theorycraft to your heart's content, play whatever you want, make that hammer roaming core guard (people use it) smash people into oblivion.

[Scar.1793]

> @"Kam.4092" said:

> As a Guardian main, this post greatly irritates me. People look at the Guardian as the best balanced class with its weapons, traits, and skills. Your post comes off as someone being too stubborn to learn their class. What would be the point to all weapons being near equal? Also wanting to use Hammer with Longbow is a bad mix, because both are heavy area control weapons. Which is why they see more play in PvP. All weapons have a use still though, and it’s silly to refuse to Greatsword. Guardians have amazing utilities too. GW2 isn’t a game where you can just choose a weapon, and solely use it. It forces variety, and weapon swapping is probably my favorite part of the whole game. You can play how you want in open world, and not get questioned, but in group content be the best you can be, and don’t cripple the group. Especially in T4 Fractals, and Raids. Its rude to be that one guy that makes runs take longer due to wanting to use inferior setups. You’re playing an MMO sadly with group content that goes way more smoothly when having proper setups. Metas will always be a thing in any game with group content.

>

> I agree with your optimization comment, and pretty much everything else.

>

> You can play how you want to in open world :)

 

I find your comment quite rude, especially the “you don’t want to learn your class” part, and incredibly shortsighted.

 

Just so you know, Guild Wars 1 had an amazing gameplay allowing people to play with the skills available to them and make their own build. When I say build I mean it, not the dumbed down version we have in Guild Wars 2 with skills being useless often in every single mode along with much less skills available to choose. See the pigeonholing weapon do. Any good game even back in the day allowed you to tailor your gameplay which GW1 did quite well, same for Path of Exile for reference. Why do you think games like TES are popular besides the world and lore ? It’s because there is truly the sense of “play what you want” without feeling uneffective. This was also GW2 marketing before release saying you could play anything you wanted. Yet another sweet lie.

 

And of course you can play anything in outdoor PvE, even without talents you just zerg and spam 1. But people like to have fun and be challenged which is why we do harder content.

 

Just to give you an example I have played thousands of hours in PvE yet never stepped in raids because I don’t want to play a spec or class I don’t like. Still waiting since years for Anet to make it possible to play power Rev in that mode. So meanwhile I’m in WoW and having way more fun as the classes and specs are so much better balanced compared here where you wait 3 months for a patch just to be disappointed by the weird balance logic with their design.

 

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Scar.1793" said:

> > @"Kam.4092" said:

> > As a Guardian main, this post greatly irritates me. People look at the Guardian as the best balanced class with its weapons, traits, and skills. Your post comes off as someone being too stubborn to learn their class. What would be the point to all weapons being near equal? Also wanting to use Hammer with Longbow is a bad mix, because both are heavy area control weapons. Which is why they see more play in PvP. All weapons have a use still though, and it’s silly to refuse to Greatsword. Guardians have amazing utilities too. GW2 isn’t a game where you can just choose a weapon, and solely use it. It forces variety, and weapon swapping is probably my favorite part of the whole game. You can play how you want in open world, and not get questioned, but in group content be the best you can be, and don’t cripple the group. Especially in T4 Fractals, and Raids. Its rude to be that one guy that makes runs take longer due to wanting to use inferior setups. You’re playing an MMO sadly with group content that goes way more smoothly when having proper setups. Metas will always be a thing in any game with group content.

> >

> > I agree with your optimization comment, and pretty much everything else.

> >

> > You can play how you want to in open world :)

>

> I find your comment quite rude, especially the “you don’t want to learn your class” part, and incredibly shortsighted.

>

> Just so you know, Guild Wars 1 had an amazing gameplay allowing people to play with the skills available to them and make their own build. When I say build I mean it, not the dumbed down version we have in Guild Wars 2 with skills being useless often in every single mode along with much less skills available to choose. See the pigeonholing weapon do. Any good game even back in the day allowed you to tailor your gameplay which GW1 did quite well, same for Path of Exile for reference. Why do you think games like TES are popular besides the world and lore ? It’s because there is truly the sense of “play what you want” without feeling uneffective. This was also GW2 marketing before release saying you could play anything you wanted. Yet another sweet lie.

>

> And of course you can play anything in outdoor PvE, even without talents you just zerg and spam 1. But people like to have fun and be challenged which is why we do harder content.

>

> Just to give you an example I have played thousands of hours in PvE yet never stepped in raids because I don’t want to play a spec or class I don’t like. Still waiting since years for Anet to make it possible to play power Rev in that mode. So meanwhile I’m in WoW and having way more fun as the classes and specs are so much better balanced compared here where you wait 3 months for a patch just to be disappointed by the weird balance logic with their design.

>

 

Yes, GW1 builds were amazing. 95% useless skills, 15-20 useful skills used in any meta. Not counting strait up duplicate skills.

 

Yes, nobody is unhappy with WoW balance.

 

While you are correct about some things, you are showing a very strong case of bias and rose tinted glasses, sorry to say.

[Khisanth.2948]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Gyousa.5609" said:

> > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > Agree with you in most things, although i do like greatsword, and it's been my favourite weapon on Guardian, which was also my first and sorta main character, it does sting that most other weapons aren't nearly as viable as greatsword for power builds (which will be nerfed severely in the future patch, so goodbye to that).

> > > I too struggle to find a reason to play GW2, i've loved the game and keep current to the living story, but aside from that i can't find the fun in the game anymore. A big reason for this is also that all my guildmates have also quit way before me, and that's a big part of what makes MMORPGs work. But that isn't the only problem, i've simply grown too weary of watching a game i love get worse and worse, without doing anything to change that downward motion.

> > > Balance is the worse aspect of the game, and no real measures are taken to improve it, a Test server would be one major step to avoid having broken metas for 3 months. More frequent balance patches are something essential, and honestly, i don't know how in this day and age with so few classes to balance they still find it "fine" to only release a balance patch every month and a half to two months.

> > > Then there's really questionable monetization questions that half turned away a lot of people, and a big dip in quality of the game.

> > > Everything takes too long to make, and still comes out feeling rushed, i don't know how people can feel comfortable managing a game with that kind of pace and attitude.

> > > And that's why i'm like you, mostly just lurking in the forums, giving my two cents, hoping that something brings me back in... Might be that the warclaw does it, but its already looking like a major grind to get, so... We'll see.

> >

> > It's infinitely frustrating that they split the damage between PvE and PvP and didn't do anything significant with it. Why bother if they aren't going to attempt to balance for PvE? There's so much potential in this game's design but how it's executed is just gaaahhhh. I just hope they make the changes that make this game as great as it can be.

>

> Seems to me the problem is that you don't accept the game for what it is; you're hoping it turns into something you want it to be. I have yet to play an MMO that does that.

 

That is pretty much always the problem. Even worse is when people want it to be more like the previous game there were playing .... what is the point of playing a different game if you just want all of them to be the same?

[Scar.1793]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > @"Scar.1793" said:

> > > @"Kam.4092" said:

> > > As a Guardian main, this post greatly irritates me. People look at the Guardian as the best balanced class with its weapons, traits, and skills. Your post comes off as someone being too stubborn to learn their class. What would be the point to all weapons being near equal? Also wanting to use Hammer with Longbow is a bad mix, because both are heavy area control weapons. Which is why they see more play in PvP. All weapons have a use still though, and it’s silly to refuse to Greatsword. Guardians have amazing utilities too. GW2 isn’t a game where you can just choose a weapon, and solely use it. It forces variety, and weapon swapping is probably my favorite part of the whole game. You can play how you want in open world, and not get questioned, but in group content be the best you can be, and don’t cripple the group. Especially in T4 Fractals, and Raids. Its rude to be that one guy that makes runs take longer due to wanting to use inferior setups. You’re playing an MMO sadly with group content that goes way more smoothly when having proper setups. Metas will always be a thing in any game with group content.

> > >

> > > I agree with your optimization comment, and pretty much everything else.

> > >

> > > You can play how you want to in open world :)

> >

> > I find your comment quite rude, especially the “you don’t want to learn your class” part, and incredibly shortsighted.

> >

> > Just so you know, Guild Wars 1 had an amazing gameplay allowing people to play with the skills available to them and make their own build. When I say build I mean it, not the dumbed down version we have in Guild Wars 2 with skills being useless often in every single mode along with much less skills available to choose. See the pigeonholing weapon do. Any good game even back in the day allowed you to tailor your gameplay which GW1 did quite well, same for Path of Exile for reference. Why do you think games like TES are popular besides the world and lore ? It’s because there is truly the sense of “play what you want” without feeling uneffective. This was also GW2 marketing before release saying you could play anything you wanted. Yet another sweet lie.

> >

> > And of course you can play anything in outdoor PvE, even without talents you just zerg and spam 1. But people like to have fun and be challenged which is why we do harder content.

> >

> > Just to give you an example I have played thousands of hours in PvE yet never stepped in raids because I don’t want to play a spec or class I don’t like. Still waiting since years for Anet to make it possible to play power Rev in that mode. So meanwhile I’m in WoW and having way more fun as the classes and specs are so much better balanced compared here where you wait 3 months for a patch just to be disappointed by the weird balance logic with their design.

> >

>

> Yes, GW1 builds were amazing. 95% useless skills, 15-20 useful skills used in any meta. Not counting strait up duplicate skills.

>

> Yes, nobody is unhappy with WoW balance.

>

> While you are correct about some things, you are showing a very strong case of bias and rose tinted glasses, sorry to say.

 

GW1 had its issues but you can’t deny the fact people could spend hours and hours trying to make the perfect build, 95% useless skills if you have 0 imagination yes. I wonder if you played the game. There was a meta mainly for Hall of Heroes, the rest ? Could play with a decent build without being kicked or refused a spot as long as the build was good.

 

Never said people are happy with the balance of classes in WoW but overall it’s way better than GW2 and you do have a choice with most specs being useful both in PvP and PvE. Call me when you’ll see that in GW2..

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Scar.1793" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > @"Scar.1793" said:

> > > > @"Kam.4092" said:

> > > > As a Guardian main, this post greatly irritates me. People look at the Guardian as the best balanced class with its weapons, traits, and skills. Your post comes off as someone being too stubborn to learn their class. What would be the point to all weapons being near equal? Also wanting to use Hammer with Longbow is a bad mix, because both are heavy area control weapons. Which is why they see more play in PvP. All weapons have a use still though, and it’s silly to refuse to Greatsword. Guardians have amazing utilities too. GW2 isn’t a game where you can just choose a weapon, and solely use it. It forces variety, and weapon swapping is probably my favorite part of the whole game. You can play how you want in open world, and not get questioned, but in group content be the best you can be, and don’t cripple the group. Especially in T4 Fractals, and Raids. Its rude to be that one guy that makes runs take longer due to wanting to use inferior setups. You’re playing an MMO sadly with group content that goes way more smoothly when having proper setups. Metas will always be a thing in any game with group content.

> > > >

> > > > I agree with your optimization comment, and pretty much everything else.

> > > >

> > > > You can play how you want to in open world :)

> > >

> > > I find your comment quite rude, especially the “you don’t want to learn your class” part, and incredibly shortsighted.

> > >

> > > Just so you know, Guild Wars 1 had an amazing gameplay allowing people to play with the skills available to them and make their own build. When I say build I mean it, not the dumbed down version we have in Guild Wars 2 with skills being useless often in every single mode along with much less skills available to choose. See the pigeonholing weapon do. Any good game even back in the day allowed you to tailor your gameplay which GW1 did quite well, same for Path of Exile for reference. Why do you think games like TES are popular besides the world and lore ? It’s because there is truly the sense of “play what you want” without feeling uneffective. This was also GW2 marketing before release saying you could play anything you wanted. Yet another sweet lie.

> > >

> > > And of course you can play anything in outdoor PvE, even without talents you just zerg and spam 1. But people like to have fun and be challenged which is why we do harder content.

> > >

> > > Just to give you an example I have played thousands of hours in PvE yet never stepped in raids because I don’t want to play a spec or class I don’t like. Still waiting since years for Anet to make it possible to play power Rev in that mode. So meanwhile I’m in WoW and having way more fun as the classes and specs are so much better balanced compared here where you wait 3 months for a patch just to be disappointed by the weird balance logic with their design.

> > >

> >

> > Yes, GW1 builds were amazing. 95% useless skills, 15-20 useful skills used in any meta. Not counting strait up duplicate skills.

> >

> > Yes, nobody is unhappy with WoW balance.

> >

> > While you are correct about some things, you are showing a very strong case of bias and rose tinted glasses, sorry to say.

>

> GW1 had its issues but you can’t deny the fact people could spend hours and hours trying to make the perfect build, 95% useless skills if you have 0 imagination yes. I wonder if you played the game. There was a meta mainly for Hall of Heroes, the rest ? Could play with a decent build without being kicked or refused a spot as long as the build was good.

>

 

Come online and check my GW1 related titles. Yes, 1% of the player base spent time on creating the builds (using often the same skills with small variations), 99% went to pvxwiki and copy pasted that build, or ran with a completely useless setup. I wonder where I have seen that repeat its self? Oh right, in GW2.

 

GW2 is designed around having weapons dictate your role. That is never going to change unless we have a complete game revamp. As such, telling TC that his expectations are unrelistic is valid. GW1 was designed differenty.

 

> @"Scar.1793" said:

> Never said people are happy with the balance of classes in WoW but overall it’s way better than GW2 and you do have a choice with most spec being useful both in PvP and PvE. Call me when you’ll see that in GW2..

 

Last time I checked, the Arena top 100 were dominated by perfect class setups. Mythic+ dungeons had strait up superior class setups.

 

You are simply inexperienced in this games challenging content living off of assumptions and forum nonsense.

[MoriMoriMori.5349]

> @"Gyousa.5609" said:

> There is a rule in PvE group content in MMOs, that being you sacrifice everything you can for DPS to get the job done faster. With a Longbow/Hammer build that still did enough damage to not be an anchor in T4 Fractals, I was constantly being told off by players rocking meta builds. But that wasn't as bad as the alternative, playing with weapons I disliked just to deal more damage.

 

Heh, so I'm not the only one. Like you, I liked dagger/ dagger setup on Ele. But later I discovered, that its e-specs are centered around one weapon (weaver - sword, tempest - warhorn), and you can't use anything else without being "told off by those rocking the meta builds". I disliked Tempest's warhorn build straight on, it's a boring "mash buttons for AoE dps" kind of gameplay, totally not the stile I would like. On top of it, the only viable build is based on constant abuse of Fresh Air / Air Overload combo, and other overloads and attunements are never used - that's "a versatile caster" for you, thanks a bunch for false ad, Anet :disappointed: If I play as d/d tempest while using all my overloads and attunements, like "a versatile caster" should be, my dps is 3-4 times lower than the meta - and there is nothing I can do about it. It's simply horrible, rushed design. I still play it, ofc, as like you I can't force myself play the way I don't like "for better numbers".

 

Well, at least sword Weaver isn't that horrible, gameplay-wise (balance-wise it's nerfed too much for reasons which don't exist now in times of post-PoF powercreep), so I'm at a bit better position than you. Still, using only one weapon for him is quite disappointing. Again, d/d Weaver will deal times less dps than meta sword/dagger build.

 

And can you believe that people keep asking for even more new e-specs, when half of current core professions and e-specs is a mess like this? Or do they care only about flashy animations, mb?

[Vayne.8563]

> @"Scar.1793" said:

> > @"Kam.4092" said:

> > As a Guardian main, this post greatly irritates me. People look at the Guardian as the best balanced class with its weapons, traits, and skills. Your post comes off as someone being too stubborn to learn their class. What would be the point to all weapons being near equal? Also wanting to use Hammer with Longbow is a bad mix, because both are heavy area control weapons. Which is why they see more play in PvP. All weapons have a use still though, and it’s silly to refuse to Greatsword. Guardians have amazing utilities too. GW2 isn’t a game where you can just choose a weapon, and solely use it. It forces variety, and weapon swapping is probably my favorite part of the whole game. You can play how you want in open world, and not get questioned, but in group content be the best you can be, and don’t cripple the group. Especially in T4 Fractals, and Raids. Its rude to be that one guy that makes runs take longer due to wanting to use inferior setups. You’re playing an MMO sadly with group content that goes way more smoothly when having proper setups. Metas will always be a thing in any game with group content.

> >

> > I agree with your optimization comment, and pretty much everything else.

> >

> > You can play how you want to in open world :)

>

> I find your comment quite rude, especially the “you don’t want to learn your class” part, and incredibly shortsighted.

>

> Just so you know, Guild Wars 1 had an amazing gameplay allowing people to play with the skills available to them and make their own build. When I say build I mean it, not the dumbed down version we have in Guild Wars 2 with skills being useless often in every single mode along with much less skills available to choose. See the pigeonholing weapon do. Any good game even back in the day allowed you to tailor your gameplay which GW1 did quite well, same for Path of Exile for reference. Why do you think games like TES are popular besides the world and lore ? It’s because there is truly the sense of “play what you want” without feeling uneffective. This was also GW2 marketing before release saying you could play anything you wanted. Yet another sweet lie.

>

> And of course you can play anything in outdoor PvE, even without talents you just zerg and spam 1. But people like to have fun and be challenged which is why we do harder content.

>

> Just to give you an example I have played thousands of hours in PvE yet never stepped in raids because I don’t want to play a spec or class I don’t like. Still waiting since years for Anet to make it possible to play power Rev in that mode. So meanwhile I’m in WoW and having way more fun as the classes and specs are so much better balanced compared here where you wait 3 months for a patch just to be disappointed by the weird balance logic with their design.

>

 

Except I had the same experience in Guild Wars 1, trying to get into a group using Sabway, Iway, Ursan level 8 or higher...whatever the flavor of the month build was to do the Underworld or DOA or Slaver's Exile. I wanted to use my own build and you know what? People didn't accept that. It was the meta or bust for a whole lot of people in Guild Wars 1, no matter how many skills I had access to.

[Trise.2865]

As I've been saying a lot lately: It's one thing to not understand something. It's another entirely to assume it's lying to you because you don't understand it.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

I would come back if all the useless traits/skills were buffed. I absolutely loathe having the option of choosing between 20 utility skills but in reality its only about 5 for any given situation.

[kharmin.7683]

> @"Gyousa.5609" said:

 

> So either engage with what I've actually written and stop making up rubbish/leaping to conclusions to flame about, or get out of my thread :)

This is a public forum. You created a thread and people are responding to it. You do not get to dictate who can and cannot post in it.

 

[shejesa.3712]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you crying that players who actually put some effort to get their character a proper build, proper gear, proper food and then spent their time on golem learning a proper rotation were telling you you play something sub par when in team content?

I mean, I'm pretty much a veteran, a few thousand hours sunk in and counting, but I don't really see people crying you have bad weapons if you deal enough damage. Apparently you having longbow/hammer instead of gs/scpeter+whatever offhand was meta at that point made such a big difference that people pointed that out.

If you want to play your made up build and show your 'other valuable qualities,' as one warrior on this forum once said and I remembered, do it in Open World.

Because if there are 4 other people who actually fulfill their place in generally accepted and respected setup, who took their time to gear themselves and to practice, you have no right to infringe on their fun with your own random traits and hammer.

 

[shejesa.3712]

> @"Tiviana.2650" said:

> I think its silly that a ranger cant use a longbow to dps with, i mean thats the iconic weapon of the archtype. I dont mind standing in closer to shoot, but must the damage be so pitiful?

 

Have you ever got shot in your back by a soulbeast in WvW?

[Yasi.9065]

> @"MoriMoriMori.5349" said:

> And can you believe that people keep asking for even more new e-specs, when half of current core professions and e-specs is a mess like this? Or do they care only about flashy animations, mb?

 

Just because you dont like something doesnt mean the balancing is bad or that skills are completely unused or that its "a mess".

 

 

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> I would come back if all the useless traits/skills were buffed. I absolutely loathe having the option of choosing between 20 utility skills but in reality its only about 5 for any given situation.

 

But usually thats only a problem with totally OP skills that are so powerful, you simply cant pass them up for more situational but weaker skills. Buffing all other skills to that level would be just plain foolish and I thank everything that Anet's balancing dev dont listen to complaints like that. The reverse is the way to go. Bring those over the top skills in line with the rest on each class, so you arent power creeping the game into lala-fluff land where everything becomes a one-shot.

[TexZero.7910]

> @"Gyousa.5609" said:

>

> I don't think that's quite the right analogy, but I get your point. My response is the same though. Every weapon does damage, and the weapons which have higher DPS than others still have utility. The power budget for each ability doesn't seem to add up.

>

> And that is exactly my point, ANet has different values for PvP and PvE, so then why aren't they appropriately tuned? Utility and CC means less in PvE, so the power budget should be more open for damage because those things are weighted less.

>

 

I don't think anything anyone can say will sway you because if it's not your idea of balance it's not working. So have a nice trip and stay in whatever other game you find that has this mythical illusive perfect balance.

 

From my years of playing games it doesn't exist, nor to specs that have a bunch of utility and damage unless the devs are straight up incompetent.

 

[Zaklex.6308]

> @"Tiviana.2650" said:

> I think its silly that a ranger cant use a longbow to dps with, i mean thats the iconic weapon of the archtype. I dont mind standing in closer to shoot, but must the damage be so pitiful?

>

 

Odd, I don't seem to have that much of a problem with my ranger, but then I do tend to try and be at max range all the time so that might have something to do with it...and...never mind, it's open world so who cares and who notices.

 

 

[SexyMofo.8923]

You hit the nail right on the head.