Nerfing condi thief..while leaving Shadow art Deadeye untouched.....

[Arheundel.6451]

The first has a plethora of counterspecs and counterplay option while the latter **basically has none** still Anet pushed in the wrong direction will nerf condi thief which I rarely see these days and will leave SA deadeye out of the picture while it's literally a plague in both PvP and WvW....As I stated in a previous thread, it's possible to counter condi spec on basically all classes unless heavily outplayed....but Anet still go and put nerfing precedence on condi thief while permastealth horror is a thing...just why?

[megilandil.7506]

why is simple, they never will accept and recognize the error what is stealth mechanic

[witcher.3197]

Yes that's why we're seeing deadeyes everywhere.. oh wait, we aren't.

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"witcher.3197" said:

> Yes that's why we're seeing deadeyes everywhere.. oh wait, we aren't.

 

Maybe you can tell us the counterplay for stealth camping rifle champ with shadow arts....'cause I know the counterplay to condi thieves, they can't kill much outside gold division I dare to think

[Alwayshappy.2549]

''Oh, I lost vs a stealth deadeye''. ''NERF IT TO THE GROUND''.

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"Alwayshappy.2549" said:

> ''Oh, I lost vs a stealth deadeye''. ''NERF IT TO THE GROUND''.

 

Must be thief main..you can contribute to the discussion ( or end it) by telling us the counterplay to the build in question and it's not simply deadeye...**it's shadow art deadeye**, go on then explain us

[Koen.1327]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"witcher.3197" said:

> > Yes that's why we're seeing deadeyes everywhere.. oh wait, we aren't.

>

> Maybe you can tell us the counterplay for stealth camping rifle champ with shadow arts....'cause I know the counterplay to condi thieves, they can't kill much outside gold division I dare to think

 

it's the other way around

there are no SA deadeyes above gold and condi thief got #1 on leaderboard last season, and pretty much every game has 1-2 condi thieves in plat rating

 

as for counterplay there are 2 big shots, DJ and backstab (if they are dp) - DJ has laser animation and sound = pop reflect, los or pressure. Avoiding backstab might be difficult if you are unaware of one but mostly not standing still does a lot, standing on ledges, etc. S/p got nasty stunlock but locks the thief in animation.

The usual holo, rev reveals do wonders too, what class do you play?

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"Koen.1327" said:

> > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > @"witcher.3197" said:

> > > Yes that's why we're seeing deadeyes everywhere.. oh wait, we aren't.

> >

> > Maybe you can tell us the counterplay for stealth camping rifle champ with shadow arts....'cause I know the counterplay to condi thieves, they can't kill much outside gold division I dare to think

>

> it's the other way around

> there are no SA deadeyes above gold and condi thief got #1 on leaderboard last season, and pretty much every game has 1-2 condi thieves in plat rating

>

> as for counterplay there are 2 big shots, DJ and backstab (if they are dp) - DJ has laser animation and sound = pop reflect, los or pressure. Avoiding backstab might be difficult if you are unaware of one but mostly not standing still does a lot, standing on ledges, etc. S/p got nasty stunlock but locks the thief in animation.

> The usual holo, rev reveals do wonders too, what class do you play?

 

Hard to believe they are condi thieves above gold...you mention "counterplay" skill with high CD compared to a rifle/d/p build which can gain stealth as easily as a simple dodge and remove removal with their elite...let me do the question..what class do you play that you lose to condi thief? 'cause it's hard to imagine atm

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"Koen.1327" said:

> > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > @"witcher.3197" said:

> > > Yes that's why we're seeing deadeyes everywhere.. oh wait, we aren't.

> >

> > Maybe you can tell us the counterplay for stealth camping rifle champ with shadow arts....'cause I know the counterplay to condi thieves, they can't kill much outside gold division I dare to think

>

> it's the other way around

> there are no SA deadeyes above gold and condi thief got #1 on leaderboard last season, and pretty much every game has 1-2 condi thieves in plat rating

>

> as for counterplay there are 2 big shots, DJ and backstab (if they are dp) - DJ has laser animation and sound = pop reflect, los or pressure. Avoiding backstab might be difficult if you are unaware of one but mostly not standing still does a lot, standing on ledges, etc. S/p got nasty stunlock but locks the thief in animation.

> The usual holo, rev reveals do wonders too, what class do you play?

 

With that said..why are you so invested if condi thief more of a problem? It shouldn't matter to you right?

[Axl.8924]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"Alwayshappy.2549" said:

> > ''Oh, I lost vs a stealth deadeye''. ''NERF IT TO THE GROUND''.

>

> Must be thief main..you can contribute to the discussion ( or end it) by telling us the counterplay to the build in question and it's not simply deadeye...**it's shadow art deadeye**, go on then explain us

 

You sound pretty salty what rank are you? just curious? how long you been pvping?

[SeikeNz.3526]

i always lol at the what rank are you "argument" its like saying that plat players play worse when is about the op class and the counter play better, but stealth is not op in any means but they should remove perma stealth

[Koen.1327]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"Koen.1327" said:

> > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > > @"witcher.3197" said:

> > > > Yes that's why we're seeing deadeyes everywhere.. oh wait, we aren't.

> > >

> > > Maybe you can tell us the counterplay for stealth camping rifle champ with shadow arts....'cause I know the counterplay to condi thieves, they can't kill much outside gold division I dare to think

> >

> > it's the other way around

> > there are no SA deadeyes above gold and condi thief got #1 on leaderboard last season, and pretty much every game has 1-2 condi thieves in plat rating

> >

> > as for counterplay there are 2 big shots, DJ and backstab (if they are dp) - DJ has laser animation and sound = pop reflect, los or pressure. Avoiding backstab might be difficult if you are unaware of one but mostly not standing still does a lot, standing on ledges, etc. S/p got nasty stunlock but locks the thief in animation.

> > The usual holo, rev reveals do wonders too, what class do you play?

>

> With that said..why are you so invested if condi thief more of a problem? It shouldn't matter to you right?

 

you brought condi thief up, i'm just stating the fact that plat is filled with condi thieves - the opposite of what you thought it being SA deadeyes. In addition to last season's #1 used condi thief - and last 3 mat winner teams also had a condi thief

SA deadeye = bad compared to the position thief in general currently has in the meta

[Psycoprophet.8107]

I honestly dont understand these threads and I joke but I'm really starting to think that this forum is a hot spot for people that rage from getting farmed by a better player than come onto the forum to ask for said class to be nerfed to the ground and it's getting tiring. Theres so few post that have constructive and legitimate discussions about actual think that are OP and not just annoying to fight. In yrs I've met 2 DE that were good and neither camped rifle. One was dual dagger and the other d/p and both were outa stealth as much as they were in and they were always in when they needed to be, weaving in and outa stealth. The rest are weak garbage. Sure we've all been +1 burst down by a rifle De perched on a ledge spamming his few keys just like a rangers rapid fire etc and yeah after it happens a few times it gets frustrating but if u focus the DE lol they are almost free bags.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

OP I only every see nerf this and nerf that posts when I see ur name lol do u post nerf this class whenever one farms u in game? Dont u even have one stating soulbeast is useless lol why did u have a bad match while running one?

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"Koen.1327" said:

> > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > @"Koen.1327" said:

> > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > > > @"witcher.3197" said:

> > > > > Yes that's why we're seeing deadeyes everywhere.. oh wait, we aren't.

> > > >

> > > > Maybe you can tell us the counterplay for stealth camping rifle champ with shadow arts....'cause I know the counterplay to condi thieves, they can't kill much outside gold division I dare to think

> > >

> > > it's the other way around

> > > there are no SA deadeyes above gold and condi thief got #1 on leaderboard last season, and pretty much every game has 1-2 condi thieves in plat rating

> > >

> > > as for counterplay there are 2 big shots, DJ and backstab (if they are dp) - DJ has laser animation and sound = pop reflect, los or pressure. Avoiding backstab might be difficult if you are unaware of one but mostly not standing still does a lot, standing on ledges, etc. S/p got nasty stunlock but locks the thief in animation.

> > > The usual holo, rev reveals do wonders too, what class do you play?

> >

> > With that said..why are you so invested if condi thief more of a problem? It shouldn't matter to you right?

>

> you brought condi thief up, i'm just stating the fact that plat is filled with condi thieves - the opposite of what you thought it being SA deadeyes. In addition to last season's #1 used condi thief - and last 3 mat winner teams also had a condi thief

> SA deadeye = bad compared to the position thief in general currently has in the meta

 

You're going in circle but I have asked you the counterplay and what you've listed is not really counterplay , you can't prevent the thief from re-stealthing and after you used stunbreaks etc etc..the thief will easily access stealth again

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> OP I only every see nerf this and nerf that posts when I see ur name lol do u post nerf this class whenever one farms u in game? Dont u even have one stating soulbeast is useless lol why did u have a bad match while running one?

 

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/91915/if-you-think-this-is-funny-to-you-is-not-for-most-of-us#latest

 

Nerf threads exist because OP stuff needs to be brought down, multiple nerf threads exist because those using OP specs tend to to oversaturate these threads with their belittling and mocking....all in a vain attempt to safekeep their builds

[Crab Fear.1624]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > OP I only every see nerf this and nerf that posts when I see ur name lol do u post nerf this class whenever one farms u in game? Dont u even have one stating soulbeast is useless lol why did u have a bad match while running one?

>

> https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/91915/if-you-think-this-is-funny-to-you-is-not-for-most-of-us#latest

>

> Nerf threads exist because OP stuff needs to be brought down, multiple nerf threads exist because those using OP specs tend to to oversaturate these threads with their belittling and mocking....all in a vain attempt to safekeep their builds

 

Like you do on any ele thread.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > OP I only every see nerf this and nerf that posts when I see ur name lol do u post nerf this class whenever one farms u in game? Dont u even have one stating soulbeast is useless lol why did u have a bad match while running one?

>

> https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/91915/if-you-think-this-is-funny-to-you-is-not-for-most-of-us#latest

>

> Nerf threads exist because OP stuff needs to be brought down, multiple nerf threads exist because those using OP specs tend to to oversaturate these threads with their belittling and mocking....all in a vain attempt to safekeep their builds

 

Yeah op threads will always exist but it's important to be able to distinguish skills that are effective and skills that are OP further more skills and mechanics that are annoying to fight and that are OP. There's a difference and a lot of players lump them all together.

[Alwayshappy.2549]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"Alwayshappy.2549" said:

> > ''Oh, I lost vs a stealth deadeye''. ''NERF IT TO THE GROUND''.

>

> Must be thief main..you can contribute to the discussion ( or end it) by telling us the counterplay to the build in question and it's not simply deadeye...**it's shadow art deadeye**, go on then explain us

 

Nop, I'm actually quite bad at playing a thief, I'm more interested in my weaver. It's just tiresome to open the pvp section; only to be welcomed by several ''NERF TO THE GROUND'' (not literally, but it's often the conclusion) threads. I'm sure that there are several builds out there...slightly stronger than some others (or just easier to play with). That said; skill matters. It's one thing to open a ''nerf thread'' because the build in question is in fact that much stronger than the rest, but the thing is....most people open threads like this just because they've lost against that specific build. Maybe being farmed by it.

 

 

[bluri.2653]

So now SA de is op? Lmao im dying

[Stand The Wall.6987]

its simply cuz a lot of ppl are playing condi

[ZDragon.3046]

This is why games dont design stealth with the idea of it being literally true stealth anymore. Its usually more like camouflage in most games where if the target is close enough and you look carefully you can still see a faint shimmer of them even more so if they are moving or are taking strike damage. Ideally its good enough to sneak around and close a gap but if some one makes a read and guesses where you are and happens to be close enough you can totally be seen to some extent which means you can be hit by "some" skills even if you cant be hit by skills that require a target. (which would make quite a difference depending on the profession trying to attack you.)

 

Ideally there needs to be 2 kinds of stealth in this game active camouflage that would be more common this would be what you get from easier sources like leaping or blasting a smoke field or rolling with a rifle in hand and which is more like what i just said above it not a true or perfect stealth.

And very very limited "true stealth" which only a few skills (hide in shadows, Shadow Meld, Mass invis, ((example skills)) provide and cant be extended for anything more than 10 seconds provided you or multiple people use multiple skills that provide the effect.

 

The only other real solution is to add a lot more reveal to skills across the game but that might be a even more unfair to the thief in general though.

 

I think builds that lack counter-paly or hold a significant power role for long extended periods of times through methods of evasion (even more so if its evasion while dealing damage) and im not just talking about thief... do need to be looked at I dont think the OP means that the stealth camper build is op its just hard/overly frustrating to fight a target thats basically not there and can take free shots at you at their own convenance which is a perfectly fine thing to start a conversation about.

Its fun for the thief but not for anything that is its target.

 

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"bluri.2653" said:

> So now SA de is op? Lmao im dying

 

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/90702/is-there-anything-to-do-with-the-permastealth-thief#latest...you repeat same comment whenever thief is mentioned..but not thief the problem, one thing is being outplayed..another is to face a stealth camping spec like **SA added to deadeye**

[rowdy.5107]

"wa wa wa I keep dying to a stealth thief. nerf it so things will be easier for MEEEEE"

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

Condi thief and SA Deadeye are surprisingly similar fundamentally; both have a select few builds and classes they are 'conditioned' (read: built) to curbstomp in a +1 or 1v1 scenario.

 

Having said that, and having extensively played deadeye over the past few days, I don't think they'll become a major meta contender as long as sagebrand, holosmith and spellbreaker stay relevant.

 

Why would I pick deadeye over hölösmith who Prime Light Beam you from stealth, and follow up with 3 more stuns/knockups? If the enemy has a revenant or a core thief, prepare for a hard time.