People want to know … why the high cost?

[Strider Pj.2193]

Legendary runes seem to be available for all game modes, with no requirement for Raids, PvP nor WvW.

 

I wonder if that is a small part of why it’s more expensive.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> Why? Two reasons.

>

> + ANet wants to maintain the value of materials on the TP. With the glut of drops whose worth is _only_ in their salvage value, the supply of mats is through the roof. In order to maintain value for at least some of the materials, there needs to be demand. It's a lot more resource friendly for developers to offer a few high cost items to stimulate demand than it would be to offer more items at lower cost.

> + ANet wants to maintain player investment in the game. High-cost items serve two purposes that play into that desire. Not only do high-cost items require more time to farm materials (or more likely farm gold to buy them), they also make it more likely the players who do spend time getting them will want to stick around to enjoy the results of their efforts.

>

>

 

No the ridiculous amount of farm, grind, farm like crazy every time anything drops in game now is imo, more likely to drive many more players away.. this is not supposed to be a second job it's supposed to be a release from the everyday stress of real life, an escape and the gemstore is where we should be tempted to spend coin not hoping we get so fed up with the constant non stop grind requirement that we buy gems to convert and use other players as our saviour.

The inherent use of farm maps since Silverwastes came into the game just to keep players here a bit longer has grown tiresome for many and it has only brought about the glut of materials in game and large gold/hr pools, instead of actually making meaningful content that players enjoy enough to keep replaying. Farming maps are a job that players are being passively aggressively pushed to play out endlessly just to reach one goal only to then find there are 3 more similar goals in which you have to rinse and repeat the same farming over and over.. players will and probably are tiring of it and to me it shows there just isn't enough creativity left other than ding " lets push another endless grind on them".

A full set of Leggy upgrades is so stupidly overpriced compared to what it is your actually putting them onto and what they actually give you.... it's smacks in the face of desperation to me and that ship began sailing when the requiem BS came into game.

The sad thing is this kind of rubbish detracts from the fun the content and festivals can actually be, but its swallowed up with the push to farm, grind, farm a lot more until it burns players desire to login.... and it's gotten to be so prevalent now it just makes me turn off the desire to spend any real money in the gemstore fullstop.

[Ototo.3214]

> @"Khisanth.2948" said:

> > @"Ototo.3214" said:

> > I wouldn't worry too much about the cost until it settles down a bit. I kinda agree that it's a bit expensive for not having any visual effects to go with it, but it is a legendary thing. It happens. Iirc, the newest raid ring costs 6 balls of dark energy, or whatever they're called, which is how many it takes to make a full armor set. I find that a bit ridiculous for a ring too but that's just the way it is.

>

> Raids already have the cheapest option for getting the Ball of Dark Energy at 5g+150 magnetite. Everywhere else it will be 27g+ and pretty much every legendary after the original set requires the Ball of Dark Energy.

 

I'm aware of that, I was just saying that 6 Balls of Dark Energy is needed for an entire set of legendary armor all together yet then you also need 6 more Balls of Dark Energy just for 1 ring. Is it super expensive nowadays? No, but it's still a bit nonsensical. Yes, most legendaries need a Ball of Dark Energy, but most don't need more than 1 for 1 piece of gear. That's really all I was saying lol

 

Edit: Almost forgot, the same can be said for the Legendary Divination requirement. You need 150 for 1 ring while you can get a full set of armor for 150 Insights.

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > Why? Two reasons.

> >

> > + ANet wants to maintain the value of materials on the TP. With the glut of drops whose worth is _only_ in their salvage value, the supply of mats is through the roof. In order to maintain value for at least some of the materials, there needs to be demand. It's a lot more resource friendly for developers to offer a few high cost items to stimulate demand than it would be to offer more items at lower cost.

> > + ANet wants to maintain player investment in the game. High-cost items serve two purposes that play into that desire. Not only do high-cost items require more time to farm materials (or more likely farm gold to buy them), they also make it more likely the players who do spend time getting them will want to stick around to enjoy the results of their efforts.

> >

> >

>

> No the ridiculous amount of farm, grind, farm like crazy every time anything drops in game now is imo, more likely to drive many more players away.. this is not supposed to be a second job it's supposed to be a release from the everyday stress of real life, an escape and the gemstore is where we should be tempted to spend coin not hoping we get so fed up with the constant non stop grind requirement that we buy gems to convert and use other players as our saviour.

> The inherent use of farm maps since Silverwastes came into the game just to keep players here a bit longer has grown tiresome for many and it has only brought about the glut of materials in game and large gold/hr pools, instead of actually making meaningful content that players enjoy enough to keep replaying. Farming maps are a job that players are being passively aggressively pushed to play out endlessly just to reach one goal only to then find there are 3 more similar goals in which you have to rinse and repeat the same farming over and over.. players will and probably are tiring of it and to me it shows there just isn't enough creativity left other than ding " lets push another endless grind on them".

> A full set of Leggy upgrades is so stupidly overpriced compared to what it is your actually putting them onto and what they actually give you.... it's smacks in the face of desperation to me and that ship began sailing when the requiem BS came into game.

> The sad thing is this kind of rubbish detracts from the fun the content and festivals can actually be, but its swallowed up with the push to farm, grind, farm a lot more until it burns players desire to login.... and it's gotten to be so prevalent now it just makes me turn off the desire to spend any real money in the gemstore fullstop.

 

Indigo is likely right. Those are what Anet wants.

 

The reasons he give's are likely exactly why Anet implements things like this.

 

I am inclined to think that you are right as well. This implementation is definitely off-putting to some (undefined) portion of the playerbase (including me). The decision to make a chore of what could be an adventure dismays me. It certainly detracts from the fun IMO.

[Mil.3562]

So is this the direction ANet is gong from now on?

 

Now almost every good stuff in this game are reachable only by hardcore grinding, paying thousands of gold, gambling on RNG?

 

Is GW3 in the work?

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"Mil.3562" said:

> So is this the direction ANet is gong from now on?

>

> Now almost every good stuff in this game are reachable only by hardcore grinding, paying thousands of gold, gambling on RNG?

>

> The signs are here. GW3 is in the works.

 

Eerrmm.. really GW3.

More like, it needs to meet monthly, quarterly financials just to be able to push the next content push in GW2 and this is the only creative throw of the dice they seem to be able to come up with this past couple of years.

Unless you think they are going to reach out to all those investors again and push another heap of debt at a time when NC Soft have already cut out much of, if not all of the "other" projects from ANET.

I like your passion and pipedreams are fun, but GW3 nah I would hazard a guess if any other plans are being pulled together it will be to look at another title entirely. Guild Wars can only go so far as all good things must surely come to an end some time.

Now it's about keeping this product alive for as long as it can until the time is right and the finances are there.

[mindcircus.1506]

> @"Game of Bones.8975" said:

> They would be right, but for all the time, effort, and money the Devs put into coding if no-one is using them; isn’t it a waste?

So the argument is "They should cost half as much because Anet made them".

Solid.

> I ran a poll to see if people were crafting the over-sized storage bags. Most people’s comments (when negative) were about the overly high cost with little return.

And the result of your poll showed that those who didn't see the cost as being worth it did not craft them?

Shocking.

> I say reduce the overall cost by at least half, create a set of increasingly harder quests to complete through the core worlds, and let people enjoy the fruits of the Dev’s coding labor.

Please share the formula you used to come up with your recommendation of "at least half". This number must have a real reason behind it and isnt just FYA...

Right?

 

 

[knite.1542]

Bust out those credit cards boys!

[Pifil.5193]

I think one reason for the cost is because they're running out of sinks to put into the game. Coalescence, Aurora and Vision each cost pretty much the same as a Gen1 weapon, when they add Jeweller crafted Legendary Trinkets you can bet they'll be similarly expensive.

 

The Legendary Armour is cheaper in gold than the Legendary Runes which seems like a bad idea to me. No doubt ArenaNet consider the sPvP, WvW and raid currencies needed for Legendary Armour as a greater part of the cost than a lot of people around here but the cost of these Legendary Upgrades seem far higher than they should be, especially if people swap weapons a lot, multiple sigils for different weapon sets will get very expensive very fast.

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

If each rune and sigil only needs 50 of each mote and 15 mystic clovers, I think the price is fine. All the other mats look spot on. 20 and 30 mystic clovers being a bit much, combined with how effectively good the stat selecting UI is, getting legendary runes and sigils are effectively worthless. Selecting the rune and sigil you want from your inventory in the window is as easy as a legendary rune/sigil **if not easier** because they all fit without scrolling through all the stat blocks.

[Cristalyan.5728]

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> No legendary has ever been worth the money to make it just for the convenience alone. This isn't something new. They ALL are long term goals to work towards and as such come with the price tag. They also exist as a means to regulate economy.

 

I agree with the statement regarding the legendary. In this particular case (the runes) I cannot agree with the part **"They also exist as a means to regulate economy"**.

Because, if the crafting price is too high for the degree of convenience it (the rune) offers, then nobody - or in the best case very few players - will craft the runes. And in this case the impact on the economy will be small - close to zero in my opinion.

 

So, to quote the OP, why this high cost?

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > Why? Two reasons.

> >

> > + ANet wants to maintain the value of materials on the TP. With the glut of drops whose worth is _only_ in their salvage value, the supply of mats is through the roof. In order to maintain value for at least some of the materials, there needs to be demand. It's a lot more resource friendly for developers to offer a few high cost items to stimulate demand than it would be to offer more items at lower cost.

> > + ANet wants to maintain player investment in the game. High-cost items serve two purposes that play into that desire. Not only do high-cost items require more time to farm materials (or more likely farm gold to buy them), they also make it more likely the players who do spend time getting them will want to stick around to enjoy the results of their efforts.

> >

>

> No the ridiculous amount of farm, grind, farm like crazy every time anything drops in game now is imo, more likely to drive many more players away.. this is not supposed to be a second job it's supposed to be a release from the everyday stress of real life, an escape and the gemstore is where we should be tempted to spend coin not hoping we get so fed up with the constant non stop grind requirement that we buy gems to convert and use other players as our saviour.

> The inherent use of farm maps since Silverwastes came into the game just to keep players here a bit longer has grown tiresome for many and it has only brought about the glut of materials in game and large gold/hr pools, instead of actually making meaningful content that players enjoy enough to keep replaying. Farming maps are a job that players are being passively aggressively pushed to play out endlessly just to reach one goal only to then find there are 3 more similar goals in which you have to rinse and repeat the same farming over and over.. players will and probably are tiring of it and to me it shows there just isn't enough creativity left other than ding " lets push another endless grind on them".

> A full set of Leggy upgrades is so stupidly overpriced compared to what it is your actually putting them onto and what they actually give you.... it's smacks in the face of desperation to me and that ship began sailing when the requiem BS came into game.

> The sad thing is this kind of rubbish detracts from the fun the content and festivals can actually be, but its swallowed up with the push to farm, grind, farm a lot more until it burns players desire to login.... and it's gotten to be so prevalent now it just makes me turn off the desire to spend any real money in the gemstore fullstop.

 

There is precious little that ANet can do to make doing something fun on the fiftieth repetition if it became rote after the fifth. The MMO business model is rooted in keeping players playing. So, developers are going to use whatever tactics they can to make that happen.

 

Any _fun_ or _adventure_ tied to the actual gameplay comes from the mind of the player interacting with the immersive aspects of the game's design. If you believe that the festivals, etc. could be fun if played without the carrot, then ignore the carrot. If you don't want to ignore the carrot, don't expect the developer to make it easier to get. That's against their interest. Losing players disillusioned with "grind" and losing players to a lack of things to keep them busy is the same thing from a business perspective.

[leunamsil.6742]

My biggest fear if the price stays the same until the release, is that once its released anet won't change it in order to not offend people that already crafted it. Same deal with a lot of stuff, the last exemple i can remember is skyscale map currency: it would have made a lot more sence if it was 100 map currency for skyscale and 250 for vision, but once people had gotten the mount, even if a lot of people complained about the amount they couldn't change the number needed to not offend the ones that already did the farm.

 

This will be a feature that is purely for convinience since it has no visual effects, but there are better ways to get that convinience. Legendary armor/weapons you can change the runes any time for free, its cheaper and has visual effects. The permenant extractor is cheaper and easier to use than that UI.

 

I hope Anet realises this before it goes live or, i suspect, that it will be a highly underutilized system

[Game of Bones.8975]

> @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > @"Game of Bones.8975" said:

> > They would be right, but for all the time, effort, and money the Devs put into coding if no-one is using them; isn’t it a waste?

> So the argument is "They should cost half as much because Anet made them".

> Solid.

> > I ran a poll to see if people were crafting the over-sized storage bags. Most people’s comments (when negative) were about the overly high cost with little return.

> And the result of your poll showed that those who didn't see the cost as being worth it did not craft them?

> Shocking.

> > I say reduce the overall cost by at least half, create a set of increasingly harder quests to complete through the core worlds, and let people enjoy the fruits of the Dev’s coding labor.

> Please share the formula you used to come up with your recommendation of "at least half". This number must have a real reason behind it and isnt just FYA...

> Right?

>

>

 

> @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > @"Game of Bones.8975" said:

> > They would be right, but for all the time, effort, and money the Devs put into coding if no-one is using them; isn’t it a waste?

> So the argument is "They should cost half as much because Anet made them".

> Solid.

> > I ran a poll to see if people were crafting the over-sized storage bags. Most people’s comments (when negative) were about the overly high cost with little return.

> And the result of your poll showed that those who didn't see the cost as being worth it did not craft them?

> Shocking.

> > I say reduce the overall cost by at least half, create a set of increasingly harder quests to complete through the core worlds, and let people enjoy the fruits of the Dev’s coding labor.

> Please share the formula you used to come up with your recommendation of "at least half". This number must have a real reason behind it and isnt just FYA...

> Right?

>

>

 

My argument for lowering the cost and getting a higher return is sound.

If you make something and no one buys it, regardless how good it is, you end up with 0.

If an item costs 100 and one person buys it you get 100.

If the price is reduced to 75 (but add in a quest to compensate) and two people buy, you end up with 150.

I know there has to be a high initial material cost to justify calling it a Legendary.

Soon only the VERY hardcore people will try to craft the Runes/Sigils (mainly due to the cost).

My main issue is to dramatically lower the needed materials and offset with quests.

[Shadowmoon.7986]

The price is right for a luxury item. People complain about it costing more than legendary armor, but remember legendary armor requires either skill in raids, rank 2000 in wvw or alot of spvp seasons? (never looked into spvp versions). Because effort level is so low, gold cost should be higher.

Did anyone complain at the cost of the legendary ring. This thing has a high gold and skill cost. And ascended rings are dirt cheap.

Will you ever get a return on investment? Hell no.

How many luxury item does this follow? A ton, home instance nodes, infinte salvaging, infinite gathering, hell the infinite repair canister cost the same as 1 legendary rune.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"Game of Bones.8975" said:

> > @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > > @"Game of Bones.8975" said:

> > > They would be right, but for all the time, effort, and money the Devs put into coding if no-one is using them; isn’t it a waste?

> > So the argument is "They should cost half as much because Anet made them".

> > Solid.

> > > I ran a poll to see if people were crafting the over-sized storage bags. Most people’s comments (when negative) were about the overly high cost with little return.

> > And the result of your poll showed that those who didn't see the cost as being worth it did not craft them?

> > Shocking.

> > > I say reduce the overall cost by at least half, create a set of increasingly harder quests to complete through the core worlds, and let people enjoy the fruits of the Dev’s coding labor.

> > Please share the formula you used to come up with your recommendation of "at least half". This number must have a real reason behind it and isnt just FYA...

> > Right?

> >

> >

>

> > @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > > @"Game of Bones.8975" said:

> > > They would be right, but for all the time, effort, and money the Devs put into coding if no-one is using them; isn’t it a waste?

> > So the argument is "They should cost half as much because Anet made them".

> > Solid.

> > > I ran a poll to see if people were crafting the over-sized storage bags. Most people’s comments (when negative) were about the overly high cost with little return.

> > And the result of your poll showed that those who didn't see the cost as being worth it did not craft them?

> > Shocking.

> > > I say reduce the overall cost by at least half, create a set of increasingly harder quests to complete through the core worlds, and let people enjoy the fruits of the Dev’s coding labor.

> > Please share the formula you used to come up with your recommendation of "at least half". This number must have a real reason behind it and isnt just FYA...

> > Right?

> >

> >

>

> My argument for lowering the cost and getting a higher return is sound.

> If you make something and no one buys it, regardless how good it is, you end up with 0.

> If an item costs 100 and one person buys it you get 100.

> If the price is reduced to 75 (but add in a quest to compensate) and two people buy, you end up with 150.

> I know there has to be a high initial material cost to justify calling it a Legendary.

> Soon only the VERY hardcore people will try to craft the Runes/Sigils (mainly due to the cost).

> My main issue is to dramatically lower the needed materials and offset with quests.

 

That won't yield the financial gains all these high cost, starved supply, high qty creative bean counter ideas are rooted around.

As I said earlier.. this just smacks at desperation and has become been the go to business model for 18months or so now.

But the choice is there, to just not bother with it, go elsewhere or get used to it and resign yourself to having GW2 as your second job.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> Why? Two reasons.

>

> + ANet wants to maintain the value of materials on the TP. With the glut of drops whose worth is _only_ in their salvage value, the supply of mats is through the roof. In order to maintain value for at least some of the materials, there needs to be demand. It's a lot more resource friendly for developers to offer a few high cost items to stimulate demand than it would be to offer more items at lower cost.

> + ANet wants to maintain player investment in the game. High-cost items serve two purposes that play into that desire. Not only do high-cost items require more time to farm materials (or more likely farm gold to buy them), they also make it more likely the players who do spend time getting them will want to stick around to enjoy the results of their efforts.

Well, in this case they've completely killed any investment i might have had. I've taken one look at the cost of crafting those, laughed hard, and said "nope". That's for someone with several legendaries already (some of whose were crafted only because i felt they would complement one of my characters' looks).

 

 

[XenesisII.1540]

1200g to make a legendary sigil.... 852g per legendary rune...

Don't think I've spent that much on sigil and runes since the release of the game.

Good luck with your overpriced investment guys.

 

[Ototo.3214]

Thinking about it more, I do feel like they really need to either lower the mat cost or give it a visual effect. Otherwise it's a bit ridiculous, they cost the same/more than other legendaries, yet lack half of what a legendary offers: the aesthetic.

[Shadowmoon.7986]

> @"XenesisII.1540" said:

> 1200g to make a legendary sigil.... 852g per legendary rune...

> Don't think I've spent that much on sigil and runes since the release of the game.

> Good luck with your overpriced investment guys.

>

 

What are you using to to these figures. The latest tally had them at 550 and 500 respectively.

[XenesisII.1540]

> @"Shadowmoon.7986" said:

> > @"XenesisII.1540" said:

> > 1200g to make a legendary sigil.... 852g per legendary rune...

> > Don't think I've spent that much on sigil and runes since the release of the game.

> > Good luck with your overpriced investment guys.

> >

>

> What are you using to to these figures. The latest tally had them at 550 and 500 respectively.

 

I looked at these on the wiki unless I'm looking at the wrong things..

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/index.php?title=Special:RunQuery/Base_ingredients_query&Base_ingredients%5Bitem%5D=Legendary%20Sigil&Base_ingredients%5Bid%5D=&Base_ingredients%5Bquantity%5D=1&wpRunQuery=true

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/index.php?title=Special:RunQuery/Base_ingredients_query&Base_ingredients%5Bitem%5D=Legendary%20Rune&Base_ingredients%5Bid%5D=9153601&Base_ingredients%5Bdiscipline%5D=Mystic+forge&Base_ingredients%5Bquantity%5D=1&wpRunQuery=true

 

Edit: Mystic coins make up a chunk of the price which are used for the clovers which can be had in alternative cheaper ways I guess. Still seems expensive, but I'm not their targeted audience for this anyways.

 

[Voltekka.2375]

Pvp armor needs some shards, wvw skirmish tickets, pve legendary insights. All are timegated. Leggy runes dont, as far as we know. So, there is your answer. And it seems fair.

[Shadowmoon.7986]

Your basing it on mystic aspects and motes costing 10g each, but the chat code recipees have their costs around 2.5 g.

That removes 7.5g x 50 and 75 from the cost.

[Pifil.5193]

> @"Shadowmoon.7986" said:

> Your basing it on mystic aspects costing 10g each, but the chat code recipe have their cost around 2.5 g.

> That removes 7.5g x 50 from the cost.

 

The current TP cost is about 10g buy order 15 sell order, where did you see 2.5g? Has the recipe been unlocked?

[ZDragon.3046]

The devs dont particularly dictate the price of an item. While they do hold the cards to be able to change some factors im about to list its still largely on the community (the players) to choose what an item is and is not worth.

The community of players as a whole do this based on a few things.

 

- How rare is the item in question

- How difficult is it to obtain

- How much demand is there for that item

- Is the item acquirement time gated in anyway (this makes it much more rare)

- Is the item used for few or singular purpose or for many different purposes.

- What is the items main purpose

- Is the items stock count holding steady, being consumed faster than its gained or gained faster than its consumed.

 

All of these things add to the price of an item you would buy on the TP regardless of what that item is.

 

Ideally in the case of a lot of items lets say "silk scraps" for example. There is always a over flooding amount of these things on the tp at any time and its rare that the demand for them rises higher than the incoming stock supply of them. They are not hard to obtain or limited in any way either. So the price for them will always remain low. Unless something sets them in high demand by changing one of the above factors.

 

But by comparison if you look at something like "Mystic Coins" They are much more rare as you can only get them via log in rewards once a week or so. They are used in a great deal of high end equipment such as legendaries making them a high demand item. So their price is naturally high. What do you think would happen if anet made mystic coins drop from casual mobs. The prices would drop faster than rain in a hurricane. Not because anet said "We want to change the price" But more so because the community no longer sees it as a valuable item.

 

Ideally the small minority of people who have the amount of gold to make shifts in the TP stocks control what the price of an item is the rest of the general population may or may not bump prices slightly up or down from there. Anet kind of just does what they are always doing which is normal for them. The only time anet does something to try and cause a price compression or inflation is when they run an event that calls for donating a certain item.

Dont count legendaries a way of trying to clean up the market. IF anet wanted to knock something off the market they would find a much more tempting way to do it than legendary runes and sigils as these only appeal to a small niche portion of people atm based on the twitter, reddit, and forums response to their release ive seen so far.