Ryan.9387 Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > @"Ryan.9387" said: > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > @"Ryan.9387" said: > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > @"Ryan.9387" said: > > > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > > > @"Erzian.5218" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > > > > These problems listed in this thread are all problems caused by your lack of awareness and skill in the game. Rev has a few problems with too much damage on sword 5 and shiro F2, but beside that and maybe impossible odds, rev is balanced. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I love posts of this kind! “If we exclude everything that is broken/overturned, the class/build is balanced”. By that standard, there have never been any balance issues. > > > > > > > > Still better than the guy who wants to test the power level of a roamer that is also strong in team fights by 1v1ing it. Guess a-net shouldn’t have nerfed firebrand then, as it couldn’t even kill Druid, which was underperforming at that time. Oh and no idea why scourge was nerfed as it had a losing 1v1 match up vs longbow ranger /facepalm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He was right though.. I dont think anyone is taking my challenge because they wont be able to +1 or take advantage of my situational awareness. > > > > > > > > > > > > Your challenge is a waste of time and completely misses the point on why rev can be oppressive in the current meta. > > > > > > > > > > > > No rev is going to 1v1 you in ranked, so the matchup is meaningless. Better challenge two revs to fight you and see how long you last. That's more typical. > > > > > > > > > > You should die in any 2v1. I don't see why people get mad about dying in a 2v1 like they expect to be able to comfortably hold off 2 people on their own without dying. You die as fast by two Revs as you die as fast by two sic em rangers or even two scourges pooping condi's on you that you're unable to cleanse > > > > > > > > The revs kill quite a bit faster. More importantly, they make absolutely no sacrifices in doing so. Sic em gives up defensive traits and utility skills for damage. Rev does it on a relatively conservative build, full of stunbreaks, condi clear, excellent healing, lifesteal, heavy armor, etc. > > > > > > > > No other class combo can equal the mobility, damage, and sustain of a rev duo. Other specs can get close, but never quite there. > > > > > > > > It's the ideal combo for creating a snowball on the map. > > > > > > Rev has one of the most kitten sustain in the game. The fact you said that rev is full of condi clear, excellent healing and stunbreaks just shows you either have not played above gold division or you have never played Revenant yourself. > > > > > > Revenant has close to zero condi clear so idk where you got your information from but Revenant is EXTREMELY weak against conditions. > > > > > > Excellent healing? You mean Rev can only heal by getting attacked? Any good player knows when a rev is about to use infuse light and you just do not attack during these 3 seconds. Now the rev has not been able to heal and sustain himself so it's an easy kill. Most revenants will not even commit into attacking during infuse light by using CC's or sword 3 because they want to get hit during this time and not prevent you from hitting them. > > > > > > Revenant has stunbreaks sure, but not more than the average other class. In fact, Revenant has a less easy time keeping a stunbreak available. The stunbreak on legend swap is very good but you have to keep in mind that a rev has to swap legends asap, so a good tactic would be to CC a rev right after they swapped legends. The stunbreak on shiro requires a lot of energy aswell, often a rev does not have the energy to use riposting shadows when he has been in a fight, so CC'ing a rev in shiro is very worth it. > > > > > > Revenants sacrifice all defensive traits and gear attributes for pure damage. They do not have a bunch of passive damage reducing traits or abilities to keep them alive. Neither do they have passive healing sustaining you in a fight. Theres also no passive traits saving a Revenant from dying after making a mistake. Everything a rev can do to stay alive is all ACTIVE and requires skill and timing. Rev is not like other classes that allow you to stay alive because of passive traits and no skill requiring abilities. > > > > I've finished between top25-top3 on ele, mesmer, ranger, theif, engie, warrior, and guardian. I currently play rev at plat2 on an alt. I think I have a good understanding of the strengths of the various classes I play. > > > > Please allow the rev in your example to use their brain too. If your opponent is smart enough to cc after a legend swap, then assume the rev is smart enough to dodge, or staff 3, or staff 5, or sword 3, or sword 5, or roll backward, or facet of darkness, or glint heal. > > > > Also revs aren't full glass cannon. AP is taken over brutality. Condi clear over a direct damage buff. Legend swap procs over a crit chance increase. Leadership over an offense rune. Etc. > > how you gon' say ur top 25-top 3 and plat 2 with rev but you didn't know Rev has very little condi clear? Something is fishy here Rating etc... https://imgur.com/a/LjqYFuw 4 unused top 25 titles on my main. https://imgur.com/a/CpBxqVU I'm done discussing this with you unless you can make more to your argument than baseless assertions on people's rating. Rev is the best +1 class right now. It also is the best class at maintaining a snowball. Is it op? Maybe a little. I would like to see something done to address its ranged damage (f2, aoe facet), because that should be an approach to beat revs. Ranged damage + no ports. I think changing the f2/facer to not damage vertically would be the correct move (say arc divider behavior for f2 and a ground travel behavior like tempest warhorn skills for facet). Rev can leap up to chase, but not be able to kill classes kiting up ledges by using aoes from below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagg.9236 Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 Revenant isn't a real class; it's a marketing tool used to sell a half-backed expansion. It's deserves only deletion; turned into scrap for other professions to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > @"Ryan.9387" said: > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > @"Erzian.5218" said: > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > These problems listed in this thread are all problems caused by your lack of awareness and skill in the game. Rev has a few problems with too much damage on sword 5 and shiro F2, but beside that and maybe impossible odds, rev is balanced. > > > > > > > > I love posts of this kind! “If we exclude everything that is broken/overturned, the class/build is balanced”. By that standard, there have never been any balance issues. > > > > Still better than the guy who wants to test the power level of a roamer that is also strong in team fights by 1v1ing it. Guess a-net shouldn’t have nerfed firebrand then, as it couldn’t even kill Druid, which was underperforming at that time. Oh and no idea why scourge was nerfed as it had a losing 1v1 match up vs longbow ranger /facepalm. > > > > > > > > > > He was right though.. I dont think anyone is taking my challenge because they wont be able to +1 or take advantage of my situational awareness. > > > > Your challenge is a waste of time and completely misses the point on why rev can be oppressive in the current meta. > > > > No rev is going to 1v1 you in ranked, so the matchup is meaningless. Better challenge two revs to fight you and see how long you last. That's more typical. > > You should die in any 2v1. I don't see why people get mad about dying in a 2v1 like they expect to be able to comfortably hold off 2 people on their own without dying. You die as fast by two Revs as you die as fast by two sic em rangers or even two scourges pooping condi's on you that you're unable to cleanse Id still take that 2v1 proposed too. Id rather face 2 revs than 2 holo/sb/slb/thief/necro... atleast I know my Tempest with Weakness spam or Necro with condi spam might have a chance against 2 Revs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 > @"ZhouX.8742" said: > > @"Ryan.9387" said: > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > @"Erzian.5218" said: > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > These problems listed in this thread are all problems caused by your lack of awareness and skill in the game. Rev has a few problems with too much damage on sword 5 and shiro F2, but beside that and maybe impossible odds, rev is balanced. > > > > > > > > I love posts of this kind! “If we exclude everything that is broken/overturned, the class/build is balanced”. By that standard, there have never been any balance issues. > > > > Still better than the guy who wants to test the power level of a roamer that is also strong in team fights by 1v1ing it. Guess a-net shouldn’t have nerfed firebrand then, as it couldn’t even kill Druid, which was underperforming at that time. Oh and no idea why scourge was nerfed as it had a losing 1v1 match up vs longbow ranger /facepalm. > > > > > > > > > > He was right though.. I dont think anyone is taking my challenge because they wont be able to +1 or take advantage of my situational awareness. > > > > Your challenge is a waste of time and completely misses the point on why rev can be oppressive in the current meta. > > > > No rev is going to 1v1 you in ranked, so the matchup is meaningless. Better challenge two revs to fight you and see how long you last. That's more typical. > > Pretty much this > > Understand roles of a class in conquest before asking for 1v1s I understand roles just fine which was another point tied to the challenge. The question was designed for the people saying it needs to be nerfed to jump on its defense instead. And thats exactly what happened too. "It needs to +1"... ok so its like thief and needs to 2v1 someone. Thats a poor state for a DPS class to be in if you ask me. "It needs to port through LoS" .. so it needs to take advantage of situational awareness because it isnt strong enough like a Warrior or SLB to be able to run face first on to the enemy. ... ... Overall I think thats a pretty sad state for a class... cant hold its own, relies on others and has to abuse situational awareness and play from the shadows to be successful. Even the mere thought of nerfing this class is baffling to me. Also why is it a bad thing if classes are different and excel at different things? Lets say these nerfs happen to these ports too, does anyone else realize you"ll only be making the game even more 1 dimensional? Another point to add to my previous posts you didnt read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnfall.9573 Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 > @"Crypto.7609" said: > Teleport from behind the corner>take away huge chunk of hp from enemy that 3 shots if enemy doesnt use invulns(blocks dont help)>run behind a corner while spamming a tonn of dodges>rinse repeat. > Most easy to play and most broken class in game all thanks to crazy dmg and surviviability, ability to safely rinse repeat that los'ing combo with absolutely no counterplay from enemies. > > And no, thief is paper himself + hits like a wet noodle cos his dmg is non-existant after all those endless nerfs, easily blockable if he doesnt waste elite slot on a tiny duration stun, so don't even compare. Thanks for describing Thief --Thief is responsible for the professions being Toxic including Mesmer--- Balance+Design- make all professions Toxic like Thief so they can stand a chance against them. ( Instead of removing the root cause of Toxicity-Thief so the other professions will not be Toxic. Balance and Designs=make them all Toxic as well) Fight ===Toxicity Vs Toxicity=== ( I finally come to conclusion that no professions gets nerf until Thief is removed from the game) **with no exceptions!!!** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog.3716 Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > @"ZhouX.8742" said: > > > @"Ryan.9387" said: > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > @"Erzian.5218" said: > > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > These problems listed in this thread are all problems caused by your lack of awareness and skill in the game. Rev has a few problems with too much damage on sword 5 and shiro F2, but beside that and maybe impossible odds, rev is balanced. > > > > > > > > > > I love posts of this kind! “If we exclude everything that is broken/overturned, the class/build is balanced”. By that standard, there have never been any balance issues. > > > > > Still better than the guy who wants to test the power level of a roamer that is also strong in team fights by 1v1ing it. Guess a-net shouldn’t have nerfed firebrand then, as it couldn’t even kill Druid, which was underperforming at that time. Oh and no idea why scourge was nerfed as it had a losing 1v1 match up vs longbow ranger /facepalm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > He was right though.. I dont think anyone is taking my challenge because they wont be able to +1 or take advantage of my situational awareness. > > > > > > Your challenge is a waste of time and completely misses the point on why rev can be oppressive in the current meta. > > > > > > No rev is going to 1v1 you in ranked, so the matchup is meaningless. Better challenge two revs to fight you and see how long you last. That's more typical. > > > > Pretty much this > > > > Understand roles of a class in conquest before asking for 1v1s > > I understand roles just fine which was another point tied to the challenge. > The question was designed for the people saying it needs to be nerfed to jump on its defense instead. And thats exactly what happened too. > "It needs to +1"... ok so its like thief and needs to 2v1 someone. Thats a poor state for a DPS class to be in if you ask me. > "It needs to port through LoS" .. so it needs to take advantage of situational awareness because it isnt strong enough like a Warrior or SLB to be able to run face first on to the enemy. > ... > ... > Overall I think thats a pretty sad state for a class... cant hold its own, relies on others and has to abuse situational awareness and play from the shadows to be successful. > Even the mere thought of nerfing this class is baffling to me. > > > Also why is it a bad thing if classes are different and excel at different things? > Lets say these nerfs happen to these ports too, does anyone else realize you"ll only be making the game even more 1 dimensional? > > Another point to add to my previous posts you didnt read. Very good post. Dependence on others is the only thing dev could do. This is called the sense of self-importance for Rev players to make them feel special. They forget that it is only dependent on others. This is bad design. Until they put shiro in place then it is easier to see what needs buff when there will be no probability of greater OP meta shiro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeolus.3615 Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 > @"Falan.1839" said: > > @"Syclantus.4621" said: > > If you don't mind me asking, what is your elo? While rev does have a bit of excess damage atm, your issue does not seem to be related to game balance. Clearly you are not utilising terrain at all or watching the minimap. Watch when phase traversal is being used and time/bait your own cc. > > A double Rev comp even melted thorugh everything in the last mAT on EU, so yeah, git gud doesn't apply It’s a game for casuals, git gud doesn’t apply to the whole game, it’s a game for players to have their performance based on their choose gimmick. Game is actually lacking decent skill design to much mindless burst wars to help carrying momentum’s for everyone have a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog.3716 Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 Yes and it's sad. There is no thematic affiliation. Life siphon is a demonic force. I still don't understand why it's in shiro and not in mallyx. It was possible to develop such an interesting intrigue. Such holes many. P. S. I don't mind shiro. It's just not right when you take a hero in heavy armor and realize that there is more potential on his sneaky side(although if Mallyx was harmonious, it could be more sneaky than a copy of a Thief). As Zenix said on the first page, Riposting Shadows has too much utility for StunBreak skill. Mallyx needs to spend 2 skill on a similar maneuver Pain Absorption and Unyielding Anguish only Shiro will get another 25 endurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZhouX.8742 Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > @"ZhouX.8742" said: > > > @"Ryan.9387" said: > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > @"Erzian.5218" said: > > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > These problems listed in this thread are all problems caused by your lack of awareness and skill in the game. Rev has a few problems with too much damage on sword 5 and shiro F2, but beside that and maybe impossible odds, rev is balanced. > > > > > > > > > > I love posts of this kind! “If we exclude everything that is broken/overturned, the class/build is balanced”. By that standard, there have never been any balance issues. > > > > > Still better than the guy who wants to test the power level of a roamer that is also strong in team fights by 1v1ing it. Guess a-net shouldn’t have nerfed firebrand then, as it couldn’t even kill Druid, which was underperforming at that time. Oh and no idea why scourge was nerfed as it had a losing 1v1 match up vs longbow ranger /facepalm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > He was right though.. I dont think anyone is taking my challenge because they wont be able to +1 or take advantage of my situational awareness. > > > > > > Your challenge is a waste of time and completely misses the point on why rev can be oppressive in the current meta. > > > > > > No rev is going to 1v1 you in ranked, so the matchup is meaningless. Better challenge two revs to fight you and see how long you last. That's more typical. > > > > Pretty much this > > > > Understand roles of a class in conquest before asking for 1v1s > > I understand roles just fine which was another point tied to the challenge. > The question was designed for the people saying it needs to be nerfed to jump on its defense instead. And thats exactly what happened too. > "It needs to +1"... ok so its like thief and needs to 2v1 someone. Thats a poor state for a DPS class to be in if you ask me. > "It needs to port through LoS" .. so it needs to take advantage of situational awareness because it isnt strong enough like a Warrior or SLB to be able to run face first on to the enemy. > ... > ... > Overall I think thats a pretty sad state for a class... cant hold its own, relies on others and has to abuse situational awareness and play from the shadows to be successful. > Even the mere thought of nerfing this class is baffling to me. > > > Also why is it a bad thing if classes are different and excel at different things? > Lets say these nerfs happen to these ports too, does anyone else realize you"ll only be making the game even more 1 dimensional? > > Another point to add to my previous posts you didnt read. But I'm not asking for it be nerfed and well aware you will never face a Rev in 1v1 in ranked so getting people who get on it's defense is irrelevant, it just doesn't happen or shouldn't happen. It provide a role of team pressure and +1 and that's it role, simply put. I can understand if you were talking about classes with a duelist role asking for 1v1 but what you're asking has no relevance whether the person thinks it should be buffed or nerfed. Rev is fine the way it is in terms of it's role and I think I can agree with you on that it shouldn't be nerfed in it's role of play. Of course But the method of setting up such insane burst I think should be looked at and possibly tied to more skills instead of just abusing Shiro spreading out damage across the skills instead of tying them to just a few. That's all. I often overlook that though because you can potentially counter it with massive condi spikes and force them out taking away their pressure somewhat in team situationals. In 1v1 side node play on +1's a rev or thief handles it well because they are for the most part physical specs in duelist (aside from condi mes?), and don't need to worry so much about being condi'd down in +1 situations. I actually agree with you for the most part, just the duel request seems silly given it's not a realistic view of the class role so it shouldn't be represented as such. In reality a double rev scenario isn't so much a class issue but a matchmaking issue and as such , given the low population , I highly doubt will have any solution at all in our future of this game mode unless you want to see 10min queues in order to find enough players throughout an entire day's time to correctly matchup singular classes.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falan.1839 Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 > @"Aeolus.3615" said: > > @"Falan.1839" said: > > > @"Syclantus.4621" said: > > > If you don't mind me asking, what is your elo? While rev does have a bit of excess damage atm, your issue does not seem to be related to game balance. Clearly you are not utilising terrain at all or watching the minimap. Watch when phase traversal is being used and time/bait your own cc. > > > > A double Rev comp even melted thorugh everything in the last mAT on EU, so yeah, git gud doesn't apply > > > It’s a game for casuals, git gud doesn’t apply to the whole game, it’s a game for players to have their performance based on their choose gimmick. > Game is actually lacking decent skill design to much mindless burst wars to help carrying momentum’s for everyone have a chance. That's not true actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 > @"ZhouX.8742" said: > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > @"ZhouX.8742" said: > > > > @"Ryan.9387" said: > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > @"Erzian.5218" said: > > > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > > These problems listed in this thread are all problems caused by your lack of awareness and skill in the game. Rev has a few problems with too much damage on sword 5 and shiro F2, but beside that and maybe impossible odds, rev is balanced. > > > > > > > > > > > > I love posts of this kind! “If we exclude everything that is broken/overturned, the class/build is balanced”. By that standard, there have never been any balance issues. > > > > > > Still better than the guy who wants to test the power level of a roamer that is also strong in team fights by 1v1ing it. Guess a-net shouldn’t have nerfed firebrand then, as it couldn’t even kill Druid, which was underperforming at that time. Oh and no idea why scourge was nerfed as it had a losing 1v1 match up vs longbow ranger /facepalm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He was right though.. I dont think anyone is taking my challenge because they wont be able to +1 or take advantage of my situational awareness. > > > > > > > > Your challenge is a waste of time and completely misses the point on why rev can be oppressive in the current meta. > > > > > > > > No rev is going to 1v1 you in ranked, so the matchup is meaningless. Better challenge two revs to fight you and see how long you last. That's more typical. > > > > > > Pretty much this > > > > > > Understand roles of a class in conquest before asking for 1v1s > > > > I understand roles just fine which was another point tied to the challenge. > > The question was designed for the people saying it needs to be nerfed to jump on its defense instead. And thats exactly what happened too. > > "It needs to +1"... ok so its like thief and needs to 2v1 someone. Thats a poor state for a DPS class to be in if you ask me. > > "It needs to port through LoS" .. so it needs to take advantage of situational awareness because it isnt strong enough like a Warrior or SLB to be able to run face first on to the enemy. > > ... > > ... > > Overall I think thats a pretty sad state for a class... cant hold its own, relies on others and has to abuse situational awareness and play from the shadows to be successful. > > Even the mere thought of nerfing this class is baffling to me. > > > > > > Also why is it a bad thing if classes are different and excel at different things? > > Lets say these nerfs happen to these ports too, does anyone else realize you"ll only be making the game even more 1 dimensional? > > > > Another point to add to my previous posts you didnt read. > > But I'm not asking for it be nerfed and well aware you will never face a Rev in 1v1 in ranked so getting people who get on it's defense is irrelevant, it just doesn't happen or shouldn't happen. It provide a role of team pressure and +1 and that's it role, simply put. > > I can understand if you were talking about classes with a duelist role asking for 1v1 but what you're asking has no relevance whether the person thinks it should be buffed or nerfed. > > Rev is fine the way it is in terms of it's role and I think I can agree with you on that it shouldn't be nerfed in it's role of play. Of course > > But the method of setting up such insane burst I think should be looked at and possibly tied to more skills instead of just abusing Shiro spreading out damage across the skills instead of tying them to just a few. That's all. > > I often overlook that though because you can potentially counter it with massive condi spikes and force them out taking away their pressure somewhat in team situationals. In 1v1 side node play on +1's a rev or thief handles it well because they are for the most part physical specs in duelist (aside from condi mes?), and don't need to worry so much about being condi'd down in +1 situations. > > I actually agree with you for the most part, just the duel request seems silly given it's not a realistic view of the class role so it shouldn't be represented as such. > > In reality a double rev scenario isn't so much a class issue but a matchmaking issue and as such , given the low population , I highly doubt will have any solution at all in our future of this game mode unless you want to see 10min queues in order to find enough players throughout an entire day's time to correctly matchup singular classes.. I made my offer on Necro and Tempest, not exactly a duelist role either. Not one platinum/legendary player wanted to face a silver Tempest. But yea that was more to enforce the point a DPS class cant and wont even duel a support class due to the state of Rev.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 > @"Aeolus.3615" said: > > @"Falan.1839" said: > > > @"Syclantus.4621" said: > > > If you don't mind me asking, what is your elo? While rev does have a bit of excess damage atm, your issue does not seem to be related to game balance. Clearly you are not utilising terrain at all or watching the minimap. Watch when phase traversal is being used and time/bait your own cc. > > > > A double Rev comp even melted thorugh everything in the last mAT on EU, so yeah, git gud doesn't apply > > > It’s a game for casuals, git gud doesn’t apply to the whole game, it’s a game for players to have their performance based on their choose gimmick. > Game is actually lacking decent skill design to much mindless burst wars to help carrying momentum’s for everyone have a chance. "The game is so skillless and bursty. So please don't nerf the most skillless bursty thing in the game right now?!" 10/10 debate skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeolus.3615 Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > @"Aeolus.3615" said: > > > @"Falan.1839" said: > > > > @"Syclantus.4621" said: > > > > If you don't mind me asking, what is your elo? While rev does have a bit of excess damage atm, your issue does not seem to be related to game balance. Clearly you are not utilising terrain at all or watching the minimap. Watch when phase traversal is being used and time/bait your own cc. > > > > > > A double Rev comp even melted thorugh everything in the last mAT on EU, so yeah, git gud doesn't apply > > > > > > It’s a game for casuals, git gud doesn’t apply to the whole game, it’s a game for players to have their performance based on their choose gimmick. > > Game is actually lacking decent skill design to much mindless burst wars to help carrying momentum’s for everyone have a chance. > > "The game is so skillless and bursty. So please don't nerf the most skillless bursty thing in the game right now?!" > > 10/10 debate skills. Game is ment to help on offense, it’s a casual game a lot of players actually play the gamemode and the game due how they don’t need tonthink much besides find a gimmick build to overperform with non complicated rotation and have fun. Thats simple the game working how was intended to do. If Anet cared about pvp they would kept the skill design and team of gw1, less spam more know how and team effort. The game was overflowed with aoe and spam already on HoT and Anet managed to add way more on top of it, they don’t care about decent fights nor team play that died in gw1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog.3716 Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 Wanted to add to Riposting Shadows if Shiro is considered weak to Condi then he should be weak to condi CC and should be punished for a mistake. After that, it would really be called high risk, high reward. This can slow down the chain of realization burst P. S. I wrote this all for fun, it's just an observation and objective comparison. Anet still can't make other things work if they couldn't before. Here's their policy - only meta "Don't like this style choose Warrior don't like war choose Holo etc". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZhouX.8742 Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > @"ZhouX.8742" said: > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > @"ZhouX.8742" said: > > > > > @"Ryan.9387" said: > > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > > @"Erzian.5218" said: > > > > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > > > These problems listed in this thread are all problems caused by your lack of awareness and skill in the game. Rev has a few problems with too much damage on sword 5 and shiro F2, but beside that and maybe impossible odds, rev is balanced. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I love posts of this kind! “If we exclude everything that is broken/overturned, the class/build is balanced”. By that standard, there have never been any balance issues. > > > > > > > Still better than the guy who wants to test the power level of a roamer that is also strong in team fights by 1v1ing it. Guess a-net shouldn’t have nerfed firebrand then, as it couldn’t even kill Druid, which was underperforming at that time. Oh and no idea why scourge was nerfed as it had a losing 1v1 match up vs longbow ranger /facepalm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He was right though.. I dont think anyone is taking my challenge because they wont be able to +1 or take advantage of my situational awareness. > > > > > > > > > > Your challenge is a waste of time and completely misses the point on why rev can be oppressive in the current meta. > > > > > > > > > > No rev is going to 1v1 you in ranked, so the matchup is meaningless. Better challenge two revs to fight you and see how long you last. That's more typical. > > > > > > > > Pretty much this > > > > > > > > Understand roles of a class in conquest before asking for 1v1s > > > > > > I understand roles just fine which was another point tied to the challenge. > > > The question was designed for the people saying it needs to be nerfed to jump on its defense instead. And thats exactly what happened too. > > > "It needs to +1"... ok so its like thief and needs to 2v1 someone. Thats a poor state for a DPS class to be in if you ask me. > > > "It needs to port through LoS" .. so it needs to take advantage of situational awareness because it isnt strong enough like a Warrior or SLB to be able to run face first on to the enemy. > > > ... > > > ... > > > Overall I think thats a pretty sad state for a class... cant hold its own, relies on others and has to abuse situational awareness and play from the shadows to be successful. > > > Even the mere thought of nerfing this class is baffling to me. > > > > > > > > > Also why is it a bad thing if classes are different and excel at different things? > > > Lets say these nerfs happen to these ports too, does anyone else realize you"ll only be making the game even more 1 dimensional? > > > > > > Another point to add to my previous posts you didnt read. > > > > But I'm not asking for it be nerfed and well aware you will never face a Rev in 1v1 in ranked so getting people who get on it's defense is irrelevant, it just doesn't happen or shouldn't happen. It provide a role of team pressure and +1 and that's it role, simply put. > > > > I can understand if you were talking about classes with a duelist role asking for 1v1 but what you're asking has no relevance whether the person thinks it should be buffed or nerfed. > > > > Rev is fine the way it is in terms of it's role and I think I can agree with you on that it shouldn't be nerfed in it's role of play. Of course > > > > But the method of setting up such insane burst I think should be looked at and possibly tied to more skills instead of just abusing Shiro spreading out damage across the skills instead of tying them to just a few. That's all. > > > > I often overlook that though because you can potentially counter it with massive condi spikes and force them out taking away their pressure somewhat in team situationals. In 1v1 side node play on +1's a rev or thief handles it well because they are for the most part physical specs in duelist (aside from condi mes?), and don't need to worry so much about being condi'd down in +1 situations. > > > > I actually agree with you for the most part, just the duel request seems silly given it's not a realistic view of the class role so it shouldn't be represented as such. > > > > In reality a double rev scenario isn't so much a class issue but a matchmaking issue and as such , given the low population , I highly doubt will have any solution at all in our future of this game mode unless you want to see 10min queues in order to find enough players throughout an entire day's time to correctly matchup singular classes.. > > I made my offer on Necro and Tempest, not exactly a duelist role either. > Not one platinum/legendary player wanted to face a silver Tempest. > > But yea that was more to enforce the point a DPS class cant and wont even duel a support class due to the state of Rev.. I think you confuse it not being able to be done vs people just not caring enough to do it in these forums at least against support classes. That along with it being an unrealistic situation for rev to be even doing to begin with , it just almost will never happen in matches lol... So to propose a duel on the forums and then nobody accepts because they simply don't care enough to do it doesn't prove the state of rev, I mean it doesn't prove anything really so I'm not sure what you're trying to prove. If nobody cares about dueling you they just simply won't do it, not because of rev but because, again, they simply don't care. A rev can technically STALL a node until support comes in for a very limited amount of time as you can see Toker do multiple times but that is more of an out of role position and really just unique game IQ that toker has more than the rev class because he knew he needed to do it for his teammates to win the other node, the issue wasn't with rev there it was 2 people got distracted trying to defend node and let Toker's team 1up on another node. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crypto.7609 Posted July 5, 2019 Author Share Posted July 5, 2019 Revenant that has a node with walls can 1v1 and win vs literally any class. Proven by my own personal experience of playing rev and others playing it vs other classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 > @"ZhouX.8742" said: > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > @"ZhouX.8742" said: > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > @"ZhouX.8742" said: > > > > > > @"Ryan.9387" said: > > > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > > > @"Erzian.5218" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said: > > > > > > > > > These problems listed in this thread are all problems caused by your lack of awareness and skill in the game. Rev has a few problems with too much damage on sword 5 and shiro F2, but beside that and maybe impossible odds, rev is balanced. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I love posts of this kind! “If we exclude everything that is broken/overturned, the class/build is balanced”. By that standard, there have never been any balance issues. > > > > > > > > Still better than the guy who wants to test the power level of a roamer that is also strong in team fights by 1v1ing it. Guess a-net shouldn’t have nerfed firebrand then, as it couldn’t even kill Druid, which was underperforming at that time. Oh and no idea why scourge was nerfed as it had a losing 1v1 match up vs longbow ranger /facepalm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He was right though.. I dont think anyone is taking my challenge because they wont be able to +1 or take advantage of my situational awareness. > > > > > > > > > > > > Your challenge is a waste of time and completely misses the point on why rev can be oppressive in the current meta. > > > > > > > > > > > > No rev is going to 1v1 you in ranked, so the matchup is meaningless. Better challenge two revs to fight you and see how long you last. That's more typical. > > > > > > > > > > Pretty much this > > > > > > > > > > Understand roles of a class in conquest before asking for 1v1s > > > > > > > > I understand roles just fine which was another point tied to the challenge. > > > > The question was designed for the people saying it needs to be nerfed to jump on its defense instead. And thats exactly what happened too. > > > > "It needs to +1"... ok so its like thief and needs to 2v1 someone. Thats a poor state for a DPS class to be in if you ask me. > > > > "It needs to port through LoS" .. so it needs to take advantage of situational awareness because it isnt strong enough like a Warrior or SLB to be able to run face first on to the enemy. > > > > ... > > > > ... > > > > Overall I think thats a pretty sad state for a class... cant hold its own, relies on others and has to abuse situational awareness and play from the shadows to be successful. > > > > Even the mere thought of nerfing this class is baffling to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > Also why is it a bad thing if classes are different and excel at different things? > > > > Lets say these nerfs happen to these ports too, does anyone else realize you"ll only be making the game even more 1 dimensional? > > > > > > > > Another point to add to my previous posts you didnt read. > > > > > > But I'm not asking for it be nerfed and well aware you will never face a Rev in 1v1 in ranked so getting people who get on it's defense is irrelevant, it just doesn't happen or shouldn't happen. It provide a role of team pressure and +1 and that's it role, simply put. > > > > > > I can understand if you were talking about classes with a duelist role asking for 1v1 but what you're asking has no relevance whether the person thinks it should be buffed or nerfed. > > > > > > Rev is fine the way it is in terms of it's role and I think I can agree with you on that it shouldn't be nerfed in it's role of play. Of course > > > > > > But the method of setting up such insane burst I think should be looked at and possibly tied to more skills instead of just abusing Shiro spreading out damage across the skills instead of tying them to just a few. That's all. > > > > > > I often overlook that though because you can potentially counter it with massive condi spikes and force them out taking away their pressure somewhat in team situationals. In 1v1 side node play on +1's a rev or thief handles it well because they are for the most part physical specs in duelist (aside from condi mes?), and don't need to worry so much about being condi'd down in +1 situations. > > > > > > I actually agree with you for the most part, just the duel request seems silly given it's not a realistic view of the class role so it shouldn't be represented as such. > > > > > > In reality a double rev scenario isn't so much a class issue but a matchmaking issue and as such , given the low population , I highly doubt will have any solution at all in our future of this game mode unless you want to see 10min queues in order to find enough players throughout an entire day's time to correctly matchup singular classes.. > > > > I made my offer on Necro and Tempest, not exactly a duelist role either. > > Not one platinum/legendary player wanted to face a silver Tempest. > > > > But yea that was more to enforce the point a DPS class cant and wont even duel a support class due to the state of Rev.. > > I think you confuse it not being able to be done vs people just not caring enough to do it in these forums at least against support classes. That along with it being an unrealistic situation for rev to be even doing to begin with , it just almost will never happen in matches lol... So to propose a duel on the forums and then nobody accepts because they simply don't care enough to do it doesn't prove the state of rev, I mean it doesn't prove anything really so I'm not sure what you're trying to prove. If nobody cares about dueling you they just simply won't do it, not because of rev but because, again, they simply don't care. > > A rev can technically STALL a node until support comes in for a very limited amount of time as you can see Toker do multiple times but that is more of an out of role position and really just unique game IQ that toker has more than the rev class because he knew he needed to do it for his teammates to win the other node, the issue wasn't with rev there it was 2 people got distracted trying to defend node and let Toker's team 1up on another node. Which reinforces my previous comments. I just got ganked by 2 thieves so I guess we should nerf core thief too because he used steal on me from behind a wall. I was so caught up in the first thief I didnt see the second coming. Yea.. based off this thread, core thief needs a nerf now too. Might even grab a friend and roll 2 DH meditrappers and add fuel to this fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kahrgan.7401 Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 People saying rev is op, thats choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonkain.3984 Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 Meanwhile rev still needs a hard nerf on physical burst... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buran.3796 Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 > @"dragonkain.3984" said: > Meanwhile rev still needs a hard nerf on physical burst... Revenant lacks any build variety. Is bad at support (because its boon duration with Herald was butchered, while other classes as Guardian got a massive buff in the form of Firebrand). Is bad as holder/tanking, because Jalis/Retribution is overall weak and the class has an eternal weakness against contidions. Is bad doing condition damage, specially after the butchering of Mallyx. Shield, short bow and soon hammer (all of them unused at PvP) are trash. Both core Rev and Renegade remain unused at PvP, and Herald uses the same build as always, just that no longer stacks boon duration, the access to vulnerability and frozen is minimal and Shiro is now a slow guy. Seriously, Rev is the most plain, unidirectional, readable class in PvP. But I would say that at the end the nerfs in might stacks was a godsend, because to compensate the lack of damage I switched from marauder amulet to berserker and I can't belive how utterly useless were that points wasted in health. True eye opener... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 **This is yet another situation where it is easy for a player to misunderstand the difference between something actually being OP, and something that is kind of annoying that is mistaken for being OP.** The reason why Herald is easily mistaken as OP, is because its parameters are greatly skewed in terms of what it is good at and what it is bad at. The things it is good at, it's REALLY REALLY good at, and the things it's bad at, it's $%^&ing terrible at and almost certainly dies whenever caught in those circumstances, with no chance to counter play. The people who are still complaining about things like Herald & Soulbeast DPS, are players who only take notice to those classes when those classes happen to catch them in the circumstance where the Herald is getting to do what he is really good at. And then of course they don't pay attention to the Herald's performance whenever it's being +d with no chance of win rate or disengage, or when the Herald dies with no chance of counter play vs a Condi Build. ^ It's true. People need to start looking at intra-class and conquest game mode dynamics from a much broader point of view before they point fingers and scream OP. This is really important to stress to the community at this point because I think Arenanet is actually listening to this shit lately, which is scary. It really is. But even still, if players MUST cry nerfs at Herald, it isn't the damage output that is the problem. It's the chase potential. Nerfing the damage even by 5% to 10% could remove Herald from viable play. It's a risky change. I'm sure many people would at first think: "Ha, no it wouldn't!" But let me remind you of previous patching decisions where other builds had a slight shave to DPS which resulted in it falling out completely. If the chase potential were slightly nerfed, it would make & break the difference between GOOD Heralds and BAD Heralds. That would be acceptable. But it needs its DPS values guys. It really does. And this is coming from someone who currently mains a Glass Cannon DPS Soulbeast, who's hardest counter is Power Shiro. Just my honest non-bias feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alain.1659 Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 > @"Swagg.9236" said: > Revenant isn't a real class; it's a marketing tool used to sell a half-backed expansion. It's deserves only deletion; turned into scrap for other professions to use. Why would you say something so controversial yet so brave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 Nerf every class hard until pvp's not a skill less spam fest. U literally see the same try hard one shit bursts by the same specs over and over, let alone seeing the same specs over and over lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagg.9236 Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 > @"alain.1659" said: > > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > Revenant isn't a real class; it's a marketing tool used to sell a half-backed expansion. It's deserves only deletion; turned into scrap for other professions to use. > > Why would you say something so controversial yet so brave? Why not? It's not like the game wouldn't have been better if instead of Rev, the other 8 classes got new mechanics and gimmicks which would make them somewhat more unique from each other instead of just adding another class in which ended up being just Thief with cooldowns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alain.1659 Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > @"alain.1659" said: > > > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > > Revenant isn't a real class; it's a marketing tool used to sell a half-backed expansion. It's deserves only deletion; turned into scrap for other professions to use. > > > > Why would you say something so controversial yet so brave? > > Why not? It's not like the game wouldn't have been better if instead of Rev, the other 8 classes got new mechanics and gimmicks which would make them somewhat more unique from each other instead of just adding another class in which ended up being just Thief with cooldowns. No no no. You got me wrong. I totally agree with what you said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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