Thief Initiative Regen Post-Patch

[shadowpass.4236]

> @"Shao.7236" said:

> I don't particularly see how Flanking Strike be viable for Spamming though which is the only offender here.. Everything else have seen an increase of Initiative too.

>

> As for Revenants, spamming would break the game.. For long Thieves had the possibility to do so and it hasn't really broke it did it?

>

> Besides I have noticed how Shadow Arts didn't get touched, but is the stealth really the problem or the damage that comes from being in stealth? If Stealth attacks are gonna remain as strong as they feel right now, I would probably add the feature of having the attacker be revealed as the skills are casted, nobody is gonna have the time to know what's it gonna be but they'll have the decision to evade or not, could bait sustain that way, only might have to slow down some, maybe.

 

Flanking Strike is fine in the current meta because cooldowns are low enough to actually punish the thief. If you nerf the cooldowns on everything else but leave initiative regen the same, all of a sudden thief has a huge advantage over every class because the pace of their gameplay didn't get slowed as well.

[Dave.6819]

Wow.. so now we know the #1 class that community hates. Patch isn't even out and you want to nerf it more. I wouldn't be concerned. Our dmg is further shaved off. Our cooldowns are longer. And ini on some important skills are increased. We'll still be only a +1 and decap class that has little to no chance at 1v1. Dun worry.

[Shao.7236]

It's relative when most skills got further increased cooldowns. I don't think it'll be that much of a problem.

 

Instant Reflexes is likely to not be used too which is one of the annoying parts. Roll for Initiative is also another big one.

[Curennos.9307]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > @"Shao.7236" said:

> > I don't particularly see how Flanking Strike be viable for Spamming though which is the only offender here.. Everything else have seen an increase of Initiative too.

> >

> > As for Revenants, spamming would break the game.. For long Thieves had the possibility to do so and it hasn't really broke it did it?

> >

> > Besides I have noticed how Shadow Arts didn't get touched, but is the stealth really the problem or the damage that comes from being in stealth? If Stealth attacks are gonna remain as strong as they feel right now, I would probably add the feature of having the attacker be revealed as the skills are casted, nobody is gonna have the time to know what's it gonna be but they'll have the decision to evade or not, could bait sustain that way, only might have to slow down some, maybe.

>

> Flanking Strike is fine in the current meta because cooldowns are low enough to actually punish the thief. If you nerf the cooldowns on everything else but leave initiative regen the same, all of a sudden thief has a huge advantage over every class because the pace of their gameplay didn't get slowed as well.

 

Why is your focus on decreasing thief's ini regen and not on flanking strike's cost, then? All(? Don't quote me on that, but I did go through 'em and it doesn't seem like anet missed much) of thief's other evades saw nerfs. PW cost increased, SB evade increased, utility defenses nerfed, etc.

 

You're really bringing out a sledgehammer here when a lil tap-tap is more appropriate if even needed. Flanking Strike now does even more negligible damage. The thief even loses access to the evade if they hit anything - and just repeatedly using the evade is gonna get the thief nowhere (except maybe a little bit to the right and forward).

[shadowpass.4236]

> @"Dave.6819" said:

> Wow.. so now we know the #1 class that community hates. Patch isn't even out and you want to nerf it more. I wouldn't be concerned. Our dmg is further shaved off. Our cooldowns are longer. And ini on some important skills are increased. We'll still be only a +1 and decap class that has little to no chance at 1v1. Dun worry.

 

Thieves do pretty well if the player behind them has the skill to take advantage of their kit. Judging by your previous thread, you seem to think thieves are in a bad spot lol.

 

So, now we know you're a pretty biased thief main.

 

Regardless, thieves got off pretty light in comparison to a lot of the other builds that are getting nerfed. You guys don't really have too many hard ccs so the majority of your kit will steal deal their full (reduced) damage values. Furthermore, by increasing the cooldowns on mobility and defensive skills on every other class, thief +1s become much more deadly and their escapes (both through stealth and teleports) become nearly impossible to prevent. This also leads into the fact that thieves can still use just as many skills as they could before the patch comes out on builds like s/d core. Shadow Arts also barely got touched, acro builds will still have permanent vigor, and infiltrator's strike's speed on the immob didn't get nerfed either.

 

Either way, you can't nerf cooldowns on every other class but leave initiative regen rates the same on thief. Increasing ini costs by 1 on a single skill on a handful of weaponsets isn't the same. Considering the fact that initiative regenerates every 1.67 seconds, cooldown increases of 6-10 seconds on other classes' skills would be roughly equivalent to 4-6 initiative cost increases on select thief attacks.

[shadowpass.4236]

> @"Curennos.9307" said:

> > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > @"Shao.7236" said:

> > > I don't particularly see how Flanking Strike be viable for Spamming though which is the only offender here.. Everything else have seen an increase of Initiative too.

> > >

> > > As for Revenants, spamming would break the game.. For long Thieves had the possibility to do so and it hasn't really broke it did it?

> > >

> > > Besides I have noticed how Shadow Arts didn't get touched, but is the stealth really the problem or the damage that comes from being in stealth? If Stealth attacks are gonna remain as strong as they feel right now, I would probably add the feature of having the attacker be revealed as the skills are casted, nobody is gonna have the time to know what's it gonna be but they'll have the decision to evade or not, could bait sustain that way, only might have to slow down some, maybe.

> >

> > Flanking Strike is fine in the current meta because cooldowns are low enough to actually punish the thief. If you nerf the cooldowns on everything else but leave initiative regen the same, all of a sudden thief has a huge advantage over every class because the pace of their gameplay didn't get slowed as well.

>

> Why is your focus on decreasing thief's ini regen and not on flanking strike's cost, then? All(? Don't quote me on that, but I did go through 'em and it doesn't seem like anet missed much) of thief's other evades saw nerfs. PW cost increased, SB evade increased, utility defenses nerfed, etc.

>

> You're really bringing out a sledgehammer here when a lil tap-tap is more appropriate if even needed. Flanking Strike now does even more negligible damage. The thief even loses access to the evade if they hit anything - and just repeatedly using the evade is gonna get the thief nowhere (except maybe a little bit to the right and forward).

 

Decreasing thieves' initiative regen from 1.67 seconds per tick to 2 seconds would be fine. That's a "lil tap-tap" of a nerf. Then, initiative costs can be left alone.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> Decreasing thieves' initiative regen from 1.67 seconds per tick to 2 seconds would be fine. That's a "lil tap-tap" of a nerf. Then, initiative costs can be left alone.

 

Imagine every thief weapon set needing to wait 2 seconds for one init pip.

[shadowpass.4236]

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > Decreasing thieves' initiative regen from 1.67 seconds per tick to 2 seconds would be fine. That's a "lil tap-tap" of a nerf. Then, initiative costs can be left alone.

>

> Imagine every thief weapon set needing to wait 2 seconds for one init pip.

 

Imagine every other class getting cooldown increases of 2-10 seconds and having half their weapon skills deal 50 damage while you guys get 1.67 second effective cooldown increases on like 5 skills.

 

Oh wait... you don't have to imagine :joy: That's literally what's happening.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > Decreasing thieves' initiative regen from 1.67 seconds per tick to 2 seconds would be fine. That's a "lil tap-tap" of a nerf. Then, initiative costs can be left alone.

> >

> > Imagine every thief weapon set needing to wait 2 seconds for one init pip.

>

> Imagine every other class getting cooldown increases of 2-10 seconds and having half their weapon skills deal 50 damage while you guys get 1.67 cooldown increases on like 4 skills.

>

> Oh wait... you don't have to imagine :joy: That's literally what's happening.

?

 

The fact that thieves don't have as much access to cc as the rest of the class lineup is no reason to go on a crusade to nerf them in arbitrary ways because you feel a nerf to shortbow evade, a nerf to pistol whip, a nerf to fortitude, a damage shave like everyone else got to all weapon sets, and a significant heal nerf like everyone else got (Not to mention the condition application and initiative nerfs we got) somehow isn't enough.

 

Thief's never played by the same rules cooldown wise as everyone else when it comes to initiative.

We also got cooldown increases on a hell of a lot, what are you talking about. Look at all the init increases we got for our evades. Every skill we have that wasnt already at 6 init for an evade, with the exception of staff 3, got more costly. Including shadow shot.

 

Can you not, lol.

 

[shadowpass.4236]

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > > Decreasing thieves' initiative regen from 1.67 seconds per tick to 2 seconds would be fine. That's a "lil tap-tap" of a nerf. Then, initiative costs can be left alone.

> > >

> > > Imagine every thief weapon set needing to wait 2 seconds for one init pip.

> >

> > Imagine every other class getting cooldown increases of 2-10 seconds and having half their weapon skills deal 50 damage while you guys get 1.67 cooldown increases on like 4 skills.

> >

> > Oh wait... you don't have to imagine :joy: That's literally what's happening.

> ?

>

> The fact that thieves don't have as much access to cc as the rest of the class lineup is no reason to go on a crusade to nerf them in arbitrary ways because you feel a nerf to shortbow evade, a nerf to pistol whip, a nerf to fortitude, a damage shave like everyone else got to all weapon sets, and a significant heal nerf like everyone else got (Not to mention the condition application and initiative nerfs we got) somehow isn't enough.

>

> Thief's never played by the same rules cooldown wise as everyone else when it comes to initiative.

> We also got cooldown increases on a hell of a lot, what are you talking about. Look at all the init increases we got for our evades. Every skill we have that wasnt already at 6 init for an evade, with the exception of staff 3, got more costly. Including shadow shot.

>

> Can you not, lol.

>

 

Thieves have plenty of cc.

 

Flanking Strike didn't receive any initiative cost increases. "Every skill" :joy:

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

> @"Cal Cohen.2358" said:

> # Thief

 

> Short Bow

> * Disabling Shot: Increased initiative cost from 4 to 5

 

>Sword

> * Pistol Whip: Reduced initial hit power coefficient from 0.37 to 0.01. Reduced stun duration from 0.75 seconds to 0.5 seconds. Reduced flurry hit power coefficients from 0.79 to 0.53. Increased initiative cost from 5 to 6.

 

> Dagger MH

> * Shadow Shot: Increased intiative cost from 4 to 5

> * Death Blossom: Increased initiative cost from 4 to 5

 

> Rifle

> * Death's Retreat: Increased initiative cost from 5 to 6

> * Death's Judgment: Reduced power coefficient from 1.65 to 1.11

 

> Heal

> * Skelk Venom: Reduced initial heal coefficient from 0.75 to 0.4. Reduced initial base heal from 4210 to 3578

> * Withdraw: Increased cooldown from 18 seconds to 25 seconds. Increased base heal from 4778 to 5243

> * Channeled Vigor: Increased cooldown from 20 seconds to 30 seconds

> * Malicious Restoration: Increased cooldown from 25 seconds to 30 seconds

 

> Acrobatics

> * Pain Response: Increased cooldown from 40 seconds to 60 seconds

> * Hard to Catch: Increased cooldown from 90 seconds to 300 seconds

> * Instant Reflexes: Increased cooldown from 90 seconds to 300 seconds

 

> Daredevil

> * Escapist's Fortitude: Reduced base heal from 456 to 150

 

You want a global init recharge increase on top of that, Shadowpass? You sure it's not just spite?

[shadowpass.4236]

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> You want a global init recharge increase on top of that, Shadowpass? You sure it's not just spite?

 

Maybe you should read a little better. I'm suggesting to increase the initiative recharge rate from 1.67 per tick to 2s and leave the current initiative costs the way they are.

 

It's not spite. You sure you're not just hard defending your main class even though the nerfs it's receiving are relatively _light_ in comparison to what the majority of the other classes are getting?

 

As I stated earlier:

- Thieves got off pretty light in comparison to a lot of the other builds that are getting nerfed. You guys don't really have too many hard ccs so the majority of your kit will steal deal their full (reduced) damage values. Furthermore, by increasing the cooldowns on mobility and defensive skills on every other class, thief +1s become much more deadly and their escapes (both through stealth and teleports) become nearly impossible to prevent. This also leads into the fact that thieves can still use just as many skills as they could before the patch comes out on builds like s/d core. Shadow Arts also barely got touched, acro builds will still have permanent vigor, assassin's signet and infiltrator's strike's speed on the immob didn't get nerfed either.

Either way, you can't nerf cooldowns on every other class but leave initiative regen rates the same on thief. Increasing ini costs by 1 on a single skill on a handful of weaponsets isn't the same. Considering the fact that initiative regenerates every 1.67 seconds, cooldown increases of 6-10 seconds on other classes' skills would be roughly equivalent to 4-6 initiative cost increases on select thief attacks.

 

**Here wait... let me make it even easier for you to understand. If 15 initiative takes 25 seconds to fully regenerate at the current rate of 1.67 seconds per tick - the same 15 initiative would take 30 seconds at a rate of 2 seconds per tick. That's like... pretty in-line to what most other classes are getting.**

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > You want a global init recharge increase on top of that, Shadowpass? You sure it's not just spite?

>

> Maybe you should read a little better. I'm suggesting to increase the initiative recharge rate from 1.67 per tick to 2s and leave the current initiative costs the way they are.

 

1.) You should be clearer on specifying that. You only mentioned it several posts down and I have room to question whether your OP originally intended to propose both at the same time. If you didnt intend for both of those changes to hit at once, you would have specified it out of the gate.

2.) Still no. I'd rather the changes be made to the skills themselves instead of ruining muscle memory globally. They probably can't even split that.

 

> It's not spite. You sure you're not just hard defending your main class even though the nerfs it's receiving are relatively _light_ in comparison to what the majority of the other classes are getting?

 

__I'm a warrior main but, whatever~__

 

> Flanking Strike didn't receive any initiative cost increases. "Every skill" :joy:

Do you want an init increase to Flanking strike? Go for it. You can't have global though.

 

 

 

[shadowpass.4236]

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > You want a global init recharge increase on top of that, Shadowpass? You sure it's not just spite?

> >

> > Maybe you should read a little better. I'm suggesting to increase the initiative recharge rate from 1.67 per tick to 2s and leave the current initiative costs the way they are.

>

> 1.) You should be clearer on specifying that.

> 2.) Still no. I'd rather the changes be made to the skills themselves instead of ruining muscle memory globally. They probably can't even split that.

>

> > It's not spite. You sure you're not just hard defending your main class even though the nerfs it's receiving are relatively _light_ in comparison to what the majority of the other classes are getting?

>

> __I'm actually a warrior main but, whatever~__

>

> > Flanking Strike didn't receive any initiative cost increases. "Every skill" :joy:

> Do you want an init increase to Flanking strike? Go for it.

>

>

>

 

Yeah I agree. I would rather change skills than mess up everyone's muscle memory. Unfortunately, Anet decided to take that route and now cooldowns are getting increased across the board but initiative remains the same. In other words, everyone else's pace of gameplay for weapon skills got slowed down significantly while thief is very, very _slightly_ slower on 5 attacks.

 

Again, I don't really have an issue with thief currently (the permastealth SA builds are annoying) but as someone that plays every class, and has read all of the changes for each class, I think thief is going to be pretty dominant once the patch comes out.

[Curennos.9307]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > @"Curennos.9307" said:

> > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > > @"Shao.7236" said:

> > > > I don't particularly see how Flanking Strike be viable for Spamming though which is the only offender here.. Everything else have seen an increase of Initiative too.

> > > >

> > > > As for Revenants, spamming would break the game.. For long Thieves had the possibility to do so and it hasn't really broke it did it?

> > > >

> > > > Besides I have noticed how Shadow Arts didn't get touched, but is the stealth really the problem or the damage that comes from being in stealth? If Stealth attacks are gonna remain as strong as they feel right now, I would probably add the feature of having the attacker be revealed as the skills are casted, nobody is gonna have the time to know what's it gonna be but they'll have the decision to evade or not, could bait sustain that way, only might have to slow down some, maybe.

> > >

> > > Flanking Strike is fine in the current meta because cooldowns are low enough to actually punish the thief. If you nerf the cooldowns on everything else but leave initiative regen the same, all of a sudden thief has a huge advantage over every class because the pace of their gameplay didn't get slowed as well.

> >

> > Why is your focus on decreasing thief's ini regen and not on flanking strike's cost, then? All(? Don't quote me on that, but I did go through 'em and it doesn't seem like anet missed much) of thief's other evades saw nerfs. PW cost increased, SB evade increased, utility defenses nerfed, etc.

> >

> > You're really bringing out a sledgehammer here when a lil tap-tap is more appropriate if even needed. Flanking Strike now does even more negligible damage. The thief even loses access to the evade if they hit anything - and just repeatedly using the evade is gonna get the thief nowhere (except maybe a little bit to the right and forward).

>

> Decreasing thieves' initiative regen from 1.67 seconds per tick to 2 seconds would be fine. That's a "lil tap-tap" of a nerf. Then, initiative costs can be left alone.

 

Fair 'nuff. I disagree with the method (ini impacting EVERY weapon skill while still forcing thief to deal with weapon swap has me pretty firmly on the side of messing with costs over ini regen) but can see where you're coming from here.

 

Regarding your previous post - I want to point out that thief, more than other classes, has WILDLY scaling defenses. They depend almost **entirely** on your opponent for their effectiveness - an evade is wasted if your opponent doesn't attack into it - it also doesn't go 'oop, that skill only hit for 4k, but before it hit for 8k, I'm going to negate the next 4k too'.. Stealth effectiveness (current issues with SA aside...).

 

Take Shadow Shot for example. They nerfed it - despite that it's a blind and blind depends ENTIRELY on what your opponent throws into it. This also applies to stealth, but that's far too much to type at almost 4am in the morning.

 

Still, I think it's important to note that thief's defenses don't quite have the same...scaling as other classes' defenses.

 

And I really wish anet had nerfed sword2's range in this patch :/ Ugh.

[Mereel.5876]

silver and bronze whining about thieves again.

Devs are bronze too.

only bronze can think that way

[shadowpass.4236]

> @"Mereel.5876" said:

> silver and bronze whining about thieves again.

> Devs are bronze too.

> only bronze can think that way

 


 

I solo qued 90% of my games last season.

 

Here's my [rank 2](https://i.imgur.com/Vy3GzS6.jpg) during a solo que only season.

[MyPuppy.8970]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > @"Mereel.5876" said:

> > silver and bronze whining about thieves again.

> > Devs are bronze too.

> > only bronze can think that way

>

> 

>

> I solo qued 90% of my games last season.

>

> Here's my [rank 2](https://i.imgur.com/Vy3GzS6.jpg) during a solo que only season.

 

You might want to clean your inventory a bit i think. That said, I am a bit concerned too, but it's not like we don't already have 2 thieves per team in every match already. If thieves end up overperforming (and i think they'll have globaly an easier time), further adjustments will be made. Personally I just wish chill affected thief's initiative regen in some way.

[Dave.6819]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > @"Dave.6819" said:

> > Wow.. so now we know the #1 class that community hates. Patch isn't even out and you want to nerf it more. I wouldn't be concerned. Our dmg is further shaved off. Our cooldowns are longer. And ini on some important skills are increased. We'll still be only a +1 and decap class that has little to no chance at 1v1. Dun worry.

>

> Thieves do pretty well if the player behind them has the skill to take advantage of their kit. Judging by your previous thread, you seem to think thieves are in a bad spot lol.

>

> So, now we know you're a pretty biased thief main.

>

> Regardless, thieves got off pretty light in comparison to a lot of the other builds that are getting nerfed. You guys don't really have too many hard ccs so the majority of your kit will steal deal their full (reduced) damage values. Furthermore, by increasing the cooldowns on mobility and defensive skills on every other class, thief +1s become much more deadly and their escapes (both through stealth and teleports) become nearly impossible to prevent. This also leads into the fact that thieves can still use just as many skills as they could before the patch comes out on builds like s/d core. Shadow Arts also barely got touched, acro builds will still have permanent vigor, and infiltrator's strike's speed on the immob didn't get nerfed either.

>

> Either way, you can't nerf cooldowns on every other class but leave initiative regen rates the same on thief. Increasing ini costs by 1 on a single skill on a handful of weaponsets isn't the same. Considering the fact that initiative regenerates every 1.67 seconds, cooldown increases of 6-10 seconds on other classes' skills would be roughly equivalent to 4-6 initiative cost increases on select thief attacks.

 

Just play it if you think it's so OP ok? Tired of listenin to such people. Just go and play the profession if you think it's so ridiculously strong. U'll see there's a big difference between theory and reality.

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"Dave.6819" said:

> > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > @"Dave.6819" said:

> > > Wow.. so now we know the #1 class that community hates. Patch isn't even out and you want to nerf it more. I wouldn't be concerned. Our dmg is further shaved off. Our cooldowns are longer. And ini on some important skills are increased. We'll still be only a +1 and decap class that has little to no chance at 1v1. Dun worry.

> >

> > Thieves do pretty well if the player behind them has the skill to take advantage of their kit. Judging by your previous thread, you seem to think thieves are in a bad spot lol.

> >

> > So, now we know you're a pretty biased thief main.

> >

> > Regardless, thieves got off pretty light in comparison to a lot of the other builds that are getting nerfed. You guys don't really have too many hard ccs so the majority of your kit will steal deal their full (reduced) damage values. Furthermore, by increasing the cooldowns on mobility and defensive skills on every other class, thief +1s become much more deadly and their escapes (both through stealth and teleports) become nearly impossible to prevent. This also leads into the fact that thieves can still use just as many skills as they could before the patch comes out on builds like s/d core. Shadow Arts also barely got touched, acro builds will still have permanent vigor, and infiltrator's strike's speed on the immob didn't get nerfed either.

> >

> > Either way, you can't nerf cooldowns on every other class but leave initiative regen rates the same on thief. Increasing ini costs by 1 on a single skill on a handful of weaponsets isn't the same. Considering the fact that initiative regenerates every 1.67 seconds, cooldown increases of 6-10 seconds on other classes' skills would be roughly equivalent to 4-6 initiative cost increases on select thief attacks.

>

> Just play it if you think it's so OP ok? Tired of listenin to such people. Just go and play the profession if you think it's so ridiculously strong. U'll see there's a big difference between theory and reality.

 

1500 mesmer games, 52% winrate.

100 thief games 62% winrate.

im so bad at thief I dont even recognise icons of my utilities, but I dont have to, just press anything and it works out anyways :D

[Mereel.5876]

They want to press rapid fire and wait. It's so op for them that someone can evade or disengage

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > I love these moronic posters, makes me feel less bad about my views on people lol.

> > Shadow u keep spewing about thief spam this thief spam that, u know alot of the impactful thief skill cost 5 or 6 ini out of a pool of 12 right? I'll assume ur at least that knowledgeable so if a thief soams(as u say) the same skill that uses 5-6 ini that literally means that the thief cant use ANY more skills from ANY of its weaponsets and will have to wait for ini regen to fill enough for whatever skills needed next. Yeah in a perfect scenario IF a thief uses trickery(some thieves dont) and has rfi equipped and uses rfi the thief can do a third skill immediately but that's a big if.

> > That's a fair trade off from being able to use 10 weapon skills, 5 in an any order from each weapon. Quit ur whinning.

>

> Flanking Strike didn't have it's initiative cost touched. It's a spammable evade that costs 4 initiative, not 5-6.

>

> What thief builds don't use trickery? lol

>

> Thanks for stating the obvious though. People clearly had no idea thieves can't use their weapon skills if they run out of initiative. /clap

 

First of all I said some skills are 4-5 not all and even 4 ini is spamable 3 times and that's all she wrote, u kno if u want to spam that same skill and be left unable to do nothing else untill ini recharged then go for it that's a good way to get downed fast,some good thief play right there lol.

Let this sink in as I knew ud prove my point for me lmao.

What build doesn't use trickery u say? All tho most do there is some that dont but why is trickery almost mandatory for viable builds? Yeah because most builds without preparedness is a handicap due to base ini vs skill costs :) and ur proposal is to compound that with longer ini recharge.

Yeah clap!

Oh wait this is another I hate thief let me propose a garbage idea that kills the class and its builds post. Quit wasting people's time.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"Dave.6819" said:

> > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > > @"Dave.6819" said:

> > > > Wow.. so now we know the #1 class that community hates. Patch isn't even out and you want to nerf it more. I wouldn't be concerned. Our dmg is further shaved off. Our cooldowns are longer. And ini on some important skills are increased. We'll still be only a +1 and decap class that has little to no chance at 1v1. Dun worry.

> > >

> > > Thieves do pretty well if the player behind them has the skill to take advantage of their kit. Judging by your previous thread, you seem to think thieves are in a bad spot lol.

> > >

> > > So, now we know you're a pretty biased thief main.

> > >

> > > Regardless, thieves got off pretty light in comparison to a lot of the other builds that are getting nerfed. You guys don't really have too many hard ccs so the majority of your kit will steal deal their full (reduced) damage values. Furthermore, by increasing the cooldowns on mobility and defensive skills on every other class, thief +1s become much more deadly and their escapes (both through stealth and teleports) become nearly impossible to prevent. This also leads into the fact that thieves can still use just as many skills as they could before the patch comes out on builds like s/d core. Shadow Arts also barely got touched, acro builds will still have permanent vigor, and infiltrator's strike's speed on the immob didn't get nerfed either.

> > >

> > > Either way, you can't nerf cooldowns on every other class but leave initiative regen rates the same on thief. Increasing ini costs by 1 on a single skill on a handful of weaponsets isn't the same. Considering the fact that initiative regenerates every 1.67 seconds, cooldown increases of 6-10 seconds on other classes' skills would be roughly equivalent to 4-6 initiative cost increases on select thief attacks.

> >

> > Just play it if you think it's so OP ok? Tired of listenin to such people. Just go and play the profession if you think it's so ridiculously strong. U'll see there's a big difference between theory and reality.

>

> 1500 mesmer games, 52% winrate.

> 100 thief games 62% winrate.

> im so bad at thief I dont even recognise icons of my utilities, but I dont have to, just press anything and it works out anyways :D

 

Yeah post some vids lmao I call completely bs as thief is one of if not harder classes to play well on. Why do these posters make such obvious blatant lie posts than expect anyone to take them serious. Every player that whines about thiefs being OP in some way goes on to say oh I dont even play thief but when I do I somehow wreck on it lmao than when legitimate poster say their actually trying to get into the class they end up posting in thief section about how much harder thief is to learn than their main or previous classes lol.

Plus this is rich from mirage player, so mesmers harder than thief now? lol

[Crab Fear.1624]

No.

 

This is a knee jerk post and bad idea.

 

Thief can use up to 3 skills in a row then everything is on cooldown, with the exception being heart seeker at this point.

 

 

Any other class minus maybe engine can cycle through 8 cooldowns.

 

Not every skill got a cooldown increase.

 

Just the really really strong and quite frankly, overpowered ones.

 

 

Thief has seen initiative cost increases over the years, while other classes have had reduction or at the very least stayed the same.

 

From my perspective, biased maybe, it would seem that this is just balancing.

 

Initiative rate is okay, and no skill should go past 6 ini.

 

We can not use our skills as quickly as any other class.

 

Initiative system is the slowest cooldown system, because we constantly put things into cooldown when we break that first 3 skills.

 

 

[Math.5123]

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> No.

>

> This is a knee jerk post and bad idea.

>

> Thief can use up to 3 skills in a row then everything is on cooldown, with the exception being heart seeker at this point.

>

>

> Any other class minus maybe engine can cycle through 8 cooldowns.

>

> Not every skill got a cooldown increase.

>

> Just the really really strong and quite frankly, overpowered ones.

>

>

> Thief has seen initiative cost increases over the years, while other classes have had reduction or at the very least stayed the same.

>

 

You mean like untraited guard hammer 2 which got a 150% CD increase? From 4 to 10. It's barely critting for 3k.