Please stop adding new achievements to old content

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @"Dalec.9853" said:

> > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > Actually, I’ve left jobs I don’t enjoy, and currently have one that I do and it pays better.

> >

> > It’s about CHOICES.

> >

> > He, and you have a choice.

>

> I like the game overall and generally care for its health and future still, so nothing wrong with wanting a discussion on its problems

 

Agreed. I just think the game has other issues that affect its viability over them adding additional chances for APs.

 

Now... if they had the time to add actual content to old content (new events etc) to assist with the new APs, I’d be perfectly fine with that. But that takes developer time.

 

So.. I am good either way. I just don’t think stopping the practice of adding APs to old content is a good idea.

[Mewcifer.5198]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"Mewcifer.5198" said:

> > If someone has 30k+ ap it most likely means they were around during season 1. Season 1 absolutely drowned people in AP. And it's all AP that is gone now, unavailable for anyone who missed it.

>

> Yes because those 1926 AP that the entire LS1 gave us is "drowning people with AP"

 

Where are you getting that number? It is at least over 2k ap from that season that can't be obtained now. That's more AP than either of the expansions added (unless you count the LS following the expansion as part of the expansion).

[Dalec.9853]

> @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

>

> Agreed. I just think the game has other issues that affect its viability over them adding additional chances for APs.

Yes, it has other worse problems, not going to argue against that

> Now... if they had the time to add actual content to old content (new events etc) to assist with the new APs, I’d be perfectly fine with that. But that takes developer time.

Takes time but would be a good reason to add them, and importantly a good reason to revisit that content

> So.. I am good either way. I just don’t think stopping the practice of adding APs to old content is a good idea.

But why? I know they are easy (If it were a hard new achievement it'd not be an issue anyway as that's a new challenge). I can't understand why it is a good thing the reason to revisit content is because they added a new achievement that is basically the same as one you already did when you first did it. Shouldn't it because you'd have fun doing so only, it's a game after all.

 

I'd be irritated if my steam 100% achievements had a new set of the same but slightly reworded or tweaked ones added on yearly to make me feel like I have to replay something for a reason other than fun. We'd not accept that, why should MMO's get away with it? Maybe it's fine for the others, but GW2 had an aim to be different so it shouldn't be accepted.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"Dalec.9853" said:

> If the content hasn't really been updated in a way that would make it fresh and enjoyable, then it's just spoiling that content that we may have originally enjoyed but repeating it yet again is just annoying. The latest example of this is SAB, it's fine for events to return for newer players to experience, but that shouldn't mean needing to ruin it for older players. (And nothing is stopping those that do want to repeat it from doing so anyway)

>

> People might say to just not do the achievements then, but that's not really an option for completionists and people who just like to try make sure they do available achievements.

>

> It's not a good way to encourage people to play or return to the game; NEW content is the way for that, not frustrating us with stale old events.

 

Existing content isn’t ruined as those new achievements/activities are optional. Those who are completionists should have already accepted that they’ll do things sometimes which they do not enjoy.

[Dalec.9853]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> Existing content isn’t ruined as those new achievements/activities are optional. Those who are completionists should have already accepted that they’ll do things sometimes which they do not enjoy.

 

So still the answer of oh that's just the way it is, because why make things better right?

[robertthebard.8150]

> @"Dalec.9853" said:

> > @"kratan.4619" said:

> > Why does it bother you at all, I can go back and get the few AP offered and you do not have to, I am not really seeing the problem here. This does not affect you in any way, other than possibly an argument like, "I don't want to redo the content to get the new AP offered and nobody else should be able to so that I won't fall behind in the AP race."

>

> It bothers me as I wish to complete achievements; if you do not play the game that way that is fine, but I and others do. Most might just be accepting of it just being the way it is done, but I am questioning it. You correctly state that I do not want to redo content, old content that is no longer enjoyable to me, but feel the need to because of the achievement additions, not because the content has suddenly been reworked or became enjoyable. I am not saying nobody else should be able to play it, I encourage those that would enjoy it to do it! so it's not that nobody else should be able to, but nobody should HAVE to do it or risk falling behind in the 'AP race' as you call it. Because as a reason for repeating it's' not good for the health and enjoyment of the game. Do we not play games for fun these days?

>

> Nobody has yet explained why it is a good thing for the only reason to repeat something being not to miss out on new/repeatable achievements on old content, as not adding them would not stop those who would enjoy doing so from playing it

 

Then you're going to have to run the content. This isn't a design flaw, it's a desire flaw, or a lack of desire flaw? To me, it's just another event, and frankly, I didn't run it last year, and I haven't run it this year, and I'm not feeling like I'm missing out one way or the other. The hype train thread came to life a couple of weeks or so before the event went live, and just as last year, it didn't get me hyped. Unlike last year's thread, I don't think I even read it. If you choose to skip it because it's stale, or for whatever other reason, then accept that you chose to also forgo the AP associated with a concept that exists in other activities as well, the annual achievements. It's not like they don't appear the very first time something like this comes up, is it?

[Trise.2865]

Translation:

"Dear ArenaNet,

 

I don't feel like playing the game, but I want achievements. Plz nerf."

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"Dalec.9853" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > Existing content isn’t ruined as those new achievements/activities are optional. Those who are completionists should have already accepted that they’ll do things sometimes which they do not enjoy.

>

> So still the answer of oh that's just the way it is, because why make things better right?

 

What you claim to be better isn’t necessarily better for other players. An example would be in that stickied thread where some players do not want new maps and instead want Anet to re-use existing ones.

[Dalec.9853]

> @"Trise.2865" said:

> Translation:

> "Dear ArenaNet,

>

> I don't feel like playing the game, but I want achievements. Plz nerf."

 

More like "Dear ArenaNet

 

I am playing the game, but this thing isn't fun, It'd be better to have new content as a reason to play the game."

 

But then I guess you didn't really take a second to read, possibly understand even if you disagree. You just wanted to jump in to defend them.

 

Remember we didn't even get the full set of promised/advertised content from the first expansion yet, but of course it's not ok to question why they do this rubbish with all the old content and continue to act like other MMO devs they didn't want to copy.

 

It does seem this community is awful to anyone that wants to have any criticism of ArenaNet/GW2, some will jump in to defend them with no real reasoning or argument, just messages that could be summed up as "meh, just because" no reason why explained. Fine I get it, GW2 is perfect I guess and is above any and all criticism even minor like this.

 

 

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Mewcifer.5198" said:

> > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > @"Mewcifer.5198" said:

> > > If someone has 30k+ ap it most likely means they were around during season 1. Season 1 absolutely drowned people in AP. And it's all AP that is gone now, unavailable for anyone who missed it.

> >

> > Yes because those 1926 AP that the entire LS1 gave us is "drowning people with AP"

>

> Where are you getting that number? It is at least over 2k ap from that season that can't be obtained now. That's more AP than either of the expansions added (unless you count the LS following the expansion as part of the expansion).

 

gw2efficiency had all the AP available until the most recent API purge. I have them all in an excel file that I made when S2 was first released and this argument of "LS1 gave way more AP" first appeared. Usually given by people with no actual knowledge of the AP numbers.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"MetalGirl.2370" said:

> > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > @"Dalec.9853" said:

> > > If the content hasn't really been updated in a way that would make it fresh and enjoyable, then it's just spoiling that content that we may have originally enjoyed but repeating it yet again is just annoying. The latest example of this is SAB, it's fine for events to return for newer players to experience, but that shouldn't mean needing to ruin it for older players. (And nothing is stopping those that do want to repeat it from doing so anyway)

> > >

> > > People might say to just not do the achievements then, but that's not really an option for completionists and people who just like to try make sure they do available achievements.

> > >

> > > It's not a good way to encourage people to play or return to the game; NEW content is the way for that, not frustrating us with stale old events.

> >

> > The annual achievement, as others said already, is easy to finish if you complete both worlds on infantile and normal modes.

> > The collection for the new items and the new races are both new and while earning those you can finish the annual one just fine.

> > They didn't "ruin" the event for older players, they added new things to do in SAB that doesn't involve finishing the zones themselves as both the races and the new items do not require actual completion.

> > Why is adding such small new achievements to refresh the content a bad thing?

>

> The question is not if something is easy or not and how easy it is. That's completely besides the point. He is trying to say that they shouldn't be in a position where they add achievements to have people come back to it. They're doing it the lazy way. If they added a new world, this thread wouldn't even exist. They rely on achievements to make people come back which just says "we know it's boring, but we know you all want AP so that's how we'll make you play it"

 

They added new items and new activities in SAB they didn't just add achievements telling you to go back and run SAB. The annual achievement itself can be very easily completed as part of the other achievements the only "extra" you have to do is beat the last boss of a zone.

[MoriMoriMori.5349]

Am I missing something? Why not having those achievements is better than having them repeated? I mean, they are not mandatory, just have fun at SAB, ignoring achievement's track.. Problem solved? Those who like to do it for achievements would still be able to. What exactly does force anybody to work for it?

[thehipone.6812]

So they should stop adding things to do because it somehow triggers some AP hunter's OCD?

 

I disagree. If it isn't fun, don't do it. If you can't handle having something "unchecked" in the AP panel, then that's on you.

[lokh.2695]

No one forces you to do it again. If YOU want the AP, it's a YOU-problem, not an oversight or failure of Anet.

[Dalec.9853]

> @"thehipone.6812" said:

> So they should stop adding things to do because it somehow triggers some AP hunter's OCD?

>

> I disagree. If it isn't fun, don't do it. If you can't handle having something "unchecked" in the AP panel, then that's on you.

 

It's not adding things to do if it's just repeating the same old, the question is "If it isn't fun, why add it?" the answer shouldn't be Well it isn't fun but do it anyway or you miss out, there's still not a single reasonable argument yet why it is a good thing for the game, when not adding them wouldn't stop those that want to replay it from doing so... and I don't think I'm going to get an answer I guess

 

Edit: I guess this thread has given a good idea for ArenaNet though, Why add new content at all, just make every achievement repeatable, maybe infinitely! Wonderful idea, because apparently that's still "things to do", who cares about new! Old is the new new!

[Danikat.8537]

I was literally thinking while doing the Super Adveturerer's Quest that I'm glad they're adding new stuff to do in SAB even if they can't add new maps yet. Maybe the difference is that I'm one of the people who would repeat it anyway, but one thing I love about SAB is the amount of stuff hidden in the maps besides the basics required to complete it, and in that sense replaying it with the same goals isn't as enjoyable because you'll reach a point where you already know where everything is and how to reach it. This gave me new goals within the same maps and that sense of discovery all over again. :)

 

My only concern is that adding Worlds 3 and 4 would be an even bigger job now because there's so much more to include. But that can be solved by spacing it out - first year just add the maps, second year Tribulation mode, third year Super Adventure Quest and races and so on.

[Jojo.6140]

Its quite the other way around: It is good if they add new achievements to older content, since then people who have already completed it back then still have something new to do. Nothing is more lame than a festival where you basically have nothing left to do because you completed everything in earlier years.

[Ayakaru.6583]

Just be glad we’re getting new achievements.

In case you hadn’t noticed, there”s a drought of AP at the moment, and I for one welcome my AP overlords.

As much as I hate SAB, i am willing to suffer the content for that many AP.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @"Dalec.9853" said:

>

> If someone would enjoy replaying, WHAT is stopping them from doing so without annual and other new achievements being added that encourage repeating the same old yearly? if you would like to play it, then do so; why are they needed? If the only reason to play it is because they added new and annual achievements to otherwise old stale content, do you not think that is a negative thing, it's the same kind of trick subscription based MMOs use to keep their numbers up in a way.

 

What stops people from playing content without some sort of carrot? For many MMO fans, it seems that "fun" is not enough. There have to be "rewards." For better or for worse, MMO's have always been about progression in the minds of many, many players. Advancing one's AP totals _is_ a form of horizontal progression.

 

Why AP instead of (or in addition to) pixelated gewgaws? AP does not require graphic artist resources to produce. Thus, tacking AP onto existing festival content means that more resources are available for other projects. The developer needs those other projects to partially satiate the insatiable thirst of some MMO fans for more. Neither ANet nor any other MMO developer has ever been able to keep players playing without such "tricks." The best GW2 can hope for is to keep the incentives to play optional by avoiding vertical progression.

[Westenev.5289]

There are some... very interesting viewpoints that are very creative (if not slightly contrary), like the obligation to play content you hate for AP. It's not an idea I subscribe to, but you do you... I guess?

 

What this thread suggests is that players who enjoy the content should play unrewarded, simply so a handfull of people can sleep well at night knowing they won't feel obligated to participate in events. If that's the case, how about we scrap the whole AP system? No developer should ever have the gall to suggest how I should play their game through such horrid passive agressive messaging. /s

[Mewcifer.5198]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"Mewcifer.5198" said:

> > > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > > @"Mewcifer.5198" said:

> > > > If someone has 30k+ ap it most likely means they were around during season 1. Season 1 absolutely drowned people in AP. And it's all AP that is gone now, unavailable for anyone who missed it.

> > >

> > > Yes because those 1926 AP that the entire LS1 gave us is "drowning people with AP"

> >

> > Where are you getting that number? It is at least over 2k ap from that season that can't be obtained now. That's more AP than either of the expansions added (unless you count the LS following the expansion as part of the expansion).

>

> gw2efficiency had all the AP available until the most recent API purge. I have them all in an excel file that I made when S2 was first released and this argument of "LS1 gave way more AP" first appeared. Usually given by people with no actual knowledge of the AP numbers.

 

[Etria.3642]

2712 as one commentator in the link puts it is FIVE achievement boxes.

 

That is a lot. Especially today when we get things with 1 and 2 points.

 

So adding an annual with FIFTY!!! Is great!

[Cerioth.7062]

I love when new achievements are added, no matter in what content.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

> @"Dalec.9853" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > Existing content isn’t ruined as those new achievements/activities are optional. Those who are completionists should have already accepted that they’ll do things sometimes which they do not enjoy.

>

> So still the answer of oh that's just the way it is, because why make things better right?

 

No, it's because the feelings of discomfort completitonists reportedly experience over incomplete achievements is an issue of mental health, and not of video game design.

 

The reason game developers show up to work every day is to design and create ways of getting players to play their game. End stop. Period. What you are asking is antithetical to their job description.

 

 

[Cerioth.7062]

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > @"Dalec.9853" said:

> > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > Existing content isn’t ruined as those new achievements/activities are optional. Those who are completionists should have already accepted that they’ll do things sometimes which they do not enjoy.

> >

> > So still the answer of oh that's just the way it is, because why make things better right?

>

> No, it's because the feelings of discomfort completitonists reportedly experience over incomplete achievements is an issue of mental health, and not of video game design.

>

> The reason game developers show up to work every day is to design and create ways of getting players to play their game. End stop. Period. What you are asking is antithetical to their job description.

>

>

 

This is also true. And also, I am in the camp of those people who get uncomfortable at the sight of uncompleted achievements. Even so, I acknowledge that it is more about me and my own completionistic issues than anything else - and I still love when they add me new stuff to do, whether it be in new or old content!