Condition Damage has never been Meta in SPvP

[Leonidrex.5649]

To offer my thoughts on the matter.

He means meta, as in MOST would use condi, or that condi, was straight better version of power.

Having playable condition build doesnt mean its meta build.

Core warrior is playable but spellbreaker is meta, spb is better.

[Ragnar.4257]

Arguably it was meta first half of last year.

 

Everywhere was Scourges, Condi-Thieves and Condi-Mirages. They've all received the nerf-bat to a greater or lesser degree since then. But none-the-less, this disproves your assertion.

 

Which is all besides the point. Condition-damage doesn't "deserve" to have 50% of the "meta time". There is no reason why condi-damage "should" be meta. If it's not fun, then it shouldn't exist. It's the same reason why "zoo" builds (summon-Necro, spirit-Ranger, turret-Engi etc) should never be allowed to be meta. Because they're just anti-fun and anti-skill. Just because Zoo-builds have never been meta doesn't mean they "deserve" to be made meta now.

 

This is a game. The point of a game is to have fun. Not to achieve perfect equal representation of damage-types.

[rowdy.5107]

lol I don't think anybody gives 2 shits about meta these days. sorry.

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > @"Genesis.5169" said:

> > > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > Condizerker would like a word

> >

> > Was that better for power for warriors tho? Were talking HoT in spvp right? Also im saying condition as a META damage type not having some what viable condition builds.

>

> I remember there being a ton of condi berserkers after HoT to the point they had to be nerfed. Between mace/bow you would put out a stupid amount of condi damage.

 

It really was not the damage that caused the nerfs of berserker in general it was the sustain. Any of the rapid fire burst at the time converted over to what was a lot of sustain for the damage back then. It wouldn't be seen as a lot of sustain by todays standards of damage but back then adrenal healing + healing signet was stronk.

 

Its still good now but might makes right + all the additional sources of might generally works better. Mending also got buffed to being an actual skill type which slowly pushed healing signet out of being the standard while giving warriors a legit condi removal tool that was not dependent on landing a burst.

 

Maybe im wrong though i just cant remember the damage being the issue just the sustain they had which made them so safe while doing the damage.

 

 

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

> @"Genesis.5169" said:

> Seven years of guild wars 2 and its never been the meta damage type we are in and always have been in a power meta. There were 3 viable condition classes. Rogue, Mesmer. Necro, in within those classes they had 1 meta condition spec.

>

> This is just a PSA ima dispel this notion of condition is OP and bring it back.

> If you wanna say it is or was tell me when and if your account not old enough to have seen it ima call BS.

 

Whatever you say. Just because condis aren't top-kek abused meta, doesn't mean they ain't problematic... These people will never learn...

This screen was taken in WvW after HoT release... Currently condis are not as bursty (yea, sure...), but they're being applied far too often with far too many cover condies.

Condis were problematic, are problematic and will be problematic if they won't be shaved via duration/intensity/reapplication/max cap.

I'm playing since 2012, removal of condi cap was one of the greatest mistake in PvP and WvW. Condis should remain as supplementary thingie.

End of story.

 

[Curennos.9307]

Can we also dispel the whole 'condi builds can stack defensive stats and chill' thing, too? Cuz that's no longer a thing. Condi builds always have big chunks of power stats shoved onto their amulets. Give me my vit/tough/condi dmg amulet and I will show you true pain.

[Zexanima.7851]

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > @"Genesis.5169" said:

> > > > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > > Condizerker would like a word

> > >

> > > Was that better for power for warriors tho? Were talking HoT in spvp right? Also im saying condition as a META damage type not having some what viable condition builds.

> >

> > I remember there being a ton of condi berserkers after HoT to the point they had to be nerfed. Between mace/bow you would put out a stupid amount of condi damage.

>

> It really was not the damage that caused the nerfs of berserker in general it was the sustain. Any of the rapid fire burst at the time converted over to what was a lot of sustain for the damage back then. It wouldn't be seen as a lot of sustain by todays standards of damage but back then adrenal healing + healing signet was stronk.

>

> Its still good now but might makes right + all the additional sources of might generally works better. Mending also got buffed to being an actual skill type which slowly pushed healing signet out of being the standard while giving warriors a legit condi removal tool that was not dependent on landing a burst.

>

> Maybe im wrong though i just cant remember the damage being the issue just the sustain they had which made them so safe while doing the damage.

>

>

 

You might be right but between I remember skull grinder being able to put out quite the stacks. At the time it might have just felt like "a lot"

[otto.5684]

> @"Genesis.5169" said:

> Seven years of guild wars 2 and its never been the meta damage type we are in and always have been in a power meta. There were 3 viable condition classes. Rogue, Mesmer. Necro, in within those classes they had 1 meta condition spec.

>

> This is just a PSA ima dispel this notion of condition is OP and bring it back.

> If you wanna say it is or was tell me when and if your account not old enough to have seen it ima call BS.

 

To a large extent, meta is determined by potency not quantity. We have been in a power meta for a while, but first year of PoF was significantly dominated by scourge and mirage. My issue with lack of condi damage, is that melee condi builds are very rarely, if ever viable. Condi FB became more viable last few month, due to some buffs and nerfs to scourge. Weaver kinda in the same boat + it has become an evade bot.

 

Condi warrior, rev, ranger and engi did not have a meta build in years.

 

In any case, as we currently stand, we have condi mirage, condi FB and condi weaver. So it is like 3/11 or 12 builds. Not great presentation, but not absolutely terrible.

[AliamRationem.5172]

Condition damage seems fine to me. It's a little underrepresented in the current meta as far as I can tell, but eventually either the power builds driving the meta will get nerfed or the lack of condi builds will push everyone to run less condi cleanse until an opportunity for a condi build to fill the void presents itself.

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> Condition damage seems fine to me. It's a little underrepresented in the current meta as far as I can tell, but eventually either the power builds driving the meta will get nerfed or the lack of condi builds will push everyone to run less condi cleanse until an opportunity for a condi build to fill the void presents itself.

 

the problem is that ALOT of classes has built in sondi removal thats "free"

even if there is 5x power enemies most meta build will have fair ammout of condi cleanse anyways.

[Dantheman.3589]

> @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> Arguably it was meta first half of last year.

>

> Everywhere was Scourges, Condi-Thieves and Condi-Mirages. They've all received the nerf-bat to a greater or lesser degree since then. But none-the-less, this disproves your assertion.

>

> Which is all besides the point. Condition-damage doesn't "deserve" to have 50% of the "meta time". There is no reason why condi-damage "should" be meta. If it's not fun, then it shouldn't exist. It's the same reason why "zoo" builds (summon-Necro, spirit-Ranger, turret-Engi etc) should never be allowed to be meta. Because they're just anti-fun and anti-skill. Just because Zoo-builds have never been meta doesn't mean they "deserve" to be made meta now.

>

> This is a game. The point of a game is to have fun. Not to achieve perfect equal representation of damage-types.

 

Just no lol

[MrForz.1953]

Aaaah. Of course they're not meta. They're offset by popular builds turning them into confettis without much investment in team situations. The requested, reasonable nerfs to overall condition damage often take in account a nerf to the rate at which they can be cleansed by the stronger builds so that one may pressure with a simpler, readable amount of condition damage and variety against a target with limited cleanse... rather than tossing 20k dps worth of condis constantly and have the defender absorb it.

[Nacht.9451]

I take huge breaks of this game but I’ve never really seen condi being meta...I played when game first came out and made a build that could apply 25 bleed 25 might and then sit in stealth for 5-10 seconds watching people die on point. But back then you could literally backstab spam 2 burst someone much easier... don’t get me wrong it’s still good just not as viable or as good as power builds and that’s why it isn’t meta. I still play condi thief (and am starting to see more out there seemingly copying my play style which is awesome) condi thief never actually got nerfed imo just changed... utility poison nerf and sword pistol viability nerfed... however dual wield skills apply poison now so d/d 3 got buffed and overall does more dmg... the burst condi is still there. I’ve hit 3-4K poison ticks on 3 people fighting on point with 2-3k bleed. 1v1 potential isn’t terrible as long as you don’t spam 3 more than 2-3 times in a row.

 

Just have to have the right runes and utilities for it.

 

Edit: Rating is 1525-1625 so it’ll still get you up to top 50 if you know how to play it. But it is a different off meta build that lacks as much mobility as most other thief builds with only having shortbow5 it’s slower getting to points. IMO it’s better to be in team fights than decapping unless you wipe their team then obviously there’s the chance to decap but when your team loses mid and home it makes it difficult for this build to decap and get out of outnumbered fights with no stealth and again only shortbow5

[ArthurDent.9538]

Power damage has never been meta, only the various power damage builds that have been meta over the years have been meta. See how dumb this argument is?

[Nacht.9451]

> @"ArthurDent.9538" said:

> Power damage has never been meta, only the various power damage builds that have been meta over the years have been meta. See how dumb this argument is?

 

Pretty sure it’s just your statement that’s dumb... if the majority of meta builds are power that would make power meta... compared to condi... if you go class by class then sure some class metas might have been condi but that doesn’t change the fact that power as a whole has still been meta. Generally power has always been the most effective way to kill someone.

[Dantheman.3589]

> @"ArthurDent.9538" said:

> Power damage has never been meta, only the various power damage builds that have been meta over the years have been meta. See how dumb this argument is?

 

This is the truth, too. Just becuz one or multiple builds that were condi doesn’t mean the meta was condition based. When we ask is conditions meta in gw2 pvp- we mean it as a whole. It is actually incorrect to say o well condition Mesmer is meta therefore it’s a condition meta, even if the latter is true it would not necessarily mean condition is meta. Basically for condition to be meta it would almost entirely mean every single build or at least the meta ones on every single class would be condition for us to assume the meta, at least if we are using classes. A better approach than classes is the game as a whole- conditions would have to be basically entirely superior to power in every way than you could call it a condition meta and even if there was a condition meta, which I don’t believe ever existed in gw2, would the game really be worse off? Ppl would be used to dealing with conditions in a condition meta and I’m sure the average person would have just as much fun otherwise they wouldn’t play.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

> @"Genesis.5169" said:

> Seven years of guild wars 2 and its never been the meta damage type we are in and always have been in a power meta. There were 3 viable condition classes. Rogue, Mesmer. Necro, in within those classes they had 1 meta condition spec.

>

> This is just a PSA ima dispel this notion of condition is OP and bring it back.

> If you wanna say it is or was tell me when and if your account not old enough to have seen it ima call BS.

 

Let's start at the top of the list, beginning with current meta:

 

* **FIRE Weaver** <- That is happening right now and it is largely considered the dominant side node 1v1 presence

* Sagebrand

* Condi Mirage "Boy does this one have a history staying in the top 3 meta"

* Core Necro

* Condi Revs "Yeah, it's a lot stronger than people give it credit for"

 

Not so distant previous metas:

 

* SCOURGE SCOURGE SCOURGE

* Condi Mirage "Yup, this guy was always here"

* Condi Thief Condi Daredevil

* Condi Revs "Good players have always hovered just under the radar of meta on these builds. Shao is a good example."

 

Pre PoF, HoT metas:

 

* Various Burnserk variants that contested power serk's meta dominance just about every other patch

* Condi Revs/Herald - This was definitely a thing for awhile

* The original Impaling Lotus Condi Daredevil that opened the pandora's box of low risk/high reward build structures

* Super Condi based Chill into mass bleeds Reaper - Yes, Reaper back in HoT, was a big condi class in pvp

* Auramancer - Could call it a hybrid of power/condi, but it honestly leaned most of its damage into condi

 

Pre HoT, Core Metas:

 

* BURN GUARD - This got out of control after the 6/23/2015 patch that was released before HoT dropped, when burn was allowed to suddenly STACK. Burn Guardian experienced about a 12 month life span of being incredibly over powered. It was actually a lot worse in those days than what people complain about condi now. Loooong before power and sustain creep, when everyone only had two skills that cleared condi and each skill only cleared 2 condis on a 30s CD or something, Burn Guards were Judges Interventioning into your face with 20+ burn stacks and constant burn application to follow.

* Shortbow Condi Rangers - There was a very very very long era of Ranger play in core, where condi shortbow was the meta. It wasn't a trapper build either, it was a sustain core Ranger that held nodes that bounced around, survived, and killed you with condi attrition. It was the equivalent of fighting a Mirage on a node now but without all the teleport, pretty much.

* Condi Core Engi - Blame Chaith for this

* Pistol/Dagger Condi Core Thief - Yup, that was a thing for awhile, in both pvp and wvw

* Of course Core Necro in the early years. The best Necros were always Carrion based. Berserker Lich stuff emerged for a minute but it didn't last.

* DAGGER DAGGER CELE ELE - This is the original build that defined being Over Powered in Guild Wars 2. Such to the point, that it is the only build that was ever so much stronger than the other metas around it, that it was granted it's own category listing through metabattle, that sat above the "meta builds" of every other class. It was the only build that ever breached that category. It was largely condi attrition based.

* Cele Rifle Core Engi - There was a lot of condi in this actually.

 

 

"Condi hasn't been meta"

 

Yeah ok

[Crozame.4098]

Seven years of guild wars 2 and condi has never been the meta damage type:

Reaper, Scourge, Mesmer?

 

Can we please stop posting this kind of obviously logically flawed posts?

[Alin.2468]

> @"Genesis.5169" said:

> > @"Alin.2468" said:

> > > @"Genesis.5169" said:

> > > > @"Alin.2468" said:

> > > > > @"Genesis.5169" said:

> > > > > > @"Alin.2468" said:

> > > > > > Condition damage has been meta after release of HoT. I still remember the days of the old forum when people constantly complained about too much condi. Conditions were meta back then.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In my opinion conditions should never be meta. They should never be a focus of design either. Conditions were designed as bonus for team coordination with voice chat. Before HoT a player would call a field (like "fire field") and players would blast it for team might. This gave conditions and boons a role of bonus for team playing. When HoT came, it created the condi spamfest meta, everybody wanting and complaining about conditions at the same time, because only few professions could remove those properly. It created a whole new mechanic, and dangerous tactics: vitality + condi damage = chilling while enemy dies (as there was no condi cleanse).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Meta condi is bad, especially for a game modified for SoloQ only, because players voted this in 2016.

> > > > >

> > > > > This is a straight up lie power was still meta 5/8 classes ran power ignore this guy. And in Hot Launch all the mesmers were chrono power.

> > > > > Don't post here again man spreading misinformation.

> > > >

> > > > Please ignore me. Thank you for ignoring me. I take my answer back, sorry for bothering to answer on your precious thread.

> > >

> > > Thanks i hope you follow through and stop posting here.

> >

> > I shall stop posting here. Sadly, there is no ignore feature on forums, to make sure I will never ever post on your topics. So I apologize in advance if it will happen to bother your grace.

>

> I appreciate that if your not gonna give truthful answers your oldest post is july of 2018 as what i can see i have no idea how you would know anyways.

 

This means you are not old enough to know the past and what happened in the past. For example: before this forum, there was another forum sine release (until ~2018), and that forum was completely removed by Anet to implement this forum with better graphics and multiple profile pictures. Sure, they could have made the efforts to upgrade the old forum, but I don't want to justify myself or them with arguments about SEO and bad feedback advertising; so I will just leave it at this, as you will ignore me anyways.

[Jekkt.6045]

i see. so dhumfire necro, condi p/sh engi and spirit ranger wasn't a condi meta. yeah no, you should do a bit more research before you post stuff like that. that meta was so much condi that even condi engi got pushed out because it didn't have enough cleanse vs ranger and necro.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

OP this and ur other posts aren't buff condi mirage posts in disguise are they?

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"Genesis.5169" said:

> Seven years of guild wars 2 and its never been the meta damage type we are in and always have been in a power meta. There were 3 viable condition classes. Rogue, Mesmer. Necro, in within those classes they had 1 meta condition spec.

>

> This is just a PSA ima dispel this notion of condition is OP and bring it back.

> If you wanna say it is or was tell me when and if your account not old enough to have seen it ima call BS.

 

To be honest with you if boon spam was not a thing condi necro would not be viable.

It ramps way too slow without the safety that the other professions have. Boon corruption plays a massive part in its viability. The more boon dependent a profession (which is litterally almost every profession and elite in the game to some extent) the more viable it is. The moment it has to fight something with very few or no really important boons it can just be run over.

 

Also there was very long period where ele condi or hybrid was viable/meta before HoT, After Hot, and even Now post PoF

Condi ranger is also a thing but most people have not figured it out yet. Condi/soulbeast ranger is very strong right now but it does require a greater deal of effort to play than its power variants so we dont see people using it alot yet. The moment the dps on power soulbeast goes down epxect to see condi soulbeast spread like wild fire cause it actually does work.

[Genesis.5169]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> OP this and ur other posts aren't buff condi mirage posts in disguise are they?

 

This is a buff condition overall thread, and by that virtue my mesmer will get fixed because power boring to play and in every case its just better to roll a warrior or a thief if your power.

 

I want necros/mesmers to go back to what they were mid PoF after the Scourge nerf but before the condition nerf and confusion nerf.

[toxic.3648]

@"Genesis.5169"

wheres the bashing of trevor's post? ive seen u being straight up kitten to anyone else that have pointed out succesfull condi builds that have been meta.

was just wondering when u released the "trevor bashing arc" so i can make popcorn in advance

 

edit: for real tho, u are delusional if u think condi hasnt impacted every single 'meta' since pvp became a thing. also getting back to confusion b4 it was nerfed rly? i forgot how fun it was to have 15 stack confusion and torment on me at the same time. now thats interactive gameplay

[Burnfall.9573]

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > @"Genesis.5169" said:

> > Seven years of guild wars 2 and its never been the meta damage type we are in and always have been in a power meta. There were 3 viable condition classes. Rogue, Mesmer. Necro, in within those classes they had 1 meta condition spec.

> >

> > This is just a PSA ima dispel this notion of condition is OP and bring it back.

> > If you wanna say it is or was tell me when and if your account not old enough to have seen it ima call BS.

>

> Let's start at the top of the list, beginning with current meta:

>

> * **FIRE Weaver** <- That is happening right now and it is largely considered the dominant side node 1v1 presence

> * Sagebrand

> * Condi Mirage "Boy does this one have a history staying in the top 3 meta"

> * Core Necro

> * Condi Revs "Yeah, it's a lot stronger than people give it credit for"

>

> Not so distant previous metas:

>

> * SCOURGE SCOURGE SCOURGE

> * Condi Mirage "Yup, this guy was always here"

> * Condi Thief Condi Daredevil

> * Condi Revs "Good players have always hovered just under the radar of meta on these builds. Shao is a good example."

>

> Pre PoF, HoT metas:

>

> * Various Burnserk variants that contested power serk's meta dominance just about every other patch

> * Condi Revs/Herald - This was definitely a thing for awhile

> * The original Impaling Lotus Condi Daredevil that opened the pandora's box of low risk/high reward build structures

> * Super Condi based Chill into mass bleeds Reaper - Yes, Reaper back in HoT, was a big condi class in pvp

> * Auramancer - Could call it a hybrid of power/condi, but it honestly leaned most of its damage into condi

>

> Pre HoT, Core Metas:

>

> * BURN GUARD - This got out of control after the 6/23/2015 patch that was released before HoT dropped, when burn was allowed to suddenly STACK. Burn Guardian experienced about a 12 month life span of being incredibly over powered. It was actually a lot worse in those days than what people complain about condi now. Loooong before power and sustain creep, when everyone only had two skills that cleared condi and each skill only cleared 2 condis on a 30s CD or something, Burn Guards were Judges Interventioning into your face with 20+ burn stacks and constant burn application to follow.

> * Shortbow Condi Rangers - There was a very very very long era of Ranger play in core, where condi shortbow was the meta. It wasn't a trapper build either, it was a sustain core Ranger that held nodes that bounced around, survived, and killed you with condi attrition. It was the equivalent of fighting a Mirage on a node now but without all the teleport, pretty much.

> * Condi Core Engi - Blame Chaith for this

> * Pistol/Dagger Condi Core Thief - Yup, that was a thing for awhile, in both pvp and wvw

> * Of course Core Necro in the early years. The best Necros were always Carrion based. Berserker Lich stuff emerged for a minute but it didn't last.

> * DAGGER DAGGER CELE ELE - This is the original build that defined being Over Powered in Guild Wars 2. Such to the point, that it is the only build that was ever so much stronger than the other metas around it, that it was granted it's own category listing through metabattle, that sat above the "meta builds" of every other class. It was the only build that ever breached that category. It was largely condi attrition based.

> * Cele Rifle Core Engi - There was a lot of condi in this actually.

>

>

> "Condi hasn't been meta"

>

> Yeah ok

 

**+1**

 

spot on....

nothing more to say