Legendary Gear

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"HnRkLnXqZ.1870" said:

> > @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > > @"Murkalael.6713" said:

> > > I just don't understand this need to force people into situations that they're not confortable with.

> > If you **choose** to make the weapon, you are not **forced ** to do anything required to complete it. It's all predicated on the initial choice.

> >

> > The fact you don't understand this renders your entire post meaningless.

>

> "Everything you do is your personal free decision. If you do not want to do it, just do not do it."

>

> It is an answer, but a quite ignorant one. It neglects a lot of details and side factors, breaks down every problem to a yes or no answer. As a machine, 0 and 1. Last time I checked, I was not a machine. As a human you can and always should ask questions, doubt and be curious. The 0/1 philosophy is about as smart as hiding under a rock for the rest of your life, because you do not get harmed down there. True, but pointless.

>

> The GoB situation was discussed a lot of times in the past and it will be discussed in the future. I am not very happy with the situation myself, I do feel forced to play WvW as well. Same as the OP I can access 12/13 ingredients of the recipe without much trouble, but the final ingredient is locked behind a game-mode that got rarely updated over the past years. WvW uses a lot of outdated mechanics, the maps are buggy and even game-breaking exploits are fixed soon . As a PvE player, you are limited to the dailies and capturing camps/sentries, until you meet another player. Then you either PvP or try again from the Waypoint. If you need Skirmish Claim Tickets like me, you have to watch a 5:00 minute timer to go to 0 over and over. Sorting sand grains by size is more challenging and exciting than this.

>

> I play WvW, because of the items locked behind it, not because I enjoy the game-mode or like to play it. Every profession that creates something, no matter what, I consider an Artificer. An Artificer lives to see people enjoying his work, not using it because of the lack of alternatives.

 

Being “forced” to do something or not is independent of one’s feeling regarding it. I’m “forced” to do fractals for the fractal legendary backpack but I enjoy doing it. Likewise someone else who “forced” to do the same may not enjoy it.

 

Regardless of either of our personal sentiments towards the activity that we are required to do, we made the choice to go for something that required it. That’s how many games are and life as well.

[Ashen.2907]

I thought that the weapon could be purchased on the TP with currency earned in PvE?

[Sarrs.4831]

> @"Murkalael.6713" said:

>countless hours of boredoooommm

 

Not really countless. It's around 8 per gift.

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Sarrs.4831" said:

> > @"Murkalael.6713" said:

> >countless hours of boredoooommm

>

> Not really countless. It's around 8 per gift.

 

You are correct, but that is without booster.

 

The exact times are even on the wiki:

> The minimum time for completing a reward track (without boosters) is 8h 35m (103 ticks), where 195 points are earned per tick. The overall minimal time to complete a reward track is 4h 20m (52 ticks), where all available boosters increases the points per tick from 195 to 390.

- https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/WvW_Reward_Track

 

That is completely without using potions which add 250 to the current active reward track and 6 are available daily or Instant reward track progress (25 reward track progress) which are rewarded for finishing tiers of the Skirmish Reward track (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Skirmish_reward_track).

 

I fail to see how this is unachievable even for hardcore PvE players. Get a dedicated character for going into WvW. Slap on a Birthday Booster and the Guild Enhancement, finish some of the easy dailies and be done with this in 5-6 hours total. Or join the public blob of your server, run around for 1-2 hours for a couple of evenings and done.

 

Or do the easy WvW dailies, gather 80 potions over the course of 1-3 months. Or just buy the legendary off the TP. Honestly, the hoops others have to go through who detest PvE (not me, lucky enough I enjoy both WvW and PvE) are way higher. Be glad that world completion was removed from WvW. Now THAT was something which locked you out for weeks if you were unlucky.

[Murkalael.6713]

Thank you all, most of you gave me good insights about the theme, so let's clarify some points:

-forced. No poor choice of words, I meant I was "given no choice" to aquire the item, that's why I tried to get a shortcut on the words and "forced" came up. So I would have a choice if I could get the item from PVP, WvW ~~and~~ PVE, so devs aren giving me a choice, to aquire the final product I must force myself to a game mode I don't like.

-TP: I saw the sunrise on tp, but what sense of acomplishment that will give me? I could do as I saw on few areas put a toon with pets / summons and make gold. Or I could craft tons of "Dawn" and sell if another required iten wasn't locked by a reward track. The essence of ilumination can only be aquired once from Hobbs, so I busted my ass to get the recipes and cannot craft one for any other toon I have on same account.

-I'm mostly a solo player, even this is an MMO and intentions are interact with othe people, on overall scenario I do all my stuff alone, if I liked pvp I would stayed in the previous games I quoted in the beggining, because they don't require to buy expansions to play the content I like or dislike. As for cosmetics I don't care either, the fact I'm going to the legendary gear is simply adapt to different situations like make all in one toon that can handle most of the stuff I do.

 

GW2 is an awesome game, but it lacks open minded management to be fit for everone's play style. I'm not a single guy that want one change, I'm sure that there are lots of people wandering why this or that coudn't be this way or that way, but don't step up to ask for it.

 

Again, thanks for all the insights.

 

 

[Sojourner.4621]

> @"Murkalael.6713" said:

> I just don't understand this need to force people into situations that they're not confortable with. Are devs or pvp players afraid that if they don't get a forced reason those maps get deserted? Because back in the days of Ragnarok that was what happened, on pvp maps there were the same 10-12 all day, then all of a sudden devs felt this need to force people on this. These changes are not game breaking, there will always have people interested on this style of gameplay, regardless beeing easy or not to get the item as most said, the slight possibility of pvp prevents me to even entering the map if there are safe zones. I even created my own guild just to stop beeing invited to guilds that do that type of content.

> And to the guy that said I don't want to put effort, well I can proudly say I reached "Dawn" with 100% gathered materials and events without recurring to trade post. Is not an effort thing is sort of way of life, or like asking a skeptic to believe in god or a religious person to deny it, don't get things wrong, I don't want you to change your gameplay / style / daily routine, I just want to have some sort of equality on my own "efforts" without relying on types of game I don't like.

 

Legendary back items are unobtainable outside of PvP, WvW or Fractals which I may not want to do. Legendary Armor is unobtainable outside Raiding, WvW or PvP which I may not want to do. One of the legendary trinkets is raid exclusive which I may not want to do. If I choose not to do the content, I don't expect to get a legendary from it. Every legendary item forces you to do some kind of specific content.

 

And you call it countless hours of boredom, but it actually has a count. Join a half decent zerg or havoc during semi-prime hours and it's about four hours to fill the reward track, which isn't countless at all. It's a minor inconvenience.

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Murkalael.6713" said:

> Thank you all, most of you gave me good insights about the theme, so let's clarify some points:

> -forced. No poor choice of words, I meant I was "given no choice" to aquire the item, that's why I tried to get a shortcut on the words and "forced" came up. So I would have a choice if I could get the item from PVP, WvW ~~and~~ PVE, so devs aren giving me a choice, to aquire the final product I must force myself to a game mode I don't like.

> -TP: I saw the sunrise on tp, but what sense of acomplishment that will give me? I could do as I saw on few areas put a toon with pets / summons and make gold. Or I could craft tons of "Dawn" and sell if another required iten wasn't locked by a reward track. The essence of ilumination can only be aquired once from Hobbs, so I busted my kitten to get the recipes and cannot craft one for any other toon I have on same account.

> -I'm mostly a solo player, even this is an MMO and intentions are interact with othe people, on overall scenario I do all my stuff alone, if I liked pvp I would stayed in the previous games I quoted in the beggining, because they don't require to buy expansions to play the content I like or dislike. As for cosmetics I don't care either, the fact I'm going to the legendary gear is simply adapt to different situations like make all in one toon that can handle most of the stuff I do.

>

> GW2 is an awesome game, but it lacks open minded management to be fit for everone's play style. I'm not a single guy that want one change, I'm sure that there are lots of people wandering why this or that coudn't be this way or that way, but don't step up to ask for it.

>

> Again, thanks for all the insights.

>

>

 

You do have non pvp choices for achieving your goal.

[mindcircus.1506]

> @"HnRkLnXqZ.1870" said:

> It is an answer, but a quite ignorant one. It neglects a lot of details and side factors,

Actually it's a simple one that ignores a lot of excuses for not taking personal responsibility for one's choices and doesn't obfuscate the matter by blaming others.

> If you need Skirmish Claim Tickets like me, you have to watch a 5:00 minute timer to go to 0 over and over. Sorting sand grains by size is more challenging and exciting than this.

Congratulations you have found the least rewarding way to play WvW.

> I play WvW, because of the items locked behind it

You **choose** to play it for the loot, you mean.

[Edelweiss.4261]

> @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > @"HnRkLnXqZ.1870" said:

> > It is an answer, but a quite ignorant one. It neglects a lot of details and side factors,

> Actually it's a simple one that ignores a lot of excuses for not taking personal responsibility for one's choices and doesn't obfuscate the matter by blaming others.

> > If you need Skirmish Claim Tickets like me, you have to watch a 5:00 minute timer to go to 0 over and over. Sorting sand grains by size is more challenging and exciting than this.

> Congratulations you have found the least rewarding way to play WvW.

> > I play WvW, because of the items locked behind it

> You **choose** to play it for the loot, you mean.

 

Honestly, the "personal responsibility" excuse is garbage. You ignore systemic problems and, instead, place all responsibility at the foot of the individual. You can "choose" to forgo an item that provides what should be a baseline feature or "choose" to participate in an activity that you find unenjoyable. Yes, there is a "choice", but a choice between two terrible options is no better than having no choice at all. The system that set up this non-choice is poorly designed and should be fixed. Ignoring systemic flaws while blaming the individual shows a lack consideration that is appalling.

[mindcircus.1506]

> @"Edelweiss.4261" said:

> Honestly, the "personal responsibility" excuse is garbage. You ignore systemic problems and, instead, place all responsibility at the foot of the individual. You can "choose" to forgo an item that provides what should be a baseline feature or "choose" to participate in an activity that you find unenjoyable.

A Legendary item should be a baseline feature?

Come on now....

[Voltekka.2375]

Buy the weapon form tp, buy all raids (raid armor doesnt need gift of battle, if i am not mistaken). There. No "pvp" whatsoever.

[MachineManXX.9746]

> @"Edelweiss.4261" said:

> > @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > > @"HnRkLnXqZ.1870" said:

> > > It is an answer, but a quite ignorant one. It neglects a lot of details and side factors,

> > Actually it's a simple one that ignores a lot of excuses for not taking personal responsibility for one's choices and doesn't obfuscate the matter by blaming others.

> > > If you need Skirmish Claim Tickets like me, you have to watch a 5:00 minute timer to go to 0 over and over. Sorting sand grains by size is more challenging and exciting than this.

> > Congratulations you have found the least rewarding way to play WvW.

> > > I play WvW, because of the items locked behind it

> > You **choose** to play it for the loot, you mean.

>

> Honestly, the "personal responsibility" excuse is garbage. You ignore systemic problems and, instead, place all responsibility at the foot of the individual. You can "choose" to forgo an item that provides what should be a baseline feature or "choose" to participate in an activity that you find unenjoyable. Yes, there is a "choice", but a choice between two terrible options is no better than having no choice at all. The system that set up this non-choice is poorly designed and should be fixed. Ignoring systemic flaws while blaming the individual shows a lack consideration that is appalling.

 

Everything that has ANY requirement would fall into this "systematic flaws" category then. If you choose to make a legendary, you then choose to do the requirements. If you choose to do ANYTHING, you choose to do the requirements. What makes the GoB flawed and yet every other thing needed is not?

 

So, either A. You want everything you desire granted to you on a wish because that is the only way to 100% eliminate any unfair or unenjoyable activities.

Or B. You feel god like and YOU get to decide what is enjoyable for everyone.

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

Raid players can stick to their game mode, but are still forced to do PvE and WvW to make legendary armor.

 

PvE players can't focus entirely on the game mode they enjoy to earn legendary armor if at all.

 

PvP and WvW players can stay in their game modes and earn all their legendary armor without leaving it.

 

... Wait. Something isn't right here.

[mindcircus.1506]

> @"Eloc Freidon.5692" said:

> Raid players can stick to their game mode, but are still forced to do PvE and WvW to make legendary armor.

>

> PvE players can't focus entirely on the game mode they enjoy to earn legendary armor if at all.

 

Raids are PvE content.

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

> @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > @"Eloc Freidon.5692" said:

> > Raid players can stick to their game mode, but are still forced to do PvE and WvW to make legendary armor.

> >

> > PvE players can't focus entirely on the game mode they enjoy to earn legendary armor if at all.

>

> Raids are PvE content.

 

Raids don't play like the rest of PvE, otherwise they would be considered an essential part with everything else PvE content provides. Its a separate game mode just like how PvP and WvW are separate from each other.

[mindcircus.1506]

> @"Eloc Freidon.5692" said:

> Raids don't play like the rest of PvE, otherwise they would be considered an essential part with everything else PvE content provides.

They are. That's why they are required for legendary armor

>Its a separate game mode just like how PvP and WvW are separate from each other.

This is an arbitrary line you are drawing to argue for a shiny you want but don't want to invest the time/effort in to get.

 

 

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

> @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > @"Eloc Freidon.5692" said:

> > Raids don't play like the rest of PvE, otherwise they would be considered an essential part with everything else PvE content provides.

> They are. That's why they are required for legendary armor

> >Its a separate game mode just like how PvP and WvW are separate from each other.

> This is an arbitrary line you are drawing to argue for a shiny you want but don't want to invest the time/effort in to get.

>

>

 

Again, Raids are separated from the rest of the PvE experience so it isn't PvE at all.

 

Your assumption that I don't want to invest the time or effort is concluded from absolutely nothing other than you projecting.

 

PvP never has to step outside of itself to complete its legendary armor as well as WvW being able to stay in it without touching anything else. If PvP and WvW can have an "arbitrary" line drawn between them, than there's no reason Raids and PvE shouldn't have one.

[crepuscular.9047]

> @"miraude.2107" said:

> I am a hater of pvp as well and I have a workaround for you to get the gift of battle, granted it will take way longer than what would be acceptable because it's RNG but

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Karmic_Converter

> specifically the possibility of getting this item

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Box_of_WvW_Supplies.

> I've been grabbing it whenever it's popped up because yeah don't want to do pvp and am almost halfway through the track after a few months. I know it will take longer than just doing pvp but it helps me avoid the frustration and not make me hate the game for forcing me to pvp.

 

that only increases your wvw rank as i'm aware, doesnt fill your reward track, unless you mean the 'gain 2 rank' daily for the 2 reward track pots?

[Voltekka.2375]

> @"Eloc Freidon.5692" said:

> Raid players can stick to their game mode, but are still forced to do PvE and WvW to make legendary armor.

>

> PvE players can't focus entirely on the game mode they enjoy to earn legendary armor if at all.

>

> PvP and WvW players can stay in their game modes and earn all their legendary armor without leaving it.

>

> ... Wait. Something isn't right here.

 

How are raid players required to do wvw for raid armor?

[Etria.3642]

They are not. PVE yes, wvw no.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"Eloc Freidon.5692" said:

> > @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > > @"Eloc Freidon.5692" said:

> > > Raids don't play like the rest of PvE, otherwise they would be considered an essential part with everything else PvE content provides.

> > They are. That's why they are required for legendary armor

> > >Its a separate game mode just like how PvP and WvW are separate from each other.

> > This is an arbitrary line you are drawing to argue for a shiny you want but don't want to invest the time/effort in to get.

> >

> >

>

> Again, Raids are separated from the rest of the PvE experience so it isn't PvE at all.

>

> Your assumption that I don't want to invest the time or effort is concluded from absolutely nothing other than you projecting.

>

> PvP never has to step outside of itself to complete its legendary armor as well as WvW being able to stay in it without touching anything else. If PvP and WvW can have an "arbitrary" line drawn between them, than there's no reason Raids and PvE shouldn't have one.

 

[Raids are PvE](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_versus_environment). Unless you consider fractals and dungeons to not be PvE either.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

> @"Murkalael.6713" said:

>need to force people

 

The word you are looking for is "incentivize". I've commented on this several times over various posts, but it seems to me, ANET has purposefully designed the game to get people to at least dabble in every aspect of the game.

 

You want gold? Play high level Fractals / sPvP

You want transmutation charges, tomes of knowledge, or dyes? Play WvW / sPvP

You want legendary armor? Play WvW or Raid

You want to craft legendary items? Play WvW and open world / Fractals for all the required components

 

I really don't think this is an accident. In nearly every case I can find, there are easier means to get certain things from specific game modes. IF you don't like that game mode, then of course you can still get these items, just at a slower pace from the other game modes. The one exception though is of course Legendary items, which are the most optional, yet prestigious, items in GW2.

 

So PvE players don't want to have to go into WvW for Gift of Battle.

WvW players don't want to have to get World Completion / Run Fractals to craft Legendary items either.

 

But a player who does PvE Fractals, OW and/or Raiding AND WvW/sPvP, well, they have efficient access to everything this game has to offer.

[Cameron.6450]

> @"Eloc Freidon.5692" said:

> > @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > > @"Eloc Freidon.5692" said:

> > > Raids don't play like the rest of PvE, otherwise they would be considered an essential part with everything else PvE content provides.

> > They are. That's why they are required for legendary armor

> > >Its a separate game mode just like how PvP and WvW are separate from each other.

> > This is an arbitrary line you are drawing to argue for a shiny you want but don't want to invest the time/effort in to get.

> >

> >

>

> Again, Raids are separated from the rest of the PvE experience so it isn't PvE at all.

>

> Your assumption that I don't want to invest the time or effort is concluded from absolutely nothing other than you projecting.

>

> PvP never has to step outside of itself to complete its legendary armor as well as WvW being able to stay in it without touching anything else. If PvP and WvW can have an "arbitrary" line drawn between them, than there's no reason Raids and PvE shouldn't have one.

 

The separation between wvw and pvp is not arbitrary though. They are two separate areas of the game, actions in one mode have no effect on the other, gear is not transferable between them, they have different balance and separate experience and rank systems.

 

Raids share the same gear setup as everything else in pve, has the same skill balance as everything else, operates with the same experience system, and when you strip away all the bells and whistles, has the same core gameplay, ie hit an AI-controlled enemy until it's dead, or complete specific tasks while fighting AI-controlled enemies. Functionally there is very little difference between a world boss and a raid boss. The only differences are:

 

* Numbers: A world boss has the limit of 60 or so people, whatever the map cap is these days. A raid boss is set at 10. Both have a limit, it's just scaled down for raids. That's not a fundamental difference in gameplay.

* Enrage timers: Plenty of open world pve events and bosses in particular have a time limit as well. For all the complaining about the time limit in raids, I've seen far more world bosses fail by running out of time than raid bosses enraging. Again, not a significant difference in terms of core gameplay.

* Inability to res people who are fully dead: This I'll grant as a difference between other areas of pve and raids, but it's a very minor point to rest on if you want to declare that raids are a completely separate game mode to everything else in pve.

 

Now, raids are HARD compared to most of the rest of pve, and a lot of people don't like them as a result. That's fine, nothing wrong with that, but they are still a part of PVE whether somebody likes them or not. I hate doing open world hearts, but that doesn't mean I'm going to declare that they are a different type of content to the rest of PVE as a whole. You can split PVE somewhat into open world and instanced PVE, but it's still PVE, and still the same game mode, just different areas within that game mode.

 

I'm not fundamentally opposed to having more ways to get legendary armor, but the argument that PVE has no legendary armor because raids are not PVE is a non-starter.

[Strider Pj.2193]

I’ve said it before: make WvW map completion count for the Map completion component of the legendary, (and I mean ANY legendary) then we can talk. Short of that, enjoy.

 

I also note that our forum poster who loves to mention that there is a forum search function hasn’t posted yet.

 

This thread has been done far more times than the number of actual hours you need in WvW to get your GoB.

 

Use the search.

[miraude.2107]

> @"crepuscular.9047" said:

> > @"miraude.2107" said:

> > I am a hater of pvp as well and I have a workaround for you to get the gift of battle, granted it will take way longer than what would be acceptable because it's RNG but

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Karmic_Converter

> > specifically the possibility of getting this item

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Box_of_WvW_Supplies.

> > I've been grabbing it whenever it's popped up because yeah don't want to do pvp and am almost halfway through the track after a few months. I know it will take longer than just doing pvp but it helps me avoid the frustration and not make me hate the game for forcing me to pvp.

>

> that only increases your wvw rank as i'm aware, doesnt fill your reward track, unless you mean the 'gain 2 rank' daily for the 2 reward track pots?

 

I'm not sure as I haven't kept an eye on dailies that well so that may be the case. Next time I have it pop up I'll have to check the dailies and see what is going on if it just raises rank or not. I do know it's as I said that it's really slow because of rng though I've never been in a hurry for a legendary and don't log in every day.