Chiuvitas.8946 Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 this is regarding https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/83741/chaotic-interruption-temporarily-disabled-in-pvp Chaotic interruption wasn't a viable build, i, as a mesmer main, hate playing it because it revolves around enemy stability and dodges (which can be unpredictable and both of those are beyond your control as a player so it's not viable cus its up to your enemy) and even if you actually interrupt people you don't have any damage cus mirage has been over-nerfed and it does no damage without illusions +dueling traitlines and having chaotic interruption means you won't have good damage, it's as simple as that. It doesn't matter if the build was popular or annoying because it wasn't good or viable. There aren't high rated mirages with it because its shit. I haven't played for a month and i could still 1v3 a random chaotic interruption mirage just yesterday in my 2nd game the problem here isn't that CI is disabled, i don't care about CI. The problem is that the current balance squad has a massive grudge against mesmer which is easily obvious if you look at all the patch notes for the last year. Mesmer has been over-nerfed to a point where it's the worst class in the game. Mes stopped winning monthly ATs for 10 months now? it's consistently the least represented class on high elo (along with elementalist, sometimes mesmers were more and sometimes less) . The class got hit with a ton of unjustified nerfs that still make no sense. Axe was completely broken and rendered unusable because the mirage ambush of it is borderline bugged (and it won't ever get fixed). The problem here is that THEY HATE MESMER AND THEY AREN'T AFRAID TO SHOW IT and that's just wrong as a game developer. Mesmer isn't the most played class by any means, chaotic interruption isn't the most used build in the game, it doesn't have lack of counterplay - it's extremely easy to counterplay it. The trait has been in the game for years. Every single high elo game has 4-8 thief/revenant players (combined from both teams) and it has been this way for over a year but you didn't disable steal or phase traversal for the last year and now that there are occasionally games with 2-3 mirages playing and unviable build you decided to intervene? it's pathetic. Holo, revenant are way more played than mirage and have been way more played than mirage for a long ass time but that somehow doesn't seem to matter ? when is this ridiculous mesmer bullying going to end? In one patch you nerf the damage by 67% in the other patch you nerf it by 50% in the other patch you completely remove stuff without giving any compensation and this keeps going on over and over , it's blatantly obvious that your current devs hate mesmer but this is a shitty mentality. And again, chaotic interruption build wasn't even viable and i'd know cus ive played both mesmer with and without it. It lacks damage and it doesn't put enough pressure, it's only "okay" while outnumbering and it's still worse than a thief or a revenant in that situation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NICENIKESHOE.7128 Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 Agree that mesmer is underrepresented in high elo/AT, though I wouldn't say dev has pure hate on mesmer. Its simply due to volume of people complaining that caused the dev to disable traits with no contingencies, which is a rather shortsighted way to balance classes. Fundamentally the FOTM builds on lower tiers will always get the most hate. Unless there's an actual balance team that can nerf/buff builds within 2-3 weeks, there's no way to prevent people jumping onto the next bandwagon and cause grief on opinionated folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 > @"NICENIKESHOE.7128" said: > Agree that mesmer is underrepresented in high elo/AT, though I wouldn't say dev has pure hate on mesmer. Its simply due to volume of people complaining that caused the dev to disable traits with no contingencies, which is a rather shortsighted way to balance classes. > > Fundamentally the FOTM builds will always get the most hate. Unless there's an actual balance team that can nerf/buff builds within 2-3 weeks, there's no way to prevent people jumping onto the next bandwagon and cause grief on opinionated folks. Ofc there is a way to prevent people jumping from class to class...simply don't create huge powercreep classes , players themselves should acknowledge a problematic build when it shows up and no fully embrace it . When you see a build popping out of everywhere at every level of competition...you know something is off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zipiyzape.3781 Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 you are mad you can't just press random buttons and kill 2-3 people while being unkillable? now they just need to tone down the holos and maybe pvp will be enjoyable again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayga.3192 Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 > @"zipiyzape.3781" said: > you are mad you can't just press random buttons and kill 2-3 people while being unkillable? > > now they just need to tone down the holos and maybe pvp will be enjoyable again What do you mean "now"? People have already started to complain about other mesmer stuff like they have done for last year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteor.3720 Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 > @"Chiuvitas.8946" said: > > Chaotic interruption wasn't a viable build ... because it revolves around enemy stability and dodges (which can be unpredictable and both of those are beyond your control as a player so it's not viable cus its up to your enemy) and ... you don't have any damage cus mirage has been over-nerfed and it does no damage without illusions +dueling traitlines > > The problem is that the current balance squad has a massive grudge against mesmer which is easily obvious if you look at all the patch notes for the last year. > Mesmer has been over-nerfed to a point where it's the worst class in the game. > when is this ridiculous mesmer bullying going to end? Oh god this post is so painful to read. If you honestly think CI wasn't viable, that you can't counter play stab (despite boonrip) or wait for enemy to use dodges, or that there's no damage on mirage (despite clones stacking insane condis with IH), or that mesmer is the worst class ... then I have no idea what planet you're on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoomNexus.5324 Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 > @"Chiuvitas.8946" said: > this is regarding https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/83741/chaotic-interruption-temporarily-disabled-in-pvp > in the other patch you completely remove stuff without giving any compensation and this keeps going on over and over (...) And again, chaotic interruption build wasn't even viable and i'd know cus ive played both mesmer with and without it. It lacks damage and it doesn't put enough pressure, it's only "okay" while outnumbering and it's still worse than a thief or a revenant in that situation Mirage used to be extremely op so nerf after nerf without compensation was absolutely necessary. Why would you give a broken class compensation if you tune it down so it stays broken? Doesn't make sense to me. Admitted we have reached the point where mirage isn't completely busted a while ago but it's just the mechanics with all those clones that let mirage just spiral out of control and amplitude every little bit of unbalance to a point where it's ridiculous to play against. So as long as clones work the way they work atm (and have worked since ever), there will always be at least one ridiculously annoying build to play against and people will always complain - and rightly so in my opinion. Clones should be mere shatter fodder and for utility only, not for damage or CC imo. This would require buffs to mesmer itself of course but I think it would make balancing much easier and fairer. If you define "it lacks damage" as "I can't wombocombo anyone out of stealth with 20 stacks torment and confusion with a bit of burn so they die within like a second or two" then yes, I agree, CI mirage lacks damage. However I'd argue being able to lock someone in place for an eternity without the slightest chance of counterplay makes up for the bit of damage loss quite well. "it's still worse than a thief or a revenant in that situation" -> in which situation exactly? "Disabling the enemy until he's dead" is not quite in the toolkit of a thief or revenant. And well.. yea.. sPvP is after all still a game mode where some people might say that team work is important so maybe explain again why is it particularly bad for a mesmer to trade a bit of damage/solo pressure to get insane CC output so your mates can just snack the enemies away? And it's hilarious imo. Mirage was absolutley and objectively broken like a year or so ago and just because Anet fails to tune it down properly so they have to nerf it like every balance patch, people are under the impression mirage is overnerfed now and "it's the worst class in the game". Of course Holo direly needs nerfs too but that doesn't make mirage the worst class in the game lul. As a sidenote: The fact that anet can't fix something like ONE SINGLE TRAIT outside a major balance patch via hotfix is just evidence of incapacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiuvitas.8946 Posted August 3, 2019 Author Share Posted August 3, 2019 > @"zipiyzape.3781" said: > you are mad you can't just press random buttons and kill 2-3 people while being unkillable? > > now they just need to tone down the holos and maybe pvp will be enjoyable again but i don't even play chaotic interruption so it doesn't affect me in any way, i mentioned that but you didn't even bother reading you just came here to post random hate that doesn't contribute anything? I've played CI in the past and if you think it's "2-3 random buttons and kill people while being unkilable" then lol. You need to time your interrupts and then you just get 5 might stacks (10 with sigil) and an immobilize, it doesn't do anything else... it does zero damage and with spammable condi removal ,which everyone has , it's often useless > @"Meteor.3720" said: > > @"Chiuvitas.8946" said: > > > > Chaotic interruption wasn't a viable build ... because it revolves around enemy stability and dodges (which can be unpredictable and both of those are beyond your control as a player so it's not viable cus its up to your enemy) and ... you don't have any damage cus mirage has been over-nerfed and it does no damage without illusions +dueling traitlines > > > > The problem is that the current balance squad has a massive grudge against mesmer which is easily obvious if you look at all the patch notes for the last year. > > Mesmer has been over-nerfed to a point where it's the worst class in the game. > > when is this ridiculous mesmer bullying going to end? > > Oh god this post is so painful to read. > If you honestly think CI wasn't viable, that you can't counter play stab (despite boonrip) or wait for enemy to use dodges, or that there's no damage on mirage (despite clones stacking insane condis with IH), or that mesmer is the worst class ... then I have no idea what planet you're on. It wasn't viable. I've beaten CI mirages in plat3 in 1v3. It does no damage. You don't understand the game. What boonrip does mirage have? a 25 second cooldown skill that can be dodged and has cast time ..? Even if you get hit by CI like three times in a row , it does zero damage by itself and now that you're not running illusions, your F2 does -50% damage and you have lower condition damage and scepter is so abyssmally slow and bad that you can't channel a single skill without the atk speed trait so everyone dodges everything except the counter. You can't even effectively auto attack without the illusions trait cause it's too slow you don't play mirage and that's just it. If you think a clone casting 1 burn stack that does 300 damage with literal 3 second cast / travel time then i don't know what planet YOU are on, considering holo can do 10k with a single corona burst, 33 times more damage than a random burn stack which is irrelevant. Mirage's damage is pathetic compared to any power class and it can actually be prevented by condi removal, you can't prevent a 10k corona burst after it hits you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 There are a few long time mesmer mains around that admit to how broken,cheesey the ci build going around was but im guessing most defending it are players that jumped onto mirage as the new fotm cheese broken class along with holo lol gues they think perma stun/dazing people also while immobilizing them constantly while they and their teammates just destroy u is fun gameplay lmao. Ive read alot of mirage players talk about not using certain traits or builds due to feeling broken and I get why they would complain when something is nerfed in their build not complained about but I don't get all these mirages wondering why this happened to the ci trait. There's a reason why recently mirages have increased so much in pvp lol and they know why. I'm glad arenet trying to deal with it in someway or anyway rather than a yr later. Maybe mirages wouldn't be complained about constantly if most mesmer players didnt try to run the cheesiest builds they can with the least counterplay. Not that mesmer players are the only ones guilty of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoopop.5630 Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 I mean the spec should of been dealt with a over a month ago but it wasn't? My issue with Anet is that....the season ends in 2 days so what was the point in doing it toward the last 2-3 days of the season after 2+ months of Condi Mirage Abuse? They have a history of ALWAYS doing something on the last week of rank NO idea why but it's almost a sure thing. Either a Balance/ Remove titles and then wait the week before rank ends to tell everyone they are going to give titles, and now disable an entire trait-line on the last few days? Gotta do better then this if ya'll want to keep the player base happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clownmug.8357 Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 I wonder, why's this the first ever balanced related thing they've decided needs immediate action rather than waiting 3-4 months per usual? Did someone figure out how to solo a raid boss with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phokus.8934 Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 > @"Clownmug.8357" said: > I wonder, why's this the first ever balanced related thing they've decided needs immediate action rather than waiting 3-4 months per usual? Did someone figure out how to solo a raid boss with it? It's not. They disabled a Scourge trait when it was broken with one of the new runes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khalisto.5780 Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 imagine the size of the textwall if CI was viable in his opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodokuna Akuma.9570 Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 > @"Clownmug.8357" said: > I wonder, why's this the first ever balanced related thing they've decided needs immediate action rather than waiting 3-4 months per usual? Did someone figure out how to solo a raid boss with it? Aside from the fact its pvp only. In my eyes its an attempt from anet to show they care about the pvp scene. After all They stated its an issue they dont want to leave hanging and provided a stop gap solution to try and mitigate the cancer that is ci mirage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khalisto.5780 Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 we just need a little more bias, removing infinite horizon effect on clones, then yeah, the bias has to stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar.4257 Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 > @"Clownmug.8357" said: > I wonder, why's this the first ever balanced related thing they've decided needs immediate action rather than waiting 3-4 months per usual? Did someone figure out how to solo a raid boss with it? It isn't. Scrapper, Berserker, Scourge, all recent examples. And plenty more if you look further back (newsflash: this game is 7 years old). But I guess if those don't affect you personally then they don't count? But sure, yeah yeah yeah, mesmer only class to ever get nerfed, no other class ever nerfed, so bullied, such persecution. Call the UN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotoriousNaru.1705 Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 Lmfao I lost braincells reading this post. People actually exist who think disabling this trait was a bad move or not a good idea by anet? XD Also, just an fyi mesmer has been the most favored class by anet in pvp for years for us top players its not even a debate. Since the dawn of time no other class has seen the highs that mesmer has seen from mantra one shot pre hot, to bunker chrono, to condi chrono, to bunker chrono again with phantasm rework(which also had to get hotfixed) to broken condi mirage. Even with this trait gone mirage is still good and has viable builds. No other class in HISTORY has been this oppressive from pre hot all the way to this moment and if you think mesmer isn't favored you either lack information or are delusional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigiQWill.6378 Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 "CI was unviable because I main that and can't win." Srriously that is the most ridiculous thread I have read in a while. Learn to play, jee. You are a disappointment to all Mirage mains that actually learnt it. Mesmer is stupidly good, if you know how to play it. If you cannot play Mesmer, you don't even deserve the right to cry for nerfs or buffs or compensations. I am a high elo Mirage main and as much as I can tell, CI was a braindead trait - I was able to casually chat with friends, lay back, and press buttons and kill all the ennemies coming to me. It was the easiest build to play and rewarded too much. If you had read what the devs actually posted, they said they were reworking the traitline(s). Litterally: learn to read and learn to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar.4257 Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 > @"Chiuvitas.8946" said: > Thanks for showing the average mentality around here, take only the half of the facts that benefit u and not all of them The irony of this statement is mind-blowing. CI mirage was clearly over-performing, pretty much the entire non-mesmer-main population (and quite a few of the mesmer-mains too) agreed on that, but you've somehow convinced yourself that it wasn't even viable. Despite it being present in basically every match for the past season. This is what class-bias looks like. Is this an Incissor alt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xstein.2187 Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 Chaotic Interruption: immobilizing since June 25, 2013 6 years later: CI removed middle of season because quick hot fix not possible. My question is, if a hot fix wasn't possible in 6 years, how long is a normal fix going to take? Chaotic Interruption is going to end up like Elusive Mind anyways and never be used again after the next balance patch. So, what is the difference between that and just removing it now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiuvitas.8946 Posted August 3, 2019 Author Share Posted August 3, 2019 > @"DigiQWill.6378" said: > "CI was unviable because I main that and can't win." Srriously that is the most ridiculous thread I have read in a while. Learn to play, jee. You are a disappointment to all Mirage mains that actually learnt it. > > Mesmer is stupidly good, if you know how to play it. If you cannot play Mesmer, you don't even deserve the right to cry for nerfs or buffs or compensations. I am a high elo Mirage main and as much as I can tell, CI was a braindead trait - I was able to casually chat with friends, lay back, and press buttons and kill all the ennemies coming to me. It was the easiest build to play and rewarded too much. If you had read what the devs actually posted, they said they were reworking the traitline(s). > > Litterally: learn to read and learn to play. I don't main that but nice slander. If CI is so good why isn't there a single mirage in top20/legendary elo in europe? And no. You are not a high elo mirage > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > @"Chiuvitas.8946" said: > > Thanks for showing the average mentality around here, take only the half of the facts that benefit u and not all of them > > The irony of this statement is mind-blowing. > > CI mirage was clearly over-performing, pretty much the entire non-mesmer-main population (and quite a few of the mesmer-mains too) agreed on that, but you've somehow convinced yourself that it wasn't even viable. Despite it being present in basically every match for the past season. > > This is what class-bias looks like. Is this an Incissor alt? what mesmer mains agreed on that ? i saw 2 mesmer mains playing CI yday i killed them w/o taking damage and they went back to their old builds after i mocked them for playing this meme how is CI mirage over-performing? there were legit 4 people playing it on high elo in europe and none of them are even in top 20 . I don't call that over-performing when theres 5 revenants in top 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaralyna.3104 Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 I picked mesmer back in the days as I liked the theme and playstyle. Upgraded from core mesmer to chrono (stayed power dps with doing my own things and not following a build guide). Played some other classes aside as well. And I can simply not deny mesmer/chrono/mirage was incredibly OP (and I am not in high rankings/don't do AT's/don't do raids and my dps output is low). Chronomancer is brought down to acceptable level now after last balance patch (gave feedback on it in other threads). I am even fine with the need to have a clone to use any shatters. However, core mesmer should be adapted to that same system of needing clones to use them and have the same lower damage output as chrono atm. And the same thing applies to mirages. Mirages are still incredibly op. If I see a mesmer in pvp its always a mirage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayga.3192 Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 > @"NotoriousNaru.1705" said: > Lmfao I lost braincells reading this post. People actually exist who think disabling this trait was a bad move or not a good idea by anet? XD Isn't it easily fixed by removing immob? Disabling is overkill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xstein.2187 Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 > @"Aaralyna.3104" said: > If I see a mesmer in pvp its always a mirage. lol who would think core mesmer or chrono is competitive in PvP? Chaotic Interruption itself is a core mesmer trait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincolnbeard.1735 Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 Just wondering, wasn't Jessica Parker fired for arguing with a player? What is going to happen with someone who called part of the playerbase "degenerate"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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