Anet, why make mounts so much more oppressive than gliders?

[witcher.3197]

I think it's pretty clear that nobody has asked for mounts in WvW, and this feature was added only for the sake of monetization. I'm not here to judge, company's gotta make profit afterall.. but I just don't understand what changed between gliders and mounts.

 

Let's compare the two.

 

**Gliders:**

1. Heavily restricted use, only for your own territory. May glide into enemy territory a bit, but can't open glider once closed and will eventually be forced out of it.

2. No second health bar.

3. No dodges or other skills, player is defenseless.

4. Can't stay in the air forever.

 

**Mounts:**

1. No real restrictions, free to be used anywhere. Can enter enemy territory, can mount up in enemy territory.

2. Not only a second health bar, **but the highest health of all the mounts!** ..why? Also CC immunity..

3. Half a skill bar dedicated to it, and has not one, not two, but three dodges, all of which also cause it to travel quite a big distance.

4. Players can mount for unlimited time.

 

While the team paid a lot of attention to make gliding blend into the current playstyle of WvW and only be a situational, almost niche thing, **mounts are the polar opposite of that.**

 

A feature that nobody asked for has redefined an entire gamemode of GW2 in a negative way. Warclaw drastically reduces PvP interactions in a PvP gamemode.. honestly it should be renamed to Cowardclaw. Roaming is almost dead as a result. I know there's a vocal minority on these forums that hate on roamers calling them gankers, but eversince Warclaw was added in my experience the ganking only got worse. I can't get a proper 1v1 that's over 20 seconds long without a bunch of people or even half a zerg engaging on me with their mounts because travel's so much quicker now.

 

Worst part is that it's by design.. Warclaw could be a hundred times weaker and would still be used, would still sell skins. I don't understand why it had to be made so strong.

 

**There are plenty of potential fixes that could be used for it:**

* Restrict them to home territory like you did with gliders.

* Remove the second health bar or reduce its health to one. Would still be used for the speedboost and skills. Remove either all 3 dodges or two of them, one dodge would still be enough to avoid getting dismounted by random NPCs even if the mount had one health.

* Remove CC immunity.

* Reduce movement speed to Swiftness level in enemy territory and keep it slightly above in home territory.

* Add a dismount trap maybe?

* Keep the second health bar, but make the player die if the mount dies.

* Add a CD and/or duration to limit its use and make it more of a tactical thing.

 

Monetization should not come before the health of the game. If you continue down this path you'll have no players to sell skins to.

[StrawHat.2639]

The simple fix mate is having the Warclaw only in EOTM and the Red Borderland (biggest map). My guild grp and guild friends always preferred havocking...but if you go to deep in enemy territory nowadays with 10 or fewer you can't run/fight away when the blob comes for you. Anyways we are a minority and thus after Warclaw we became a super casual wvw guild...I left for months...and now only log on for weekends (1-2 hrs)...not the 5-8hrs no stop raids.

 

FYI restricting mounts to home territory is a bad idea since if a server has a lot of your land your in for a very hard retake with the enemy on mounts and you not...think about your ebg side all enemy capped...they can troll you on mounts hard.

 

I know you've posted in the passed on this and other post but I doubt anything will be done...at this point either accept it or unfortunately more to other games (Ive mostly moved to witcher3, dark souls3, might try D3 soon)

 

Cheers mate and a lot still feel like you

Sanji

[Straegen.2938]

Mounts changed WvW true but while some things are worse, many things are better. Getting players into fights faster is a good thing for a competitive game mode.

 

I believe player knockdown skills should force a dismount. Aegis shouldn't work while mounted or at least make the dismount skill unblockable. Lastly sniff should mark stealthed players in the area. All fairly simple changes I suspect.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"StrawHat.2639" said:

> but if you go to deep in enemy territory nowadays with 10 or fewer you can't run/fight away when the blob comes for you. Anyways we are a minority and thus after Warclaw we became a super casual wvw guild...I left for months...and now only log on for weekends (1-2 hrs)...not the 5-8hrs no stop raids.

First, if you did 5-8h nonstop raids before thats pretty unhealthy behavior for any type of gaming. Just saying.

 

Secondly thats like *the* best way to get free kills on blobbers. Lure them out and a few follow, you can easily turn around and attack them. If they try to mount up and head to blob safety, dismount them and pull them back. Just avoid the path of main blob. The best moments are when they all try to hunt you, because you're just that annoying... and thats where stealth, the warclaw mobility and perseverance come in. I *wish* I could get as many as 10 people for that.

[Mbelch.9028]

This bad addition forced me to stop doing the one thing I loved in WvW — roaming. It's a boring festival of people running away, or being ganked by 5, because you can no longer escape groups of poeple. One of them will just hang back, get out of combat and warclaw to catch up/get ahead.

 

Coupled with the lack of PvP updates, I never log on anymore.

[StrawHat.2639]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"StrawHat.2639" said:

> > but if you go to deep in enemy territory nowadays with 10 or fewer you can't run/fight away when the blob comes for you. Anyways we are a minority and thus after Warclaw we became a super casual wvw guild...I left for months...and now only log on for weekends (1-2 hrs)...not the 5-8hrs no stop raids.

> First, if you did 5-8h nonstop raids before thats pretty unhealthy behavior for any type of gaming. Just saying.

>

> Secondly thats like *the* best way to get free kills on blobbers. Lure them out and a few follow, you can easily turn around and attack them. If they try to mount up and head to blob safety, dismount them and pull them back. Just avoid the path of main blob. The best moments are when they all try to hunt you, because you're just that annoying... and thats where stealth, the warclaw mobility and perseverance come in. I *wish* I could get as many as 10 people for that.

 

First, when your having fun with your guildmates/friends/server mates (with appropriate bathroom breaks) 5-8hrs isn't that long and the laughter and mental happiness...I know about the getting up every hr or so for blood circulation. I don't know why you so surprised many guild grps used to run long hours...

 

Second point maybe for you it works but it doesn't for us anymore, I'll even explain it if you so desire but havock grps = annoying ;P yes.

 

 

[Clownmug.8357]

> @"witcher.3197" said:

>...

> **Gliders:**

> 1. Heavily restricted use, only for your own territory. May glide into enemy territory a bit, but can't open glider once closed and will eventually be forced out of it.

> 2. No second health bar.

> 3. No dodges or other skills, player is defenseless.

> 4. Can't stay in the air forever.

> ...

 

Random nitpick: You can still dodge while gliding, there's just no animation.

[cyberzombie.7348]

> @"witcher.3197" said:

> **Gliders:**

> 1. Heavily restricted use, only for your own territory. May glide into enemy territory a bit, but can't open glider once closed and will eventually be forced out of it.

> 2. No second health bar.

> 3. No dodges or other skills, player is defenseless.

> 4. Can't stay in the air forever.

 

Just to add, on you can also be cc'd or ballista'd out of gliding which can result in death upon landing.

 

 

[Justine.6351]

This still?

Use your Lance...

"But but but warclaw dodges!"

Learn to bait, learn to count.

 

And btw, how is enemy warclaws in enemy territories even an issue when they move slower there. If you are on home turf you should be able to outrun them and if you are both in enemy territory you run the same.

[witcher.3197]

> @"Justine.6351" said:

> This still?

> Use your Lance...

 

I'll use my lance if you read my post before commenting.

[DemonSeed.3528]

The only time someone will get lanced is it they aren't ready for it (or if there are several players of course) - other than that with 3 dodges the chance of getting lanced is very very very low (except if inexperienced dodging it). I'm actually surprised people can get lanced, all you have to do is look behind you and jump before the lance connects, and you still have 2 dodges ready to go, whilst lance is still on its cd. The sad thing about lance is it only hits noobs primarily or people who've run out of dodges but not more experienced players, thus the conundrum of people complaining that they got ganked because of lance.

[Straegen.2938]

> Just to add, on you can also be cc'd or ballista'd out of gliding which can result in death upon landing.

 

Ballistas also dismount players with the Antiair Bolt.

 

[KrHome.1920]

> @"witcher.3197" said:

> I think it's pretty clear that nobody has asked for mounts in WvW

I did ask for them. They added more build diversity than any balance patch ever did.

 

Additionally they allow more strategic options for the smaller blob like quick repositioning for flanking or spiking single targets and stomp them fast.

 

The game became a lot more enjoyable with mounts for anyone who doesn't hide behind the bigger blob.

 

 

[crepuscular.9047]

what you are asking is like "no horses/chariots allowed during a war"> @"witcher.3197" said:> I think it's pretty clear that nobody has asked for mounts in WvW, and this feature was added only for the sake of monetization.not true, just one of many request threadshttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/9885/mounts-in-wvwthe key is implementation, just like gliders> **Mounts:**> 1. No real restrictions, free to be used anywhere. Can enter enemy territory, can mount up in enemy territory.Yes, in fact can be a disadvantage to be mounted in enemy territory, not only their mount speed is faster than yours that can case you down easilyenemies with movement modifiers can easily chase up to you without a mount, knock you off to the ground and GG within that second of being knocked down.> 2. Not only a second health bar, **but the highest health of all the mounts!** ..why? Also CC immunity..Like above, once you get knocked down you are pretty much a gonerthe hp of warclaw is like nothing for the amount of dmg people can dish out> 3. Half a skill bar dedicated to it, and has not one, not two, but three dodges, all of which also cause it to travel quite a big distance.I'm lost, what's "it"? yeah 3 dodges, allowing you to get away from unwanted fightsthe distance I find it to be too short in fact, i want it 2x further :lol: cos those 1 trick pony rangers and de can pew pew me down easily on foot even if i use the 3 dodges

> A feature that nobody asked for has redefined an entire gamemode of GW2 in a negative way. Warclaw drastically reduces PvP interactions in a PvP gamemode.. honestly it should be renamed to Cowardclaw. Roaming is almost dead as a result. I know there's a vocal minority on these forums that hate on roamers calling them gankers, but eversince Warclaw was added in my experience the ganking only got worse. I can't get a proper 1v1 that's over 20 seconds long without a bunch of people or even half a zerg engaging on me with their mounts because travel's so much quicker now.now i finally got down to this section, i can finally see why the complaintyou need to see the view of other side of the fence, plenty of people hates roamers because they hate their behaviours, especially campingthere was one time that i just need to cap a monument for daily, a roaming ranger saw me going down to monument, chases me for 2min and i wp back to spawn, head back to the monument and i see him again, did same thing for like 5 times, it's behaviour like this people hates roamers

[witcher.3197]

> @"crepuscular.9047" said:

> allowing you to get away from unwanted fights

 

Which is the problem. If you want a 100% winrate and make sure you only fight enemies you can beat with absolute certainty, go to PvE. Catering to people that don't want to PvP in a PvP gamemode is plain stupid.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> The only time someone will get lanced is it they aren't ready for it (or if there are several players of course) - other than that with 3 dodges the chance of getting lanced is very very very low (except if inexperienced dodging it). I'm actually surprised people can get lanced, all you have to do is look behind you and jump before the lance connects, and you still have 2 dodges ready to go, whilst lance is still on its cd. The sad thing about lance is it only hits noobs primarily or people who've run out of dodges but not more experienced players, thus the conundrum of people complaining that they got ganked because of lance.

I use the lance with around 80% success rate and many of the failures are against guards. If its friendly territory I do it as close as possible (sometimes melee range). If I fail I also sometimes get a second chance on foot.

 

Maybe you just cant use your lance properly.

 

[DemonSeed.3528]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> > The only time someone will get lanced is it they aren't ready for it (or if there are several players of course) - other than that with 3 dodges the chance of getting lanced is very very very low (except if inexperienced dodging it). I'm actually surprised people can get lanced, all you have to do is look behind you and jump before the lance connects, and you still have 2 dodges ready to go, whilst lance is still on its cd. The sad thing about lance is it only hits noobs primarily or people who've run out of dodges but not more experienced players, thus the conundrum of people complaining that they got ganked because of lance.

> I use the lance with around 80% success rate and many of the failures are against guards. If its friendly territory I do it as close as possible (sometimes melee range). If I fail I also sometimes get a second chance on foot.

>

> Maybe you just cant use your lance properly.

>

 

? I am more talking about my perspective about getting lanced - I do not get lanced often or at all. Not the other way around. I do not have a problem lancing others. I think you have misunderstood my post. Noobs get lanced easy. Those with aegis of course have an advantage of getting away above the 3 dodges. I always use my lance when it is least expected or when they run out of warclaw dodges to gain distance.

It's too easy for me to not get lanced without penalty if it's just 1 enemy. Basically lance is useless against people like me.

[cyberzombie.7348]

> @"Straegen.2938" said:

> > Just to add, on you can also be cc'd or ballista'd out of gliding which can result in death upon landing.

>

> Ballistas also dismount players with the Antiair Bolt.

>

 

Well I have a new way of trolling riders now : D

[crepuscular.9047]

> @"witcher.3197" said:

> > @"crepuscular.9047" said:

> > allowing you to get away from unwanted fights

>

> Which is the problem. If you want a 100% winrate and make sure you only fight enemies you can beat with absolute certainty, go to PvE. Catering to people that don't want to PvP in a PvP gamemode is plain stupid.

 

laughable assumption and unjustified reasoning, to those people that prefer large scale zerg fights, to them roamers are a pest that annoys them when trying to join the zerg for big fights

 

WvW is a sandbox, you have no right to tell people what to do, it's attitude like this is not helping bring in new play to WvW; neither will i tell you to stop roaming, all i'll put forward to you as a suggestion is, just live with it, if you find you no longer enjoy it? find other game mode or game that can bring enjoyment

 

if you love 1v1 fight there's the PvP arenas that caters for people want 1v1 without disruption, or if you want to do it in WvW maps, the ruins are the unofficial place to dual

 

[Blocki.4931]

Honestly it's because fall damage is a thing and gliders completely negate that.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

> @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> The only time someone will get lanced is it they aren't ready for it (or if there are several players of course) - other than that with 3 dodges the chance of getting lanced is very very very low (except if inexperienced dodging it). I'm actually surprised people can get lanced, all you have to do is look behind you and jump before the lance connects, and you still have 2 dodges ready to go, whilst lance is still on its cd. The sad thing about lance is it only hits noobs primarily or people who've run out of dodges but not more experienced players, thus the conundrum of people complaining that they got ganked because of lance.

 

I sometimes let myself get lanced if its 1 or 2 players so I can fight them...I mean....they clearly are desperate for a fight :p

[DemonSeed.3528]

Yeah if you're wanting a fight, that's a different story :)

[Sigmoid.7082]

> @"witcher.3197" said:

> > @"crepuscular.9047" said:

> > allowing you to get away from unwanted fights

>

> Which is the problem. If you want a 100% winrate and make sure you only fight enemies you can beat with absolute certainty, go to PvE. Catering to people that don't want to PvP in a PvP gamemode is plain stupid.

 

Don't the most common roaming builds have enough mobility to do exactly this anyways?

[Sovereign.1093]

allow mounts to be ccd. then no mount problems.