The Ace.9105 Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 Speed runes will become really good after the damage reduction patch and the surviving being more on the kiting part. Personally I think speed runes should get removed from pvp on the balance patch because it becomes really frustrating to play against classes that chase you with double the speed while the survivability is on kiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kratan.4619 Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 Maybe just new maps the size of a closet with no LOS features so no running away/hiding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 Unless we see a mass culling to super speed and swiftness on everyone else too and a reduction in blink and leap skills then sure remove it other wise leave it as is. Its a utility rune which can be countered by another person running it or any other kind of movement increase or stripping the swiftness. If you find it frustrating to have some one chasing your consider the following - they might not be using speed runes (most professions dont need speed runes to stick to you like glue they have traits that up their movement speeds or lots of leaps) - you need to strip the swiftness off them which removes the bonus entirely leaving them slow as mud. - run the rune yourself so that the perks cancel each other out if you suspect some one has speed rune. IF you also run it then your speed is = to their speed meaning they cant gain on you when you kite and if they still do it means something else is allowing them to stick to you. Lets not default blame speedrunes just because you cant kite something when there are several factors at play for why someone might stick to you. I know for a fact revs and weavers dont need speed runes to stick to you both have traits and skills which up speed Warriors dont really need it either (plethora of gap closers) Soulbeast dont exactly need it either (gap closers and great ranged pressure +pet chase) Holos likely dont need it but might use it. Thieves dont need it. (plenty of gap close options) About the only profession that needs speed rune to stick on you is Necro as they have almost no gap close and chill/cripple are not currently super effective at allowing natural gap close or kite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ace.9105 Posted February 3, 2020 Author Share Posted February 3, 2020 > @"kratan.4619" said: > Maybe just new maps the size of a closet with no LOS features so no running away/hiding. you know that's never gonna happen tho? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ace.9105 Posted February 3, 2020 Author Share Posted February 3, 2020 > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > Unless we see a mass culling to super speed and swiftness on everyone else too and a reduction in blink and leap skills then sure remove it other wise leave it as is. > Its a utility rune which can be countered by another person running it or any other kind of movement increase or stripping the swiftness. > > If you find it frustrating to have some one chasing your consider the following > - they might not be using speed runes (most professions dont need speed runes to stick to you like glue they have traits that up their movement speeds or lots of leaps) > - you need to strip the swiftness off them which removes the bonus entirely leaving them slow as mud. > - run the rune yourself so that the perks cancel each other out if you suspect some one has speed rune. IF you also run it then your speed is = to their speed meaning they cant gain on you when you kite and if they still do it means something else is allowing them to stick to you. > > Lets not default blame speedrunes just because you cant kite something when there are several factors at play for why someone might stick to you. > > I know for a fact revs and weavers dont need speed runes to stick to you both have traits and skills which up speed > Warriors dont really need it either (plethora of gap closers) > Soulbeast dont exactly need it either (gap closers and great ranged pressure +pet chase) > Holos likely dont need it but might use it. > Thieves dont need it. (plenty of gap close options) > About the only profession that needs speed rune to stick on you is Necro as they have almost no gap close and chill/cripple are not currently super effective at allowing natural gap close or kite That's why this is all about after the balance patch, not right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Kitsunee.4620 Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 No. This update is supposed to be a jumping off point for the devs. It's not supposed to be balanced, that comes later. Put it on the watch list for later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 > @"The Ace.9105" said: > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > Unless we see a mass culling to super speed and swiftness on everyone else too and a reduction in blink and leap skills then sure remove it other wise leave it as is. > > Its a utility rune which can be countered by another person running it or any other kind of movement increase or stripping the swiftness. > > > > If you find it frustrating to have some one chasing your consider the following > > - they might not be using speed runes (most professions dont need speed runes to stick to you like glue they have traits that up their movement speeds or lots of leaps) > > - you need to strip the swiftness off them which removes the bonus entirely leaving them slow as mud. > > - run the rune yourself so that the perks cancel each other out if you suspect some one has speed rune. IF you also run it then your speed is = to their speed meaning they cant gain on you when you kite and if they still do it means something else is allowing them to stick to you. > > > > Lets not default blame speedrunes just because you cant kite something when there are several factors at play for why someone might stick to you. > > > > I know for a fact revs and weavers dont need speed runes to stick to you both have traits and skills which up speed > > Warriors dont really need it either (plethora of gap closers) > > Soulbeast dont exactly need it either (gap closers and great ranged pressure +pet chase) > > Holos likely dont need it but might use it. > > Thieves dont need it. (plenty of gap close options) > > About the only profession that needs speed rune to stick on you is Necro as they have almost no gap close and chill/cripple are not currently super effective at allowing natural gap close or kite > > That's why this is all about after the balance patch, not right now. I know and considering what while damage is going to be lower mobility gains wont be meaning you if you have trouble kiting now you still will then against most professions. Ive read the notes and for he most part leaps, super speed, etc are not things being effected by the patch. In other words all the bit i said at the end is still going to be very much valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dahkeus.8243 Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 I'm not against runes giving something unique to fill in a gap that a build may have, but a lot of the damage/healing/CC changes won't matter that much without mobility being slowed down a bit as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 Nowadays, any time someone gets caught while running, they blame it on rune of speed. It's become a "Satan" of sorts, something that is easy to point a finger at, when in reality the rune of speed is rarely responsible for why a player is being caught. The truth is this: * Warrior doesn't need rune of speed. It moves around faster with gap closers and mobility skills anyway. Any good Spellbreaker takes runes for damage output. * No Guardian build needs rune of speed. FB needs support runes, Core Guard uses JI and needs damage output runes. DH loses way too much damage output and crit from rune of speed. * Herald could literally have it's ability to walk/run removed and still be able to chase everyone down with it's 3 ever cycling teleport skills. Then if the Herald is walking/running it has impossible odds increase. Herald does not need rune of speed. It would be wasteful to use the rune of speed. * The only Engi build that could benefit from rune of speed is core engi, which sucks, and no one uses it. Scrapper has ever cycling super speed, and Holosmith is much better optimized by running other runes that present damage output. In would actually be in your favor if Holo/Scrapper tried to go @ you with speed rune, because they'd be easier to 1v1 due to it. * Thief would never use rune of speed. I shouldn't have to explain why. * **Glass cannon Ranger/Soulbeast builds can benefit from rune of speed,** although this is not commonly used over other options that present damage output and sustain. * Core Mes Shatter now has ultra super speed with every manipulation and tons of stealth, it doesn't need rune of speed, it needs damage output. Mirage variants aren't much different. They just don't benefit much from rune of speed for what their job role is and what the stat lines require to be successful. * **Fire Weaver could benefit rune of speed but it loses a TON of damage output or sustain,** and what good is that when you're slow anyway? Even if it used rune of speed, it still won't be catching up to Warrrior, or Super Speed Scrapper or a Thief or Rangers with stealth an double movement disengage or Mesmers, so what's the point? Better players recognize this and chose to optimize the Fire Weaver's role as a side node duelist. * **Necromancers - This is the one class that actually benefits in every way from rune of speed. It needs it, and it deserves it.** Rune Of Speed is a Necromancer rune. When you get ran down by someone, 9 out of 10 times it is not a rune of speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hylo.1968 Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > * No Guardian build needs rune of speed. FB needs support runes, Core Guard uses JI and needs damage output runes. DH loses way too much damage output and crit from rune of speed. core guard/ DH uses Lynx/traveler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ace.9105 Posted February 3, 2020 Author Share Posted February 3, 2020 > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > Nowadays, any time someone gets caught while running, they blame it on rune of speed. It's become a "Satan" of sorts, something that is easy to point a finger at, when in reality the rune of speed is rarely responsible for why a player is being caught. > > The truth is this: > > * Warrior doesn't need rune of speed. It moves around faster with gap closers and mobility skills anyway. Any good Spellbreaker takes runes for damage output. > * No Guardian build needs rune of speed. FB needs support runes, Core Guard uses JI and needs damage output runes. DH loses way too much damage output and crit from rune of speed. > * Herald could literally have it's ability to walk/run removed and still be able to chase everyone down with it's 3 ever cycling teleport skills. Then if the Herald is walking/running it has impossible odds increase. Herald does not need rune of speed. It would be wasteful to use the rune of speed. > * The only Engi build that could benefit from rune of speed is core engi, which sucks, and no one uses it. Scrapper has ever cycling super speed, and Holosmith is much better optimized by running other runes that present damage output. In would actually be in your favor if Holo/Scrapper tried to go @ you with speed rune, because they'd be easier to 1v1 due to it. > * Thief would never use rune of speed. I shouldn't have to explain why. > * **Glass cannon Ranger/Soulbeast builds can benefit from rune of speed,** although this is not commonly used over other options that present damage output and sustain. > * Core Mes Shatter now has ultra super speed with every manipulation and tons of stealth, it doesn't need rune of speed, it needs damage output. Mirage variants aren't much different. They just don't benefit much from rune of speed for what their job role is and what the stat lines require to be successful. > * **Fire Weaver could benefit rune of speed but it loses a TON of damage output or sustain,** and what good is that when you're slow anyway? Even if it used rune of speed, it still won't be catching up to Warrrior, or Super Speed Scrapper or a Thief or Rangers with stealth an double movement disengage or Mesmers, so what's the point? Better players recognize this and chose to optimize the Fire Weaver's role as a side node duelist. > * **Necromancers - This is the one class that actually benefits in every way from rune of speed. It needs it, and it deserves it.** > > Rune Of Speed is a Necromancer rune. > > When you get ran down by someone, 9 out of 10 times it is not a rune of speed. I am not complaining about speed runes right now and I never stated that I have problems against speed runes as they are now. I am talking about how the game is after the patch. If there's a rune that lets you basically not die ever if you are actually good at the game and can kite I can ensure you that people don't care what the class "needs" and they will pick the rune for it's op effect. The answer to this is to take the speed runes on other classes as well but that causes the situation where everybody runs the 1 rune and it means that the rune is clearly too strong and needs to be removed or nerfed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantheman.3589 Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 Dan was here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flumek.9043 Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 As a necro, which is 100% forced into this rune to compete, id be happy if they removed it, but they need to nerf some short CD leaps and ports ASAP. Leaps ignoring chill and other in combat mobility is just too high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyPuppy.8970 Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 (6) When you use an elite skill, a bus takes you to far node then crash on it, downing everyone in the vicinity, including you. (60s) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 Nah. Let's face it, only necros are going to use this and their ability to mitigate cc got hit ((Foot in the Grave is retiring, and doom got hit)). I'm fine with a necro running all over the map if I know that if I catch him with a stun he needs to burn spectral X or eat all the damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 > @"Flumek.9043" said: > As a necro, > which is 100% forced into this rune to compete, > > id be happy if they removed it, but they need to nerf some short CD leaps and ports ASAP. > Leaps ignoring chill and other in combat mobility is just too high. > If they reverted the change to make chill and cripple effect leaps and gap closing skills i would be fine with the removal of speed runes until that happens though cant really agree personally. That change long ago was one of the worst changes made that hurt necromancer more than any other profession in the game. imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > Nah. > > Let's face it, only necros are going to use this and their ability to mitigate cc got hit ((Foot in the Grave is retiring, and doom got hit)). I'm fine with a necro running all over the map if I know that if I catch him with a stun he needs to burn spectral X or eat all the damage. you might change your mind when tank core necro becomes a thing, who knows. time will tell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrHome.1920 Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Speed rune is a quite well balanced rune. The utility it adds is extremely bad (1750 hp and that's it) besides the swiftness buff and swiftness can be removed from the target. For example compared to scholar rune you lose about 25% of damage (that's the damage mitigation difference between berserker and demolisher amulet!) for your build that has probably better options to disengage anyway. Even for necros, as the class that benefits the most from the rune, it is extremely situational and a well set up wurm is often the better option. I have a set of speed runes for wvw, but I never use it. Spectral walk and wurm are far better. In pvp on the tiny maps with tons of lod and jumping puzzle options the rune is even more useless most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 > @"KrHome.1920" said: > Speed rune is a quite well balanced rune. The utility it adds is extremely bad (1750 hp and that's it) besides the swiftness buff and swiftness can be removed from the target. > > For example compared to scholar rune you lose about 25% of damage (that's the damage mitigation difference between berserker and demolisher amulet!) for your build that has probably better options to disengage anyway. > > Even for necros, as the class that benefits the most from the rune, it is extremely situational and a well set up wurm is often the better option. > > I have a set of speed runes for wvw, but I never use it. Spectral walk and wurm are far better. In pvp on the tiny maps with tons of lod and jumping puzzle options the rune is even more useless most of the time. Scholars does not give 25% damage...that’s a complete vacuum calculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrHome.1920 Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 > @"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" said: > > @"KrHome.1920" said: > > Speed rune is a quite well balanced rune. The utility it adds is extremely bad (1750 hp and that's it) besides the swiftness buff and swiftness can be removed from the target. > > > > For example compared to scholar rune you lose about 25% of damage (that's the damage mitigation difference between berserker and demolisher amulet!) for your build that has probably better options to disengage anyway. > > > > Even for necros, as the class that benefits the most from the rune, it is extremely situational and a well set up wurm is often the better option. > > > > I have a set of speed runes for wvw, but I never use it. Spectral walk and wurm are far better. In pvp on the tiny maps with tons of lod and jumping puzzle options the rune is even more useless most of the time. > > Scholars does not give 25% damage...that’s a complete vacuum calculation. I said "about" and not flat. Currently the damage difference is 21,5% damage for your initial burst (you are above 90% health) on marauder and demolisher gear and 23,5% damage on paladin gear. Since all these amulets are nerfed after the patch, these values will change to 22,5% for marauder and demolisher and 23,75% for paladin. None of the two runes grants precision so you can ignore crit chance comparisions and you end up with 17,5%/18,75% damage difference below 90% health and 22,5%/23,75% above 90%. And damage multipliers will be quite important after the patch dropped because you won't kill anything otherwise. So if you don't plan to hit like a wet noodle that just can run pretty fast, then the utility of speed rune will be nerfed and not buffed for most builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 This would further nerf necros unecessarily I want more conclusive stuff so i vote... NO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodzynald.5897 Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 > @"kratan.4619" said: > Maybe just new maps the size of a closet with no LOS features so no running away/hiding. Spotted ranger main. Jokes aside, these are needed more than ever with how much chase'n'kill some classes are nowadays. I would rather fix the so called "no port spots" which can be accessed with ground targeted teleports but not target teleports. Moreover, mobility as a whole should be toned down. The rinse'n'repeat gameplay is tiresome to say the least. I am sure I am not the only one who does not appreciate when the only option to kill a given class is to hope for a slip on the opponent's side (or sheer incompetence/lack of skill), instead of outplaying them. Then, as a means of balance, mobility-based classes should be given some sort of durability boost so that they don't melt once they are out of mobility skills to jump in and out of a fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.1624 Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Class design and balance are offset by a rune that boost you in combat to superspeed levels. Faster out of combat by 4% than regular swiftness. With the way things are being balanced, this rune needs to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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