TheGrimm.5624 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 A number of threads overtime have covered changes to downstate and there have been a number of variations on them. Forums are a limited sampling of the player base but can be used as a directional pointer. Tried to cover a range of opinions from various threads over time but if I missed an option please specify (plus you can only have 10 polling options). Edit: this poll was for a change to WvW, not Pve or PvP per say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subversiontwo.7501 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Too much to pick from. Went with "no rally but downstate". In general, or historically, downstate has been fine and is an aspect of the core gameplay of this game. No downstate means no cooperatively saving friends. However, I don't like the fact that it is muddled by abilities and coefficients left right and center. The core aspect of pressing F on a friend to res them (coupled with the risk of giving cleaving opportunities) is good and has majorly been positive throughout the years. Whatever issues perceived have mostly stemmed from MI's, banners, mercys and the like. The basic F's more interactive and balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted January 10, 2020 Author Share Posted January 10, 2020 Agree there are a lot of options, but I think in general it's not a two sided option either, hence why I covered so many since there have been a lot of variation out there over time. I would generalize that the group that would like changes are more likely to also like the no downstate weeks, but I could be wrong there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash.9213 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 I'd almost chose no **rally, downstate, no revive** but **no rally with downstate** still having **revive** is fair in a game where performance hiccups can regularly rob you of an otherwise good play. I like what downstate adds to the game but I'd rather not have unique skills that aren't very comparable to each other and would rather have a slow downed crawl and would like to have pull skills work on friendly downed players at a more regulated but reasonable speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted January 10, 2020 Author Share Posted January 10, 2020 Personally I think my main complaint about the revive of the defeated is that it favors larger numbers and removes that important decision of the player to say, do I keep fighting or get an ally up since they will be out of the fight till they get back from spawn. With revive they can choose not to decide and if their side wins then they can get their ally up at no cost to their side. One thing that stops some people from attacking a larger force is knowing that their actions won't dwindle their numbers. With no revive of defeated if you can drop a target its at least out of the fight. And I say this coming from a havoc perspective where losing numbers would hurt even more but if you know your group can drop some you might be more willing to take a shot at it. But that could be me, have know players that will always attack and others that will never want to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Defeated should be able to be revived after a zerg vs. zerg clash. I want to point out that thus far it looks a lot like "No Rally" is more important to people than "No Downstate." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrHome.1920 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Downstate and reviving from downstate is a relict from a time when no dedicated healers in this game existed to be able to support your team members. The combination of healers and downstate is favoring the bigger group in a matchup to an inacceptable extent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted January 10, 2020 Author Share Posted January 10, 2020 > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > Defeated should be able to be revived after a zerg vs. zerg clash. > > I want to point out that thus far it looks a lot like "No Rally" is more important to people than "No Downstate." One of the reasons I was interested in a poll since I think the people that are in favor of no change mostly group everyone else into no downstate but I don't think it's that clear cut. But also curious on the numbers for no change as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 > @"TheGrimm.5624" said: > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > Defeated should be able to be revived after a zerg vs. zerg clash. > > > > I want to point out that thus far it looks a lot like "No Rally" is more important to people than "No Downstate." > > One of the reasons I was interested in a poll since I think the people that are in favor of no change mostly group everyone else into no downstate but I don't think it's that clear cut. But also curious on the numbers for no change as well. Well, IMHOFWIW, downstate should be removed. Doing so keeps large groups from roflstomping through smaller groups. The smaller group would have the chance to spike parts of the large group down and overcome them with skill where as right now the larger group is overwhelmingly favored because of how strong downstate itself is as a mechanic. I can see "No Rally" working, but only if there is "No Revive" as well. You'll need to bandage yourself up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hynax.9536 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 I would leave downstate as it is for PvE and rethink how it works in competitive modes like reworking downstate skills so that in competitive modes everyone have the same downed skills (cus yeah, some professions can be really anoying even downed). Also more rigid rules for how many times you can recover from downed : right now you can revive up to 3 times and only get insta defeated on the 4th down, maybe change this to only let players be revived once and get full downed penalty (for 1 min) so that if he goes down again, he is dead. I'm not against revive on defeated players cus it takes time even when you got the max amount of players reviving someone, it may look fast but in the middle of a zerg fight any second standing is enough to die. For Rally i would change it to heal a great amount of the downed health (~33% of the bar) instead of insta revive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneakytails.5629 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Downstate is trash, remove it, all of it. Too many fights are won by it when those players had no business pulling out a win. Players who dont dodge, use clears, use heals, etc. Lame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted January 10, 2020 Author Share Posted January 10, 2020 > @"Hynax.9536" said: > I would leave downstate as it is for PvE and rethink how it works in competitive modes like reworking downstate skills so that in competitive modes everyone can only have those actions (cus yeah, some professions can be really anoying even downed). > Also more rigid rules for how many times you can recover from downed : right now you can revive up to 3 times and only get insta defeated on the 4th down, maybe change this to only let players be revived once and get full downed penalty (for 1 min) so that if it goes down again, it is dead. > I'm not against revive on defeated players cus it takes time even when you got the max amount of players reviving someone, it may look fast but in the middle of a zerg fight any second standing is enough to die. > For Rally i would change it to heal a great amount of the downed health (~33% of the bar) instead of insta revive. That's a good point which I did not state and may need to edit. I was polling and picturing this just for WvW. Pve and PvP would not be impacted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash.9213 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > @"TheGrimm.5624" said: > > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > > Defeated should be able to be revived after a zerg vs. zerg clash. > > > > > > I want to point out that thus far it looks a lot like "No Rally" is more important to people than "No Downstate." > > > > One of the reasons I was interested in a poll since I think the people that are in favor of no change mostly group everyone else into no downstate but I don't think it's that clear cut. But also curious on the numbers for no change as well. > > Well, IMHOFWIW, downstate should be removed. Doing so keeps large groups from roflstomping through smaller groups. The smaller group would have the chance to spike parts of the large group down and overcome them with skill where as right now the larger group is overwhelmingly favored because of how strong downstate itself is as a mechanic. > > I can see "No Rally" working, but only if there is "No Revive" as well. You'll need to bandage yourself up. Downing someone and making that thing they have to deal with helps me dismantle larger groups and squads. Large groups stomp smaller groups who play like they're a large group and crash right into stuff, that's on them, not revive mechanic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 > @"kash.9213" said: > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > > @"TheGrimm.5624" said: > > > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > > > Defeated should be able to be revived after a zerg vs. zerg clash. > > > > > > > > I want to point out that thus far it looks a lot like "No Rally" is more important to people than "No Downstate." > > > > > > One of the reasons I was interested in a poll since I think the people that are in favor of no change mostly group everyone else into no downstate but I don't think it's that clear cut. But also curious on the numbers for no change as well. > > > > Well, IMHOFWIW, downstate should be removed. Doing so keeps large groups from roflstomping through smaller groups. The smaller group would have the chance to spike parts of the large group down and overcome them with skill where as right now the larger group is overwhelmingly favored because of how strong downstate itself is as a mechanic. > > > > I can see "No Rally" working, but only if there is "No Revive" as well. You'll need to bandage yourself up. > > Downing someone and making that thing they have to deal with helps me dismantle larger groups and squads. Large groups stomp smaller groups who play like they're a large group and crash right into stuff, that's on them, not revive mechanic. Ya people who want “no downstate” are usually scrubs who don’t know how to use downstate to their advantage.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 > @"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" said: > > @"kash.9213" said: > > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > > > @"TheGrimm.5624" said: > > > > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > > > > Defeated should be able to be revived after a zerg vs. zerg clash. > > > > > > > > > > I want to point out that thus far it looks a lot like "No Rally" is more important to people than "No Downstate." > > > > > > > > One of the reasons I was interested in a poll since I think the people that are in favor of no change mostly group everyone else into no downstate but I don't think it's that clear cut. But also curious on the numbers for no change as well. > > > > > > Well, IMHOFWIW, downstate should be removed. Doing so keeps large groups from roflstomping through smaller groups. The smaller group would have the chance to spike parts of the large group down and overcome them with skill where as right now the larger group is overwhelmingly favored because of how strong downstate itself is as a mechanic. > > > > > > I can see "No Rally" working, but only if there is "No Revive" as well. You'll need to bandage yourself up. > > > > Downing someone and making that thing they have to deal with helps me dismantle larger groups and squads. Large groups stomp smaller groups who play like they're a large group and crash right into stuff, that's on them, not revive mechanic. > > Ya people who want “no downstate” are usually scrubs who don’t know how to use downstate to their advantage.... Or they know how much of one It can be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Waaaaaaay too many options to be a "pointer" for anything. Also no downstaters on the forum have a tendancy to screetch the highest about the injustice of how they got stomped. That said, as I've said before - no rally is an *acceptable* compromise as the loss of that rather pushes for more focus on ressing and stomping. Adjusting the downed penalty would also be good as the 60s timer is way to short for a WvW slugfest and I personally still think they could remove one stage and start at 50% hp (ie insta-downed on the third down instead of 4th). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 > @"kash.9213" said: > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > > @"TheGrimm.5624" said: > > > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > > > Defeated should be able to be revived after a zerg vs. zerg clash. > > > > > > > > I want to point out that thus far it looks a lot like "No Rally" is more important to people than "No Downstate." > > > > > > One of the reasons I was interested in a poll since I think the people that are in favor of no change mostly group everyone else into no downstate but I don't think it's that clear cut. But also curious on the numbers for no change as well. > > > > Well, IMHOFWIW, downstate should be removed. Doing so keeps large groups from roflstomping through smaller groups. The smaller group would have the chance to spike parts of the large group down and overcome them with skill where as right now the larger group is overwhelmingly favored because of how strong downstate itself is as a mechanic. > > > > I can see "No Rally" working, but only if there is "No Revive" as well. You'll need to bandage yourself up. > > Downing someone and making that thing they have to deal with helps me dismantle larger groups and squads. Large groups stomp smaller groups who play like they're a large group and crash right into stuff, that's on them, not revive mechanic. Well you're DE'ing it out. Downing one guy and waiting for someone to start healing them so that you can pop a stealth attack on them makes sense for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash.9213 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > @"kash.9213" said: > > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > > > @"TheGrimm.5624" said: > > > > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > > > > Defeated should be able to be revived after a zerg vs. zerg clash. > > > > > > > > > > I want to point out that thus far it looks a lot like "No Rally" is more important to people than "No Downstate." > > > > > > > > One of the reasons I was interested in a poll since I think the people that are in favor of no change mostly group everyone else into no downstate but I don't think it's that clear cut. But also curious on the numbers for no change as well. > > > > > > Well, IMHOFWIW, downstate should be removed. Doing so keeps large groups from roflstomping through smaller groups. The smaller group would have the chance to spike parts of the large group down and overcome them with skill where as right now the larger group is overwhelmingly favored because of how strong downstate itself is as a mechanic. > > > > > > I can see "No Rally" working, but only if there is "No Revive" as well. You'll need to bandage yourself up. > > > > Downing someone and making that thing they have to deal with helps me dismantle larger groups and squads. Large groups stomp smaller groups who play like they're a large group and crash right into stuff, that's on them, not revive mechanic. > > Well you're DE'ing it out. Downing one guy and waiting for someone to start healing them so that you can pop a stealth attack on them makes sense for you. Pulls and interrupts are better there than stealth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 > @"kash.9213" said: > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > > @"kash.9213" said: > > > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > > > > @"TheGrimm.5624" said: > > > > > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > > > > > Defeated should be able to be revived after a zerg vs. zerg clash. > > > > > > > > > > > > I want to point out that thus far it looks a lot like "No Rally" is more important to people than "No Downstate." > > > > > > > > > > One of the reasons I was interested in a poll since I think the people that are in favor of no change mostly group everyone else into no downstate but I don't think it's that clear cut. But also curious on the numbers for no change as well. > > > > > > > > Well, IMHOFWIW, downstate should be removed. Doing so keeps large groups from roflstomping through smaller groups. The smaller group would have the chance to spike parts of the large group down and overcome them with skill where as right now the larger group is overwhelmingly favored because of how strong downstate itself is as a mechanic. > > > > > > > > I can see "No Rally" working, but only if there is "No Revive" as well. You'll need to bandage yourself up. > > > > > > Downing someone and making that thing they have to deal with helps me dismantle larger groups and squads. Large groups stomp smaller groups who play like they're a large group and crash right into stuff, that's on them, not revive mechanic. > > > > Well you're DE'ing it out. Downing one guy and waiting for someone to start healing them so that you can pop a stealth attack on them makes sense for you. > > Pulls and interrupts are better there than stealth. True, but a chance to insta down another is worth taking as well. But then this assumes that teammate would rez their partner though. I don't, I give them a chance to rally off a death instead, and if the opponent goes to stomp I nuke them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted January 10, 2020 Author Share Posted January 10, 2020 > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > Waaaaaaay too many options to be a "pointer" for anything. Also no downstaters on the forum have a tendancy to screetch the highest about the injustice of how they got stomped. > > That said, as I've said before - no rally is an *acceptable* compromise as the loss of that rather pushes for more focus on ressing and stomping. Adjusting the downed penalty would also be good as the 60s timer is way to short for a WvW slugfest and I personally still think they could remove one stage and start at 50% hp (ie insta-downed on the third down instead of 4th). Based on the spread so far I fear that fewer options would hide some nuinances, and we might do a later poll based on how this turns out. But it is a lot of choices, but even so I think I missed some mixes people have presented here on the sub-forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchonWing.9480 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Downstate is fine, and there are too many skills and abilities related to it. Rallying is kinda dumb though. If you both fight in a third party's tower, you can actually rally off a killed tower lord even if the other side kills it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted January 10, 2020 Author Share Posted January 10, 2020 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > @"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" said: > > Ya people who want “no downstate” are usually scrubs who don’t know how to use downstate to their advantage.... > > Or they know how much of one It can be There are distinct tactics that can be used with downstate, but is that wasted unless you win the fight? One side being able to fully repopulate itself at the spot of the fight was delayed but nothing more as they continue from that point forward. Now this is more a push for no revive of defeated mind you, which would work with or without downstate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justine.6351 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Lots of options leaves it too open to get any serious focused solution. Well I suppose 1 or 2 might pop forward idk. Despite all these options I didn't see the one I think would have been a legit conpromise, Nothing downed state mechanics changed wildly just some numbers adjusted, 7 sec? duration cap and then auto dead No more 3x hp boost 1 downed state per minute? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeolus.3615 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 I bet for a hybrid system from gw1 and gw2. Use skills to Rez downed ally, no more stack and rub to Rez either. Fully dead or stomped.. must port, maybe some class having 1 long cd hard Rez skill like rebirth. Rez signets could be back with the miracle system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben K.6238 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Personally, my main concern is downstate being used as a way to easily get HP back. For WvW specifically I'd like to see rallies gone, and the speed of reviving downed slowed (particularly for multiple revivers). Ideally, downstate should be something you only come back from if you stop taking damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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