Cyninja.2954 Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > > > > The only remaining thing to do is cut your losses, learn your lessons, and move on > > > > > > > > If you feel this way, why are you still lurking around on these forums? You should have moved on years ago given your dissatisfaction with the game. > > > > > > > > Always hard to follow people's advice who do not even follow it themselves. > > > > > > 'Silence is the betrayer...only words communicates the truth' > > > > Yes, and the words in this case could be: > > A.) you are either not actively playing, just lurking around without any actual ingame experience. As such your opinion and statements are without value > > or > > B.) you are still actively playing and just being overly negative on the forums, which would make you a hypocrite > > > > Again, if you are giving advice, follow it yourself if you want others to take you seriously. > > > > **I've certainly taken breaks from the game which is often represented in my post hirstory. How? By me not being active on the forums of a game I do not play because I can actually move on.** > > Cyninja, well said Glad you approve. So can we assume you are actually active in the game and now reapeared on the forums the moment your last ban ran out? As such, you yourself are not actually inactive in the game thus passing out advice which does not even apply to yourself? In which case I would need to ask: why give bad advice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aelska.4609 Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > It's been awhile since anyone has compiled the current status of things into one spot for good discussion. > > **Class Balance:** > [...] > Guardians > > * Guardian - Core Guardian is in a great place balance wise within the meta, and even mechanically. > * Dragonhunter - Garbage in competitive modes. The thing is, it shouldn't be. The problem is that PoF brought way way way too much stability. The Dragonhunter can't reliably run its gimmicks with so much stability in the game. > * Firebrand - Now here is a great case example of a class that is completely balanced when only 1 is present on a team, but becomes exponentially broken when players begin stacking Firebrands on the same team. Aside from recent commentary about Firebrand, the class itself is relatively balanced. The problem with FIrebrand happens when there are 2 or 3 or 4 of them on the same team. When stacked like this, they present a problem that we've rarely seen in GW2 competitive modes, where a single class/build has so much synergy with itself, that all it needs on a team is many copies of itself. The only other time this was as big of a problem as Firebrand is now, was back in core with Celestial DD Elementalist. The problem that enabled Ele to do this, was that Ele was simply a superior spec to anything else in the game at the time. The problem that enables Firebrand to do this, is that the support it offers is just too strong when stacked with copies of itself. There are no downfalls, no weaknesses, and none of the abilities overlap or negate durations. It just all stacks, works, and it doesn't even require any level of communication for it to work, in the same way that a team of DPS would need to coordinate bursting and targeting, or in the same way that a Druid would need to be very cautious & precise with when it was safe to pop CA to heal a Reaper when it went out of shroud instead of saving CA for himself. Another part of the problem with stacked Firebrand is that the animations are so quaint and all look the same, yet confetti like and 2nd in pixel spam only when set next to a Mirage. So the stacked Firebrands can all be running different builds like power or condi or full support, yet everything they are all individually doing looks the same so it's difficult to tell which one is running which build, and they hide each other's animations behind fused pixel explosions. By the time your team can figure out who is running what build, if they can at all, it's probably too late in the game to make use of that recognition, concerning who should be targeted first. And even then, does it really matter? I mean when you're looking at 3x or 4x Firebrands balled up on a node, are any of them really going to die any easier than the other? The last part of this problem, is that the Firebrands actually deal a lot of damage considering the type of support they're pumping out. _Again, the design is fine when the Firebrand is the only Firebrand in the team._ But this becomes messy and broken when Firebrands ball up and their attack animations all look the same, with little to no tells for when some CC combo is incoming. When I fight a Holosmith as example, I can see when it goes into Holosaiyan Forge, or when it is about to use a Special Beam Cannon on me. I can even see when it stealths, which is a tell into a combo. But Firebrands, due to pixel obstruction on top of animations that are little to no tell at all to begin with, when they all stack up together, they become dangerous and all of those damage combos land much more easily than they should be. - **What I am referencing is not a problem with Firebrand being overpowered. It is a problem with class stacking. My personal point of view is that only 2 of the same class or specialization should ever be allowed on the same team in unranked, ranked, or ATs. Even if a person logs out to swap before a match starts, if there are already 2 of some given class/specialization in his team comp that he tries to log in as, it should give him a message that says: "Nope sorry, already too many" and he should be redirected to his character select screen to log in as something else.** > [...] I appreciate your work, you have a good and honest opinion on the game. To bounce back on the **guardian** topic, as it is the class I know the most: * Core: definitely ok with your conclusions. Very decent and interesting mechanic, when the proper traits are picked. * DH: I really feel like this specialization has been created by unexperienced developers. It is basically a "Core guard with the same virtues, but better" (F1 deals more damage, F2 heals more and brings more mobility, F3 blocks more). Traps gameplay is just trash, longbow skills make absolutely no sense and is not "fluid" (except for that trap > shield 5 > F1 > bow 3 combo). Stabilitycreep made it less interesting, (necessary) buffs in other traitlines (radiance/zeal) are more interesting than DH traitline. In my opinion, there is no way to balance DH because of it similarities with Core and its stupid and simple gameplay. And, to be honest, I won't miss "competitive DH" in pvp (remember the daze traps at the beginning of HoT ?). * FB: Virtues that work like kits is definitely different and great mechanic, which brought a new versatile way to play guard. But a huge shave is needed to the support abilities of this elite. Less healing to allies, less boons to allies, less cleanse to allies. Guards already have a support build (shout guard). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > It's been awhile since anyone has compiled the current status of things into one spot for good discussion. > > **Class Balance:** > > Warriors > > * Warrior - The buffs to Tactics has made Core Warrior arguably as good as or better than a Spellbreaker in certain situations. Most people feel however, that this https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warrior%27s_Cunning is too much, for several reasons. > * Berserker - Useless in competitive modes. The specialization completely lacks adequate defensive value and the DPS gained is too clunky to use competitively. > * Spellbreaker - Still one of the best side node duelists and not necessarily OP at all. Warrior/Spellbreaker is in a good place concerning how strong it is, how it feels to play it, and how it feels to play against it. Most people would say that it is the best example of a class that was designed well regarding these 3x things. I often feel like some of the MOST FUN 1v1s that I encounter, are against Spellbreakers. > > Guardians > > * Guardian - Core Guardian is in a great place balance wise within the meta, and even mechanically. > * Dragonhunter - Garbage in competitive modes. The thing is, it shouldn't be. The problem is that PoF brought way way way too much stability. The Dragonhunter can't reliably run its gimmicks with so much stability in the game. > * Firebrand - Now here is a great case example of a class that is completely balanced when only 1 is present on a team, but becomes exponentially broken when players begin stacking Firebrands on the same team. Aside from recent commentary about Firebrand, the class itself is relatively balanced. The problem with FIrebrand happens when there are 2 or 3 or 4 of them on the same team. When stacked like this, they present a problem that we've rarely seen in GW2 competitive modes, where a single class/build has so much synergy with itself, that all it needs on a team is many copies of itself. The only other time this was as big of a problem as Firebrand is now, was back in core with Celestial DD Elementalist. The problem that enabled Ele to do this, was that Ele was simply a superior spec to anything else in the game at the time. The problem that enables Firebrand to do this, is that the support it offers is just too strong when stacked with copies of itself. There are no downfalls, no weaknesses, and none of the abilities overlap or negate durations. It just all stacks, works, and it doesn't even require any level of communication for it to work, in the same way that a team of DPS would need to coordinate bursting and targeting, or in the same way that a Druid would need to be very cautious & precise with when it was safe to pop CA to heal a Reaper when it went out of shroud instead of saving CA for himself. Another part of the problem with stacked Firebrand is that the animations are so quaint and all look the same, yet confetti like and 2nd in pixel spam only when set next to a Mirage. So the stacked Firebrands can all be running different builds like power or condi or full support, yet everything they are all individually doing looks the same so it's difficult to tell which one is running which build, and they hide each other's animations behind fused pixel explosions. By the time your team can figure out who is running what build, if they can at all, it's probably too late in the game to make use of that recognition, concerning who should be targeted first. And even then, does it really matter? I mean when you're looking at 3x or 4x Firebrands balled up on a node, are any of them really going to die any easier than the other? The last part of this problem, is that the Firebrands actually deal a lot of damage considering the type of support they're pumping out. _Again, the design is fine when the Firebrand is the only Firebrand in the team._ But this becomes messy and broken when Firebrands ball up and their attack animations all look the same, with little to no tells for when some CC combo is incoming. When I fight a Holosmith as example, I can see when it goes into Holosaiyan Forge, or when it is about to use a Special Beam Cannon on me. I can even see when it stealths, which is a tell into a combo. But Firebrands, due to pixel obstruction on top of animations that are little to no tell at all to begin with, when they all stack up together, they become dangerous and all of those damage combos land much more easily than they should be. - **What I am referencing is not a problem with Firebrand being overpowered. It is a problem with class stacking. My personal point of view is that only 2 of the same class or specialization should ever be allowed on the same team in unranked, ranked, or ATs. Even if a person logs out to swap before a match starts, if there are already 2 of some given class/specialization in his team comp that he tries to log in as, it should give him a message that says: "Nope sorry, already too many" and he should be redirected to his character select screen to log in as something else.** > > Revenants > > * Revenant - Condi Rev works. It really does. Well, Shao makes it work. He makes it look to be as viable as Power Shiro anyway. > * Herald - Good old Power Shiro, I think most people would say it's balanced now. It's in a good place. > * Renegade - What's a Renegade? Wait... I remember... I did see one of these once. It got killed by Svanir. > > Engineers > > * Engineer - Core Engi is in a bad place compared to other core classes. Core Engi needs buffs, Holosaiyan needs nerfs. > * Scrapper - Eeeeeeeh I dunno. Cuilan makes it work, but I don't see any other effective Scrapper play outside of him. > * Holosmith - We've heard plenty of explanations from plenty of players giving their subjective experiences as to "Why Holosmith is OP". Let me simply recap all of this in a nutshell. 1) Too much damage. 2) Too much CC. 3) Too much chase potential. 4) Too much sustain. 5) Too much of everything else. I don't feel the need to elaborate any further on this. > > Thieves > > * Thief - Most players would say it's in a good place. People who say "Core Condi SD is OP" are generally under the bell curve players who are playing something that happens to get countered easily from the burst, who allow themselves to be positioned in bad places to get countered by that burst. Core Thief is fine. It's in a good place. > * Daredevil - Staff/Staff is annoying but I don't know if it's OP really. There is a lot of debate on this right now so I won't try to narrow that into one defining statement. One thing is certain though, exploiting animations needs to be fixed if at all possible. Condi Daredevil is also up in a lot of debate as to whether it is overpowered or not. I've actually played a lot of Condi DrD within this past season, and I can say that it's very strong in some situations. Strong to the point that I'll often think "Is this OP?" but then as soon as I'm feeling a bit OP, I'll get a match with Firebrands and various Ele builds, things with a ton of condi defense, and then Condi DrD becomes useless. So the whole thing with Condi DrD right now, is that it hard counters certain things so well, that it feels broken and OP while in that situation, but then it is actually useless against certain other things. This is how we get arguments in the forum where some claim how OP it is, whilst others believe it is somewhat weak. Any time we get a situation like this, where a class/build is really good at hard countering some things, but gets hard countered really easily by other things, it seems that Arenanet only hears the side of the players who are saying "How OP it is" and then the class/build gets nerfed into the dirt. A great example of this has been the changes to Deadeye and Soulbeast within the past year or two. Neither of those two classes were ever tournament tier worthy, and if certain classes were present vs. the DE or Soulbeast, it would shut those builds down completely. But regardless of those glaring weaknesses, because the DE & Soulbeast could hard counter certain things, there was much complaint on the forums from those players who were getting hard countered, so these specializations received great nerfing. The same thing is happening to Daredevil right now. Before players complain too much about Daredevil, they should try to look at the balance from an intra-class wide dynamic, rather than just the balance of The Condi DrD vs. the class they main. > * Deadeye - Most players would say that DE is in a good place, as obnoxious as it may be. This specialization is rarely used in high tier play and it certainly isn't OP. However, players in GW2 seem to complain about anything that can hit them from 1500 range, regardless of the damage output. Example 1: Imagine if a Necromancer had bailed and peeled away from a mid fight, and reached the far node to decap it, and he was standing there with 25% health. If a Spellbreaker had chased him to the far node and downed him with a single Greatsword #3, the Necromancer may become frustrated, but we don't see any "Spellbreaker is OP threads" happening. However, Example 2: If a Deadeye had appeared on a ledge to shoot the Necromancer with 25% health, after a patch that nerfed Death's Judgement to literally half the damage that it is now, if the Necromancer went down in one shot from 1500 range, even from being at 25% health, there is a special annoyance if not rage that players feel when they are downed by something at 1500+ range, regardless of if the build that did it is actually OP or not. This is where we get forum threads about "How OP DE is." It is my strong diagnosis & opinion that, the players who write these kinds of threads are not accurately distinguishing the difference between something actually being OP, and something that is just particularly annoying when it happens. I also believe that players in GW2, after playing the low ranged damage bunkery Core & HoT metas for so many years, now expect GW2 to still feel that same way. Players now, expect GW2 competitive modes to NOT have dangerous ranged damage beyond about 600 to 800 range. If anything has any significant ranged damage out past about 800+, they don't like the feel of it, regardless of if it is actually OP or not. Arenanet should be savvy to this idea, with future balancing to ranged attackers and where they want to take their design. Keep ranged attackers balanced? Or nerf them because it's annoying and unfavorable design? It's up to Arenanet. > > Rangers > > * Ranger - Core Ranger is in a good spot for a core class. It's just as viable as Core Guardian. > * Druid - This specialization needs serious buffing for competitive purposes concerning PvP and WvW. I'll try to keep this to a dull roar: 1) The evade frame needs to be returned to Staff #3 Ancestral Grace. Removing it hurt Druid's competitive play in detrimental ways. 2) Glyphs suck competitively, they're completely useless. Everything else in the game now has MULTIPLE effects on utilities. If there are no plans to revert power creep, Glyphs need upgrading. 3) Although the Celestial Avatar kit is a lot of cool healing in PvE, it is just weak now in competitive play. Firebrand for example, HEAVILY outweighs the Druid's Celestial Avatar kit in terms of support and applicable healing. And then things like Holosmith or Core Tactic Warrior as just two examples, have comparable self sustain vs. the CA Kit, but they can run DPS amulets while having that sustain, whereas the Druid has to run dedicated heal amulets for CA Kit to be viable at all. So many other classes/builds now regularly have the self sustain of a Druid, but output about 4x as much damage or more. Arenanet, you've got to do something here. There are ways to buff Druid's competitive role & playstyle, without enhancing it's already prominent PvE role & playstyle. Without going too deep into class overhaul suggestions, which should be saved for a different thread, I'll only toss a handful of quick buff suggestions for the CA Kit: 1) Cosmic Ray should apply Regeneration. 2) Seed Of Life should clear 3 condis and apply Resistance. 3) Lunar Impact should steal 2 boons from each opponent that is hit. 4) Rejuvenating Tides needs to be a 1/2 second cast time so the Druid can do other things while the effect is happening. Lunar Impact should pulse Protection to 5 allies. The Water Field should occur after the 1/2 second cast time is complete so this way the Druid can actually utilize it. 5) Natural Convergence should be brought to a 1s cast time and apply the 2 stacks of Stability to 5 targets instead of just the Druid. In addition to the final pulse Immobilization, it should also deal a 5 target AoE Stun. <- Change like this would make Druid CA Kit comparable to FB kits competitively, and wouldn't increase it's job role of burst heal factor very much in PvE. It wouldn't increase it's damage buffing for allies in PvE at all. > * Soulbeast - Soulbeast is in a good place competitively concerning overall balance. The one thing that I would like to point out with Soulbeast though, is that I believe it is the MOST flexible specialization right now. There are many many ways to run many many viable builds on Soulbeast. This is actually great and a lot of fun. I'd like to see more classes end up in this position. That's exactly the kind of dynamic that we need to see spread to other classes. DPS Soulbeast is still complained about from time to time, but it's for all of those reasons that I already mentioned in the asterisk about Deadeye. Most people would agree with that statement, though I'm sure there are some who would like to debate that. > > Necromancers > > * Necromancer - Core Necro is actually in a good spot. Pretty fun to play, does pretty well actually. > * Reaper - Reaper has fallen away a bit during this past season, but it was mostly due to the reappearance of Condi Thieves and the sheer amount of Weakness spam they have. When Reapers went into Shroud, they couldn't self clear Weakness or any condis at all for that matter. This Condi Thief play showing up alongside of Scourges & Condi Mirages & Sage Firebrand & Condi Weaver play, was just too much condi for Reaper shroud. The buffs to Death Magic and all the condi defense therein may allow Reaper to hold its position. But regardless, Reaper is in a debatably bad place right now. > * Scourge - Just not feeling their presence much after the recent nerfs. I'm not seeing them in final rounds of ATs lately either. Seems to be falling away. > > Elementalists > > * Elementalist - Eh annoying at best. It's in a DECENT place for a core, but nothing as viable as Core Guard or Core Warrior as example. > * Tempest - Eeeehh…. I don't notice Tempest players. There are some annoying DPS Fresh Air builds but it only ever works once, then you know they're there, and then they're dead the rest of the match. Sometimes they feel sustainy if running some kind of Auramancer, until they get pressured 2v1 and they doesn't hold up well against 2x good DPSers. It doesn't have enough direct disengage to survive this meta's DPS values in the way that a Thief or something like a Ranger with Rune of Speed can. Not so viable in my opinion. > * Weaver - I don't really see much forum complaint about Weaver, but sometimes I feel like it's a bit OP lately. I don't know, am I wrong? What do other people think about this? I just don't seem to be seeing much discussion about this at all. So I can't really define a majority opinion that others seem to talk about. > > Mesmers > > * Mesmer - Core Mesmer is surprisingly viable when the right players are playing it. Though I wouldn't say it is as viable in the world of core as say a Guardian or Warrior or Ranger. > * Chronomancer - Mesmer players that I know tell me that "Chrono is dead" and that there is no reason to not play Mirage. > * Mirage - It's actually good and balanced for once, It really is. At least it is in CONQUEST, where you can make it leave a node if it wants to survive. However in 1v1 or 2v2 tourneys that I've been running lately, where it's about killing and not holding a node, Condi Mirage wins because it is the one class that doesn't have to die if it doesn't want to. <- That effect is even greater in WvW with the types of gear/food/utility options present in PvE/WvW. The only exception that has real kill opportunity on a good Condi Mirage who isn't lagging or who hasn't made a great fumble, is an SD Condi Thief. They can actually counter a Condi Mirage if played correctly. I've seen Condi Mirage banned in 1v1 recently due to this effect. > > **Map & Objective Balance:** > > 1. Legacy is fine. > 2. Forest is fine. > 3. Temple is fine. > 4. Khylo treb objective needs some kind of damage buff. People avoided treb play for years now, but at this point during the power creep, that treb deals no damage compared to normal character attacks. There is absolutely no advantageous reason under any circumstance, to ever go to that treb anymore. I'd say it needs a +50% or maybe +100% buff to the damage output. Then we'd see treb play again and serious contestation over the objective. As of now, it's a GOOD thing if an enemy wants to sit on a treb. People just let them do it. The objective here in Khylo is broken. > 5. Spirit Watch orb objective needs attention. The mobility and DPS of everything in the game now is just too great for it to be realistic to run that orb. It's like a suicidal death sentence to pick up that orb and attempt to run it, unless your team is already farming the other team. In other words, this objective only exists to help an already winning team snowball the other team. This objective provides no comeback mechanic whatsoever. If a losing team tries to run this orb, they lose even harder. Remove the speed penalty for running that orb or give it a 66% buff like Rune of Speed or something. Enhance the mobility skills on it while wielded. Something needs to be fixed here so that the mechanic can be used by losing teams. > 6. Skyhammer is in my opinion fine, though I know there are some diehard Skyhammer haters out there who would debate that opinion. > 7. Eternal Coliseum is great. The objectives here ended up being great comeback mechanics, but risky for already winning teams to send players off node to cap. > 8. Revenge Of The Capricorn is fine. > 9. Djinn's Dominion, most of us have grown used to the map at this point. But the objective here is broken and always has been. The skills granted from the objective are just too weak. Good players ignore the objective completely and hope that the other team has players who waste time to cap it. That's how useless these objectives are. Turn the damage of these things way up. Turn the defensive value way up. Do something. Make this objective worth contesting and it would actually be an interesting map. > > **Other things to note:** > > 1. 2v2 Arenas? Where are they? Can we get some mini offseason 2v2 beta or something? Can we get a weekend out of the month where ATs run 2v2s? Anything? Mike is the only one hosting this stuff and he's getting a lot of activity while doing it, for an elongated amount of time nonetheless. If that's not proof that people want this stuff, I don't know what is. > 2. Swiss? Yay or Nay? > 3. ATs are still bugging from time to time. > 4. Solo/Duo only Ranked Mode has become a complete cesspool of final form evolution cheating. If Arenanet was planning on trying to clean any of this up, they're too late! The only way to solve this problem now, is to return Ranked Mode to 5 man team queues so that competitors can block themselves from match manipulations effecting their matches. > 5. Maybe consider doing something completely different with ranked seasons entirely, like 2v2 or something. Anything to get rid of this win trade scene. Give us a competitive game mode again that works. > 6. When I am waiting in a queue, I want to be able to swap maps and do things while I am waiting in the queue. I think most people would agree on this. > 7. There should only be allowed 2 of the same class/specialization on any given team in unranked, ranked, and ATs. Class swapping is fine, but if a person goes to swap to a class/specialization that there is already 2 of in his team, it should give him a message that says: "Sorry there are already 2 of these in your team. Select something else" and then he can log in as something else. This really needs to happen for several reasons. Warrior balanced and ele weaver seemingly OP?.......What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.5684 Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said: > > In what world is Core Guardian; "in a great place balance wise within the meta, and even mechanically."? > > > > It is a scuffed version of it's old self. Which at it's height was never even meta to begin with. It gets hillariously outshone by both Herald and Holo in the same roll. > > > > It's too slow to +1, it's too squishy to duel anything that's not a mirage or condi daredevil and it's damage is too low to 100-0 anything that's not on berserker amulet. > > Get over yourself. > > Dang my man. I think you're misunderstanding what I mean when I say something is in a great place balance wise. You've already used Holo & Herald to compare to Core Guardian, which are two notoriously out of whack specs that have been over powered for quite some time. When I say something is "In a great place balance wise" I mean that it is on a level that it should be, that it is an outstanding example of what the game balance should look like. I would never say that something like a Holosmith is "in a great place balance wise" because I feel it is in a bad place balance wise, an outstanding example of something that is overpowered that needs some real nerfing. > > I think that you were thinking, when I said "It was in a great place balance wise" that I meant "it's really strong" but that is not what I meant at all. > > ~ Hope that clears up some confusion. > > But that is kinda of the problem. We cannot measure performance based on were we hope things will be. Picking a C rated build and say it is balanced, and branding at least a dozen better performing builds as out performing, is not conducive of constructive balance discussion. It is also much easier to buff one under performing build than nerfing everything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmoid.7082 Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 > @"otto.5684" said: > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said: > > > In what world is Core Guardian; "in a great place balance wise within the meta, and even mechanically."? > > > > > > It is a scuffed version of it's old self. Which at it's height was never even meta to begin with. It gets hillariously outshone by both Herald and Holo in the same roll. > > > > > > It's too slow to +1, it's too squishy to duel anything that's not a mirage or condi daredevil and it's damage is too low to 100-0 anything that's not on berserker amulet. > > > Get over yourself. > > > > Dang my man. I think you're misunderstanding what I mean when I say something is in a great place balance wise. You've already used Holo & Herald to compare to Core Guardian, which are two notoriously out of whack specs that have been over powered for quite some time. When I say something is "In a great place balance wise" I mean that it is on a level that it should be, that it is an outstanding example of what the game balance should look like. I would never say that something like a Holosmith is "in a great place balance wise" because I feel it is in a bad place balance wise, an outstanding example of something that is overpowered that needs some real nerfing. > > > > I think that you were thinking, when I said "It was in a great place balance wise" that I meant "it's really strong" but that is not what I meant at all. > > > > ~ Hope that clears up some confusion. > > > > > > But that is kinda of the problem. We cannot measure performance based on were we hope things will be. Picking a C rated build and say it is balanced, and branding at least a dozen better performing builds as out performing, is not conducive of constructive balance discussion. > > **It is also much easier to buff one under performing build than nerfing everything else.** Bold: This is how we ended up where we are now isn't it? Constantly buffing the bottom specs leads to the overall power level of things being brought up over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted October 19, 2019 Author Share Posted October 19, 2019 > @"otto.5684" said: > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said: > > > In what world is Core Guardian; "in a great place balance wise within the meta, and even mechanically."? > > > > > > It is a scuffed version of it's old self. Which at it's height was never even meta to begin with. It gets hillariously outshone by both Herald and Holo in the same roll. > > > > > > It's too slow to +1, it's too squishy to duel anything that's not a mirage or condi daredevil and it's damage is too low to 100-0 anything that's not on berserker amulet. > > > Get over yourself. > > > > Dang my man. I think you're misunderstanding what I mean when I say something is in a great place balance wise. You've already used Holo & Herald to compare to Core Guardian, which are two notoriously out of whack specs that have been over powered for quite some time. When I say something is "In a great place balance wise" I mean that it is on a level that it should be, that it is an outstanding example of what the game balance should look like. I would never say that something like a Holosmith is "in a great place balance wise" because I feel it is in a bad place balance wise, an outstanding example of something that is overpowered that needs some real nerfing. > > > > I think that you were thinking, when I said "It was in a great place balance wise" that I meant "it's really strong" but that is not what I meant at all. > > > > ~ Hope that clears up some confusion. > > > > > > But that is kinda of the problem. We cannot measure performance based on were we hope things will be. Picking a C rated build and say it is balanced, and branding at least a dozen better performing builds as out performing, is not conducive of constructive balance discussion. > > It is also much easier to buff one under performing build than nerfing everything else. I certainly wouldn't call Core Guard C rated. it's easily B+ tier at the least, which is why we see so many of them in play. We see more Core Guards than any other Core Build. At least this is definitely true in AT play, where teams are actually trying with their team comps. Core Guard is B+ at the least in general play, but serves as an A'ish measure when being used to counter very specific things. Core Guard certainly should not be downplayed. And aside from that, when I say a Core Build is in a good place, I don't mean that it is balanced in strength next to elite specializations. It seems you took my statement as: "This build is balanced in strength with all of Hot & PoF" that is not what I meant. Inherently, we can see that Arenanet tries to keep Core Specs a bit under par vs. elite specializations. When I say "A Core Build is in a good place" I am saying that in relevance to Arenanet's standards concerning the strength of Core Builds that we've seen so far. And Core Guardian, is pretty much the shining example of a well designed Core Build, as it is THE Core Build that has seen the most use out of any other Core Build, even when other Core builds were knocked out of viability. Core Guardian has always been useful and has always had a niche place for swapping for counter play. People do not use other Core Builds during more competitive AT play, but Core Guardian actually sees a lot of use in AT play. It may not be the ideal solo queue class, but it indeed sees a lot of use in AT play, because of its niche for being played as a counter class vs. certain things. All in all, you could say that Core Guardian is actually the best Core Build. It sees much more use in higher tiered play than any other Core Build. In no way is it balanced in strength vs. a Holosmith, but for a Core Build, it definitely has its place & use within this meta. <- This is what my comment was trying to sum up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.5684 Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > @"otto.5684" said: > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said: > > > > In what world is Core Guardian; "in a great place balance wise within the meta, and even mechanically."? > > > > > > > > It is a scuffed version of it's old self. Which at it's height was never even meta to begin with. It gets hillariously outshone by both Herald and Holo in the same roll. > > > > > > > > It's too slow to +1, it's too squishy to duel anything that's not a mirage or condi daredevil and it's damage is too low to 100-0 anything that's not on berserker amulet. > > > > Get over yourself. > > > > > > Dang my man. I think you're misunderstanding what I mean when I say something is in a great place balance wise. You've already used Holo & Herald to compare to Core Guardian, which are two notoriously out of whack specs that have been over powered for quite some time. When I say something is "In a great place balance wise" I mean that it is on a level that it should be, that it is an outstanding example of what the game balance should look like. I would never say that something like a Holosmith is "in a great place balance wise" because I feel it is in a bad place balance wise, an outstanding example of something that is overpowered that needs some real nerfing. > > > > > > I think that you were thinking, when I said "It was in a great place balance wise" that I meant "it's really strong" but that is not what I meant at all. > > > > > > ~ Hope that clears up some confusion. > > > > > > > > > > But that is kinda of the problem. We cannot measure performance based on were we hope things will be. Picking a C rated build and say it is balanced, and branding at least a dozen better performing builds as out performing, is not conducive of constructive balance discussion. > > > > **It is also much easier to buff one under performing build than nerfing everything else.** > > Bold: This is how we ended up where we are now isn't it? > > Constantly buffing the bottom specs leads to the overall power level of things being brought up over time. That is true. But all we can do is use meta as baseline. If Anet is not going to do some major nerfs on meta builds, then we should buff weaker stuff to the baseline. I think we desperately need a major rebalance of boons availability and stacking, boon RIP, CC (AOE in particular), unblockable attacks, condi damage and HP pools. But Anet devs are not up to the task. @"Trevor Boyer.6524" I agree with that core guardian with strong ally support can do well, cuz does one thing well, power AOE damage. As long as you are getting heal+boons and someone else does CC, you will do well. But it is significantly lacking in so many areas. As for it being the best core build, I do not think this matters much. I would like that all core builds are equal in power and distinct in gameplay from elites. And core guardian had that in the past. But now, it is outclassed by several builds at what it does and solo it cannot come remotely close to FB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted October 19, 2019 Author Share Posted October 19, 2019 This would be my take on a tier list right now: Holosmith = S+ "This build has way too much. It is easily the best conquest build due its wide strengths amongst all parameters." Condi Thieves = S- or B- "These builds are OP vs. certain things but of relatively no impact against others." Staff/Staff DrD = S- or C- "An S in the right team comp, but a useless presence while situated incorrectly in a team." Spellbreaker = A+ "It's a great build overall, and hovers juuuust under the radar of being OP. It does have its counters however." Condi Mirage = A+ "This still usually ends up being the stronger 1v1 side node presence. But it's bad in team fights." Firebrand = A+ to C- "Depending on the team comp, Firebrands are either amazing or they get nothing done at all." Herald = A "No longer OP but it's still a solid player. It can struggle vs. condi heavy comps." Ranger/Soulbeast = A- "They work to viability. But they are not favorable in more competitive play over above mentioned builds." Weaver = A- "They work to viability for a solid A-. They're quite strong lately actually, but still lack a solid job role to capitalize on." Core Tact War = A- "The build is quite strong in a weird flex clunky way." Power Mirage = A- or B+ "This build is still strong with the right player behind it, but mediocre in the hands of most." Core Guard = A- or B- "Depending on how it is team comped and what it is being used for." Deadeye = A- or C "A good player makes it work well, but in the hands of most it's just a poor choice to use." Reaper = B+ "It feels like it works, but then you notice it's just not working as well nowadays." Necro = B+ "It's every bit as effective as a Reaper or Scourge now but in different ways. It may shine to be the better Necro spec in time." Scourge = B+ "It's kind of just not working like it used to work lately in current conquest meta after its nerfs." Core Mesmer/Chrono = B+ "They are still at least as effective as a Core Necromancer in the right hands." Scrapper = B+ or C+ "It's doable in the hands of the right player but not so strong in the hands of the wrong player." Core Condi Rev = B+ or C- "It's doable in the hands of the right player but relatively useless I the hands of the wrong player." Druid = B+ or D- "It's doable in the hands of the right player but absolutely garbage in the hands of the wrong player." Core Ele/Tempest = B "These are in no way as good as a Weaver is right now." Dragonhunter = B- "It's just kind of bad right now, considering it's history of once being useful." Berserker = B- "It just doesn't work out well, aside from positive theory crafting to try and find a use for all of that damage." Core Engineer = C+ "It's actually the worst Core Build right now." Renegade = D+ or worse "This specialization seriously lacks any mechanics to be able to be competitive in any way. It needs real work." But believe it or not, this is the best balance we've had in a long time. The large majority of the builds in play hover between A+ and B+ balancing. There are a small amount of outliers on the top & the bottom of the list. At the top, there is only one solid S+ and only a couple other S grade that are only S grade in certain situations. Then at the bottom, there are only four specs that lightly stray under B+ rating, and only one spec "Renegade" that is bad enough to be rated D+. In previous patchings, tiers lists were way more volatile than this. This is somewhat stabile considering the history of GW2 competitive balance, outside of the glaring Holosmith S+ and the Core Engi C+ & Renegade D+. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnfall.9573 Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 > @"Cyninja.2954" said:hhA53g1 > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > > > > > The only remaining thing to do is cut your losses, learn your lessons, and move on > > > > > > > > > > If you feel this way, why are you still lurking around on these forums? You should have moved on years ago given your dissatisfaction with the game. > > > > > > > > > > Always hard to follow people's advice who do not even follow it themselves. > > > > > > > > 'Silence is the betrayer...only words communicates the truth' > > > > > > Yes, and the words in this case could be: > > > A.) you are either not actively playing, just lurking around without any actual ingame experience. As such your opinion and statements are without value > > > or > > > B.) you are still actively playing and just being overly negative on the forums, which would make you a hypocrite > > > > > > Again, if you are giving advice, follow it yourself if you want others to take you seriously. > > > > > > **I've certainly taken breaks from the game which is often represented in my post hirstory. How? By me not being active on the forums of a game I do not play because I can actually move on.** > > > > Cyninja, well said > > Glad you approve. So can we assume you are actually active in the game and now reapeared on the forums the moment your last ban ran out? > > As such, you yourself are not actually inactive in the game thus passing out advice which does not even apply to yourself? > > In which case I would need to ask: why give bad advice?  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:hhA53g1 > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > > > > > > The only remaining thing to do is cut your losses, learn your lessons, and move on > > > > > > > > > > > > If you feel this way, why are you still lurking around on these forums? You should have moved on years ago given your dissatisfaction with the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > Always hard to follow people's advice who do not even follow it themselves. > > > > > > > > > > 'Silence is the betrayer...only words communicates the truth' > > > > > > > > Yes, and the words in this case could be: > > > > A.) you are either not actively playing, just lurking around without any actual ingame experience. As such your opinion and statements are without value > > > > or > > > > B.) you are still actively playing and just being overly negative on the forums, which would make you a hypocrite > > > > > > > > Again, if you are giving advice, follow it yourself if you want others to take you seriously. > > > > > > > > **I've certainly taken breaks from the game which is often represented in my post hirstory. How? By me not being active on the forums of a game I do not play because I can actually move on.** > > > > > > Cyninja, well said > > > > Glad you approve. So can we assume you are actually active in the game and now reapeared on the forums the moment your last ban ran out? > > > > As such, you yourself are not actually inactive in the game thus passing out advice which does not even apply to yourself? > > > > In which case I would need to ask: why give bad advice? > >  > Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something. - Plato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flandre.2870 Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 xxxxxxxxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted October 20, 2019 Author Share Posted October 20, 2019 > @"Flandre.2870" said: > delete meme thief builds - deadeye/condi/staff, sword2 range reduce > delete rampage,bullscharge,shake it off > delete ele glyph, vigor trait > delete mesmer mantras > **rev evade uptime is still too high** > nerf holo sustain/reset potential > delete bambi ranger pet I just want to BOLD the above, and say that I do agree with this. A lot of people think Rev is squishy, but that is just not true when GOOD players know how to abuse evade timing. It's a bit much. Unrelenting Assault needs a longer cool down or increased energy use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeikeNz.3526 Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 agree with almost everything but: **Herald = A "No longer OP but it's still a solid player. It can struggle vs. condi heavy comps."** what this prove, this is about builds that some players use because a herald can have perma resistance up and have total immunity to condi dmg **Reaper = B+ "It feels like it works, but then you notice it's just not working as well nowadays."** reaper can hit more than a deadeye and any class out there if build right, can kill a whole team if they are near it and not stopped, they are not op because they don't have inv frames **Core Mesmer/Chrono = B+ "They are still at least as effective as a Core Necromancer in the right hands." Druid = B+ or D- "It's doable in the hands of the right player but absolutely garbage in the hands of the wrong player."** no, chrono are dead same as druid, mirage/soulbeasts can do better in any build power to condi, also druid avatar is the most useless transformation of the game, the heal is bad, the dmg is bad and need to build energy for that, probably gonna get killed if you use it in pvp, only druids traits can be usefull in some situations. **Core Ele/Tempest = B "These are in no way as good as a Weaver is right now."** **Core Engineer = C+ "It's actually the worst Core Build right now."** Weaver = A- "They work to viability for a solid A-. They're quite strong lately actually, but still lack a solid job role to capitalize on." true about not being as good as a weaver, but core ele is as bad as a eng even worse, also weaver are good only in good hands a.k.a macros, since they are impossible to play and have to do more work than any other class, the whole ele/elite specs need a buff for real **Scrapper = B+ or C+ "It's doable in the hands of the right player but not so strong in the hands of the wrong player."** they are op in some sense, they tank too much, you need 2-3 players to kill one, even if they don't do any dmg all this can broke the game since they can camp a node forever, it's ok to be a "tank" but not unkillable in 1v1 **Firebrand = A+ to C- "Depending on the team comp, Firebrands are either amazing or they get nothing done at all."** it's most about builds, they are only good vs ranged because of their shields vs melee they die in 2 seconds, they are to B to C in pvp, also they are most versability class out there you can't do dmg if you on support mode so people think they are good/op but they are highly dependant on their team skills, alone they can't do nothing i would say most op right now condi thiefs/dd + warriors/spellbreakers + holos + power soulbeasts what they have in common? too much cc+inv frames+ one shot potential they need less inv frames while doing damage and they will be in the rank of a reaper, also stability boons need to be nerfd to only one stack, so people can cc them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verskore.4312 Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 Spellbreaker would be just fine with rampage removed or seriously nerfed but with rampage it's just stupid, shitton of mobility, damage, cc. Like you said with holo, too much of everything. Also about soulbeast being the most diverse, what builds exactly do you mean then? you have boonbeast and sic em and that's about it. Also, BUFF DRUID Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted October 20, 2019 Author Share Posted October 20, 2019 > @"verskore.4312" said: > Spellbreaker would be just fine with rampage removed or seriously nerfed but with rampage it's just stupid, kitten of mobility, damage, cc. Like you said with holo, too much of everything. > > Also about soulbeast being the most diverse, what builds exactly do you mean then? you have boonbeast and sic em and that's about it. > > Also, BUFF DRUID Boonbeastdom is dead. That build has long ago been nerfed. Other builds now do a Boonbeast's job much better than a Boonbeast, particularly Holosmith, Spellbreaker, and Weavers. Soulbeasts needed to take different routes. Berserker Soulbeast that runs Sic Em with Rune of Speed has a place, but you need to run Skirm/Beastmaster for it to maintain the ability to pack enough of a punch for it to be comparable to pre-Sic Em nerfs, which means it has no defenses outside of a strong offense. Then the Rune of Speed will allow the Soulbeast to stay relatively disengaged to do its job. The only things that can chase it are Herald which hard counters it, Other Rangers which is a balanced match up, and Thieves who need to be careful chasing it because it can 1 or 2HKO any Thief build. The build works. The only two problems with it is that it can't hold a node well and the CDs to get the burst back are a tad long, which means if a burst fails, it cannot stay in the fray of combat during a team fight in the way that other builds with shorter CDs can. If you run this build, you need to be really good at making sure the burst works when coming in hot, otherwise you waste a lot of time in the match. This build can carry hard or be useless, depending on how good the Soulbeast is at making sure the burst lands. Brawly Soulbeast builds that do not run Sic Em at all have become popular, as well as Core Ranger variants of this. This is where the true flexibility is within Ranger/Soulbeast. You can run tons of variations of Ranger/Soulbeast utilizing Marauder, Demolisher, Paladin, Seeker, with various Runes & Trait setups that actually work. Other classes don't even come close to this type of flexibility. Even when we're talking something like a Holosmith, even trying to swap to Berserker from Demolisher, is enough to offset the sweet spot and make the build too vulnerable. Do not confuse these as Boonbeasts because these newer builds are running LB/GS, which is not at all what the old Boonbeast ran. These new builds are more damage oriented while optimizing what defenses they can, for the sake of being able to brawl, rather than hit & run like the Berserker variants, or win 1v1s on side nodes like a Boonbeast through out sustaining. These newer Soulbeast or Core Ranger builds are team fighters for the most part, though they can be effective in 1v1 if the player is good. They do however lack disengage for surviving 1v2s in the way that old Boonbeast builds could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verskore.4312 Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > @"verskore.4312" said: > > Spellbreaker would be just fine with rampage removed or seriously nerfed but with rampage it's just stupid, kitten of mobility, damage, cc. Like you said with holo, too much of everything. > > > > Also about soulbeast being the most diverse, what builds exactly do you mean then? you have boonbeast and sic em and that's about it. > > > > Also, BUFF DRUID > > Boonbeastdom is dead. That build has long ago been nerfed. Other builds now do a Boonbeast's job much better than a Boonbeast, particularly Holosmith, Spellbreaker, and Weavers. Soulbeasts needed to take different routes. > > Berserker Soulbeast that runs Sic Em with Rune of Speed has a place, but you need to run Skirm/Beastmaster for it to maintain the ability to pack enough of a punch for it to be comparable to pre-Sic Em nerfs, which means it has no defenses outside of a strong offense. Then the Rune of Speed will allow the Soulbeast to stay relatively disengaged to do its job. The only things that can chase it are Herald which hard counters it, Other Rangers which is a balanced match up, and Thieves who need to be careful chasing it because it can 1 or 2HKO any Thief build. The build works. The only two problems with it is that it can't hold a node well and the CDs to get the burst back are a tad long, which means if a burst fails, it cannot stay in the fray of combat during a team fight in the way that other builds with shorter CDs can. If you run this build, you need to be really good at making sure the burst works when coming in hot, otherwise you waste a lot of time in the match. This build can carry hard or be useless, depending on how good the Soulbeast is at making sure the burst lands. > > Brawly Soulbeast builds that do not run Sic Em at all have become popular, as well as Core Ranger variants of this. This is where the true flexibility is within Ranger/Soulbeast. You can run tons of variations of Ranger/Soulbeast utilizing Marauder, Demolisher, Paladin, Seeker, with various Runes & Trait setups that actually work. Other classes don't even come close to this type of flexibility. Even when we're talking something like a Holosmith, even trying to swap to Berserker from Demolisher, is enough to offset the sweet spot and make the build too vulnerable. Do not confuse these as Boonbeasts because these newer builds are running LB/GS, which is not at all what the old Boonbeast ran. These new builds are more damage oriented while optimizing what defenses they can, for the sake of being able to brawl, rather than hit & run like the Berserker variants, or win 1v1s on side nodes like a Boonbeast through out sustaining. These newer Soulbeast or Core Ranger builds are team fighters for the most part, though they can be effective in 1v1 if the player is good. They do however lack disengage for surviving 1v2s in the way that old Boonbeast builds could. I run divinity rune and demolisher still with smokescale and owl. I still use beastmastery and wilderness survival and I am doing just fine on my sic em ranger. I can do superhigh burst and have the mobility to get away from pretty much anything except maybe a decent thief. Sure, it's not as strong as it was pre-nerf but it's still very decent. Last season i got to mid p2 (EU) purely with this build and 90% soloQ. It just requires more skill now since you cant just pew pew your full burst cus of unblockables. oh and the brawly soulbeasts you speak of that dont use sic em, I have yet to encounter one... What you said about boonbeast being dead, i agree. and im glad it is cus its so kitten boring to play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted October 20, 2019 Author Share Posted October 20, 2019 > @"verskore.4312" said: > > oh and the brawly soulbeasts you speak of that dont use sic em, I have yet to encounter one... It might just be a NA thing going on. A lot of players are just flat swapping to Core Ranger due to this choice to ditch Sic Em. They just run Skirm/Wild/Beast. It's surprisingly large damage while running something like Paladin, due to the additional feroc off of Skirm/Beast, and quite sustainy vs. power damage. They can brawl well against Holo/Spellbreaker/Herald. Not so hot vs. Condi DrD & Condi Mirage though. Those two counter any brawly Soulbeast/Core Ranger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verskore.4312 Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > @"verskore.4312" said: > > > > oh and the brawly soulbeasts you speak of that dont use sic em, I have yet to encounter one... > > It might just be a NA thing going on. A lot of players are just flat swapping to Core Ranger due to this choice to ditch Sic Em. They just run Skirm/Wild/Beast. It's surprisingly large damage while running something like Paladin, due to the additional feroc off of Skirm/Beast, and quite sustainy vs. power damage. They can brawl well against Holo/Spellbreaker/Herald. Not so hot vs. Condi DrD & Condi Mirage though. Those two counter any brawly Soulbeast/Core Ranger. > > > > ye those core rangers are I see quite alot nowadays, it's just not viable on soulbeast :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megametzler.5729 Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 > @"verskore.4312" said: > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > @"verskore.4312" said: > > > > > > oh and the brawly soulbeasts you speak of that dont use sic em, I have yet to encounter one... > > > > It might just be a NA thing going on. A lot of players are just flat swapping to Core Ranger due to this choice to ditch Sic Em. They just run Skirm/Wild/Beast. It's surprisingly large damage while running something like Paladin, due to the additional feroc off of Skirm/Beast, and quite sustainy vs. power damage. They can brawl well against Holo/Spellbreaker/Herald. Not so hot vs. Condi DrD & Condi Mirage though. Those two counter any brawly Soulbeast/Core Ranger. > > > > > > > > > > ye those core rangers are I see quite alot nowadays, it's just not viable on soulbeast :) There are also several on EU. It is mostly carried by the gazelle pet though. I got hit by 15k by one the other day... I think the ranger wasn't even in LoS. I remember because I got a little angry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > @"verskore.4312" said: > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > @"verskore.4312" said: > > > > > > > > oh and the brawly soulbeasts you speak of that dont use sic em, I have yet to encounter one... > > > > > > It might just be a NA thing going on. A lot of players are just flat swapping to Core Ranger due to this choice to ditch Sic Em. They just run Skirm/Wild/Beast. It's surprisingly large damage while running something like Paladin, due to the additional feroc off of Skirm/Beast, and quite sustainy vs. power damage. They can brawl well against Holo/Spellbreaker/Herald. Not so hot vs. Condi DrD & Condi Mirage though. Those two counter any brawly Soulbeast/Core Ranger. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ye those core rangers are I see quite alot nowadays, it's just not viable on soulbeast :) > > There are also several on EU. It is mostly carried by the gazelle pet though. I got hit by 15k by one the other day... I think the ranger wasn't even in LoS. I remember because I got a little angry... Had one guy saying the same thing...swapped to **2 core pets**...killed him again......rangers can't win, people will cry regardless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megametzler.5729 Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > @"verskore.4312" said: > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > > @"verskore.4312" said: > > > > > > > > > > oh and the brawly soulbeasts you speak of that dont use sic em, I have yet to encounter one... > > > > > > > > It might just be a NA thing going on. A lot of players are just flat swapping to Core Ranger due to this choice to ditch Sic Em. They just run Skirm/Wild/Beast. It's surprisingly large damage while running something like Paladin, due to the additional feroc off of Skirm/Beast, and quite sustainy vs. power damage. They can brawl well against Holo/Spellbreaker/Herald. Not so hot vs. Condi DrD & Condi Mirage though. Those two counter any brawly Soulbeast/Core Ranger. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ye those core rangers are I see quite alot nowadays, it's just not viable on soulbeast :) > > > > There are also several on EU. It is mostly carried by the gazelle pet though. I got hit by 15k by one the other day... I think the ranger wasn't even in LoS. I remember because I got a little angry... > > Had one guy saying the same thing...swapped to **2 core pets**...killed him again......rangers can't win, people will cry regardless So you would be happy about a hard gazelle nerf? Then I'd be happy too. :smile: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > @"verskore.4312" said: > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > > > @"verskore.4312" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > oh and the brawly soulbeasts you speak of that dont use sic em, I have yet to encounter one... > > > > > > > > > > It might just be a NA thing going on. A lot of players are just flat swapping to Core Ranger due to this choice to ditch Sic Em. They just run Skirm/Wild/Beast. It's surprisingly large damage while running something like Paladin, due to the additional feroc off of Skirm/Beast, and quite sustainy vs. power damage. They can brawl well against Holo/Spellbreaker/Herald. Not so hot vs. Condi DrD & Condi Mirage though. Those two counter any brawly Soulbeast/Core Ranger. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ye those core rangers are I see quite alot nowadays, it's just not viable on soulbeast :) > > > > > > There are also several on EU. It is mostly carried by the gazelle pet though. I got hit by 15k by one the other day... I think the ranger wasn't even in LoS. I remember because I got a little angry... > > > > Had one guy saying the same thing...swapped to **2 core pets**...killed him again......rangers can't win, people will cry regardless > > So you would be happy about a hard gazelle nerf? Then I'd be happy too. :smile: Before that I'd like to see if you know what is causing the dmg, what pet skills? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doto.6357 Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > @"verskore.4312" said: > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > > > @"verskore.4312" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > oh and the brawly soulbeasts you speak of that dont use sic em, I have yet to encounter one... > > > > > > > > > > It might just be a NA thing going on. A lot of players are just flat swapping to Core Ranger due to this choice to ditch Sic Em. They just run Skirm/Wild/Beast. It's surprisingly large damage while running something like Paladin, due to the additional feroc off of Skirm/Beast, and quite sustainy vs. power damage. They can brawl well against Holo/Spellbreaker/Herald. Not so hot vs. Condi DrD & Condi Mirage though. Those two counter any brawly Soulbeast/Core Ranger. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ye those core rangers are I see quite alot nowadays, it's just not viable on soulbeast :) > > > > > > There are also several on EU. It is mostly carried by the gazelle pet though. I got hit by 15k by one the other day... I think the ranger wasn't even in LoS. I remember because I got a little angry... > > > > Had one guy saying the same thing...swapped to **2 core pets**...killed him again......rangers can't win, people will cry regardless > > So you would be happy about a hard gazelle nerf? Then I'd be happy too. :smile: No yea for sure the gazelle is the number one issue in pvp right now. There’s just waves and waves of core Rangers one shotting all the meta builds. The last AT had four teams of five core rangers taking turns one shotting each other with the insane damage potential. Nerf ASAP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megametzler.5729 Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > > @"verskore.4312" said: > > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > > > > @"verskore.4312" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > oh and the brawly soulbeasts you speak of that dont use sic em, I have yet to encounter one... > > > > > > > > > > > > It might just be a NA thing going on. A lot of players are just flat swapping to Core Ranger due to this choice to ditch Sic Em. They just run Skirm/Wild/Beast. It's surprisingly large damage while running something like Paladin, due to the additional feroc off of Skirm/Beast, and quite sustainy vs. power damage. They can brawl well against Holo/Spellbreaker/Herald. Not so hot vs. Condi DrD & Condi Mirage though. Those two counter any brawly Soulbeast/Core Ranger. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ye those core rangers are I see quite alot nowadays, it's just not viable on soulbeast :) > > > > > > > > There are also several on EU. It is mostly carried by the gazelle pet though. I got hit by 15k by one the other day... I think the ranger wasn't even in LoS. I remember because I got a little angry... > > > > > > Had one guy saying the same thing...swapped to **2 core pets**...killed him again......rangers can't win, people will cry regardless > > > > So you would be happy about a hard gazelle nerf? Then I'd be happy too. :smile: > > Before that I'd like to see if you know what is causing the dmg, what pet skills? I think it was Charge. The damage is dumb for a non-activated skill. > @"Doto.6357" said: > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > > @"verskore.4312" said: > > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > > > > @"verskore.4312" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > oh and the brawly soulbeasts you speak of that dont use sic em, I have yet to encounter one... > > > > > > > > > > > > It might just be a NA thing going on. A lot of players are just flat swapping to Core Ranger due to this choice to ditch Sic Em. They just run Skirm/Wild/Beast. It's surprisingly large damage while running something like Paladin, due to the additional feroc off of Skirm/Beast, and quite sustainy vs. power damage. They can brawl well against Holo/Spellbreaker/Herald. Not so hot vs. Condi DrD & Condi Mirage though. Those two counter any brawly Soulbeast/Core Ranger. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ye those core rangers are I see quite alot nowadays, it's just not viable on soulbeast :) > > > > > > > > There are also several on EU. It is mostly carried by the gazelle pet though. I got hit by 15k by one the other day... I think the ranger wasn't even in LoS. I remember because I got a little angry... > > > > > > Had one guy saying the same thing...swapped to **2 core pets**...killed him again......rangers can't win, people will cry regardless > > > > So you would be happy about a hard gazelle nerf? Then I'd be happy too. :smile: > > No yea for sure the gazelle is the number one issue in pvp right now. There’s just waves and waves of core Rangers one shotting all the meta builds. The last AT had four teams of five core rangers taking turns one shotting each other with the insane damage potential. Nerf ASAP Not sure where I said "core ranger is OP and dominates everything", but I just take this as the shocked reaction of a ranger main. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > > > @"verskore.4312" said: > > > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > > > > > @"verskore.4312" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > oh and the brawly soulbeasts you speak of that dont use sic em, I have yet to encounter one... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It might just be a NA thing going on. A lot of players are just flat swapping to Core Ranger due to this choice to ditch Sic Em. They just run Skirm/Wild/Beast. It's surprisingly large damage while running something like Paladin, due to the additional feroc off of Skirm/Beast, and quite sustainy vs. power damage. They can brawl well against Holo/Spellbreaker/Herald. Not so hot vs. Condi DrD & Condi Mirage though. Those two counter any brawly Soulbeast/Core Ranger. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ye those core rangers are I see quite alot nowadays, it's just not viable on soulbeast :) > > > > > > > > > > There are also several on EU. It is mostly carried by the gazelle pet though. I got hit by 15k by one the other day... I think the ranger wasn't even in LoS. I remember because I got a little angry... > > > > > > > > Had one guy saying the same thing...swapped to **2 core pets**...killed him again......rangers can't win, people will cry regardless > > > > > > So you would be happy about a hard gazelle nerf? Then I'd be happy too. :smile: > > > > Before that I'd like to see if you know what is causing the dmg, what pet skills? > > I think it was Charge. The damage is dumb for a non-activated skill. > > > @"Doto.6357" said: > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > > > @"verskore.4312" said: > > > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > > > > > @"verskore.4312" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > oh and the brawly soulbeasts you speak of that dont use sic em, I have yet to encounter one... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It might just be a NA thing going on. A lot of players are just flat swapping to Core Ranger due to this choice to ditch Sic Em. They just run Skirm/Wild/Beast. It's surprisingly large damage while running something like Paladin, due to the additional feroc off of Skirm/Beast, and quite sustainy vs. power damage. They can brawl well against Holo/Spellbreaker/Herald. Not so hot vs. Condi DrD & Condi Mirage though. Those two counter any brawly Soulbeast/Core Ranger. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ye those core rangers are I see quite alot nowadays, it's just not viable on soulbeast :) > > > > > > > > > > There are also several on EU. It is mostly carried by the gazelle pet though. I got hit by 15k by one the other day... I think the ranger wasn't even in LoS. I remember because I got a little angry... > > > > > > > > Had one guy saying the same thing...swapped to **2 core pets**...killed him again......rangers can't win, people will cry regardless > > > > > > So you would be happy about a hard gazelle nerf? Then I'd be happy too. :smile: > > > > No yea for sure the gazelle is the number one issue in pvp right now. There’s just waves and waves of core Rangers one shotting all the meta builds. The last AT had four teams of five core rangers taking turns one shotting each other with the insane damage potential. Nerf ASAP > > Not sure where I said "core ranger is OP and dominates everything", but I just take this as the shocked reaction of a ranger main. There would be no problem in nerfing the dmg of Charge by 50% or more, I'd say lower this potential dmg from 15k as they say to 2-3k but leave the KD as it is ofc, it's an activated skill and normally used at close range..being too easy to evade if used from distance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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