Tear Down Damage and Nerf Some Skills

[Sovereign.1093]

> @"subversiontwo.7501" said:

> > @"Sovereign.1093" said:

> > nerfing damage only helps the zerg.

> >

> > a small group of tanky players cant kill a bigger group of tanky players. but a small group of damage will have a chance to beat a small group or large group of tanky/hybrid or damage players.

> >

> **Let me continue that rant by qouting Sov:** In my experience it has been the complete opposite. It is easier for a smaller group to thrive against a larger group in a tanky meta (and a melee one) because the things that separates players of different experience levels (both in terms of "skill" and organisation) are easier to work around in lower impact, reach- and spread metas. A higher tank means you need to focus your damage more. That favours a better organised group. A melee meta can be countered in more ways, for example, things like kiting/clouding counters requires a higher degree of self-reliance.

>

> Then there is also perhaps the most important bit here given the balance of the game: People always neglect the value of underdimensioned counter play. I remember illustrating it with the example of heals before. Back in vanilla healing was far more rare but the fact that it was rare and made most run-of-the-mill underutilizing it made sure that players or groups that dedicated into it (even if the scaling for it wasn't there) had heals when the other groups did not. It was a powerful tool to potentially use.

>

> The balance of damage to damage reduction has a similar relationship: Dmg% outscales DR% so much now that it is very difficult to comp surprisingly around sustain. It is much more difficult for a relatively "good" player to build in the opposite and utilizing that. Whereas in tanky metas you have a better relationship between tank and perceived ability. Good groups drop defenses in order to gain advantages in offenses. It ties into the first point made. If the opposing ball doesn't just spam 1200r oneshots around itself it's easier to bet on your ability to avoid slightly more damage than your opponent and building that into slight damage advantages that you can use to further nudge up your edge in applying that damage (through better focus and timing).

>

> That's why, for example, in the height of the HoT melee ball meta in 2016, the best guilds ran full souped up glass counters and prevailed. The basic "meta" may have been fairly similar to now, but the super-meta, seen for example in GvG tournaments, was all about different counters to it. If you compare the 2016 GvG tournament to the 2019 one, most guilds in 2016 played not only different comps but different concepts alltogether and those evolved as the tournament went on. The 2019 EU tournament was all stale with everyone virtually playing the same way with little to no evolution between group stages and play off.

>

> The ludicrous condi-ship meta that followed leading up to PoF and the first few months of PoF just had no balance and thus no available counter play. That is still what we see dominating the playing field. Since, some opportunity for certain counter play has opened up (WoD and Shade nerfs, however miss-implemented) but the envelope is still very narrow and, as mentioned, has so much more of a barrier of entry that as a whole the meta remains exclusive and thus more destructive.

>

> I believe, of all the posts in this thread, Voltekka was early on onto an aspect of that discussion. Ranged high damage metas make casual followers feel empowered and happy. People are getting bags and it is nice to just login, find a tag and go farm some bags. The problem with such an approach to balance is that it is slowly suffocating the mode from within and people will not react to that until it hits critical mass. The game mode is limping on with lower rebirth and fewer commanders and the problem with that will not be seen until there are so few players left looking to be constructive that there will not be enough tags left to follow for anyone. The bag farmers will stop comming and the mode will devolve back into an first-months vanilla small scale FFA with whatever remains, some sort of primordial soup. It is not impossible that will see a rebuild into new communities from that but it is certainly not worth it to lose all the structure, communities and player activity that has built up over time especially since the rebirth is so much lower now than it was back at what was essentially launch and the balance will remain so much worse.

>

> Now, my argument here is not that it is wrong to cater to new players. My argument is that it is wrong to build around an expectation that players should come in and consume the content of agents instead encouraging agency. The game mode does not need new players, it needs new players that do stuff. It has no interest of players who come to join stuff if there is nothing to join. If we build the mode around players to be fed they will be hungry if there is no one to feed them. Even if they could scrape by with the food that remains, the crumbs off the Arena Net table, they need to be encouraged to feed themselves. That implies grouping up, guilding up and tagging up.

>

> The hidden tag thing is the same kind of reverse logic (or counter-result to what is first seen as positive in bringing players in and including them). The hidden tag is good for the game because it encourages agency and makes people who do try to group up, guild up and tag up to create content happy. New and casual players can be (expected to be-) that too and not just content consumers expecting to be fed. In fact, one of the most challenging things about attempting to do something right now is that it is difficult to find players to help you because they all just expect to be fed. I'm actively trying to group with people but I'm having trouble finding players who want to do such basic things as joining a party, a guild and using a microphone to talk and socialize.

>

> Similarily, I often find myself in 50-man squads where the commander often wonders why s/he has a monologue, where there's maybe 5/50 players talking at all over 2-3 hours and where 75% of whoever joins the voice coms have their mics turned off. That behaviour is new to this game mode. I've not seen it at all before 2018/2019. We've seen squads being more and more diverse of guild tags (ie., fewer and fewer players from the same guilds playing together in pickups) over a long time but the whole awkward silence thing is new to me. That's not being new, casual or included to me, that's being a leech and antisocial in a social online game and game mode that is mostly about player-created content, inclusion should be inclusion in content generation. We see that behaviour because that is the behaviour the current direction of balance and developer content attention encourages. That has to change. Hopefully it does with August 30, Alliances and hidden tags. Those things at least has some promise to that effect and back towards that direction.

>

 

I can respect this, I used to believe in this for the past 5 years, but I changed my mind. It doesn't work. :/

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"fewfield.7802" said:

> > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > How hard do we really need to curbstomp staff ele?

> > Whats next? Nerf fireball so it only hits 1 target? Remove the evade off Burning Retreat?

>

> just tear down a bit of meteor dmg is enough.

 

Meteor is one of the skills where damage should be strong.

 

Sounds more like u can’t notice red rings due how game forces players fights in One blob to reduce effort, this as a issue if ur commander and your allies take delay step side moving from aoe hot zone and nearby players will even take more time to dodge or accompany players kiting aoe hot zones.

 

 

Besides with that much size of groups the spam must be awfull that u can’t even know what it is hitting u due some specs visual clutter and their capabilities to keep their spam alive.

 

Just google for slayers Xd gw2 on google for sovereign videos I think.

[DeadlySynz.3471]

Damage isn't out of control; defense is. When you use Berserker stats and start whacking a typical high defense target in WvW, the damage numbers are abysmal. Yet that same high defense target can 2 shot you, but would take you somewhere between 10-20 hits to drop the tanky target; makes no sense.

 

OP, your problem isn't with the amount of damage being dealt, it's the amount of times you can be hit by different players at once. This is the same problem people overlook with Scourge shades. People complain about Shades being too strong (and still do), yet the damage they do on their own to a single target is abysmal. People's problem is they are being hit by multiple Scourges at once.

 

If you're running with a typical big group and you run in the fray and drop like a stone; it's not because someone hit you with a 15k-20k hit (unless your glass), it's because you're likely hit with 2-3 Rev CoRs, 2-3 Scourge Shades, probably a meteor shower, and who knows how many guardians and warriors mashing #1.

 

Again, if you're running around in glass, expect to get decimated in a couple hits. You could show us videos; but many of us I'm sure would like to see completely unedited videos of damage you'd typically take in 15-30 min period.. not edited out highlights of you taking 15k-20k. Something somebody trying to show how rangers were OP were a little bit ago, posted a video, and showed just exactly how much their damage sucked in real time.

 

If there is a damage nerf to come, it needs to come to those in tanky gear. If one persists on wearing tanking gear (like basically all melee train builds do), they are the ones who should be doing little to no damage. Currently it makes little sense that a tanky person can still dish out large amounts of damage.

 

Looking back I see you play a zerk ele or zerk scourge; so expect to get annihilated. Why anyone would play a zerk scourge is beyond me, that's just a death sentence, you must love playing on the edge. Hammer rev is also not spammable, they are bound by energy. If one tries to spam it, they'll be out of energy faster than they can blink. Now if the energy requirement were removed, damage would either need to be increased or all the cool downs lowered. That will bring on a completely new set of problems. You definitely do not want things semi-spammable like sword 5, and shiro teleport.

[Ubi.4136]

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > @"fewfield.7802" said:

> > > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > > How hard do we really need to curbstomp staff ele?

> > > Whats next? Nerf fireball so it only hits 1 target? Remove the evade off Burning Retreat?

> >

> > just tear down a bit of meteor dmg is enough.

>

> Meteor is one of the skills where damage should be strong.

>

> Sounds more like u can’t notice red rings due how game forces players fights in One blob to reduce effort, this as a issue if ur commander and your allies take delay step side moving from aoe hot zone and nearby players will even take more time to dodge or accompany players kiting aoe hot zones.

>

>

> Besides with that much size of groups the spam must be awfull that u can’t even know what it is hitting u due some specs visual clutter and their capabilities to keep their spam alive.

>

> Just google for slayers Xd gw2 on google for sovereign videos I think.

 

The only issue with meteors damage, is that you can stack the entire damage, into a single point. It only hits where players can stand, unlike every other aoe in the game, and that is what needs to be adjusted. If you have half on the wall, and half on the side of the wall, than half the attacks should miss, not all hit in half the radius.

[alain.1659]

Sorry but at this point if you are having problems with meteor it is your fault. If your opponents are having problems it is their fault. Find better opponents.

[Noell.1369]

> @"bluberblasen.9684" said:

> > @"fewfield.7802" said:

> > Elementalist range damage is a bit too high and fatal.

>

> thank you for this friendly reminder that there are STILL people playing elementalists !

>

> oh boy you have no clue ... ele are the worst class in WvW and pvp ... ( yes there are some roamer weaver which thinks that their unkillable no damage applying build is great - its not.)

>

>

>

>

>

 

Elementalists so bad their AoE crits for 8-11k.

 

> @"Mini Crinny.6190" said:

> > @"fewfield.7802" said:

> > > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > > How hard do we really need to curbstomp staff ele?

> > > Whats next? Nerf fireball so it only hits 1 target? Remove the evade off Burning Retreat?

> >

> > just tear down a bit of meteor dmg is enough.

>

> just dont stand in the MASSIVE Aoe Field that you can see

 

Aoe isn't the only issue when you have Rangers/ Warriors, etc. with their one shot builds. Even Revenant's teleport Hammer skill does about 11.5k crit through 2.3k Toughness and 3.5k Armor. The problem is they need to fix Power/Crit/Ferocity, and make Toughness/Armor work properly or even have how much Dmg% you can take from crit/dmg through those stats. If they like where this Power/Crit/Ferocity one shot builds are, they may as well bring back condition damage and buff it. You can only dodge so much. There are so many red dot AoE spammers in WvWvW that all the red dots on the ground spread around are bigger than contested zones. Before you even dodge, at times, you're already in the down state. So don't even come in here writing "Learn to Dodge", "All you have to do is just Dodge" nonsense.

[Svarty.8019]

> @"fewfield.7802" said:

> I have been playing wvw for years. I feel like at this state of the game wvw is not fun anymore since scourges were released.

 

I concur.

It was a mess before PoF, and PoF made that mess 10x worse. I am playing something else now, but I'd like to visit GW2 again some day, but not while _this_ Balance Team's idea of fun is in place.

 

[hunkamania.7561]

We've been complaining about the power creep for years in WVW and we've fallen on deaf ears. They need to nerf a whole load of stuff in wvw and focus on some wvw only nerfs but i've lost all hope that will ever happen.

[Mini Crinny.6190]

> @"Noell.1369" said:

> > @"bluberblasen.9684" said:

> > > @"fewfield.7802" said:

> > > Elementalist range damage is a bit too high and fatal.

> >

> > thank you for this friendly reminder that there are STILL people playing elementalists !

> >

> > oh boy you have no clue ... ele are the worst class in WvW and pvp ... ( yes there are some roamer weaver which thinks that their unkillable no damage applying build is great - its not.)

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> Elementalists so bad their AoE crits for 8-11k.

>

> > @"Mini Crinny.6190" said:

> > > @"fewfield.7802" said:

> > > > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > > > How hard do we really need to curbstomp staff ele?

> > > > Whats next? Nerf fireball so it only hits 1 target? Remove the evade off Burning Retreat?

> > >

> > > just tear down a bit of meteor dmg is enough.

> >

> > just dont stand in the MASSIVE Aoe Field that you can see

>

> Aoe isn't the only issue when you have Rangers/ Warriors, etc. with their one shot builds. Even Revenant's teleport Hammer skill does about 11.5k crit through 2.3k Toughness and 3.5k Armor. The problem is they need to fix Power/Crit/Ferocity, and make Toughness/Armor work properly or even have how much Dmg% you can take from crit/dmg through those stats. If they like where this Power/Crit/Ferocity one shot builds are, they may as well bring back condition damage and buff it. You can only dodge so much. There are so many red dot AoE spammers in WvWvW that all the red dots on the ground spread around are bigger than contested zones. Before you even dodge, at times, you're already in the down state. So don't even come in here writing "Learn to Dodge", "All you have to do is just Dodge" nonsense.

 

You can always step outside the area to avoid the bomb but if you stand in the bomb and die to it, no point complaining about how strong skills are just because you can't see what is coming and can't dodge, this is a l2p issue

[Noell.1369]

> @"Mini Crinny.6190" said:

> > @"Noell.1369" said:

> > > @"bluberblasen.9684" said:

> > > > @"fewfield.7802" said:

> > > > Elementalist range damage is a bit too high and fatal.

> > >

> > > thank you for this friendly reminder that there are STILL people playing elementalists !

> > >

> > > oh boy you have no clue ... ele are the worst class in WvW and pvp ... ( yes there are some roamer weaver which thinks that their unkillable no damage applying build is great - its not.)

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Elementalists so bad their AoE crits for 8-11k.

> >

> > > @"Mini Crinny.6190" said:

> > > > @"fewfield.7802" said:

> > > > > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > > > > How hard do we really need to curbstomp staff ele?

> > > > > Whats next? Nerf fireball so it only hits 1 target? Remove the evade off Burning Retreat?

> > > >

> > > > just tear down a bit of meteor dmg is enough.

> > >

> > > just dont stand in the MASSIVE Aoe Field that you can see

> >

> > Aoe isn't the only issue when you have Rangers/ Warriors, etc. with their one shot builds. Even Revenant's teleport Hammer skill does about 11.5k crit through 2.3k Toughness and 3.5k Armor. The problem is they need to fix Power/Crit/Ferocity, and make Toughness/Armor work properly or even have how much Dmg% you can take from crit/dmg through those stats. If they like where this Power/Crit/Ferocity one shot builds are, they may as well bring back condition damage and buff it. You can only dodge so much. There are so many red dot AoE spammers in WvWvW that all the red dots on the ground spread around are bigger than contested zones. Before you even dodge, at times, you're already in the down state. So don't even come in here writing "Learn to Dodge", "All you have to do is just Dodge" nonsense.

>

> You can always step outside the area to avoid the bomb but if you stand in the bomb and die to it, no point complaining about how strong skills are just because you can't see what is coming and can't dodge, this is a l2p issue

 

Not a learn to play issue, but continue to think that like others.

[subversiontwo.7501]

> @"DeadlySynz.3471" said:

> Damage isn't out of control; defense is.

Nothing in the behaviour of players suggests that. If defense was superior you would see more attempts to tank. Simply stating a conflicting oppinion like that when others have posted why damage is out of control is like stating that water isn't wet.

 

> OP, your problem isn't with the amount of damage being dealt, it's the amount of times you can be hit by different players at once.

No, it really isn't, it's a question of the amount of dmg% modifiers to dr% modifiers in the current iteration of stats and traits. There are daily examples of even Minstrel tanks being hit by certain abilities for five-digit numbers.

 

> not edited out highlights of you taking 15k-20k

If those are registered on 3.5k AR and/or with protection whatever edits are made to the showcase are quite irrelevant. They should never occur. It doesn't matter if a oneshot is once in a million (or more like every now and then, as things stand), it's still something that shouldn't exist at all. It's why things like backstab thieves and shatter mesmers have always been a topic of discussion and often touched upon when the application of it has become too easy. In those situations it has also held true for the discourse even when it hasn't be "true oneshots" and were hardly ever involved in a discussion of burst on tanky targets.

 

> If there is a damage nerf to come, it needs to come to those in tanky gear.

Well obviously it will come to everyone. The fact that someone in tanky gear can still hit like a fullzerk in vanilla is yet another side- and example of the same problem.

 

> Why anyone would play a zerk scourge is beyond me, that's just a death sentence, you must love playing on the edge.

Well, yes, most players on zerk play on the edge, that's sort of the purpose of zerk, no? Why people do it on scourge may have something to do with how you can make things like spinal shiver hit for 4k base damage, before all modifiers are considered. It is in fact one of the abilities you can go around and oneshot people with. A good player can routinely see 15k shivers and can outright delete things like meteoring weavers. It does come with the edge though, indeed. So it is not necessarily better to play Zerk builds than, say, Cele builds for most players. In the hands of a good player however, it does have its uses.

 

>People complain about Shades being too strong (and still do), yet the damage they do on their own to a single target is abysmal.

I don't think anyone complains about the damage of Shades, that's hardly been the case since it was adjusted early into PoF. It's more so that Shades do so many things at once so easily, including things that probably were not intended (essentially everything you need offensively) so it just screams to people to stack them. It's an instant cast, with unintended reach, broad radius and enhanced cap that does both types of damage, both types of control and rips. If you don't need other players to do (and coordinate!) those things that allows you to just stack more Shades and you will have to look at Shades from that perspective of inflation. It's not like anyone complains about Shades in solo roaming. It's the application and scaling of them that is ridiculous - furthermore what sort of behaviour that fosters. I don't think most people who complain about the meta overall does so because they feel like certain classes do to much damage and rather because it is rather boring to see people being so reluctant to attempt to pass opposing groups "screens". That is boring gameplay to attempt to lead or break.

 

So shades/meta and damage balance are essentially two different discussions with only some overlap (shades encourages pirateships and overtuned damage encourages pirateships; pirateships are generally boring to lead, support in and diversify under and as has been mentioned before: tend to be more exclusive in terms of squad composition). They also discourage aggressive/risky gameplay on the group level, which isn't really what the mode needs (even if overtuned range damage can be rewarding for initiative on a personal level in a group, eg., zerk shivers). Initiatives should be rewarded, not overcaution.

 

[subversiontwo.7501]

As an aside but equally important to damage in this damage discussion is the underlying boon/condition/cleanse/rip systems. When a direction and approach like Anet has taken has been taken with more and more of those things relative the base value of core stats that too causes snowball effects that are quite negative for a mode like WvW. With all this spam it is much less common to see comebacks today. If one side takes a couple of losses things spiral from there. Full wipes are more common in shorter succession now and fights are determined earlier. That also contributes to all this overbearing caution.

 

In the past it was more common to see comebacks, outcomes being determined later and losing sides limping away to regroup instead of the staggered full wipes that are common now, when outcomes are determined early, snowballs out of comeback opportunities and shaves a losing side down to a snaking regroup from spawn. None of that is very conducive to fighting.

[Adamarc.7463]

With meteor shower, they should revert the change they made in 2018 and spread the damage evenly over the duration of the skill rather than front-loading it on to the first few hits. It is not good game play that an elementalist is relying on a single skill (which makes up a huge percentage of their damage) to be relevant today and it would be better if the elementalist needed to more regularly attune to the other elements to be effective. Undoing the nerf to lava font would also help make an elementalist a little bit less reliant on meteor shower for damage.

[supreme.3602]

> @"fewfield.7802" said:

> The original point is overall dmg is too high and fights were ended too fast. that's why i made this post.

>And I am on WSR the most 2nd stacked server on EU.

 

The fact that you're on the same server as me makes me want to poke my head with a drill. Elementalist damage is not high, mate. The fights end fast because the people here know what they are doing.

 

And I really don't get it. Why do people insist on nerfing this class all the time? Just dodge and l2p.

 

[sephiroth.4217]

> @"Noell.1369" said:

> > @"Mini Crinny.6190" said:

> > > @"Noell.1369" said:

> > > > @"bluberblasen.9684" said:

> > > > > @"fewfield.7802" said:

> > > > > Elementalist range damage is a bit too high and fatal.

> > > >

> > > > thank you for this friendly reminder that there are STILL people playing elementalists !

> > > >

> > > > oh boy you have no clue ... ele are the worst class in WvW and pvp ... ( yes there are some roamer weaver which thinks that their unkillable no damage applying build is great - its not.)

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Elementalists so bad their AoE crits for 8-11k.

> > >

> > > > @"Mini Crinny.6190" said:

> > > > > @"fewfield.7802" said:

> > > > > > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > > > > > How hard do we really need to curbstomp staff ele?

> > > > > > Whats next? Nerf fireball so it only hits 1 target? Remove the evade off Burning Retreat?

> > > > >

> > > > > just tear down a bit of meteor dmg is enough.

> > > >

> > > > just dont stand in the MASSIVE Aoe Field that you can see

> > >

> > > Aoe isn't the only issue when you have Rangers/ Warriors, etc. with their one shot builds. Even Revenant's teleport Hammer skill does about 11.5k crit through 2.3k Toughness and 3.5k Armor. The problem is they need to fix Power/Crit/Ferocity, and make Toughness/Armor work properly or even have how much Dmg% you can take from crit/dmg through those stats. If they like where this Power/Crit/Ferocity one shot builds are, they may as well bring back condition damage and buff it. You can only dodge so much. There are so many red dot AoE spammers in WvWvW that all the red dots on the ground spread around are bigger than contested zones. Before you even dodge, at times, you're already in the down state. So don't even come in here writing "Learn to Dodge", "All you have to do is just Dodge" nonsense.

> >

> > You can always step outside the area to avoid the bomb but if you stand in the bomb and die to it, no point complaining about how strong skills are just because you can't see what is coming and can't dodge, this is a l2p issue

>

> Not a learn to play issue, but continue to think that like others.

 

You're right... its not a learn to play issue because literally everyone knows how to use movement skills to step outside of the big red circle.

 

You could literally press the autorun button.

[Sleepwalker.1398]

Dodge or move out of the circle is all fine and good, but if a mesmer catches you with a pull, not only are you gonna eat some meteor but the scourge bomb too.

[XenesisII.1540]

That gives you the opportunity to complain about two other things, the mesmer pull could also use a nerf, and the guardians need more auto pump stability.

[supreme.3602]

If you get pulled by a mesmer, then you deserve to die.

[Sovereign.1093]

situation here is

 

1. ops team is blob

2. ops team has experience

3. ops team has meta builds

4. enemy less experienced

5. enemy not as many

 

this is not a talk about 1 v 1.

multiple tanky toons hitting the same target at the same time will result to enemy down and ko.

 

you all know this if uv played as a team.

 

no nerfing can be done against good team work. its a disparity of nos. and skill.

 

37 atleast to 70 players doing 200 damage will still be atleast 70k dps. unless you're a war with autor endure pain or ranger, you will not live if they get you.

[Justine.6351]

> @"Sleepwalker.1398" said:

> Dodge or move out of the circle is all fine and good, but if a mesmer catches you with a pull, not only are you gonna eat some meteor but the scourge bomb too.

 

Rofl...and now it's "I got hit by skills, it must be op cause I should never get hit cause I too important!"

 

"It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose, that is life."

 

- captain picard

[Sovereign.1093]

> @"Dahir.4158" said:

> > @"fewfield.7802" said:

> > The original point is overall dmg is too high and fights were ended too fast. that's why i made this post.

> >And I am on WSR the most 2nd stacked server on EU.

>

> The fact that you're on the same server as me makes me want to poke my head with a drill. Elementalist damage is not high, mate. The fights end fast because the people here know what they are doing.

>

> And I really don't get it. Why do people insist on nerfing this class all the time? Just dodge and l2p.

>

 

well if he gets his wish, it will be worse. us damage players will no longer be able to dent tanky players and therefore less will avoid many.

 

enjoy having no flghts

[Sleepwalker.1398]

> @"Justine.6351" said:

> > @"Sleepwalker.1398" said:

> > Dodge or move out of the circle is all fine and good, but if a mesmer catches you with a pull, not only are you gonna eat some meteor but the scourge bomb too.

>

> Rofl...and now it's "I got hit by skills, it must be op cause I should never get hit cause I too important!"

>

> "It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose, that is life."

>

> - captain picard

 

Think you misunderstood, that is the type of gameplay i use when i play mes.

And its fun seeing ppl with no stab trying to escape and getting pulled back into the bomb.

[Knighthonor.4061]

I would like more healing and defense honestly. But Damage nerf would be good as well

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Ubi.4136" said:

> > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > > @"fewfield.7802" said:

> > > > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > > > How hard do we really need to curbstomp staff ele?

> > > > Whats next? Nerf fireball so it only hits 1 target? Remove the evade off Burning Retreat?

> > >

> > > just tear down a bit of meteor dmg is enough.

> >

> > Meteor is one of the skills where damage should be strong.

> >

> > Sounds more like u can’t notice red rings due how game forces players fights in One blob to reduce effort, this as a issue if ur commander and your allies take delay step side moving from aoe hot zone and nearby players will even take more time to dodge or accompany players kiting aoe hot zones.

> >

> >

> > Besides with that much size of groups the spam must be awfull that u can’t even know what it is hitting u due some specs visual clutter and their capabilities to keep their spam alive.

> >

> > Just google for slayers Xd gw2 on google for sovereign videos I think.

>

> The only issue with meteors damage, is that you can stack the entire damage, into a single point. It only hits where players can stand, unlike every other aoe in the game, and that is what needs to be adjusted. If you have half on the wall, and half on the side of the wall, than half the attacks should miss, not all hit in half the radius.

 

That and the LoS and some other skill will behave quite stupidly when casted towards a wall.

 

For some reason being in a wall is a dangerous place, and puts players on the offensive in better place.

 

 

The higher ground in this case kills u... I don’t think cares to solve the wall defense offense issue, it could be to much time/money consuming for just a very small improvement.

 

 

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

> @"fewfield.7802" said:

> I have been playing wvw for years. I feel like at this state of the game wvw is not fun anymore since scourges were released.

>

> The Ability to simultaneously range bomb and self-bomb is to OP. I wish there's a change that scourges can only bomb one spot at a time.

> I am playing scourge myself sometimes. It was fun for farming some noobs but it has been killing the overall gameplay for too long.

>

> One more thing, Rev and Elementalist range damage is a bit too high and fatal.

> Fights were a lot more fun when Melee train was meta. Now It's all about range.

> Fatal Damage should come from Group Coordination and Sync-Bomb not just from a few range classes.

> So please lower the range damage and make the game more melee and fun.

>

> If you have no clue what I am talking about, I can show you some vids of the current state and the the old once the overall damage was lower and no scourge.

>

> Please think about it Anet if you still wanna fix the game.

 

wow I can say so much about this hope I find an end.

 

**About classes:**

 

Elementalist range damge has been nerfed a lot , Metorshower does increased less dmg each puls now per target I think it was -20%. Every Elemenstis will say this skills sucks now and need to be reverted because it is major dmg skill for the staff ele and need to be reverted back (glype of storm even more but this another story). Ele did fall out of the wvw meta since the beginning of the mele train meta. By the way they also reduced the number of targets per puls from 5 to 3 for a lot of aoes of the ele.

 

Rev vs Ele well Rev wins because both have 1200 range skills ele still a bit more because of his radius of metorshower but one doge forwards of rev using all his range skill and the ele is in downstate and can't evade because he is rooted with his skill and rev can then doge backwards out of the meteorshower again. This why everyone says revs hammer skills have too much range.

 

In general the problem with WvW and PvP every built which is in PvE meta does in the other modes nearly one shot dmg. Scourge , glass Ele and Rev with hammer doing a lot of dmg but they aren't the top Beserker Warrior with axe axe or Burn Guardian doing much more in wvw.

 

I'm for general 30% dmg reduction in WvW and PvP

 

**About the wvw fight meta**:

 

I agree the whole movement speed of the zerg has increased a lot not only through mounts but the whole fight as a whole the current meta isn't neither a range fight nor a melee fight (at least in the Eu in top ppk/gvg gilds). What the attacker is doing is going stealth move in the range of 1200 and bomb you(and then melee the rest of you). This is really hard to counter when reveal of the scrapper was still a thing you could counter a bit by moving around or through them , you can also run backwards but that works only when you know they are here, in a lot of keeps zergs can push through the gate and wipe so the enemy zerg inside their own keep with out them have any chance.

 

The really hard but is when you try to out move the enemy I don't know it is in gilds but in publics zergs the 1/3 to a half can't follow any more the movement of the commanders ( so far I heard on the other servers it is the same). When you lose sight for a half second of him he/she is already on the other side of the bridge.

 

It in so far better because this fights are now not brain afk melee trains but a lot of people can't follow this any more and also a lot of players are still conditioned on the melee train meta even some commanders just push when they seeing an opening I'm not sure what range the necros have with the current weapons but if revs and necro had only 900 range you would have more room to do things differently .

 

Also because it extremely hard to defend against stealth bomb some guild like mentioned now have ultra-tank meta with around 90% dmg reduction or more as meta. Even the normal Zergs running now with 2 Support/Healer meaning meaning 5 Scrapper and 5 Heal Tempest or groups with 2 Guardian . The ulltra-tank meta runs with 1 Fb and 1 Core Guardian(at least this what I heard)

 

**About the WvW content itself:**

 

First in general we have :

Roamer

Roamer Gilds

PPT Gilds

PPK Gilds

GvG Gilds

 

What changed is at least on my server we have only PPK/ GvG gilds and a few Roamer. I also see this on other server PPT will be ignored entirely so WvW as conquest or siege war is pretty much dead. We had even the case that out main keep on our homes was under siege and the commader of the public zerg said:' I don't care I want to play GvG here with the public zerg'

 

The problem is the WXP and the karma isn't much worth any more also for defending you don't get that much because of this people started to make their own content out of it to the fury of those who still trying to do things the way it should be.